Marriage therapy - how does it actually work?

[Chamomile]

Hi

Hope you nice ppl having a pleasant Sunday.
Hope you don't mind me asking this since I have been wondering about this for some time.

I have been jotting down things that I was going to raise in our first couple therapy and I have also obtained some self-help books (mainly christian marriage books) that people have been recommending on here.

I cannot help getting this awful feeling after reading those books. I noticed issues and problems we had in our marriage had been addressed in those books and I started to wonder if I'm simply kidding myself for believing things would miraculously work out.

Looking at a couple pages with a list of things I wrote, how could this emotionally intense content be tabled amicably during the therapy without causing hurts which could further damage our marriage? I really started to worry that this therapy would end up some sort of "time for a divorce" sessions. I have dropped an email to the therapist asking her how to go about saying these points without sounding too offensive but wondered if anyone on this site could perhaps enlighten me? Did it work for you?

[chosen]

Is the marriage counsellor a Christian?

[Forever]

Hi Chamomile,
From personal experience...marriage therapy is only as good as the honesty brought to the table. If one person is dishonest or minimizing issues, the therapist might not catch that, and is only able to help based on what is said to him/her or what seems plausible.

I tried to get help from my Pastor, who has befriended my husband. The Pastor spends an hour each week talking to my husband about everything under the sun out for breakfast, and zero time talking to me or about our issues unless my husband brings up something to him....but it is usually something that is bothering my husband, not something that is bothering me. Even then, Pastor only gets one side and thinks I should just "suffer" as befitting in the Lord. This has been going on for a couple of years, with no progress in the marriage. Just when I think something good might be happening, the rug gets pulled out from under me.

If your purpose in therapy is to get issues resolved, then sometimes you cannot avoid the ugly details...at which point the husband usually quits going. It might be helpful not to read some of those books so much as to focus on your personal issues and reading the Bible. Prioritize the issues from the most important on down. It can look overwhelming if you try to address everything all together because it would make trying seem futile.

[Chamomile]

chosen

I'm not entirely sure. I knew one place, which is definitely Christian and I see a Christian doctor there. But it's unfortunately quite far away from where we live. But that IS a good point. I might ask about it.

[Chamomile]

Forever

Thank you so much for your heartfelt willingness to share your own experience.
What you're saying is making awful lot of sense.
Thank YOU for your helpful advice and compassion.
Yes, one sided ministering. One would think if both parties aren't included, it would be hardly helpful for the couple's well-being..As you say, Pastor and your H are both friends, which probably would provide your h some undivided attention yet loaded with bias towards him.
It's a deeply unhappy situation.

"Even then, Pastor only gets one side and thinks I should just "suffer" as befitting in the Lord. This has been going on for a couple of years, with no progress in the marriage. Just when I think something good might be happening, the rug gets pulled out from under me."

That sounds really upsetting for you. 2 years, such a long time! Knowing how so warm and generous you always have been to other ppl on this site, I do feel for you and your pain. Someone as nice as you, definitely deserve more!

"From personal experience...marriage therapy is only as good as the honesty brought to the table. If one person is dishonest or minimizing issues, the therapist might not catch that, and is only able to help based on what is said to him/her or what seems plausible."

I would think certainly he will try to put all the blames on me and probably I end up trying to explain things. I try to be diplomatically as possible. As you say, men probably won't go along if he thinks it would be a Spanish Inquisition. Suppose, I should consider as achievement if we did manage to get to the therapist's door this week..after we had a long conversation last night. It was very intense..

"If your purpose in therapy is to get issues resolved, then sometimes you cannot avoid the ugly details...at which point the husband usually quits going."

I have thought that too. Thank you.
It's tough all around.
As much as I would have liked this marriage to work out, I'm not sure how his "pride" would remain to be the main obstacle? It seems that's one of the main for him. His pride gets the better of him and he does not want to be honest.

Last night we had a long conversation over the phone and he mentioned about "how about amicable divorce"? When I asked him if he wanted to use the couple therapy because he couldn't say he wants a divorce (as that would make him look bad?). So obviously, he had already been advised by a legal professional and he has been thinking about the possible scenario? Maybe, I should get mine as well.

