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Old 4th April 2010, 09:57 AM   #1
taz
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Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Hello all. Just saying hi, and letting you know there's someone else in the same boat a lot of you seem to be in. I'm 36, my wife is 41, and we have two kids aged 8 and 5. Here's my background...

I met my wife 10 years ago and we instantly hit it off. Since day one we had the kind of best friend relationship where we were like a couple of kids - it always was a real high on life kind of feeling, and I'm not sure I'm ever going to find that again. I think I was really lucky to find her.

Anyway, fast forward 6 excellent years and we'd already bought and sold a couple of houses, had our son, and were pregnant with our daughter. Because neither of us were living near our families, we decided to move nearer to mine before our girl was born for extra support with the kids.

So, we sold the house we were in and bought another more expensive one based on the (really, really good) money I was making at the time. Unfortunately, the day before we moved, the company I had my primary work agreement with (I was self-employed freelance) pulled the plug on my contract without notice which reduced my income to virtually zero overnight, leaving us with a huge mortgage and little income.

Shortly afterwards, we had our daughter, shortly after that, my wife's (then my fiancee) dad was diagnosed with very late stage terminal cancer, and shortly after that we decided to bring our wedding forward so her dad could be there to see it before he died.

A few months later, we'd reached the stage where bankruptcy and house possession were becoming imminent and after a minor argument one day (over her chatting to younger men online), my wife decided that she was moving out. Her reasons didn't make a great deal of sense and the only one I can seem to remember her yelling was 'you and the kids are just always there!". At the time, she'd been retreating into her laptop for a while and was really pulling away from me and the kids.

So, she moved into a rented room in a shared house a couple of miles away, leaving the kids (then aged 1 and 4) with me, and the stress and anxiety that landed me with was unbelievable, and having two young kids at home scuppered my chances of building my freelance business back up. However, she did come back to the house at least a couple of evenings every week and a lot of weekends (often looking pretty depressed) to the point where she moved back in about 5 months later with the plan that we'd all start again and try to build a better newer life.

During that time, she'd also applied for council houses and was offered one which we all moved into at the start of 2007. Shortly after that, the house we'd bought was repossessed and I went personally bankrupt mid-2007 over our joint debts with the plan that she would do the same to clear her portion of the joint debt.

However, she never did much to deal with this debt and the letters kept coming through the door - and remained mostly unopened. This got me down a little as I'd already had the stress and anxiety of going bankrupt, yet the debt was still there.

Since she left the first time, I'd fallen into the role of primary carer for the kids because of my flexibility as self-employed and continued to do all the school runs, packed lunches, uniforms, cooking (for the kids then for me and my wife every night), plus all child care over school holidays, and about 75% off all the housework (laundry, cleaning, etc), plus trying to work at my business at the same time.

She had - and still does have - quite a good job.

Now, I was aware that my frame of mind was changing in that I wasn't especially happy working from home all the time because of the isolation from people and the TINY council house we were living in wasn't in the greatest of areas, either (the house we'd just had repossessed was a 5 bed place by the beach!) so I think that also got me down as much as the persistent debt did, and during 2009 I was taking steps to put this right - starting with taking steps to combine my business with working a couple of days a week in a client's office which should actually begin in the next couple of weeks. When it starts, that's going to make a huge difference to my overall frame of mind, and also to my life as a whole.

However, while all this was going on with me, I think my wife was also sinking into a depression - or rather the depression I suspect she'd had since the first time she left was getting worse. She was spending money on trying to make the house look nice (and it did inside), yet it was still in a horrible area. She was still having trouble dealing with the kids (not much patience with them), and she was beginning to retreat into her laptop again - which our friends were also noticing.

The thing with my wife was that externally and in front of friends/work colleagues/etc she was always bubbly, lively, outgoing, confident, etc. While at home with me and the kids, she just withdrew. I used to ask her to put the computer down on lots of evenings so we could spend time together and it rarely happened. Thing is, we also used to go out at least a couple of times a month to gigs/for a drink and over the last three years we've been on holiday a few times, bought a camper van and used that loads of times, been to music festivals round the UK and in Spain, etc, and apart from the normal arguments that couples do, there really hasn't been anything else going on.

All I ever wanted was to sit on the sofa with my wife a couple of nights a week and talk and have a bottle of wine, and watch a film, etc, etc, like we always used to do. I used to hate looking over at her, yet all I could see was the back of the laptop screen.

Anyway, mid January 2010 we had another minor argument (I asked her if she minded me taking the kids over to my parents' place overnight one evening because my brother and his kids would be there and we rarely get to meet up. She bizarrely blew up, saying "right, you have your life then and I'll have mine!") and since then we've been split.

