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Old 31st March 2009, 12:29 AM   #16
rppearso
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I do have to say that the "husbands love your wife" is over played, this phrase can not be used as an excuse to not take care of your husband. The sacrifice is for each spouce to make there spouse happy not for one spouce to make excuses why they dont want to do something. Getting upset with me over this does not change reality, men who are neglected are not going to be happy it does not matter how much you nag them or "threaten to not hold your tongue". If you dont go into the marriage willing to do anything to make your spouce is happy then you should not be getting married, just think about it if you dont get married you dont have to worry about taking care of a husbands sexual needs. I simply have noticed a pattern in church and with the way people enable neglect, if you knew there were things you did not want to do sexually before getting married you should have brought that up with your BF before he became your husband otherwise thats not fair to him, if you change your mind later on then thats on you not him, dont play the "love your wife" card when you just baited and switched on him, he has a right to be unhappy and there is a strong posibility of divorce because there was deception in the beginning, deception is a sin, sexual neglect is a sin and in the end the guy getting the divorce is the bad guy, I dont think so.

here is a quote;

I can do the dishes myself
I can cook my own food
I can clean my own clothes
Sexually I have to rely on my wife

IF there is any area in the marriage not to flake out on its sex, all that other stuff can be worked out but if you flake out on the sex your are heading for trouble. Like wise the husband should give his wife what she needs cuddling, kissing, back rubs, saying nice things etc thoes things are not optional just like OS is not optional if your husband likes it. I think all to often people use the "love your wife" card so they can be selfish and do everything humanly possible to get out of making there husband happy and that is evil and the church supports it and that is flat out wrong, just because you dont want to do something does not mean its ok.

Do you really want to stay in a relaitonship with a man who is not happy with you? Who does not want to spend time with you because he is sexually frustrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
I agree with Raymond here. It seems as if all the compromise has to be in one direction towards you. Certainly doesn't sound like you are prepared to consider your wife's needs, likes and dislikes - if she won't meet yours (and quite frankly the majority of women would likely have issue with some of what you want) then she's out. Not very "husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church" - its SUPPOSED to be sacrificial in BOTH directions.

Apologies if I offend anyone, but as a woman, a wife and a Christian I could no longer hold my tongue here.

CO

Last edited by rppearso; 31st March 2009 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 31st March 2009, 07:34 PM   #17
clockwork orange
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I reiterate - where is YOUR sacrifice in this? Why should your wife do something she's not particularly fond of when you obviously won't even consider the option of doing without some aspects. Perhaps you need to try having a rather large finger rammed down your throat and being asked to swallow stuff that doesn't actually taste particularly good. Then come back and tell us what you think?
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Old 1st April 2009, 12:19 AM   #18
rppearso
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

The mans sacrafice is choosing a job that keeps him close to home, comming home early from work, staying home to cuddle with his wife when his buddies are having a kegger I can go on and on or sexually satisfying his wife (which should not be a sacrafice, you should want to satisfy your spouse). Im sure you like to recieve OS and women dont taste like maricino cherries.
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Old 1st April 2009, 06:06 PM   #19
clockwork orange
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

No, not actually that keen on it rp. But believe me when I say that there are things I could demand be a part of our sex life because I might think they are essential - but i learn to live differently and make sacrifices for his sake. Because I love him and want his happiness first. But I am not sure you would understand that.
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Old 1st April 2009, 07:24 PM   #20
Raymond
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

Changing the subject I don't think husbands love your wives can be overplayed. Everything else hangs on that.

I agree that is addressed to the husband and not the wife and therefore the wife should not say the bible says you have to love me anymore than we should say you have to be subject to me.

I don't think I would have got through without those scriptures. They are for life and need lots of thought and understanding to be worked out in our lives.

Raymond
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Old 1st April 2009, 08:52 PM   #21
Brotan
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I have followed this topic with interest because I believe that sexual issues in marriage are important. The Bible declares that too. However rp you seem to lay the blame for the failure of your marriage purely on your wifeīs lack of desire to meet your sexual`needs/wants.

Not once have you said that you could be responsible for anything and you have confessed no sins at all on here yet sprouted things you have done that go clearly against a lot that is written in the Bible. I have one question for you: you say you go to church and do not like them condemning you - are you a Christian? If so, what are your beliefs about your own responsibility as a Christian in upholding Godīs word? If you are not a Christian then what exactly are you doing on this site - are you looking to find Christ or are you looking to stir up things with Christians so that you an again say that Christians are condemning? Christians are humans, they make mistakes, they do wrong things, but they live under grace and Godīs love. The idea is that in Godīs eyes we are responsible for the choices we make and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive them - and that goes for your wife, girlfriend and yourself. The aim of Christianity is to have a relationship with God and strive to be like Christ.

