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Old 3rd September 2011, 02:48 AM   #61
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

A discussion point had nothing to do with the merits of a magazine, Playboy or another. That disrupts the question I asked Sasha which was how she discovered her husband has "a problem with porn" as she posted. I wonder what constitutes the porn she mentioned.

I personally see no heavy objectional material in Playboy magazine. There could be some who buy the mag have problems before they read this soft stuff. There can be films out there with raunch material as well. Each makes decisions about what is choice for them. A man or woman might read this issue occasionally. Some who posed for the issues went on into theatre and film roles. We do not live in the dark ages. Well, some of us do not!

Classical schools of painting glorify the beauty of the human body and a cultured world will continue to appreciate and honor that. Whenever a few think they set the standards or social mores for the majority there is a problem. Thats' my take on it.
Can we get back to the original discussion which wasn't about who tolerates what and why.

Forever, you are correct on the points which concerns art. The mag is seen as soft porn. Strictly a matter of personal choice to read or not. It wasn't the subject of my post as chosen cares to make it. Typically a distraction of the original intent of my inquiry.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 11:06 AM   #62
Raymond
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Re: Married and lonely

I can't think that Sasha's husband is just looking at some magazines as bad as that would be. I would bet that it is computer porn. Could also be dvd.

Yes we should be able to look at the female form in all it's beauty but alas we are fallen creatures and can lust, hence our lives, I speak as a man, need to be ordered. PB was certainly a kind of cultured porn of it's day but porn nevertheless. Don't tell me it was for art's sake as that is an excuse that many use in these days to peddle porn. "This is not porn it is art or erotica". Yes but it has the same effect. Yes there is a place for art but even that will arouse certain of us depending on how it is done and therefore we need to know ourselves.

The tragedy of it is that porn usage eats away at the marriage and seriously affects the normal sexual drive a man should have for his wife through the diversion of the drive. Hence it is a kind of mental adultery and a robber of the intimacy a husband and wife should enjoy between themselves. Jesus knew about this when he talked of looking at another woman in a certain way.

Last edited by Raymond; 3rd September 2011 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 05:21 PM   #63
chosen
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Re: Married and lonely

The pictures in these mags (and there are many many such mens mags) are women posed in certain poses to incite lust. They are clothed(or not clothed) in provocative clothes designed to promote lust. Their body positions and facial expressions are to incite lust, very sexual. Very far removed from any art. Yes it is considered 'soft porn' these days, but thats because standards have dropped so much in 3O years and,and so much really hard core porn is now available on line, including child porn, porn films, men with men, and women with women, sexual sadism etc etc. However that doesnt mean that mens mags are not porn, it just means that the worlds moral standards have gone down and down.
Porn of any sort is wrong and very damaging to the one looking at it and their families. Most porn users will go to more and more degraging porn to feed their lust. Even if they dont, the mags are bad in themsleves. No married man should look at women who are barely clad (or not clothed at all) to get their kicks. Its unfaithfullness and its also degrading for the wife.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 06:29 PM   #64
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

EEGADS...Why do you persist in discussions of a magazine? Is it possible to contain yourselves and not to monologue here and get a question asked on this forum? A magazine or specific magazine has NOTHING to do with this question which I asked Sasha concerning what she found or suspects in her husband about porn!

This now turns into a monologue on porn or the merits of a magazine/or not or a specific magazine! Perhaps it is internet or perhaps something else. Is it possible we can get that established?

Sasha...I asked the question to you. Have you discussed this?

Last edited by 1aokgal; 3rd September 2011 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 07:20 PM   #65
Helen_uk
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Re: Married and lonely

Sasha,

You first posted about this back in April . Has anything changed since then ? Can I ask why you think your H is an idiot ?

It seems to me you have very little love for him, if any at all so for me that begs the question : Why are you continuing with the marriage ?

Whilst it's true , from your description, he isn't putting much into the marriage and it would appear he has no plans to alter that any time soon I would have to say if it were me I'd leave.

In fact that's pretty much what I did do when it became apparent that things in my last marriage had reached the point of no reconciliation. I worked hard for quite a few years to try to fix the problems we had but to no avail and at some point you have to make a decision about whether the marriage is tenable or not.

It does seem that neither of you are really getting much out of it or appear very happy , so maybe it's time to make that decision ?
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Old 3rd September 2011, 07:52 PM   #66
chosen
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Re: Married and lonely

The point is that whatever 'type' of porn her husband is looking at, it is still porn, and that is still very hurtful for her.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 08:00 PM   #67
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

Who knows what kind of porn he is into! It is impossible to communicate or ask this poster through your speeches on porn.
There was a point to inquire.

The point of your lectures here were....????? You are insufferably rude!
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Old 3rd September 2011, 08:13 PM   #68
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

Helen...

As always, your points are well taken. Exactly the impression I got from Sasha's postings were the marriage is locked into dislike, no compromise, no progress and no happiness for either.