I'm absolutely stunned, confused, devastated, and utterly broken.

She's never talked to me in any detail about why she's done this, apart from hurling a bunch of reasons at me including that she hates the house, that she can't stand the kids' behaviour, that she wants her life back, she's never loved me, etc, etc - none of which make a lot of sense to me.

To this day, I, both of our families, and most of our friends are completely shocked about this and still can't quite believe it.

Six weeks after the split she moved out of 'her' council house into a private rental flat and I decided to get out of that house with the kids too, as it had never been 'my' house and it was in an awful place anyway. I'm back at the beach again.

Now, the kids are with me three weekday nights, with her 2 weekday nights, and we do alternate weekends. And it all feels so absolutely wrong on every single level. The nights when the kids are at home with me, I die inside over and over again, but keep it together for their sakes. The nights when neither the kids or my wife are with me are close to being unbearable.

This whole thing also turned quite nasty for a couple of weeks shortly after the split with both of us saying and doing some hurtful things in reaction to what was going on, rather than actually meaning it all. Although one morning about 3 weeks ago she was dropping the kids with me and she was actually quite tearful saying that she didn't want things to be horrible and she didn't want to go through solicitors, and that we used to be best friends, etc, etc.

She's also on a couple of occasions tried to be friendly over email like we used to do (during the day, we'd have 20-30 strong email conversations 2 or 3 times a day every day, she'd also phone me from work every day and tell me she loved me, etc, etc.... we really were that close!) but I've kinda not really responded to any of this, for my own strength.

However, now we rarely speak - just a quick hello when we exchange the kids. I haven't actually initiated any contact whatsoever until now, because after 5 weeks of doing this, I'm realising that it's absolutely tearing me to shreds. I can see it in her face that she's not liking it much either.

Worst of all, the kids hate it.

Still, throughout all of this I've got this gut feeling that she is still the only one for me and that we all still have a future together but I'm not sure how - or whether - to do anything about it.

So I wrote her a letter a couple of days ago apologising for whatever part I played in all of this, and about how I understand that my frame of mind was in the wrong place with work/career/business and that the ongoing debt on her side didn't help matters, etc, etc, and I've told her that I'm sorting my part of it out for my own sake (I should actually be starting work in this client's office within the next couple of weeks, although I didn't tell her this explicitly - I think she'll be surprised to discover it).

I also said in the letter that somewhere, sometime down the line I believe we all have a future together, but first we need to start learning how to go back to being best friends again like we always used to be. I also suggested to her what I think we need to do in order to get things back on track - sorting out the debt, me sorting out my work/career, etc, etc... and asked her if there was a chance she could give us some time to try this.

The letter is literally the only contact I've in intiated in the last few weeks.

I haven't had a reply from her yet (I'm not even convinced that I should expect one) but then it has been a holiday weekend and she was taking the kids away to visit friends of ours for the weekend, too. Maybe she'll reply when she gets back?

Now my head is telling me to move on. My family and friends are telling me to forget about her and move on. But my heart just wont let go of my gorgeous, sexy wife, my best friend, my kids, my family, and the amazing dreams we had for us all.

My plan is to get my head down with this new work and hope that she notices me doing that, to carry on being superdad to my kids and to keep them as happy as I am able, and then maybe in the next week or so I may invite her out for a meal with me and the kids, and hopefully just try to open the doors to us being able to talk again.

But at the end of the day, I'm slowly going to pieces and I really just don't know what to do.

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Old 4th April 2010, 11:12 AM   #2
georgie
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

I'm so sorry to read your story. It is tough, you've both been under immense pressure and depression is no doubt a factor.
At this point the key thing is to look after your own health both mental and physical. This series of events will have taken it's toll on you, so you need to monitor. I would suggest that you could benefit form a visit to your GP and maybe a referral to a counsellor to help you talk through and process all of these things that have happened.
Your wife appears to have been detached for quite some time before she left physically. I can understand your speculation that she is depressed, but ultimately if she does not chose to help herself there is not much you can do about that. You can only ensure that you remain healthy and are there for your kids and yourself!
I know its all overwhelming right now, but you have come to the right place. You will get support here, and that is a start xxx
Thinking of you.
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Old 4th April 2010, 12:27 PM   #3
taz
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Yep, I've seen a GP and have a counselling referral. Just waiting for the appointment to come through.

I was tougher regarding all this a few weeks ago, but the reality of it all now starting to sink in, plus the fact that I haven't seen my kids at all during this long weekend where the weather's been great and ordinarily we'd have all done something fun together is really killing me.

