Where to turn now?

[unluck-E]

I have been with my partner for seven years. We married two years ago. However, the marriage nearly didn't happen, as I had found out that my wife had been having an "emotional" affair via the internet. It also turned out that this was not the first time. It broke my heart. She had shared intimate photographs etc, and both parties has wished they could be with each other.

After it all came out, my wife promised she would never do anything like that again, and said she had been feeling down as a result of giving birth to our youngest child. She said she wanted to feel attractive. I tell my wife every day that she is beautiful, and that I love her, but she needed to hear it from someone else. What made it harder for me though, was that both her mother and her sister knew what she was doing, and condoned it!

Anyway, I have just found out that she has done it again, and possibly more. She has been sending intimate images of herself, and receiving some back. Unfortunately this time the man is local. She had been acting suspiciously for about two months, taking phonecalls outside, lots of messages from "family" members who I had never heard of. I came home early one day, walked through the door, and she threw her phone under the sofa hoping that I didn't see.

It all came to a head three days ago. She left her mobile on the dining table, went to take a bath and it went off. I shouldn't have looked, and I wish I hadn't. The message read:

'This is the first time for me also ;-) I don't know the rules except not to hurt both family's. Having said that I can't ignore how you make me feel, and how much I want you, so the rule must be not to get caught. Everyone needs a distaction in their lives from time to time to keep them alive, and you are one hell of a distraction. Can't tell you how much I want you here now. xxx '

This alone does not indicate a physical affair, but she had a message on her phone from a week previous arranging a meeting time and place, and finishing with the line "I am always horny".

I confronted my wife, I was in pieces. She first attacked me for looking at her phone (I admit it was wrong, but my suspicions were too strong), then she promised me over and over that she never met him, and never slept with him. I just can't believe her, because I've heard her promises before, and she broke them.

We have three children, and I do not want to lose them, and I don't want them living in a broken home. Our youngest is so funny, and it would destroy me to not be around them all the time.

Where do we go from here?

Thanks for reading, it was a bit long-winded.

[chosen]

Hi unlucky-E
I am always so sad when I read or hear about such stories, as we do many times here, of one spouse acting so appallingly. Especially when there are children who will be very hurt as well as their spouse. I am not surprised that you are so hurt, she has almost certainly been unfaithful, maybe with more than one man, or was at the very least planning to be.

The next step is yours really. If she is prepared to repent and to stop all contact with this man, stop all online contact with any men, let you have all of her passwords and be 100% open with her phone or online accounts,and agrees to never be alone with a man ever again, then there may be hope. However, if she isnt prepared to do these things, and carries on this way of life of unfaithfullness, cheating lying and deception, you need to decide if you are prepared to live such an awful life. I am a great believe in very strict boundaries with the opposite sex in marriage, because I have seen so many marriages destroyed by cheating both in my family and around me.
Sadly the children are, and will carry on being, affected by what she is doing, but there is no reason why you should be the one to leave. If she carries on this affair, ask HER to leave.

As for her mother and sister, their morals seem no better than hers. If my daughter were acting like, that I would be telling in no uncertain terms to stop immediately and to be a good wife and mother. Would she consider marriage counselling as a way to help the marriage?.

By the way, dont let her put any blame of this on you. You were right to check her phone with your suspicians and she has chosen to do this.We dont need to have affairs just because we need to feel attractive, that is pure nonsense.

[Helen_uk]

Hi unluck-E

I'm sorry you find yourself in this position . many of us have been there .

Firstly it isn't wrong to look at your wife's phone when she's been behaving suspiciously with it , our gut feelings are rarely wrong and her reaction alone indicates to me she's been up to no good.

Lots of physical affairs result from exactly the kind of thing your wife is doing , and I'm sorry but I don't buy the statement from her that it wouldn't / hasn't gone further . In any case emotional affairs can be and are just as damaging.

