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Shasha
6th April 2011, 05:06 AM
Hi there,
I have been married for almost thirteen yrs. I consider my husband to be a complete idiot and I can't understand why I had ever decided to marry him at all, in the first place. When I had met him in those days, he had hidden all those terrible faults & behaviours about himself. I now see this man as a completely different person, from what I thought he was. Today, I see him in a different light. He knows how to pretend & he has kept that up for years, until slowly, but surely, I began to see my husband for who he really is. *We have a beautiful 10 yr old son and my husband scarcely wants to do anything with him. He is a police officer and I understand when he comes home he is tired, but he hardly wants to take our son out to do fun things with him. I feel sorry for my boy and usually invite his friends home, so he can play and have a good time. I also allow him to visit his uncle's house, so they can do fun stuff together, like movies, shopping, visiting friends, etc. *
My husband is a total recluse and ignores me in the house. There is absolutely no romance, no petting, snuggling, kissing. It's almost as if we are like brother and sister in the house. Sex between us is non-existent and he does not communicate with me, etc. As far as I am concerned, our marriage is as dead as a door nail. He watches tv all day long and sits behind the computer hours on end. Over the years, I discovered he had another interest - porn. I was devastated at first when I discovered about this and have been trying to get him help a few years ago. He does not even have the occasional friend coming to the house to visit him. My love for this guy is very questionable. Now all I do is pray for a miracle for him to change, but fearful that he may never want to change and our marriage suffer even more as a result. As far as I am concerned we don't even have a marriage. Life is like hell living in the house with this man. I truly feel like I am one of the loneliest wives in the world and don't know what to do any more.*

chosen
6th April 2011, 08:12 AM
shasha
Are you both believers?Do you both go to church?

Raymond
6th April 2011, 01:09 PM
Your husband sounds very isolated Sasha. If he is still doing the porn that would enable his isolation even more. Do you think he is addicted to it? Is he a believer as Chosen has asked?

I think dealing with the porn is the main problem here. He could even be addicted to it. I would recommend the DVD Fireproof for you to both watch.

I think there can be grounds for divorce in some cases of porn where there is no attempt to beat the habit. It is mental adultery really, but one doesn't want to recommend that route unless it is inevitable.

Shasha
7th April 2011, 05:59 PM
Hi there,
Yes, we both are born-again Christians. The church he used to attend was a brethren church, where women are not allowed to speak in church. I, on the other hand used to and still am attending a Pentecostal Church, here in London. He now comes to church with me, but lately he has refused to go and just stays home to watch football on tv. I do not believe my husband has any Christian conviction what-so-ever. He also takes me for granted most of the time and depends on me to do every around the house. When I leave things for him to do, he makes an issue about it and sometimes does not do it. I find that he is very unreliable and will not depend on him for anything. Right now I am just barely surviving in the house, trying to keep the relationship on mutual grounds more for my son's sake, as I do not want this to affect him in any way. I have thought of divocre, but I'm not yet ready for this, as I need to finish a course I'm doing in counselling, to get a better job. Then I believe I'll be able to say adios to that man. Only God knows, at this point. I feel so exasperated with all of this and never, ever thought my life would be like this today. I am already 47 years old and in just a few years time, I'll be 50. Who wants this sort of trouble anyway at this age? Thanks for listening, guys.

Forever
7th April 2011, 08:55 PM
Hi Shasha,

I was married for twenty years to a man exactly like yours, cop, porn, withdrawn and indifferent, no spiritual convictions, no communication and sex only when he needed the release....because there were no computers for porn back then, only magazines which he kept at work. He left me with four children and never looked back. Seven years into the marriage, I became a Christian. He went to church for the appearance of it, but could not "connect" with God. He became jealous of my relationship with God (something real, vibrant and alive to me) and became even more withdrawn from the family. He did virtually nothing with our children, although he worked around the yard (probably as a good excuse to do nothing with the children or me).

Then one day after returning home from an appointment, I found myself locked out of the bank accounts and credit cards, and all his personal belongings were gone. He planned it to the tee. He came around three months later on Christmas day to tell me he wanted a divorce. I did not chase after him, call him ect...I just let him go. I knew in my heart that he was never there in the first place. He quickly started going out with women, dancing, and having company over....I could smell the barbeque from where our house was to where he stayed two houses away with his parents. He was a different person entirely, even had friends! It was as though he were waiting to be born for that whole twenty years. I waited five years to see if the Lord would do anything for us...then he got married.

Looking back, I think the Lord did us a painful but necessary favor. My husband simply was...not. I spent many years in the later years of our marriage angry, smoldering internally as you are doing now, yet I kept on serving him and being loving to him "as though" he were a different person. After he left...about a year, the Lord dealt with me regarding that anger (really frustration and grief in disguise), and that is when the terrible grief began. But the Lord is close to the broken hearted, and I did heal.

He is still not a Christian, but obviously happier than when he was with me. I seemed to represent a prison to him, perhaps because I was the stronger person in the mix...but I had to be.

I have no advice for you. I am sorry, but that is what we have the Holy Spirit for. I pray He gives you what you need to either endure this or to do whatever else He want you to do.

Shasha
8th April 2011, 05:24 AM
Hello,
Thanks for sharing your story. I know God gives everyone a different experience, in different measures, according to what they can bear. I continue to trust the Lord for His guidance, although living like this is not easy. Thanks again for your story. God bless.

Raymond
8th April 2011, 05:56 PM
I consider my husband to be a complete idiot and I can't understand why I had ever decided to marry him at all, in the first place.

Although I do sympathise with your situation Sasha I think the above kind of thinking could derail your cause if you are not careful. Who knows what God can do if you start praying for him.

Chamomile
8th April 2011, 08:11 PM
Sasha

I wonder if it might be better to separate from him than living with a man you are positively angry at? It's a bad mental health. This guy would be forced to reassess his vital role in the household once he's alone? You need to stop running after him. He is an adult he ought to take care of himself. If he's addicted to porn and is undermining you then, you ought to drop your commitment level as well. Living in a very unhealthy relationship can ruin your spirutal well-being, as Raymond raised this. It might be worth distancing yourself before things start to upset you even more.

Shasha
9th April 2011, 06:04 AM
Hi guys,
I used the word idiot in my first story to indicate how selfish, foolish and even blind this husband of mine is, to not appreciate his family.

He does not know how good he has it, until something terrible goes wrong, God forbid. For example, he does not appreciate me as his loving wife, who would do anything to make our marriage work, including seeking counselling, praying and just making peace in the home by treating him right.

In addition, he's got a beautiful, striving young son that God has tremendously blessed us with. You could not have asked for a better child. Yet, there are many people out there, who would just die for a family like ours.

Some people face so many difficulties in their lives. Dealing with issues such as disability, physical suffering and ailments, financial problems, sometimes even death in the family, etc. and yet they can still testify of their loyalty and commitment to their families, no matter what. Some husbands and fathers out there would make great sacrifices to keep their families together.

But, as we all know, people like my husband does not get it. He does not understand that he needs to treat others right, especially your family and loved ones. As he shared with me, when he was growing up he had his bread buttered for him and his siblings and they never had to lift a finger. His parents spoiled them rotten and I believe this is why they learned to take things and people for granted.

His younger brothers are both single and still live in their mother’s houses (as they have two properties, simultaneously). His younger brother still allows his mother to do his laundry and cook for him. They’ve always had someone to pick up after them. Both their parents are still alive, whereas my dad passed away some years ago and one of my sisters.

Therefore, I have experienced tragedy in my family. I do appreciate life and those around me. I have been through thick and thin, growing up into an adult and know the pains, sorrows and also joys of life. My husband has never gone through half of what I’ve been through.

I have been praying for him and us and will continue to pray, although I think more is needed besides praying. Prayer moves mountains, but God also gives us wisdom and a will to choose what is right or wrong for ourselves, with His guidance, of course. The decision is left with us to decide what path is right to take when facing difficult situations and I hope the Lord will guide me accordingly.

Thanks for sharing.
Shasha

Raymond
9th April 2011, 09:06 AM
I understand a little more from where you are coming from Sasha. You mean he is an idiot for not appreciating the good that is around him. At first it seemed as if you were writing him off as an idiot.

It is true that a bad upbringing can make or break you so you are doing well to overcome. Having a good upbringing is not bad in itself and does give certain advantages but not if one is spoilt. I was watching Joyce Meyer last night and she shared how she had been raped about two hundred times by her father. She is a living trophy of the grace of God.

Is seems to me that your husband once had a faith but now seems to be backsliding? You said he used to go to the brethren. Did he actually have a relationship with the Lord or was it just religion? There's nothing like religion to close one off to the reality of God. That happened to me in part through Catholic influence which was just religion but no power. The version that I got in a convent anyway.

No doubt you are praying for him, but he still has a choice whether he will respond to God's promptings. The thing that bothers me most is this pornography as that is mental adultery. Things like that can kill off a marriage and regularly do. If he is trying to get victory over it that is different.

All in all I think it is a question of his faith and this pornography. I think there will be a difference between a backslider and someone who has never known God.

Well done for doing things with your son.

Shasha
11th April 2011, 09:14 PM
Thanks Raymond for understanding.
My husband has seasons when he does things and I am still worried about the porn stuff. :mad:
I will be going to see a counsellor, as I do not have anybody close that I could seriously speak with concerning my problems. I'm not sure how this will work, but I am hoping, he, my husband will come along at some stage for counselling.
Please do pray that the Lord will soften his heart and he will agree to some form of counselling. As it stands we do not have a relationship, but just living as housemates, so to speak.

I am mainly interested right now, in him getting the help he needs, as I see he has a serious problem. If I don't help him, I don't think anyone else in his immediate circle will be able to. They would just deny he ever has a problem and he would probably take this to his grave, presumably.
Also, I’m doing this for my son, who loves his dad, but he, my husband does not know how to express and return that kind of love to me and my son. What a pity. He took my son to church on Sunday. We woke up to do a few bits and pieces around the house.
Although I am appreciative, I don’t seem to care that much, whether he does anything or not, as I usually do everything, anyway. :(

I’m married to a log and at the moment there is nothing I can do to change him, he has to make up his mind to change, at this point.

Yes, I believe my husband only has a form of religion, but no real conviction. I have never seen or heard my husband cry. I have probably seen one or two tears, if he is watching something sad on TV, but that is all.

As a friend of mind described him one day, she says he has a very hard and cold heart. That is so true. Nothing ever comes out of my husband’s mouth to compliment me or make me feel good about myself. If he ever does, he would probably make a great effort to say something nice, but that is very rare. When was the last time he did that? I don’t know!?!

God bless and thanks for listening.
Shasha :)

Raymond
11th April 2011, 10:04 PM
I think you have to encourage and be appreciative of the little he does do Sasha. I think you need to encourage it. I think what you say with your lips is powerful over a long period. I think personally that there is power in a woman's tongue to affect her husband through encouragement as opposed to nagging. Showing appreciation for the small things like taking your boy to church. Did he stay as well? If so it would be something to pray over anything he heard. You may think it is not much and he needs to do a lot more but I think that could lead to conflict. Encouragement is the way.

Maybe he has never really been a christian and needs to come into a personal relationship. The scripture shows that you can affect him by the way you lead your life.

With regard to the porn you really need to confront this. Not necessarily in a militant way but firmly. It is no way for a husband to behave and it does need to be confronted.

It will be great if you can have counselling together if he will go.

Basically I think that if you are only going to dwell on his faults you are isolating your self and not working on the marriage. I know that the faults are there but you need to look for the good and encourage it.

Shasha
12th April 2011, 06:10 AM
Yes, I see what you are saying, about me encouraging him, which I do from time to time.
The thing is that this should be an everyday occurrence, for him to help around the house. I don't want to seem patronizing or anything like that. What I've noticed is that whenever I say thanks to him for helping, he thinks he's doing it for me and then backs off from helping.
So whenever he does anything I don't say thank you to him, but to God. My husband is old enough to know that he should be loving and helpful, without anyone spoon-feeding him. After all, it's like having a second child in the home! Sometimes you've got to exercise tough love. God is able and I can certainly depend on Him to do a mighty work in our situation and hopefully a miracle.
What I'm really hoping for and what I truly want, is a good question, as I can't really say at this point. However, I certainly would like God's perfect will to be done, first of all and secondly for my husband to change to be a better father to our son.
Then I would like him to stop his hostility towards me, to treat me right and with respect, to stop taking me for granted and to stop his hyprocisy. Most of all for him to have a convicted heart to surrender all his fears to the Lord and to commit his life to Jesus. Then I believe everything else will fall into place. His salvation should be sure in Jesus.

Raymond
12th April 2011, 08:55 AM
I have to be brief here Sasha as I am rushing off to work. I may come back to it.

What I see is you setting a certain standard in your mind and you get upset because he falls short of it. I don't think it works this way. Marriage is accepting the other as they are and where they are faults and all. That's how Christ accepted us didn't he? Isn't that the starting point? Do you work a certain kind of rejection because he doesn't measure up to the standards you have in his mind for him.

This is all porn aside as I think that is on a different level and can be a mental adultery which is unfaithfulness, but there may be issues there in the marriage which are affecting him. Must go now. Beaten by the clock.

God bless

Chamomile
12th April 2011, 05:16 PM
Yes. That is partly why I would have thought that having some time out from each other, would be of benefit as this will give each other some space and time to mull things over without all that constant thought of anger and frustration. It's not a good place to be.

Take care.

Raymond
12th April 2011, 06:09 PM
It is so easy to see the others faults. Don't we see it on here a lot of the time? I think the very inner mind process of writing the other off can seriously affect a marriage. You must have loved him to start with and now you feel he wasn't what you expected. Do you think you are what he expected Sasha? I know I wasn't what my wife expected and there was a lot of adjustment to do on both sides.

When I say you need to encourage the good I certainly do not mean in a condescending way. You say that when he does a little around the house you perhaps begrudge thanking him because that is what he is supposed to do. I am talking about a broader picture than that. Is the whole goal just about what he does around the house?

I am assuming you have a full time job by the sound of it. Is not his money enough? Just a thought. You say he works hard as a policeman and perhaps rightly or wrongly he just wants to flop when he gets home. I think you have some power in what happens and can affect things more than you think you can. A woman's encouragement is a very powerful tool. I don't think it is said in vain that behind every successful man is a woman. The scripture says she was given to him as a helper. I certainly appreciate how my wife has helped me to become a better person even though at the beginning I had at times to use scriptures such as love your enemies as that is how I was seeing it.

I think you should set goals as to what you want to see. Not selfish goals but goals that would lead him to be a better person and encourage any small steps he makes towards that. Things like being more loving to his son being considerate etc. etc.

I know what you are thinking. He should be doing all this anyway. You have to start from where you are though and accept him how he is. Once you accept and love him for who he is with all the faults you have described a change will happen. I challenge you to thank God for the good things you see in him. Write down a list and even tell him if you are up to it.

Shasha
15th April 2011, 06:42 AM
Hi guys,
I have been quite busy this week and also a bit down with hay fever, but not totally out. Just got a chance to reply:

What I am experiencing with my husband, in this marriage is more than meets the eye.
It is not a normal situation that I am in, but a very preternatural one. I constantly find myself having to depend on the Lord for His strength and guidance, as I just can't and won't go it alone and it's a suicidal thought to ever think I can do it alone. As the word of God says and this is one of my promises and motto - I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
Fighting a spiritual battle is not easy. I am in the middle of a spiritual warfare and everything that is happening in my life, at present is happening, I suppose, to try me. Therefore, I face trials and pain on a regular basis. However, despite all of this, i have to encourage myself, that Jesus paid it all for me, that I may have eternal life in Him. That I need to be strong and need to be in the winning mode, with Christ leading the way, 100%.

Therefore, it's not flesh and blood that I am dealing with here, but something more sinister, and my life, as complicated as it is, is like seeing things having a supernatural effect and they are more esoteric, beyond what the mind can fathom. I may never know or understand everything, but only God knows all the answers to my questions. Only God has all the solutions that i seek.

It's not a matter of how much money my husband makes, or not. It's not even about what is happening in and out of the house, it's more to do with what God is doing in our lives at the moment. As the Bible states, God is in control and He has the power to intervene in every situation. It's not by might, it's not power, but by My spirit says the Lord.

In the meantime, I have to reassure myself that weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. Therefore, I keep myself busy, creative and happy, in the midst of the incessant storm. I may not have a husband to keep me company. I may not get kisses and hugs. I may not be romanced, but one thing I know, I need to press on toward the mark of the highest calling in Christ Jesus. God is my constant companion and it's because of Him, I wake up in the morning. It's because of him I can face tomorrow and I have no fear, because of His love for me.

