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Old 15th April 2009, 01:09 PM   #1
TheLaughingGnome
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Whinge for today

I don’t really know if I’m here for advice or just a whinge! In any case I wasn’t going to post but something Raymond said on another thread about working through the “no love” feeling resonated with me. I’ll probably waffle on for a while and answer my own questions in the process but I am seriously considering getting some counselling for myself.
I’ve been married for 19 years, with the usual ups and downs, which lately seem to have been getting more frequent and severe. I am not even sure what they are about most of the time, who said what to whom in what tone of voice mostly. But what seems to be happening to me, at any rate, is that I am remembering every more serious argument and hurtful comment more and more, and particularly over the last 3 years I feel that “not sure if I love you anymore” feeling more frequently and it takes longer to get over.
Now most women would probably kill for my husband – he’s a good bloke basically and he’s very good around the house (too good, even that drives me mad but that’s another story!). To my mind there are lots of problems building up (including his inability to express emotion and show affection) that all stem from his low self esteem and I don’t really know how to handle it any more. I have been doormat, apologising when I really don’t feel like it’s my fault. I have tried getting angry, or standing my ground. I have become cold for a few days. It seems to be a pattern and I don’t know how to stop it. This week he cried (again) after a bad weekend and I just honestly didn’t know what to do or say. I almost felt nothing. I have decided that I can’t be responsible for his weakness any more and I just have to be strong and almost be in charge as it were. I have supported him emotionally and financially lately as he has changed direction, but feel like I get little support in return. I have decided that I can expect nothing from him and have to make my own way, but in my heart I know this is not really healthy and it makes me come across as a cold fish.
When I read about other people’s problems it seems so insignificant but I am not really sure if I can just put up with it for the rest of my life. The joke of it all is he is a trained Christian counsellor and has been through counselling himself, but our own problem seems to be getting worse not better and when I have suggested counselling for me or us, he is very negative about it!!! I am thinking of getting some counselling just for myself to see if I can address my horrible feelings and learn a new way of communicating. I don’t want to walk away from this but it’s almost driving me mad. I try and make a conscious decision to forgive him for the hurtful stuff, but I am find it harder to forget. I rarely tell him how I feel as he takes everything so personally and it ends up in another argument.
I understand what Raymond was saying about ‘choosing’ to love, even when you feel the opposite, and that's the Christian thing to do but it’s really very hard.

BTW I 100% realise and accept that I am not perfect!

Last edited by TheLaughingGnome; 15th April 2009 at 01:11 PM. Reason: Wanted to point out that I know I am not perfect!
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Old 15th April 2009, 07:24 PM   #2
rppearso
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Re: Whinge for today

Its not about the fact that your not perfect its about the fact that your actions are effecting your husband and degrading his quality of life. Its one thing to suffer for your own actions but an entirely different thing when someone else suffers because of your actions. People should not be getting married unless they are prepared to do just about anything for there spouse and vise versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLaughingGnome View Post
I don’t really know if I’m here for advice or just a whinge! In any case I wasn’t going to post but something Raymond said on another thread about working through the “no love” feeling resonated with me. I’ll probably waffle on for a while and answer my own questions in the process but I am seriously considering getting some counselling for myself.
I’ve been married for 19 years, with the usual ups and downs, which lately seem to have been getting more frequent and severe. I am not even sure what they are about most of the time, who said what to whom in what tone of voice mostly. But what seems to be happening to me, at any rate, is that I am remembering every more serious argument and hurtful comment more and more, and particularly over the last 3 years I feel that “not sure if I love you anymore” feeling more frequently and it takes longer to get over.
Now most women would probably kill for my husband – he’s a good bloke basically and he’s very good around the house (too good, even that drives me mad but that’s another story!). To my mind there are lots of problems building up (including his inability to express emotion and show affection) that all stem from his low self esteem and I don’t really know how to handle it any more. I have been doormat, apologising when I really don’t feel like it’s my fault. I have tried getting angry, or standing my ground. I have become cold for a few days. It seems to be a pattern and I don’t know how to stop it. This week he cried (again) after a bad weekend and I just honestly didn’t know what to do or say. I almost felt nothing. I have decided that I can’t be responsible for his weakness any more and I just have to be strong and almost be in charge as it were. I have supported him emotionally and financially lately as he has changed direction, but feel like I get little support in return. I have decided that I can expect nothing from him and have to make my own way, but in my heart I know this is not really healthy and it makes me come across as a cold fish.
When I read about other people’s problems it seems so insignificant but I am not really sure if I can just put up with it for the rest of my life. The joke of it all is he is a trained Christian counsellor and has been through counselling himself, but our own problem seems to be getting worse not better and when I have suggested counselling for me or us, he is very negative about it!!! I am thinking of getting some counselling just for myself to see if I can address my horrible feelings and learn a new way of communicating. I don’t want to walk away from this but it’s almost driving me mad. I try and make a conscious decision to forgive him for the hurtful stuff, but I am find it harder to forget. I rarely tell him how I feel as he takes everything so personally and it ends up in another argument.
I understand what Raymond was saying about ‘choosing’ to love, even when you feel the opposite, and that's the Christian thing to do but it’s really very hard.

