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Old 4th July 2014, 08:44 PM   #16
chosen
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

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Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post
Dear GELM,

You and I have kinship in dealing with a problem that is much more prevalent in our world than most know. If anger is part of your day on a regular basis, than being a victim can become a habit that is hard to break. I choose to find positive ways to keep myself happy and productive and part of that expression is through creative artworks in the things I do.

You may need to speak to a counselor on a regular basis to as not to bottle up emotions. You need to decide how you will handle life, if there are no changes, and the best that can happen is what already exists. I love my husband with passion and unconditionally. That is a right decision for me. He is a kind, generous man who does a lot for me in every way he can. It is no understatement to say I think God approves of my respect and blesses me in this marriage.
What you tell yourself on daily basis will be fact. If you tell yourself you are unhappy and depressed, for sure you will be miserable.

Your love story is never finished until you choose to end it.
BTW..I would never expose my husband to the humiliation to be "talked at" over this problem by members of a church!

These emotional dysfunctions come from deep psychological wounds or problems. Private counseling by a licensed doctor of Psychiatry is no sure cure for such trauma that can cause a person to "shut down" and "shut off" from others! If porn use is involved, that is as addictive as any drug injected or imbibed for some. If life is better for you alone, than divorce is an option.
If you are a Christian, having an accountability partner is not being 'talked at', its having friends who can challenge each other, pray for each other and support each other. Withholding sex is just as bad as any other sexual sin and can destroy a marriage just as any other sexual sin can. Even if it doesnt end, its only half a marriage with one spouse being so selfish as to not even bother to try and get help for what they are doing to their partner.
It sometimes takes being challenged by someone outside the marriage for the person to actually act and begin to seek help to sort their issues out. If we are part of a church family, then gently challenging someone for their sin is perfectly Biblical. God tells us not to withhold sex.
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Old 7th July 2014, 06:52 AM   #17
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

Church friends do not have the education or licensing to practice psychiatry. That would be no church we would be a member of for sure. When one seeks help, they should not be ambushed or "confronted" or shamed to "sort out" emotional issues. Counseling in such matters is done by professionals for a positive result, else a troubled person can be more in conflict.

There is NO gentle challenge to confront a man about his performance in his marital bed. That approach would never be done with my permission. I think few here agree with your idea on approach.
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Old 7th July 2014, 08:11 AM   #18
chosen
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

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Church friends do not have the education or licensing to practice psychiatry. That would be no church we would be a member of for sure. When one seeks help, they should not be ambushed or "confronted" or shamed to "sort out" emotional issues. Counseling in such matters is done by professionals for a positive result, else a troubled person can be more in conflict.

There is NO gentle challenge to confront a man about his performance in his marital bed. That approach would never be done with my permission. I think few here agree with your idea on approach.

Its completely biblical. Most people in all the churches I have been to do have prayer partners or accountability partners who will pray for each other, gently challenge each other if needed, and support each other with issues and problems. This should hopefully show the person that what they are doing is wrong, and that they need to seek advise and help to stop whatever it is they are doing. Many such issues can be sorted through prayer ministry or counselling, in confidence. We are supposed to be a church family who are there for each other, and most people have one or two close friends in our church who we can go to with issues such as this. If we cant then I would suggest finding another church that is more friendly and supportive. Another idea is for the couple to go to another trusted mature Christian couple to talk this through, and get support and advise and prayer together for a period of time. Ignoring something so important never helps. Its like burying your head in the sand.

Many cases I have heard about where one partner withholds sex have been nothing to do with needing professional help, they have been due to selfishness, or disobedience, or low testosterone, or due to porn use or some other fairly easily sorted reason. Until they make some effort to deal with it, nothing will ever change will it.

Just to go on year after year with no attempt to get any sort of solution or advise is extremely selfish. I would never do that to my husband ever. I know how important sex is to him and to keeping us strong together in marriage. Plus the fact that its disobeying Gods clear instruction.

Last edited by chosen; 7th July 2014 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 7th July 2014, 05:00 PM   #19
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

My continuance as a member of this forum is not about any past issues in my marriage. After 34 years married we have been survivors of some difficult issues. My husband had multiple surgeries for Cancer with chemo/radiation treatments four years. He has been in remission for the last years and we hold our breath when he gets his checkups. Before that, I manage a serious heart dysfunction which kept me in one hospital or another for treatment and gives a couple cardiologists a chance to practice. I had a break through technique done which lasted a few minutes to repair the issues. After months of planning with a trip to a famous heart center for this, it was a disappointment that procedure failed to work in my case. So, life is adventurous. My husband and I have endured challenges that would break many.