So you see, in the midst of my loneliness, which can be painful at times, I can still smile. I can still look up, as my redemption draws near. I don't know if I'll ever have a loving husband in my life, as this is at the bottom of my list, at the moment. If I cannot get what I need from the ones that mean the most to me, then why worry. God knows what I need even before I ever get to ask. Therefore, what I need to keep reminding myself is to take my eyes off my situation and place them on Jesus. Do the best to be what He has called me to be on this earth, until He calls me home. Is it going to be easy? By all means, NO!
Thanks for lending a listening ear.
God bless.
Sha

Raymond
15th April 2011, 08:26 AM
Quite a statement of faith Sasha. Who can argue with it. Your husband can not but be affected by your faith. We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers etc. Yes our primary relationship is with Christ but also He is concerned about the answers we seek. Marriage is clearly God's idea and we can rest in the knowledge that His answers are there in the ordinary everyday of faith, in His word and through the way He leads us by His Spirit.

You will obviously come through all this Sasha and will see victory judging by your post.

chosen
15th April 2011, 09:42 AM
You clearly have a strong faith and that is good. I dont believe that God causes these things to happen, they happen because of our sinful nature. I also dont believe that God will go against what a person does or wants, that is their decision, and we all have free will, but he can and does use these situation for our good, and to draw us closer to Him.

Raymond
15th April 2011, 12:51 PM
Yes that was my thought as well Chosen but I didn't get it down.

Chamomile
15th April 2011, 01:53 PM
I have thought of divocre, but I'm not yet ready for this, as I need to finish a course I'm doing in counselling, to get a better job. Then I believe I'll be able to say adios to that man.

Marriage probably does need attention and it's understandable if leaving is not a viable option at this time.

I'm sure you will overcome a lot of things with a strong faith, with love, hope and joy with God.

Baroness
15th August 2011, 11:54 PM
Hi Sasha, I am new on this post but post actively on another one. Faith in God is very important and without God in our lives it would be almost impossible. My husband sounds similar to yours. He sits in front of the tv too and watches reruns. I have also called my husband an idiot because that's what he is.

He has a woman who loves him and yet he chooses to m instead of being with me. I was a mess when I first went on the other post and it was good to talk with Christians and one poster was going through the same thing I had been only she had done it for 20 years. My h has ed and I just didn't know how to deal with it so I went on here and found the help I needed.

Nothing has changed between us except that he is loving in that he says he loves me and will hug me and kiss me but not in the romantic way. The last time we had good sex was last October and this past Feb. we tried but he couldn't finish, if you know what I mean. I got upset because I was frustrated and he hasn't attempted anything since then.

He volunteers up at the local canyon and is a ranger but when he comes home its to the tv he goes and he's watching the same movies over and over again so I can't keep watching them so I go in the bedroom. We don't sleep together anymore and that is just as well since nothing is happening. I racked my brain trying to figure out what the problem was and at first I thought it was me.

Since I am attractive and not overly overweight I just didn't get it. I could stand to lose 8 pounds I guess but I have a shapely figure so after coming on here I realized that it was not me. What gets me is that he used excuses that only a stupid person would believe. He won't get help and I feel very lonely sometimes even though I am living with a man.

Sometimes I feel like the housekeeping and cook and we are just roommates or something but he does tell me he loves me. Today I found out he's been worrying about finances because I lost my job and he is retired and gets social security. He seems good natured about it most of the time and never complained because I was laid off due to the economy.

It is very hard to get a man to talk and you get frustrated when he seems to treat you with no respect. One time I went in the front room and he had the cable on soft porn and was m. This was awhile ago and I hit the roof. I asked him how he could do this to me when I'm in the next room and he denied. Told me I didn't just see what I thought.

I know he has a habit of watching 2 channels at once when a commercial is on but I know what I saw.The next morning he bent over backwards to tell me that the only reason he hasn't made love to me is because he had a blister or sore in the area and was concerned that I believe him and since then he has never made that mistake again.

Now those kind of movies come on really late and he goes to bed way before then. Men seem to always have some problem, don't they? I may be doing better but I still feel like something is missing and I have to read my bible and pray every day but I'm not stressed out like I used to be. My h does not look at other women but neither does he compliment me when I look really nice, not until later or not at all.

I can related to some of what you are going through but you are still young while I am 56 now and I don't want you looking back and regretting your decision to stay with a man who never changed in the least and then you are older and while it isn't impossible for me to find someone else, you don't want to waste many years if he doesn't want to at least try in the marriage.

I have decided to stay with mine because we still have good times and I've not ruled out sex between us. I did that awhile back and he suddenly wanted me and it was great again just as it used to be. I would have a hard time if my h watched porn all,the time. He is not computer literate and I have the only computer in the house.

I believe he truly loves me and that he can't help what is happening to him since he is 65, 9 years older than me, but I also can't see myself not ever having sex again, so we'll have to wait and see. My h is retired and so he likes to watch tv and he hurt his back years ago and was forced to retire.

I am assuming your husband is younger so for him to just want to sit in front of the tv is a problem. I was told that I'm only looking at the bad in him and I should look at all the things he does for me and to be happy with that. I am aware of all his good qualities, but that doesn't make it better for us, now does it?

He is saved but he was a catholic for many years and I was raised in a penticostal church so there are differences. He loves God and has changed so much since meeting me and I feel God wanted us together because he's been kinder to me than any other man. But I don't condone living a life where you are mostly unhappy.

I have always had a system in determining if you should remain in a relationship and I haven't shared this on the other thread. Make a list of pros and cons. Write down all the positive things on one side and all the negative things on the other and compare them. Also, my motto has always been if you are more unhappy than happy then it is time to move on.

I forgot my own motto apparently but there are times when I'm still happy so I guess I will hang in there but not even God can force a person to change or do what's right.

1aokgal
16th August 2011, 01:43 AM
Shasha...

I am very sorry for you and sad thing you are going through now. There is a different element to this story and that is the stress, demands and fear these men live with on a day to day basis. They are exposed to a lot of awful soul numbing garbage. Few have a way to ventilate what they experience out on the street. My daughter is a policeman, and was married to one in the past.

Your husband may be watching TV in a mind-numbing to escape for job stress. Policeman are exposed to climate of sexuality both on the street and in the station house. There are problems that I know exist in the station house where affairs are rather commonplace. Marriages are the toll, from not only the shifts they work, but the relaxed code of morality or malaise that is common in the workplace. It is a terribly hard life and you are not alone. Perhaps there is counselling available to your family through the association? I will ask my daughter about that.

I think you need to be on full alert because affairs easily available around this work environment. I wouldn't be shy about checking clues around your husband. I checked my husbands wallet and belongings on a regular basis. Any woman who doesn't play detective with some of these clues, may get a shock. Then I would say the TV needs to be off one night while the two of you have a serious, none accusing conversation. See if you can find out how he is feeling. Remember, suicide is also something that happens with this job. Is he extremely depressed? That is a great possibility as he blocks out his wife and family. I hope the signs are not missed, if that is the case.

You both deserve more than biding time as roomates. Sexuality is a joyful experience that suffers when undue stress or depression robs one of this vital interest. You probably have counselling for your family available and maybe that would be the right thing. If he is addicted to porn that robs the sexuality from th emarriage. That is a devious soul killing interest. Raymond is dead right on that.

These men live in a climate of danger and street ugliness. Remember an hour of overtime for him, may bring him to a domestic disturbence call where he is killed. So, when he walks in the door with his paycheck, he has put his life on the line every day for you and his family. Most of these men moonlight another side job to make ends meet when the wife does not work. We pay our men in blue a ridulous wage to meet street crime and sometimes assault rifles from kids.

They are our heros who deal with conditions such as men in battle zones. They are there daily, for years. A traffic stop can put his life in danger. These men and women deserve our respect, kindness and love...all that we can give them. I am sure the man you married is there in the shell of this man today. He may need some help. Before you turn from him, pray for him and tell him you care that he is out there in danger. Ask him if it is important to him that you continue to love him and share life with him. See if he will give you some answers. Then rethink your game plan.

Shasha
17th August 2011, 07:39 AM
Hello everyone,
Thank you for all your advice and prayer. Things are still the same at home and I have friends praying for me.

I have just learned to take one day at a time and trust the Lord for a breakthrough, according to His will, whatever it may be.

It's the summer holidays now and I do what I can with my 10-yr-old son, to keep him busy and happy. We plan to go on a 2 dy holiday at a fun adventure park. My husband will be driving. Although we do not have any relationship, he is still willing to take my son on holiday, which is great. I know my son will love having both his parents with him.

I trust wherever the Lord leads us, I will accept and be obedient to his leading and guidance.

Life for me is one big learning curve and I want to get it right, for His sake.
God bless.
Shasha

chosen
17th August 2011, 08:30 AM
Shasha
Sounds good. You clearly have a strong faith, and things can change. A close friend of mine had had many many problems with her non believing husband for most of her marriage.
However over the years, things have gradually changed, and he isnt the same as he was. yes he can still be difficult, but things are better. Also my friends attitude towards him has changed and she has learnt so much through this time. She said that for her, forgiveness was the major breakthrough for her, for all the things he has put her through, and God has given her a real love for him now that she didnt have before.
Hope that you have good times with your son for the last couple of weeks of the holidays. I am sure he will love the adventure park!

Baroness
18th August 2011, 03:12 AM
It must be very hard for you dealing with your husband in that kind of marriage, which isn't really a marriage at all if he is not communicating with you and doing those other things. I know how you feel, I am going through the same thing. Especially with a child it can get very confusing.

I was married to my 2nd husband for over ten years and there was nothing between us for most of that. That isn't the man I'm with now. We still had a sex life but I didn't really enjoy it. Our problems were different. I was really overweight then, close to 200 lbs and didn't care about anything but my children. I didn't work and he couldn't hold a job and he just sat there with no emotion at all on his face in front of the tv.

He was lazy also so I had to do most things around the house and since I knew a lot about that it was no problem but I couldn't wait forever to have things done. I am so glad I finally divorced him after he had an affair. I took my children and left before he could destroy them. My daughter had a very sweet personality and I could see the effect he was having on her. My son was older and had to go to counseling because of my husband's unorthodox punishment of him.

Mental cruelty, locking him in the closet and he would threaten my son with harming me if I ever told and so I didn't find out until much later. How hard that must have been for my son but he recovered and is now in the science field and has a son of his own. When we had my daughter I was very protective as well and saw what he was doing to her mentally. He was just a disciplinarian and nothing more.

The best thing I ever did was leave him. He treated me like I was stupid and I think I believed him. I didn't care what I looked like and was so depressed I wouldn't even want to take a shower in the morning. We always had it hard because he couldn't hold onto a job. So anything I go through now with my current h is an improvement over what I had with that idiot.

He finally abandoned my daughter and moved out of state and good riddance. After that I talked to a counselor and got myself together and lost weight and realized that I was not stupid at all but incredibly bright and gifted. We think a man is one way when we first meet them and he was supposed to be a christian so I had no idea the road he's take.

My parent's didn't like him and neither did my brother and so I ended it and moved on and now I find myself in another complicated relationship with a man who doesn't want to have sex any longer and I can't know for sure the reason why because he won't talk about it.

I think its ed but since he m I'm not sure but by our last encounter I think that's the problem but he denies anything is wrong and I'm beginning to wonder in happiness in marriage is even possible for me. I think we have to protect the children first off.

I stayed with him because I didn't want to take my daughter's father away from her and I had two children with no means of support and so I stayed and then later realized it would be better for them to have no father than the one they had. My daughter is a beautiful human being and good christian but who knows what would have happened if I'd staying any longer?

I'd probably be in jail for murder. LOL. I haven't had an easy time with relationships and I've done everything I can so I guess I just made some bad choices. I didn't love my 2nd husband after the first five years and yet I stayed. My current man I have loved for nine years and I didn't expect it to last but it has. He's a good man but thinks only of himself in this situation. He doesn't even try anymore.

My advice to you is to think of your son first and then yourself because our children are dependent on us to make the right choices for them. Now I realize that I don't need a man at all to be happy but I would like it all to work out but sometimes I just want to walk out the door and not look back.

God has given me strength and i've always had it and I know he is helping me with this but it would be incredibly helpful if he would just come down from heaven and sit in my bedroom with me and tell me what to do. I am a ministers daughter and have always loved God and used to have a ministry of healing but that was long ago.

Try to get involved with things that you like to do. Try to make your life happy regardless of what is going on with him. I agree with 1aokgal that a police officers life can be hard but surely that doesn't have anything to do with the lack of sex and porn. What do I know? My h is out there m when I'm in the same house.

Do men just stop caring after they've been with you for awhile? What is it? Boredom? Wanting something new. I'd like something new too but I am committed. He doesn't cheat on me but in a way I feel like that's what he's doing. I don't know why its so hard to be a woman sometimes.

1aokgal
18th August 2011, 06:01 PM
Sasha...

You say "my son" a number of times in your post. Is this child from a former marriage? You feel your husband is not as committed to making his family happy, as you are? Sorry, but you DO have a relationship as you are a family. It seems you are biding your time to finish a course "and say adios this man!"

That sounds like a spider building a web, biding time. Where is the commitment to work to better things there? Have you set your mind the marriage is already over, but haven't clued him in yet? That means he is bringing home the paycheck and you are now unemployed and wait for your opportunity to free yourself. So one day you will decide you are ready to leave. Is there someone else in your life?

It is sad that you all went on this nice trip but you are there physically, but not emotionally, as you wish you were somewhere else. Where would that somewhere else be? Have things improved in your marriage at all?

Sasha, you talk a lot around your faith but it just sounds to me that you are so depressed you struggle for breath. Have you talked to anyone or do you take antidepressants for these problems?
You have no thoughts to hurt yourself? I am concerned for your well being. It is true that many of us at one time or another thought that things were beyond what we could possibly stand. That is when we have to get up again and find answers or get help. Did you look into any counselling for yourself?

Chamomile
18th August 2011, 07:33 PM
I am concerned for your well being. It is true that many of us at one time or another thought that things were beyond what we could possibly stand. That is when we have to get up again and find answers or get help. Did you look into any counselling for yourself?

Well, certainly, op has been extremely tolerant in this whole situation...(not sure if I can barely imitate what she's been doing myself in her situation tbh..) It has got to be a limit as to how much one can put oneself through...

Shasha
19th August 2011, 07:36 AM
Hello there,
Thanks for your input and questions. First of all, I am employed part time, as a medical secretary. I am a full time parent, meaning that because I work just near our son's school, I am able to drop off and pick him up from sch. Also I am able to run to the school, whenever there is an emergency, which seldom happens. But I am always there for our son.

I say, "my son" when referring to our ten-year-old to keep his name anonymous; but yes, he is both mine and my husband's son. Therefore we both played a part with his conception. There is no other man in my life, except Jesus. I do have friends, both male and female, but I have never been unfaithful to my husband and never will.

If we do break up, my main focus would be in serving our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and to continue to look after our son, until he is old enough to be independent.

Chamomile is right when she/he (not sure if male or female) mentions about being tolerant. Yes it's true, I have truly adopted a spirit of tolerance, more so for His sake, but also for my son's sake. If there was no child I know I would have packed up and left this marriage, in a jiffy!

As I have been saying, I'm not sure how long I can take it, but I do know this cannot go on forever and something has to give! I'm doing my best to remain sane, as at times living in this house can be so unbearable. Money is not all. My husband does not make all that much money, but his salary does help pay for the bills, which I am grateful for. However, it takes more than his salary to make ends meet. My part time salary especially, brings in extra cash for disposable income, for holidays, etc. So my part time job income, goes a long way.

About working to make the marriage work, I've done that already. God is not in the business of flattery. In fact God despises flattery, as He has mentioned in the scriptures. If my husband does not want to remain married to me, there is nothing I or anyone can do to change that. People change and we've got to accept that. God never forces anyone to do anything they don't want to do. He gives us choices to do what is right or not, but it is up to us to make those choices. My h just does not care anymore and prefers to resort to living a bachelor's life again.

I have not mentioned half of the things that I am going through, but God is my witness. Even our son asks questions when he sees things going on. He has even asked why his daddy does the things that he does and also why he does not take him out and do stuff with him, like his friends' dads.

I believe sometimes the situation is affecting our son and it hurts me to see him suffer, because of his dad's irresponsibility in the home. I have to sometimes comfort him and just say that we need to continue to pray about the situation. Even my friends suspect that things are not right between me and my h and have made comments about our situation.

