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Old 11th April 2013, 11:36 AM   #136
Forever
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
Thanks forever and Downtown Now I am going armed with these to collect them at the airport.

Just one thing, my wife has thought that I have no say in what she does (affairs) since the first one. not just since she filed for divorce.
Understood...and now that she HAS filed for divorce, she may become even MORE brazen regarding that issue. But as long as you choose to try and remain in the relationship...whether as being married or even divorced and still living together, you will be exposed to her affairs...meaning experiencing the rage (both yours and hers) and fallout for any attempts to get her to put a stop to them.

If she refuses to live within moral boundaries (which I would wonder...what if YOU were the one having affairs?), then drawing ANY line in the sand will mean opening yourself up to being punished for any attempts to thwart her behavior. So the only "concern" that I can see with the advice of "establishing stronger personal boundaries for yourself" is that you must get your mind wrapped around the idea that it means just that...for YOURSELF, rather than OVER HER. Any more than that will result in WWIII in the household and driving her away and making you pay a hefty price for it.

If you WANT to coexist in peace, you cannot continue to see her as being "yours" or as having ANY rights over her...the best that you can hope for is that you can continue to exercise personal rights over yourself and over the well being of your children. She does not see HERSELF as "belonging" to you...apparently, you are now merely a means to her future ends...who knows how long she has viewed you this way.

Obviously she is inclined to cheat, and if she again hooks up with some unsuspecting bloke that is willing to take her on and house her...she will then take the girls and go...can you live with that? With the divorce looming, you will have no choice but to allow her...EXCEPT that you can start a "subtle" campaign in earnest to try to convince her that the girls will be nothing more than "excess baggage"...that a man will quickly tire of them and lose interest in her because of this...and that she is better off in a new relationship to leave them to your care.

Even visitation schedules are subject to violation...there is no guarantee that those times will be lawfully upheld. I have seen men whose ex wives have even taken the children out of the country...even with Court documents prohibiting that... and nothing was lawfully exercised to retrieve them. As a man, you have no rights it seems...so it is your best endeavor to make anything you want to seem to her as being her idea and beneficial to her.

She was recently willing to abandon them initially until you appealed to her on some level and "changed" her perception...maybe you can change that back yet again given enough time to do so.

May I ask what country she came from? Russia? Reason I ask is because if that is the case, I have a step daughter who is in the Peace Corp there in Georgia now...she tells us of the vast cultural and economic differences there...and especially the way relationships are perceived between men and women there.

Last edited by Forever; 11th April 2013 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 11th April 2013, 05:38 PM   #137
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

One of the main reasons that young women from other countries want to marry Foreigners from well developed countries is to have a better quality of life...I am supposing that you knew this going into this arrangement.

My stepdaughter lives with a "host family" in the Republic of Georgia (formerly Russia) and teaches English. She says that their primary reason for wanting to learn English is so that they are better equipped to get a higher education and then move out of the country with some marketable skills...and the young women there groom themselves to marry older successful men to escape the life they have.

I suppose there is nothing wrong with that in and of itself...it is just that the opportunities to really get to know a person's culture, family history, and temperament...as well as motives, values and belief system, cannot be well established the way you (and scores of others) do this over such a short period of time.

That said,

It may be, (depending on where she comes from), that domestic violence is the "norm"...as is verbal abuse and screaming. I know that my stepdaughter says the whole region that she is in accepts this and thinks nothing is amiss living that way...the police will not even answer a domestic violence call until it becomes a death...they do not even classify it as murder...then they only show up to remove the body and write down a few statements and observations...case closed. I was surprised when you used the term "reckless"...my stepdaughter says that is THE primary word that she would have used for how she describes the behavior of the average Georgian in their everyday life.

