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Old 15th August 2015, 05:20 AM   #16
Mfrisco
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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I dont agree that its mean at all for a spouse who has been rejected, lied to and cheated on to leave a marriage. In fact being cheated on is one of the very few reasons I would leave a marriage. The other being any sort of bad abuse against me or any children.

However its early days, if you feel that you would have her back and could trust her again, why not wait a while, but I am someone who wouldnt accept being second best if another relationship didnt work out. I would want that person to be with me out of their own choice, not because something else didnt work and they had no where else to go.

If she does ever want to come back, I would suggest that you make some conditions for her to do so, you wont want to appear a door mat who can be thrown away at the drop of a hat and picked up again as and when she wants to.
I agree 100% with you. My thought (and the thought of some of her family here) is that she is just a bit confused and may be going through a mid-life crisis where her brain is thinking "is this all there is? Could there be something else?" and it isn't her at all but some weird science project to find out if she is missing out on more exciting things. I've read some things on mid-life crisis (in men and women) and it seems as though they are not completely in their right mind and decision making has gone right out the window. Then again...who knows. She may be playing me.

I'm just not ready to throw away 20 years just yet. Give me 3 months.... I might be ready to close this chapter out and start on the "new me".

I'm confused by why, if she was really looking to leave, she would have only taken some clothes and items of insignificance. Things I know to be very important to her....photo's and items given to her by people she was close with who have passed away which she holds very dear to her are still all here. At this point...I'm just not sure what to make of it.
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Old 15th August 2015, 09:41 AM   #17
ralfgarnett
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

Hi mate hope your feeling a bit better today, I have just read your updated post and once again something almost exactly the same as me:

"I'm confused by why, if she was really looking to leave, she would have only taken some clothes and items of insignificance. Things I know to be very important to her....photo's and items given to her by people she was close with who have passed away which she holds very dear to her are still all here. At this point...I'm just not sure what to make of it."

Same here mate most of her stuff still hanging where she left it and in drawers etc including valuable family jewellery etc,, I agree with you about MLc , if you read my thread I mention it an number of times, madness sheer madness.
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Old 15th August 2015, 09:46 AM   #18
chosen
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

Maybe its her way of leaving the past behind?

Maybe she is testing this new life and dipping her toe in the water, after all she believes that you will be there waiting for her if it fails. Maybe her leaving her stuff is her way of keeping her claim on you and the house, one foot there and one foot with the oW, but it will not be the same if she does return either way, after an affair it can never be the same. Its as if she has shattered the marriage covenant and you will need to begin from scratch if she is completely repentant and willing to do all she can to make it right and regain your trust. if she only returns because it didnt work with the other lady, and not because she is sorry and actually wants to be with you, then she may well be on the look out for another lady. All things to consider.

Last edited by chosen; 15th August 2015 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 15th August 2015, 11:13 AM   #19
notDoneYet
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

Morning MF

You talk about the similarities in your situations. Haven't you heard of the script yet? All WW's follow such similar behaviours and even use the same words it's known as the script. As if they are reading from a manuscript.

Second, you say she isn't paying for the house. Know what that is? Entitlement. She's in full blown entitlement mode. That fog won't lift for quite a while so hanker in for the long haul.

You say she's left her stuff at your house. That's plan B. You're her insurance policy in case it doesn't work out with the OW. Well don't be plan B. You didn't sign up for that.

She still has you firmly at the end of the rope mate. It'll take you a while but you need to let go of the rope. Let her put her big girl pants on and deal with this herself. Nobody has ever 'niced' their WW back to the M.
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Old 15th August 2015, 02:56 PM   #20
Mfrisco
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Maybe its her way of leaving the past behind?

Maybe she is testing this new life and dipping her toe in the water, after all she believes that you will be there waiting for her if it fails. Maybe her leaving her stuff is her way of keeping her claim on you and the house, one foot there and one foot with the oW, but it will not be the same if she does return either way, after an affair it can never be the same. Its as if she has shattered the marriage covenant and you will need to begin from scratch if she is completely repentant and willing to do all she can to make it right and regain your trust. if she only returns because it didnt work with the other lady, and not because she is sorry and actually wants to be with you, then she may well be on the look out for another lady. All things to consider.
Hello Chosen - Indeed. I have run this through my head multiple times. It can never be the same. No that chapter is over (vs the whole book). I am good with her coming back only if she can apologize to me for the abandonment and the affair. Now to be honest, the old way was not working anyway. Looking back I admit I see where our relationship just got stale, boring, complacent. Now that is no excuse to find someone else and leave....that is all on her and she must be honest about that with herself and then with me.