BTW I 100% realise and accept that I am not perfect!
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Old 16th April 2009, 09:01 AM   #3
Raymond
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Re: Whinge for today

I've listened to you winge TLN and don't really know what to say which is unusual for me. You have been married for 19 years and obviously know your husband inside out. Was he always like this or is this a latterly thing? Is there anything to love about him at all? I am sure there is.

You do not paint a good picture of him. My wife actually says he is a hypocrite the way he is a christian counselor, won't take help and seems to be falling apart himself. The low esteem is something that should have been sorted out long before he became a counselor. The crying seems pathetic to me. I am not against men crying but this seems to be some kind of self pity. Something has got to happen and this is not necessarily your responsibility. It seems to me he is deceiving himself or has pride and will not humble himself to get the help he needs. Perhaps he feels he cannot do this because he is a counselor but one needs to face the truth here. If you can talk him into getting this sorted that would be loving him and making your life better too.

In a good church this sort of thing would be exposed and dealt with if he is in ministry. I think he ought to drop the ministry for a while get himself sorted as well before the marriage fails. Maybe he is not called to these outside counseling pressures and is paying a cost. One cannot mess with these things. Jesus says my yoke is easy and my burden is light. If he is taking something on that he is not equipped to do the pressure will get to him. I think maybe it is pride that is causing him to perform without the gifting. I don't know but something is dreadfully wrong somewhere the way I am reading it.

Of course you could cut and run and say I don't feel I love you anymore but I think the problem is much more than that and could be at church level. Besides you are needed here if this problem is going to be sorted and your husband restored.

Raymond
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Old 16th April 2009, 01:44 PM   #4
TheLaughingGnome
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Re: Whinge for today

Thank you for your reply Raymond. I suppose I am a little shocked, as I expected a response along the lines of that I was making it sound worse than it was and I should pull myself together!! I am not painting a good picture of him.....that is what worries me about whether I am just being too harsh or over-reacting.

He has always suffered from low self esteem, if anything I would say it used to be a lot worse!! There is plenty to love about him, but the other stuff is tending to make me forget that. All of this makes me question myself and whether it is me who needs to sort myself out.

He is not counselling in a church setting, but his voluntary work for a Christian agency is part of what I would describe as a portfolio of work both paid and voluntary that is all in the mental health/counselling arena which has only been possible because I am the main breadwinner. This is something that he initially embarked on many years ago and the counselling around 3 years ago - we both strongly believe that he has been called to do this as God has opened a lot of doors and we have always prayed that if it was right, God would lead him in the right direction. We have never pushed anything, but at each stage opportunities have been given. I don't have any qualms about him counselling others, but I do wonder if it is too much for him (some of his work is very emotionally draining and stressful), without the very high level of support that he expects from me. His supervisor has recently suggested that he should consider having some more counselling himself for his low self esteem issues.

The self esteem thing really affects everything - he thinks he is a bad dad because it doesn't come naturally to him and consequently makes me feel like he is jealous of my relationship with our teenage daughter (this causes rows). She is now starting to feel hostile towards him so that's a self fulfilling prophecy. He has also used an incident that happened over 20 years ago when I was 17 (a minor incident that I appreciate was hurtful to him at the time) against me in totally innocent situations, for example talking to a man at a church home group when I was on my own without him caused a massive row and upset me so much that I left that church.

