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Old 13th April 2005, 07:14 PM   #31
robin
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Thank you, London, it helps me to know that some people understand exactly how I feel.
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Old 13th April 2005, 07:23 PM   #32
helenrw200
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Hi London and thanks for answering, what I meant by together was that you seem ,as you said, not to see everything as black and white but appreciate the various shades of grey in between. I for one don't find your posts offensive, you answer with honesty and integrity and see the bigger picture, which makes a refreshing change.
As for myself, I am indeed involved with a new partner, we were in a similar situation to yourself until about 6 months ago, having a distance relationship where we met up once a fortnight for a weekend and believe me when I say I understand the problems that can bring ! The distance between us was only that from London to Coventry but as neither of us could drive ( a situation that has now been rectified ) it might as well been London to L.A !

I have had trust problems with this relationship , partly caused by the living in seperate counties etc, but we are working on them and it is a little easier now he lives here.

My partner is single/ never married and had only had one long term relationship and one short term when we met , he has no children and was alone for 2 years prior to us getting together, during this time he had developed a certain life style that doesn't fit in well with what I was used to, so it was hard for us both to adjust , also the fact that I have 2 sons ( 21 and 15 ) and that the youngest is autistic meant lots of adjusting on his part. he moved to be with me which meant giving up a reasonably good job in London , and of course the stress of finances made things harder, but I could not have taken my son from his school ( autistic children do not cope well with change ) so we had only the choice of continuing the way things were or him moving in, which in the end seemed the best option.

If you have perused my posts in the section on porn and masturbation you will get the drift of the kind of problems we faced.

I hope that your present relationship continues to go well, and that you both reach a conclusion you are happy and comfortable with.
Helen
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Old 13th April 2005, 07:47 PM   #33
London
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

helen - wrt your concerns on porn. I do not necessarily see it as a sign of infidelity (especially when there is distance involved OR you belive his character is prone to straying in wc case that would raise other concerns). Rather, think about it as him getting relief from someone you know well and trust - HIMSELF. It would be better for you to allow him to, well, er, you know, masturbate to pictures/video than for him to actually visit someone in the flesh. If he insists on porn while the two of you are nearby or together, then i would investigate why. But as it is, it shouldn't have been anything of concern (i am not debating the porn industry here per se - wc I think has its own issues of respect etc...). Porn has a strange effect on different people - you just have to assess what type of character your beau is and go from there.

In order to maintain a healthy persepective, people need to accept that not only that fantasies are a huge part of the human pysche and that its NORMAL for people - both men and women to have them, but also that people can find OTHER (real) people attractive. What makes us adults is whether we choose to act on the fantasies with the caveat that it does NOT harm your partner (emotionally or physically).... and also whether we can distinguish between fantasy and reality.
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Old 13th April 2005, 08:28 PM   #34
helenrw200
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

London,
I guess that's a different way of looking at it ( not one I am convinced of myself ) . The truth of the matter is that he knows I object to porn, in his case , it is not only the type of porn i.e live shows on interent sites , where you ask girls to perform whilst you watch and pay for the show , but also that he knows the reasons for my objecting to it and what's more has known from the start of our relationship. If I believed it would stop at harmless fantasies then I maybe wouldn't object, but I know for a fact that he had the number of local massage parlours ( and I use the term loosely ) stored on his mobile , he says to trap me , to see if I am checking up on him ( it's a long story ), however I used his mobile in all innocence to contact what I THOUGHT was the home number of someone we obtain supplies from, only to find myself listening to a recorded message from one of the girls . When I confronted him he said he had caught me !!!!!!
This has been going on for some time and whilst I can - in all reality - see the need for porn when one lives alone , I cannot understand why he needs to watch women perform sex acts live now that we live together.


He says he needs his privacy, his term, I would call it secrecy , we have already been through the saga of PIN numbers on his mobile , I am of the belief that yes, everyone is entitled to privacy, but not to carry out deeds knowingly that would hurt our partners. In fact he was very upset about me chatting to one of my male online contacts , so much so that I immediately stopped, it was a perfectly harmless person with whom I used to chat on occasion but I understood it upset him and so I stopped. However he seemingly can't pay me the same courtesy.
Helen
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Old 13th April 2005, 09:27 PM   #35
London
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

helen - thanks for the clarification. I agree, he doesn't really have a legitimate excuse for "massage parlour" numbers stored on his mobile or for viewing live sex acts online. I can only imagine how much it hurts you - well, what i think hurts most is the disrespect rather than the actual act itself (wc is another reason to be upset by itself).