I did wonder if he had been seeing other women too. It's odd that he started to go to London more regularly over the weekends. At first, I believed him saying it's a conference for his interest. Then I saw some ugly truth online and that made me change my mind about that.
He got really defensive when I brought this up. I could hear him gasping. Then he vehemently denied and denied and accusing me of having "trust issues" with him. Basically, I wanted to know where I stand. I even said, "if you couldn't tell me he wanted to date other women" then at least, I knew the truth had he told me. I'm roughly getting the idea last night as he's been saying similar things over and over for the past few weeks. I think, he's on his way out (and being a single mode). What confuses me is that he still have real emotions for me and we have been trying to relocate into one home. He desperately still want to have the hope but he thinks maybe, it is a case of the limit in how much he or I can change and it would be back to square one in another house.

One good thing is, he still cares about me and that's probably a God's Gift. Yes, it's comforting to be feeling close to the Love of God in his Bible. Thank you for the Good Advice, Forever. I really, really appreciated it!!

Hope I didn't write an essay, sorry about that.
God Bless

With kindest regards,

[Chamomile]

My h phoned me as soon as he got in from work yesterday.
That really touched me.
He was pretty exhausted after a long day; because of the heavy discussion we had a night before, his voice was quite weak.
He confirmed that he still wanted to try the therapy in a nearby therapy clinic and we are going there today.
Chosen is right. Since, I began to realize maybe, that secular approach may not work that well. This was one of the reasons why I decided to post this thread. Our therapy is not at Rel**te, which he used to go on his own for a while. Knowing our divorce rate is so high, perhaps that's not very effective.
(again, I will happily stand corrected if someone disagrees :) )
It's not easy to swallow my medicines but we started to talk with more honesty.
After all, I realize we both need to think about my own problems/issues and then his together. Not on my own or on his own.

[Chamomile]

I chatted with my h after the session.
We started to discuss more about what we are going to do to repair our marriage and we are far more open and honest about each other. I suggested to put more romance back. He suggested to take me out for a dinner during the week as we used to date.

[Chamomile]

Greetings Moonyoung

Thank you for your empathy and kind words :) You are a Good person.

xxx

[1aokgal]

Hi Chamomile..

Really good idea for you both! Consider counseling for yourself. Sometimes we need balance to deal with our needed emotional support. There are discussion groups in US one can join free.

I wish counselling had been more helpful for us. I chose a male, figuring my husband would respect a man, and talk about intimacy issues better. They bonded. They talked work, his goals and I was left to watch the two of them. After a few sessions of NO discussion on the real issues I figured there was ZERO progress. I think a woman counsellor who better understood my position.

Basically, I could talk to no one and now couldn't talk to that counselor either. I also did not like to pay for and not get good service. I was the one who booked the mans' services. The only time we discussed the intimacy problem was the few minutes on intake discussion. Again, it was like the problem didn't exist. Good idea for you, interview more than one counselor.

I do think the counselling is a very good idea for you both but go separately perhaps based on my experience with this.

[Chamomile]

Hi 1aokgal xxx

I had gone through the process of seeing a marriage therapist solo soon after this thread came up (my h incidentally went to marriage therapy solo years ago himself when I was still busy with my work etc). Mine helped greatly. He said it helped as well. We also have our couple sessions going at the moment. We're both reading Church-related books as well..lol

Sorry to hear about your poor experience with a therapist. Hope they took your feedback seriously. I do discuss what we discuss on here with my h, from time to time. Sometimes, he comes up with his own opinions. I cannot say how we are going to be in ten years time, let alone 5 years but some of the things you said, certainly made me think much deeper. It could happen to anyone quite easily. One thing I know is we both need to make efforts when something isn't working right. But if something is beyond repair, then I'd need to learn to live with it and if I cannot live with it, I'm sure there is something else to do.