I could go on but it's probably best that I don't. I am just sick of feeling that I have to be careful what I say, how I say it, when I say it and who I say it to. I am a strong woman and we have really reversed roles in lots of ways, and that may even be part of the problem. I have concluded that I feel I can expect nothing from him in the way of emotional support which even someone like me needs on occasion, so I will just have to stay strong for myself with the help of God. A friend of ours who is also a student pastor at our church noticed I was looking a bit grim at the weekend, so she had a little chat and pray with me and said I should phone her when I'm feeling down, but I find that difficult as they have been friends of ours for 15 years and it doesn't feel right talking about my other half with her like that.

It's easier talking to strangers like here, so thanks for that.
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Old 16th April 2009, 06:09 PM   #5
Raymond
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Re: Whinge for today

Something wrong somewhere tlg. One is meant to have fellowship in housegroups and talk to both sexes. You couldn't be in a safer place. My wife oftens goes without me so I don't understand that. Is it your church or is it him? As for dragging up the past that is not helpful. My wife does that privately to me sometimes but she is gradually learning that it is not profitable or scriptural.

You are obviously two different kinds of people, but that can be a strength in your marriage for both of you.

If God has called him to counseling God will supply the need. It should not be your burden to support him unless you were happy with it.

I get the impression that your husband was short on nurture as a child. I could be wrong, but this could account for the low self esteem. I grew up as an orphan and had very low self esteem. Coming to Christ changed this especially the Holy Spirit. The other part of it was the word of God: believing who God says you are and He doesn't lie.

Although your husband is a counselor there seems to be a lot of lack and I think he certainly would benefit from Christian counseling or a weekend retreat about it. Theres a lot I could say to him but he's not here, about loving your wife and meeting her needs. This is fundemental and basic in the scripture. There is more onus on the man to love than the woman it seems. This is where I get the thoughts about loving on purpose because God says it, pretty powerfully as well. When you do it God supplies the strength. If it was left to only feelings I would have been washed up long ago. I even used scriptures like love your enemies to get through some situations. This works in conjunction with feelings of course. In some ways the loving on purpose has paved the way for stronger and stronger feelings.

I don't know how this fits your situation but I would say you are married to the right person so there is a way through here. Adjustments might have to happen, but basically God sees you as married and a mistake has not been made. I assume you are praying for him and your marriage. You have got a bit discouraged and are in a trial but this can change you for the better if you let it. You will be changing as you are submitting to God in it. Even individually all the promises of God still apply to you so nothing can cut you off from the love of God except yourself.

Raymond
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Old 17th April 2009, 10:26 AM   #6
TheLaughingGnome
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Re: Whinge for today

Thank you Raymond. It is really not the church it is him (well him and me in combination I guess!)

Yes he was short on nurture as a child and still is - his own father was subject to an abusive parent and consequently was not a very good father emotionally (of course being of that older generation he made sure he provided in material ways). This is something that continues to plague the whole family even now my husband is nearly 50 and his father is an old man. It is very sad particularly as my husband is an only child.

I appreciate your encouragement. I am sure that this too will pass. Although I know it's wrong at the moment I feel a bit too raw to pray about anything other than asking God to help me. Another bad night last night, and now he is away for the weekend working. Hopefully this will give us a chance to draw breath.
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Old 17th April 2009, 01:00 PM   #7
Raymond
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Re: Whinge for today

We can't always be vending machines with regard to prayer tlg. This shows you are not ready for that battle yet and need personal help and encouragement just now. We are in a spiritual battle and we feel that at times. Now is the time you need comfort and encouragement.

With regard to your husband it looks like something came down the generational line, which is more common that you think. If he was open there are places he can go to. I know places but I will leave it to you if you/he wanted to enquire with me.

Although we are responsible for our actions it is not our fault if we get saddled with things from our background and childhood. It is our choice what we do about it to get healed though. You wouldn't believe the background I have had, but God is a healer and pretty thorough with it as well. It would not be a weakness for him to get help, but a strength.

I hope you find the encouragement and rest you need just now. By the way why do you call yourself the laughing gnome?