I do not know what the point of your post is anymore. You have said what you came to say. God says that what you are doing is sin you cannot be married and have sex with another since you shouldn]t marry two people. Take people out of the equation and consider your own relationship with God and finally your relationship with your significant other.
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Old 1st April 2009, 10:41 PM   #22
rppearso
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I have never said what I am doing is nessicarily right but I was pushed and pushed by the church and my wife, I was attacked and labeled before my ex walked out so I dont feel I have alot of responsibility in my situation other than the fact that I am seeing someone else before im divorced but that was beside the point in my post and you totally side stepped my questions and grave concerns I have with the church as a whole, the church enabled the separation of my marriage because like you they did a double faced analysis of sex, you admited that it is important but yet you could not help yourself from minimizing it by stating "the failure of your marriage purely on your wifeīs lack of desire to meet your sexual`needs/wants" (btw there were alot of other issues in the marriage as well that I could have delt with if the sex was better) I would say thats a big deal and purposly failing to meet your spouces needs is a quick way to break down a marriage. The church is sick and im calling them out but no one listens, yea im in sin now after the church spent 1.5 years enabling my wife to break me down ultimately destroying the marriage. Im sorry if I get a little passionate about this but this is not an academic discussion to me its very real. Before my ex walked out I conceaded I was tired of going to counseling and tired of going to church so I just said you win and I studied for my engineering exam and slipped into a depression, my work is the onlything that kept me sane, she then said I was not meeting her needs and she left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotan View Post
I have followed this topic with interest because I believe that sexual issues in marriage are important. The Bible declares that too. However rp you seem to lay the blame for the failure of your marriage purely on your wifeīs lack of desire to meet your sexual`needs/wants.

Not once have you said that you could be responsible for anything and you have confessed no sins at all on here yet sprouted things you have done that go clearly against a lot that is written in the Bible. I have one question for you: you say you go to church and do not like them condemning you - are you a Christian? If so, what are your beliefs about your own responsibility as a Christian in upholding Godīs word? If you are not a Christian then what exactly are you doing on this site - are you looking to find Christ or are you looking to stir up things with Christians so that you an again say that Christians are condemning? Christians are humans, they make mistakes, they do wrong things, but they live under grace and Godīs love. The idea is that in Godīs eyes we are responsible for the choices we make and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive them - and that goes for your wife, girlfriend and yourself. The aim of Christianity is to have a relationship with God and strive to be like Christ.

I do not know what the point of your post is anymore. You have said what you came to say. God says that what you are doing is sin you cannot be married and have sex with another since you shouldn]t marry two people. Take people out of the equation and consider your own relationship with God and finally your relationship with your significant other.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 09:24 AM   #23
Brotan
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

Rp if you read my previous replies to this topic you will find that I did address your concerns with the church - I say again that to condemn someone based on their sin is wrong, but to NOT condemn the sin is also unbiblical. The sin remains sin, the person is Godīs creation and as a Christian under Godīs grace. I can understand that this issue is important to you, but am trying to understand what it is you want to change - what type of action would you want from: your wife, your GF, the church which would enable you to get on with your life and move on from here?

Would me condemning the churches behaviour actually help you? Would me saying that your wife should have met all your needs actually help and that she was fully to blame for the breakdown in your marriage help you to continue with your life? Regardless what happens you are going to have to make your own decisons and get on with life whether you reconcile with your wife, continue dating your GF or marry her. The problem I see is that if you do not acknowledge your own failings in your previous marriage then you are very likely to continue them in the next relationship and then wonder why that one does not work out either - your GF is a different person, she has different expectations, you however are the same person as the one separated from your wife - it is only you who can work on you to make it work in the future.

That is not to say that your wife didnīt have faults. Of course she did else she wasnīt human. But you still need to move on and you are going to take yourself with you.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 11:22 AM   #24
Raymond
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I couldn't put it better than that.