I really do feel for you. We experience various forms of rejections in our life and I can really feel that you are hurting so badly. Sometimes, what you say re. 19 years, is really hard to believe. On the other hand, you are a highly educated and talented professional. So, you have done well.

xxxx

[1aokgal]

Dear Chamomile..xxoxx

I know I was disappointed when we went to therapy years ago. I had given myself a timeline thinking there would be a break and a chance to uncover some of the basic truths where all that began. After the fiasco with this counselling it was over on that plan. That was pretty much a closed door to getting any clarity.

Your husband has the desire to change things or he wouldn't participate in these sessions. That is a favorable sign. I hope you see some improvement there. He seems to hide assets with the keeping these things and putting so much ino them. Maybe there is a great fear of loss. Was he a deprived child? Hoarding is a compulsion. In some cases it is a clue that childhood sexual abuse may have occurred. Any idea of this?

That is the icing on the cake for what may be underneath the compulsive need to collect. Yes, I realize the appreciate in value but he gets them in volume. That seems an unhealthy need. Good luck.

[Chamomile]

Hi 1aokgal xxx

Yes, I totally agree with you. I have been there and wondered about that too (at least, some kind of childhood abuse). Nope, nothing. Suppose, collecting really is his passion/escape and these things can escalate when no one was raising any eye brows over many years. So I have my part there. He doesn't deny that it is his scape and I agree, there is an element of "hoarding" once it becomes more obsessive/indulgent in nature. One needs to assess what's healthy and what's not. Whilst he's busy doing this, there is bound to affect other things in marriage when all his energies and attention fall entirely on his work and his hobby/personal interest. I realize this, in hindsight and I didn't dare say much before. (my situation was entirely different.) Things have moved on since. We talk more openly. We are learning new skills slowly.

As for your huge dilemma, I do often think about it. People do on a support site like this. I oft think about your grief and hurts accumulating over years after years. That would break anyone's spirit. I realize you are very independent and assertive. Your h had all the control over this and didn't let you in to help you understand. He's closed off and you feel rejected by his silence. You would have thought he would be gagging for it after so many "celibate" months? Raymond did raise other possibilities behind this. You probably want to address these with a qualified therapist whom you get on with and trust? I admit there are many other horrible things in life to deal with but this has been a biggie in your marriage and you may want to try someone else (e.g. therapist) who can build good rapport in your healing. Without rapport, it's bound to be an uphill struggle.

Sending my virtual love in your way xxxx

[chosen]

Chamomile
I do feel it is vital for a couple to be seen at counselling together. My husband and his ex went to see a couple seperately. He saw the man and she the woman. They never got to the point of seeing them together as his ex wanted to seperate and persuaded the women that they should do that. They seperated for year with no plan of action and never saw the couple again. They then got back together but within a short time she met a man at work and had an affair and divorced him.That relationship lasted less than a year and then that too ended. Still although it was sad that their marriage ended, it gave me a lovely husband so it wasnt at all bad for me. I think she is mad to reject him, as she will never find a better man, and several years later she has never met anyone else.
I feel that this particular counselling couple made many mistakes, but I do know some marriage counsellors personally(as friends) who are very good and dedicated.

[Chamomile]

Chamomile
I do feel it is vital for a couple to be seen at counselling together. My husband and his ex went to see a couple seperately. He saw the man and she the woman. They never got to the point of seeing them together as his ex wanted to seperate and persuaded the women that they should do that. They seperated for year with no plan of action and never saw the couple again. They then got back together but within a short time she met a man at work and had an affair and divorced him.That relationship lasted less than a year and then that too ended. Still although it was sad that their marriage ended, it gave me a lovely husband so it wasnt at all bad for me. I think she is mad to reject him, as she will never find a better man, and several years later she has never met anyone else.
I feel that this particular counselling couple made many mistakes, but I do know some marriage counsellors personally(as friends) who are very good and dedicated.

Hi Chosen xxx

Yes, I agree. It is vital for a couple to be seen at counseling together in that type of situation. Yes, counseling can be very tricky at times.

xx

[1aokgal]

Dear Chamomile..

