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Old 30th October 2009, 04:13 PM   #16
confused555
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Jazz,
I have read that a psychiatrist is the brain surgeon of mental health. I would love for my wife to go see one. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to recommend anything. I know I have to watch what I say. It seems like everything I say is somehow repurposed into a controlling statement. Also, thank you for your perspective on letting her be overactive. I do let her say and do whatever she wants without reacting to it. The going over this guy’s house late at night was just too much for me to let go. I have been told that it is important to have boundaries during this so things don’t go too far. I just don’t know where to far is. Stuff like the texting was too much for me and I spoke up, but the aftershock of this is still causing trouble. She thinks it can’t work because I won’t trust her anymore. It defies logic. She had the 2 week relationship with this guy, and is mad at me because I don’t trust her right now, and she swears I never will be able to. I know I am not supposed to react to her statements. I don’t react outwardly, but I do have trouble digesting them.

Raymond,
That is a very simple approach to help me judge my actions. My counselor said it as what is your motivation, but the “Is it loving” will be much easier to apply and follow. Rather than spend 1 min pondering what I am about to say to see what my motivations are I can just say it in my head and see if it sounds loving. Thank you for this simple philosophy.



I am confused about a situation that may happen tonight. The daycare where she is working (the one the older lady owns) is having a Halloween festival tonight. She will be there as an employee, and both of our kids will be there. I asked her if she wanted me to stop by, and she said no that she will be busy and won’t be able to talk to me. Then she said something about well you can if you want to, but I’ll be busy. I said something about being there for the kids, and she said you can if you want to. I imagine the guy that she has been texting will be there. I don’t really want to go because I will feel very uncomfortable around this guy. Now if I don’t go I am afraid that she will say something like I thought you were going to stop by, and I don’t know how to answer that. If I answer honestly she will think I can’t handle her being around this other guy and I don’t trust her. If I don’t go then it will appear like I care about the kids. Its another tightrope situation and I don’t know what to do.
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Old 30th October 2009, 06:26 PM   #17
Raymond
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Confused this working out what things will seem like if you do that or this can get you in a mess. Paradoxically you are almost letting yourself be controlled by your wife although she is not trying to control you. Do what you want to do. You don't have to give reasons unless asked. If you are there for the children fine. If you are not there because of this fellow fine although I think you ought to be able to stand up to him if you really wanted to go. You do need to watch him a little as well I think.

Nobody wants you to be a doormat. Not controlling someone doesn't mean you don't say ouch if they tread on your toes. Try and trust her about this fellow though. If you do go don't give her the impression that you are spying on her. If something were untoward you will know it straight away. Interfering with your marriage is treading on your toes I would have thought and if that was the case you are entitled to some thoughts. In the present scenario however try and give her the trust that she is sensitive about.

Raymond
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Old 30th October 2009, 08:17 PM   #18
confused555
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Raymond,

It does feel like she is controlling me now. I have made up my mind not to go tonight. The situation is likely to get to be too much for me to remain 100% calm especially if I see the txt guy and he gives me a bad feeling. Not much good can come out of going. The issue is in her asking. She likes to ask… Every time I have a counseling session she wants to know everything I talked about. I usually try to satisfy her curiosity while not telling her stuff she does not need to hear. I have not decided how to answer, but I will come up with a good answer for why I did not go.

I think your right I need to trust her. I mean if I trust her then I can sleep easier, and I can not worry as much. Nothing good can come from not trusting her. It is her decision either way and by trusting her I will fill a void she has. So why not accept that she is being honest. Why didn’t I think about the other day when I opened my big mouth and said “we both need to work on our trust”?

Thanks for your input.
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Old 31st October 2009, 11:46 AM   #19
MSC71
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Quote:
I would like to know HOW to apply what I have learned about my wife’s pleasing to communicate with her. Just last night she came home from my daughters dance practice and said I was mad at her for not getting home at a certain time. I had no expectations plans or anything. I figured she would be out much later than she was so I was of course not mad. I tried to reassure her of this, but it’s like she thinks she knows what I want. I admit the my old self would of expected her home earlier because I know what time dance practice ended. If she got home later than normal I would have asked where she was. I don’t know what is controlling and what is not right now. I am trying to learn the balance between assertive and controlling statements. I am hopeful making progress, but she told me last night she went looking for apartments. She says I make her feel guilty anytime she sees me.
If she says you are making her feel guilty then I would take that very seriously. If you are begging and pleading with her etc. then you probably are making her feel guilty. And don't ask her where she is going, what time she will be home etc. unless you absolutely have to know.