What can I say, but that it is a great testing, indeed! But who knows where all this is going.
Only God knows.

God bless you.
Shasha.

PS: Just to comment about the counselling question posed by '1aokgal', yes, I have sort counselling from the pastor of our church and also outside help. Then when we get counselling and all goes well for a few days or perhaps weeks, then he, my h slowly slips back into his dirty habits, over and over again. Therefore, there is nothing more I can do or even say, for that matter, than to wholly trust the Lord for some kind of answer, which I do not have at this point in time, except that this too shall pass.

1aokgal
19th August 2011, 05:32 PM
Dear Sasha...

I am relieved to hear more of your mindset here. You sound pretty capable to get through what you need to do if the marriage is no longer working. Women often have to plan a goal to obtain job skills and training in preparation for a future of independence. I hope you give your marriage every chance to improve. It is difficult to begin again and no guarantee of a better life than you have today.

I spent a year in college classes in business skills and obtained a real estate license to work flexibie hours around my full time job. It was all planned around a marriage that was in flames. My daughter was young. I found fine child care with another mother who kept her like one of her own. It was a difficult time, but a transition to a better life. there was no way that marriage would have worked.

My daughter divorced her policeman husband. She made a good transition to buy a home, raises her daughter and has made a fine career. She is happy with her life plan and wouldn't put up with a man who had a double life. He had affairs and put her through a mess.

One day these years are dim memories and things will be better. I never regret my own decisions. Just take things one obstacle at a time.

Baroness
20th August 2011, 02:45 AM
I know what you mean about not having any answers and just trusting the Lord, but I think he sometimes wants us to just use good judgement. I don't think he wants us to be unhappy. I am also trying to just do the best I can and I also think I'm losing my mind sometimes.

I just don't understand how a man who looked forward to making love suddenly has no interest at all. We had such a good sex life and now its been many months and I think he prefers to m and I don't understand that because of what we had for years. He acts the same, is nice and thoughtful sometimes and he pretends like there is nothing wrong.

I wonder sometimes why he just doesn't leave if he isn't interested and I asked him this and he said he is interested, is still attracted to me and would only leave if I asked him to because I was unhappy. I am but how can I ask him to leave? Not not anyway. I have asked God what to do and felt frustrated because I don't know what to do.

I was out walking today and I told him that he felt so far from me (God) that he hasn't spoken to me in a long time and I feel alone and is said three simple words; Trust in me. I said I do trust him and just hope he still has a plan for my life, but he's in there now watching some dumb movie and has some nudity in it, but the scene was quick and I didn't know what to say since I've gotten on his case about this before.

I personally think we are over because there is nothing between us anymore, and yet I still find myself running in there to get his opinion on my latest hat, like he would even have an opinion but he's all I got. When I get excited about something I want to share it with him and I keep forgetting that there is a vast amount of space between us now.

He doesn't even try and I know you must feel like I do, confused and alone. You have your son to distract you but my children are older, 29 and 35 so there don't live with me. I have a good relationship with my children, like best friends and they understood when I left their fathers and was glad I did. They didn't really miss a father because we had lots of fun, always.

All I can suggest is to figure out what is best for you and your son. It sounds like he is aware of problems between you and for a son to feel like his father doesn't want to spend time with him, is worse than being without a father because his father is in the home, just chooses not to take time with him.

I know what I'm talking about because my father was hardly around and we didn't do much together but we did do some things but when he would go away because he was an alcoholic, I would think it was me. I hope your son doesn't think that he has done something to warrant this kind of behavior. Children only know that their parent isn't doing things with them and of course they will think its because of them.

It was a horrible way to grow up. I would continue to pray about things but if you think this isn't going to change, you have to think about yourself and your son. I stayed with my ex because of the children but I wasn't doing any of us any favors by doing so. I will pray for you and God can give you the strength to get through this.

I do want to point out, however, that it might not change and you will have to deal with him the way he is. Ask yourself if you are prepared to live this way for the rest of your life. God bless you.

Shasha
20th August 2011, 07:58 AM
Hiya,
Thanks for your comments, as always. One thing I'd like to point out and that is that my husband, D loves comfort and so, he will not just up and leave just like that.

If he could live in this house forever, he would do so, but I am not prepared to remain in this house until I die, God forbid. He has never left his mother's house to live anywhere in his life. He has always lived at his family's home, until we me and moved to where we are today. He has never been independent on his own, which I believe is another set back in his life.

Therefore, because we live together in the same house, does not mean we have a relationship, far from it. I would prefer to live in a home with just me and my son and have peace and joy, rather than to have someone else in the home, who pretends to be a father and husband and is ineffective in his role and is just filling space in a room. No woman in her right mind would want that. Just having a man in a house, is not all. For me and my son, there is no satisfaction and no happiness with our situation.

Baroness, I am glad you had to guts to leave a miserable marriage that was unfruitful and ineffective, good for you! You did well by your kids. Hopefully, I will be given that same opportunity to make that same decision and to move on with my life, as the Lord leads.

Also, 1aokgal's daughter was independent enough & wise enough to find another home and to make a new life for herself, after her rocky marriage. That takes a lot of courage and determination, I must say! Good for her!

Thanks guys for listening.
Shasha

chosen
20th August 2011, 08:45 AM
Shasha
I agree with you.
I do think that all young adults should live independently for a time before they marry. All of my children have done this, and the oldest who married last April lived away from home for 7 years(he is the best and fastest ironer lol) and the middle one who marries next April will have had 7 years of looking after herself. Its so important that we can all learn basic life skills such as cooking and cleaning and paying bills etc before we marry.

Baroness
20th August 2011, 06:25 PM
Yes, don't do anything unless the Lord leads you to do so. I encourage you to read my post on the thread you went on which is about husbands not wanting sex. I think its important to think about how your h feels too. There you might find a reason for his behavior.

I don't feel God is releasing me from this m just yet. Because of all this happening to me I now have a closer walk with God. If everything had been fine then I might not have come closer to God in this way. So a good thing happened out of all the madness and hurt. Everyone has reasons for acting the way they do but not everyone stops to think about this.

They just react to what is happening to them and not why it is happening. I'm not saying your h has a good reason for being this way but it is still good to try and see things from his point of view. Some men are just idiots and don't care about anything but themselves, but others have genuine reason for their behavior and men find it hard to express themselves sometimes.

I left my ex husband because he didn't care at all about me or how I felt and wouldn't listen to me regarding my children and I told him 'I don't care if you are the one who wears the pants in this marriage and you are the head of the household, I am the one who brought these children into the world and I am their mother and I know what they need and what you are doing to destroy them and I'm not going along with you just because you are the man.
If you are wrong then you are just wrong and I'm not standing by while you take my children's spirit and personality away just because you have a God complex or because you think I have to do what you say just because you are a man. You tell me to submit because it says so in the Bible but you aren't reading what it says about how you are supposed to be to your wife and kids.
I won't submit to you as long as you are wrong. You are no better than me just because you are head of the household and I'm not stupid simpleton to go along with you just because the bible says for me to submit to you. I don't think that scripture applies to stupid men!'

Shasha
21st August 2011, 09:14 AM
Hello Baroness,
Good to hear your views, as always.
About my h's behaviour or habit, he has been in this porn thing for a long time, even before I met him and became his wife.
So he really needs to find help with his problem. I came into this marriage thinking he was genuine, until I discovered his bad habit.
If this was revealed to me before our marriage, then I would have urged him to get help and probably we may not be together, because of this red flag!
God bless.
Sha

Baroness
21st August 2011, 08:33 PM
Have you ever talked to him about it and told him it is upsetting to you?

Shasha
22nd August 2011, 11:41 AM
Hiya,
This situation has gone beyond talking at present, as I have done all that I can possibly do. My h does not talk to me. That's how he is naturally and even his relatives/family always say, "...that's how D is". They know him to be like that. He is very cold and non-interactive, if you know what I mean.

It's like nothing can penetrate through those thick walls he has built up, except the Lord breaking them down.

My talking won't do, as I have come to realise, time and time again. He won't open up and even though he does speak about a subject, it is very limited and then he closes up again. He is like this 24-7.

When I do approach him, in a calm and non-aggressive and non-argumentative manner, so we can talk, he makes excuses and says he is tired and will talk, later and then, when later comes, there is always an excuse not to talk. This has gone on for years, so that I have just thrown in the towel, so to speak.

This guy is one like I have never met before. I have never come across another person with such a problem. I know and understand how men in general won't talk about issues, but this one is the worst! My mother always says, that we should never trust a quiet person, as there are very deep issues with them and you never know when they are going to strike...like still water runs deep, kinda thing.

Yes, I have done all that I can, God knows! Everything under the sun I have already tried, but nothing seems to work and plus I do not know who to turn to about this guy's problem, except to trust the Lord, somehow. The Lord can work in anybody's life, if they'll let Him into their lives. This is what my h needs as to do now....to call on the name of Jesus. He is able to work in his life, but only if he'll let Him.

Thanks.
God bless.
Sha

Raymond
22nd August 2011, 12:26 PM
Hi Sasha. Didn't know you came back. Just back from holiday.

A new turn up is this porn thing. I didn't know about that and it puts a very new slant on it form my point of view. I would bet a lot that this is one of the deep problems in your marriage. I always class this as mental adultery and it will always mitigate against the pure sexual intimacy which you should have in marriage. Have you confronted this? If not I would. Until this is sorted marital bliss will be impossibe. It is possible that he may be addicted by now and will need help. Is he open to that?

It looks like he came in with this problem which is hardly a foundation for a good marriage.

Dependant on how bad it is and how you feel and what your faith is I think that it can be grounds for divorce. Notice I say can be. I would ask God if it is a winnable battle in the sense of him changing bearing in mind that he has freewill. I would say he is being unfaithful to you. Maybe not physically but this porn can take on the same symptoms and the same results as if he was doing adultery. It can sometimes lead to the real thing. Although Jesus did not condone divorce He did make an exception in cases of immorality which speaks to me of how important He saw the sanctity of sex within the marriage.

Chamomile
22nd August 2011, 03:30 PM
My mother always says, that we should never trust a quiet person, as there are very deep issues with them and you never know when they are going to strike...like still water runs deep, kinda thing.



Hi

Your Mother is quite right. I'm in a similar situation re. a quiet one. "These men" (according to what I oft read on this site..) all seem to love their porn in their life and they all tend to be very passive when it comes to REAL intimacy with their partners. Maybe, they even hate real women?

It seems almost as if they were so used to replaying porn in their heads and they become so timid in a real interaction with a "live" female e.g. wife.

These men prefer porn where they are the voyeur (one in control) and passively indulging in their sexual fantasies where their wife doesn't even come near. Your h is there physically, shasha, but he's not really with you mentally. You just don't exist in a real sense in his world whilst his porn might be far more essential in his life by the sound of it.

1aokgal
22nd August 2011, 03:59 PM
Raymond...

Do you mean Sasha may have grounds for divorce from a legal standpoint or religious standpoint? If she is in the US there is no grounds due to porn, nor is that adultery. The grounds in this situation would simply be a divorce petition based on, "Irreconcilable differences."

It seems there may be a long while before she is self sufficient enough to decide she has had enough to support herself and live apart. So until there is an escalation of problems she seems stuck. He brings home a paycheck.

Raymond
22nd August 2011, 06:40 PM
I know there can be legal difficulties 1okgal. I was primarily thinking on christian moral grounds. It can get to a stage when it is a continually lusting after other women even though they may only be on dvd etc.

We have had christian wives on here who thought they just had to put up with this behaviour where their H's were openly mb in front of the computer. I think there can be grounds and that God would not tie in a wife for evermore when there is this kind of unrepentant behaviour going on. But that is just my opinion.

It is interesting that porn features in 50% of American divorces. It is probably the same ratio in the UK.

1aokgal
22nd August 2011, 08:08 PM
I was shocked to read how often the social site Facebook was mentioned in divorce statistics. That turns into a major contact point for lonely spouses.

In this case the immorality of the porn interest operates as any extramarital affair because his focus is addictive and robs the marriage. I also wonder if this doesn't go with the profession as 50% of marriages of policeman fail. That is pretty hard on families and part of that has to do with a change in shift hours and the psychology of the street, which is a cynical atmosphere.

Baroness
22nd August 2011, 11:03 PM
My h sounds a lot like yours in that you can't get him to talk and if you try he will make up excuses to talk later and that never happens. He is quiet a lot of the time but not all of the time. I just tried to have a conversation with him and it was like pulling teeth and finally I said, 'I give up. I tried.'

I know he is tired because he did physical labor this morning until around noon but he is pretty much always like this and then there are times when he does talk, but when it comes to our sexual problems he doesn't want to talk about it at all and if he does he just makes excuses like he's tired and acts like everything is fine.

He doens't watch porn because he doesn't have access to it and it comes on late at night, way after he's gone to bed and he doesn't own a computer. His problem is just m but I can't say when he does this, I've walked in on him a time or two but he just denies it. I never realized how many women have to deal with the porn issue or how many women have sexual problems with their men.

Shasha
23rd August 2011, 07:22 AM
Hi there, guys,

Very interesting comments from all of you. Thanks for that! You guys seem to be almost like a support network in disguise, although we’re all aware of the unanswered questions and pressing issues still to be dealt with. However, of course, it is only by God’s revelation and leading, that we can solve and conquer them.

Chamomile posted that…."These men" (according to what I oft read on this site..) all seem to love their porn in their life and they all tend to be very passive when it comes to REAL intimacy with their partners. Maybe, they even hate real women?”

Yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head. I believe so myself…that my husband does not know how to express his love for me and this is one of the main problems. He thinks that bringing home a card when there is an occasion like Christmas, etc. will suffice, for the wrong in his life. He takes after his mother, who just showers her (adult) children with material things to replace “love”.

What they don’t realize is that it takes a lot of communication, consideration of the other person’s well being and expression of love to make a relationship work (in kindness, sacrifice & patience).

My h’s 2 younger brothers (one in mid 30’s & the other early 40’s) are still unmarried and one of them just cannot seem to be interested in women. He will go out with a certain woman and then after about a year or so from their initial date, he will break up with the woman. This has gone on from since I’ve known my husband (13 yrs).

There is something just not right with those guys and only they can sort out their mysterious lives. This makes you wonder why they choose to shove real women away.

Hi there Raymond. You mentioned that…“It looks like he came in with this problem which is hardly a foundation for a good marriage.”

Again, you are so right about this. I believe also that when I met him initially, he pretended to be someone else, whom I fell in love with. Today, he is not the same man I married 13 years ago. I have come to know a different D. With all this, I can now make up my mind whether or not I want to stay with him and I have.
As far as I can see, there is no reconciliation, unless the Lord touches his heart and he comes to terms with his sad situation and makes a complete u-turn with his life, in true repentance for his sake and for the Lord’s. The question is, will it ever happen and when?

Thanks.
God bless.
Sha

Raymond
23rd August 2011, 09:12 AM
Well what is your faith on this Sasha? Do you have faith that he will turn around through your prayers and your life? The scripture encourages us to consider whether we have enough to begin the work otherwise we cannot finish and will be defeated. Read the part about whether the king had enough men to win the war or whether the builder had enough to complete the wall.

In these sort of situations you need some leading to see the end by faith. I do think that using porn can be grounds for divorce which for me can come into the bracket of
adultery. I am not sure about the rest of it although it seems that you have been deceived character wise but you fell for it as well.

I think the porn also prevents him from getting real as he will not be depending on you for his sexual needs. There is something about pure sexual intimacy that causes a man to open up emotionally. At least I have found that and I didn't have the best start in life having had an orphan background. Where this is diverted outside of the marriage then something important is missing. It isn't just sex but the relationship that is somehow part of it, at least for a man. I don't know about a woman.

1aokgal
28th August 2011, 05:06 PM
I wonder what part the profession has to do with some of the problems. There seems a relaxed moral position in some cases because of the traumatic nature of problems these people handle. Being on the scene with murders, suicides, prostitutes and crime is a lot of street material for a person to handle emotionally in their own lives.

We have two policeman in my family, including my daughter. I hate to think of some scenes she has seen first hand. There has to be some emotional space that protects the psyches of first reponders who get exposed to terrible things.
I know divorce is very high in this profession as maybe they become emotionally frozen.

If there is counselling available and he would go, that might give you some answers as to whether this marriage can be saved. People in this profession are trained to insulate their emotions. The porn issue with a man can destroy normal intimacy and builds a wall of secrecy. We just begin to understand how devastating this can be to marriages. There is software that can track a computer and the sites visited from an internet place. Do you think there might be someone else?