But I'll own up to my part. I remember times in the last couple of years where I thought "we don't do things anymore". Sure we take at least two vacations a year....some very non-expensive such as renting a lake cabin for two nights or maybe a more expensive trip to Cancun or whatever....but I'm talking about daily or weekly things. We got in a rut where we were working all week, 12 - 14 hour days and just lounging a few hours before bed, and then the weekend was just grocery shopping and household goods. No fun...nothing special. So if she comes back for me, not for a fallback plan, and we work things out.... it will have to be all new anyway. New hobbies, new trust, new relationship.

But...I'm not crazy. I give the chance of the above happening about 20%.

What I'll have to figure out is:
1. If she doesn't do it soon...when do I end it and get the divorce going?
2. If she wants to remain friends as she has said she wants to do should we not reconcile, do I feel comfortable with that or should I just bow out of that and never speak to her again? I'm feeling like a post-relationship friendship will just keep reminding me of a sad failure and waste of what should have been eternal.
3. Do I stay in the area or move away? My job allows me to work from anywhere that I have a high-speed internet connection and some static IP addresses...so I could setup shop anywhere I want. Staying here might also occasionally remind me of all this. New life with a new place, change of scenery might be the best thing although I love my home and the city around me.

Last edited by Mfrisco; 15th August 2015 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 15th August 2015, 03:13 PM   #21
Mfrisco
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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Morning MF

You talk about the similarities in your situations. Haven't you heard of the script yet? All WW's follow such similar behaviours and even use the same words it's known as the script. As if they are reading from a manuscript.

Second, you say she isn't paying for the house. Know what that is? Entitlement. She's in full blown entitlement mode. That fog won't lift for quite a while so hanker in for the long haul.

You say she's left her stuff at your house. That's plan B. You're her insurance policy in case it doesn't work out with the OW. Well don't be plan B. You didn't sign up for that.

She still has you firmly at the end of the rope mate. It'll take you a while but you need to let go of the rope. Let her put her big girl pants on and deal with this herself. Nobody has ever 'niced' their WW back to the M.
Hi notDoneYet,
Yep I've come to know the script. Too many stories on the internet all with the same words. I want to know how much of that is my wife....and how much of that is the OW whispering in her ear. We can all agree that you do not know someone until you have lived with them, correct? Now that they are living together since July 20th...so 26 days now...in a single bedroom apartment (tight spaces)....I'm wondering if soon...give it a month more....maybe things are not all that they were cracked up to be. Maybe all of a sudden the glitter and the shine is fading off of this new fast-paced grouping. The OW was also married for the last 8 years and just back in April she had a medical procedure to implant a birth control device so just 2 months before all this started she had plans to still be with her husband...at least for a while. So this is new for both my wife and the OW.....and I'm interested to see if it doesn't fall apart almost as quickly. Or, I could be wrong and they are good to go for 20 years.

It doesn't mean my wife will be ready to reconcile properly with me...but if that falls apart it will give me some joy. Call it what you will, but I'll get a smile out of it if that happens.

I signed up for better or worse. You never know what the worse may be or how much is too much before you throw in the towel. I won't let the rope hang me and I will let go of it when I'm confident there is no further quality in it for me.
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Old 15th August 2015, 03:22 PM   #22
notDoneYet
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

You learn fast MF. One thing to be aware of though. The limerance rarely fades that quickly. They will still be very much 'us against the world' mode so the apartment will not bother them.

Interesting that you've managed to focus in on your part so quickly. My WW's and my life were very similar. But like you say, that M is dead.
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Old 15th August 2015, 04:56 PM   #23
chosen
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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Originally Posted by Mfrisco View Post
Hello Chosen - Indeed. I have run this through my head multiple times. It can never be the same. No that chapter is over (vs the whole book). I am good with her coming back only if she can apologize to me for the abandonment and the affair. Now to be honest, the old way was not working anyway. Looking back I admit I see where our relationship just got stale, boring, complacent. Now that is no excuse to find someone else and leave....that is all on her and she must be honest about that with herself and then with me.

