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Old 14th January 2009, 09:09 PM   #1
SteveVe
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Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair


My wife and I have been happily married for 15 years—we have 3 beautiful pre teen children. We had settled into what I thought was a happy, lifetime committed relationship that I never ever ever questioned. We have a surreal life that allows us to travel together as a family a lot.

Recently we invited one of my wife’s male friends from college on a vacation with us. They had never dated, kissed, nor anything else, but my wife had told me she liked him—even when we invited him to our wedding. Apparently they spent a lot of time together in college. During the trip I let them spend and talk a lot of time together…I could tell this made her happy and I want her to be happy.

After the vacation things were not the same. I confronted my wife and after many, many days of ‘painful extraction’ (one detail at a time only after I pressed that her story did not make sense) she told me that nothing had happened, but after the vacation she had pressed him to reveal some 15 year old secret that she thought was related to her. She talked to him telling him that he ‘he must make other girls feel good, because he made her feel good,’ asked ‘if you were not married would you date me?’ and even send an sms ‘currently reading “My Heart Belongs to You”…is that allegory?’ She told him that they were very compatible with each other. He told her she should speak to her girlfriends about this and apparently began to lighly avoid my wife. During the process of calls and SMSs I found out that she deleted call records as she made calls. In her eyes she was doing something wrong or something that would hurt me or in other words she had a very low level emotional affair.

Since I had had a relationship of 100% trust, this deeply affected my world. I could not believe that she would delete SMSs or hide things from me. It pains me to see this trust hurt this bad. I just thought we had a 100% open relationship based on 100% trust. Naïve me.

Even though I am a good husband, she brought up issues of things I should change. I agree with some of them…we both had begun to take each of us for granted. I was to quick to apologize and to quick to express my devoted lifetime love for her. Over the next week the whole thing somehow became ‘my problem.’ I finally stated that the trust that was gone had nothing to do with me. At first she was mad, but I think she has seen that that is the biggest issue and that she caused that trust to diminish.

My wife is concerned about looking attractive and I guess this past friendship brought her back to her college days when she was 35 lbs thinner (she put herself on a diet during the vacation)—I have always told her (and meant it) that she was attractive and beautiful to me and others. She is going through some sort of a mid-life crisis (listening to a lot of Bob Seger songs). What concerns me is that when I ask if she is still in love with me she stated she would ‘soon be again.’ Then I asked if she would be leaving when she stated ‘she did not think so’ when the answer just 2 weeks ago would have been ‘never.’ She also said that we were not compatible (i.e. like different music, don’t laugh at the same jokes, like dancing, etc.—she is with her male friend). I told here we were compatible for the things that mattered—which I truly believe, but cannot explain. In quick summary I cannot even believe the words ‘separation’ are part of our vocabulary now.

Let me state that I am very trustful and naïve. When she said that ‘she would soon be in love with me again’ it took me a week to begin to realize what that began to mean. Now I am beginning to wonder if I should have had affairs when I had had a chance—I have been a boy scout. Now I am beginning to question my love for her and have begun to envision a life without her. I am tired of feeling that I the only one saying ‘I love you’—I am tired of being nice and being taken for granted. I am tired about wondering what she is typing on her phone. I don’t think this is beneficial to our long term relationship.

I know this is not important now, but would she would have had an affair if her male friend would have chimed in?


My other concern is that she wants to talk to her male friend to ‘bring the relationship back to normal.’ I can understand this--after all last time they talked she was starting to make passes at him. How should I handle this?

I feel I might be stating my love for my wife too much...can this be bad?


Any advice for a naive husband? Please restate it even if you think I know what is going on.
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Old 14th January 2009, 09:58 PM   #2
Raymond
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

It was a mistake asking this lad on holiday with you. She is certainly under temptation with him around. Thank God he didn't take the bate. She should be discouraged from seeing him as she has memories of him as a possible old flame. I don't think you should let her even try and get the relationship on the level. It should end for her good, your good and his good. You don't feed these things you cut them off. Beware of the little foxes that spoil the vine. It can be the little things that can negatively affect your marriage if they are of a certain nature. She belongs to you only, in the intimate sense. That's what marriage is.

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Old 15th January 2009, 01:48 AM   #3
Hilary
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

You are currently going through one of those bumpy periods which happen in a marriage and it takes courage to have a good look at yourself and your marriage. Congratulations in trying to work through it and gain further understanding. Keep on with it.

And might I also suggest be open to alternative ways of looking at your whole relationship.

Affairs are very very common in marriage, which doesn't of course make them right. But neither does it mean that the marriage is over.

One of the things that happens during a long marriage - and at 15 years you are starting to tip over into a long marriage - is that you continue to grow and develop as a person. And along the way we all find parts of our personality which are underdeveloped which want to grow up. Unfortunately the right environment to do that growing up in is not always available and so we use what we have.