The only explanation for the online porn stuff is that he is "addicted" to it. I know a few people (actually "normal" people) who are addicted to internet porn. Just the fact they can view it online is enough justification for them. In your situation, the fact that you asked him to stop now that you are living together and he hasn't is an indication to me that he either doesn't take your needs seriously or that he doesn't know how to deal with his porn addiction. Also, the whole "I am testing you" crap he threw your way wrt to the phone number is a crock of s**t!

There is really no reason to "test" anyone if he had any notion of trust and give an take. He knows you are not a fan of it and have asked him to stop. He should have been more forthcoming with "here, look at my mobile phone, i've cleared the entry and also, here is my recent history from Internet Explorer - I know i don't have to prove anything but i just want you to relax and believe in me"......
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Old 13th April 2005, 09:48 PM   #36
helenrw200
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Hi London,
I'm pretty sure, well as sure as I can be , that he hasn't done anything the last few weeks, he really can't see why it's a problem and we have had numerous rows about it, it has spoilt what was otherwise promising to be an excellent relationship , he is someone I care deeply about . We now have new mobile numbers ( he destroyed the other chip ) and we have online billing so if I needed to check I could, so unless he has an alternative chip I am unaware of ........ see how suspicious I have gotten over this ?

As for the internet, he rarely usues it now except in my presence so I guess he is starting to come round a little and understand my point of view. My trust in him has been badly shaken though, and only time will tell if it will mend.

Yes the disrespect did hurt , but mostly it was the lying and deceit , I am always wondering now, if he goes out, is he really where he says he is ?

However I am strong, and whatever the outcome, I shall as the song so succinctly puts it, survive !
Thankyou for your understanding, and support.

Helen
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Old 15th April 2005, 09:58 AM   #37
Spring271076
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Hi London

Sorry I haven't replied recently. But Wednesday got too much and I had to leave work, I then proceeded to break down at home. Luckily one of my good friends just text to see how I was, so after saying if he didn't mind that my face looked like a swollen mess, he was more than welcome to come over. So we talked about me, my HB for a short while, then he got me thinking about other things in life. So come yesterday I feel all "strong" and ready to face the world again. Today I am feeling a bit odd, sort of like my body is in one place, but my soul not quiet attached, a bit out of sorts I suppose.

I think when Helen described you as straightforward (correct me if I am wrong Helen) she meant you are logical, able to see the bigger picture. I certainly have found your words kind and comforting, and certainly helpful.

I am of course sorry it did not work out between you and your wife, but if the both of you are happier then it was the right thing to do.

I know that feeling about doing the everyday tasks then it suddenly hits you that you would have done that with your other half. It really brings it home. I am also lucky that my HB was also one of my best friends, which is possibly why this separation is so hard emotionally. Luckily my 3 cats are so demanding they constantly follow me all round the house trying to get me to feed them, play with them, or just provide a lap for them to sleep on! In fact they have become councellors, well I talk to them about my feelings and thoughts, and they just sit there meow and purr.

I am hoping to be able to find somewhere or praying that perhaps my HB will for the short term. To be honest I think I may go out of my mind otherwise.
I can understand that HB wants to talk to me, but yes you are right perhaps we both should set ground rules down for each other. At the end of the day I know if HB found out that talking to him just sent me into another emotional wobble, I know he'd feel even worse and I am trying to keep things as smooth as possible for him (well as much as I can)

I agree writing things down really helps, in fact this web portal is typically where I will pore things out, not minding if I don't get a response, but just somewhere I can pour my thoughts down.

London, thank you for your advice, and words. I hope your life is now on the striaght and narrow, and that above all you are happy. One of my friends last night (who is grieving for his partner who left him in November) said I will always be single and I'll turn into a grumpy old man, he's only 24!!. Well my response was one of shock, saying well if you will never find any one, I certainly am doomed for a life of singleton (being a few years older). With that we laughed and agreed life will get better, it always does.