She says that the women there are forced to "wear the pants" (and have the majority of the responsibility for doing virtually everything in the family...including providing financially) because the men drink throughout the entire day and barely work...their social life comes first...only one out of ten men have steady work. The women are very stoic and freely show their frustration and anger, and show very little natural affection...even towards their children. Their temperament is permanently woven into them from their family dynamics. Their happiness is measured by their possessions rather than by their character...and they take a very "clinical" approach to who they select to marry...every day is a struggle to live w/o being abused in some way...and eventually, they become an abuser too.

If your wife was hoping for a better life...losing that house was probably the worst thing that could have happened... circumventing how she envisioned what she was going to get from you. A trip to Mexico probably just looked like a big waste of money to her. I am guessing that she was only 20 years old when she answered the call for marriage to a Westerner...and I imagine (correct me if I am wrong) that you are considerably older than she is?

A woman who knows very little about the man she is about to marry will quickly become disillusioned when her PRIMARY agenda for having done so is interrupted by major economic downturns in her life. What this means is that if she did not establish a strong loving bond, she is likely to seek out another man who has more to offer.

Ditto for all the neighboring countries in Eastern Europe. Marrying a bride from the Philippines would have been a better risk...they do not believe in divorce under most circumstances...as they are brought up with very strong religious beliefs and have sweet temperaments bred into them.

When men short cut the grueling dating process in favor of a quick success, this is when it usually becomes problematic. I am not saying that it always ends up as being a big mistake...but it certainly tilts the numbers against the chances of success.

Last edited by Forever; 11th April 2013 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 18th April 2013, 01:44 PM   #138
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Forever and Chosen,

I can only tell you, at present, that I have had a similar argument with a friend, several times, about "these Russian women". I have simply told her that this is a racist vision of the people (especially women) of Eastern Europe, just as it is about Philipino women and 'their loyalty to marriage'. Any generalisation is plain racist and I resent it to the extent that I have heard the same sh1t about the people of my country of origin, as I am not British by birth.

The people in Eastern Europe, Phillipines, where I come from or anywhere else in the world are as different from each other as they are in the UK, USA or wherever. And I know as I have had a great interest in the people and culture of my wife's country of origin, since I was a teenager. It is no coincidence that I went to that country looking for a wife, not because I got a mail order catalogue through the post. I have travelled there several times and I met a lot of women before I got to my wife, I learned who was a liar, opportunist, naive, good, hard working, family oriented, etc. Among these I also learned, from the very beginning, who was good but not really interested in me and who was interested in me but an opportunist. My wife was certainly a good one who was interested in me. I think I have said before that I never bought her a present or took her to expensive places, our dates were in pizza places. She also insisted on having a job as soon as she knew enough English and got some training in her career (her university degree was of no use in the UK). Any opportunist expects her Western husband (and I know that there are a lot of opportunists like this in the West) to support her and lavish her with presents while she stays at home, giving orders to the servants and doing her pretty face.

Keep talking about me going to pick a wife in a mail order dating trip, if you like, but it took me 5 years of looking to find my wife.

The only thing that would be wrong is to go looking for a wife in a country where they are supposed to be 'safe' wives, or where they have a reputation for being beautiful and meek and not because you have a particular interest in that country, its people and its culture.

Among the zillion hurtful things that my wife has said in the Fog of her affair, she has NEVER told me that I am too old for her. I will have you know that many of those women regard an older man as being a lot more reliable over younger men.

I have said several times, that a number of her friends from university, in her country, are doing pretty well, so why marry a foreigner to get a better standard of living. That anybody from one of those countries is bound to have a higher standard of living in the UK or the USA is also racist in the extreme. The same has been said about me: "You only came here to escape poverty in your country", when my relatives 'back home' are all richer than me. I came to the UK as it was here where I could do the type of work I wanted and live in a culture that I always liked.

I understand and relate to my wife's idea for coming to the UK 100%. I know exactly what it is like to be a foreigner in this country.The bugger she was seeing is English and will never be able to identify with her just as he will never be able to identify with her troubled childhood. My wife and I were both abused by one parent while the other one looked on.