She got away with it last time, there were no consequences to her doing it ( i.e you're still together ) so why should she not think it will be the same this time ?

I'm afraid the choice you have is to put up with it, and have a marriage where there is no trust or respect for your feelings or to make it very clear you won't stand for it , and yes that does mean carrying through any threats you make. Believe me, it won't just stop.

You say you don't want your children living in a broken home, but that is exactly what they are already doing if your wife keeps bringing a third party into your relationship.

I think you need to sit her down and tell her you're not prepared to put up with her having contact with other men of ANY kind . If she's feeling down or suffering from depression or lack of confidence then there are things she can do to help that . Having affairs isn't one of them if she wants her marriage to survive. The consequences of this behaviour not stopping is losing you , you need to make that clear and mean it. She has to know you mean it.

DON'T feel guilty for checking up on her, she has history . DON'T feel it's you breaking up the relationship, it isn't. You have to be firm and clear and before there is any chance of working on the marriage she has to be repentant and prove to you she won't do that again. That might mean staying off the internet and keeping her mobile in your line of sight , left unattended if necessary and not on silent or switched off . If she isn't prepared to do that then I think you're in for a very tricky ride.

Good luck.

Helen

[Raymond]

I agree fully with Chosen and Helen UE. There is no room for this in a good marriage.

You say that the phone calls alone do not indicate a physical affair but you don't need to wait for that. What is happening here is mental adultery at the very least. That is shocking on it's own and does need to be viewed as such. It is very immoral and unfortunate that her mother is condoning this. It does show her background but she needs to be shown in no uncertain terms that this is not on.

If she doesn't play ball then as Chosen has suggested you could ask her to leave as a shock tactic perhaps. There is no point in putting up with any of this ever as it will be very destructive to your marriage. Marriage and sex is between you two alone. No third parties. It doesn't work any other way.

[Chamomile]

That must make you wonder why your w is still with you?
Sounds like you alone aren't enough for this lady?
Maybe, she's already bored and looking out for some pasture new e.g. something better for her?
It sounds it.
I'd kick her out if that happened to me.
Not good.

[unluck-E]

Thanks to everyone for your advice and opinions.

I have often thought that maybe I am not enough for my wife. She assures me that I am, and has never complained about our intimacy. I am a good father, and I work hard to ensure my family has everything they need, although the hours I work are not extreme or excessive. Perhaps she is with me for stability or solvency?

My wife would never agree to me having access to her mobile phone records, or email accounts. She had already laid into me about looking at her phone. I feel awful for doing it, and part of me really wishes I hadn't.

I will certainly be taking your advice about making absolutely clear about the consequences if she does it again. I can't throw her out though, because for all she has done to me, she is a superb mother, and gave up her career to raise them. Also, I moved 300 miles to be with my wife. I gave up my friends, my job, and moved away from my family all those years ago. We set up home together in her home town and laid our roots. We live in close proximity to her mother (5mins).

I have no friends in my area who I can share these things with, and the problems I am experiencing at home. I have work colleagues, but I don't want to dicuss these types of things with them. I am glad I have found this site. The advice is friendly and very much appreciated. Thank you all.

[chosen]

unluckie
She actually has a big cheek having a go at you for looking at her phone while she is acting so appallingly.She is deflecting her guilt onto you.
It sounds like you will need to be very firm with the consequenses of any future actions, because if she has nothing to hide then why is she worried? It means she will be able to carry on this awful behaviour with no way of you finding out.The least she can do is to be open with you about these things.

If you put up with it or do nothing, you will be enabling it.

In your place I would set down my conditions for carrying on with the marriage and make it clear that if she ever does this again it is over. This would include no contact with any other man, and definately no meeting up with any other man.I bet if it was you doing this she would be furious,and may well have already asked you to leave.
.
By the way, behaviour like this does affect the children even if you think it doesnt, so if she is a good mother, then she needs to act like one, and be faithful to their father and stop acting like a teenager with no morals.

