brink of seperation
 

hi
i hope you can give me some support/advice. hubby and i been married 3 years, been through illness, work difficulties etc. our marriage has always had problems - and we have just lost respect for each other. every few days things go ok and then there is a complete fall out which could last a few days and it means i can't cope as i am so worn down - i get depressed, cancel my plans, can't get on with my life anymore. i have moved to my parents a few times when this has happened - it happened a few days ago and i said that was it im moving out - we have just started counselling together but i still don't really want to live together during this process but have decided to give it one more chance. my mental health is affected by the arguments, plus to add to the mix i have a new baby to look after and don't want this affecting her. i don't know what to do. he wants us to go on holiday together to get a break. in the circumstances, would this not be a recipie for disaster? i cannot stand when he is off work, i can't relax in my own house,things are full of tension. the things that led up to this was my own illness and depression, us not having a social life together, his break down over work difficulties and loss of respect - also 2 completely different family dynamics. he never gives me space when i need it for ecample if we are argueing and i say we need to drop this and talk about it later he will follow me from room to room if i close the door he will open it and go on and on till he has got his point out / anger out and i am reduced to a crying mess or in a state of anxiety which affects me for a long time afterwards. i have already said ive had enough. many times. now i feel stupid i am being persuaded to go home - and i need to, i need my own space my own house my own surroundings, but i also need to get a new place of my own for ahwile - would separation not be good for awhile as we are destroying each other. its so hard. tomorrow we have a counselling appointment. i am looking after a demanding baby and to be honest all this is draining me so much. by the way, we are both born again christians....the devil has had it out for us from the start!

Re: brink of seperation
 

Greetings,
I have to get ready for work right now, but will answer you just as soon as I set up my store...been there, done that, own the T-shirt. Yes, the devil is at work, but there is a way to turn this around...my husband and I did. I am in California, so just beginning my day, but I will get right back to you.

Hang in there!

Re: brink of seperation
 

What are the biggest issues that you two fight about? Which of the two of you is more likely to not listen to the other when you hear something that you dont like or disagree with? When did all these fights start...before marriage, or after the honeymoon? Is there swearing and threats flying...throwing things, name calling, blame-shifting ect?

How old are the two of you?

What evidence do you have that your husband is a Spirit filled believer...I mean, what FRUIT is operating in his normal every day life that validates his claim to faith?

Re: brink of seperation
 

hi forever,
thanks for your reply - and for sharing and the encouragement. im glad you got through your hard times.
it is sometimes not always big issues we fight about - it is often small things that just escalate. its the way we speak to each other. i will get annoyed with the way he speaks to me (as he comes across as very angry etc) and he will say i am too sensitive and then it will escalate from there. another thing is our different routines and schedules. he has a very busy schedule at times and i am also minding the baby all the time, he doesn't understand that sometimes i need a break away from it - just to get a bath or to get out of the house, and we argue about who is the most run down - then he will want me to go out when i am too tired etc. its about planning - a lot of arguments are when we sit with our diaries and try to plan schedules.
i think he is more likely not to listen to me most of the time, it takes him a long time to come round to anything i suggest. an example is a very fancy carpet we have and is totally white hard to clean and unsuitable for a baby and it has taken him 4 months to agree that we need to put it in the loft for now, before it was his way, he seems quite controlling that way. i will always listen to him, but maybe not right at that moment. sometimes i need some time out if we are heavily arguing and things are getting upsetting, then i say now is not the right time and he will not respect that, and thats where things realy fall apart.
there were a few fights before we married as we were under a lot of stress then, they really kicked off from the honeymoon. yes there are swearing threats blame all that. we are 29.
he is definately a believer - he has an active faith in God - he doesn't read the bible any more really as he doesn't have time but he prays a lot, when we have bad fights sometimes he will just pray for us when things have calmed down and we are at our wits end. he always has love for me and forgiveness - i am the one who cannot just forgive and forget. i forgive but i cannot just get up and get on as if nothing has happened where he seems to be able to. thanks for listening. we are going to counselling today. i am just so tired of it all. i have a headache!

Re: brink of seperation
 

Re: brink of seperation
 

Thank you for clarification. His words leave deep wounds in your soul, that is what drains you...he is not affirming your person or your particular sensitivities...he must find better ways to speak to you when he is upset, stressed or angry than to leave you in shreds verbally.