I hope you have strong family network during this time.

chosen
28th August 2011, 06:43 PM
I know a lady who went out with a policeman who had been divorced three times. Fortunatly they didnt marry, even though she wanted to, as I suspect they would have been divorced by now. Mind you he had had a desk job for many years so wasnt on the street. Mind you I also know 2 policeman who have long and happy marriages, so it does vary.

1aokgal
28th August 2011, 08:14 PM
Well, it goes as you would say it, Chosen. A man with firm moral foundation is not going to change from exposure of other elements around him or in his job. A rock doesn't erode. The difference is what are the basic teachings and life of the man and his beliefs.

Shasha
1st September 2011, 07:44 AM
Hiya,
Because of my husband's pride and ignorance, he refuses to do anything about his porn issue and would not want to go for counselling, as he does not see what he is doing is wrong. It is his pride that is crippling and destroying him and causing him to be in denial of any wrong-doing.
It is difficult to reach somebody who has built up an iron gate around themselves.
God bless.
Sha

Raymond
1st September 2011, 08:34 AM
That is sad Sasha but God is still on the throne and will be answering your prayers although not overriding you husbands freewill. Nevertheless in His mercy He can make it pretty hot for him if you pray and who knows if he will repent or not. You have surely been praying already.

It is nice to hear from you again. This is such a common problem these days and there is a flood of it happening. It amazes me that he does not even think it is wrong if he is a christian. It has no place in marriage.

chosen
1st September 2011, 10:16 AM
I suspect that he does know it is wrong, after all Jesus Himself said that looking at a woman wiht lust is like committing adultery, and what is porn if not looking at women with lust? However he isnt obeying God, and He is putting the porn before you and God. You cant force him to stop, but whether you stay with a man who does this and isnt prepared to stop, is another matter.

Raymond
1st September 2011, 12:42 PM
That is the big question Chosen judging from past threads.

Shasha
2nd September 2011, 11:47 AM
Hi Guys,
I have just returned from my holidays, where we had taken a short break to go to the adventure park.
It was a disaster from my point of view, although my son enjoyed himself, as he was with his other friend throughout the trip. His friend's mother came along with us, with her son. So the boys had a ball, but I did not, obviously, as there was utterly no connection between me and my h.
He completely ignored me throughout the trip and only spoke to me occasionally.
It seems, I was just tagging along, as he spoke most of the time to the other mother than with me. I only went along to make my son happy, but the trip, where my h and I are concerned, was fruitless and the relationship is as dead as a door nail!
It is obvious that the marriage is completely dead and our friend asked that question (if we were going to patch things up), when she saw the tension between the two of us. I told her, in front of him, that it was finished, but he did not utter a word, nor replied to my comment.
So, on that note, it is clear that he does not want to do anything about his lifestyle, let alone, try to do his best to win me back.
God bless.
Shasha

Raymond
2nd September 2011, 01:05 PM
Your friend doesn't know what we know Sasha. There was a similar case on this part of the forum where a christian woman had a husband who persisted with the porn. Eventually she cut loose and started a new life. I'll have to find it to see if she said how she had got on since then.

It is one thing to have a weakness that you are fighting and trying to get the victory over and quite another to persist in it to the detriment of your marriage.

These things are being worked out in our day as it is quite a new problem historically speaking, hence there are not clear paths as to the mode of action to take. With adultery it is obvious but this kind of stuff still hasn't been mapped out. My own view as you know is that it is mental adultery and hence comes under the heading of immorality and therefore can be grounds for divorce in my view, but obviously you have to work these things out for yourself.

You have financial considerations as well as your child to consider but this thing is obviously affecting your marriage deeply. Anyone with a full commitment to their wife would not indulge in this stuff. As a christian you will know what lies behind it and who it is who seeks to steal, kill and destroy so in a sense the problem is spiritual as well.

What do you think God is saying to you just now?

1aokgal
2nd September 2011, 06:34 PM
Dear Sasha..

I'm curious why you brought all that animosity on this trip, like your carryall bag waiting to explode. You told your husband when the friend was surprised at such tension (on a trip that should have been fun..she asked if you could patch it up. So you said in front of of him....."it was dead". That was just like a nasty slap in the face to the man, who made an effort, to take his family for a nice day.
If he did not engage in much conversation with you it is because obviously your sour face showed your feelings. He went for his son' sake. Obviously he loves the boy to do that for him. He made conversation with the friend. That is, until you brought your confrontation there, where it didn't belong!

Sasha, what did you expect him to say or do? That remark must have been very embarassing for him (and especially to the friend.) Rather spiteful conduct, Sasha. What did you get out of that moment?

I agree this marriage is dead. You are just floating along until you can do better. Many men would take their paychecks ...and leave. I suggest you best curb your antagonism until you have your bags packed and can make your own way! Sorry, I see no Christian effort on your part to make this marriage better to even coexist. I feel sorry for you both when you so waste life. I am sure your son picks up on your ill concealed dislike. That climate in the home will effect the decisions he will make in his life in the future.

For instance..things might go this way after such a day....Wife to husband, "Thanks for taking us on this nice day. I had a great time and I know Johnny did too. It would be so nice if we could do more outings like this." Smile. Can you see why things could not go that way?
This man gets no "attaboy" for the effort made. Why should he make an effort? That was like taking a trip with a frozen pie. Sorry, you don't get my vote for your effort to improve....even being civil here. If I were this man..I would leave..take the paycheck and leave. I guess that would be a problem for you?
I see things a bit differently perhaps. I see your dependency on him and he still does things for his family, in spite of your dislike.
PS You owe the man an apology for your inappropriate response to the friends' question on this trip. Yes, do get some counselling before this marriage blows up in your face before you plan it. You might end up in a shelter without his help.

I also wonder what you label as porn? I remember some thought Playboy magazine was porn, but it was widely read by educated people. World famous writers contibuted political and editorial content. It wasn't my choice of reading, but the magazine was part of our social tapestry for tasteful nudes and commentary. Most men like such reading and I don't label it that as hard porn. Neither are the nude paintings, sculptors in the museums considered porn.

Did you ever love this man?
You said in your post you consider your husband a complete idiot. I guess the answer to that question would be "no."
Isn't there a way you can rush along on your training so he can be free?

chosen
2nd September 2011, 10:14 PM
playboy isnt porn? Of course it is, thats what is is made for. The fact that 'educated' men look at it makes no difference, and just shows that men of all types look at porn. In fact it actually shows that they are not very 'educated' after all.
It may be what is called 'soft' porn compared to the awful things that are available on the ineternet, but it is still naked women in provocative poses that men look at to lust over.
Totally against Gods instruction not to lust over other women.

1aokgal
2nd September 2011, 10:42 PM
Please..don't presume to think you have the straight channel to God's thoughts or intent! Are the statues of nude men and women in the museum art or porn? Shall we rush off to Florence and paint clothing on the statues of beautiful women and handsome men? Shall my art group not hire a model to pose semi-nude, as this is porn? Shall we go through the bible and rip out pages that are "adult?

There is nothing wrong with an appreciation for the female nude body, as it is beautiful. The statue of "David" is beautiful as well. Real Porn is voyeurism for salcious intent. I doubt most who buy the the Playboy mags and read it cover to cover, use it for salacious reasons. Actually they are quite tame next to real porn.

You are so far extreme you must go through life wearing blinders!
Let us say we disagree completely on most issues.

chosen
2nd September 2011, 11:35 PM
Playboy is printed because it is full of images of naked women in very provocative poses. Men dont buy playboy for the articles. If they want articles, there are hundreds of mags with no naked women in them. Before the internet and videos and dvds etc, this was the only real porn that men had access to and many men had piles of these mags hidden their houses.(I knew some of them).

Far from having blinkers, I have seen too much rubbish in the world, and am well aware of what porn is, and what it does to people who look at it and what it does to marriages. Mans mags such as this are porn. Thats why they sell so well, so that men can lust after women, and often many often masturbate to them as well.

Come on now, why do you think that the man who started playboy is a billonaire and lives an appallingly sinful lifestyle? Porn is evil through and through. There is nothing good about it.

If obeying God, and sticking to what the Blble says is extreem, then yes I am. As are millions of others.

Matthew 5v28
But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart .

As for drawing naked people, thats something that I woudnt do. With clothes on yes, without no. We dont need to draw naked people. My daughter has been going to life drawing, they had models who were covered up. The only man who I want to see see naked is my husband. I dont want to see other man naked, it isnt appriopriate.

Porn is porn, and if some seems less depraved than others, thats only because standards have gone down and down in recent times. Porn mags are porn mags, and I think you will find that men will agree. Take the pictures out and leave the articles, and see how many you sell.

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 12:04 AM
The founder of the this magazine is a billionaire and lives a nasty lifestyle.

The magazine with articles and photos of beautiful women should be available to be read by either sex. There are articles, there is appreciation of the human body as God made it, and there is no reason this would be considered hard porn. The harm is not in the photos of beautiful young womens' bodies. If a man will masturbate, he can do it looking at an orange. That's a personal choice.

Of course, art is in the appreciation of the body. Why do you think artists study anatomy for years so the lifelike portraits and drawing are true in form! Artists replicate and perfect the human form in artforms in which they work from paintings to scupture.

Says you, "We don't need to draw naked people." HAHA. You are too funny! Prestigious art schools worldwide devote a major part of the curriculum to figure studies. (Not done under a sheet!)

Shall we tear down the images in the Sistine Chapel as there are nude bodies in the paintings?
There are religions that forbid music and dance as well. Pretty extemist views.

Next you and your ilk will make decisions about what educated people should read and which books should be burned. Use care with your policing of literature, books and magazines lest you become a fantatic others avoid. The bible urges no fanatic citicism of art in drawing or painting the nude human body or in that our society has the right to police what others will buy and read.

The discussion wasn't about Playboy magazine or another. PB is categorized as a mild soft porn. There are hard core magazines out there. Anyone can tell the difference and intent of these mags by opening the pages. We don't need to discuss the merits of magazine here.

My question was to Sasha to see what constitutes her husbands porn issues. Whether this is the use of internet sites or how she uncovered this.
BTW...You did not answer my question. Shall we tear adult content from the bible?

Forever
3rd September 2011, 01:19 AM
Chosen,
I think there is a fine line between "porn" and Art. Art (really good art) is generally not produced with the intent to generate a provocative (obvious sexual) response....the human body can be depicted very beautifully and innocenty without being sexually suggestive....just like clothing women choose to wear in public.

Playboy is definately now considered "soft" porn by both men and women alike...compared to what is now being floated "out there". Any articles of interest written for Playboy (and far better ones) can be read online w/o the need for viewing naked women posing in provocative positions which produce sexual arousal in the "average" man....I doubt Sistines Chapel, or Dante's Infernal would qualify as being suggestive or provocative art.

I think you are right...sales would drop like lead were it not for the suggestively posed naked women in it....but if they put the latest electronics or tools in it instead, it might hold it's own in terms of sales...if not, you would have proven your point to those who are in "denial". The very name of it suggests something doesn't it?

That's my take on it.

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 02:48 AM
A discussion point had nothing to do with the merits of a magazine, Playboy or another. That disrupts the question I asked Sasha which was how she discovered her husband has "a problem with porn" as she posted. I wonder what constitutes the porn she mentioned.

I personally see no heavy objectional material in Playboy magazine. There could be some who buy the mag have problems before they read this soft stuff. There can be films out there with raunch material as well. Each makes decisions about what is choice for them. A man or woman might read this issue occasionally. Some who posed for the issues went on into theatre and film roles. We do not live in the dark ages. Well, some of us do not!

Classical schools of painting glorify the beauty of the human body and a cultured world will continue to appreciate and honor that. Whenever a few think they set the standards or social mores for the majority there is a problem. Thats' my take on it.
Can we get back to the original discussion which wasn't about who tolerates what and why.

Forever, you are correct on the points which concerns art. The mag is seen as soft porn. Strictly a matter of personal choice to read or not. It wasn't the subject of my post as chosen cares to make it. Typically a distraction of the original intent of my inquiry.

Raymond
3rd September 2011, 11:06 AM
I can't think that Sasha's husband is just looking at some magazines as bad as that would be. I would bet that it is computer porn. Could also be dvd.

Yes we should be able to look at the female form in all it's beauty but alas we are fallen creatures and can lust, hence our lives, I speak as a man, need to be ordered. PB was certainly a kind of cultured porn of it's day but porn nevertheless. Don't tell me it was for art's sake as that is an excuse that many use in these days to peddle porn. "This is not porn it is art or erotica". Yes but it has the same effect. Yes there is a place for art but even that will arouse certain of us depending on how it is done and therefore we need to know ourselves.

The tragedy of it is that porn usage eats away at the marriage and seriously affects the normal sexual drive a man should have for his wife through the diversion of the drive. Hence it is a kind of mental adultery and a robber of the intimacy a husband and wife should enjoy between themselves. Jesus knew about this when he talked of looking at another woman in a certain way.

chosen
3rd September 2011, 05:21 PM
The pictures in these mags (and there are many many such mens mags) are women posed in certain poses to incite lust. They are clothed(or not clothed) in provocative clothes designed to promote lust. Their body positions and facial expressions are to incite lust, very sexual. Very far removed from any art. Yes it is considered 'soft porn' these days, but thats because standards have dropped so much in 3O years and,and so much really hard core porn is now available on line, including child porn, porn films, men with men, and women with women, sexual sadism etc etc. However that doesnt mean that mens mags are not porn, it just means that the worlds moral standards have gone down and down.
Porn of any sort is wrong and very damaging to the one looking at it and their families. Most porn users will go to more and more degraging porn to feed their lust. Even if they dont, the mags are bad in themsleves. No married man should look at women who are barely clad (or not clothed at all) to get their kicks. Its unfaithfullness and its also degrading for the wife.

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 06:29 PM
EEGADS...Why do you persist in discussions of a magazine? Is it possible to contain yourselves and not to monologue here and get a question asked on this forum? A magazine or specific magazine has NOTHING to do with this question which I asked Sasha concerning what she found or suspects in her husband about porn!

This now turns into a monologue on porn or the merits of a magazine/or not or a specific magazine! Perhaps it is internet or perhaps something else. Is it possible we can get that established?

Sasha...I asked the question to you. Have you discussed this?

Helen_uk
3rd September 2011, 07:20 PM
Sasha,

You first posted about this back in April . Has anything changed since then ? Can I ask why you think your H is an idiot ?

It seems to me you have very little love for him, if any at all so for me that begs the question : Why are you continuing with the marriage ?

Whilst it's true , from your description, he isn't putting much into the marriage and it would appear he has no plans to alter that any time soon I would have to say if it were me I'd leave.

In fact that's pretty much what I did do when it became apparent that things in my last marriage had reached the point of no reconciliation. I worked hard for quite a few years to try to fix the problems we had but to no avail and at some point you have to make a decision about whether the marriage is tenable or not.

It does seem that neither of you are really getting much out of it or appear very happy , so maybe it's time to make that decision ?

chosen
3rd September 2011, 07:52 PM
The point is that whatever 'type' of porn her husband is looking at, it is still porn, and that is still very hurtful for her.

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 08:00 PM
Who knows what kind of porn he is into! It is impossible to communicate or ask this poster through your speeches on porn.
There was a point to inquire.

The point of your lectures here were....????? You are insufferably rude!

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 08:13 PM
Helen...

As always, your points are well taken. Exactly the impression I got from Sasha's postings were the marriage is locked into dislike, no compromise, no progress and no happiness for either.

She prays for her husband to change. I thought he shows that God answers those prayers in some ways as this husband does try in this marriage. He took his son to church. Sasha writes ..she did not care and it made no difference.

This father then took his family to the theme park. His wife has so much anger she confronted him with an embarrasssing remark to impress the other lady who accompanied them! The husband ignored the comment. He tried to carry through for a civil day. Those actions on his part show his love for his son.

Conclusion....Sasha neither likes nor repects her husband. There is so much animousity she can't control herself in a social situation.
That marriage is over and just needs an end to it. Sasha has his paycheck and he continues to do his duty to maintain the household. It is a lose, lose situation for him. When a marriage descends to this level the emotional detachment means there is no possible resolution.
There is no portion of blame in a marriage as both either contribute, or do not.

Forever
3rd September 2011, 08:19 PM
Hmmm....
I dont know if this will help you Shasha, but I was married twenty years to a policeman. He was very much like your husband is, including the porn which he had started in his early teens. I knew about it, but never understood the impact it could have in a man's heart...I was only 18. The result of this, is that while handling his work in a professional and detached manner, he also handled his marriage the same way. Being young, I did not know that there was something amiss...I had nothing to compare our marriage to since he was mostly uncommunicative and I was busy raising children and running a home fit for a King.