IF she was late from dance practice and you asked her where she was, she will take that as controlling. Especially if you have a bad tone or bad facial expressions etc when saying it. Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it that will set her off.

Your best bet is to be nice and respectful to her. If she is going somewhere don't ask any questions. Just tell her to have fun. No amount of control will keep someone from cheating on you. If someone wants to cheat, they will cheat no matter what. It has nothing to do with control.
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Old 31st October 2009, 03:26 PM   #20
Ageing Grace
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Very good advice from MSC there

Confused, I understand what you mean about your wife's assumption you'll be angry with her. My mother does this, too - and I used to do it. It's a legacy from my father: his controls taught us that any deviation from his expectations of of us would lead to punishment (physical or emotional).

In support of MSC's answer, above, I would like to tell you how I've seen Mum change over the 10 years since Dad died. She's had two long-term 'boyfriends' in this time (the first one died). Both of these are much nicer, better-adjusted people than Dad. They have both shown great patience and humour around her anxiety.

When Mum gets into a state because she's late, even beginning her greeting with "I know you'll be cross ... ", they just say something like "No, I'm not cross, isn't it a nice evening?"

If she has to make a trip that might be difficult, they come with her to help. She is slowly learning that it's OK to ask for a lift if her car isn't working; she won't be made to 'pay' for asking. She can make her own arrangements; plan events for herself - instead of having them vetted first by her partner, she can share her news with pleasure.

She can even cook a meal without referring to his dietary edicts, and she no longer falls to pieces if the food gets burned: she can even share a joke about it! She still says things like "I did something awful today ... " when she's merely forgotten a trivial task But, recently, she's begun to follow this up with "Oh, I suppose it's not the end of the world."

The stress induced by constant self-evaluation, self-censoring and self-criticism is beginning to fall away from her. Her 'boyfriends' have never known this stress, since control of or by others has not shaped their personalities.

My Mum's becoming more relaxed and, as a side-effect, is gaining in understanding. It's a joy to see

By loosening your 'controls' - and developing your capacity to share - you will undoubtedly help yourself towards a much more enjoyable style of being. You'll also help to create the emotional space for your wife to heal.

MSC's pointers make a great start. Good luck!

Best wishes,
AG
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Old 2nd November 2009, 03:56 PM   #21
confused555
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

I have stopped with the begging and pleading, and don’t ask questions about what time she will be home unless I have a really good reason. I realize I also need to stop worrying about the other guy. Nothing I say or do can keep her from doing what she wants to do. It’s just so hard to know she has something going on. When my son came home from the Halloween party and told me about it he mentioned the texting guys name several times (I did not ask or press the issue it was just him telling me about the party). I don’t know how to let this go. I know she is in limbo right now trying to figure things out but it hurts so bad to think about it.