So you are sensitive, I imagine he is too except that in a different way. He needs to learn that just because he is "the man", does not mean he gets to dominate and control. He is supposed to lead and love you in a sacraficial way...not a overtake and overpower way. I hope he does not throw Scripture around as a weapon too???

Does he work 24 hour shifts?? Well, tending the needs of a baby is just like that. It is hard to even get a nice bath in. I had four children so I know. He needs to start realizing that you need help and a break so that you feel like a whole person. I am hoping the counseling will be effective in giving you a way to express these things...and that he will be responsive.

Please let us know how it went.

Re: brink of seperation
 

jan I think that the marriage counselling will help.

Re: brink of seperation
 

Jan..

Welcome. A new baby puts a lot of stress of work and worry on a woman and most men are not that helpful with all the details that come with the little bundle of joy. Your husband should be making it easier by doing some dinner preparation or helping with chores to take some of the load off you.

I don't know what all the arguing is about but one thing is CRAZY. He has no business to follow you from room to room like a bulldog to get the last word! That is quite abusive behavior and intimidating and controlling. That is not to be born! I would tell him that when you go into (whatever room you retreat to as the bedroom) he is to give you "time out" space so there are no last words. If I had to..would install a door lock on that bedroom and put something pleasant in there for a short time for you to get that personal space.

Marriages where a man is that over bearing can go to really bad to worse as the man uses your weaknesses to force you into a dependent child as he stands over you ranting and raving. That is unforgiveable! No wonder you are in a depressed state to be so completely disrespected.

If you come back at him with fury, the tension accelerates, and then it is full scale yelling war. If you retreat, he is beating you to the wall. No, I sure would not go on vacation with him and be stuck in car for hours with the anger you must feel toward him! So I think you have to get it across, that conduct is unacceptable, and you won't tolerate it now, or in future. When you can, you need to find a safe relative as mother or sister, to leave the baby for a couple hours and meet a friend for lunch or a movie. You need a little ME time.

If that conduct continues, he has no respect for you. He must be used to see a male figure, like a father, intimidating his mother. He learned that behavior somewhere. I hope you stand your ground, because the conduct will get worse, if you don't. Even with this pattern you have a salvageable marriage with some work. Don't give up because all marriages have things that are worth fighting for. You just need to get backin touch with what brought you together in the first place.

Women win arguments better with honey than vinegar. A nice dinner and some sweetness and then you say your piece not as "You do this or that as "I feel you have no respect for me when you follow me into my personal space to get the last word." I find you have such a need to beat me down you don't allow me to digest the probelm on my own terms." Something along that line.

Maybe he watches the baby a time of two, so you can go for a walk and get some private time, as a bubble bath with no interruptions.
Good luck.

Re: brink of seperation
 

thank you so so much for your thoughtful replies and support. i really do appreciate it. i have come back home from my parents, and he has persuaded me saying he really does love me so much and wants to change. he says he knows he has issues and is willing to go to his own individual counselling as well to sort them out. we've talked about his behaviour (following me, ranting etc) and he knows its unacceptable - we talked about this in counselling. he really does want to change. i really hope he can change. i think this behaviour was probably learnt at home as his mum really is lovely, but if she is annoyed about something she will rant and rave and yell and have no ability to remain calm.
so the counselling did go well, we both brought up stuff - the counsellor thought it was important that i got some me time - unfortunately he doesn't have much time at all so my mum might help out a couple of hours with that. his schedule really is heavy. but we will get there. another thing is the baby has recently started refusing a bottle at night which gave me some sleep, so i am bfing all the time and it is so draining. i hope we get through this - peoples prayers are seeing me through right now as i seem to be coping - things seem so different and hopeful than they did last week, i am trying to keep close to the Lord. please keep talking to me, as i really need it - in church noone talks about marriages and there is no marriage support from pastors or anything there wasn't even pre marriage guidance! thanks also its so encouraging to hear how others have come through this.

Re: brink of seperation
 

Jan 2012

1aokgal is so right. I disrespected my husband big time and didn't even realise i was hurting him until he gave me the wake up call I needed. I am in IC and also brought up this was the way my parents were when they argued - ranting and raving. Up until this point I knew my behaviour was unaceptable but I continued as I did not see the consequences until he gave me the ILYB speeech and sought affirmation else where. H has told me he feels very similar to what you described and though he loves me could not bear this to go on any longer. We are beginning to turn this around by changing my behaviours. I too am praying and will add you in my prayers. It takes a lot of patient, understanding and time. There is always hope if both partners are willing to work at it. In one week, I have recognised lots of small but positive progress. This encourages me and wants me to show H even more that I do truly love him rather than being this angry, agressive controlling person he has seen me to be.

