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Old 10th November 2015, 06:37 PM   #1
Aremu
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Recently separated, need unbiased insight

I apologise in advance for the long post.

Husband and I have recently separated.

H and I have been married a year and 3 months now. We live with his parents and 3 sisters in a 3 bedroom house.
We are both from a South Asian background and it is the norm / tradition to live with the H's parents although things have changed a lot and not many couples are doing this anymore.

Before marriage we discussed our living arrangements. I wanted to live at his parents for a few months then move out, he said if things went well we would stay with parents longer, but if there was any issues/problems we would move out into his home that he had bought the year before we got married (he has been leasing it since he bought). This seemed fair to me so I agreed.

The past year has been an absolute emotional rollercoaster. I have found it immensely difficult to adjust to his parents home and to his family and their way of life. His mother holds old cultural backwards views in which the daughter in law is expected to serve, look after, cook and clean after the parents in law. I have tried to keep his mother happy although I don't 'serve' her, I am not a maid. The way I see it, I live under their roof so I should do my share of chores, but for her that is not enough, so I cook for her and my father in law when I can. I ask her if I should make curry/chapati for her, if she wants a cup of tea, if there's any other chores she wants me to do, but unfortunately it's never been enough for her.

He used to be supportive of me. MIL would often wait for H to come home from work so she could bombard him with a list of complaints against me. This would happen almost every week. What resulted was huge arguments. H was usually understanding and supportive but at the time of the argument he would get angry at both me and MIL.

This is basically the situation of the past year of marriage. For the second half of the year I've been asking H to discuss our future, when we plan to move out and will we be buying or renting when we do? He would get very defensive and put off the conversation with, 'find a job first and then we'll discuss it'. I secured a job in August and sometime after I asked again. He said save some money and then we'll discuss it. I called him out on this and made it clear that I feel he is just leading me on and and has no intention of moving out. He told me he spoke to MIL and said 'there's not much space in this house, should me and the wife move out?' To which MIL replied no you can't move out, your father needs you what if he falls ill at night who will call the doctor or drive him to hospital? (He has diabetes and had a minor stroke some years ago).

I asked him what of the fact that you said before marriage we would move out if there were any problems, are you going back on your word? He replies with I'm sorry I made a mistake I shouldn't have said that, I should have known that mum wouldn't be happy with us moving out. I asked when would she be happy with us moving or is she expecting us to live here forever, he said I don't know I can't say all I can tell you is we will be living with my parents indefinitely.

As a result of all this me and H have been arguing like cat and dog. To the point where my parents had to get involved and act as a mediator, which didn't work so I went to my parents home for 2 weeks. During that time I met with H and He asked me to come home and so I did. We continued to argue as nothing had changed and a week down the line, He told me to pack my bags and leave and also text my sister telling her to come and pick me up. The next day while he was at work I packed up I left myself and I am back at parents home. It has been 3 weeks since and me and H have had no contact whatsoever. Not even one call or text from either of us.

During our arguments and discussions H has been adamant that most of the problems we have had the past year are due to me and my shortcomings, he has given me ultimatums and said that I have to change or there won't be a marriage. He has been incredibly hurtful and verbally abusive and has been threatening me with 'if you don't change I'll chuck out of The house' multiple times. I have tried to see from his point of view and where I have felt I was in the wrong or at fault I have put my hands up and admitted it. But if I try to tell him where he has gone wrong and the way he has made me feel, he becomes angry, defensive and the first sentence out of his mouth is always 'I disagree'.

Now the one thought that keeps going around in my head is how can you reconcile if one person thinks that he is faultless and has done no wrong and expects the other person to make all the changes??? I feel completely hopeless and confused, I love him and want to work things out but just don't know how.
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Old 10th November 2015, 09:19 PM   #2
chosen
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

Wow, to be honest, I cant see any future for this marriage with a man who is still so completely and utterly controlled by his mother. He has his own house but wont even move into it? Crazy.

