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Old 30th July 2010, 08:56 PM   #2011
1aokgal
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Dear Dakereb..

You sound discouraged and resigned. I think I am at that point of arrival where reality says.."this is it, it is all there will ever be."
How do I feel about that? There is no hope for anything better, with him or anyone else at this stage .
OK..it is all it can be. We live together. He sleeps in the other room since the illness and that frees me from uncomfortable emotions as anger to sleep beside him. I must get into renewed zest to work on my own health and appearance..do things I enjoy to do. He is going through chemo with months to go. Though he is now cancer free there are still months ahead in treatments. The financial loss has been staggering with income loss and MED bills ahead. Lucky we carried no large obligations or it would be worse. We hope he can return to work perhaps October.

I leave in a few days vacation/rest for 5 days to a place in upper NY. A charming victorian town and famous for the landmarks/activities there in the summer season, two months. He encourages the getting away and says I need a break from him. How true. I love that kind of place and thought to go for some years. There are many activities scheduled and 20,000 descend on that little town each season. I made reservations and preset tickets to events. The last day I will drive about 50 miles to
Niagara Falls and ride the tour boat to the edge of the falls. We went there on the honeymoon..29 years ago.

Too bad no one to go along but I know a group from here who will be there a day after and we plan to connect. I plan to stay one extra day after but can go do some of the sights together.
I read about this place and one lady with this church trip group has been there each year for 30 years. It is just the place I need for some fresh air. Just hope he will take good care of the animals especially my german shepherd, Canto, who I will miss terribly.

Hello, Bear, hope you get a chance to get away for a few days.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 2nd August 2010 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 31st July 2010, 01:37 AM   #2012
Dakereb
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Gypsey, I know EXACTLY how you feel! It is tempting to do something to wake them up, isn't it?

Keep yourself busy and in shape, and don't allow yourself to stew in anger. That anger will ruin everything in your life. Don't let that happen. When you find yourself feeling the anger well up, force yourself to do something constructive, like take a walk around the block or some other activity that will increase your self-worth. You can't let your self-esteem get smashed by this, so keep after doing things to improve yourself.

Aokgal, yes, there is an overarching feeling of resignation in my life, and it's reflected in my post. As I mentioned to Gypsey, I am directing my anger and despair toward doing things for myself. Much like you, I plan on a solo vacation in the fall. Perhaps I will drive out west, maybe the Grand Canyon, I don't know yet, but somewhere where I can be in solitude and peace. I'll take landscape photos, and get a better perspective on myself and my life.

Of course, the wife thinks this is a good idea. I think she would care not a whit if I took a female companion along. I don't know anyone well enough for that, but I am beginning to see it as possible. It had been so far beyond what I would consider doing, but as it has become clear to me that this "marriage" is not and never was real, it's now seeming almost inevitable. But this time, I need a quiet retreat.
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Old 5th August 2010, 11:47 AM   #2013
shazee
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Hi, as a muslim we believe that it is a sin by cheating on your partner, the same is true in the Bible. However we are also told that if or when our human frailties hinder us then we either stay with our partners, in which case we will be rewarded in the hereafter, or we can decide to break away from our partner for mutual benefit. This way we can get on with our own lives without regrets.
For example if one of the partners was highly sexed and the other was not then there is no sin if they divorce in order to carry on with a 'natural' life as they should have. The alternative is to live together 'unhappily' for one partner.
Either way it would be legal unless one of them 'cheats'.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 06:56 AM   #2014
1aokgal
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

It has been awhile since I checked in here and sad to see most are in the same place they were. This is a painful subject and everyone has their own coping skills but we are all at the control of another who denies sex and intimacy in a marriage. That just sucks.

I can say most of the time I stay busy with the myriad details of life. It is enough to enjoy things as we did today when we ate lunch together at a favorite oceanside restaurant. Cute and casual, we used to pull the boat alongside and tie to the dockside the pier there and eat at the rnoon. Normally, this time of year we would bring the boat to this dockside restaurant. We would sit on the picnic benches and enjoy great seafoood. The smell of the nearby fishing boats and sights on the water maskes it a place of beauty. Due to his illness we did not get the boat out of drydock since last summer. I have a few friends who would like to go with me but just did not choose to go. We hope his Cancer will soon be a thing of the past as he soon completes all chemo treatments.