[Helen_uk]

Unluck-E,
So she wouldn't agree with you looking through her phone ? I'm sure you wouldn't agree with her having affairs !

In my experience people who are secretive with mobiles and e-mail accounts generally have something to hide. There is a fine line between secrecy and privacy. I can understand for instance that work e-mails are not something you'd share with a spouse or partner, but in a marriage why would you need to keep e-mails or texts private if you have nothing to hide. It's often those who feel guilty who rear up if you look at their phones.

Being a good mum is about more than looking after the children well, it's also about showing them morals.....

As for you not being enough , if your wife has a problem with you then it's up to her to discuss that with you and if she isn't happy then she needs to tell you why. That's what marriage is about . Turning to another man to find something she feels is lacking is wrong. I don't think you have any reason to feel guilty. After all, had she acted in a trustworthy manner then you'd have no reason to mistrust her....

We can't tell you what to do here , we can only share our own experiences... and those experiences have shown us that unless it's stopped, the kind of behaviours your wife is showing invariable lead to massive problems.

[Raymond]

It is apalling behaviour and she is playing with fire. I am glad that you are going to be a little tougher on it. These kind of secrets are destructive to your marriage. I'd like it if you were a little angrier because I kind of sense she is ruling you a little.

[unluck-E]

Thanks again.

To Raymond; When my wife was fooling around before we got married, I was extremely angry. She made so many promises, and we took the big step and got married. Everything was going great, or so I thought. Now she's doing it again. This time round I am more upset than anything. I just haven't got it in me now to get cross. I keep thinking over and over about how far she might have gone if I hadn't found out? Or has she already taken her relationship with this man to the next level? My wife has lied to me so many times, that I am struggling to believe what she says.

Also, now she is acting like nothing has happened. If I try to discuss it, she just says "Oh don't start." We need to face up to this, and I need assurances that she won't do it again, and that she has ceased her relationship with this man. I am just so worried that she will call my bluff, and tell me to pack up and leave. Then I will have nothing. My children mean everything to me, and my wife knows this.

[Raymond]

If you are motivated by fear of being kicked out and not seeing the children then you are in danger of enabling this behaviour UE so you must keep confronting it. It is like a sickness to me which must be kept on top of. What will you become if you let her carry on like this because you are afraid to be kicked out? Is it her house? Is it a case of let me flirt with other men and you can stay?

Before when she did it you could have not entered married but now that you have it is worse. She seems to be playing it down a bit and wanting you to pipe down about it which says to me she is reading the wrong script and not the one that makes for a happy marriage. You are right it may have got a lot worse had you not stepped in.

Do you know what she is feeding on on the internet. That could have a lot to do with it. She could be hankering after a Swingers lifestyle for all I know.

I don't think you have any choice but to be firm and keep her in order quite frankly. I know you have a battle on your hands but you need to keep at it.

[chosen]

I agree with Raymond and she cant force you to leave surely. Iif she is the one who is haivng these bad relationships then she needs to leave and not you. Dont let her push you around, You need to be the one setting conditions and boundaries and not her.

[Chamomile]

Thanks to everyone for your advice and opinions.

I have often thought that maybe I am not enough for my wife. She assures me that I am, and has never complained about our intimacy. I am a good father, and I work hard to ensure my family has everything they need, although the hours I work are not extreme or excessive. Perhaps she is with me for stability or solvency?

I have no friends in my area who I can share these things with, and the problems I am experiencing at home. I have work colleagues, but I don't want to dicuss these types of things with them. I am glad I have found this site. The advice is friendly and very much appreciated. Thank you all.Hi Unluck-E You can always go to counseling alone. Relate or anywhere else. It is very good and helpful, I find, after gaining confidence on a site like this. Does she have any friends you can talk to? I sense you do need a bit of support. How young is your w? She sounds very "hormonal". I wonder if her mental state is ok?

take care xx

[Chamomile]

If you are motivated by fear of being kicked out and not seeing the children then you are in danger of enabling this behaviour UE so you must keep confronting it. It is like a sickness to me which must be kept on top of. What will you become if you let her carry on like this because you are afraid to be kicked out? Is it her house? Is it a case of let me flirt with other men and you can stay?