In your wife's case she is likely to have found that certain of her needs are not being met in her current social environment. Don't get me wrong - this is not a failing on your part as it not up to you to meet all of her needs (though there might be some parts you could have done better).

In all probability many of the attributes she finds so incredibly attractive in the other guy are attributes which she has in herself but which she has yet to develop fully. Instead of recognising this she projects them all on to him. And the stronger she is denying these gorgeous traits in herself the stronger she will see them in him.

Also after 15 years of marriage she is ready to move on to the next stage of her life. She and you have raised the children to the stage where she can see them becoming independent and she will need to have a vision and a plan for an interesting, exciting purpose for the middle part of her adult life. If she doesn't develop that she can easily get sidetracked into this incredibly exciting relationship with another person.

So instead of blaming yourself for being naive and her for having emotional connections with another start thinking about your middle adulthood and how to make it so it meets middle adulthood needs and aspirations.

For me it meant going to university to study theology and then get a PhD in medicine. For another friend it meant striking out in her own business. What is it to be for your wife and for you? There is so much more in life that what you know about at the moment.

Yes, I know it is incredibly hard. Life can be very hard. And it is never nice to have your life blow up around you. But I urge you not to get hung up on this separation thing. Focus on the good parts and chill out whenever possible. If you want to stay with her then you need to let her know you still want her in the marriage in a way that she sees as positive. If you make the whole scene nasty and argumentative then it gives her an excuse to move away from you. But if your reassure her that you see this as just a bump in the marriage and that together you can meet her needs and find a way for her to do something that she passionately enjoys (and this does not include an affair!) in her future then you are much more likely to see a way through.

Go well.
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Old 15th January 2009, 09:20 AM   #4
SteveVe
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

Is there risk in saying 'I love you to often'? It seems I say it often and are heart felt...she not that often and forced. In hindsight it seems that I expressed my devoted love to quickly after this episode.

The male friend lives very far away (thank God). They used to talk about 3-4 times a year. My wife wants to call again to have a 'normal' conversation and has actually offered to make that call in front of me. I really believe that in her mind the whole affair occurred in a few hours and can be reset by to nothing with a phone call. She is probably right. Thoughts?
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Old 15th January 2009, 09:56 AM   #5
Raymond
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

My wife used to go out with someone before me. He is now married but occasionally tries to contact my wife. Wisely my wife is careful not to allow him the contact and closes it down quickly. Good on her. What profit is it. We are happily married and don't need it.

It's great that she offered to make that call in front of you. At least she understands where you are coming from Steve. It is still a thing to be watched though I think.

On your other point it is a commendable thing to tell your wife that you love her if it is sincere. Why do you think it may be wrong? Is there something else going on here? I struggle with saying it but my wife doesn't. I do say it but I don't know why I struggle with it. Maybe something to do with my background?

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Old 15th January 2009, 12:07 PM   #6
Ageing Grace
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

Hi, Steve.

You've had some good replies here. I want to support Hilary's point about projecting our own 'missing' qualities onto others ... What your wife sees in this guy is not necessarily himself, but what she feels she's lacking, or had when she was at college but has now lost.

Picking up old friendships is often a way of trying to regain the perceptions of ourselves that we had back then. The fact that she also started a diet suggests she's feeling old, frumpy, bored, unfulfilled ... Happens to us all now & again!

So, perhaps, the main thing is for the two of you to take a fresh look at your lives together: what new elements you could introduce; what routines you could alter; different approaches you can take with your social, domestic & travelling life. Maybe she abandoned some activities or interests back then, which she'd like to revisit?

I realise all this is easier to say than put into practise. It's an unpleasant shock to discover your partner doesn't find your life together as perfect as you thought. I'm just trying to suggest how you might broaden your conversations with your wife - calls to this guy are neither here nor there, it seems to me. The big issue is "what's wrong, and how can we change?"

Re: I love you. Words are only words. When you've heard them said untruthfully as often as I have, that becomes obvious. Some people are very verbal; some not at all. As Raymond says, a less-verbal partner can make the effort to use words more often. But loving actions say far more.

Best wishes,
AG
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Old 16th January 2009, 07:58 PM   #7
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

You have to get tough. Do not chase her. Let her know that this hurt you and she needs to build the trust back up. Make it very clear that she can not talk to this guy anymore. Tell her you will not hesitate to call him. Also it is very important that you two seek MC's. She will try to turn this on you but it is her doing it
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Old 17th January 2009, 05:11 AM   #8
Hilary
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

SteveVe
Don't worry about what is passed. Personally I like hearing my husband say he loves me each day. but I think if he said it more than a couple of times a day I would think he was needy and needing a response from me that I might not be able to give him at that exact moment.