I survived some terrible issues from childhood along with a harrowing criminal abduction in my mid 20's. Lucky me, I had help all the way! So life experience, along with two college degrees in psychology/mental health, and time working in the field, gives me some understanding of emotional issues. You ask if I am Christian? I have stated many times I am Christian. Personally, I don't presume that others beliefs here is my business. I speak with a few who used to be contributing members here, but postings became so abrasive as to make them feel unwelcome. I guess that happens when someone feels entitled or chosen, to critique others, which exceeds ones' educational capacity. The church you describe sounds more like a cult, than a Christian church that promotes healthy lives. Your choice, not mine.

I would appreciate if you bestow your expertise with others. I will muddle along with my life. You have your 7 years married, this time, to draw from and some good books you read and such.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 8th July 2014 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 7th July 2014, 06:41 PM   #20
chosen
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

Umm where did I ask if you were a Christian?

Its 9 years very happily married, and 25 years previously married, so lots of experience there, as well as 9 years as a mod on a very busy on line Christian forum where we get many many people coming with marriage and relationship issues, many of whom have been greatly helped and supported by their time there.
In the last 18 months alone God has used me to get the children from 2 separate families(5 in all) away from parents who were physically emotionally and sexually abusing them. I still help, support and encourage them as much as I can. Its so encouraging and and special to be used in this way, and no degrees are needed when He does this, only a willingness to be used and to be led by Him.
All of the things we go through help us to be wise and perceptive in situations that we then come across. Its very encouraging to see How God does use our life experiences to help others, and we don't need secular qualifications to do that.

I too have sadly had loads and loads of horrible and traumatic events happen in my life, as have my husband and children. We also had many outside issues to deal with in the first 2 years of our marriage, probably more than most people have in 20-30 years of theirs. That's why we all need the help and support of others to keep us on the right track when we are way off course or in difficulties. To just keep it all hidden under the carpet never solves anything. None of us are meant to be an island alone, that why we need the church family and friends.

I really hope that one of my friends would care enough about me to challenge me and enable me to really think hard about what I was doing if I were causing my husband such pain and rejection as is the case for the OP. If a person is never questioned or challenged, they will simply carry on the same way, and no one is helped. They may prefer that of course, because then they dont have to make any changes or get out of their comfort zone, but its very selfish.

The churches I have been to in my life are/were loving, caring church families who want to encourage and support and help others in their lives, and with their problems and issues that come up, and this includes when we get caught in sin. Its not loving to ignore sin, but to lovingly challenge it just as God does with us. The Bible says that God disciplines those He loves, the last thing He wants is for us to stay wallowing in our sins and disobedience and wrong choices. He cares about us far too much for that. He offers help, but we have to decide if we will take it. Its our decision. Surely this is what a good family is supposed to be like, and its how God designed it. I am actually a very independent person, so find it hard to ask for advise or help, but its a good lesson to learn.

Last edited by chosen; 7th July 2014 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 8th July 2014, 03:28 AM   #21
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

So nine years it is. So all this discussion is about what? Those who keep their issues "hidden" don't post on a forum and talk about it. I spent some months being counselor on a Suicide crisis line, the night shift. One can never think they have problems, if they hear some of these calls.

I didn't ask for advice, I posted to GELM.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 8th July 2014 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 8th July 2014, 09:22 AM   #22
Raymond
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

I think the husband in this case is in a different position than yours 1okgal.

If he is a christian and part of the fellowship then there is the possibility of him to look at the problem of witholding sex, as the scripture does teach that we should not defraud the other of sex.

Personally I think there are other problems that are coming into play as well, maybe from his childhood, but looking into why he is witholding sex could be the key to getting healed perhaps. One cannot force it I know, but being in that fellowship atmosphere could potentially provide answers to the problem. If he is wanting to follow God just knowing that his practice is unscriptural could have an effect.

We have a highly qualified psychiatrist in our fellowship as it happens that seems to be becoming a life coach with a team but she always gives far more credence to the word of God as that is her faith. She does see however how the new discoveries of how the brain works actually uphold the word of God.
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Old 8th July 2014, 03:57 PM   #23
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

Dear Raymond...