I think that you will need to end this marriage and move on unless you want to spend many many years being controlled by you mil, criticised by her, and used as s slave. Your husband it seems will never cut the apron strings and grow up and have a mind of his own. He will not stand up for you and is now being abusive as well.

God is so wise when he says 'The man shall leave his father and mother and join to his wife'. I doubt that he will ever do this as the older they get the more they will expect you to wait on them.
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Old 11th November 2015, 11:35 AM   #3
Raymond
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

I agree. A marriage becomes a seperate entity in itself not an add on to an existing family and therefore you both need to move out. It doesn't mean he neglects his family but it does mean your marriage isn't controlled by his parents. Obviously his parents do not understand your marital needs and seem to look on you as a servant. Part of this is because he doesn't see what a marriage should be. There is a control that he is exercising over you which isn't good. His duty is to love you not treat you as some kind of servant to his parents.

Until he sees it I wonder where the marriage can go as it is founded on faulty attitudes in my view. If he owns a house you should be in it together. Some of this seems to be cultural but I don't think it is a good aspect of the culture.

By the way it should be your house as well the same as the house I am in with my wife is ours even though I paid for it.
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Old 12th November 2015, 12:49 AM   #4
Aremu
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

I have discussed with him numerous times about letting go and starting our own life. Letting go of these old age customs and traditions which mean nothing to us. It's not him that is trying to hold on to these customs, he does in fact openly voice his dislike for these customs and traditions that his parents follow. He insists its because he doesn't want his mother to feel like he has deserted her. Bear in mind the house that he owns is actually two streets away from his mothers home.

I can see clearly that his mother is just emotionally blackmailing him and making him feel guilty. When I spoke about moving out MILs words were 'if you feel like I'm causing arguments between the two of you then fine you can move out, but then it will be clear to me that I have nobody and I'm all alone'. This is just clear emotional blackmail as her eldest daughter lives two doors away from her, her eldest son lives on the opposite street corner house and the middle son lives on the other street corner house. That's 4 members of the same family living in the same street. I understand that his mum puts him in a difficult position but if I can see that there is no basis to her argument and that she using emotional blackmail then why can't he see that. Or does he see it but is in denial or just refuses to acknowledge it.
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Old 12th November 2015, 12:58 AM   #5
Aremu
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

The first time we separated which was for two weeks, during this time we met and discussed our issues, H suggested that we each write down what our issues are with each other and the changes we are expecting. His list for me consisted of 3 points.

1) chores, cooking etc
2) not staying in your room all the time, making effort with mum.
3) communication issues we both need to work on.

That's the exact message he sent me word for word.

In relation to chores and cooking he said he wanted me to make a timetable. I did previously make a rota with his sisters. It never worked out as his sisters would put off their chores.

At one time MIL started shouting at me saying why haven't I done the dough for the chappatis. She made into a huge issue and started personally attacking me. I tried to stay respectful and simply said to her if the dough needs to be done all you need to do is ask me and I'll do. After all her shouting and ranting H asked MIL who's turn was it on the rota to do the dough, Her response was 'how am I supposed to know' He then called his sister downstairs and asked her to show the rota and lo and behold, turns out it was her turn.

Recently H has been pushing for a timetable, I told him what's the point when it doesn't even work and there is still conflict in the house. He replies with just make your own timetable of the chores you will do and the others can work around you of they want to. I refused many times as I'm fed up of this nonsense and I feel patronised. H just would not let it go, so I reluctantly agreed and went back to stay with him.

Once I was back he asked when I will make a timetable, to which I replied when you have time me, you and your mum will sit together and agree on a timetable. He said there's no need for that, 'you make the timetable, I will check it, print it and then I will 'sort' it with mum don't worry'. I protested but after much deliberation I realised he will not budge, he text me from work saying if you don't have the timetable done when I get home from work then watch what I do. So again I agreed and wrote and sent him a timetable.

