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Old 10th December 2010, 06:29 PM   #91
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Some men are like that Sweetz. Although the sexual drive is important, outside of relationship it can be just lust. It's a natural thing for women to know. Without relationship it can be a false sense of intimacy that isn't really there. A kind of deception in fact. Intimacy in relationship leads to true physical intimacy in marriage that leaves no room for anything physical outside of marriage.

I am sure he will learn these things if he really has come into a relationship with God.

Sorry you've got me going now. Musn't pinch Heather's thread.

Take care.
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Old 10th December 2010, 11:45 PM   #92
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Well, it would appear that my husband has had a chat with the OW. They met at a pub so that she was alone as her son was at home... in my husband's words she was 'not very happy', we haven't talked in detail about it yet but he said she has asked him to think about his decision to try and make a go of it with me and is expecting him to ring her again and let her know what he has decided. He said to me he had already decided, but also added that he needs to 'mull over' what she said to him and that we will talk about things more this weekend... so who knows. He maintains he has been too busy to think about things properly - his mum and sister were with him last night until late and he was sorting out finance etc for our small business. All valid reasons, and yet once again work comes first, even before our marriage it seems - or am I being unreasonable?
Evidently the OW's main concern is the effect that the loss of my husband will have on her son - he is a stablising influence in the boy's life and it will be a big loss... on the one hand my heart bleeds - on the other I can't help but think that is the risk you take if you sleep with another woman's husband!
Why can't I find my anger... I know in my head that I'm angry about all that he has done and yet inside me there is just a gap - a numbness - a strange calmness and detachment that makes it really hard to sort out my feelings and decide what to do. I worry that I will make a decision in this 'numb' state that I may regret later, if and when I 'wake' from it. Has anyone out there felt like this too. Maybe counselling would help - but what sort and where from?
Help!
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Old 11th December 2010, 07:41 AM   #93
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather.
thats very sad because he still hasnt ended it with her or or cut contact. Until he does this and has nothing more to do with her, what hope is there.? It seems that he just cant be strong enough or man enough to just tell her its over for good. There is no reason for him to contact her again at all. Why does he need to let her know what he has decided, I thought he already had, but it seems not.This was the fear I had when you said he was going to meet her again alone, that she would talk him round. He needs to either write and tell her once and for all its over(and let you read the letter)while telling her not to contact him again ever, or you both go and see her.

If he has already decided, then what does he need to 'mull over'?Thats shows that he has still not decided. He is not this boys father, he is his mothers lover and what sort of influence is that on him, his mother sleeping with a married man? Yes I am sure this boy will be hurt, but that is what sin does, it hurts people. he needs to be thinkiong of his own children, and of you, his wife. If he really was 100% committed to end it, he would have already done so, he has had ample opportunity.

I am not surprised that you feel numb. YOu could go to relate, either together or on you own.

Honestly Heather you have the patience of a saint to put up with this rubbish.He is clearly still not repentant or committed 100% to making this work or he wouldnt be mucking you around like this. He is still hanging on to her and hasnt got the balls to end it for good. It all depends on how long you are prepared to wait while he faffs about and keeps you hanging on a string.

You may not feel angry, but I feel angry for you. In your place I would say to him that until he has ended it wiht her for good, you want nothing more to do with him,but that if and when he has finanlly cut all ties with her, you may be open to talking and counselling with him. He is still keeping you both hanging on and quite honestly acting very badly.

Last edited by chosen; 11th December 2010 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 11th December 2010, 06:20 PM   #94
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi Chosen,

I spoke to him last night and as I said he appears to have told her that he doesn't want his marriage to fail and that he wants to be with me. I guess that is a step in the right direction - as for the 'mulling' who knows what is going on in his head. The detail that is irritating me at the moment is that he still has his phones on silent and even takes them to the loo with him now. I appreciate that he probably feels I am spying on him (I was) but until he can leave his phones where I can look at them at any time - just as I do with mine - than I guess there will always be that question in my mind about who he is texting and who is texting him... I feel so bad that I am making such a big deal about this. Maybe it is because it was the phone that gave him away in the first place. I have found so many incriminating texts on it in the past, that only the transparency of open access will convince me that he has nothing to hide. I am assuming that the OW is probably texting him to try and persuade him to stay with her - she may not even be doing that... but I just don't know. It is scarey to feel this vulnerable and I sometimes think I am going mad being so suspicious. I will have to talk to him about how I feel and see if he is prepared to let me have that access to his phones, or at least understand why I feel this way.