Before when she did it you could have not entered married but now that you have it is worse. She seems to be playing it down a bit and wanting you to pipe down about it which says to me she is reading the wrong script and not the one that makes for a happy marriage. You are right it may have got a lot worse had you not stepped in.

Do you know what she is feeding on on the internet. That could have a lot to do with it. She could be hankering after a Swingers lifestyle for all I know.

I don't think you have any choice but to be firm and keep her in order quite frankly. I know you have a battle on your hands but you need to keep at it.

Knowing you have been through a lot in life and marriage, your words do carry more weight. I often think about this when faced with issues in my marriage. You did give me inspirations as much as Chosen did. Thank you, Jesus for this good Christian Samaritan.

[Helen_uk]

Your wife sounds very dismissive of you, which shows me she has little value for your opinion and this means the balance in your marriage is missing.

It's your wife's behaviours that are causing the problem, why do you automatically assume you'd be the one who has to leave ?

[unluck-E]

Hi to all. Thanks for your kind and helpful words.

I fear I may be the "door mat" type. My previous relationship was very destructive, and my ex was violent, aggresive and manipulative. My wife was aware of this, and was very caring and patient at the start of our relationship/courtship. Somehow it feels like what my wife is doing is worse. I was able to cope with the violence from my ex-partner, as I knew that she was unwell, and that she did love me.

What my wife is doing hurts more. It cuts on a spiritual and emotional level, and those wounds are far harder to heal. There is a saying that the one in the relationship that cares less is the one with all the power. I think that is true.

In answer to your question, my wife is 32yrs old. She is not a youngster. I wouldn't feel comfortable talking to her friends about this sort of thing. I only know them from the times I drop my children off at school (seldom).

I asked my wife to be honest and tell me if she had taken the next step with her OM, and if not how close they had become. She said they hadn't slept together, and me asking questions made her feel degraded!!! She said her extramarital relationship was an escape from her life. I'm not sure what that means TBH. We have three beautiful children. She is a stay at home mum, but I have not pressured her in any way. I appreciate how hard it is. I have said she should take her time to decide what she wants to do. I will support her fully. If she wants to go back to university or something, that is fine. If she wants to go into full time work, that is fine, if she wants to continue to stay with the children, that is also fine.

I give her the freedom to do as she wishes. She goes and visits friends, family etc. I love to spend time with our children, and often take them on day trips so she can have time to herself. We also do family trips. I am struggling to see where or why she feels her life is lacking and needs an escape.

I know that if we don't sort this now, it will rear up again and again.

[Chamomile]

Yes, she sounds almost as if she wants out?

[Helen_uk]

Hi unluck-E

It does sound like maybe you need to take a stand . I think sometimes women like men to be firm, they lose respect if they're given so much free hand.

I know that sounds like it goes against everything we believe to be true in the 21st century , but it works exactly the same the other way around. It's all about respect.

If you allow your wife to walk all over your feelings and do exactly what she wants then you're showing no respect for yourself, so then she's hardly likely to respect you either.

Perhaps you might like to tell her how degraded you feel by her having emotional affairs with other men ?

From what I can see she has no reason to want to escape life, if she's bored it's her own doing ... At 32 she should be capable of amusing herself without resorting to affairs !

Your last relationship may have been abusive physically, but you are now suffering emotional abuse , and that can be painful to go through too.

It certainly seems like she has the power and control in your marriage, maybe it's time you wrested some of that back ?

