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Old 24th October 2009, 05:00 AM   #76
mmh
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber,

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, but this is the first opportunity I've had to get on the computer today.

I'm no Bible scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but with my sister having gone through a divorce and remarrying, I have studied some on the subject. Plus, my husband was married before, so I looked to the Bible for answers before I married him. This is what I feel the Bible states about marriage and divorce. If a Christian is married to a non-Christian, he/she is not to leave their spouse because they are not a Christian. They are to witness to their spouse and pray that the Holy Spirit convicts them and they accept the Lord. However, if the Christian does choose to leave- for adultery, abuse, etc.- God does not hold that person accountable for the marriage. Does that make sense? I will try to find that scripture in the Bible because I can't remember it off the top of my head.

Like you, I am great at fixing other people's problems- just not my own. I have to agree that your husband sounds like a bully. Working at a residential treatment facility with teenage boys who have emotional and/or behavior problems, I deal with bullies all day long. I also deal with their victims. I have to agree with the AG regarding how you can handle this situation. It seems that he only wants a response from you and continues bullying as long as he gets that response. If you act like you don't care what he says, he will probably stop doing it. However, be careful. I don't know if he's physically abusive, but I'd hate to suggest you do this and then he become enraged.

Having married a man with children and having 2 nieces whose parents are divorced, I understand your concerns about your daughter. However, my husband, whose parents are also divorced, has stated many times that he was glad when they split up. He was 14 and said that the fighting was worse than the divorce. If the only reason you're staying is because of her, don't. She's so young that if you get out of this, she won't remember y'all fighting and his treatment of you. If you stay, you need to think about what she's going to have to witness and do you want her to grow up, thinking that this is normal, only to wind up in the same type of marriage?

Like AG said, you are the victim of abuse. As you know, there are so many kinds of abuse- he doesn't have to hit you to abuse you. Divorce is hard on everyone. But, you've got to decide if this is the kind of life you want to have or if you want to cut your losses and move on. You deserve so much better.

Meg

P.S. Do you live in the U.S. or the UK?
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Old 24th October 2009, 05:14 AM   #77
mmh
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

AG,

Thanks for your support and encouragement. My husband is certainly passive aggressive and I believe that it stems from his past. His mother spent his childhood complaining of various illnesses. He was the one to take care of her. When he was about 11, he realized that there was nothing really wrong with her and she was doing this to get attention. Needless to say, he lacks compassion and sympathy for others. (I have severe back problems and have to admit that he does have compassion for me. But, I think it's because he knows that I'm not faking in order to get his sympathy). His mother yelled as his father ALL THE TIME! She threatened to divorce him for several years before they finally split. His father would tune her out and just ignore her. This is how my husband responds when we fight. I've learned not to yell at him if I want him to listen to me. Otherwise, he just shuts out what I'm saying.

His ex-wife became pregnant when they were in high school. His mother had a fit, stating that she hoped the baby died. This caused severe tension between his mother and his then wife and they never got along. His ex-wife tried to keep him from his mother and would make it difficult for the two of them. (His mother later apologized for the statement, but his wife couldn't forgive her). He had never had sex with anyone else, and he loved her. But, he said that shortly into their marriage, she changed. I'm not just saying this because she's his ex, but she is extremely manipulative and selfish. She would humiliate him in front of others, always putting him down. She left him for another man, and my husband tried to get her back. She laughed at him. She once called him to ask him which lingerie looked best on her because her new boyfriend was coming over. After he and I began dating, she wanted him back and would bring the new boyfriend over to his apartment while I was there. After 12 years after their divorce, I believe she regrets leaving him. I (and their youngest daughter) believe that she still loves him. However, she is still emotionally abusive to him and talks horrible about him to their daughters. She's rude, money hungry, and mean.

So, enter me. I hate confrontation and am NOT assertive. (I liked your comment about me needing to go to assertiveness classes. I agree). I have put up with so many things during the time we've been together, but have stayed because I love him. I never wanted us to split up for any other reason (i.e. his ex, his children, etc.) than we had problems. But now, we have problems. I've always known that he was passive aggressive because I have become irate at how he deals (or refuses to deal) with his ex-wife. But, I never thought that there would be this wall between us that he doesn't feel or acknowledge. We went out tonight and had a great time. However, tomorrow he will go hunting and we'll go right back to the way we've been.