Fast forward a few days, we went away for a night and came back on Sunday evening. I asked him if he would speak to his mum about the timetable as I want to start on it tomorrow. He said no I'm too tired to discuss it right now. I said please just do this for me as I want to cook tomorrow. He insisted no, to which I replied I'll start my timetable once you find the time to sort it with mum and print it off. His reply, you can start it tomorrow, no reason why you can't. You will start it tomorrow, end of. I simply replied no I won't because you gave me your word but now you're not sticking to it.

And that was it, he started, shouting flipping got verbally abusive, told me that he cant deal with me and the only way I could make this marriage work is if I kept my mouth shut. He then told me to back my bags and leave. And to make sure that I would leave he messaged my sister and asked her to come and pick me up as he doesn't want me there anymore. That was the last time we spoke. I packed and went to my parents home the next morning while he was at work and it's been 3 weeks since and we have had no contact whatsoever.

The past 3 weeks I've been feeling lost and like my life is in limbo. I've been contemplating contacting H but even if I do I have no idea what to say. Because honestly I am in no way ready to go back to his mothers house and I don't think I ever will be. I want to say to H that if you love me and want me back in your life then start making plans to move out, so we can start fresh, just me and you and nobody else and no timetable to think about. But deep down I know he won't agree. I guess I've been delaying contacting him as I'm scared that it may mean the end of our marriage. I guess I need that bit of push to just do it, so that I'm not just hanging here like a yo yo. I need to know where I stand with him.

If I do contact him I don't know whether I should speak to him as normal for a few days to see how he feels and what state of mind he is in... and then say what's on my mind. Or if I should just say it straight out in one go. Any advice please, I feel like I'm going crazy ???
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Old 12th November 2015, 05:20 AM   #6
chosen
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aremu View Post
I have discussed with him numerous times about letting go and starting our own life. Letting go of these old age customs and traditions which mean nothing to us. It's not him that is trying to hold on to these customs, he does in fact openly voice his dislike for these customs and traditions that his parents follow. He insists its because he doesn't want his mother to feel like he has deserted her. Bear in mind the house that he owns is actually two streets away from his mothers home.

I can see clearly that his mother is just emotionally blackmailing him and making him feel guilty. When I spoke about moving out MILs words were 'if you feel like I'm causing arguments between the two of you then fine you can move out, but then it will be clear to me that I have nobody and I'm all alone'. This is just clear emotional blackmail as her eldest daughter lives two doors away from her, her eldest son lives on the opposite street corner house and the middle son lives on the other street corner house. That's 4 members of the same family living in the same street. I understand that his mum puts him in a difficult position but if I can see that there is no basis to her argument and that she using emotional blackmail then why can't he see that. Or does he see it but is in denial or just refuses to acknowledge it.
emotional blackmail is what she is doing, how can she say she has no one when she has a husband 3 daughters in the same house!!!!Until your husband stands up to her appalling behavior of not wanting to let her son go, there is no hope for the marriage. She clearly hasnt let the other children go either which is why they all live so close and havent really broken away as they should. She sound like a very selfish lady whose family are all walking on eggshells around her not wanting to stand up to her. HOnestly the best thing you could both do is move far away, but I doubt that would happen.

Would he go to marriage counselling?
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Old 12th November 2015, 05:33 AM   #7
chosen
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aremu View Post
The first time we separated which was for two weeks, during this time we met and discussed our issues, H suggested that we each write down what our issues are with each other and the changes we are expecting. His list for me consisted of 3 points.

1) chores, cooking etc
2) not staying in your room all the time, making effort with mum.
3) communication issues we both need to work on.

That's the exact message he sent me word for word.

In relation to chores and cooking he said he wanted me to make a timetable. I did previously make a rota with his sisters. It never worked out as his sisters would put off their chores.

