Help! How do you know if it's really over?

[alwaysl8]

I'm new and lost.

I'm not even sure where to begin...

I'm not one for fairytale love - I married my husband because he was my rock; honest, dependable, supportive and loved me more than anybody I'd ever met. We had our issues in the beginning, struggling to find a power balance (both being independent, strong headed people) but the journey brought us closer; it made us feel we could get through anything... Fast forward 7 years and he left last week.

I think back, trying to figure out where it all went wrong and most of my conclusions lead me to his job. A year after we got married, we had a baby. Like most new families, we struggled financially and he saw this as a failure on his part and I think I did too. When our son was 3 months old, he took a job that meant he was away most of the time. We went from being inseparable, to seeing each other 3 days a month and the odd evening. I was consumed with being a new mum and having to work, plus keep the house (I went back 6 weeks after my son was born) - he was consumed with making us financially stable again. At the time, we both thought we were doing what needed to be done but as months past, unknowingly, he became a visitor in our home. He was becoming a stranger, no longer a key player in our day to day. As we drifted, so did all the reasons we had married each other - he wasn't dependable, he stopped putting me first, making me feel special. I know he feels the same way.

We talked and talked but nothing really changed, we were in a rut. It's been so long since we lived like a couple, that now I'm not even sure who he is. Is he still the man that I married or have the last two years changed us to the point that we no longer fit together? The distance grew and arguing made no real difference to our time together - we barely spoke anyway. We knew we were heading for trouble and spoke about the need for him to be part of the house again, to start doing things as a couple - date nights, movies and a take-away but everything always fizzled out and we'd go back to not speaking, only smiling if my son did something funny or cute. Eventually, he said we needed to accept it was over. He's been gone a week and conversation has been limited to my son. Yesterday we went out as a family (an annual event we attend) and it was nice. it was nice to be with him, nice to be a family - he felt that way too. We both still love each other but we're so confused. Things have been declining for months, into years and it can't continue. I just don't know if what I am feeling is the pain of letting a relationship go or whether it's because I actually don't want it to be over. We are both so fed up of not being good enough, I'm not sure we even have the strength to keep fighting.

How do you know if it's over, when you still love each other? I don't want to let him go if we have a chance but is that what I'm feeling? or is it just fear and I'm reaching out because I want the pain to go away? We are both the sort of people that keep pushing on, so if we don't work out whether to 'try' or not, we'll get to a point that there will be no going back because we will have shut each other out completely. I feel like we're on the clock.

Has anybody out there ended a relationship where you both still love and want it to work but just don't think it will?

[chosen]

You are both still the people who you married, but when you are separated for long periods, have a new baby to deal with as well as working, and financial problems, its puts pressures on the marriage.

MY two pieces of advise would be.
1) he searches for a job where he can be at home every night and weekends, even if this means you have to move, and
2) you get some long term marriage counselling that will help you to communicate better and and work through your issues.

Things never stay the same, and we all need to adapt to different circumstances. It would be so sad if you ended the marriage for not much reason. Also think of your child who needs their mum and dad.

[ronnoco]

I think that's really good advice. Personally, I would always rather look back with no regrets than think "I wish I had just..."

A lot will depend on how bad you want to fight. There was a post on here recently where this man had literally given up. I said he sounded lost and broken and he agreed. He had completely lost the will and didn't have the strength or energy to go on. He just wanted that chapter of his life over and to start again.

You and your husband sound like tough cookies though :-)

You may find that the separation gives you the absolute reality check you needed to put things into perspective. Family is more important than any job, house location, money - there is a solution to every problem, you just need to find it.

By the way, your feelings will be completely all over the place at the moment. I honestly felt like I lived in a bubble for best part of a year after my wife and I seperated. Google 5 stages of grief - you will find it useful.

All the best.

[Raymond]

When you say he left last night are you saying he has just gone?

It seems that you have drifted apart because of him being away such a lot. The danger is that things will happen by default by the sound of it as you are both losing the will to fight for the marriage. You do both have a lot to fight for and the marriage is worth saving. I am wondering if the work takes so much out of him whether he has the strength to work on things. It is obvious that something needs to change. If you both love each other I would stick in there and work out the problems. I would even recommend that you relax in the problems while you are working things out. Fear can rob you of things that are rightfully yours.

I notice that you say my baby instead of ours. Is that just a slip of the tongue or are you seeing yourself as already separated?

[alwaysl8]

Thank you for your replies.