Something I forgot to mention is that when she moved out, she didn't really want to take much that reminded her of her 'old' life - no furniture or anything like that, and she didn't even seem to want any of the hundreds of pictures or any of the videos of us and the kids. All she took really are her clothes and toiletries and a few other things. None of the rest seemed to matter to her. She also ditched a lot of mutual friends at the same time, and they're all quite upset by her behaviour, too.

It's literally like she's wanting to start her life from scratch - and all I'm learning from that is that I must have been some kind of vile monster for someone to want to suddenly cut me and everything we had out of their life. Like there must be something seriously wrong with me, right? But I sit and think about this day and night, and I can't ever find an answer.

I guess she knows that I'm here and willing to talk, right? There's no point reminding her of that over and over again. It's just a case of waiting to see whether she actually wants to make a move.

Thanks.


Last edited by taz; 4th April 2010 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 4th April 2010, 01:28 PM   #4
UpandDown
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Hi Taz

I was so sorry to read of your situation. Your wife sounds really similar to my husband in lots of ways with the exception that he doesn't complain about the children but he does say he has a shorter fuse with them than he would like.

It definitely does sound like your wife might have quite serious depression problems (maybe undiagnosed postnatal depression, exacerbated by the trauma of the cancer and bankruptcy?) I totally agree though, until she admits she has a problem and gets help for herself, it will be difficult to make things better.

I am in exactly the same place as you with my husband saying things that don't make any sense. When I try and get to the bottom of things he gets confused and gets cross, which tells me it's more his depression than anything talking. But other times he can be very rational as he explains to me how he never loved me and we are totally incompatible (when I know that's not true as we have been extremely close for most of our ten years together.)

It's good that your wife has held on to her job - my husband has had many job changes. We are about to go through personal bankruptcy so any advice on that you could give me would be very welcome!! I'm a sole trader so I don't know if my business will be affected....

Anyway, I digress! I feel for you as I too feel like I'm dying inside when I'm looking after the kids. This weekend I have my 2 year old and my hisband has gone up to stay with his parents 5 hours away in Blackpool with the 1 year old. It feels awful to be seperated from the baby and from him, we should be together as a family. I had the chance of being alone instead but there are no good options are there?

I want to congratulate you on how you are handling yourself in this situation. The fact that you continue to provide for you family and most importantly to be the stable influence for your kids keeping the family home going, shows a lot about what kind of man you are and shows a lot of strength of character. It's great that you're getting the counselling though. You really need to take care of yourself. That's basically been the main thing i've learnt through this.

According to wise people on here, we will get through this!

One more thing that has just occurred to me. A few years ago I went through a short period of depression (before we had kids) and I remember very strongly feeling the need to run away. I didn't because on some level I knew I would take my problems with me, so I kept expressing it but accepted that it was me not wanting to face up to the depression.

Luckily I got some very good help and completely recovered, but I was reminded of it when I read about your wife saying you and the kids were always there. It sounds exactly like what I would have said at that time in my life if I'd had kids! It's really important you continue to protect your kids as much as you can from taking her vibes on board, but really the only thing you can do is to be the calm, stable one your kids can cling on to.

The other thing that I wanted to say to you was don't apologise too much. You probably haven't done anything much wrong. It's a two way thing in any relationship. If your wife is anything like my husband, you might be getting a lot of blame shifted on to you and a lot of negative things said to you. If you suspect the depression is present, I think we have to take a lot of it with a pinch of salt - though it's easier said than done!!

Enough of my waffle. I hope today has been okay and you have lots of lovely supportive people to spend time with.

Love Kathryn
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Old 5th April 2010, 10:25 AM   #5
taz
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Hi Kathryn - thanks for taking the time to reply. )

Yep, we're in similar spots, eh? Jeez - not that it helps much, but I know exactly what you're going through and could probably describe how you're feeling to the letter.

I haven't actually talked much to my wife at all since the middle of January when this happened, but the few brief times we have talked, she's either gotten mad that I have a clear argument why this should not be happening, or has been completely rational-sounding saying that she never loved me and we have nothing in common. If that had been the case, we wouldn't have been together for 10 years and my view/memories of the relationship (a view which hasn't really changed since we met) wouldn't have been so good. Ugh.

To be honest, I'm at a complete loss as to what to do. I am surviving with the help of my friends and family (and her family, too!?), but only *just* surviving. All I want is for her to talk to me and just to realise that the way she's gone about this is just odd, and that instead of it being something that's 'brave' as she called it, it's just hurting a whole bunch of people - including our kids.