Most of the negatives are behind. The past and its' reasons can't be resolved or paid for in this day and time. It is remote from me. I am the person I am today. I love him without reservation.
Apologies are no longer needed for my acceptance. Had these things not happened maybe I would never know how strong I would become.

Thanks for your feedback but my own self help worked. There is no trauma today. I agree with Raymond, that in these occupations where men are isolated to work alone, they turn inward with no outlet to handle frustration. I think some have very low sex drives which diverts to work and concentration to goals. The so-called workaholics are generally insular, rather selfish men with sex drives directed to some achievement. Some from a feeling of inadequacy long dormant that surfaces with any career problem. A career falter and a man resists intimacy. This pattern damages many marriages.

His medical problems today are somewhat ongoing. So that is an end to it. Intimacy for me is a past dim memory, not a desire. I lost memories of a yesteryear that played only on the screen of my mind. What might have been was almost as real as it could have been. Passion was the Flamenco dancing
with beautiful costumes and handmade pliable leather shoes from Spain, like my vibrant red suede laced up the leg to the knee. The shoes have stacccato nails imbedded by the shoemaker, to echo on wood dance floors. They seem to have a life of their own for I cannot part with them. I danced for five years with stage group and music and the drama made me young. Passion was the sea, when I embarked with a rescue group with fervor, and achieved good with a life saved. Yesterday was wonderful because I lived mostly in the NOW, and not in how I wished it could be. When there were moments that were hard to bear, I painted through the night until dawn broke.

There were countless hours I painted roses, carefully executed, on the glazed white surface of unique porcelain vases. The beauty of the designs burned into the surface with the sweet, pungent odor of the oil of cloves media. I forgot everything in my life for the hours spent to achieve a rose that lived. There was always impatience to lift the fragile still warm vase from the kiln to examine it under the light for a gently toned, beautiful and perfect thing. It is an artform few learn to achieve.

When it gives pleasure to others who see these pieces, than for me it contains the soul. Would the piece have been painted in a perfect time? Would the canvas portraits ever evolve with perfect contentment? Would I have reached out spiritually if everything had been spent for another? Isn't it true that beautiful music, lyrical poety and the sad masterpieces of the ages were executed by hearts with desire, unrequited?

I am not sad alone.

[Chamomile]

Hi 1aokgal xxx

Beautiful prose which I really loved it! :) Breathtaking and so vivid that you almost painted some beautiful picture with these passages there. Thank you xxx

[1aokgal]

Hi Chamomile...xxoox

My paintings, both portrait in oils and porcelains, all gained by the time in the studio.
If things had been different there would be less time to create. The career years were about survival.
I'm lucky that it has worked out for positive results. Life is very good at it stands.

Hope things are better for you.

[Chamomile]

Hi 1aokgal xxx

Sounds so lovely!! What a Charmed life focused on creating beautiful art work. :) Once my health is a bit better then I'd like to visit some art museum with pottery, arts and crafts. Thank you for such a lovely thought, asking me about my situation. (((((1aokgal))))) xxxxx

[1aokgal]

Dear Chamaomile..

Sometimes we have to stand back from a problem. Too much time invested in analysis of what went before. "How did this happen? Is this my fault?" We can lose the beauty of the today and the things around us.

I can go in the studio and close the door and the stream of thought is about how to capture some thing in the artwork. The beauty is in the moment. You, especially, need to concern yourself to avoid the toxins of anxiety, fear and anger with is a trigger for illnesses. Find something which you love and pursue it in place of the moments you might otherwise lose.xoxxo

[Chamomile]

Thank you for your good thoughts for me, 1aokgal. I'm sending my virtual warm hugs. Hope you're enjoying the lovely Sunny weather in your neck of woods!! (Am I collect to assume that you are a soft-spoken Southern Bell?) xxxxx

[1aokgal]

Hi Chamomile...

Not born southern, but prefer this area. Heat wave invades the East coast the next few days. When not in or around the pool I will be cooling inside with an interesting project. How is the weather where you live?

Thanks for the virtual hug. Things going better for you?