I have suggested counselling but he acts like he didn't hear the words - he never flat out says no but just ignores me and when I push it, he just says he's not sure. I tried to be proactive and called someone to get some details; when i told him, he asked the cost and said nothing more.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and had actually thought that his job is a major blockage. When things were bad, I suggested we book a holiday, to try and reconnect and laugh again (pretty much the words I used, so he didn't miss the point!) he said it would have to wait 2 months because work was busy, a month passes and I bring it up again, he says it's still 2 months because something else has come up...this continued to happen. I first asked in February and by the time I finally stopped asking, he'd pushed it back to September. I was so disheartened. He saw no value in spending time together, just the importance of his job. He of course argues that he works hard for his family but what good is it if you work so hard that it costs you your family? Why can't he see that!

I'm worried now - since he left, he hasn't said he misses me, he loves me (other than when i say it first) or that he wants to work at it, so how can I possibly ask him to change his job, when he's not even acting like he wants to be with me.

I feel like the longer we live apart, we will continue to drift even further apart. I said this to him and whilst he agreed, he didn't say he didn't want that to happen or anything to give me any hope. Day after day, the only time I hear from him is to find out how our son got on at nursery - he never asks how I am.

Maybe I should accept he doesn't want me anymore? He said we need to accept it's over and so far, he's said nothing to the contrary - maybe I'm being too optimistic?

[chosen]

How about you book a counselling appt and tell him when it is? Say that you will go and you hope he will be there. If he doesnt come, you go anyway. I cant believe he even asked how much it was when your marriage is at stake.

Where has he gone do you know? Is there any possibility that there is someone else on the scene?

[alwaysl8]

I asked him to come over this evening to talk but he said he was busy. So asked whether he'd rather we just stick with his visit to see our son - he said fine, I'll see you Sunday. I feel like I want him to actually tell me that he doesn't want to work things out but I can't pretend like he's not sending me clear signals.

I've only seen him once since he left (Sunday) and he told me how nice i looked, being tactile but as soon as he left, it went back to being cold and distant. I have no intention of being used but it completely messed with my head.

He said he's staying with a friend (male) but whilst I know this friend, I don't have any means of contacting him, nor do I know where he lives.

My heart sank reading that last question. The truth is, I don't know. I'd like to hope not but he is constantly travelling and taking clients out, so I couldn't say for sure...

He's giving me so little to work with. I started this post feeling 50:50 about whether we could work things out but in a matter of day, it doesn't seem like he wants to. I don't understand how he can be so cold towards me. Him leaving literally throws my life up in the air. I'll need to move away, as I can't afford to live in this area, which means changing my son's nursery and moving away from my family. These aren't issues he has. How can he feel ok doing that? How can he not want to do all that he can to keep his son close by?

[chosen]

I think that the least he owes you is a clear account of what he is doing and why. He must also give you details of how you can contact him in an emergency. Its not fair him keeping you in this horrible situation where you really dont know where you are. Its a bit like what UKguy is going through, but he has allowed it to to carry on for a year now. You have a right to know what is happening, and I think you need to be firm about this.

I hope he isnt cheating, but the sort of job he has does lends itself to getting too close to people, and the fact that he didnt want a holiday is weird, because most people cant wait for time off.

Does he have family that you can talk to?

[alwaysl8]

He's not good at expressing his feelings and in the past, has needed me to spell out everything, twice, in order for him to understand. Now that he's made this decision to end our marriage, maybe that's it? He hasn't given even a hint that he wants to work things through and when I ask out right, he just says he's confused. I'm beginning to feel like I'm coming across desperate and that is not something I'm happy about...at all! He's brushing me off and I keep saying 'do you want to work at things' - I should just take the hint but I just struggle to accept that he can be ok with his family moving away.

His job certainly does lend itself to that sort of thing and that is one of our problems. He's definitely become far too relaxed on what is acceptable and what is not. I know he flirts and have pulled him up on it. As I mentioned, he really needed me to explain the problem, before he saw my point and agreed to keep himself in check. To be honest, I'd be surprised if he was physically cheating but not if he was in contact with someone. At this point, if he was doing either of those things, I wouldn't want him back.

The holiday issues is more about his obsession with work. He works in sales, so he sees time as money - holiday prevents him from earning money. I try and point out that he works to live but he sees that as me devaluing what he does...

A huge part of the reason he has the issues he does, is due to his family. He overlooks it but they do not treat him well, so I would be loathed to reach out to them. Being the non-communicator that he is, he considers himself a private person and therefore doesn't really speak with people about problems and if he did, they're all like him, so wouldn't talk to me about it.

My best friend called him 'to see how he was' and he said all this stuff that made her really hopeful and then when I saw him, he was the complete opposite. He seems to know what the right thing to say is but doesn't follow through/mean it.

[ronnoco]

It sounds like you had tried all the right things prior to the split.