Thanks again. Any further advice is greatly needed and would be greatly appreciated.

Meg (MMH)
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Old 25th October 2009, 10:31 AM   #78
Raymond
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber with regard to the porn your husband is showing all the classic symptons. I don't understand how he can read Dobson and still do porn. It is a mental adultery. His mind will be filled with the women he watches on it. When he is having sex with you they are there in his head. (you don't switch them off that easily, this stuff is addictive) It sounds like he is playing out the porn using you. His mind will be on them however. Porn figures in 50% of divorces in the States in some way or other.

This stuff destroys intimacy slowly and surely. Marriage and intimacy is between husband and wife only. Porn can be a diversion of the sexual drive taking away from the true God given intimacy in the bedroom. Until he comes off this and gets the victory the bedroom will not blossom as it should. There is nothing wrong with his sex drive. It has just been contaminated with the porn. I thought that any christian knew this.

It is good that he is reading Dobson. I am sure he writes about this in some of his books. All our sexual needs (including visual) should only be met by our wives and vice versa. That is part of the sanctity of marriage.

I've written quite a lot on this if you trail through the old threads.

Raymond
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Old 25th October 2009, 11:23 PM   #79
mmh
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber,

I'm gonna give you my email address. Email me when you can. There's a couple of things I'd like to talk about, but not on a post. If you're not comfortable with that, then just let me know. Maybe we can figure some things out on what both of us are going to do.

Meg

Last edited by mmh; 27th October 2009 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 26th October 2009, 02:39 AM   #80
Ageing Grace
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber, your last post was heartbreaking. Yes, I do know the feelings you're describing and the thought of you living your whole life like this horrifies me.

This not normal, nor acceptable.

Please take care to shore yourself up - emotionally, physically and financially. It's important.

Sending you love,
AG
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Old 27th October 2009, 11:03 AM   #81
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Hi Amber and Meg

I know you've read some of my threads Amber but I really do appreciate what you're both going through as I've gone through it also and only just coming out the other end.

AG has given you advice to do new things, take up new hobbies, visit old friends etc. She also gave me the same advice and it slowly started to work for me. I accepted every invitation I was given, looked up old friends, made myself very busy and I become a happier person in my own right. At work people I wasn't so friendly with, I made the effort to try to get to know them better. I've made some new friends through old friends. Basically my confidence and self esteem soared so that when H put me down I felt more able to deal with it and found it didn't upset me as much as it once did.

Also, AG said to not give a response when H puts you down. H put me down all the time and eventually I learned to put him in his place calmly and without raising my voice or ignoring him altogether. Amber next time H phones you and isn't very nice, I would calmly tell him that unless he can speak to you properly then not to bother ringing again because you won't answer. I hate being told what to do and it really used to get on my nerves when H told me to do this and that and what I was doing wrong all the time.

Eventually I told him that I'd moved on and he didn't like it at all, that was the big turn around for us and the next day he was more affectionate and caring. Before I had threatened to leave, that I wasn't happy any more but the fact that I'd moved on and he could see that I was happy really unnerved him I think.

Things can change I promise you if you both want it and work at it. I could never imagine even kissing my H but yet here we are now having a good sex life again.

Good luck to you both. I'm thinking of you.
Yoga
x
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Old 30th October 2009, 04:07 AM   #82
Ageing Grace
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber, your letter is thoughtful, well argued, balanced and clear.

I don't think you should send it.

As a tool for your own thought processes, it has a lot of value.

As an attempt to influence your husband, it's unlikely to achieve anything. It's accusatory and offers no alternative way forward. I'm sorry I'll have to keep this much shorter than you deserve - it's 3am here - but I wanted to reply quickly to you.

Please take another look at Yogamad's post above. It's about taking charge of your own life.

More later

AG x
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Old 30th October 2009, 02:30 PM   #83
Raymond
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Funny I have the opposite instinct. Here is a man who doesn't appear to listen and here is a desperate wife who needs to lay it on the line.

I think you do need to send it. The very fact that you have to write it should speak to any husband that there is something desperately wrong.

I think it will make or break the marriage according to his response. If my wife sent me a letter like that I would be devastated but I would surely go through every line again and again until I had it in my soul. If he wants to mend it this is his chance.