At one time MIL started shouting at me saying why haven't I done the dough for the chappatis. She made into a huge issue and started personally attacking me. I tried to stay respectful and simply said to her if the dough needs to be done all you need to do is ask me and I'll do. After all her shouting and ranting H asked MIL who's turn was it on the rota to do the dough, Her response was 'how am I supposed to know' He then called his sister downstairs and asked her to show the rota and lo and behold, turns out it was her turn.

Recently H has been pushing for a timetable, I told him what's the point when it doesn't even work and there is still conflict in the house. He replies with just make your own timetable of the chores you will do and the others can work around you of they want to. I refused many times as I'm fed up of this nonsense and I feel patronised. H just would not let it go, so I reluctantly agreed and went back to stay with him.

Once I was back he asked when I will make a timetable, to which I replied when you have time me, you and your mum will sit together and agree on a timetable. He said there's no need for that, 'you make the timetable, I will check it, print it and then I will 'sort' it with mum don't worry'. I protested but after much deliberation I realised he will not budge, he text me from work saying if you don't have the timetable done when I get home from work then watch what I do. So again I agreed and wrote and sent him a timetable.

Fast forward a few days, we went away for a night and came back on Sunday evening. I asked him if he would speak to his mum about the timetable as I want to start on it tomorrow. He said no I'm too tired to discuss it right now. I said please just do this for me as I want to cook tomorrow. He insisted no, to which I replied I'll start my timetable once you find the time to sort it with mum and print it off. His reply, you can start it tomorrow, no reason why you can't. You will start it tomorrow, end of. I simply replied no I won't because you gave me your word but now you're not sticking to it.

And that was it, he started, shouting flipping got verbally abusive, told me that he cant deal with me and the only way I could make this marriage work is if I kept my mouth shut. He then told me to back my bags and leave. And to make sure that I would leave he messaged my sister and asked her to come and pick me up as he doesn't want me there anymore. That was the last time we spoke. I packed and went to my parents home the next morning while he was at work and it's been 3 weeks since and we have had no contact whatsoever.

The past 3 weeks I've been feeling lost and like my life is in limbo. I've been contemplating contacting H but even if I do I have no idea what to say. Because honestly I am in no way ready to go back to his mothers house and I don't think I ever will be. I want to say to H that if you love me and want me back in your life then start making plans to move out, so we can start fresh, just me and you and nobody else and no timetable to think about. But deep down I know he won't agree. I guess I've been delaying contacting him as I'm scared that it may mean the end of our marriage. I guess I need that bit of push to just do it, so that I'm not just hanging here like a yo yo. I need to know where I stand with him.

If I do contact him I don't know whether I should speak to him as normal for a few days to see how he feels and what state of mind he is in... and then say what's on my mind. Or if I should just say it straight out in one go. Any advice please, I feel like I'm going crazy ???
I think you need to put it all down plainly in an email or letter. If he wants you to remain together and the marriage to survive it will need to be in the other house. I wouldnt agree to ever go back to living with his parents. Trouble is that he has now had his mums poison going into him for 3 weeks, running you down and manipulating him into staying with her. Basically she doesnt want her last son to move out and will do all she can to stop it even if that means ruining his marriage. You have a big fight on your hands and unless he will stand up to her it wont get better.

IT also sounds as if he has anger issues and was verging on the abusive towards you before, threatening you.
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Old 12th November 2015, 07:38 PM   #8
Raymond
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

I think the whole thing is a mess and you are caught in a situation where your boundaries are not respected. Although some of this may be culture orientated I don't think it is the best part of the culture.

I think he needs:

1. To have the ability to be emotionally attached to others yet without giving up a sense of self and one's freedom to be apart.

2. The ability to say appropriate nos to others without fear or loss of love.

His mother needs:

To have the ability to take appropriate nos from others without withdrawing emotionally.

He has to learn how to control his boundaries without taking on rejection from his mother. He is falling straight into the guilt trap as you point out. She should have cut the apron strings years ago so that he could develop as a confident individual. Yes one must respect their parents but this should not mean accepting their control. He is enabling this control to continue which will not do his parents much good so it is not really loving in the long run.