So keep giving me this crap that my wife and I do not have anything in common being from different countries and of a different age. If you were right, the marriage would not have lasted one year. My wife was faithfull during the first 9 years of our marriage, so don't keep giving me this rubbish that she is naturally like this. We have a friend whose husband was already cheating on her when she was pregnant with her first baby. He is unfaithfull by nature. That my wife's personality disorder got worse and it translated into cheating, wanting a nice house, presents, having turns, etc. is a problem that I am trying to look at.

Yet another offensive comment: 'my wife had an agenda coming to this country', like she was a dormant Russian spy getting settled here and waiting for instruction in 10 years time to become a full time agent. Please, cut it... my wife did not even have an idea of what she would do, in 5 months time, about moving with the children to the county where the boyfriend is well established. She said she was going there and it is set in concrete that our children are going to study in the superior schools we have been trying hard to get them admitted in the town where we live. My youngest daughter has just been admitted to start school where my elder daughter studies, next September, and my wife is all for it. That is how well planned her agenda is.

It is because I want to see if I can recover the wife I had in the first 9 years that I am leaving the door open on the odd chance that I can recover her.

How prejudiced you are about men looking for a wife abroad and the women of those countries. It can only be resentment against these foreign women, and the men who go there looking for them.

If you really want to learn about the people and customs of one of those countries you mention, go and live there for a few years and stop watching TV programmes whose producers know people like to be told how much better off we are in the West.

Last edited by freddie; 18th April 2013 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 18th April 2013, 02:21 PM   #139
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Freddie,

I stand corrected. We are just trying to figure out this problem and looking for any possible reasons for this change in her behavior. I did not say that any of my proposals were true...I said "if" and "perhaps" "it may be" or "maybe" because I did not know. I have not owned a TV for thirty years, so I do not get my info from that source...I get it from people who have already gone through some of these things, and from research as well as common sense.

I am no racist...I do however, take into consideration what is commonly known about people from other cultures...their life style and temperments that are an acceptable way of behaving.

I said "your wife is obviously prone to cheating"...I did say that based on the fact that this is her second "go around" over the last year that you are aware of...not just guessing.

I was just throwing out a scenario based on what my stepdaughter is observing over there in Russia where she lives among the people, and is caught up in their way of life in that particular region. So if it does not fit, ignore it.

Is your wife still determined to let the divorce move forward?

Last edited by Forever; 18th April 2013 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 18th April 2013, 02:26 PM   #140
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Freddie,

I stand corrected. We are just trying to figure out this problem and looking for any possible reasons for this change in her behavior. I did not say that any of my proposals were true...I said "if" and "perhaps" "it may be" or "maybe" because I did not know. I have not owned a TV for thirty years, so I do not get my info from that source...I get it from people who have already gone through some of these things, and from research as well as common sense.

I was just throwing out a scenario based on what my stepdaughter is observing over there in Russia where she lives among the people, and is caught up in their way of life in that particular region. So if it does not fit, ignore it.

Is your wife still determined to let the divorce move forward?
Yes..........
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Old 18th April 2013, 03:07 PM   #141
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Okay...let's use logic.

She wont go to counseling or see a clinical psychologist to determine what is ailing her.

She has filed for divorce.

You would like her to stay with you regardless.

We do not know what is wrong with her and neither do you.

So, let's assume that she is either mentally ill, or that she is just selfish as was proposed...either way, because we really do not know and do not have a name for it or a proper evaluation that considers all things.

How about implementing the list I gave you? It should work to bring about the best chance for harmony for as long as she does stay there whether she is ill or just selfish.

If she spirals into worse behavior regardless of your best efforts to bring peace into the relationship, then she will end up paying natural consequences, or she will leave in spite of your efforts. What more can you do if she wont get the physical/mental evaluation???

We do not have a team of clinical psychologist here...we just try to help point people to possible solutions in order to get them stabilized. We are free, and use our personal time to try and help...sometimes you get what you pay for. It is up to them to get the professional help if they can. Otherwise, they have to use common sense as well as tactics that are proven and time tested to be of help in situations such as this.