The rest of this is just me trying to get my feelings out. The past week has been rough because she keeps being more negative. We were home Saturday morning and she decided to leave to the older ladies house. She said something about being home at 4 to go to dinner before we took the kids trick or treating because she wanted to start trick or treating at 5. I said give me a call because me and the kids might go somewhere and we could just meet or whatever. I took the kids to the movies and to a park. We were at the park and she had not called so at 4:30 I texted her asking her if she wanted to meet for dinner. I went back home to get her and we went out. She asked me what we did and when I told about the movies she said why you take them to the movies you never have before. She was upset about it. One time in the past I mentioned taking them to the movies while she was gone and she got upset because she wanted us to all go together. So from then on I never took them. Now that she is staying gone all the time and not spending anytime with the kids I thought we all deserved to have some fun. They wanted to go see the movies so I took them. I just told her that in the past I had not taken them because I wanted to do what I wanted. Now I was trying to do things they kids wanted. Then I also dressed up for Halloween because the kids asked me to. They got a kick out of it. I think I have only dressed up one other Halloween, and she gave me a hard time for doing that to. Then Saturday night she got sick and was throwing up. I cleaned up the messes and took care of her. Then my daughter started throwing up, and I took care of her also. She asked me to sleep upstairs so I could be there for both of them and I did. She said sometime earlier in the day that she needed to clean her car sometime so I got up early Sunday and took it to the carwash. When I got back I started to get me and the kids ready for church. She was laying in bed sick, but the she got up and started cleaning the house. I asked her if she wanted to go with us and she got mad. She said I just get mad at you when I go to church with you. She is upset because in the past I would drag my feet about going to church. A few times she would get up and take the kids and leave me sleeping. When she would get back I would be sad that she did not wake me, but on times she woke me I was grumpy about it. I know that this was a frustrating thing for her. She felt like I would be upset if she left me at home, and then she felt like I would be upset if she took me. So she gave up going a lot because of me. Since this whole thing has happened I have realized how selfish I had become. Now I want to go to church for me and the kids. She is upset that I want to go to church now, and not when she wanted to. She was complaining that the house was filthy and she needed to clean it. I have been doing all the housework for about the last 3 weeks, but I had not dusted or cleaned the mirrors and the small stuff. I said if she wanted to rest I could clean when I got back. When we got back home she was on the couch ready to leave. She wanted to take our kids one of their friends birthday party. I asked her if she wanted me to go and she said no you got to do stuff with them yesterday. That made me angry because she is the one who wanted to leave Saturday and I guess I was suppose to stay at home and clean the house and not do anything fun with the kids. I was nice and told her to have a good time. She said the older lady was going to meet her at the party. I figured she would stay out late with her and I asked her if she knew what time she might be home so I could make sure and be there to help with the kids and get their homework done since she was still not feeling well. She said I’ll just be there for a 2 hours and left. I staid home and cleaned the house. About 7 hours later (a little before the kids bedtime) she called saying she wanted to drop off the kids and then she would go over to the older ladies house to visit some more. She never even got out of the car when she dropped them off. I figured she would be out with them all day, but I did not make any plans because she said she would only be gone a few hours. I know plans change, and she might have been feeling better, but I would of went over to a friends house for a while or something if I would of know she would have been gone all day. When she got home I was down stairs I came up and she asked me what the sermon was over at church. After I told her she did not say anything. I asked her if she wanted to talk or if she wanted her space. She did not say anything so I told her I loved her and went back downstairs. I think she was still bothered by me going to church. It so weird because she is angry with me for going to church and making me doubt my going, and that is what she said I did to her. I never realized I was doing it, but I wander if she does or is equally oblivious to the message she is sending. I have also realized not to expect any recognition for any thing I do. I was a still sad that after I spent 7 hours at home cleaning the house, and cleaning her car in the morning that she never said a word. I don’t know what got me started on that, but I just needed to get it off my chest. I am trying to do everything I can to be loving and need to get these feelings out to someone other than her.
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Old 2nd November 2009, 04:08 PM   #22
Ageing Grace
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Thanks for that, Confused

I don't know if others will agree with me, but I'd show her what you just wrote. It demonstrates a huge amount of awareness about what went wrong before, and how you are working to put it right.

Best wishes,
AG
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Old 2nd November 2009, 06:19 PM   #23
confused555
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

AG,

I’m not sure how that would go. She keeps asking about what my counselor and I talk about, what other people say etc… I tell her some details, but not everything. I told her about some stuff I was working with on with the counselor and have regretted it. I looked at is as a positive acknowledgement that I messed up and was working to correct it. She looked at it like I was more messed up than she thought. One thing I have been saying to myself over and over again is I want to do everything I can in the most loving way possible. If in the end we end up separate I don’t want to have any regrets for saying this or doing that and pushing her away. I have already done enough damage, and hope that I don’t do any more.
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Old 3rd November 2009, 11:12 AM   #24
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Hi Confused

I have read all the threads and I can see why you are confused. There is so much going on between you and your wife.

You say you have been controlling and are trying to change. Congratulations you should be proud of yourself.

As I see it your wife appears to be depressed to me, and is blaming you for it, not only is she going through the grief of losing a parent she is now trying to deal with a husband who is trying to do the right thing by her.
Add to that a new older female friend, who has befriended her while she is at present very funerable, her friends son as gotton into the picture as well. Then there is you wanting to do things as a family and things with your children. To top it all off there seems to be a huge communication problem.

Confused what you are doing to help your wife is great, but I think you are becoming a bit of a door mat for her and probably feel like you are walking on eggshells to please her. Your wife is grieving and very angry at the world at the moment, also I think she feels guilty for the way she is treating you and threatened because of the way you are changing (will you still love her? or will your growth leave her behind) You deserve to be shown some gratitude for your efforts to show you wife that you love her and want to help get her though this. I think she has gotton into a deep hole emotionally and doesn't know how to get out of it, or even where to begin to start to try getting out of it.
As a woman who has experienced something similar you may have your work cut out for you. If she won't get professional help herself your continuing seeing a councellor is a great idea, you need to look after yourself.
Confused from how I have read your posts, I feel your actions may be a bit mechanical and not really from your heart correct me if I am wrong.