Re: brink of seperation
 

Ladies,

We can't change another so the first step is to change a situation is to get the other person to realize there is a problem. Then we each take personal responsibility to alter behavior when we get in that danger area. I think the "time out habit" is a good one when two people hit that danger area where things get heated.

Even..the delay. " I think you are right, we do need to discuss this. This is a bad time for me right now, because....(whatever.) Do you mind if we sit down after the dishes are done and talk about it?" Delay gets the huffy person calmed down and things go better. Arguing just gets nowhere.

That intimidation of standing in anothers' face, kills all the nice areas between the couple. It just can't be allowed. It seems to be learned behavior, which borders on hysteria, that someone won't listen to them without that behavior. Maybe there has to be more validation that you are listening.

This is where "mirroring" listening, is good. He says something...you repeat it to show you heard him. "Oh, you would prefer to go to your mothers on saturday, instead of tomorrow? " He says yes, that is what he means. Then you respond to the subject. The mirroring tells the other person you accept the communication. That is better than to be told," You never listen to me."

Just never give up and work out the issues. Who ever said living with another person would be easy!! (Of course, if it was a woman, it would be easy.) We are rational, intelligent creatures which some men are not!

Re: brink of seperation
 

hi
i have realised and learnt a lot from this thread - thanks guys! MC i am glad you are working out things in your marriage and wish you all the best its so good that you can realise these things and its good to hear it from your perspective and the struggle that it is for you. its so sad that you learnt this from your parents... i have this little baby and the worst thing would be if she picked up on my or my husbands bad habits and behaviours. there is no time like the present to focus on becoming like the lord jesus!
well things have went better so far this week - and things have been very stressful with the baby yet we have managed a bit better but i know it is going to take much time and patience. the mirroring listening is an excellent idea. i have been given 'fair fighting rules' by the counsellor for us to read and that is in them along with other good ideas along with the delay you mention - if things get heated to be able to decide another time to re start the 'fight' when we have both cooled off. and also if one is the heavyweight (such as my husband - he almost double my weight!) then there is a compromise to be agreed upon such as i get to stand and he sits or i get to use a louder tone than him or something like that which we agree upon together for 'fights'. this will help with the intimidation thing greatly.
the one room with a lock is the bathroom and manys a time ive hidden in it!
i am trusting for better times. the main problem right now is that my hubby never has any time. the counsellor has told him that he needs to be working less and he is going to try and sort it out a bit. he is working every weekend and late a lot of nights - tonight he gets in at 7 - when ive been minding the baby all day my head ends up fried and i just want to retreat so we don't spend much time together at all. then when we do its so pressurised to make it worthwhile that it ends up going pearshaped!
i admire every single person who has come through a separation.

Re: brink of seperation
 

He's doing too much in anyone's book and his marriage is suffering.

Nobody ever said on their deathbed I wish I had spent more time at the office.

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the problem is he is studying full time and also working...he says it is to give us a better future - which i understand....but it is still do hard. he keeps saying though that he is going to work less hours and work it out with his boss..but its always after things have reached a head - that happened yesterday again so he is speaking to boss to cut down his hours now so he has one day off a week.

Re: brink of seperation
 

Raymond that is a very good way of looking at it! i wish he could see it from that point of view

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Let's hope he gets a bit more time and just does the four days Jan. At least he is aware of it. You do need some me time in marriage. Hopefully it is a temporary situation doing the studying and work as well. Just that little adjustment of only working four days could make all the difference.

Re: brink of seperation
 

i do hope it makes a difference. i am starting to get depressed and not coping well myself now. i think the whole thing has really unsettled me and every time something (argument) happens i just think to myself i have no energy left to give to marriage and just want to give up. but the strength i need to sort out going alone would be too much as well. it just all seems too hard at the minute.
today i was talking on the phone about something - something that was of mutual concern, but which was ultimately my decision to make. when dh heard me saying something he was not happy with he started the ranting and raving while i was on the phone so i couldn't even hear the woman. i ended up having to pass her on to him and explain im sorry i can't actually hear you because of my husband. then she explained the whole thing to him, stressed it was my decision and afterwards we argued about it and he said well he didn't know all the facts. he did apologise in the end but said it was out of concern that i was making the right decision. it just makes me feel de valued and my confidence completely undermined. im so tired of it all.