What do you think?
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Old 18th April 2013, 04:34 PM   #142
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Maybe Downtown will return...he is another nice fellow who has gone through hell and back, and is kind enough to try and help others who seem to have similar problems. From all the posts he has done here, he has not come for advice...but to help.

I have never known of a single person in my neck of the woods who ever spoke resentment regarding "our men" going for foreign brides. I personally do not care WHERE you get your bride from. My observations are simply based on the fact that when you reach out for a spouse from a different culture, that you need to understand that particular culture as well as the background of the one you have an interest in. This holds true for even those considering someone of the SAME culture...you need enough information about them so that you can understand what their strengths are vs what weaknesses will surface over time.

If the women in my country are so self centered and substandard that the men here do not want them...tough. Ditto for the men. I do not care and I have no prejudice whatsoever against any race or culture. My duty is to understand that there ARE vast differences nevertheless that have to be taken into account so that we can help.

Age does often play a factor in marital problems as well. Perhaps not in yours as you say...but if we don't ask, we wont know if some of that is not rearing it's head. Of the two BF's that your wife went for, were they more her age, or yours?

Reason I do ask is because women may have different expectations from a man of her own age rather than from one who is considerably older...sometimes, they "tire" of a man who seems less exciting than he did in years past. We see that often here...women who simply get bored with what they have because their husband's are much older, become stagnant and have reached the pinnacle of their potential. Is there any possibility of this coming into play? I was not referring to your appearance...I was asking about if the age difference could have net a difference in how she now perceives you.
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Old 18th April 2013, 10:07 PM   #143
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Okay...let's use logic.



You would like her to stay with you regardless.


How about implementing the list I gave you? It should work to bring about the best chance for harmony for as long as she does stay there whether she is ill or just selfish.



What do you think?
Stay with me regardless of what?

I have already started implementing the list. When I went to pick them up at the airport, we spent 4.5 hours in the car and the motorway cafe hardly saying anything. Like with the Queen I do not speak to her (in general) unless I am spoken to.

However, the other day, first thing in the morning, I saw in the bathroom panty pads saturated with blood. She has heavy periods, so I could not resist the temptation, I told her I saw the pads and asked her if she was OK to go to work, She said yes. Maybe I should not have approached her but I can't help caring about her.

This evening she cooked dinner for me too. Normally I would have turned it down, but today I accepted it, sat with the girls to eat and said thank you for dinner. Then I went into my office and she sent one of my daughters with a slice of cake for me. I told my daughter to say thank you. Then she sent the other daughter to tell me well done for cleaning the oven. I sent her back to say thank you again. It is some kind of re-start.
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Old 18th April 2013, 10:12 PM   #144
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Listen Forever, if I had gone to ask you and Chosen, for advice, when I had just met my future wife, and I had told you all the 'vast' differences between us, both of you would have said I do not give the marriage 6 months, let alone have children. But then I would have ignored you, wouldn't I?
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:20 PM   #145
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Stay with me regardless of what?

I have already started implementing the list. When I went to pick them up at the airport, we spent 4.5 hours in the car and the motorway cafe hardly saying anything. Like with the Queen I do not speak to her (in general) unless I am spoken to.

However, the other day, first thing in the morning, I saw in the bathroom panty pads saturated with blood. She has heavy periods, so I could not resist the temptation, I told her I saw the pads and asked her if she was OK to go to work, She said yes. Maybe I should not have approached her but I can't help caring about her.

This evening she cooked dinner for me too. Normally I would have turned it down, but today I accepted it, sat with the girls to eat and said thank you for dinner. Then I went into my office and she sent one of my daughters with a slice of cake for me. I told my daughter to say thank you. Then she sent the other daughter to tell me well done for cleaning the oven. I sent her back to say thank you again. It is some kind of re-start.
Regardless of the fact that she has filed for divorce...