Dakereb, your friend had the same treatments and good end result. My husband has the same treatment plan and soon will be ready for the final surgery. It has been a nine month battle. Thanks for this encouraging story. I am sorry to see your resignation to a life lived not fully but that is typical of long marriages with this problem. There are many considerations as children, grandchildren, finances, and social relationships that impact decisions. The reality is that divorced people do poorly financially because there is half the income with the same responsibilities for living as when there were two. The income half and houses lost and people who form sides as to who failed in the marriage. What took years to accumulate is split with poverty on both ends.

Intimacy is not ALL of a marriage. It is part of the love that launched two people into a lifetime commitment of marriage. The loss experienced by one married to a person who no longer has desire for the other or who fails to maintain a moral committment because of addictions to porn, masturbation or a desire to control the sex doled out (like a miser) is overwhelming. I was there and I am there. We can use all those tools of life as substitution (work, animals, hobbies), sublimation (as in just not thinking about it but simmering or depression). There are many ways to shove down the sad feelings from day to day. No matter how we cut it this way of life damages the ego and self esteem. I think many struggle with depression, shame and feelings of failure. The partner..the withdrawn one, is fine. They go on merrily with life as they choose to live it and oblivious to the others' pain or attempts to cope. I don't think my husband would have been too surprised if I chose to have an affair. I do think he would be outraged and feel the victim. That is because the way we live is not a problem for him....it is mine.
Tell me if I am wrong. THEY have no problem with the life they choose.

Most of us battle with shock at finding ourselves in such a mess. Some of us have good relationships with the spouse as we love and respect them. My husband tells me daily he loves me. What can be in his head? It is particularly sad to love another who has no concept of how a marriage should be lived. One can spend a great deal of time trying to find answers like tqwenty questions on the "Why" of it. All that is a waste of time. The best course is to do as Dakereb and find happiness as best he can. If that encompasses an affair for some than who is to judge? The dealbreaker has committed by the partner.

It helps that this site is a good place to ventilate..find answers for some..or just to post when we think on life as it stands. The days are good for me most of the time. If I could relive some years, it would be when I could love him years ago. That would be when I understood him and he cared about the path of my heart. That was the best of times. This is not the worst it could be but it is not my finest hour.
When I go to that next life I hope someone might remember I knew how to love and I did okay in how I lived. Maybe that is the best we get?

Last edited by 1aokgal; 3rd September 2010 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 5th September 2010, 11:36 PM   #2015
Dakereb
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Aokgal, I pray that your husband fully recovers. I assume the next surgery is to reattach the colon? In any event, I wish no one would have to suffer like he is suffering, not just the physical pain, but the psychological trauma of knowing he is living with cancer. We all know we will one day die, but when one hears such news, it still sends a shiver down the spine.

You once had love, and he still tells you he loves you. In hindsight, I see that I never had love. She even tells me this. She does not say "I love you" anymore, and when she did she was not sincere. I can't save the marriage because it never really existed. But our lives are intertwined in so many ways, financially, socially, and with family, that it's not likely we will technically divorce.

Shazee, thank you for your input. It is always enlightening to see how other religions and other cultures deal with these issues. In this case they are not so far apart, the difference being that in my religion we would say that the justification for divorce is that the marriage simply did not actually exist. In many ways that is true.
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Old 7th September 2010, 08:34 AM   #2016
1aokgal
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Good evening
It is customary for me to get to this site when all tasks end... so very late at night.
Shazee, I too find it interesting in how your religion looks at the problems we post here.

Yes, Dakereb, the surgery will be to reattach the colon. Lucky on many fronts..that his cancer was stage one and lovated on outer part of colon. He had radiation done to shrink back a tumor a few centimeters so the area could be salvaged. They rebuilt the section there. Then the ileostomy surgery so he had months of chemo. His surgeon says he has healed well as they hoped and had that surgery not been possible to save muscles there... then things would stand and nothing further could be done. As it stands now, he expects to reattach mid October if all goes well during these last exams. The aesthetics of living with this condition is just awful for someone. I did not hear this before but colon cancer is all over his family tree. There are no children with him or that might be a concern. My daughter almost four when we married.

Your coping skills are about where you were last year. It has been one of shock and hurt for you to hear that "you were never loved." I wonder if that is truth..or that is the deepest cut that one who is angry can give you at this point? In any case, it reeks of cruelty and one frigid babe!
Sorry, you got bounced with that hammer as most would be kind just so if a split came about the excess hate dosen't kill a property split. She cares nothing about your sensibilities so if I were in your shoes I would keep that echo in my head and rationalize returning some uncharitable responses. I know ...that escalates the battleground but really...that is pretty raw stuff.