Raymond
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Old 18th April 2009, 10:39 PM   #8
rppearso
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Re: Whinge for today

The church pressure people into such activity, for instance I am an engineer and pilot thoes are my giftings and was told that my giftings are "worldly" and that I am not doing much spiritually (because I dont play guitar or plan "church events" or have a leadership role). I speak out against evil and do the best I can to inturpret the bible and help people. There is alot of pressure from church if you dont fit in a narrow band of giftings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I've listened to you winge TLN and don't really know what to say which is unusual for me. You have been married for 19 years and obviously know your husband inside out. Was he always like this or is this a latterly thing? Is there anything to love about him at all? I am sure there is.

You do not paint a good picture of him. My wife actually says he is a hypocrite the way he is a christian counselor, won't take help and seems to be falling apart himself. The low esteem is something that should have been sorted out long before he became a counselor. The crying seems pathetic to me. I am not against men crying but this seems to be some kind of self pity. Something has got to happen and this is not necessarily your responsibility. It seems to me he is deceiving himself or has pride and will not humble himself to get the help he needs. Perhaps he feels he cannot do this because he is a counselor but one needs to face the truth here. If you can talk him into getting this sorted that would be loving him and making your life better too.

In a good church this sort of thing would be exposed and dealt with if he is in ministry. I think he ought to drop the ministry for a while get himself sorted as well before the marriage fails. Maybe he is not called to these outside counseling pressures and is paying a cost. One cannot mess with these things. Jesus says my yoke is easy and my burden is light. If he is taking something on that he is not equipped to do the pressure will get to him. I think maybe it is pride that is causing him to perform without the gifting. I don't know but something is dreadfully wrong somewhere the way I am reading it.

Of course you could cut and run and say I don't feel I love you anymore but I think the problem is much more than that and could be at church level. Besides you are needed here if this problem is going to be sorted and your husband restored.

Raymond
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Old 20th April 2009, 01:26 PM   #9
TheLaughingGnome
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Re: Whinge for today

Thanks again Raymond. I called myself The Laughing Gnome, because Gnome is a long standing nickname from people being unable to pronounce my perfectly straightforward biblical name . And usually I am a very happy person.

I am sure that people have been praying for us, because I do feel a lot more positive since he came home at the weekend. He brought a little workbook back about strengthening your marriage for us to look at together. I had to resist being sarcastic as he has always rejected any attempt by me to suggest shared reading material. I think he realises how serious things may become so I am happy to encourage this. Also something our pastor said at church yesterday was a bit of a wake up call for me - he was talking about committment (in a church context) but then talked about how it's the same in a marriage - sticking with it for better or worse - which I can accept in my current circumstances (I mean that wouldn't be acceptable for everyone - thinking of abuse for example).

I am sure you are right about the generational thing and I know that it's not his fault, but as you say the choices he makes arising from that are what is important. I won't press anything with him at the moment as he seems to be aware of the need to continue dealing with it. But thanks for the offer, I will let you know if needed.
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Old 20th April 2009, 05:28 PM   #10
Raymond
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Re: Whinge for today

Thats good tlg. Commitment helps one overcome an awful lot but there has to be love within that commitment of course. Committed to love is a better phrase. We are not talking about a prison here. It is a blessing that he wants to work on the marriage. A lot on here didn't get that. As you know love isn't only a feeling thing but extends to finding a way to live harmoniously and loving the other person. I really hope things improve now and that you become a happy bunny again.

Raymond
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Old 23rd April 2009, 01:37 PM   #11
TheLaughingGnome
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Re: Whinge for today

oh well it didn't take long before we started again, so i have begun professional online counselling. They recommended that love languages book that i see people on here talking about, so i have sent off for it. i am trying to give myself a talking to because i just feel so drained at the moment i catch myself wondering if i can be bothered with the effort of it all. i am starting to wonder if its just me and my failings are worse than i realised. i know that it is best to be honest with each other about how you are feeling but when i share my feelings it always ends up in an argument.
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Old 23rd April 2009, 07:09 PM   #12
Raymond
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Re: Whinge for today

That is a good book that may help tln. Gary Chapman is a christian.

There is nothing wrong in saying how you feel. That is a very good thing to do. You are not attacking or criticising, just sharing how you feel. It shouldn't be a threat or anything. Why does it end in an argument? You cannot help how you feel.

I am sure your failings are not worse than you realise are they? We do have an accuser. Make sure it is not that.

Sounds like you need a rest and tlc just now.

Raymond
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