Re: brink of seperation
 

I don't think going alone is an answer Jan. You have problems of course and need to work through them in your time, not when you or him are stressed out.

Your husband sounds like he is very strong willed. That is not necessarily bad but he needs to be sensitive to you as well and not be so impulsive. He sounds stressed to me and it could be that overwork is getting to him. At least he apologised about the telephone incident so he knew he was wrong.

I would suggest going out and doing something together outside of the home without being under pressure and discover again what it was you loved about each other initially. This is important to your marriage. Time out especially for you two. If you find that difficult to do then you have to ask yourself whether you have not forgiven him for something. Any funny business must be cleared between you first and not sorted out whilst you are out together as that must be a clear time for you to enjoy together.

If he hasn't got time for that then something is wrong with his schedule.

I would also recommend that you look at the book The Five Languages of Love. I am at work now but the writer's surname is Chapman. One of the love languages are Words of Affirmation which may be your one perhaps. I can see that if he worked on this your self esteem would rise and you would feel loved more. I am not talking about flattery here just genuine affirmation of your good points. We all have them.

Re: brink of seperation
 

hi thanks for your words of widsom. getting out together is a good idea..we do try to and wil try to do new things to break up routines etc...he doesn't have much time but we should learn to be efficient with the time he does have. i do find it hard to forgive and move on every time we argue, and this is something we are discussing in counselling. .. he counsellor says he must respect the fact i need a bit more time to deal with things, cry and move on, but he will not respect this because he can get up straight away forgive forget and get on with his day. it takes me awhile to process and release my emotions before i can do the same. he does not give me that time, winds me up more while i am still upset, and i end up even more upset and not wanting to do anything.
this is a hard pattern to break. it happened today...we had a silly argument, he kept going on and on and on, i was crying, he blamed me as i wasn't coping, accused me of being too emotional, not being able to get over things, said my behaviour wasn't normal etc etc. all this got me into a worse state - where i was anxious, crying and trying to get away from him going on in my ear. yet he blamed me for this behaviour when i just kept saying would u just leave it stop talking give me my space. now i am just so drained, upset, tired, been made to feel like my behaviour is way abnormal and there is something wrong with me, don't want to do anyting today as i have no energy (i also have health problems that limit my energy levels, and am caring for a new born so up at night etc) now i will get the blame for ruining the day.
to be honest i just don't have much energy left for our relationship. i do want to make it work, but i have to be able to care for my child, i have to be able to function. this is affecting my functioning. i don't know what to do. am we/i ever going to get through this.

Re: brink of seperation
 

It is a well known thing that those who are good at certain thing are least patient with those who are not up to scratch on those things.

You are a bit like my wife actually Jan and I am a bit like your husband. I was guilty of not understanding and not being compassionate towards my wife. Women are different to men and it takes time to understand them. The scripture says we are to love them and live with them with understanding, so there is no excuse for us really. He will get to that place if he wants to and with God's help.

Actually I am not as strong as I thought I was and my wife displays qualities which are exceptional in the area of compassion and empathy. Empathy is her greatest gift and God uses her in that. That was underneath everything and the flip side was that she does have tears if I badly upset her which I hardly ever do these days.

You husband is being a bit cruel and unloving to be honest. I wouldn't say he does it on purpose. He just thinks he is right but he is not. We all have blind spots. The rule for a man is always to love their wives and he needs to see how he is being impatient and even controlling. I hope all these things come out in counselling. Arguments are not only about who is right or wrong. It matters how you treat the other. It is not loving not to allow you the time to process things and give you the space and love you need. He will learn these things in time if he is wanting to do the right thing like I had to.

Re: brink of seperation
 

hi Raymond

i am glad you are able to see your wifes qualities now and you were able to come to a place of understanding each other more - how long did it take for you both to get into a better place in your marriage?
last night he did come and apologise and said he wasn't even aware of the things he was saying that they were hurtful, that he has no self awareness until way later on. probably your wife is a sensitive person then - she can see the need and feelings of others, but it also means she is very sensitive in her own feelings and emotions as well - i am like that and its hard sometimes i wish i wasn't but i guess it does come in useful as i can see the needs of others emotionally.
oh and yes i have that book about love languages - i actually lent it to my friend a year or so ago, i should ask for it back now lol and say we are in dire need! we have counselling on wednesday. last week was so hard - it was extremely draining for me and affected me the rest of the week, as the discussion did not end in the counselling room. i really hope its easier this week as i feel so run down at the minute. i am not getting to church either and am trying to stay close to the lord in all of this. thanks for being here to support us. :)

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We had that sort of problem mainly at the beginning Jan. My wife would sometimes slam the door and walk around the block. I couldn't work it out as I always thought I was a pretty decent kind of chap. Whilst I would go straight to sleep afterwards she would lie awake at night about it. One night she kneeled by my head and said I am not sleeping so you are not sleeping. Pretty frustrating when I felt my conscience was clear.