Whether he will be able to see through all this I don't know but there is more chance of him seeing this if you understand it and keep good boundaries.
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Old 14th November 2015, 12:33 AM   #9
Aremu
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

So I decided to email the H. I wrote down my feelings and emotions and also set some boundaries and made clear what I would and would not tolerate.

I finished the email with this - I just want you to be honest and tell me what you want and what you feel, not what your mum, dad or family or what anyone else feels and what they have to say. I don't want to hear any of that, I just want to understand you. And then we can take it from there and figure out whether we can work as a couple.

I also said that I'm not expecting a response straight away and he should read and understand the email and take however long he needs to reply.

He replied not long after I had sent the original email. His reply - 'so before we go any further. Are you saying to me if we don't move out the marriage is over?

I replied with I don't know, maybe, maybe not we that would be decided when we discuss matters further.

H - if I'm understanding this email correctly you've pretty much said you're out of this marriage if I don't move out. I'll sort the divorce out and I'll be in touch with your father soon.

Me - I've just answered your question. I don't know how much more clear I could be. Here's me thinking we could speak and get our feelings out in the open. I even said to you don't reply straight away, take your time and think about it but you're just getting hot headed and jumping to conclusions. The reason I emailed you rather than text/whatsapp is so that it doesn't become a back and forth, to me to you type of conversation. It's sounding like you don't want to sort anything out with me.

H - No you did not answer the question. Your not interested in anything I have to say you couldn't care less about me, what I feel or think. I've made it clear I'm not moving out yet.

Me - How can you say that I'm not interested in anything you have to say? Did I not just say in the email that I want to know how you feel and what you want? Can you please communicate with me? The way I have, just try and write down your feelings so that I can understand you. Please.

I'm currently waiting for a reply. But I think he has already made himself clear. I just cannot fathom how he is so willing to continue staying at his parents at the expense of his marriage? Does our marriage mean so little to him? I did not once mention the divorce word in my email although I said that I could not stay in a marriage where I feel like I am afterthought or second or third priority to my husband. How is it so easy for him to throw around the D word? I find myself questioning whether he has ever loved me. I've been calm and cool headed so far during our separation but I can't hold the tears back anymore...
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Old 14th November 2015, 04:05 AM   #10
Lindentree1
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

I'm so sorry. What a heartbreaking situation for you.

He is not going to leave that home at this time.

You have a choice--go back to him with resentment and prepare not to be treated well at his home, or accept that your marriage is over.

Unless some miracle occurs, your husband seems unwilling to compromise. His priorities seem clear.

I wish things were different for you. You deserve to have your feelings taken into consideration.

Please keep us updated. I hope I am wrong and your husband will come to his senses soon.
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Old 14th November 2015, 05:56 AM   #11
chosen
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Re: Recently separated, need unbiased insight

He says that he will not move out YET, but that mean he will not move out period. AS the mum gets older she will control him and cling onto him even more, I cant understand the total selfishness of a woman who has so many family members in and around her home, yet she would rather see her sons marriage end than allow him to actually grow up and be a man and independant.
Until he grows up and stands up for himself, nothing will change and to be honest he seems too cowardly to stand up to her. He has already gone back on past promises because his mummy didnt like what he wanted to do. What is he three years old???.

Sadly I cant see this marriage going anywhere, he is far too much under her thumb and command. If only the father would stand up to her, but he is also probably controlled by her as well.
I think you have had a lucky escape to be honest, and this will make you far more careful next time to find a man who is independent and mature and not still tied to his mothers apron strings.

he is putting you after his parents and that is wrong and it would only get worse if you had children. Stick to you guns, make sure he knows that moving out together is the only option or you will be stuck there forever, slaves to his mother and father.

Last edited by chosen; 14th November 2015 at 06:03 AM.
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