Plus, I still can't help feel responsible for all of this and 99% if my time is spent racking my brains to work out where I went wrong and what I've done to drive her away like this, but I just can't come up with an answer.

Your description of wanting to run sounds very like what my wife was going through. Only I'm pretty sure that I'd never be able to approach the subject of depression with her as she'd never agree with me - but then that would mean her opening up communication to me again. Maybe in time?


Yep, I had a nice day yesterday with close friends of ours (who incidentally she also suddenly cut out of her life) who have kids the same ages as ours. Big Easter dinner, lots of vino, and retro board games. Would have been nicer if my wife and kids had been there, too, though - like they would probably have been on a normal holiday weekend.

How was your weekend?

B
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:53 AM   #6
UpandDown
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Hi Taz

Not having a particularly good time here! Am potty training the 2 year old (started on Thursday) and as I imagine you probably remember, it's hard work. Also missing the 1 year old and hubby of course. I imagine holiday times will be the absolute worst as their absence be so obvious.

Has your wife agreed to counselling or anything?
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Old 5th April 2010, 12:25 PM   #7
taz
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Yeah, tough here too. It's just not right being apart, is it? It's not just about 'missing them' either - I used to 'miss them' when my wife went out for the day with the kids.

This is an ache - no, it's actually a bona fide pain - and I'm guessing you're getting that, too, especially seeing as your baby isn't there with you.

I just can't imagine what went through my wife's mind when she left the first time leaving a 1yo and a 4yo behind with me. I could never, ever have done that.

Yeah, I remember potty training being hard work - you get a big kick out of it at the end when they 'get' it, though! Good luck!

As for counselling, I've never even had the opportunity to bring it up with her. She'll not listen to her family, to friends, to anyone really - especially not to me. All she said is that she's made her decision and she's not going to change her mind. That was all a couple of months ago, though, and like I said apart from a quick couple of words at kid handover time, there's been no further talking between us.

I think she could do with talking to someone, her family do, my family do, even the GP I saw suggested that she should go speak to someone as this really isn't a healthy thing to do.

Still, I think the only way I'd ever find out if she had regrets or feelings that she's made a mistake, or thoughts about fixing this, then it would be when/if she comes to me. I think that's unlikely though... no matter how much hope I hold on to.

I just find it difficult to understand how I lost my wife, my kids for half the week, my dreams, and a big chunk of my future... literally overnight. And with no real warning that something this serious and this devastating would happen.

It's like I never really knew her.

*sigh*

Has your husband agreed to counselling?
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Old 5th April 2010, 10:54 PM   #8
UpandDown
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Yes, he's agreed to it but it's been a disaster so far. They're probably not going to take us past the assessment stage - I think they think we're a lost cause!

My husband suffers from depression but is also very very plausible when he talks. He can make it sound like he is tellling you his deepest truth but he isn't. He has told me he's done it to counsellors in the past.

He needs to grow up big time.

I had an assessment on my own last Thursday, he has one next Thursday then the Thursday after we go together and hear the verdict. My H has already told me he doesn't think/want the counselling to work as he believes we are better apart and in time I will see that. We have decided to make a decision about formal seperation in two weeks.

If there is any hope at all though I'll be pushing to continue with it. I want to look back and know I did everything I could to save my marriage. I don't have a lot of hope though!

The main conclusion I have come to is, when people are mentally unhealthy they have a very strange perception of the world. It's good that your wife's family are supporting you. My In-Laws seem oblivious although he has supposedly told them everything!!!

How is work going now? Have you been able to get your business up and running?

x
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:18 PM   #9
taz
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Ah... tough on the counselling. Sorry to hear that. Fingers crossed for you.

My wife said the first time she 'left' that she wouldn't go to marriage counselling because she's done it before (the first time she married when she was pretty young) and apparently she just sat there and "told them what they wanted to hear" (rather than telling them anything that was actually constructive, then... jeez!).

I've not even had the chance to suggest it to her this time... although her mum is coming to stay in a couple of weeks and wants to have a chat with me, so I'll suggest it to her. She *might* be able to get through to my wife.

I just want to see a glimmer of hope, too. I'm exhausting myself trying to search for it all by myself, and I think the only time I'll be able to kick back and relax is if I see it. Sounds daft after what's gone on, but I'm just not ready to give up on my family yet.

My work was always ticking over - just been tough recently because of the way things are with the economy and all that. Not really much I could do about it, but I think the fact that I didn't make as much money over the last year or two as I've previously been able to annoyed my wife and I think that contributed to all this, too. It's that kind of thing that sometimes makes me think I'd be better off without her, but then I can't seem to believe that someone I've been with for 10 years and 2 kids can be that shallow.