I like AGs suggestions of finding fresh ways to be a couple - good one!

I don't think I can agree with jjjj - that sort of head on animosity would just irritate the hell out of me. Even more so given the probable minor nature of the issue. The bigger you make it in your eyes the bigger you will make it in hers.

what you want to do is make this a time to really improve on the best bits of the marriage, "what can WE do to improve the time we have together" and "what can WE do to make sure that our next 10 years are great for both of us."

I can't say I'm a great supporter of shared counselling - most of them aren't very good and move through very quickly to trial separation, separation and divorce.
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Old 27th January 2009, 01:20 PM   #9
ukbikerman
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

OK, Steve, read my post - follow what happened cause it's starting to sound familiar to me. ALL the danger signs are there, trouble is that I tried both the confrontation AND the affection thing before the emotional affair went all the way to a full blown sexual affair. I completely agree with Ageing Grace. Her mid life crisis? - probably.
I constantly tell my wife (even after the affair) she is attractive, but it's not the same as when it comes from a "new" man. I also think that I may have been coming across as too "needy" sometimes. I often think back to what else I could have done to prevent this, and I honestly don't know. I knew it was coming, phone calls, texts in the evenings etc. In an argument about it one day before the sex episode I gave her an ultimatum that we would divorce if I found she had a full blown affair, that did not stop her either.
I took her on a trip to the lake district in the UK - just the two of us which was great. I took her out for romantic meals, just the two of us. We were even going to couples counselling prior to the sex episode. When we talked about it afterwards, her words were "she had to find out about herself, about what she wanted".
I DO agree with Ageing Grace's comments, the difficulty is actually finding out what she feels is missing in her life, what is wrong.
Maybe it is the fact that she feels you are too "needy"? Do you have an active social life - friends of your own? (not shared friends). Maybe you need to develop your own life a little more, you own confidence? What was it she found attractive in you when you first met? Do you think you have lost that? You obviously still love her and find her attractive, does she still find you attractive in a physical and emotional sense?
Anyway, good luck, I truly hope it works out.
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Old 6th March 2009, 09:52 PM   #10
SteveVe
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

Stupid Stupid Stupid Me

Even though my gut was never relaxed, I trusted again just to find a secret e-mail account / phone calls to her male friend while she was traveling.

After much painful extraction she told she had called him about a month ago and again last week. In the call last week she had stated to him that she had a strong marriage and that the only thing that could threaten it would be him. After that he would not return her calls, nor e-mails. She then created a secret e-mail account…her message said: "How long are you planning on avoiding me? Just so I know. I hope to be able to call you, but don't panic. I won't be a bother to you. If you have regular questions email my regular account. This one I just made up temporarily. I will check it for a while."

I left the house for a few hours, but came back. I gave her the ultimatum of no contact whatsoever with him or we would divorce. The pain of lies and betrayal is something that I have never experience and would not wish on my worst enemy.

She has been very apologetic, but like an addicted person stated that she could not help herself. I told her that for my own mental well-being I would NOT check up on her and that she was free to call or e-mail at will since there was zero chance I would check...something that I am planning to stick to.

However, I being unwilling to check her honesty now make it next to impossible to re-build trust and without trust there is no relationship. We discussing different programs (retreats, doctors, books, etc.) to help her figure out what is really going on with her...I want to believe it really has nothing to do with him, however, for my own mental well being I cannot continue like this.

If I am able to be comfortable in the 'answer' to what made her do this (and that it will not happen again) then I will stay. We have had what I thought was a very healthy 15 years together.

ANYTHING you have to say will be greatly appreciated...I feel very alone.
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Old 6th March 2009, 10:45 PM   #11
Ageing Grace
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

My guess:

She's feeling bored, dissatisfied, under-appreciated, unexciting ... She's fixated on this bloke as the potential answer to her frustrations, but really it could have been anybody/anything (shopping addiction, for example). You're lucky he's a decent chap but that doesn't answer the underlying questions.

How come she was travelling? Do you mean for work, or did she go off to find herself?

What did your episode in January reveal about your wife's current state of mind?

Remember she told the other man she has a strong marriage. This is great! My advice is to gain a LOT more understanding of your wife, as the person she is (not just a wife), before that strength becomes eroded.

If I'm way off beam, ignore me The ball's still in your court.

AG
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Old 7th March 2009, 02:26 PM   #12
SteveVe
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ageing Grace View Post
My guess:

She's feeling bored, dissatisfied, under-appreciated, unexciting ... She's fixated on this bloke as the potential answer to her frustrations, but really it could have been anybody/anything (shopping addiction, for example). You're lucky he's a decent chap but that doesn't answer the underlying questions.