I was under the impression that you might consider keeping her around even so, so that you might have a chance to get her some help??? I mean, is there a LAW that says divorced people cannot still live in the household if they can get along? I was thinking that in time, if you do the things on the list and not add to the problem...maybe she will calm down and have second thoughts about the direction she is heading...maybe even question herself enough to be willing to get help. It may be a long shot, but what do you have to lose at this point?

Last edited by Forever; 18th April 2013 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 18th April 2013, 11:46 PM   #146
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Listen Forever, if I had gone to ask you and Chosen, for advice, when I had just met my future wife, and I had told you all the 'vast' differences between us, both of you would have said I do not give the marriage 6 months, let alone have children. But then I would have ignored you, wouldn't I?
Of course, as strangers, you would have ignored either of us if we said something that you simply did not want to hear....you could say that we did not know you/her and as such, dont know what we are talking about. You could probably do the same thing with those closest to you also...saying that they are not wanting your happiness simply because they point out some potential problems that they "see" coming up on the horizon, but it is YOUR life. I dont know that I would have said that the marriage would not have lasted six months however...I would not bet on a horse, so why would I bet on the complexities of humans in love or humans at war?

I probably would have suggested investing a lot more time than you were able to in getting to know each other and what kind of background you both came from...what is expected and acceptable and what is not. I would have suggested waiting to have children until you had been together and bonded well for a couple of years first. But you said that she was fine with you in the beginning...so that makes me wonder what happened during the last couple of years to change her mind.

We fall in love before we really know enough sometimes dont we? Then we have to work out all the bugs if we want any harmony...and if the person we love is willing. There are "arranged" marriages all over the world. Depending on the culture, they just suck up the differences or play out their role as to what is expected...but many do well regardless of knowing very little about each other....especially in a culture where divorce is a big taboo.

I could come on here and razzzel dazzel you with all kinds of statistics, psychobabble, and impressive stories. But that does not help YOUR reality that you have to live daily. What I wanted to do was to get an idea about what was happening in your household on a daily basis...when it suddenly changed for the worse, and then give you some "tools" to use to try and reclaim the marriage before she leaves or has another affair. I think the only chance you have is to keep to the list as best as you can, tweak it if necessary, and see if there comes a change in her attitude towards you.
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Old 19th April 2013, 12:15 AM   #147
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

I am happy to hear that you are indeed implementing the list. Since she is having her monthly now, that means in two weeks things can easily take a change for the worse...so watch those cycles and hunker down. Be very careful regarding your responses to anything she says...take the time to think before you speak.

You can show concern for her well being...good grief, you would do that for anyone regardless right? There is nothing on the list that prohibits kindness or concern for a person...just do not ask anything of her...nor talk about the relationship or what she has done/or is doing. You should do very well if you realize that it has an end goal of keeping the atmosphere peaceful and stable.
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Old 19th April 2013, 01:36 AM   #148
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Freddie, thanks so much for coming back to give us an update on what happened after you picked them up at the airport. I was wondering how that went. I wish the best for you and your family.
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Old 19th April 2013, 04:09 AM   #149
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Hi Downtown,
Whilst waiting for Freddie to reappear, could you look at Corduroycape's posts? Specifically post #4 dead center line?
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Old 19th April 2013, 05:29 AM   #150
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Listen Forever, if I had gone to ask you and Chosen, for advice, when I had just met my future wife, and I had told you all the 'vast' differences between us, both of you would have said I do not give the marriage 6 months, let alone have children. But then I would have ignored you, wouldn't I?
You are making wrong assmptions, however marriage between those who dont know each other that well, and from those of different cultures, are more likely to fail than those from the same culture and where the couple have spent lots of time together with family and friends and seen each other in ther own home territory. I have nothing against marriage between different nationalities, indeed my own husband is Autralian, but he had been living here for 18 years when we met and the UK and Australia are similar in many ways. I personally would never go looking for a marriage partner from any other country, and cant understand why anyone would with millions and and millions of available people in our own country. Just my opinion.
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