A lot of the answer was adjusting to each other and the way each other thought. I thought I had a lot of self control but I ended up shouting at her which she really hated. I think the answers came in moments of revelation about oneself and one's behaviour. A lot a sacred cows (belief systems) had to be slaughtered.

A lot of her anger was because she loved me and had a lot to lose if things didn't work out. She needed close intimacy and lots of hugs etc as I discovered later. Touch has turned out to be her main love language. If I didn't do it it affected her. It is now a natural part of our marriage.

I realise now that I hadn't learned to love properly because of my background and grew up with an independence which didn't really let anyone into the most vulnerable places.

Re: brink of seperation
 

Raymond, that was one of the things that came put in IC for me....My expectations were too high as i was too independent to let myself be vulnerable to someone else. Jan, my H is a also sensitive, a lot of the time I wasn't even aware of the things I was saying was hurting him and belittling him. h has said he has mentioned how he felt lots of time but I didn't really take notice until the ILYB speech. Now, I understand how much I love him and how much emotionally I have to lose. I have stupidly told H in the past that I was quite capable of carrying on without him and do not need him financially. I have been quite cruel about it.

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You will be a better person for it in the end when you get fully hold of it MC.

However it will not work if he is still texting OW. That is a dangerous breech that needs to be mended by him if he wants to work on his marriage. He cannot have his cake and eat it. It doesn't work.

Re: brink of seperation
 

hi...
how are you Raymond, MC?
things have just got really bad with hubby and me. i don't know what to do. the marriage counselling was overwhelming - some of it helped, and sometimes it just felt like a place to accuse and hurt each other and opened a can of worms each time. she seemed to focus a lot on the negatives.

anyway the last time we were in he said he couldn't be bothered with it anymore - he is going to go back but the baby and me got sick after that so we haven't been back yet and things are so so hard.

he needs at LEAST one night out a week to stop him feeling down, this week he went out for dinner on monday night but that was 'only 2 hours' and i asked him not to do his night out later in the week as the baby and me weren't well, and also i have had literally no sleep due to the baby for 2 weeks now as she has been going through a difficult stage. he stayed in, but i have received the brunt of it since.

he says he is not happy in the marriage, is bored cos we never go out, (we do, mostly at the weekends and maybe once during the week), feels he can't be himself (ie, take off whenever he wants to to do his own thing), needs to be around a lot of people all the time to stop him feeling down etc....he admits he is depressed at times but refuses to go to the doctor as he says its circumstantial depression, which he blames on my health problems, as i don't have enough energy to give him the lifesstyle he wants. he brings up things that i cannot do every single day - different limitations that i have, - when i tell him this really hurts me and brings me down, he says well it impacts and affects his life too. its all so very upsetting.

i feel that i have been giving all i can give to compromise on different things, to make him happy, to let him get his time out etc etc and nothing, nothing is ever good enough. i do not know where to go from here. we will not be able to get back to counselling for a few weeks as he has agreed to meet his college class then instead. i am so upset that i want nothing to do with him over this weekend - and yet i have to go on...

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Sorry to hear that you are still having these problems Jan.

It sounds difficult. You do need good sleep and he does need his time out it seems. I would go along with that and let your need of sleep be known as well. Perhaps go for one good night of undisturbed sleep with his help once a week? He is frustrated and you are tired. It is hard to work on your marriage unless basic needs are recognised

If the counseling is too negative can you change? Is this from your church? Does she pray into your situation?

Can I ask what sort of problems you individually had before entering marriage? Something basic is going wrong it seems to me. I get the feeling some of the problems have their root in things which happened before the marriage. Did you both have stable backgrounds?