But I'll own up to my part. I remember times in the last couple of years where I thought "we don't do things anymore". Sure we take at least two vacations a year....some very non-expensive such as renting a lake cabin for two nights or maybe a more expensive trip to Cancun or whatever....but I'm talking about daily or weekly things. We got in a rut where we were working all week, 12 - 14 hour days and just lounging a few hours before bed, and then the weekend was just grocery shopping and household goods. No fun...nothing special. So if she comes back for me, not for a fallback plan, and we work things out.... it will have to be all new anyway. New hobbies, new trust, new relationship.

But...I'm not crazy. I give the chance of the above happening about 20%.

What I'll have to figure out is:
1. If she doesn't do it soon...when do I end it and get the divorce going?
2. If she wants to remain friends as she has said she wants to do should we not reconcile, do I feel comfortable with that or should I just bow out of that and never speak to her again? I'm feeling like a post-relationship friendship will just keep reminding me of a sad failure and waste of what should have been eternal.
3. Do I stay in the area or move away? My job allows me to work from anywhere that I have a high-speed internet connection and some static IP addresses...so I could setup shop anywhere I want. Staying here might also occasionally remind me of all this. New life with a new place, change of scenery might be the best thing although I love my home and the city around me.
Hi not sure if you have your own home or rent, but I guess if the marriage did end that would need to be sold and the assets divided somehow so if you did want to move away that would be the time to do it. However its a big step to be thinking of right now, and they do say not to make life changing decisions for a year after big life events. If you love it there and have friends and some family, then why move away? Maybe just a new house in the same area may help.

Re the being friends, bad idea. with no children there is no need and she has a cheek expecting it to be honest. Would she remain friends with you and your new woman if you had done that to her? I doubt it.
My husbands ex did the same, but after a while he had to tell her to back off as she was till trying to control his life and take advantage of him even after we were engaged and married. Basically she wanted him as a friend to help her out with stuff, espcecially after her new man was off the scene. I wasnt having that no siree.

For now its very recent, you may need to decide for yourself how long you will wait. No one knows how long it will last, often new relationships take a year or two to loose that initial new excitement phase, but I doubt it will last, because relationships that begin with one or both cheating rarely do. No one knows the future, but you sound like a sensible man, and I am sure you will know when you are ready to move on and let her go. You may need to be firm about her things though, how long does she expect you to have them in your home?

Please dont blame yourself for any perceived failure on your part that may have led to this. All marriages are mainly companionship and living together day by day and chugging along. They cant be all exciting and romantic all the time, thats not life, although the policy of a regular date night is a good one to have.
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Old 16th August 2015, 10:46 PM   #24
Mfrisco
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

Hi notDoneYet - I'm only catching on quick because I have a large support group around me of folks in their 40's and 50's ....so people who have been around the block a few times and they are really helping me a lot.

chosen - We do own our home...well I say own but we are buying it. We owe around $120,000 on it and bought it for $174,000 back in 2004. Current appraisal on it is somewhere around $268,000. She has a $92,000 401(k) retirement plan. So if we get a divorce the equity in the house and her 401(k) will be the two largest assets to go into the 'pot' to be divided. Our vehicles are both brand new and making payments so there is no equity in them to go into the 'asset' pool. I want to keep the house if we don't reconcile as I work from home so my office is here along with all the equipment I need to do my job. She said she just would want her fair share out of the equity and does not want to be forced to cash in her 401(k) pension so basically the equity in the house she is allowed would be reduced by the amount of her 401(k).

I spoke to our bank and basically they would need the court order but then they could refinance the house in my name only and also give the allotted extra amount needed to pay her off all at the same low interest rate of around 3.5%. If I borrow the money to pay her off without the court order then it is treated as a cash option at higher interest.....not sure why anyone would do that.
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Old 17th August 2015, 04:18 AM   #25
chosen
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

Its not a question of her not wanting to cash in her pension now, that for her to decide, its what its all worth overall. In my case with my first marriage, My exes pension was worth the same as the equity of our small house, so I had the house(and mortgage) and he had his pension. As I was left with 3 children this was vitally important for me. If its the same there, what her pension is worth will be taken off what the equity is on the house, so you would get $92,000 more. I think that means that she would be entitled to about $28,000 from the house and would then have to rent somewhere presumably unless she can afford to get a loan on a small apartment.
You really need legal advise though but it sounds as if you have done good research already.