Doing something nice for myself I signed up for a two day class with a fine and well know portrait artist. My work is good but he has found me out that I cheat a lot to get that work on canvas and has me faulted for my lack of drawing skill. I am painterly and by pass some of the work a good painter does to draw it. Back to basics. OUCH! When one is a lot self taught we jump across to get to the end results. He was considerd a child prodigy and not only a great painter but composer of fine music. He has taken my lack of formal training to heart and wants to get me to a better point. Either that, Or he wonders why he gets them without the best art school resumes. My work is good but the secret is I cheat! Fun to do something I like so well. He emails me every couple days and critiques photos of the work I sent him. that is really nice.

Hope others will find what gives them joy and get that special self appreciation spark because a marriage lacking all intimacy is a kick in the pants for our confidece, isn't it?

Last edited by 1aokgal; 8th September 2010 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 19th September 2010, 04:31 PM   #2017
bluebellatina
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Hi 1aokgal, My husband was also addicted to porn. It didn't matter how hard I tried he turned me down but regularly masturbated
over porn becuse he prefered it. I have recently given up on him for two reasons. Firstly 17 years ago when I was very attractive, very slim, sexually
Confident and in my early twenties my husband constantly regected me sexually whilst incresing he reliance on porn and masterbation. I am
Now I am nearly 40, still slim-only half a stone haevier, still atractive-just older with no sexual condidence at all. There really is no point.
If porn was better than me when I was in my early twenties then my attempt to seduce him now are laughable/pointless. This realisation
Is ablessing to me because I have given up. Like your husband he has recenlt
Been ill. Not as seriously as your husband. I found that the anger in side me had turned to hatred and rage. I found it extremely
Difficult to look after him. My thinking went like this- why should I wash you, dress you, care for you? Is this my only worth? Is this
All I'm here for? Talk about getting the rubbish jobs. When he was ill he needed help with washing and I am ashamed to say that
I actually sugested that he ring the young girls that he masterbates on to see if they would help as I think this job should be shared out.
More equally. He went crazy. I appologised but the thought was still there everytime I provided the minimum of care for him. He is a good husband
In all other ways but I feel this is too much of abig area to mess up in. Also he has lost his looks and is now very unatractive and
Often has poor hygeine. I think other men would not be so quick to let themselves go like this due being affraid of loosing out
Sexually. But I've come to realise that for a man like my husband it doesn't matter what he looks or smells like when he is sat
On chair in front of computer masterbating. I have recently taken a major step by being open and honest with poeple about our marraige.
I don'( cover up for him anymore to close friends and family. I feel less isolated and less like its my dirty little secret. I have told him
I don't love him and want to leave. He understands this but seems to want the marraige to continue. We are financially tied and have 3
Children so splitting up will be difficult. He says he loves me and wants me to give him another chance. I've heard this 7-8 times before
So now find his promises impossible to believe. The odd time we do have sex it is awful-i am 100percent sure he would prefere to be on his own
Masterbating over young girls. This is a real turn off for me and inow think he is repulsive. Any thoughts?
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Old 19th September 2010, 06:36 PM   #2018
chosen
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

bluebellatina
I have great admiration for you and others in your position who have put up with your husbands awful behaviour for so long.
I am a Christian and believe that divorce is only as a last resort, but I do believe that porn with masturbation are very serious and damaging sexual sins and should be treated as such. In your position I would have given him an ultimatum a long time ago, the porn or me, and made sure we went to counselling and that he got help to stop this addiction.

If he chose the porn then I would have left until he changed his mind(if he did). He is being unfaithful with hundreds of other women, he has broken his vows to be faithful to you and has damaged you emotionally.
Of course he wants to stay married. Why should he not? He has a wife who allows his addiction and doesnt set any boundaries or conditions for the marriage to carry on. Have you ever actually said to him that if he doesnt stop you will leave? I do know women who have done this and their husbands have actually stopped, but you have to mean it. He will know if you dont.
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Old 19th September 2010, 06:45 PM   #2019
Raymond
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

This is just awful Bluebell. Anyone who carries on like that is not qualified to be married in my view. I always call it mental adultery because that is what it really is. He is obviously addicted and unable to function in the normal way. I haven't heard of it this bad for quite a while and you have been robbed of normal intimacy all these years and shared your bed with this poison.