Re: brink of seperation
 

hi Raymond

the baby was going through a growth spurt and seems to be over the worst of it, so i have had 2 nights of better sleep which has made a good difference. he has started helping til around 1am - he can't help after that, even if hes off the next day as he just cannot function late at night or early in the morning.

we have had a couple of better days of understanding and listening to one another. we haven't been back to counselling for a few weeks - due to go back next week. it is quite negative - it would be hard to change - its not through the church although its a christian organisation, and there is no praying involved. its for christians or non christians and it doesn't have a biblical focus. we can't really afford to go anywhere else as we are getting this one for free.

there was some problems before we married - i had some health problems then. we had a more active life then and i could do more. since then i can't do as much and he is resentful about this. he is also depressed now as he has been going through his own hard times with work etc. its been a very difficult marriage so far. we are both trying hard now.

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Good to here you are now getting a bit of good sleep Jan and glad to hear he is helping a little. You have to accept his limitations as he will be made differently to you.

I feel he is going through an adjustment time. He would have had expectations in marriage and it's not turning out that way quite. That's quite normal but you can still have a good marriage and relate to each other in truth as things are now. Things will get a lot better now that you are working at it. Let him go out a little and do what he needs to do. He is under pressure at work it seems. You don't want a depressed husband. God has a plan for both of you.

Have you got the church elders to pray for your sickness? Jesus is still the healer. Or get hubby to pray for you. Of course you can believe for yourself as well. God is concerned about these things.

I would take the counselling and use the positives there are. If you feel some of it is negative then you don't have to imbibe it. She is giving her time freely and concentrating on your marriage which is not a bad thing.

Try and speak good things into your marriage when you get opportunities. Try and find out what his love language is. Be it words of affirmation, gifts, quality time, touch or acts of service. Someone has to start somewhere to bring the love back.

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Jan, babies take an awful lot out of a relationship. H and I went through a mini rough patch were we seemed to be in 'competition' on whom was tiredest, work the most etc. We were not able to afford a baby sitter most of the time but we did fun things at home; massages, watched rented movies. On good weather evenings we just had a drink outside and talked...these were the best. There were some evenings we just opted to go to bed early for cuddles (not sex) and catch up on sleep. Is it possible you can ask for another counsellor if the current one is not working for you?

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Hi Raymond, MC,

thanks for your replies. Raymond, i have started to accept that he is just never going to be a morning person and just to let him sleep in. but when things are very hard sometimes i find myself i cant cope with the night wakenings and minding baby all day too. He does go out at least once a week if not more. i am trying to cope by bringing my mum in for help and company on the nights and weekends he is working or out but its still hard as i feel i never get a break... when it comes around that he does have an hour or 2 to mind the baby, im too exhausted to go out, and try to rest in the house (which rarely happens). But the last couple of times mum has come, shes taken the baby out on a walk, and i felt like a new person afterwards.
we have prayed many times for me - and hubby tells me he is angry at God because he doesn't believe God can heal anymore, its brought his faith down, and he has ended up discouraged - i think this has contributed to his depression. We both assumed i would be healed. yes the church has helped pray too. i still do believe in healing and that we still should be praying...but its hard to motivate us both to be praying together at this time in our lives. i feel like im holding the family up to God at this time - when the baby feeds in the early hours and i can't go back to sleep, thats my prayer time and for this season, its where the strength has to be coming from.
we have decided when we go back next week, we will ask the counsellor if we can go fortnightly - this will help us process our thoughts and have some recovery time before the next session. we both thought every week was too draining.
i am making effort to speak positive words over him - i think he has lost confidence, and over the past months i haven't helped that as i have not encouraged him due to all the conflict. im complimenting him now on how well he's doing at college, with the baby - etc i know it helps him and im hoping it will be a start to turn things around. thanks so much for your advice.

MC how are you keeping? thanks for your insight, im glad im not the only one who felt the stress a baby can bring! i can relate to the competition thing about who is the tiredness etc that has been a source of conflict! your ideas are good - sometimes making the effort just to sit together and watch a good movie can help rather than both of us running around all the time. i wouldn't like to ask for another counsellor really - i would feel really bad doing that. she is really nice its just we probably have too many problems! we will try to keep going and to keep working hard at it - i just pray the sessions will not be used to accuse each other - any counsellor would find it hard to take the positives from that.

the counsellor does often ask us did we realise what we were taking on when we got married, did we realise what this meant, and also she asks us wether what we have is enough to keep us together. she often asks us what we would like changed about the other person...
i realise all these q are helpful in their own way - but they bring up a lot of raw emotion and would it not be more helpful to ask things like, for example, what attracted you to him, or what do you like most about him, or what does he do that makes you feel good?
what are your thoughts on these? am i just being over sensitive? :)