Its good that you have friends to help you out.

Last edited by chosen; 17th August 2015 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 17th August 2015, 08:37 AM   #26
ralfgarnett
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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Hi notDoneYet - I'm only catching on quick because I have a large support group around me of folks in their 40's and 50's ....so people who have been around the block a few times and they are really helping me a lot.

chosen - We do own our home...well I say own but we are buying it. We owe around $120,000 on it and bought it for $174,000 back in 2004. Current appraisal on it is somewhere around $268,000. She has a $92,000 401(k) retirement plan. So if we get a divorce the equity in the house and her 401(k) will be the two largest assets to go into the 'pot' to be divided. Our vehicles are both brand new and making payments so there is no equity in them to go into the 'asset' pool. I want to keep the house if we don't reconcile as I work from home so my office is here along with all the equipment I need to do my job. She said she just would want her fair share out of the equity and does not want to be forced to cash in her 401(k) pension so basically the equity in the house she is allowed would be reduced by the amount of her 401(k).

I spoke to our bank and basically they would need the court order but then they could refinance the house in my name only and also give the allotted extra amount needed to pay her off all at the same low interest rate of around 3.5%. If I borrow the money to pay her off without the court order then it is treated as a cash option at higher interest.....not sure why anyone would do that.
This really bugs me, that a cheating spouse that leaves their husband or wife because of infidelity is entitled to a share, in my book if they cheat or leave without good reason then they should not be allowed anything at all, I know it's the law but the law is often an ass, and morally I think it's totally wrong, they make their beds so should lie in them, and part of the penalty for their bad often destructive behaviours would be to not receive a share of anything, not a jot, nothing at all.
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Old 17th August 2015, 09:52 AM   #27
chosen
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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This really bugs me, that a cheating spouse that leaves their husband or wife because of infidelity is entitled to a share, in my book if they cheat or leave without good reason then they should not be allowed anything at all, I know it's the law but the law is often an ass, and morally I think it's totally wrong, they make their beds so should lie in them, and part of the penalty for their bad often destructive behaviours would be to not receive a share of anything, not a jot, nothing at all.
I agree but thats not the case. MY husband got far less than his ex, even though she met another man and divorced him. Mind you, like many who cheat, she blamed him anyway and didnt take responsibility for her actions, so she wouldnt have felt that she should have got less anyway.
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Old 17th August 2015, 11:29 AM   #28
Raymond
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

I understand how hurt you are but what about giving it three months then giving her the ultimatum? Her or you? That is not control as you are boldly taking a risk and inviting her back and she is deeply in the wrong because of her adultery. I think if you gave it much longer your marriage would be deeply affected by that relationship.

I agree with you that you cannot accept her back without an apology as the trust has been broken. She would need to cut off all contact with the woman to win back the trust which would take a long time to be established. If it was me I would give her the ultimatum straight away before serious damage is done, but you are you.
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Old 17th August 2015, 03:09 PM   #29
ralfgarnett
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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I agree but thats not the case. MY husband got far less than his ex, even though she met another man and divorced him. Mind you, like many who cheat, she blamed him anyway and didnt take responsibility for her actions, so she wouldnt have felt that she should have got less anyway.
To me it's so wrong, I know it's not the case, but I just think it is so morally unjust that a cheating wife or husband can get a share of everything, they are the ones that have been unfaithful and broken their marriage vows, and yet here they are gaining financial benefit because of their wrong doing, it stinks to me it really does, it's almost as if they are benefitting for their wrong doing.
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Old 17th August 2015, 04:15 PM   #30
chosen
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Re: And yet another "I love you but not in love with you" story

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To me it's so wrong, I know it's not the case, but I just think it is so morally unjust that a cheating wife or husband can get a share of everything, they are the ones that have been unfaithful and broken their marriage vows, and yet here they are gaining financial benefit because of their wrong doing, it stinks to me it really does, it's almost as if they are benefitting for their wrong doing.
yes but the legal system have other priorities. The first one being that the children have a home and are provided for, and the second being that both have enough to have some sort of home and income so they arent destitute. WHo did what isnt an issue to them.
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