I think in certain circumstances it is grounds for divorce unless the husband is really fighting to get the victory over it. It is disgusting just reading it as sexual intimacy is only for the married couple alone and not to be shared with all these screen floosies. He has robbed it of all it's inherent beauty and robbed you.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 03:39 AM   #2020
1aokgal
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Hi Bluebellatina..

You are wise enough to realize a pattern set for so many years is unlikely to changed with threats on your part or ultimatums. Those would be empty words for a woman to say "I'll leave if you don't..." I know because I said those similar words. I made all those moves..the tears, coaxing, flamenco lessons, diets, sexy moves and clothes and even to point of saying," be with me tonight or I leave this room with that man over there."
Yes, I said all that. Would I have done that? Unlikely. That would not be my style to harm myself to teach him a lesson.

When one has shared a history 20+ plus years, children and years of the type of emotional abuse which has been heaped on your confidence, your sexual identity, your feelings as a wife and woman..there is not leaving you can do. If there was a great looking man waiting in the wings, a woman who experiences this treatment has no ability to crawl between the sheets and let the natural occur.
Even if she has no conscience to be with another..too much damage has been done.

That is where you are now, dear, depressed, and angry, angry, angry. I would say rage is an understatement! Hate is a fire that burns from within. You hate him for the cruelty of what he has done, to the promise that was your life. Of course, I understand. I am there..... only older and far removed from where you are today....further down the road of life. There is no alternate plan.

Now I think you are wrong to demean and belittle when the man is down. That is not kind of you and reflects on you more than you know. It will hurt you more to pay him back..you won't like yourself for that unkindness. My husband may recover in some months and return to a job that keeps him gone most of the time. That will relieve me of some of the thoughts I have similar to how you feel. You wish he would rot in hell for the travesty of a marriage where a man prefers self manipulation to being man. Truth is..once a man is into the porn as he is..there is little desire to be "normal." The stimulation with actual sex is less than he can accomplish by himself. It is what he is used to do. Horrible, isn't it?

So this being said, dear lady, get off the pity party and work on your own interests, abilities, diet and exercise and beauty for YOU. Do not burn with hatred or wish him worse than he has in the illness. That just is counter productive to you.
Now ..you simply do NOT have to put up with dirty or less than reasonable hygiene on his part. You have a machine? Throw clothes, bed linens in the wash. Put out fresh for him. Tell himm..change his shirt, change his drawers..TAKE a shower! you stink..your feet stink..your body stinks. Here is a bar of soap. Here is the lather for a shave. Do not do things so personal you have to deal with his private parts. If he can lift it.....he can clean it.

I did not have intimacy with my husband for 19 years. That was by his choice. So, I do not help him with his illeostomy or intimate tasks. If he has a problem..that is his problem. I won't ask for his intimate help ever. That is how I feel about it. If you are putting up with nasty hygiene then you need to work on your nastiest most confrontive style to turn that around.
It is not the time to bring up your elephant in the room, lack of sex, though...do you think? That is just not a way to peacefully co-exist. There may be a day in the future when he drops dead and you will go on with your life.

I disagree with fact you "don't cover up with him with family and friends." If you have let that out of the bag it has less to do with truth and more to do with paying him back with exposure. It is about you being the victim and showing him up. I say it probably was a poor idea. Believe me, I thought many times to tell his mother..your sweetie masculine son dosen't make it in the sack with his wife! I think though it would hurt HER worse than it would look bad for him. While she might feel sympathy for me, she would also feel very uncomfortable to know this about our bedroom. I think these things belong in the battleground of your home and not bring in extra players. There also is no way children should be given this info unless it might be an older daughter you feel close to. It is just too much info.

My best friend knows this and two men friends who know me well and don't know him. One man met him briefly. I know a lot about their lives and wives. it was a point
I confided for feedbck not for sympathy. One was good to talk to because he takes a male point in how I must feel. We only discussed this one time and never again. No, there is no agenda or relationship here. These men are happily married and younger.

This problem requires years of psychological help for a man. He has to want to change. That is not the case in your marriage or mine. Stop stewing in anger..it will make you sick. Turn a terrible thing into a good thing for you. Go back to school when you can.....take up a hobby..love your animals and children. Sorry..so sorry this has happened for you.
Your Friend

Last edited by 1aokgal; 23rd September 2010 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 04:12 AM   #2021
Dakereb
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Bluebellatina, what you describe of your husband tells me he has a very serious addiction. An addiction like this is very hard to overcome, and I believe it is simply impossible to overcome without professional help.