She prays for her husband to change. I thought he shows that God answers those prayers in some ways as this husband does try in this marriage. He took his son to church. Sasha writes ..she did not care and it made no difference.

This father then took his family to the theme park. His wife has so much anger she confronted him with an embarrasssing remark to impress the other lady who accompanied them! The husband ignored the comment. He tried to carry through for a civil day. Those actions on his part show his love for his son.

Conclusion....Sasha neither likes nor repects her husband. There is so much animousity she can't control herself in a social situation.
That marriage is over and just needs an end to it. Sasha has his paycheck and he continues to do his duty to maintain the household. It is a lose, lose situation for him. When a marriage descends to this level the emotional detachment means there is no possible resolution.
There is no portion of blame in a marriage as both either contribute, or do not.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 3rd September 2011 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 08:19 PM   #69
Forever
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Re: Married and lonely

Hmmm....
I dont know if this will help you Shasha, but I was married twenty years to a policeman. He was very much like your husband is, including the porn which he had started in his early teens. I knew about it, but never understood the impact it could have in a man's heart...I was only 18. The result of this, is that while handling his work in a professional and detached manner, he also handled his marriage the same way. Being young, I did not know that there was something amiss...I had nothing to compare our marriage to since he was mostly uncommunicative and I was busy raising children and running a home fit for a King.

He left when he decided that there was so much more "out there" to be had besides the wife and four children that were his.

His porn, (magazines at the time since there was no internet), taught him to fantasize and that he had set his standards too low when he hooked up with the likes of me. Add to that my faith in God and being an outgoing person with considerable drive and intelligence, he felt threatened (though I did not know it at the time).

My advice to you would be to be kind, civil, and continue to follow the Biblical guidelines for proper behavior given to Christian wives....in spite of your opinion of him or of his behavior. If he leaves, or if the Holy Spirit prompts you to leave then you will have a different future to look forward to at that time.

Best Wishes
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Old 3rd September 2011, 08:43 PM   #70
chosen
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Re: Married and lonely

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post
Who knows what kind of porn he is into! It is impossible to communicate or ask this poster through your speeches on porn.
There was a point to inquire.

The point of your lectures here were....????? You are insufferably rude!
I think you will find that that you actually initiated all of this by implying that if Sashas husband was 'only' looking at porn mags, then it didnt really matter much, when it matters a lot to wives when their husbands are lusting after women in porn mags. Thats what I found demeaning to Sasha(and other women whose husband buy these rubbishy mags).
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Old 3rd September 2011, 08:53 PM   #71
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

Dear Forever..

That must have been devastating for you in that young marriage. I do think that unless a man has a very firm moral foundation that profession is hard on marriages for the temptations these men find out there.

My family has two policeman. One is my daughter, and the other the father of her child. That was already over while she was pregnant. She realized she made a terrible choice and did not chooose to marry. By the time the child was born, he already had another woman expecting a child. She was 18, and realized that 32 year old 2X married guy with other children, was a poor choice. He has the morals of an alleycat and married this other woman. While he has been good to his children, he sets a poor example for them.

I think these men keep much inside because of drama in the job environment. That makes it easier to live a double life. There was also a study to suggest many live with post traumatic syndrome, similar to men in battle zones, who have flattened emotions which is why they could be drawn to porn for the adrenelin in responses.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 3rd September 2011 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 08:57 PM   #72
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

Chosen..

You missed the point of my question....to find out what porn she found and address that. Had you followed the discussion ..I think you would get that. I tried to find out what had happened.

I never said "only looking at porn magazines." That is in the eye of the beholder..you.
It is called fact finding in most counselling. Here..a waste of time.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 09:10 PM   #73
Forever
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Re: Married and lonely

Chosen,
The lack of respect is now an ongoing thing between both of them...but it was initiated first by his disrespect for his wife by continually using porn, and then by her since finding out about it. Porn on any level usually becomes a "deal breaker" in most marriages where there is no repentance. Since she did not initiate a divorce (based on Christian principles rather than legalities) then what you are looking at here is the long term damage in both of them.

No doubt, he is the instigator here, but she keeps seething because she has not done anything to take a stand and initiate a remedy that relieves her pain....and he is simply not going to repent although he calls himself Christian. Regardless, she needs to watch her own attitudes and behavior as long as she is living with him. The marriage is dead....the man is a fraud, and she must be careful not to compromise her Christian character any further if she is not going to divorce him.
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Old 3rd September 2011, 10:48 PM   #74
1aokgal
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Re: Married and lonely

Agreed porn can be the deal breaker but even that suspicion is poor excuse for total disrespect and uncivil behavior. My attempt was to get the story as to what she found/suspected and if the subject was confronted. We never heard the story, only her statement.
She prays for change, but doesn't allow that he could make them with her behavior.

Even in a marriage I believe that a person is innocent until there is strong indications leading to ones' belief.