With the halloewenn night thing with your wife, I wouldn't have asked if she wanted me there to watch your children I would have said I'm looking forward to coming and seeing you and the children tonight. If the OM was going to be there, that's OK he would have seen what a loving husband and dad you are. Also if your wife does something for even if making you a coffee stop what you are doing and look her in the eye and say thanks. This will help make her feel appreciated. Hopefully she will recipricate with you. When doing things as a family say things like the Kids would love it if you came along etc. I think you get the picture.

My suggestions may help they may not, only you will know. Confused I think you are a truly wonderful man for having the courage to try and change your ways, also if its easier a letter from the heart to your wife wouldn't be a bad idea.

Hopefully I haven't cofused things for you even more
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Old 3rd November 2009, 02:10 PM   #25
Raymond
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

I think I am beginning to get confused with some of the things going on here. She seems very unappreciative for anything you do. You are going out of your way not to control her. She is not around enough.

To me it almost looks like she has stopped working on the marriage because of the past but somehow sees it as a threat that you are changing for the better. Could this be getting to her in the way that she might now need to work on her marriage and she is reluctant to make the effort? Before she may have felt justified because of the way you were.

You are hampered because she is recovering and being healed but somehow you are beginning to be a doormat as Jellybean pointed out.

Raymond
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Old 3rd November 2009, 04:19 PM   #26
confused555
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

JellyBean,
The things I am doing are coming truly from the heart. I have reprioritized my life because of this event. I have a lot different outlook on my wife, friends, church, and work. It is as if I was blind, but now see how selfish I was in some areas. I have made sure to recognize anything my wife does for me. She even says she sees the changes in me and thinks they are great. She says it is just too late.

Raymond,
She has and admitted to not working on the marriage. She says she is to bitter to work on the marriage She says she just does not know what she wants. The only positive thing she is doing for herself is she is going to individual counseling. Her family who she has always been very close to keep calling her asking for them to call. She does not return the calls and says they are trying to make her feel guilty for not talking to them. Her mom tried calling yesterday and asked her to please call because she knew my wife was off work. My wife told me about the messages and how her family was trying to control her. Her sister keeps calling me asking what’s going on. So it’s not just me she is doing this to. She also did it to a very close friend. The friend stopped me the other day and asked how things were going. I said I was confused, and she said I am too. Her friend told me “I just can’t believe she was that unhappy’

Things took a bad turn for me last night. She said she is planning to sign a lease on an apartment. We talked about it for a while and I asked what she expected to happen. She kept saying I don’t know. I asked about finances, child custody, separating our accounts, insurances cell phones etc. She just said I don’t know. She said you seem so matter of fact about this stuff. I told I was just trying to understand how she envisioned the separation working. The only thing she had a plan for was the child custody. She said M and W with her, and Tue and Thur with me and the alternate Fri Sat Sun. That seems like a lot of exchanges and confusion for them, but I don’t know.

I am being loving. I did not hound her over the questions I just asked them once and she never answered. She is going to sign a year lease, she said she wanted 6 months but they would not do it. I also asked if she still wanted to see each other, or would we keep it to just what we needed to do for the kids. Again she said, I don’t know.

Am I wrong for wanting answers? Should I just hang in limbo and hope things work out? I just don’t know what to do. Is she just doing this hoping I will say ok fine lets divorce, or does she truly not know? Any Ideas?
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Old 3rd November 2009, 06:54 PM   #27
Raymond
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

I think she was/is a little confused which in turn is making you confused. This is probably all part of the tradgedy she has expierenced. She is desperately wanting something. I hope that something turns out to be the new you.

What can you do? I think you just have to see it through. Be patient because of her condition but don't go so far as to be a doormat. If you can be a stable influence in her life all the better. It seems a low point at the moment but she just might not follow through by the sound of it. Lets say it's not over until it's over.

The fact that she is treating her family the same way and accusing them of control might show that it is her condition just now rather than just you.

She is looking for something but doesn't really know what that is. I think when it all catches up with her you will not seem so bad after all.

Raymond
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Old 4th November 2009, 03:35 PM   #28
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Hi confused

I'm no doctor but after your last post could it be possible she's has some sort of breakdown, because of her grief.