He left when he decided that there was so much more "out there" to be had besides the wife and four children that were his.

His porn, (magazines at the time since there was no internet), taught him to fantasize and that he had set his standards too low when he hooked up with the likes of me. Add to that my faith in God and being an outgoing person with considerable drive and intelligence, he felt threatened (though I did not know it at the time).

My advice to you would be to be kind, civil, and continue to follow the Biblical guidelines for proper behavior given to Christian wives....in spite of your opinion of him or of his behavior. If he leaves, or if the Holy Spirit prompts you to leave then you will have a different future to look forward to at that time.

Best Wishes

chosen
3rd September 2011, 08:43 PM
Who knows what kind of porn he is into! It is impossible to communicate or ask this poster through your speeches on porn.
There was a point to inquire.

The point of your lectures here were....????? You are insufferably rude!

I think you will find that that you actually initiated all of this by implying that if Sashas husband was 'only' looking at porn mags, then it didnt really matter much, when it matters a lot to wives when their husbands are lusting after women in porn mags. Thats what I found demeaning to Sasha(and other women whose husband buy these rubbishy mags).

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 08:53 PM
Dear Forever..

That must have been devastating for you in that young marriage. I do think that unless a man has a very firm moral foundation that profession is hard on marriages for the temptations these men find out there.

My family has two policeman. One is my daughter, and the other the father of her child. That was already over while she was pregnant. She realized she made a terrible choice and did not chooose to marry. By the time the child was born, he already had another woman expecting a child. She was 18, and realized that 32 year old 2X married guy with other children, was a poor choice. He has the morals of an alleycat and married this other woman. While he has been good to his children, he sets a poor example for them.

I think these men keep much inside because of drama in the job environment. That makes it easier to live a double life. There was also a study to suggest many live with post traumatic syndrome, similar to men in battle zones, who have flattened emotions which is why they could be drawn to porn for the adrenelin in responses.

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 08:57 PM
Chosen..

You missed the point of my question....to find out what porn she found and address that. Had you followed the discussion ..I think you would get that. I tried to find out what had happened.

I never said "only looking at porn magazines." That is in the eye of the beholder..you.
It is called fact finding in most counselling. Here..a waste of time.

Forever
3rd September 2011, 09:10 PM
Chosen,
The lack of respect is now an ongoing thing between both of them...but it was initiated first by his disrespect for his wife by continually using porn, and then by her since finding out about it. Porn on any level usually becomes a "deal breaker" in most marriages where there is no repentance. Since she did not initiate a divorce (based on Christian principles rather than legalities) then what you are looking at here is the long term damage in both of them.

No doubt, he is the instigator here, but she keeps seething because she has not done anything to take a stand and initiate a remedy that relieves her pain....and he is simply not going to repent although he calls himself Christian. Regardless, she needs to watch her own attitudes and behavior as long as she is living with him. The marriage is dead....the man is a fraud, and she must be careful not to compromise her Christian character any further if she is not going to divorce him.

1aokgal
3rd September 2011, 10:48 PM
Agreed porn can be the deal breaker but even that suspicion is poor excuse for total disrespect and uncivil behavior. My attempt was to get the story as to what she found/suspected and if the subject was confronted. We never heard the story, only her statement.
She prays for change, but doesn't allow that he could make them with her behavior.

Even in a marriage I believe that a person is innocent until there is strong indications leading to ones' belief.

I leave you both to sort the issues.

Shasha
4th September 2011, 10:39 AM
Hello there, I am not upset with you for expressing your views, after all this is what makes the debate lively.
It is one thing to post messages online to such debates and an0ther to actually live the life I currently live. My main reason for joining these discussions, is to see if other people are experiencing, what I'm going through and to see how they are coping or have fared out.
Forgiveness? Oh, yes. If I had not forgiven my husband, we would not have these discussions, because I would have been long gone from the so-called marriage.

Raymond, you asked "What do you think God is saying to you just now?" To answer your question, I do not have all the answers, but one thing I do know that I can do and that is to set goals. I do not know what the Lord has in store for me at this time. This is why I am staying put for now. It makes no sense to me to jump from the fire, into the frying pan. It is unbearable at times, yes, but it does me no good to run off, when I can easily take a few baby steps at a time. Then eventually the road will be clear to do what needs to be done.

I am now trying to occupy my life, by doing things that interest me and things with my son, doing my course, preparing for my retirement years, etc, as the Lord leads. I'd better make some wise decisions, before I just pick up and leave.

1aokgal, you posed a question, “I also wonder what you label as porn? I remember some thought Playboy magazine was porn, but it was widely read….”

I do not think you have any idea about what it feels like to be betrayed, even in the simplest form. To answer your question, "I also wonder what you label as porn", my husband confessed to me, some time back, that it was his father who introduced him to porn, well not directly of course. It all began when he was a child and stumbled upon those same magazines that you have been mentioning in your thread. His father used to have them hidden under his mattress, etc. That was how my h first got hold of those God-forsaken items.

Then, I guess that's where the root of the deception started in a young child’s mind and spirit. A few years ago, I woke up in the middle of the night to find my h engrossed in front of the computer. I was curious to know what was going on, as I could hear sexual sounds coming from the computer. Getting a little closer, I could see movement of what was explicit sexual acts enfolding right before my eyes and need I say more! I was shocked, hurt, and confused, obviously!

So therefore, he does not only watch porn magazines like 1aokgal seems to think, but progressed into hardcore live computer porn! I had a chance to speak to him about this and he just ignored me. I tried to find out if he was addicted to porn and if so to get some help, but got no where with this. I have stumbled upon this behaviour on more than one occasion and even masturbation.

To respond to your comment about my husband leaving me. Yes he could probably set off and leave, but he loves his son and would not sacrifice this move, if he wanted to. In addition, he is very comfortable in the home. Meals are done, housekeeping done. He gets to watch his tv and stay on his computer 24/7. My h’s life is sweet and he always has his way and has no care or bother in the world, as far as I can see.

My husbands's paycheck keeps coming up all the time in this discussion. I have to stress that he does not make all that money, as people think. The money he makes is just enough to pay some of the bills and even that is not enough, sometimes. Thank God, for my part time job which enables us to use the cash as disposable income and to pay for other bills, etc.. There has got to be two pay checks in this household to make ends meet. I have to try to budget the money properly, in order that the bills are paid on time, that there is food on the table, clothes on our backs and enough money for him to spend on himself and for computer parts, etc.

To touch on the earlier comments about me being rude to my husband, when my friend posed the question to me…..I know what kind of person my h is, so therefore saying what I said must have made him think. Immediately after we returned from the trip, do you know what he did? Well, his behaviour towards my son and me has changed somewhat! I have started to see a different man. After the trip, he has been doing things with our son like preparing his dinner, he has made an effort to talk to me and to even sit with us, now and again. I do not know how long it will last, as he always start like this, then gives me hope. After a week or so, he begins to slip back into his old habits again, once I start to respond to his kindness. Then his behaviour leaves me to wonder if he was just putting on a show. Then he will go on to ignore me, withdraw from us and starts to spend more & more time behind the computer and tv. He would start treating me with indignation. He would ignore our son and not interact with him and will not talk to us in the house for days at a time.

As for being personal, if any one of you may think that my behaviour with my husband sucked, then, by all means, have your say. I have examined my heart, my words, my actions and have asked the Lord to forgive me for them, if they were offensive or untimely. I'm not perfect and get to learn from Him and get corrected on a daily basis, as there is always room for improvement. But I cannot pretend that things are perfect and pretend and hide my emotions. After all, I'm only human and there is only one who is perfect and that is Jesus Christ.

So, as I have said before, I have done all that I can possible do, until now I just try to maintain my sanity and focus on things that make me happy. Thanks so much to those who have been a great encouragement to me, since I have joined these discussions.
God bless you and may you be prosperous in all your endeavours.
Regards, Shasha

chosen
4th September 2011, 02:05 PM
shasha
Thast sad about the way your husband was introduced to porn, and thats how many men start. My dad used to have a pile of these evil porngraphic magazines in his wardrobe.I do feel for you it must be awful and humiliating to have a man who lusts after other women like that, whether in mags or on the internet or on tv or in dvds.
Keep praying, and asking God for clear direction in this. Only He knows the future and whether your husband will ever stop this way of life. I believe that long term unrepentant porn use is grounds for seperation and also divorce.
Its serious and damaging stuff.
I know a lady who God clearly led to divorce her husband after she found out that he was looking at porn with his small children in the same room. The judge even said that he wasnt allowed to see his children unsupervised again, thats how seriously this non Christian judge viewed it, and rightly so.

God Bless

Helen_uk
4th September 2011, 03:46 PM
Sasha,

I'm sure your behaviour toward your H has most likely been caused by his behaviour toward you. It can be very taxing to live with someone with that kind of habit.

I posed my question to you because if the marriage has no love left and you are struggling when he isn't prepared to try then you're in a similar situation to the one I was in a few years ago.

You have to weigh things up and decide if this is the life you want , because that may be the way it stays. You can only do so much in a marriage and sometimes unless both people are willing to work hard to effect change , you have to walk away.

1aokgal
4th September 2011, 05:54 PM
Dear Sasha...

You letter gives more information about your situation. You are not the only woman who deals with these issues. This forum is people with various problems who stay and support others. It would be true to say many who respond to a particular thread do so because they experienced similar problems. They do indeed understand what you describe. Most of us don't speak from the pinnacle of perfect, but from living through similar events.

You are gracious to accept what is said. Perhaps you can internalize some changes that might be positive with what is said here. You cannot have a life with any quality (even if you are biding your time to make a better future) without realizing you are being more than unfair. It really doesn't wash that you have a part time job and he carries the household. Your whole plan is to get out of there. What he does is for you and to keep things running for his son. You are living in a limbo because you already decided you are out of there....except in physical presence.

That is like a short time employee who takes long lunches and doesn't carry his share. That is a mindset that will not make any changes possible. On the one hand you claim you are a Christian wife, but on the other hand you are like the day help who goes home at the end of the day. In order to effect changes you have to commit maximum effort to this marriage.

I know very well policeman don't make a lot of money. My daughter supports her house payments, cars, raises her daughter and earns a bit extra with jobs she does outside her police work. She depends on her own efforts the last 15 years.

True, you need two incomes to keep bills paid and live decently if you save for your escape plan. Your part time job barely pays you to leave the house. You need two full time incomes. If your plan is to spring out of there it would be best to do it SOON so he can rebuild a life as well. The poison in your household also translates into danger for him to carry onto the job. He goes daily into unpredictable and dangerous events. Personally, I feel you OWE him a household of peace so he stays safe. He can't have a head full of conflict and not be in a vulnerable state for a disaster to occur. He keeps the roof over your head and deserves more than your grudging participation for what he tries to do.

It is right you show some appreciation for the good things he tries to do. To take the son to church is a good beginning on your prayer list. For you to treat him as a lampost is not part of the deal that he make efforts for you and you ignore that. Who are you that he should stand your keep while you take from him and say he is an idiot? I find that thought process to be so far from what you profess, it is unnerving. If you were my daughter I would want to tell you that you cannot effect change when you are unwilling to change yourself.

The other point is maybe if you will change, you can help what might be an addictive personality who gravitated to this interest. That means that his problems have to be addressed from emotional, physical and spiritual nature to what has become an impulse difficult to control.
It is not enough to be uncivil and argumentative and live in a limbo. Perhaps you have to corner him and give him your love and support and seek together to overcome the problems. This is like intervention for any person who is possibly unable to effect changes himself and needs help. Save the judgment calls. Picture an alcoholic unable to save himself. While you are not entirely responsible for another, it would be helpful for him to know you care enough to see it from this perspective.

There are support groups for these problems in the US. Perhaps you can make inquiries and get literature for him. I hope you will see he is not a bad person but has lost his way. He cares for you otherwise he would have walked out the door by now. I think you live in a dream world of your life tomorrow and lack the ability to see you do nothing to put that into place as reality. If you are going to make the break there is no perfect time and no deliverer to carry you along. Maybe if you put a supreme effort to help where you are now things could change.

I think you never loved this man and maybe needed an escape. Perhaps you can rethink things. Maybe you will find qualities in him you haven't seen for awhile. Sometimes people have more in their hands than they realize.

If you do want a different life. You will need to work full time. It is unfair to expect him to carry the bulk of the household while you do what you please and plot for a future without him. Perhaps the best plan, if you are unable to invest yourself in your marriage, would be for you to make a break. You might get help or be able to live with your family but it would be better. Now you depend on him but have little repect for the fact he supports you. That is not nice.
You will need to work at a reasonable job or live below poverty standards.

Raymond
4th September 2011, 09:49 PM
Sasha the best advice I can give is what you have said yourself in your last post. I am sure you can sift what is for you and what you can reject of the advice you have been given on this thread. I do not personally agree with all the comments made, only some of them. The important thing is that you are wanting God's will. You are living this now. We are not.

In a way your husband has not chosen the pornography, as the opening had been made in his childhood through these magazines. However this does not justify it and it still has the same affect on a marriage. Until he accepts it as wrong and gets real help no progress will be made towards a wholesome marriage, but that doesn't stop you progressing as a person. I do sympathise that you do not want to jump out of the frying pan in the fire and pray that you will find His way forward which I am certain you will.

Forever
5th September 2011, 12:25 AM
Hi Shasha,
I think you did love him, and forgave him over and over and over...I also think that love can erode over time when there are so many things that pile up unresolved in a marriage. I lived the life you are now living (first page of your posting, you will find some of my story). So I know the betrayal, the indifference, the silence, the taking for granted, the throwing you a bone and then reverting back, the spin and crazy making double mindedness ect, ect, .....and I know the loss of respect, the pain, the shattering of our perception of ourselves as women, the inability to help a person who does not want it because they are comfy just the way they are.

Another way to look at this...he has been ensnared by the Enemy years ago, and what has been happening is the fruition of that sad truth. He will not be set free by anything you say, do, or threaten because this is a work that is wrought by and through the Holy Spirit....but you can get in the way and make God's Voice to your husband indiscernable in various ways. A person is not defined entirely by their sins, yet at some point, consequences will have to be paid.

This is why I ask you to continue in kindness...as one human being to another, while you and he are still living together. I personally do not think you were out of line when you answered the question by your friend by saying "it is finished"....an honest answer, to an obvious situation (unless you got ugly and snarled it).

That said, however, since it is finished as far as you are concerned, I think you should move out asap. Since you work part time, and since he will have to pay some child and spousal support, you could swing it if you are not picky until you finish your classes and get a better source of income.

I do not see you as "using" him or his paycheck to bide your time...you are earning your right to be there and always have been by all you do for him, the home, and your son. His choices set the stage for your need to respond this way. If you need to plan your exit (and who wouldnt have to?) then that is what you should do. The house, the bills, all of it does not matter a hill of beans if the situation is unbearable.

BTW, my ex husband was like this years before he ever became a cop if that makes any difference.

Baroness
5th September 2011, 05:38 AM
Sasha, your behavior towards your husband at times is very understandable. It is hard to be gracious and nice to a man who would rather look at naked women, no matter what magazine they are in or what his sources are. If my husband had a playboy magazine and tried to tell me he was looking at it for the articles I would laugh in his face.

The point here is that our men shouldn't be looking at magazines with any type of nude women in them. It isn't where they are looking at it, its that they are looking at naked women. The hurt you feel causes you to react like you did on your trip and maybe by saying what you did in front of your friend, you were trying to find out what he would say about it.

When he said nothing it only made you more upset and I understand why you react like you do. I think you loved him very much at one time but he has destroyed a lot of those feelings and you have every right to feel the way you do. He acts like he just doesn't care but we can't know what's going on inside his head.

Perhaps he doesn't care anymore and isn't trying. It's a merry go round with him acting one way some days and then better others and then he just goes back to the way he was acting. I know about this and my advice is to not expect him to change that much. Only God can change a person but the person has to be willing to change and listen to what God is trying to tell him.

God gave us free will and if he chooses not to heed what God is telling him then nothing will change. He knows its wrong to look at porn and he doesn't care who knows it. I do know how you feel; you've been hurt by this man for so long that you can't see anything good anymore, only the bad in what he does.

I would suggest you take your eyes off of him and put them on God. Men are human and they will have faults just like you and I. Your only peace of mind and salvation in all of this is to turn your thoughts to God and what you do have, such as your son and your relationship with God.