The first stop for us as a couple, I asked my husband to go for pastoral counseling at our church. After two visits, he was livid, and no longer would attend the church. Confrontation pushed him from any church. We met with one counselor but it was a mistake for us. Next I made appointments for us singly, and a couple, with a psychiatrist. My husband consented to meet with him. I ended the many sessions after I could see my husband was comfortable with the "good buddy" meetings, which were more about his work and accomplishments, than any concerns of mine. One of us had a problem, and one did not.

That was years ago, so counseling can work for some, not for others. A lot of reading and dealing with the subject convinces me that one does not choose to shut down, but the choice does turn to pleasures, excluding a partner. I believe childhood teachings and events have a big factor in such avoidance. I love my husband and take him on any terms. He is a 97% good man and very good to me. He is generous in all his dealings with me. We don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

What is most important to me these years is my business and our health. I share what I have learned along the way with a few here.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 8th July 2014 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 9th July 2014, 09:00 AM   #24
Raymond
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

I don't know what happened 1okgal so I can't judge. Maybe the counselor was very unwise and stated law instead of balancing things with care and love. I think we have to pick safe people if we are going to share deeply about our problems. It might not necessarily be the pastor. On the other hand some might not like the truth no matter how gentle and lovingly it is put. It still comes down to a personal choice in the end.

Your attitude is to be commended in that you have grieved the loss and moved on and have saved that which could be saved. This doesn't make what has happened right of course but you have covered it with love and have forgiven and have saved your marriage, apart from the 5% of course. Others might not be able to do that.
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Old 9th July 2014, 05:43 PM   #25
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

Dear Raymond..

How ecstatic life might have been in this marriage with the whole package! My husband was quite perfect the first 12 years, though there were hints of inner issues. You are a kind man to share yourself with others and a mans' viewpoint here is so helpful. It is true....I have thin skin in talking about this area. I have great love for my husband and respect the attractive, cultured and intelligent man who is my center point.

What went wrong here is likely his Christianity was mouth service to please his wife more than his deep held belief. He extends himself in every way to do things for me from cooking delights to the 6 carat Diamond ring he bought me for a 34th anniversary. As a Marine Engineer, he earns a great deal of money for his long months of separation overseas and hard work he does in his specialty. He had a good year now after serious health problems overcome. His past colon cancer battle would bury most couples in debt. Lucky we have great health insurance and I had put aside significant savings, so we came away intact. He will still smoke some, well away from me, but I get upset at that choice. Our daughter says I am not his policeman, so let it be. I told her she does not have to bury a husband. That issue is his choice as well, not mine.

There is that issue again, right? We can not control another and need to know how to accept that, which we can't change. Where is that serenity when we need it!

Last edited by 1aokgal; 9th July 2014 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 9th July 2014, 08:54 PM   #26
Raymond
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

What went wrong here is likely his Christianity was mouth service to please his wife more than his deep held belief.

There could be some truth in that statement.

Your great strength is in accepting that which you cannot change. You have found a level of happiness in the situation which is a victory of sorts. You have a better life than most it seems. Had he had a deep faith things could have been worked on. As it is you have done the best you can do. What more could one ask? We cannot change our spouses, but a loving interest in the health of our loved ones should be able to be expressed.
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Old 9th July 2014, 11:31 PM   #27
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

Dear Chosen...

I commend you for the sharing you do, both here and elsewhere.

We get no money back guarantee when we commit our lives to the man we love. My husband took on my 3.5 year old and instilled interest in her for science, car repairs, and some home renovations or rebuilding. She would never have gotten that talent from me. She is here on her days off, as they rebuild our Florida room this week. She installed the overhead fan on her own and replaced the wood for the ceiling with a nail gun as he helped. In her own home, she built her lovely deck, planter boxes and upgraded one bathroom with all the fixtures. I would have taught her how to sew.

I think she got a deal with this man. She has visited with her father a few times in Texas, and the relationship is cordial, but not close as she is to my husband. They are buddies and he was not married before...so no complications there! I know some of your history, and as you say, we form a lot of opinions from what we have experienced. I hope things go well for you and yours.
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Old 9th July 2014, 11:31 PM   #28
chosen
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

Just wanted to pose some questions.
If I wasnt willing to try and change and get help for something serious that was deeply troubling and affecting my husband and damaging my marriage, what does that say about my love for my husband and commitment to his well being? It says to me that I am more important than him, that I dont really care enough about his needs or well being to actually seek help or make that effort, and that I would rather bury my head in the sand than actually put their needs and happiness before my own.