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You have many strands going on here Jan. Your baby being awake at night isn't helping. It's great that your mum can be a little help. I know that your husband has faults. So have I and so have you. Although your counsellor sounds nice I don't think it is helpful to say what would you change about your partner? As you say they have good points too that we need to be reminded of. A lot of marriage is about acceptance of the other in spite of their faults as we would want to be accepted with our faults. Not that we don't try and change but it isn't the others job to change us by pressure or control. My wife is a night person and I am an early person. She is trying to change herself because she admits that a lot of the late time is wasted when she goes past a certain point and sometimes she hasn't the discipline to go to bed. She is a lot better now than she has ever been without me saying anything. She struggles with things that are natural for me but it works the other way as well and I may be struggling with things she takes for granted. We are supposed to be a team in the end.

It's good that you have acceptance of your husband in spite of things that you would change and also that you are encouraging him. Maybe words of affirmation may be his love language and you might be able to do a lot of good using that. He must know that you need rest and probably battles with his priorities but I know that you cannot force it.

I wouldn't try and do too much. He must accept your limitations caused by not getting enough rest. He should be able to see that. The baby is important.

Healing might be a battle sometimes but don't give up your faith that God heals and wants to heal. It's part of His nature. I don't think we can treat Him like a vending machine though. If we cultivate relationship it will be part of it to be healed. His word doesn't lie. It's great that you are continuing praying. One cannot underestimate that. I am sure that God will be working in your husband answering your prayers although he has freewill whether to respond or not.

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The biggest turn around for me was to validate and affirm what my H was doing. I underestimated how the lack of affirming words was not helping our situation. I have realised that for H, it was important for him to know that I wanted his help and that I understood he was doing his best. Now, he is more likely to help as I am encouraging rather than critical.

It sound that affirmation is your husband's love language too. Could your husband make one of the nights he goes out for you and the family? My H was abroad alot for his work for the first year and also working shifts. When I was able to have a couple of hours 'off', I never tried to sleep because if I did I would only sleep when my two hours was up and ended up being more tired and cranky. Instead, I took myself off to have a bath, walk or read. I was still tired but less stressed.

My marriage was going through a crisis seven months ago, at the beginning I was very impatient and did not think my prayers were being listened or answered, today I can see great improvements in my situation and I continue to prayer that this is the case. it is always very hard when a new baby arrives as emotions, hormones and tiredness are all conflicting with each other.

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Hi ive just joined. I am sorry I've gate crashed don't know what I'm doing :/

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Hope you find what you need Acaciatree.

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hi...
just checking in to say thank you both for responding... i have read carefully your posts and they have helped a lot! it helps to keep reminding myself that we both have faults and need to accept one another as we are - i need to start with this. Like your wife Raymond, i really struggle with things that my husband finds easy and no bother in life, and its hard because he just wants to get on and do things and sees my struggles as 'always obstacles in the way'. but we are getting through by learning to compromise on both parts! and understanding each other a bit better.
Affirmation is one thing that i can take action to do and think it will really help - im already seeing the benefit of this as ive been encouraging him in his studies and generally being more interested in them, and he is responding well.
MC im so glad you were able to figure out how to make a difference. you are right about trying to sleep in the house it would be so hard and i would go crazy trying - i have earplugs and all and still i can't! a bath or shower/pamper time is a much better idea and makes you feel nice and refreshed afterwards.
Acaciatree, hi don't worry about gatecrashing, I hope you are ok :)

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just to add..i think its hard as he expects much more from life in general than me at times. for example.... if we have some time, i will be happy to go a nice walk where we live. he will want to go driving somewhere else to walk for a change of scenery (even though we have a beautiful walk by our house and rarely walk there) Another example if he goes out with his friends he'll never just want to meet for dinner it will always be dinner, movies, take out... it has to be all or nothing. whereas i would be happy to just do one of these things. i think we have different expectations, and i know this is normal to want all these things but the reason i find it hard is that i can't keep up, and no matter what i do or what i give i feel its never enough. but i do feel part of the general discontentment is a bit to do with depression...he says he gets his energy from being out and about and around people whereas i get it from having downtime. this is true. anyway .. just musing here

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I'm tired now and may come back later Jan. Wednesday is my swimming night and I give it my all while I can.