I've given myself a right headache today mulling all this over...

Ack.
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:25 PM   #10
UpandDown
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Where do you live??? (Unless it's a secret!)

Your wife really does sound like my husband. How strange. I just can't see the point of going to counsellors and wasting everybody's time telling them what they want to hear!

You might be right about the money thing, but not because she's shallow, just because it is stressful.

My H and I are at a very stressful point in our lives. We have 2 small children, he hates his job, and we are on the verge of personal bankruptcy. We were both serously sleep deprived prior to this as our boys are ill a lot and they then wake up in the night. They don't want anything though so it's very fruastrating. We can't even do the thing you're not supposed to do and bring them into our bed as they don't like it!

My point it, all the stress you've had in your lives must add to it all.

How are your kiddies today? Are they still with her?
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:46 PM   #11
taz
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Ha... no secret! I'm up in the North East - my wife's family are in Hertfordshire.

Yeah, the thing is I can totally understand the stress thing in terms of money (or lack of it) and a lot of people are in the same boat. Plus having two kids isn't easy, etc, etc... I totally understand all that and I was feeling the stress, too. The thing I don't understand is why someone would just jump out and leave their partner deep in it, which is what she's basically done.

This sounds totally cliched but the for better or worse stuff is something I lived by. If we didn't have a penny to our name and had to live in a cardboard box in the street, I'd have stuck by us all.

My work was actually on the up, and if my wife had stuck around, she'd have seen that I have a meeting tomorrow morning which should prove to be pretty lucrative and bring in a lot of regular & steady work, while also getting me out of the house a couple days a week which will do me and my frame of mind a ton of good.

Hopefully, she'll notice these changes soon and it might make her think - if it's not too late. I'm also thinking about asking her if she wants to go out for tea somewhere with me and the kids in the next week or two - just something fun. Not sure how she'd react though... this'll be the first time we'll have done something like this in over 2 months. Eek.

Yep, the kiddos are still with her - she's dropping them off early tomorrow morning - will see what kind of mood she's in then.

Looking forward to having them back though, and they'll be here until next Monday morning so that's great! I don't know how she feels about not seeing them for nearly a week... that would kill me.

B
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Old 5th April 2010, 11:56 PM   #12
UpandDown
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

So how long does it take to get between your houses? No wonder you each have them for big chunks. If we can afford somewhere for my H to live (which I doubt) I was assuming it would be close. Having said that, if we can't he might have to move into his parents house in Blackpool!! (We're in Surrey) although the petrol costs would be astronomical.....

I don't think I could cope being apart from my kids that long. When my H first left I didn't think I could cope with the kids without him. I felt resentful that it was me doing all of the nights and most of the days, but then when I considered the alternative of me going out to work full time and him living here with them I realised I really wanted to be here for them. It's taken me a good few weeks to get to the point of confidence that I can manage on my own. It's also to do with the lost dreams of a future as a happy family. As someone said on here though, this abnormality will one day become normality as we do it more and more.

I hope your meeting goes really well tomorrow. What industry are you in? I'll be keeping my fingers crossed you get a good night's sleep.

Kathryn
x

PS do you have any bankruptcy advice for me?!x
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Old 6th April 2010, 03:32 AM   #13
mdmquincy
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Kathryn, your post made me smile...J
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Old 6th April 2010, 03:39 AM   #14
taz
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Ah, my wife has moved into a flat which is only about 5 minutes from me, so we're not far from each other at all - it's just she's originally from Herts and the the rest of her family are down there.

Been thinking, and having said all that earlier about the stress over money, we're now actually paying about 4 times as much in rent for the two new places as we were for the place we were living in together, so this separation hasn't done much to lift any of that stress.

In fact, it's actually just made it worse - another bad decision in a long line of bad decisions which has done nothing to alleviate any of the problems she/we had.

Gah. 3.35am here and I haven't slept yet as my head is full of stuff for this meeting later this morning (I'm in advertising, btw), excited about getting my kids back, and I'm also having another panic/anxiety attack over the fact that my wife isn't here with me. I never really slept that well anyway when she was away somewhere - and I haven't slept properly since January now.

Knowing that she's 5 minutes up the road in another bed in another house is absolutely killing me.

If she was here, and the kids were also in their beds here, I'd be upstairs sleeping like a baby.

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Old 6th April 2010, 07:40 AM   #15
UpandDown
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Re: Same boat. Another long story... :o(

Good luck in the meeting today. Hopefully you'll be running on adrenaline and you can sleep later! I'll be thinking of you and keeping everything crossed you get the contract.
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