We cant force our spouses to change as you said Raymond, but we can help each other to see what needs to be changed and have some boundaries as to what we will or wont accept. We can communicate our deepest needs and expectations to them, and strongly request some sort of couples counselling/ prayer/ministry/therapy to deal with it. Or ask that they get some sort of counselling/therapy/medical help/prayer for themselves and their problems.

God is very wise, and when He says that we must NOT deprive each other of sex, that's what He means. He doesn't give 'cop out' clauses, or reasons why we ourselves dont need to obey him in this, He simply says that we must not do it. Even someone who is disabled or ill can usually be physically affectionate to some extent, and at least do something to ensure that their partner isn't left frustrated.

I feel for those spouses, men and women,who are treated in this way. There is no excuse as far as I can see. There is SOO much help out there now for people who have medical/emotional sexual issues, unlike say 30-50 years ago.

Last edited by chosen; 9th July 2014 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 9th July 2014, 11:33 PM   #29
chosen
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

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Dear Chosen...

I commend you for the sharing you do, both here and elsewhere.

We get no money back guarantee when we commit our lives to the man we love. My husband took on my 3.5 year old and instilled interest in her for science, car repairs, and some home renovations or rebuilding. She would never have gotten that talent from me. She is here on her days off, as they rebuild our Florida room. She installed the overhead fan and replaced the wood for the ceiling with a nail gun as he helped. In her home, she built her deck and planter boxes and upgraded on bathroom and all the fixtures. I would have taught her how to sew.

I think she got a deal with this man. She has visited with her father a few times in Texas, and the relationship is cordial, but not close as she is to my husband. They are buddies and he was not married before...so no complications there! I know some of your history, and as you say, we form a lot of opinions from what we have experienced. I hope things go well for you and yours.
yes my kids too have a brilliant step dad. They love and respect him and never see their own dad. so he IS their dad as far as they are concerned, even though they were all young adults when we met.
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Old 9th July 2014, 11:59 PM   #30
chosen
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Re: Am i sinning and how do i stop?

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I think the husband in this case is in a different position than yours 1okgal.

If he is a christian and part of the fellowship then there is the possibility of him to look at the problem of witholding sex, as the scripture does teach that we should not defraud the other of sex.

Personally I think there are other problems that are coming into play as well, maybe from his childhood, but looking into why he is witholding sex could be the key to getting healed perhaps. One cannot force it I know, but being in that fellowship atmosphere could potentially provide answers to the problem. If he is wanting to follow God just knowing that his practice is unscriptural could have an effect.

We have a highly qualified psychiatrist in our fellowship as it happens that seems to be becoming a life coach with a team but she always gives far more credence to the word of God as that is her faith. She does see however how the new discoveries of how the brain works actually uphold the word of God.
I agree with this. If we follow Jesus, then we know that when He says something its always for our good and well being. We disobey Him at our peril.

I dont see why we cant make a decision to never refuse sex with our spouse. We dont have to 'feel' like it to do it. We can do it for their sake.
My husband had a very disappointing sex life with his first wife, who controlled every aspect of it. She said if and when they would have sex. It was never spontanious, and if she wasnt pleased with him about something, there was no sex for ages. He was rejected time and time again, and eventually he sort of gave up and was even finding it hard to 'perform' when he WAS allowed it.

When we married, he couldnt even say the 's' word to me for fear of rejection, and used to go in a very round about way to try and ascertain if I was at all interested. Because of all this, I made a decision at the beginning of our marriage that I would never ever reject him sexually and so far I havent.

Gradually over the first few years, he began to see that he wasnt going to be rejected any more, and got more confident about asking more directly and now he knows that I will never do that, and he doesnt do that to me either.

I am trying to say that we can decide ourselves in our own minds to do all we can to meet our spouses needs in this area and others, regardless of what we ourselves want or feel. If we have issues do to with childhood sexual abuse or similar, then there is so much help out there. For us as Christians there are places we can go to get good healing prayer/ministry which is actually the only thing that actually gets to the roots of any problems. Counselling can help to a point, but it only goes so far.
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