Why am I trying to justify my behaviour, when he has betrayed me so often? This is when I start to think I need to talk to the OW direct, but that may just make things worse for all of us.
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Old 11th December 2010, 06:23 PM   #95
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I'm sorry - it must be frustrating for you as I just seem to go round in circles and never make any progress
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Old 11th December 2010, 07:40 PM   #96
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather did he actually say that he 'appears' to have told her??? I mean, what does that mean, has he or hasnt he?This is bizarre.
Heather I'm not frustrated with you in the least, but with him and his appalling behaviour. He claims that he wants you back but is doing absolutely NOTHING to make that happen. He cannot tell her straight out that she isnt to contact him again, he is hiding his phone, being secretive and he is going to have to make drastic changes if this is to work.You are a saint to put up with it.I wouldnt.

Finishing it (if he has in fact done that)isnt enough, he will need to cut all contact, even if that means changing his phone number, email adress etc, and he will also need to be totally and 100% open with you, allowing you access to his computer, phone and anything else. This is what happens after an affair and I am wondering if you need to set clear boundaries for this to happen.
Heather, if you still want this man, it may be easier for you to both go to relate and get their help to sort this out, set boundaries for future behaviour and make sure that he sticks to it.

By hanging on to the OW woman and allowing her to text and phone him, he is keeping you all on a string. He has a very very long way to go before he is ready to begin any sort of work towards your reconciliation. As yet however he hasnt shown himself to be trustworthy or reliable enough to do this. He says he wants it but he isnt doing anything to enable it to happen. Talk is easy, but actions are harder.

You have every reason to be suspicuious of his secrecy, and he has every need to be 100% transparent with you. In fact its vital if any trust is to come back. If he has nothing to hide, then why does he need to take his phone to the bathroom????

I have a poor friend who is going through a similar thing, a husband who lives with another woman, but who keeps indicating that he may want to make a go of the marriage. Well a year has past now, he still hasnt had the guts to leave the OW, and my friend has had enough and is divorcing him. Enough is sometimes enough.

Last edited by chosen; 11th December 2010 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 11th December 2010, 11:14 PM   #97
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather
have been giving this some thought, as to what I personally would do if I were in your place and actually wanted to make a go of it. These are what my conditions woud be for the marriage to continue.
1)He immediatly cut off all contact for good with the OW.No 'ifs' or 'buts' or excuses, but totally.
2)he changed his phone number and e-mail address
3)He committed to long term counselling together
4)There would be complete openess with phones and computers, and he had to tell me where he was going and with whom.
5) strict boundaries would be set in place with his interactions with the opposite sex, such as no meals out with another woman, no one on one time with another woman etc.


These would be my minimum conditions for any attempt to get back together. if he didnt agree, or agreed and then went back on it, then that would be the end.

He is extreemly fortunate that you are even prepared to consider it. Most women would have divorced him years ago.
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Old 12th December 2010, 12:25 AM   #98
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi,
Sorry - the word 'appears' was mine... a reflection on my lack of trust rather than his lack of action. If I believe what he says, then he has told her that he wants to make his marriage work and that he will not be able to see her in the future. He then added the bit about her trying to persuade him to 'think about it' and ring her when he has considered the situation.
I agree that there will have to be boundaries and she will have to be banned on his phones - we will have to discuss what I expect in terms of transparency - phones, email, facebook account will all have to be open to me and I agree that counselling is a must for us. He doen't like the idea of counselling. I don't really, but even I can see that I can't get through this on my own. I don't trust him and I don't trust myself or my judgements anymore, I feel as though 'the rug has been pulled from under me'.
I have already taken the step of emailing a counsellor to see if they think they can help at all... I shall wait and see what happens next. We are going to discuss more tomorrow.
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Old 12th December 2010, 06:13 AM   #99
1aokgal
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather..