How come she was travelling? Do you mean for work, or did she go off to find herself?
She was traveling because stupid me thought it would be a good idea if she visited a girlfriend. At substantial cost I arranged the whole thing. My wife then used her girlfriends phone to call.

My wife is unhappy. She stated than in the last month she thought about leaving. She has 'rich peoples disease' Should be happy by anyone's external measure, but yet is unhappy inside.

Why is she unhappy? We do A LOT of pleasure traveling...our family is exhausted; her dad has major health issues; we home school the kids and are way behind because of our travels; she misses her girlfriends in the home town; etc.

I don't think this specific male friend had anything to do with it...it not him then it would have been someone else.

I am deeply hurt because I have been extra nice, considerate, sharing my deepest secrets, etc. over the last month. Furthermore, as I have examined the last 15 years I really have been a good husband. Being betrayed twice in last month when I thought we were working things out is unbearable.

How do I re-build trust? How will I ever believe anything she ever says?
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Old 12th March 2009, 02:28 PM   #13
SteveVe
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

When I am with her life seems normal. When I am away from her I feel so betrayed...I don't understand what went through her mind pursuing this and lying to me.

It bothers me that my sense of commitment has dwindled. I feel very betrayed.
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Old 12th March 2009, 03:27 PM   #14
JWD
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

Of course you do. It's an awful betrayal. They are getting their emotional needs from someone else and they don't care how we feel about it.

It's like an addiction.
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Old 13th March 2009, 01:01 AM   #15
Hilary
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Re: Naïve husband needs advice of wife’s light emotional affair

JWD, it is exactly like an addiction. You hit that right on the head. But don't then assume that they don't care how you feel about it. They might care a lot and feel a lot of guilt about it. But because it is addictive it is exceptionally difficult to move on, especially if the remaining partner creates massive negativity. If you do create this very negative environment you just give them 2 reasons to move on - their addiction to the other person AND you. If you want to drive them away thats OK. But if you want to keep them then you need to stay there with them, so they experience you as positive. Fortunately my husband chose not to be threatened by this person and we worked through our experience.

I really don't know where people get the very odd idea that your partner has to be the provider and receiver of all one's emotional needs. It is absolutely impossible. My husband can't provide for all of my emotional needs - many of them, and most of the important ones, but all of them? Not at all! I have lots of different needs at different times and multiple people to fulfil them.

I have a young alpha male friend who feeds my ego no end, but my husband need not worry as he is no threat and I am no threat to his wife either - we just support each other and feed each other's egos as we see enormous strengths in each other that are not yet fully developed. It is nice to have other people encourage you on to develop yourself fully and support you as you move on to your next stage in life. We exchange occasional emails and phone calls and all of them important to us in our growth.

Previously I've had even more important relationships with male spiritual directors - and might I say - absolutely proper and within our religious tradition, just in case some of you might wonder. But those relationships were at times much more emotionally fulfilling than I had with my husband at that stage.

All of which you probably think of as very different to the affair Steve is talking about. As far as the emotional nature of getting needs met outside of the relationship I don't think it is. I think what might make it different is the commitment from TWO people to stay with their marriage and make it work.

Steve, what do you have to believe in order to think that what she did was a betrayal? You say when you are with her life seems normal but that when you are alone you decide to feel betrayed. So what is going on in your mind to make her a betrayer?

And you ask why she would lie? Probably for the same reason my husband did - to stay out of trouble. It doesn't always work, but for most people lying works more often than not.

How can you rebuild trust? That is up to you. I just had to accept that I could trust my husband to always act in character - he hated confrontation and would attempt to avoid it and if he had to lie he would. Could I trust him? Absolutely - I could trust he would always act that way! So I had to find a way that I could know what was going on. Every now and then we would have an oops moment, but for probably 30 years out of our 40 years of marriage things have been good.

Might I suggest that your inner turmoil have much more to do with what is going on in your head - the conversation you have with yourself - than it does to the actual facts of the matter. You are making it all into a massive drama. But there are other ways of dealing with it all.

Why not ask her why she is unhappy? And then DO NOT try to fix it for her - only she can do that. You seem to be trying to interpret what she needs and it obviously isn't working. She is growing up into her next adult stage but doesn't have good role models to show her positive ways to do it. And you don't have positive role models to support her during her difficult times.

Basically what I'm suggesting is that if what you are doing isn't working, then try something else. Be radical, ask her. Then write it all down and check in with her that that is what she intended. And then ask her to clarify it further. A lot of us get to feel very trapped in a life we didn't intend and we have to become very creative to work out how to turn this into a fulfilling, positive and enjoyable life which is rewarding to all members of the family, not just one or two.
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