I find it helps to occupy yourself with other things. A hobby, or just getting out of the house for awhile or taking a walk. Perhaps if you treat him with indifference like he does you, he will see how it feels. A husband looking at naked women, whether it be film or magazine, is like a slap in the face. I don't know why we have to endure such things from men we love.

I have been in this marriage with no sex and I was going crazy and was very angry because it seemed as though he didn't care but I started thinking differently and now I just convince myself not to dwell on it by doing other things, turning my thoughts elsewhere because obviously getting upset and dwelling on it isn't going to help.

If they would talk to us about what they are feeling maybe we could understand but since they don't we are left to guess what is going on and if they look at other women then it only intensifies our resentment and hurt. I started focusing on losing weight, not so much that I thought it would make a difference to my husband, but because I knew I would feel better about myself.

I have lost 6 pounds in two weeks and I haven't starved myself but walk a lot and eat smaller portions. When we focus all our attention on another person we are sure to be let down and maybe God wants your thoughts more on him and less on your husband and his problems.

If things don't get better then perhaps you should think of making your own way because this can't be good for your son to be around and you must think of him. It isn't fair when a man or woman change things in a marriage and stop giving affection. It gets confusing because you don't know whether to stay or go or what's best for your child.

Praying about it is the only thing you can do but if your heart is not in the marriage then perhaps it is time for you to go. This isn't healthy for anyone in your household and its very frustrating to want something from someone and they never give it. But being resentful isn't going to help you. It is very stressful and then you ask God why he is allowing this to happen to you.

I did that and instead of leaving him I turned to God for the strength to get through it and I treat my h just the same even though nothing has changed. I had to accept that he was just that way and I either live with it or not. Sometimes we can't afford to just leave because of finances so we feel stuck.

But we don't have to be. We have a big God and he can show you what to do and when to do it. Or he can give you the strength and courage to deal with what you have to. I think that you need to hear positive things from us and that we shouldn't be snapping at each other on this post because that doesn't have anything to do with the issue here and isn't helping.

We all have a right to our opinion but not everyone knows how you feel and what you are going through. It's hard to be sunshine and light when you feel your world is crashing down around you. But you can't let this destroy you or discourage you because your son is looking to you for guidance and his young life is what's important.

You are dealing with a lot, just as I did with two young children and I left my ex and I have never looked back and have always been glad I did what I did. I had to protect my children and regardless of how my h acts now and what I am going through, I still do not regret doing what I did. I can't tell you what to do about this.

All I can say is that God will help you do whatever it is you need to do, just as he did for me.

Shasha
5th September 2011, 07:10 AM
Hi again,
Baroness, Raymond, Helen, chosen, and forever, you guys are a God sent! When I read some of your views, it has brought a tear or two to my eyes, mainly because, I believe the Lord is using you to encourage me at this time. Thanks so much for your wise words.

The church I attend has no support groups to help married people, like me, so thank God for the course I am now enrolled in, which provides for such support.

My household is not filled with anger, turmoil and resentment. No, far from it. Because I want to maintain a happy and comfortable atmosphere, I do not nag at my h at all, although I had done so for a short time. If anyone comes to our house, they will never know that there is a problem in our marriage, although people have suspected by some of the things that have happened outside the house. For instance someone asked me if things were okay, when my husband irresponsibly forgot to pick up our son from school on more than one occasion.

Also, his after school teacher suspected something was wrong when he did not take any interest in our son's French class, by what she saw. She said that I did not have to say anything to her, but she knows that something is not right with him. But what could I say? If they are seeing things, without me saying anything at all, you can imagine the extent of our problem.

I have never had an argument with my h in front of my friends or his family or relatives. I try to keep civil conversations with him, when our son is at school. Our son knows that something is wrong, by the questions he asks me about his dad. Sometimes, I do not have the answers, so I just tell him to pray or go ask his dad.

Some people may be supportive of men, despite their bad behaviour, esp. in a marriage. Some tend to be even male sympathizers, no matter what they do. Well, I am so sorry that others feel that they have to defend such men. It seems they have a soft heart, when it comes to men in general and try to justify what they do.

The statistics of men killing their wives or partners is very high and domestic violence is on the rise, for one reason or another. Our society needs to dig into the reasons why men lash out and mistreat their wives and even sometimes their own children.

Again, just to reiterate, my home is free from arguments and I do not hate my h. Yes, I am upset with what he is doing to himself, his home and his marriage, but as I've said before, I do hurt and I am human. I am also not going to sit back and make him abuse me in anyway.

My fighting back involves trusting the Lord, like I've never done before and focusing on Him. I do things to make me happy and at the same time plan for my future and for my son's. Whether people like it or not, that's my own defence.

Oh, by the way, my h does not object to me planning for my future and for doing things to make me happy. He has never expressed that he hated what I do. As long as he has his space and can do what he wants, he does not care about anything else. That's just the way he is.

Thanks and God bless.
Shasha

chosen
5th September 2011, 01:14 PM
Shasha
As others have said lean on God and trust Him.
The verse that cames to my mind is the one from proverbs 3v5-7
lean on, trust in and be confident in the Lord with all your heart and mind, and do not rely on your own insight or understanding. In all your ways know, recognise and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths.

Not sure if you have heard of that amusing phrase that says "Submitting to your husband is ducking so that God can hit him" I love that.
Sometimes we need to draw closer to God, and stop trying to change our husbands so that God can hit them. lol. Your husband needs dealing with over this porn, as it is so damaging for the marriage and for him and you. I am not sure how he can justify it if he is a believer, as it is expressly going against Gods instructions not to lust after other women.
However, pray for him, lean on God, and see what He leads you to do.
God Bless

1aokgal
5th September 2011, 04:10 PM
I sympathize with anyone in an unhappy marriage. No one can take sides when two people are in pain and have lost years of their lives and a marriage fails. It is a bad situation and one that takes work to plan for a better future. I also believe in fair conduct. I believe when a man makes an effort for his family and it goes as nothing, rather than for a woman to say she appreciates those efforts, that she doesn't do her part. I don't agree with a mindset that a woman call her husband an idiot under any circumstances. That is gross disrespect when he is the one who keeps a roof over a womans' head. If one can pray, one can realize this is unchristian behavior.

I think it is wrong to use another as a meal ticket rather than be honest to say," I intend to leave, the marriage is not working." Sasha mentioned "working for her retirement." In order to do that in the US a woman needs to be work full time and pay into the Social Security system. Nobody can live on less than $200 month at age 65, unless they find another man to support them. It seems a woman who doesn't care anymore would go ahead and move back home and put those escape plans into motion. That would be better for all parties. Other women here did just that. Perhaps she is afraid to hold a real job.

Now there is no attempt to put quality into the marriage. One cannot expect changes in another without doing a share. In the love she might have shared with this man it would be worth to see if they could work through some issues together. There is belief he wants to do better and changes might work. The child internalizes hostility in a household so keeping a surface situation is not the best for him. If it is true it is over, this man has a right to know so he can plan his future as well.

Holding onto a marriage for convenience robs the other person of honesty and a chance to begin anew. We don't know how God might be working in this man to change him. It is obvious he does make an effort with his family. That would be a beginning if a woman cared enough to build on that. A loving heart can do many things. The problem I see is to play with a hidden agenda which robs all.

Raymond
5th September 2011, 04:32 PM
I am so glad you came back Sasha. It would have been a tragedy if you departed because you felt some condemnation coming across on here. We are not here for that. If there is any straight talk it would be done in love from most. You talk about your defence but beloved sister you do not need a defence. We are not judges, or shouldn't be. We both know who the accuser of the brethren is. You have been walking through this tragedy for a long time. Please take an online hug from me.

There has been talk of your behaviour and how to be in this situation. Yes you should be like a christian as some of us are endeavouring to be as well, but in no way do you endorse his immoral behaviour for one minute. Please be clear on that. It not only harms the marriage but also your son needs protection as you will readily know from your husband's history. You don't want to be an enabler of this behaviour by some half baked theory on love. You certainly need God's wisdom in the situation.

Personally I don't believe that God expects you to show romantic love with this going on as the porn will have cut though that. Rather you need to confront this behaviour, not necessarily in a militant way, but certainly in a consistent way. Who else will do that for him? Of course we have to love, even our enemies it says, but loving our enemies does not mean we enable their sin for one minute. You've said that to a certain extent on your replies and I agree with it.

I also thouroughly agree with Forever's comments on the financial situation. You have certainly made your contributions to the household and courts these days do recognise this in the settlements they make if it comes to that.

chosen
5th September 2011, 05:58 PM
Totally agree with you Raymond. The mother does an equally important a job as the husband whether she works part time, full time, or as a full time mother. Women arent afriad to get a full time job, they know that their children need them for more than for 2 or 3 hours a day. While the child is young the father will need to pay her and the child maintenance, if she has the child most of the time, and she will almost certaily be allowed to stay in the home till the child is 18, at which point she will almost certianly be awarded half the value of the home if it has to be sold. The court always put the childrens needs first, regardless of who has earnt what.

No women can be expected to be loving and to have sex with a man who constantly lusts after other women (which to my mind is unnfaithfullness) That kills the intimacy. After all, which naked woman is he thinking about when they have sex? One of the many he has seen that day probably.

God Bless

1aokgal
5th September 2011, 06:35 PM
In US courts there is no longer separate maintenance paid by the husband to keep a woman in the home until the child is 18! There are no "settlements" today in favor of Ex-wives but only distribution of marital assets as a home in community property states. This is no rich man and he will pay no maintnenance.

The only money he has to pay is child support until age 18. There is one child, and Sasha will be lucky to get $150 a month support. He will be ordered to add the child on his health insurance plan for a temporary time. That is old school thought that the man will continue to support an EX-wife! It is not done. Only the very rich pay maintenance as Tiger Woods, a notorious philanderer, shown to be at fault in marriage by high power lawyers. Mel Gibson, since he was at fault with many children, a long marriage and assets. This man is a policeman. He is not responsible for her keep in future. She is an adult and she will pay her own way.

Helen_uk
5th September 2011, 06:54 PM
The courts in the UK don't pay maintenance for ex wives either unless the child is disabled and in need of care or under school age.

They do allow the carer of the child ( which in this case would be the mother ) to remain in any jointly owned property until the child / children reach the age of 18 , however they would be liable for the mortgage for the most part . Sexual equality laws mean wives are not considered property of a husband or an ex husband as they used to be and are therefore responsible for their own living. Which is how it should be really , we wanted equality so can hardly complain now that we have it !

Once the child reaches 18 ( 19 if the child is still in full time education ) the property has to be sold and any equity divided equally, the wife may be entitled to some N.I contributions for the child care years toward her state pension, but that amounts to peanuts really. She may also be entitled to a part share of any private pension for any years she was primary carer of a child and therefore unable to work, again for normal families this is peanuts.

1aokgal
5th September 2011, 07:22 PM
In the US a marriage beyond 10 years means the wife can also get a portion of a Social Security benefit paid out to her husband at age 65 as a monthly subsidy. Since this man is a policeman it would not be much. There is also pension he accumulates with the state and EX-wife gets a portion there on retirement age.

chosen
5th September 2011, 07:35 PM
I know of many cases where maintenance was paid by the husband for the mother (as well as the children) while they were fairly young. I never said that it would be paid till they were 18.
Helen is right that in most cases the carer of the child or children is allowed to stay in the home until the children are 18. At that time it would be sold and the proceeds split according to what has been agreed in the divorce.
Dads here pay far more than $150 for each child. MY ex husband wasnt earning much at all, and he paid £400 a month for our youngest child till she left full time education at nearly 19. This was the amount worked out by the CSA(child support agency) and depended on what he earnt and what his outgoings were etc.
If the wife works and the husband is the carer, then the wife has to pay maintenance to him. When my brothers ex left him for another man, the 2 teenagers stayed with him and she paid him maintenance for them.

Many cases dont go to court thankfully, but are agreed between the 2 spouses.

Forever
5th September 2011, 08:25 PM
I had a twenty year marriage in California. I was legally "entitled" to spousal support until I remarried or cohabitated... and then half his retirement when he retired. I could have stayed in the home, because spousal support and child support would have covered the morgage payment. I chose to take non of the above.

Child support for two was $1400 a month, set by me, and based on what I knew I would need...not based on what I was entitled to...and that is what the children and I lived off of until I remarried....my ex was a cop but made about $48,000 a year at the time of divorce (twenty years ago). I am sure my ex was thrilled at my choices.

Things have changed since then, but it is unheard of that child support of $150 is that low unless the mother is making much much more than her ex husband...all income is factored in as well as percentage of time spent with each parent.

chosen
5th September 2011, 09:17 PM
Forever that what I thought. A policemans pay is pretty good compared to many others. I would have thought that a figure of about $500 a month for each child was reasonable.My ex husband earnt far less than a cop and he payed £400(which I think is about $500) a month for her maintenance.
$1400 a month that you got was pretty good especially for 20 years ago. I lived on less than that between 6 and 12 years ago for 4 of us(2 teenagers and a very young adult and myself). That included maintenance and earnings.

1aokgal
5th September 2011, 09:33 PM
In the US it is normal the home is sold and proceeds divided as marital assets in community property states. If the parties agree, one can maintain the home to live and make payments there. They must get an approved home equity loan to pay out to the other party his half. The mortgage company has to approve the plan based on the income of party to assume the loan. Otherwise the home is sold and divided.

Things have indeed changed in 20 years! Women who never worked then, with 20 years of marriage got maintenance. They don't now. There is after 10 years of marriage possible today, some amount due her under a his police pension as well as SS benfits. This depends on his number of years employed, base pay and state of residence.

Forever
5th September 2011, 09:37 PM
Yes it was pretty good, it amounted to about 1/3 of his income (I had none)...he did well too. There were actually four children I had to take care of at the time, but two of them were older and did not qualify. He did not have to pay the spousal support because I turned it down, did not have to share his retirement, I turned that down too, and he kept the house (I Quit Claimed it to him)....who knows what equity was there... I never took him back to Court for anything....just calculated what I needed and never looked back.

He paid this amount for 19 years regardless of my being remarried later because our youngest was one yrs. old when he left and was held back in third grade. The Courts (at that time) did not consider a new spouse's income as counting against the Child Support payment amount....I do not know how they work that now.

1aokgal
5th September 2011, 10:35 PM
If one lives in the US they can go online and the states child support guidelines are there. They determine the adjusted gross income of both parents today. Child support now is a piddling little amount that women get for children. It is not for nothing the new poor are women with children.

Years ago my best friend got alimony of over $1,200 month. He kept the 3 kids to raise. She got half their lavish house, plus part of his pension later. She had been a homemaker. She got work after the divorce that was average and she never had to pay support to her husband. She got the payments for 15 years.

Today a wife might get 6 months maintenance to allow for job training. When she works she would pay him child support based on state guidelines and both their adjusted incomes.

chosen
5th September 2011, 10:56 PM
Here the child support agency works out how much the absent parent pays going by their income and how many children there are. Some couples agree between themsleves but the husband can expect to pay a decent fair amount considering the cost of bringing up children. An amount of $150 dolars from a man on a policemans salary is extreemly low(in fact appalling) and I am sure that she would get more than that if it came to them divorcing. If she lives in the UK it will be far far more than that.
In the USA I expect it varies from state to state like most things seem to do.

1aokgal
6th September 2011, 12:16 AM
Child support is different state by state and there is a chart by income. The support today is figured on Adjusted Gross Income. If a woman is in the US wants to determine what she is entitled to in a divorce she should consult an attorney. She needs the last year tax return showing joint income with AGI. That determines child support.

It is also true that often a man wants the best for his family and disregards these charts. He will support them above the legal required. Thats' why even when a marriage is unravelling, they got into it together, and can work toward both remaining in good shape. The children benefit from parents who can cooperate and make the future better for both.

I think close relatives also show amazing support in most cases by helping the couple with children through a difficult time.

chosen
6th September 2011, 06:28 AM
yes if they have close relatives. Sadly I didnt, as both of my parents died quite young(one in 50's and one in 60's). They would have helped me if they had been around.

Baroness
6th September 2011, 08:57 PM
Sasha, like you I don't nag my h either and ours is a peaceful home and last night he slept with me. It's been a long time and I say this so you will see there is hope. My h sleeps on the sofa most nights and I don't mind this since there has been no sexual relationship between us. I believe it is ed and also believe their is m involved.

It's a first step at least and one I wasn't really expecting. He told me he loved me and we just had a nice evening listening to music and talking which hasn't happened in awhile. I don't pressure him to admit anything and I think it's wise of you to try and keep a peaceful home for you and your son's sake. Nothing can be gained by arguing but sometimes you get so frustrated you just have to speak your mind.