The problem you have is everyone has free will. You can only judge someone on their actions and behaviour and just like a bird can't can't fly on a broken wing, a marriage can't blossom if both people aren't committed and all the signs point towards your husband not wanting to make it work.

Perhaps his work has distanced him from you beyond the point of repair. It sounds like work has become his life to me. Most people would love a holiday, for many that's the motivation behind working. The comment about counselling cost is bizarre. The "i'm busy" comment comes across as someone who is either unwilling to change or for whatever reason, angry. Also, he's a professional at selling so will be quite comfortable with talking to people like your friends of the cuff. He's used to bringing out the best in things. I wouldn't read to much into that.

It's certainly strange that he would be ok with you moving away but everyone is different. I have my kids 3 nights a week including a big stint at the weekend. I couldn't possibly be one of these dads that only see's the children once a fortnight but unfortunately, for whatever reason this can often be the case.

I agree it's very important that you retain your dignity. I take it you can reach him by mobile phone in an emergency though?

[chosen]

always, is there any way that your family can help you to be able to remain where you are?I think you need the support of your family now, and your husband should be paying you quite a bit for child maintenance, and maybe you can down size where you live?
Does he know that you are considering moving away? Does he still pay some of the bills or has he stopped.

[alwaysl8]

His refusal to talk yesterday was a clear indication he has no desire to try and work at our relationship and that breaks my heart. I don't understand how in such a short time, without me doing anything wrong, he has shut me out and now wants nothing to do with my, unless it's about our son.

Like you, I also don't understand how he can be ok with us moving away. When we married, I was in a very well paid job but changed roles and went down to part-time when we had our son. During that time, I have kept everything going, while he furthers his career and now has no worries about getting his own place and starting again. I on the other hand am going to struggle terribly and I'm shocked that he isn't phased by that fact. I have asked to increase my hours at work, which they have agreed to but not until January - which feels like a life time away. He has said he will continue to pay towards the house for 2 months, to give me time to find somewhere else to live. From that point on, he'll pay maintenance.

I'm so overwhelmed by it all. The areas that I can afford to live are much further out and places I'm not familiar with, so need to visit them to see what they are like. I'd also need to find a new nursery - and my son starts school next year, so I have to apply in September, so wherever I go, I need to factor that in a good local school. It might not sound much but I'm trying to keep everything as normal as possible at home, while dying inside. I feel so alone.

He's contactable by mobile in an emergency.

[ronnoco]

Have you contacted Child Tax Credits and told them that you are now living alone on one income?

They need to not factor in your husbands wage anymore. When my wife and I separated, her benefits went up by hundreds per month instantly. Call them today and also the council office for a council tax reduction.

Also, use this site to work out exactly how much he should be paying you : -

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenance/y

If you have a mortgage and it is in both names, legally he is responsible for half. If you were to get divorced, he would have to pay spousal maintenance and possibly a considerable chunk of the mortgage.

His cold action make me think he has emotionally disconnect from you some time ago. There could be someone else, I hope there isn't but with an affair, be it physical or emotional, the heart can be divided and infatuation with another person can change the person you once knew into a total stranger.

I feel for you because I know how tough it is but tough times don't last, tough people do.

[alwaysl8]

I have looked into CTC but apparently I earn too much to be entitled to anything - I can't imagine how that can be true but perhaps I fall into that unlucky grey area...I'll check again, thank you.

He has offered to pay towards my son's nursery costs, which are over £800pm. that alone brings his payments above what the maintenance calculator says he should pay, so I don't feel I can ask for more but I'll never see any of that money - it will go straight to our son's nursery, so I'll basically have no money towards monthly expenditure. I have mentioned this but he says that it's all he can afford...

We rent the place we live in - hence why he's offered to pay towards the house for two months - that's our notice period.

He has completely disconnected. He seems able to do it quite easily - I've just never been on the receiving end before. I feel so helpless. I don't want our marriage and family to be over but I'm clearly alone in that feeling.

[ronnoco]

£800 a month! - that's very high. How many hours is he in Nursery? Perhaps there is an alternate solution like an Au Pair or shared child minder...you've got to be able to get the cost down. How long is it until he is 3 and you get 15 hours a week free?

I was under the impression that you could receive up to 75% of child care costs back if working 16 hours a week or more. Do you get much back?

Definitely double check CTC. Perhaps they are looking at your total income for the past 12 months. Be absolute sure they know that your circumstances have changed.

Don't forget to call the Council, that will save you 25% straight away.

It's a horrible place to be, I really sympathise with you. It's like a storm, you've gotta ride it out, do damage control along the way then pick up the pieces and re-build....and whatever happens you will re-build, trust me.