You sound a good woman Amber and need to say these things. My wife would never hold back if there were these kinds of issues. Obviously this has been building for a long time because he is not listening. I think he needs this shock and he needs the truth. My heart sang when I read the letter. At last the issues are being aired. It might just do the trick but the porn has to go. By the way every man wants a wife with a high SD. Take away the porn and he may well have a high SD.

Your love language seems to be touch and you need the hugs and the holding hands just like my wife. I had to learn this coming from an orphan background. Now it is natural to me and I will often hug someone without thinking about it, especially my wife.

The problems in your marriage are not insurmountable but it will take his full co-operation. Control is another issue mentioned also on Confuseds thread.

Must stop here. My instinct is to send it but you have to weigh it up and decide obviously. You may need to look over it again to address AG points but I think overall it needs to be sent.

Raymond

PS show him the DVD "Fireproof"
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Old 30th October 2009, 10:05 PM   #84
Jazz204
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber, life is not meant to be as yours is. Life is for enjoying, laughing, loving. I am all for marriage, all for raising kids within a marriage but when you are with someone such as your spouse, it becomes impossible. You and your children are ENTITLED to respect and feeling safe. Dont get bogged down by all the 'things', stick to the one thing. Your and your children being entitled to a good happy life and take positive steps towards that, knowing you are in the right. Look at life as being in small chunks, always with the idea of creating a good life. Dont feel guilty about all the domestication and controlling ways of society, its your life, it will be over soon enough, you dont need to waste it on a bullying nasty screwed up man who is wrecking your childrens futures. Its all very well to say stay, work at it and all that stuff, but in your case I think being separate would be best for all of you. Sometimes this is the case. Further down the track, who knows but at this moment, there are so many issues confronting you, its best for you to remove yourself and your children from the contamination.
Jazz
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:44 PM   #85
Ageing Grace
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Oh dear, Amber, I really should not have replied as I did. I'm very glad your letter has stimulated further thoughts on your part, and superb replies from Raymond and Jazz.

For goodness sake, don't delete it! Your soul's in that letter. Even if you don't send it, you may want to read it later.

The big question I wanted to ask, after I read it the first time, is: What does she want? Your letter reads like "Goodbye" but you say "I'm not leaving you". I understand your need to be heard - and, if that is your sole purpose in writing to him, then I'd say so at the beginning and end of your letter.

You don't need to say you're not leaving, IMO: it sounds like you know he'll think that - well, anybody would after reading that letter! But, essentially, it sounds like "I know what you're thinking and you're wrong." Pointless. (In my opinion.)

I don't know whether you want to change your marriage (or give it another shot, at least) or to quit it. After reading your letter, I'm none the wiser.

I write stuff for a living. The one question you must never fail to answer in your writing is: "What's my overall message?" You've said a warehouse full of stuff - and said it very well - but ... what is your overall message? It may be better to state it.

Amber, my personal opinion is that you WOULD be better off out of this marriage. Your husband's behaviour is despicable. You've done plenty to try & change it, yet here you are again; still. Life is short. Your daughter's growing up with your marriage as a model - you & I both know what that kind of model does to a person's relationship potential!

Jellybean wrote, in another thread, she feels she "wasted" 8 years trying to save her marriage - as she remarks, she has the moral advantage but passed 8 years of her childrens' lives, which could have been so much more positive.

However. Marriages have their own quirks; nobody ever knows precisely how a relationship feels to the people in it. I felt Yoga would be better off out of hers - but the truth is, a spouse can be better off all by herself, within or without her marriage.

You do not need your husband's permission, nor even his approval, to become a braver, better, happier & more fulfilled Amber. Moreover, if you just get on with living YOUR life the way YOU believe is best ... he will change. I suggested that Yoga think of it as a game (it is a game; you know that, you're a psychologist!) If one player changes the rules / their mode / their role ... the game must change. That's guaranteed; what is less certain is the way in which it will change.

I think you have a lot of work to do on Amber and I congratulate you on recognising this - I had to have 2 breakdowns before I started listening to my self! Whether you choose to continue your Amber work inside or outside your marriage is up to you. I think it's time you took another small step forward in your work. Make some choices without reference to him, not even to anticipate how he'll react. His reactions are his choice; your actions are yours.

I'm verging on rant mode! Sorry.

Vis-a-vis your letter: Please could you try it without the last paragraph? Please could you try stating [a] what you want him to take from it, and [b] what result you require from it?