My belief is that you are doing the best you can under the circumstances and I see nothing wrong with you staying there even if you decide it isn't going to work. After all, he's the one who broke the contract of the marriage by basically looking at other women and getting satisfaction that way. It isn't anything you've done and I think he owes you for having to put up with this.

I have a similar situation where I can't leave just yet until I get myself financially secure and that isn't easy with the economy right now. Your h came into this marriage of his own free will and it isn't right that he changed the rules and just expected you to deal with it. You are entitled to certain compensation and I don't think there's anything wrong with staying in the home until you can support yourself and your son.

However; things could improve because God is a mighty God and can do anything. I try to believe that myself but I get frustrated as you do and think it's unfair, and it is. I do not take your husband's side in this at all because no one is forcing him to look at naked women and neglect you. As for him trying in the marriage, I see from what you've said, sporadic attempts at best.

Even though this is happening to you and I and others, hatred does not enter into it because God doesn't want us to hate anyone even though they have hurt us and abused us mentally. I think its good that you have a part time job so you can be there for your son, and I don't believe that you don't want a full time job or that you are incapable of having one.

I believe you are doing your share in your home but he isn't doing his share as far as your personal relationship goes. I know what I'm talking about because its the same for me. My h takes care of the rent and one bill and I take care of the food and one bill but I am also starting a hat design business so hopefully things will improve for me.

I also go on interviews but as I have said, things are not easy in the economy right now so all we can do is our best. I can't in all honesty tell you to stay with your husband just because he pays the bills and because you are a christian. Even though he may not go out and sleep with someone else, I still believe it is cheating because he is having a sexual relationship with these plastic women he watches.

That also applies to my h if he is m. Of course ed is not his fault so I see no reason to take it out on him but he could have been more forthcoming so I didn't have to wonder about him having an affair. Some people may say that you are fortunate because at least he's staying home and doing it instead of getting it outside the home.

I do not agree with that. Cheating is cheating whether it be m or porn because the bottom line is he isn't doing it with you but getting satisfaction from another source. This is a very hard thing for a woman to deal with who loves her husband and suddenly she isn't getting what she needs.

I personally do think my h is an idiot for giving up the great sex life we had and for not at least trying. When intimacy stops between a couple something is taken away from the relationship. When I say I feel like i'm living with a roommate, that is exactly the way I feel. We are nice to each other and we don't argue all the time and co-exist well together.

Fortunately my h told me last night that he loves me and will always love me and he did sleep with me last night but I am very certain that tonight he will sleep on the sofa again. All I asked him for was for us to have a little intimacy every once in awhile, I wasn't asking for him to make love to me every night and he can't even do that.

But he did sleep with me last night. There was a little intimacy but no actual sex and so that part remains the same but at least he did try and we had a good night together. If you have read the other post I post on you will know that when I posted I was ready to leave him because I was upset and frustrated and indignant that he would do this to me.

I got help on that thread because I saw that other women were going through things of that nature with their h also. No all of them were going through the exact same thing but it helped to get advice from other christian women. Some times it was hard to accept what they were saying but I eventually did and so now I am not angry all the time and unhappy.

I found a creative outlet to help me with that and since I started focusing on other things in my life it was much better, especially when I grew closer to God, which I think is what he wanted. I have always been a strong woman, able to deal with adversity and handle it. This was something I had trouble with because if affected me as a woman.

I understand how you must feel but you shouldn't feel bad about any emotion that you have because you are entitled. We are the victim here, not the man. I don't mean we have to be victims and we can rise above it and take control of our lives, what I mean is that your h is at fault here, not you, and I'm sorry I can't feel any remorse for him, no matter how many times he does make an effort.

I am not an unfeeling person and I try to see both sides but in this case the evidence proves that he is deliberately cutting you out of any physical relationship with him. In my case, I have decided to stay here and pray for something to change because I've known this man for nine years and we used to be very happy and have a good sex life.

And if it is just the ed I can't turn my back on him because he's nine years older than me and is suffering from this condition. I personally feel that these men, whatever their problems, could still make an effort where we are concerned. If not physically, then at least have the decency to tell us why this is happening and make an effort to make us feel loved.

You are waiting for God's direction and this is all you can do at this point. We don't want to just make a move and it not be what God wants. I don't know about other christians, but for me I believe that God has a plan for my life and I don't want to step out of his will because I've done so before and it isn't a good thing.

I also believe God can direct you on what to do and how to deal with it, and it isn't up to anyone else to tell you what God is trying to do in your life. This is between you and God and no one has the right to advise you on what to do. I am only giving you my opinion from my experiences and because there are similarities between us.

No matter what happens, you will survive and make it through because you have God helping you. Some days I just want to strangle my husband and then other days I feel an overwhelming love for him. The love has changed somewhat because of whats going on but is still there. If it wasn't, I would leave or ask him to.

It's very odd, because I have always left the man when things didn't work out, I was never left. This has to do with a lot of things I won't go into here but now I find myself staying when I really want to leave sometimes because it isn't fair but who said life was fair? The age difference between us never mattered before but now it does.

I tell you all this, Sasha, so you can see that I can relate to what you are going through, at least in part. I walked into the front room one night about a year ago and he had on cable porn where a naked woman was having sex with a naked man and I came unglued. I said how could he do this to me when I was right in the next room.

He denied it and it has never happened again and the next day he tried to tell me that he was just switching channels. I caught him m while it was on and he also denied that. He said I didn't see what I thought I saw, I misunderstood and that is bull. I know what I saw but like I say, he never did it again and I remember the hurt that washed over me at that moment.

So I do understand how you must feel at times and it is up to you whether you feel you can handle this or not. Personally, if my h was doing this all the time and didn't care if I knew it, I would be out the door no matter what my financial situation was. But I have high standards for myself and so there are just some things I won't live with.

I don't know if I will stay in this m or not but for now I'm just trusting God and doing the best I can. I think you are very brave and are handling this very well and try not to get discouraged because God has his hand on your life and one day it will be very clear why all this happened and what God was trying to show you.

Shasha
9th September 2011, 05:35 AM
These are very interesting discussions, indeed. Thanks Baroness for sharing. I live in the UK, but can still identify with a lot of what you guys have been saying.
At the moment, I am very busy with my son as he has started school on Monday. Then there is my course starting next week, as well, on top of all kinds of domestic matters, house chores, errands, etc.
Sorry, I cannot take part in discussions fully, as my time will be very limited.
All the best with your future topics.
God bless.
Shasha

Baroness
15th September 2011, 06:53 PM
I hope you are doing okay, sasha. Thing in my household have definitely improved. We are more affectionate towards each other and smile a lot even though nothing has changed sexually between us but I find that as long as he at least hugs me and kisses me once in awhile and talks to me, I'm okay with things for now.

It did concern me that in Oct. it will be a year since we have sex and I think I will mention that to him but as long as things are going this well I see no need to constantly talk about it. If he feels comfortable he may attempt to make love to me, if this goes on further than a year I don't know what I will do because I am not willing to spend the rest of my life never having sex again.

I think he still has a sex drive but is afraid of failure. I hope that my postings have helped you in some way, maybe to let you know you are not alone. I am just trusting God to show me the way and to work with my h. I do see a difference and I do trust God and I have stopped focusing so much on him and more on my relationship with God.

Shasha
16th September 2011, 04:01 PM
Baroness, I am happy that things are taking a turn for the better with your husband. I guess some men just need time to get themselves together. I am observing how my h is behaving with me on a daily basis. He has his moments when he will talk, but other times he just sticks to himself. The relationship is still the same, but as you say, I too am just focusing on the Lord and the things I need to do to stay alive and well. Everything else, I am just leaving in the hands of the Lord.
Some things are just meant to be left alone, as we cannot change them. Only God can intervene.
Take care,
Love in Christ,
S

Baroness
16th September 2011, 07:29 PM
I agree totally with what you say about some things being meant to be left alone. I get advice on what to do and say regarding my situation and some of the things I know my h would never agree to. I know him better than anyone and if I were to suggest some of the things I was told, it would only make the situation worse.

I know people are just trying to help but there comes a point where nothing we can do or say will change anything and that its all up to God. All we can do is try and deal with the situation and trust in God. I do believe there are some men that can't be reached, that they like what they are doing; whether it be m or porn and don't want to change.

I hope our h don't fit under that category but there will come a time when we have to ask ourselves; Okay, I've done everything I can, I was patient and prayed about it and he just doesn't want to give up what he's doing, so am I going to just live like this for the rest of my life?

Eventually you and I will have to think about what is healthy for us and what we can live with. Are we willing to just deal with this forever? Are we willing to not have a sexual relationship with our h forever? Especially for you since you are younger than I am. Sometimes I get tired of dealing with it but right now I'm okay.

It helps to focus on other things such as me designing hats and my devotion to God. Yes, he and I are getting along great but the fact remains that he still isn't doing what he is supposed to do, but is sweeping it under the rug because if I'm not going to say anything about it, why should he? Now, in a case where ed is involved, he can't help the way his body is but he could at least try and get help and this he will not do.

Sometimes I think I'm doing more harm by not showing him that this is a problem for me, but I can't go around being angry and mad at him because he won't do what I want him to. I do know he still has a sex drive, at least I think so, but he just doesn't respond to me. And it isn't as though I am propositioning him or coming on to him because I don't want him to do it out of obligation.

I have talked to him about it and so I have decided to just get along with him and love him and not bring this up because all I would get is excuses and I'm tired of hearing them. He says he loves me so this must be a problem he either can't help or prefers m where its safe for him. As long as he doesn't start watching porn I can live with it, but the truth is that with our cable that kind of thing doesn't come on until late after he's asleep.

There was one other time long ago when I saw that he went into the menu and chose to watch an adult movie. It didn't cost anything. With our cable we have on demand where you can chose to movie to watch right away and I saw it and asked him about it and he said he was just curious as to the title. I saw that he only had it on for about seven minutes but he never did that again.

He doesn't realize that I can go into the system and see whatever he has watched on this on demand feature. I know everything about the cable being electronically inclined and so I tend to know everything about something like that, but he is not and I had to teach him how to use the remote control.

When he saw how much it upset me he stopped that and also the adult movie I caught him watching, which is to his credit that he would care about me getting upset. There are many good qualities about him and I am still attracted to him which is why this is hard on me. But as I said, God is helping me a lot with this and I am able to just let it go most of the time.

Even though God helps us it still isn't fair to us and these men know this and chose to ignore it and do what they want and this isn't right because if we were doing something that they didn't like, wouldn't we stop doing it because we love them? I'm sure we would and I'm sure we have done this in the past.

This is not our fault, Sasha, and I want you to remember that. I don't know why its happening and I never thought I'd have this problem but all I can do is trust God but God can't force someone to do or not do things, they have to be willing to do what's right and if this hasn't changed by the time I am on my feet with a job then I will have to re evaluate the situation.

The only thing about that that bothers me is that I still love him. Yes, the love has changed but I still love him and I'm not sure I could leave him if I still loved him. Too bad God can't just send us an email or call us and tell us what to do. All I'm getting from God is to just show love. I have always shown him love and forgiven him things as he has done for me.

Like your h, mine talks to me sometimes and other times he doesn't. There have been times that I discovered that his quiet moments have nothing to do with me but he's been thinking about something else, something regarding his volunteer work, the bills, or working on the car. Remember that they don't think like us, they don't understand how we feel.

If your h was going through what you were, I'm sure he wouldn't handle it as well as you do, and the same for me. I'm sure they would be complaining about it constantly and demanding to know why it was happening. You and I are sisters in the Lord and must help each other through this, which is why I started posting in the first place.

A lot has happened in my life since I started posting. I renewed my vows to God and I'm now walking close to him and putting him first. I have changed a lot and this is no longer eating at me constantly. I wanted him to change and fix this problem and instead I have changed and am relying on God to fix the problem.

Shasha
17th September 2011, 05:10 AM
Baroness, like Paul mentioned in the scriptures, about having a thorn in his flesh.....well we've got a bigger thorn in the flesh to deal with. Our question is do we remove the thorn by force, do we live with it, so that it is a constant pain or do we rely on God to remove it for us?! That is the questions, isn't it? But for now, I have to live with it and try to rely on God for his guidance in dealing with it. Hopefully, one day I and I'm sure you also will get the victory!
God bless
S

Raymond
17th September 2011, 09:35 AM
I think your problems are quite different Sasha. Your husband is blatantly doing pornography which is far more serious in my mind. Of course you are both looking to God which is right and commendable, but I don't think your situation will go away unless your husband turns and repents over it. That is the real killer of your marriage and the thing that cuts right into the intimacy you should have. Of course God can work and convict him as you pray but He will never cross his freewill and one is always free to choose God's way or not. I really hope through your prayers and confrontation that it will change in your marriage. I am counseling a wife who has decided to get out of her marriage. I don't really find it in myself to say you have to stay while the husband is doing mental adultery.

Raymond
17th September 2011, 12:51 PM
Sasha this is one wife's situation who is preparing to confront her husband about the dreadful porn he is into.

Ah, what a night! I am still at work doing my planning and preparing in private for this confrontation!*

I have to have a few more things in place before I do it, namely: some money set aside, a bag packed in the trunk and my cell phone and keys on me. I did manage to speak to our priest today, and he restated what you had said, that it must be confronted absolutely. He cautioned me to do it in a public place where there were people who would not hear but where I would still feel protected in case he was unpredictable.*

I have done a lot of (heartbreaking) research tonight on this addiction, and I have a much more empathetic view of what has happened, but I am firm in that he must either seek recovery or choose to leave the marriage, that I will not abide both. I have written out what I want to say so that I sound supportive and not condemning and reassure him that if he chooses our marriage I will stand by him during recovery as long as he is open and honest about the relapses which will happen.*

I gathered some resources for him and a listing of sex addiction therapists, accountability software and sites for support. I will have to speak to him about it and pray for a good outcome. Only God can heal him if he wants to be healed. God does not want me to live in a marriage with this, and as awful as I feel, I have to lean on Christ to help me to be compassionate and loving because I sure want to pot him one.*

I had to go to the lawyer because I grew scared when he was googling "Divorce law in AZ" and whether or not my dental practice was considered community property in a divorce. I don't want to punish him, but I don't want him to punish me for exposing his secret either. Hopefully the lawyer I see on Monday will be more helpful than the one I saw on Wednesday.*

Can you think of anything else I should do in preparation for this?

Shasha
18th September 2011, 06:35 AM
Hi Raymond, thanks for that. You know, there are many times that I ponder on leaving this marriage, because he does not want to do anything about his addiction and also to try to do something to save our marriage.
He is in total disobedience to the Lord in these respects. I am fighting and am in the middle of a spiritual battle at the moment, but the evil forces are huge. Therefore, it is not by might, nor by power, but by His spirit that I shall win this war. A lot of odds are against me, right now. But hopefully some day soon, I will see the end of the tunnel. I know I will get the victory in this.
In the midst of all of this, He has given me peace, even if just for a time, until He can make a way for me and my son.
God bless.
S

Raymond
18th September 2011, 09:41 AM
You are absolutely right Sasha. There is no room for this stuff in a christian marriage. Also you should not reproach yourself in any way in imagining that you came short physically or something. The above lady thought this way but it is a lie from the pit. The truth of the matter is that the husband was tempted and fell for it in a big way and is now addicted with no sign of repentance. A bit like your husband. He is supposed to be a christian as well but there is not much sign of it. She will be confronting him on Monday.

God is faithful when we look to Him but you may need to make some decisions at some point.

Baroness
18th September 2011, 10:27 PM
I was talking to my brother and we are very close and a lot a like and he has has a big problem in his marriage for about then years. His wife is addicted to pain pills. She just had surgery on her back but before then she was taking pain pills and now its just rediculous. She steals my brothers pills.

My brother had a serious accident years ago and had a slipped disc and he needs his pills but she either steals them or wears him down to where he gives them to her. I has to lock up his pills and she gets her own from her doctor but she takes too many and then takes them from my brother.

My brother is a christian but feels nothing for his wife anymore and they have no physical relationship and we were talking about why we have to deal with this in a partner. My case is different in that I still love my h but he doesn't and hasn't for awhile. There's been too many lies and she's freaked out from overdosing and has been in the hospital many times because of it.

She is a manipulater but a nice person on the surface and we get along well but she's always got an angle. She has a back brace and is in pain and her doctor is trying to wean her off the pills but she is addicted to them and her behavior has been bizarre, even spiritually bizzare and I fear for my brothers life sometimes.