Just to say it seems that you are classic extrovert and introvert. I am an introvert and understand where you are coming from. Extroverts get their energy from others. Introverts get it from being alone or downtime as you call it. It doesn't mean that one doesn't like people it just means you need time alone as well. We have to cope with the temperament we have. I can understand your husband a little better now. He will need people and get his energy from them whereas you will get it from being alone. I think understanding your temperaments will help here. The danger is that he might expect you to be an extrovert when you are not and try and make you be like him. It won't work because you are not made that way and he has to see it and accept it. You are not letting anyone down you have to be yourself. Yes there will be times that you can adjust a little but you will never be an extrovert. Both temperament have their advantages.

It's great that you are encouraging him. I think you are hitting on something here. It might well be his love language and he will feel love from it in a special way if it is. The book The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman calls it words of affirmation.

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ah...i wrote a reply to you a few days ago, and my computer (or me) lost it!
anyway, how are you, how was swimming, im glad you have an outside hobby to do thats great.
you are totally right, he is an extrovert and i like going out but not all the time, and prefer smaller groups of people when i do. he is the opposite. i like routines and planning, he likes being spontaneous and just doing what he feels like when he feels like it. i find all of this very hard - we both do, but with the counselling im hoping we can learn to meet in the middle.
the last while has went from bad to worse. things did escalate between us to the point where there has been arguing every day, and ive been very upset most days. im struggling now with depression at times and confidence, and still don't sleep at nights as the baby is going through a very demanding stage re to nights. im emotionally and physically drained, im not keeping on top of house stuff and don't have motivation. i know this is because of ongoing conflict.
we have missed counselling for about a month and are going back tomorrow. it will probably make us feel worse after as it will bring up these issues but we need to keep at it.
the main issues for me are his total disrespect in the way he speaks to me. he speaks down to me, cuts me off, cracks up with me, for trivial things and i can't put up with it anymore but i don't know how to stop him, ive tried talking to him over and over again. i don't want my daughter growing up and knowing its ok for woman, or people in general to be spoke to in this way. part of it stems from his family as they all just say whatever they think, yell, if someone is doing something they think isn't right they will tell them they are stupid etc- whatever, with no thought of being sensitive or consequences.
anyway thanks for listening to me rant. i know i am at fault too in my reactions at times, but my patience really is running out. i need more strength from God.

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You do need strength from God Jan. Are you able to have fellowship with others? You both have a lot of adjustment to make but it is hard for you to do while he is acting as he is. Sometimes the enemy can work through our faults if we let him. It is one thing to be entrenched in our faults and think we are right. It is another thing to humbly recognise our faults and endeavour to change. Faults do not disqualify us from love. Like us all there are obviously faults in him that he doesn't see yet and will certainly not listen to you about them. The counselling will help him. Your marriage needs to keep facing the music and getting through what is actually going on. The enemy loves to wreck marriages and he needs to see that as well as you.

The main thing for you just now I think is to get enough rest and build up your faith. We don't want to see you depressed. Try and spend time with God and in fellowship. He sees your problems and is an ever present help in time of need. In the early days of my marriage I used to use scriptures like love your enemies to get though what was happening in my marriage. We were both adjusting to each other and we had our arguments.

Maybe him and his family are proud of speaking the truth and being straight but if it is not done in love it can do a lot of damage. One has to hold back pointing out peoples faults. It doesn't achieve anything if it is not done in love with a desire to help. Mostly we need to hold our peace.

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Raymond what you say is full of much wisdom. thank you for sharing it with me.
i just ordered a book someone recommended, 'Loving against the Odds' by Rob Parsons. i know God is challenging my character and i want to grow spiritually enough to love him even when he has hurt me or is annoying me etc... i know i have a lot of growing to do, and whatever Gods purpose in my life i want to accomplish it. but i know i can't unless my character seriously improves and God must be using my marriage for this.

Fellowship is so hard at the minute. its hard going to church as i breastfeed the baby, i can't get to meetings at night as thats when i go to bed to catch up on sleep. there is an early morning meeting and i would love to get back to going to it, i really miss and need fellowship. i feel out of Gods house, and a lot of it has been to do with how unsettled things were at home. it takes confidence to get back....i don't have much of that at the minute. but i am seeking God in the mornings and thats a start.

counselling went better than expected today. she used a talking and listening exercise to help us discuss things, and it was much much better - we actually listened and understood one another rather than ranting and raving over one another for the first time, because it was all slowed down, and it was moderated!

anyway... im off to see to the baby! i hope you are having a good day. God bless