[Raymond]

I agree with Helen. Also there is a difference in pleasing someone and loving someone. Sometimes we can please someone out of a kind of fear. When we love someone we want the best for them. Letting someone have their own way all the time is not necessarily loving them. If it happened to my wife, not that it ever would, I would raise a stink and be really angry and this would be the best thing for her. Building up the marriage is always the best thing for both of us and for the children.

I don't think what she is doing is the best for her or her children. I would say UE that you need to study her and try to understand her so that you can love her wisely including being tough without fear when you need to be. I think she is walking all over you and you need to learn to say no when it is really needed.

I think the fact that she feels degraded when you ask her about the affair is because she is acting in a degrading way. So let her feel degraded and keep asking because that is the truth. I'm not talking about nagging here but a wise word in season may help here. She is being a slut of a wife quite frankly so you are on solid ground bringing it up.

[chosen]

Agreed. If it were my husband acting like this, I would create a stink as well. She is acting as if it were you that was acting so badly and not her. From what you said in the first post it is quite likely that she has slept with this man already so what about std's?She needs to eb tested before you have sex with her again. Of course she doesnt want you asking her, because she KNOWS that she is cheating and acting terribly.
She is acting like a woman with no morals at all.

[Chamomile]

That's where my question came in. "Is she somewhat, dis-inhibited in her mental state" It's almost "hyper-sexuality"? Or is this wife behaving badly being more fashionable that I don't know about (?!)
Problem is, Unluck-E, if you leave her as she is now, these things tend to get worse.
Chosen is right, as sad as this may sound, you might need to be sure to wear some decent protection when you get intimate with this lady for the time being...(!)

[unluck-E]

We had another row this weekend. I was supposed to go camping with colleagues from work for three days, and thought it would be a good indication that I am willing to trust her etc. This wasn't a sudden thing, and had been planned for a month or so and I didn't change the plans as if I had, she would have thought I didn't trust her alone.

However, she reacted very badly, shouting and carrying on, saying that she wished she could "F##k off for the weekend". I explained that even after all she has done, I have never once stopped her going out, or away. I have never taken away her freedom.

She screamed at me, told me to pack my bags. Told me that she cannot stand me, and hates me etc etc. At one point she said that is unfair of me to bring up her affairs during our arguments. To this I explained that her affairs were the reason for our arguments, her affairs were not fair on me and the family, and that the hurt is still fresh from her last emotional affair.

I stood my ground, refusing to be made to feel guilty or in the wrong. I was showing her that I believed her when she said she had removed his number. Yet she still keeps her phone on silent, still hides it when I am around, and still only checks emails etc when I am at work.

She is now very sorry for her outburst, but I am still not allowed to raise the subject for fear of her "going off the rails" again.

I have been fighting to make this work, but I am now resigned to the feeling that we are not going to make it.

[Raymond]

She is obviously feeling a lot of guilt which is not a bad thing as she is guilty.

Do you think these affairs are a weakness ULE or do you think she could control them but doesn't want to? In other words is she being rebellious or just weak? Does she want to be better but she struggles with it? There is a difference between the two. To do adultery (or mental adultery) on purpose is pretty is very damaging. If on the other hand there is something in her background that is causing this behaviour she may need help but of course she would need to be humble and open to the help.

[Chamomile]

She screamed at me, told me to pack my bags. Told me that she cannot stand me, and hates me etc etc. At one point she said that is unfair of me to bring up her affairs during our arguments. To this I explained that her affairs were the reason for our arguments, her affairs were not fair on me and the family, and that the hurt is still fresh from her last emotional affair.

but I am still not allowed to raise the subject for fear of her "going off the rails" again.

I have been fighting to make this work, but I am now resigned to the feeling that we are not going to make it.

Hi Unluck-E

I don't blame you.
It sounds almost like a very abusive relationship. Trying to control you that way (re. against your planned camping trip) sounds like some sort of psychological abuse. Sorry to hear things are not looking up. Does she have any history of mental health illness? Does she need any mental health assessment?