His phone number to be changed. You see counsellor together where you alone go and the two of you then sit down and talk about the issues.

In the meantime you are two people who enjoy each others company and do some xmas decorating or gift buys for family. You schedule a few nice outings with your girlfriends.
When you do these things together don't talk about these issues. Leave the discussions in trained counsellor office. You can rebuild the trust and find a future together but it will take both of you.

Is he physically the man he used to be? About the same weight and such as when you married? good for you to work on your personal issues that is health, weight, appearance and do some rewards for yourself. This has been a self esteem killer and work to feel good again, secure again. Glad you have a good support network with friends. Take it one day at a time.
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Old 12th December 2010, 09:31 AM   #100
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather, I think that finding a good counsellor will be an enormous help for you to find out what it is that you really want, and to make sure that he sticks to it. It doesnt matter that he doesnt like the idea, its clearly necessary for you to have a third party to help sort this out. They will have a lot of experience in helping couples in this sort of situation.

As I said before, only time will tell if this will work, if he can be trusted, and if you can ever live with him again. My advise would be not to have him back living in the house until you have both had a lot of counselling, and until you are 100% sure of what you want. This may take another 4 months, or it may take a lot longer, BUT if he is really committed, then he will wait until you are ready. Again, I admire you for your willlingness to even try, and I hope and pray that he will eventually prove himself to be worthy of this, and that you wont be let down and hurt again.
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Old 13th December 2010, 11:56 AM   #101
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I agree. This is your chance to set right conditions if you are to have him back. Conditions that Chosen and 1OKGal have described and others that might be helpful. Openess is paramount as is cutting of all contact with the other woman.
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Old 29th December 2010, 06:19 PM   #102
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi, hope you all had good christmases!

Mine was a bit strange as you can imagine. The kids were home, which was great and my husband was home for Christmas day, then he decided to go and see his mum and sister to take their presents. He hasn't been back since - said he wanted time to be on his own. I asked him if he had contacted the OW since the conversation when he told her that was the end and he said no. His phone said otherwise - he rang her/ or tried to on the 23rd Dec. I am really struggling with the whole trust and honesty thing... I am going to have to ask him about it... why he keeps lying. I appreciate that he has known her a long time and will find it hard to be away from her but I would find it easier to cope if he was at least able to be honest about it.
Where is my self respect?

I guess the New Year can only get better - I would just like this limbo to end and for us to be able to come sort of agreement and decision one way or the other before too long.
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Old 29th December 2010, 07:29 PM   #103
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather, if he is still contacting her, then he hasnt ended it has he. He is also still lying. Ending it means no contact at all ever again and NO MORE LIES. I suspect he is still seeing her, or at the very least, talking on the phone to her. He hasnt kept his side to end it, and until he does there is no really hope.
Yes I agree with you, where is your self respect?
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Old 29th December 2010, 08:51 PM   #104
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I agree. A cut means a cut. There is no reason for him to contact her if he is meaning business.

Putting the best slant on it there could be things about the house, belongings or something. I don't know, but obviously it will not work with contact going on as too much has happened between them.

I have a chap who has been trying to contact my wife for years as she was engaged to him once. He is married now but has persisted over the years. She hasn't responded once to him out of principle.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 10:45 AM   #105
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Have asked my husband whether he has been in touch with the OW since his chat with her - he replied.. only to say Happy Christmas and New Year to each other...
I asked how come she was feeling that friendlt towards him if he had ended it and he just said she was ok with things. I think he bought her son a present too as I saw a reciept for it. I need to ask him about that - I don't bear her son any ill will, but an end is an end, and she should have considered her son at the start of this.
So as you can see the New Year starts with confusion - still - I know I have to talk about this with him if I am going to persuade him that honesty and transparency are the only ways through this... I sometimes wonder if this is all worth it - fighting for a marriage - and whether I wouldn't just be better off on my own!
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