Raymond
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Old 3rd April 2009, 05:57 PM   #25
rppearso
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I have already moved on and am fine, I guess what I want to know is what would it take for the church to change there tune, 60% divorce rate, 70%, how low does it have to go before they wake up and realize they are not preaching reality, I tried to talk to leadership in church and one guy agreed with me on divorcing my wife (I was in an absolutly crazy situation) the others droned on about mission statements and you formed a covenant, God hates divorce blah blah. I guess I want to see if there are other christians out there who live in reality. The bible says each is to have there own husband and wife and if you burn with passion you are to marry and when you are married you are not to deny each other sexually, I tried to do everything by the book and when it failed becaues of my spouse (I will not take responsibility for the hard ship I was put though) I got ostrisized because I still had that burning passion but this time im a little more apprehensive (but the apprehension does not mean the passion goes away), I will eventually get married again most likely to my currant GF but im not going to jump into it tomorrow and the church needs to be understanding about that, its not like im trying to notch my bed post (They need to see the fact that I made a sincer effort, and I fell short and guess what so do they but because my issues were around sex and maybe theres was around anger or something else I get the crumby end of the stick). Another issue I have is unequal condemnation of sin, there is way to much spot light on sexual issues, its all about balance and the church does not have balance. I talked to the one guy that agreed with me and he said I was not disfellowshiped but how can I go somewhere where people look at you different (and its not just my perception I have emails from people that were hard core, no sympathy).

Either Hell was designed for humans or we are misinterpreting the bible as a collective, if Hell was not designed for humans then why would the path be so narrow? (this is a little side bar for thought, if you could answer it it would put me at ease)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotan View Post
Rp if you read my previous replies to this topic you will find that I did address your concerns with the church - I say again that to condemn someone based on their sin is wrong, but to NOT condemn the sin is also unbiblical. The sin remains sin, the person is Godīs creation and as a Christian under Godīs grace. I can understand that this issue is important to you, but am trying to understand what it is you want to change - what type of action would you want from: your wife, your GF, the church which would enable you to get on with your life and move on from here?

Would me condemning the churches behaviour actually help you? Would me saying that your wife should have met all your needs actually help and that she was fully to blame for the breakdown in your marriage help you to continue with your life? Regardless what happens you are going to have to make your own decisons and get on with life whether you reconcile with your wife, continue dating your GF or marry her. The problem I see is that if you do not acknowledge your own failings in your previous marriage then you are very likely to continue them in the next relationship and then wonder why that one does not work out either - your GF is a different person, she has different expectations, you however are the same person as the one separated from your wife - it is only you who can work on you to make it work in the future.

That is not to say that your wife didnīt have faults. Of course she did else she wasnīt human. But you still need to move on and you are going to take yourself with you.
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Old 4th April 2009, 07:51 AM   #26
Brotan
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I am not sure what you are asking in your aside - are you asking whether I believe that hell was designed for humans or are you asking why is it so difficult to get into heaven or is it something else? I have read your sentence many times but have not been able to figure out what you are asking. Please could you clarify this for me.
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Old 4th April 2009, 11:48 AM   #27
Raymond
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

Also when you say the church that you want to put right are you talking about your church, the national church or the worldwide church?

You've got two members of the church here. How are you going to put us right?

Raymond
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Old 4th April 2009, 08:15 PM   #28
rppearso
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Re: Marriage - Divorce ...... GF

I was reading that hell was not designed for humans but for the devil and that God wanted us with him, if that is the case then why did he make the "path" so narrow and the process so onerous. The bible says we have forgivness through christ but then later on in the bible it presents a whole lanudry list of behaviors that will keep people out of heaven. I think either there is some gross mistranslations or misinturpretations somewhere. Also why did Jesus talk down to the samarian woman I would not think that would be a God like trait (Jew or no Jew). I do believe that the truth will set you free but I dont think any one in church is playing with the full deck not even myself. I have met one guy at work that is apart of another church and he has realistic views on the interface between the bible and real life and he is also an engineer and delt with the exact same issues I did with his ex wife so I may join his group at some point. I think studying the bible and understanding God is much like studying thermodynamics except church and the bible is wroght with peoples unbiblical opinions and emotions that detract from raw knowlage, even Jesus himself said the pharasies would stand around on the street corners and wave there hands around and engage in all sorts of rituals that is exactly what we do in church its all way to touchy feely and too little content.

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Originally Posted by Brotan View Post
I am not sure what you are asking in your aside - are you asking whether I believe that hell was designed for humans or are you asking why is it so difficult to get into heaven or is it something else? I have read your sentence many times but have not been able to figure out what you are asking. Please could you clarify this for me.
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