Have a great, fun filled weekend.
Spring
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Old 15th April 2005, 02:26 PM   #38
London
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Spring -

Not to sound cliched or anything but life has a weird way of sorting itself out - not always as quick as one wants but it sorts itself out.

Its funny you mention that I come out as logical, truth be known I am often "emotional" when it comes to my own relationships - in the sense that I let my heart drive me rather than my brain. For example, I know the current relationship I am in is rather difficult and full of challenges given the distance involved (and a few other complications) - but I am hoping that things will get sorted out soon. Logically, the relationship should not make sense but relationships are not about logic. They are based on what you feel and then "translating" that feeling into something that can be appreciated and returned by the other - who also needs to be "feeling" the same/similar vibe so as to be able to interpret and return your feelings.

That is why i often have a hard time accepting some explanations that you must stay in a relationship for the sake of this or that or because you made vows etc.... Yes, feelings change but they change in a way that allows the relationship to grow. If there is no more growth because one of the two parties has stalled in that department then its time to re-evaluate. Sometimes, the stalling is due to differing desires and the realisation that there is nothing there to give to the other. Its painful and an emotional roller-coaster for both when that happens. However, that stalling is indicative of the need to grow but the inability to do it at this moment. Whether or not that can resume or not (with the same two people) is what people are trying to figure out and it depends on so many factors but at the root of it is "do i want to grow here, in this relationship with this person"? That is an emotional response. Making it into a "practical" solution bc of the kids or bc of taxes or bc of what was said in a "church" often reduces the growth potential and often leads to a relationship that is void if its underlying essence. If that's what one wants at all costs with another, then yes, you can delude yourself into thinking that staying is the "best" option.....


The "bigger picture" is easy to see when you talk to others (friends, this board etc) and when you bring your own personal experiences to it. For me, there is no bigger picture than that which has both of us in the relationship happy - much easier said than done. I try to be Zen about some things in life and my experiences have taught me which battles I need to fight and which ones are just not worth it (forget about even trying to win any of them, just deciding which ones to challenge is a lifetime of learning!!).

I only suggested the ground rules to you as an idea that will give you space for yourself while forcing your H to realise that YOU are an individual with emotional boundaries that need to be acknowledged. Too many times, people forget that in a relationship (and this often leads to hurtful gestures, often unintentional). Re-establishing them makes him know that the relationship is about growth and respect.....
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Old 26th April 2005, 12:32 PM   #39
Waterman
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

There is another view here. It will for sure apply in some cases and not in others. Only the persons involved can be sure whether it applies to them. Here it is:

You are being incredibly selfish and self-centred. You have milked your partner of the best years of their lives, and while they have given selflessly to you, you have neglected your relationship, your partnership with them. Is it any wonder why that partnership is failing?

When your relationship had its downs (as opposed to its ups), your partner showed strength and put her or his own negative feelings aside, keeping faith, whereas you wallowed in self pity, and now your response to your own guilt is to blame emotions you can't control. Far better for the guilt to dissappear than for you to have to deal with it. Far better to blame the situation on something you can't control than to take responsibility and do something about it.

On the other hand, when the relationship had its ups you were happy enough with them to keep on going, but now you want something new. Your boring old partner, who has shown you such unswerving faith isn't good enough, you need more out of life. You say you love them like a brother or like a father but that's just more hypocrisy designed to make you feel good about yourself and your actions. In truth your hehaviour shows contempt, and that must call into question your very ability to love anybody but yourself.

You really would like your partner to dust themselves down and get on with their lives, remaining good friends and pretending that there has been no hurt. After all, there are children to consider and it's far better that they don't get dragged into the recriminations. So you want your partner to mirror your own hypocrisy and pretend it doesn't hurt. And you want your children to be deceived into thinking that it didn't hurt mummy or daddy, that it isn't so bad after all. You are so good at seeing it your own way and of manipulating your own conscience that when your partner says no to this you think they are being unreasonble. After all, you've lived a lie so why shouldn't they?

The real irony is that it isn't the life you lived that was the lie, it was the self-worship that ended it that was the lie.
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Old 29th April 2005, 05:32 AM   #40
squeeky
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenrw200

My husband pretty much knew from the start that I didn't love him in that way, I think he hoped it would grow in time, we had been friends for a few years before we got together.