Could the new older female friend be influencing her in some way? Something similar happended to my grandmother years ago. In her case it was a young mother who befriended her, she ended up stealing from her and my grandmother turned against her children, saying they didn't care about her and other stuff, it was really side for my mum and sisters.

No your not wrong for wanting answers, and no you shouldn't have to be in limbo land. In regard to the children, I think what she wan'ts is unfair to them and yes confusing for them. Maybe Sun-wed for one of you and Thurs-Sat night Sunday morning for the other may be more helpful for the children. Don't let her have what suits her wants when it comes to the children,do the best by them to make things as easy for them as possible through all this.

Maybe she is hoping you will say enough let's divorce, this way depending on the way she's thinking it may make her look like the wounded party. I don't know.

keep looking afteryourself Confused for your sake and your childrens. Keep posting and asking questions out loud here, it may help you find the answer your looking for.
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Old 5th November 2009, 08:57 AM   #29
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

Confused555...

You think you are confused????? That is an understatment for me! I cannot get it that you moved out of the family home and waited on her with baited breath to decide where you should be. Listen!! POINT BLANK ..Are you a man or a mouse? I don't want to be insulting, but you seriously need to think what is going on here. I see things entirely from different eyes than others and wonder about what I see here.

You have two small children. Yes, OK..she is sad about her family losses BUT she is no child and separation from ones' parents should have been long accomplished. I think the "friend" ..the lady who bought her some clothes and they spend every night together..gave her a job, etc. ......has the son ...there seems something wrong there. I say BIG TIME wrong. Between you, me and the lamp post....I don't think your wife is texting the SON! I think that is all a smoke screen for some strange... fascination, friendship or whatever with this woman. Too many things don't add up. If it dosen't add up...it smells of deception. You have a GUT feeling there is something going on. I believe your gut. I just don't think you see the whole picture.

Please don't tell me I have a smudgy mind. I am the mother of a daughter who came out of the closet after 32 years of my thinking I knew my daughter. Back to what I said..you don't leave your house and you don't crawl into the basement and ask her permission. Move yourself BACK into your bedroom and your bed. If she dosen't care for that perhaps she chooses to sleep in the next bedroom. You must renegotiate who is HEAD of household? YOU or her? Controlling? I don't see you as controlling. Maybe detached, would be my word.

I think you need some clear speaking between you and your wife. I wonder if there was any dramatic things happened to her as a child and her whole identity is in question? Don't play around with this anymore about where you will be sleeping. Your little kids must be very upset with all this conflict. You should be there at home with your children. I also wonder if there is not a surface thing with her to keep YOU around.....albeit IN THE BASEMENT.....as you are the main wage earner? Let the kid gloves come off. Sit down and ask some direct questions. If you don't like the answers, maybe she should be the one who moves out.

Sorry you are getting mixed signals but I think you are not seeing the forest for the trees. I personally believe most of this is a smoke screen for your benefit. Perhaps these two women have a different scenario and usually most of us don't get it. I question the amount of time they spent together. The woman bought her clothes? They go on vacation together? I see the woman having a few drinks too many. Maybe she is conflicted about HER home situation. I don't think your wife was texting the SON. I think that is a smoke screen for your eyes. Personally, I think there is something not right about the "friendship" with the woman. What do you know about WHO she was texting? You ASSUMED it was the guy she was texting. Your gut is telling you right .... you know something is wrong there but you interpret it as most of us would do. That there is "another man."

So long as the son is around maybe you are not seeing the whole picture? Rethink that, and start to see some of the incidents you describe. Yes, get some clear speaking with her and listen closer to what you hear. It is great you are seeing the counselor together. It sounds like you are a very nice man who needs to take back his power and security in the household.

My relationship with my daughter is good but I see things now I would not have seen before.

Sure hope what I feel about all this is not the case. The problem is..it is happening all the time! The best thing would be if the truth ..whatever it is..can be worked out between you both and you reconnect. Never alllow the wife to make all the decisions. You make a decision to fight for the marriage or let it...and her go. Too much drama around her grief. I think there is more to this.

PS Be a good fellow and SPACE your postings into paragraphs so we can all read it easier. One won't read a very long post all jumbled together.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 5th November 2009 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 5th November 2009, 01:54 PM   #30
jellybean28
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Re: What is the right thing to do for my wife right now?

wow 1aokgal

that's a new twist you've put on things!!!
Confused you must be bamboozled now you poor thing

Still lots of good advice and food for thought from 1aokgal
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