I hope this made at least a bit of sense

AG xxx

Last edited by Ageing Grace; 30th October 2009 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 31st October 2009, 01:26 PM   #86
Raymond
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

I think AG is right. Removing the last paragraph about not leaving would be good. It takes away from the desperation in the letter which he needs to know.

I see the letter as a desperate attempt to save the marriage. If it is not that and you just want to go why bother to send it?

I think you have a lot of good stuff in there. Reading between the lines there is only one message. He needs to listen to his suffering wife and take note of a few things, step up and be a husband. It is a cry for help rather that a husband bashing excercise.

I think it is inspired Amber and needs to be sent to him. No letter is going to be perfect but the gist of it is obvious. True things will never be the same again but things need to move on. If that doesn't hit him what else will? I say hit him in a nice way in the sense that he needs to be hit with it. The letter says it loud and clear and is the truth. I pray that God speak to him through it.

Raymond
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Old 31st October 2009, 02:40 PM   #87
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Hi Amber

After reading your posts, I can relate to where you are coming from having been there.

My Ex was very difficult to talk to and I always felt any issues I had were up to me to deal with as he didn't want to know.

To be honest I got to the point where I didn't know what I wanted, but I wasn't happy with the way things were.

I would write a letter to your husband, as that way you can say what you want to and not get into an argument and forget what it is you wanted to tell him.

However I would tell him what it is you want from your marriage and if he is not prepared to give you that, then you will have to consider whether to stay or leave him. On the issue of him hitting your daughter in anger I would forgive him this once and this once only this way you can move on and not let your anger fester it will eat into your relationship. Having said this I would make it very clear to him that if he ever lays a finger on you or you children again in anger you will not give him a second chance.

What I'm trying to say here is write you letter telling him what you want and what you will not put up with in your marriage, without saying you never, you did etc instead say, this is what I would like and this is what I will not put up with. I would also tell him you still love him if you do.

You are in a difficult position, but whatever happens you will get through it. If your marriage isn't working and you are really unhappy and your husband and you for that matter aren't prepared to put in 110% then staying together for the sake of the children, will only lead to greater hurt and sorry. By all means give things a time frame say of 1yr to change.
Keep posting here, there's some good people with great advice and support.

Take care amber
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Old 31st October 2009, 02:52 PM   #88
jellybean28
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

One more thing to borrow this sentence from Grace

You do not need your husband's permission, nor even his approval, to become a braver, better, happier & more fulfilled Amber. Moreover, if you just get on with living YOUR life the way YOU believe is best ... he will change. I suggested that Yoga think of it as a game (it is a game; you know that, you're a psychologist!) If one player changes the rules / their mode / their role ... the game must change. That's guaranteed; what is less certain is the way in which it will change.

My husband was a control freak and I did the above almost destroyed me. Now I do not seek approval or permsssion from anyone but myself to live my life. I have spent most of my life seeking approval from other people first my mother then my Husband. Funny things is now I have changed I finally am getting the love and respect from my mother I have yearned for.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 11:30 AM   #89
jellybean28
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Amber after reading your last post I would be inclined to leave your husband. He seems to be very controlling, and if your not careful he will end up stripping you of your self esteem.

Is there someone you can talk to help you see what your options are?
Living together on the same block seems like a bad idea to me.
For you own sake Amber take care of yourself so can take care of your children, if your family are supportive turn to them for support.

Also with the family day care, I'm sure you would be able to start one up else where, with all the two/single parent working familes there are.

Take care my friend oh and don't worry about long posts, sometimes mine get long once I start stuff just keeps pouring out.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 02:26 PM   #90
Raymond
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

From the letter you wrote Amber I originally thought you wrote it to try and sort the marriage and was hopeful it could be saved. There are a lot of things wrong as you say. Quite a number of issues in fact.

To concentrate on one. Hitting one of the children out of anger towards you. That is quite terrible but has he not said he was sorry or anything?

Your husband does seem very selfish but has a few good points as well, as you have admitted. I think the sex thing is all because of the porn. As I said before I have seen the same pattern on here many times. That is quite a big one in my book.

You seem to have decided already to leave and you have to do what you think is right. It is sad. Personally I would have liked to see how he would have responded to the letter, but once you decide to end it it becomes irrelevant in a way.

Raymond
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