2) Did your husband tell you that you were the only one he could ever be with? Did he profess his love to you often, his attraction to you? How did you respond?
Yes he often said this, especially in our first few years of married life, generally I avoided answering him, my heart would sink, if he cornered me we usually ended up arguing , he was often annoyed by what he termed my " cold heartedness " but he insisted on bringing the subject up at times.
Helen, I can't tell you how similar your interaction seems to my own situation. My wife knew that I didn't love her when we got married even though she didn't use those words. All the signs were there but she ignored them until we got married. After we were married, disagreements led her to feel that I didn't lover her. After I admited it to her after denying it for years, any disagreement, however small, often results in my wife cornering me about my "love" or lack thereof. She just won't leave it alone. I do my best to convince her that I love her and that I want to be married and most of the time it does the trick. But, I would rather respond with "I Like you very much". Do you think it is an incapacity to love or do you think it is in the relationship?

My wife and I are still together (You can read my post "I don't love my wife and never have) but it is very unstable. Some members of my family said that if I left that I would be "throwing away my family". So, I'm staying in this relationship to try and make myself feel a loving connection with my wife despite the fact that I think she would be able to find someone who would love her back. But I can't leave because of the devistation it would cause my wife and our two children and the guilt that will accompany such action.

It's good to know that someone has left a relationship like this and that both people now feel much more fulfilled.
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Old 29th April 2005, 06:27 PM   #41
robin
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Just a note to say I am still reading comments with interest on both threads. I have been taking anti-depressants for 3 weeks and have stopped crying all the time. I am content in that my youngest child is still in a 2 parent family unit and that my husband still has what he wants eg me, but how long I can live "in limbo" ie no desire for intimacy of any sort, I don't yet know. But I am not making any changes in my life at present that would affect other people. I am very fortunate in that I have exceptionally supportive friends and colleagues who are helping me by letting me talk things through. I am not sure how long my husband will want us to continue in this way.
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Old 29th April 2005, 08:58 PM   #42
London
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Robin - A cyber hug to you. While its great you ask how long your husband will want to stay this way, more importantly is how long do you want to live this way. Should you decide to leave, you will at least have the opportunity for both you and your H to find true love.
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Old 23rd August 2005, 06:10 PM   #43
robin
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

Hi there, just an update from my last post of march2005. In case I can help anyone else I thought I would just let you know how it is going for us. I eventually made the decision to leave my marital home last month and am renting a house 5 minutes away. I talked at length to my 13 year old son and he is content with our arrangements - I spend everyday with him, during the day in the school holidays and after school during term time. I go back to my "other house" in the evening. Although it is not ideal, he has not had his daily routine disrupted and sees mum and dad interacting together in front of him. Sadly he shows no desire to stay at the new house but I don't make a big deal of that, he has all his belongings here and his wishes and needs are paramount. If I have to " commute" between the 2 houses for the next few years then so be it. I am contenter within myself knowing that I do not have to act out being a wife with someone I don't. Mothering my youngest son is most important at the present time. I regularly ask him if he is ok about everything and he assures me he is. We seem to be able to talk things through as they arise. My husband seems to have reluctantly accepted the situation.
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Old 23rd June 2012, 10:17 PM   #44
robin
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Re: Never have been in love with my husband

well, 7 years on don't know if anyone on this thread is still reading them - I was curious to see how people were getting on - I was so glad to have messages on this site, and now 7 years on can look back and be pretty sure I made the right decision to leave my marital home.
I met someone soon after by sheer coincidence as I wasn't looking for a new relationship, and we have been so happy ever since.
I can certainly understand what some people were trying to tell me, stick with your husband and make it work, beause I would certainly do that if I was experiencing problems with my current partner as I completely love him and always will - it actually highlighted to me the fact that I would never have been able to do that with my ex husband as the love was never there to start with. I can understand now though, that although the initial euphoria of new love fades, it is replaced by something very special, something I now am experiencing.
Please remember that life is not a dress rehearsal, just do your best for your children and try to stay friends with their father if you possibly can. My youngest son is now 20 years old and in his last year at university, I'm still spending lots of time with him and he is a well adjusted normal student! My ex husband has had a few girlfriends and we have a reasonably ok friendship.
Best wishes and thoughts to everyone in a difficult or unhappy placexxxxx
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