It is likely that he does want to get rid of this addiction, but his poor hygiene tells me that he is depressed, probably because he has a low opinion of himself due to this addiction. He is essentially locked into a pattern that leads to further self-loathing, which makes it ever harder to break free.

You cannot change him. Only he can change himself, and unless you are a trained therapist, there is nothing you can do for him. So what do you do now? One one hand, I believe you are obligated by marriage to see him more as a human with a disorder, and less as a demeaning, self-absorbed narcissist. Since you are his wife, you are one of the few in a position to offer sympathy. But sympathy is NOT acceptance of the aberrant behavior. It does not mean you have to allow it to ruin your life. You also have an obligation to your kids to raise them in a healthy environment, and it appears that he makes the environment less that healthy. One day one of the kids will catch him in the act, or find pornography in the house or on the computer. This would have lasting negative effect on them and their relationship with him.

I know that as Christians we believe marriage is for life. However, I have always struggled with that idea when faced with circumstances such as you describe. Where is the line between our obligation to our marriage and our obligation to ourselves? Are we required to sacrifice our well-being in order to fulfill out commitment before God? God's ways are not man's ways, but is it a sin to end such a marriage, or is it a sin to fail to address your own well-being? Are you enabling him by shielding him from the consequences of his actions by staying with him? Would not the more humane thing to do in the long run be to allow him to suffer the consequences, thereby motivating him to finally get the professional help he needs? Does this mean thatthe moral course of action is to leave him? Perhaps so.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 04:33 AM   #2022
Dakereb
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

But whatever you do, it must be done without malice. Spite leads to regrettable actions and consequences. It poisons you. If his hygiene is reulsive to you, let him know that in a direct, unemotional way, free of spite. The message is that, while you do respect him as a human being, as a child of God, you have a problem with the porn addiction and the bad hygiene and find that you simply have to remove yourself from it. Do not attack his integrity, you can be sure he has more than enough self-loathing. All you should do is tell him how you feel about things, and do so in a way that is free of accusation and anger. He will see that you are simply doing what you need to do for yourself, not doing things just to hurt him. He then cannot shift blame for his behavior to you. He will be forced eventually to come to grips with his issues. And perhaps he will find just enough self-respect to actually do it one day.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 06:37 AM   #2023
chosen
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

dakereb
Good post
In the Bible Jesus does say that divorcing for 'pornea' is allowed.The word pornea means many different types of sexual immorality and not just adultery. Long term porn and masturbating is surely sexual immorality, therefore can be grounds for divorce as a last resort, if God leads that way.I actually know a Christian lady who divorced her husband for this, when she found out that he was looking at porn with their small children playing in the same room.She knew that God was leading her to do this, and in fact he is now only allowed once a week supervised acces to the children, thats how seriosusly the judge viewed it. So sad.

1aokgal
I have heard of cases where the husband did get help and stopped when the wife either left, or said she would if it didnt stop. For some men it is the shock that is needed to actually stop.(or at least get the help needed to stop). It may not have worked for you but it does for some.
The alternative is to allow him to carry on ruining the marriage, the spouse, and yes, he will also be damaging the children. You cant have these things going on in a house and not be affected by it. Yes there is a history and children, but to stay and allow him to keep on with this, is deadly for him and everyone else. As a Christian he is on a very slippery slope unless he stops. Is it easy to seperate? Of course not, but sometimes it is the ONLY way to stop it. What is the alternative?
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Old 22nd September 2010, 01:23 PM   #2024
Raymond
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

I totally agree with that. In fact I started a long thread about it on another site.

I would also put pornography into the category of immorality which Jesus makes a concession to regarding divorce on his sermon on the subject. You will get lots of legalists disagreeing but keeping the spirit of it it is adultery in one's heart to even lust after another woman and therefore can be grounds for divorce in my view.

Chosen sorry to override your thread earlier. Your post wasn't there when I posted but then it appeared just ahead of mine, so I wasn't ignoring you.
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Old 22nd September 2010, 01:59 PM   #2025
chosen
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Re: Living In A Sexless Marriage

Raymond, no worries, I didnt notice!!
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