I leave you both to sort the issues.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 4th September 2011 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 4th September 2011, 10:39 AM   #75
Shasha
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Re: Married and lonely

Hello there, I am not upset with you for expressing your views, after all this is what makes the debate lively.
It is one thing to post messages online to such debates and an0ther to actually live the life I currently live. My main reason for joining these discussions, is to see if other people are experiencing, what I'm going through and to see how they are coping or have fared out.

Forgiveness? Oh, yes. If I had not forgiven my husband, we would not have these discussions, because I would have been long gone from the so-called marriage.

Raymond, you asked "What do you think God is saying to you just now?" To answer your question, I do not have all the answers, but one thing I do know that I can do and that is to set goals. I do not know what the Lord has in store for me at this time. This is why I am staying put for now. It makes no sense to me to jump from the fire, into the frying pan. It is unbearable at times, yes, but it does me no good to run off, when I can easily take a few baby steps at a time. Then eventually the road will be clear to do what needs to be done.

I am now trying to occupy my life, by doing things that interest me and things with my son, doing my course, preparing for my retirement years, etc, as the Lord leads. I'd better make some wise decisions, before I just pick up and leave.

1aokgal, you posed a question, “I also wonder what you label as porn? I remember some thought Playboy magazine was porn, but it was widely read….”

I do not think you have any idea about what it feels like to be betrayed, even in the simplest form. To answer your question, "I also wonder what you label as porn", my husband confessed to me, some time back, that it was his father who introduced him to porn, well not directly of course. It all began when he was a child and stumbled upon those same magazines that you have been mentioning in your thread. His father used to have them hidden under his mattress, etc. That was how my h first got hold of those God-forsaken items.

Then, I guess that's where the root of the deception started in a young child’s mind and spirit. A few years ago, I woke up in the middle of the night to find my h engrossed in front of the computer. I was curious to know what was going on, as I could hear sexual sounds coming from the computer. Getting a little closer, I could see movement of what was explicit sexual acts enfolding right before my eyes and need I say more! I was shocked, hurt, and confused, obviously!


So therefore, he does not only watch porn magazines like 1aokgal seems to think, but progressed into hardcore live computer porn! I had a chance to speak to him about this and he just ignored me. I tried to find out if he was addicted to porn and if so to get some help, but got no where with this. I have stumbled upon this behaviour on more than one occasion and even masturbation.


To respond to your comment about my husband leaving me. Yes he could probably set off and leave, but he loves his son and would not sacrifice this move, if he wanted to. In addition, he is very comfortable in the home. Meals are done, housekeeping done. He gets to watch his tv and stay on his computer 24/7. My h’s life is sweet and he always has his way and has no care or bother in the world, as far as I can see.

My husbands's paycheck keeps coming up all the time in this discussion. I have to stress that he does not make all that money, as people think. The money he makes is just enough to pay some of the bills and even that is not enough, sometimes.
Thank God, for my part time job which enables us to use the cash as disposable income and to pay for other bills, etc.. There has got to be two pay checks in this household to make ends meet. I have to try to budget the money properly, in order that the bills are paid on time, that there is food on the table, clothes on our backs and enough money for him to spend on himself and for computer parts, etc.

To touch on the earlier comments about me being rude to my husband, when my friend posed the question to me…..I know what kind of person my h is, so therefore saying what I said must have made him think. Immediately after we returned from the trip, do you know what he did? Well, his behaviour towards my son and me has changed somewhat! I have started to see a different man. After the trip, he has been doing things with our son like preparing his dinner, he has made an effort to talk to me and to even sit with us, now and again. I do not know how long it will last, as he always start like this, then gives me hope. After a week or so, he begins to slip back into his old habits again, once I start to respond to his kindness. Then his behaviour leaves me to wonder if he was just putting on a show. Then he will go on to ignore me, withdraw from us and starts to spend more & more time behind the computer and tv. He would start treating me with indignation. He would ignore our son and not interact with him and will not talk to us in the house for days at a time.

As for being personal, if any one of you may think that my behaviour with my husband sucked, then, by all means, have your say. I have examined my heart, my words, my actions and have asked the Lord to forgive me for them, if they were offensive or untimely. I'm not perfect and get to learn from Him and get corrected on a daily basis, as there is always room for improvement. But I cannot pretend that things are perfect and pretend and hide my emotions. After all, I'm only human and there is only one who is perfect and that is Jesus Christ.

So, as I have said before, I have done all that I can possible do, until now I just try to maintain my sanity and focus on things that make me happy.
Thanks so much to those who have been a great encouragement to me, since I have joined these discussions.
God bless you and may you be prosperous in all your endeavours.

Regards,
Shasha
__________________
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
That whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

"For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world,
But that the world through Him
might be saved." JN 3:16,17

Grace be with you all.
God bless!

Last edited by Shasha; 4th September 2011 at 11:22 AM.
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