Take care xxx

[unluck-E]

Well, it's been a while since I last posted on here, and nothing has improved. She still refuses to talk about what's happened, and I get no reassurances from her.

If anyone has any advice on how to go from here it would be gratefully received. She hides her phone, keeps it on silent. I am certain she is continuing this affair. I asked her to show me the text she apparently sent to break it off with her OM, but she had conveniently deleted it.

I don't want to tear this family apart, and I cannot bear the thought of my children growing up without me in the house. It is breaking my heart. I cherish every moment I spend with my kids and I wouldn't be able to cope without them.

[chosen]

There is absolutely no reason why you need to leave the children. If she is having an affair then she needs to be the one who leave. It must be horrible not knowing what she is doing and I really hope that you find out the truth very soon.

[Helen_uk]

I agree. By having an affair , even if it hasn't reached the physical stage yet, she is effectively breaking up the marriage so why should you leave ?

And it isn't you tearing the family apart is it ?

I think you need to bite the bullet and find out the extent of what she's up to . You can't make any kind of decision if you don't have all the facts.

[Chamomile]

Hi

It would be interesting if his w will be honest in what she says re. her affair(s). It seems whether it's a man or a women who is cheating, they do seem to stick their gun by denying all facts forever..in fact, this type of rejecting your concern at all only deepens the hurts in you. Cheating itself is a dishonest act and I do wonder if one can expect any honesty from the same person who's blatantly doing the dishonest act of deceiving her or his mate...? I used to think that is a hallmark of male cheating but it doesn't seem to be gender-specific by judging from what I saw on this site.

Have you seen a marriage counselor yet? If you have already had several "bad" relationships in the past, perhaps maybe it's worth exploring this further? Above all, it may help you to discuss with someone who listens to your problem and in turn, you may be able to move forward. I'm doing the same thing. I'd recommend it.

xxx

[Helen_uk]

Chamomile , my ex refuted his affairs right up until I caught him red handed , he's never taken responsibility for anything in his life, and to admit fault is not in his nature . As a child his parents always held his 2 elder sisters to blame for his wrong doings ( as they " should know better than to let him do it " ) and that's been the pattern of his life as far as I can see....


I had to dig very deep for proof, and at times I really didn't want to know, I loved him, I didn't want to lose him and tried to persuade myself I could live with it . Ultimately I couldn't.. but it took months of key loggers on the computer , secretly checking his phone and tracking where he went before I caught him out and ended it. I think I NEEDED the proof to make me strong enough to walk away. I needed the proof to stop fooling myself. During that whole time life was hell.

It was very painful.

[Chamomile]

Dear Helen

OH YES..I can imagine how much grief you have gone through..xx I have often wondered as to why those cheaters won't bother leaving the relationship first if they so badly wanted or needed some "escape" or have their own freedom. It would have saved so much pain and hurts.

I really agree with you Helen. Unlucky-E, you might want to dig deep for some hard evidence? I seem to recall from your past posting that your wife was quite open about her need for her escape as she were a caged bird wanting to fly away? If someone is like that, there's little you can do about the situation, but you can learn to change yourself if she still doesn't.

xxx

[Chamomile]

if you have a history of being involved in abusive relationships i think that is something you personally need to address, counselling or something might help.


Hi

Yes. I agree totally. Hope he did get some counseling in the end. xxx

[unluck-E]

Hi to all.

It has been a long time since I was last on here. My wife would not see a marriage counsellor with me, and things didn't improve.

Unfortunately she is moving out this weekend, and refuses to even talk about this. She is willing to give up on our children, our marriage and me. I am beyond trying to reason with her, and I refuse to feel guilty. She needs to start thinking of others, not just her self.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

[Raymond]

It is sad but I do think you will be better off in the long run. She doesn't deserve you the way she has been behaving. Immoral women do not make good wives and it is impossible to have a happy marriage with her behaving like that. I think she has done you a favour quite frankly. I hope you find someone better.