He wants to leave because he's so unhappy but is wanting a sign from God. I love my brother and I don't think he should have to keep suffering like he has for years now. We were talking and we both don't understand why God hasn't done something about our individual problems. In his case I think it would be better for him to leave.

She has threatened his life and I know this is hard for him but he doesn't want to do anything that God wouldn't want and so we are kind of in the same boat. I just don't understand why we have to go through this kind of thing. My brother should be happy, he should be with someone who wants him. He has a sex drive similar to mine and told me its very hard.

beenthere
15th November 2011, 11:08 AM
I just say you two need t communicate and see why he act the way he does. But in reading the beginning of your story, you calling your husband names was out of line. No matter what he is or is not doing that is your husband and you should respect him as his wife. If you are going to leave the marriage then do so, because complaining and having these ill feeling about him probably show up in your actions. If you plan to stay in the marriage figure out how you can make it work and remember God can draw a husband through a believing wife. As a married couple I am not against porn unless it is affecting the marriage . It is okay in my book if both husband and wife is participating in it to enhance their sex life. The bible do say the marriage bed is undefiled. If your husband want you too play dress up after you all watch a porn movie, then I say go for it. Dress up and learn to enjoy it because it is what he wants and it makes him happy. Thats just my opinion.

Raymond
15th November 2011, 01:45 PM
I know if I watched porn my marriage bed would certainly be defiled. It wouldn't then just be my wife it would be her and all the other images that I had in my head. I think you are on the wrong track here Beenthere. Nohing justifies porn in a marriage.

1aokgal
15th November 2011, 06:50 PM
beenthere...

A guy who can't get it up in his marriage without dragging porn films into the marriage bedroom has a problem. Likely that will get raunchier and raunchier as he desensitizes to his wife and gets more porn images in his head. Most decent women don't like such images or "play" films.

The husband dress up after porn films? Sounds like a man would be a wackjob to me to "dress up" in female clothes or drag to parade around. I once had a client who did this in his marriage and it cost him the marriage after she became disturbed that he relied more and more on fantasy.

Disturbing thought here, that a marriage and sex can't be exciting enough between people who enjoy each other, and who don't get bored with the activity. That activity can be varied without incorporating porn and bi-sexual components. Next would be other weird activities. Beenthere, that is not inventive it is pushing the borders of normal behavior.

beenthere
16th November 2011, 07:17 AM
1aokgal,
I was not talking about a man that need porn to get it up. Yes, that will definitely be another issue. I am saying if you have a husband that watch porn , it is not so bad to incorporate that into your sex life. If you would still have images of the other women then that would not be for you and your wife. I am not saying watching it all the time either, I am just a believer that it is okay to be adventurous in the bedroom. Marriage is forever and sex between man and wife should be fun and remember what might work for one couple might not work for others. Oh, and I never meant anything about bi-sexual activities. I must have been misunderstood. I am speaking of a husband and his wife and whatever works for them in the bedroom without adding other people, let it be. Who are we to judge. But, i do say if the porn is destroying the marriage and home, let it go.

beenthere
16th November 2011, 07:23 AM
well Raymond,
that how you feel and these are just our opinions. But, the bible do not speak about porn in the bedroom between husband and wife. If you could not watch porn with your wife without thinking of the women you see then that is you. But, I am speaking from experience and and every blue moon my husband and I will put on a disc and in all actuality, we don't even really be watching it, it is just playing in the background. So once again, what works for one couple may not work for another.

beenthere
16th November 2011, 07:42 AM
1oakgal,
I apologize if you were offended, but your statement about most descent women dont like such images or "play" film was offensive. My husband knows he has a descent wife, but in the bedroom neither him or me is interested in decency. And I am a very descent woman and as long as my husband and I respect each other in and out the bedroom, we are good. Oh, and I love the Lord with all my heart. An addiction to porn is another story.

Raymond
16th November 2011, 09:45 AM
I think you are on the wrong track here Beenthere. Jesus said that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I'm all for adventure in the bedroom but that shouldn't include porn in my opinion. My eyes and my drive should be towards my wife not on images of other naked women doing things with men. I really don't see how you can justify the porn industry and the detrimental affect it is having on marriages. You may be alright with it but for most men it has a detrimental affect. I think you are playing with fire exposing your husband to such things.

1aokgal
17th November 2011, 12:26 AM
beenthere...

No apology needed, thanks. Offended? No, I am an adult who has heard it all!

Different strokes for different folks but that "playing with fire" porn stuff in the background, sounds pretty raunchy activity to me! Maybe you would buy the Brooklyn Bridge if your man is selling it? Sounds like you bought a bill of goods from him to talk you into that one! Is he bored in your company so he needs extra stimulation of other nude bodies? I wouldn't go along with that plan, nor would most decent women be interested to be having a sex experience with three or more in a bedroom, even when the extra women are images on a porn video. What could you be thinking? What you have accepted in your bedroom now may cause you to regret in the future.

Perhaps the book, "Kama Sutra" has enough ideas or moves for most couples. That can get rather adventurous with variety. Sounds like Raymond has enough variety in his repertoire not to include porn or such deversions. The porn may be used to replace when something seems needed as when there may be a lack of imagination or poor material to work with, in the first place.

A decent woman is defined as:
1. Characterized by conformity to recognized standards of propriety or morality.
2. Free from indelicacy; modest.

HMMM..not sure we agree if your take on decent fits these definitions.

beenthere
17th November 2011, 06:42 AM
Well Raymond,
You can say I am on the wrong track and i can say the same about you. However I will not debate this. Everyone interpret the bible and scriptures different. So, your opinion is just that and mine is just that. I will not say you are wrong because that is your opinion and that is how you interpret that scripture. Again, I am not talking about someone having a porn addiction or even looking at porn everytime they want to get intimate. I am not talking about a couple using it where it is detrimental to their marriage. And I am not playing with fire, my husband and i went to a store where we can get fun things and we both picked out a dvd. So, I guess you can say we both played with fire and enjoyed it. That has not affected my family or married life and I am still a God fearing Christian. Now, again, what works for you and your marriage works for you, I will not judge you but thank you for your comment.

beenthere
17th November 2011, 07:03 AM
1aokgal,
For you to be so disrespectful and say the things you said in your posting does not seem to me that you know what a descent woman is also. I will not debate with you nor Raymond, obviously if you two are married you have your ways of keeping things fresh in the bedroom and I have mine. I am very confident in who I am and what my husband see me as, so whether my husband look at a woman on the street or on TV does not define me or our marriage. Because he makes me feel like I am the most beautiful woman in the world and he treats me as such. And whether the ideas that one may get for intimate moments come from a book or movie, who's to say which one is wrong. If you prefer a book, then that is great and I'm glad for you. But one thing you should never do is throw darts at someone because they do things differently than you do. And you threw some darts in your last post. And, my husband didn't and don't have to talk me into anything when it come to the bedroom or out of the bedroom. We both enjoy pleasing each other, and you will never hear any complaints where that is concerned. We have satisfied each other for over 25 years and still going strong.I have not regretted anything that we have done in the bedroom that have been between ME and HIM. Sorry Sasha this was suppose to be about you but i guess others didn't like my advice, so I say if your husband have a problem with porn go get help together if you want the marriage to work. Good luck Sasha and remember people opinions are just that opinions, at the end of the day it is just you and your husband and what you find to work for your marriage, let it work. Pray and let God be your judge

beenthere
17th November 2011, 07:35 AM
Sasha,
I apologize for my previous postings,I got side tracked. They were not meant for you. However, just know that God is bigger than any circumstance. There is nothing too hard for God. He made your husband, so it is God that can fix him. If you want the marriage to work I will say just keep the faith and know that the same God that created this world with 1 word, Let, he is the same God that created you and your husband. God honors marriage and just continue to have faith in God. And if your husband is an unbeliever and he wants to leave the bible say let him go, And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. Roman 8:28. I will keep you in my prayers and you already have the victory, so now you just have to praise him for it.

Raymond
17th November 2011, 09:36 AM
Well Raymond,
You can say I am on the wrong track and i can say the same about you. However I will not debate this. Everyone interpret the bible and scriptures different. So, your opinion is just that and mine is just that. I will not say you are wrong because that is your opinion and that is how you interpret that scripture. Again, I am not talking about someone having a porn addiction or even looking at porn everytime they want to get intimate. I am not talking about a couple using it where it is detrimental to their marriage. And I am not playing with fire, my husband and i went to a store where we can get fun things and we both picked out a dvd. So, I guess you can say we both played with fire and enjoyed it. That has not affected my family or married life and I am still a God fearing Christian. Now, again, what works for you and your marriage works for you, I will not judge you but thank you for your comment.

I can't believe what you are saying as a christian and how you have recommended that Baroness watched porn with her husband. I think that is dangerous stuff and can break marriages instead of mending them. You obviously do not understand that and how a man must keep his eyes clean for his wife. I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land quite frankly. Either that or you are in some kind of deception.

1aokgal
17th November 2011, 06:47 PM
beenthere..

Your purchase of sex goods for use in your bedroom is income to support a 13 billion dollar a year sex industry. This money funds prostitution, sex trafficing, drug importation, child pornography, and sex clubs all of which undermines our society. That sex film industry was recently shut down by the health dept because of HIV infected performers who have an average of 7/10 sex partners a day during the filming in the adult industry. Condoms are not used in the making of these films.

You should use your common sense to realize that a man who relies on such stimulus has tastes that may not include you in future. The stories of marriages that folded over raunchy entertainment is legion. A bedroom that includes pornographical images is not God sanctioned by any stretch of definition.

Chamomile
17th November 2011, 07:21 PM
beenthere..

Your purchase of sex goods for use in your bedroom is income to support a 13 billion dollar a year sex industry. This money funds prostitution, trafficing, promotes drugs, child pronography, and sex clubs all of which undermines our society. That sex film industry was recently shut down by the health dept because of HIV infected performers who have an average of 7/10 sex partners a day during the filming in the adult industry. Condoms are not used in the making of these films.

You should use your common sense to realize that a man who relies on such stimulus has tastes that may not include you in future. The stories of marriages that folded over raunchy entertainment is legion. A bedroom that includes pornographical images is not God sanctioned by any stretch of definition.

Hi

I'm not a moralist preaching against the evil of porn over a public site but I would have to agree with Raymond and 1aokgal, that there is this seedy, irresponsible & dark reality of porn industry.

I was quite shocked by the double standard shown by this poster..she was highly dismissive of Baroness in other thread and over this thread, she advocates porn to be shared within marriage. It's hard to believe those posts are written by the same poster? :confused:

Raymond
17th November 2011, 07:36 PM
Thank you 1okgal for your info. I didn't know all of that. What you said is very informative.

I am counselling a woman, not on this site, who's husband uses it blatantly with no repentance and prefers it to her. It appears it is heading for divorce, a common pattern where porn is involved.

I am shocked too Chamomile. Mainly because she recommends it as a christian to others which is far more dangerous than if she wasn't a christian in my view.

1aokgal
17th November 2011, 09:07 PM
The thread with Baroness is very sad. She is in an unenviable position because a man who is not a husband has no legal responsibility to provide shelter or sustenance to a woman not his wife. Hopefully, she has relatives who will help her. She receives a governement check which is figured at 80% of her needs, which she mentioned. She pays for THEIR groceries now, so the taxpayers provide some support for that live-in arrangement.

If this man was going to marry her, he would have done so years ago. Yet that lady needs no moral judgment at this point. A man can entice a woman with the promise of marriage into such a situation. It is a lose-lose move for the women involved. beenthere made harsh judgments out of place for that situation as Baroness has ill health, no job and no prospects. It seems obvious the man desires her out. Baroness doesn't need judgmental calls, she needs encouragement and belief she will be okay if she can manage to go to her own family. She would be better off to put her life beside a man who shares her beliefs.

beenthere talks a good story about her Christian faith yet she endorsed porn usage on this site. Pornography is not compatible
with a Christian lifestyle by any stretch of imagination.
Raymond, you are priceless!

beenthere
18th November 2011, 01:37 AM
I can't believe what you are saying as a christian and how you have recommended that Baroness watched porn with her husband. I think that is dangerous stuff and can break marriages instead of mending them. You obviously do not understand that and how a man must keep his eyes clean for his wife. I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land quite frankly. Either that or you are in some kind of deception.


Okay I have nothing more to say to you. Just because we dont agree doesnt mean you are right and vice verse. Yes, i am a christian ans if you have to protect your eyes because you cant handle your lusty feeling that is you. i will not say you are living in cloud cuckoo, but I will say God has not convicted me in whatever I have done with my husband in the bedroom and I'm sure not going to listen to you try to convict and my marriage which is that great. Yes, we have flawsand have been through some things but with God being our center focus and foundation it is a marriage God has called it to be a great union between my husband and I. Also, i thought Baroness was married and did not quite comprehend that particular post and I guess you didnt understand my posting. If PORN is a PROBLEM for any married couple then stay away and dont convict the couple that enjoy it every once on a while. If porn break up a marriage there is deeper issued. BUT again, my husband and I have no problems watching a DVD every blue mean (which we really dont watch) and after 20+ years like I said before, we are still going strong and dont have to depend on porn. You know Raymond, have you ever read a book that was sexual, or watched sexual scenes on TV, do you hold your head down when a pretty woman walk past with one of those short skirts and boobs out? Do you even watch TV, because everything is sexual. I hope these things doesn't cause you to lust and dirty your eyes. Also, what you call porn may not be what i call porn. Everyone interpretation is different and Raymond good luck in your life and I am glad your eyes are clean. You are probably a perfect person. Everyone here me, If porn is an issue in your marriage and causing conflict get help. I am not living in deception because I believe my father in heaven is not a deceiver.

beenthere
18th November 2011, 02:07 AM
The thread with Baroness is very sad. She is in an unenviable position because a man who is not a husband has no legal responsibility to provide shelter or sustenance to a woman not his wife. Hopefully, she has relatives who will help her. She receives a governement check which is figured at 80% of her needs, which she mentioned. She pays for THEIR groceries now, so the taxpayers provide some support for that live-in arrangement.

If this man was going to marry her, he would have done so years ago. Yet that lady needs no moral judgment at this point. A man can entice a woman with the promise of marriage into such a situation. It is a lose-lose move for the women involved. beenthere made harsh judgments out of place for that situation as Baroness has ill health, no job and no prospects. It seems obvious the man desires her out. Baroness doesn't need judgmental calls, she needs encouragement and belief she will be okay if she can manage to go to her own family. She would be better off to put her life beside a man who shares her beliefs.

beenthere talks a good story about her Christian faith yet she endorsed porn usage on this site. Pornography is not compatible
with a Christian lifestyle by any stretch of imagination.
Raymond, you are priceless!

1okgal,
I dont talk a good story of a christian life, I live it and as i said to Raymond, what you feel is porn may not be what I feel is porn. However i will not justify what I do and my relationship with Christ with people who enjoy dissecting whether or not a person is a christian or not. I understand what Baroness is saying and going through because I went throught it with my sister. However, what i do in my bedroom with me and my husband is between God, him and me and God has not convicted me. Maybe you and Raymond is so focused on the porn and heck, their is porn on our daily Tv, in cartoons etc. But, please keep your focus off me and try to help those on here that is searching for advice and opinions. Which you both should know what they say about opinions. Find someone else to condemn and go back and read all your post. God bless and pray for me ;)

beenthere
18th November 2011, 02:14 AM
beenthere..

Your purchase of sex goods for use in your bedroom is income to support a 13 billion dollar a year sex industry. This money funds prostitution, sex trafficing, drug importation, child pornography, and sex clubs all of which undermines our society. That sex film industry was recently shut down by the health dept because of HIV infected performers who have an average of 7/10 sex partners a day during the filming in the adult industry. Condoms are not used in the making of these films.

You should use your common sense to realize that a man who relies on such stimulus has tastes that may not include you in future. The stories of marriages that folded over raunchy entertainment is legion. A bedroom that includes pornographical images is not God sanctioned by any stretch of definition.

Look, you just make sure you dont purchase any sex good and dont focus on what I do try to help Baroness. Matter a fact stop talking about it and pray about it. :)

1aokgal
18th November 2011, 04:48 AM
beenthere..

You said your porn was between you, your husband and God. When you posted it this Christian forum and espoused this to others you did not keep it between the three of you. You are deluded that such images don't harm a marriage.

Raymond is a good man of the world and has been here a long time. He deals with all these issues on a regular basis in his help for others, so he is no prig who keeps his eyes down or can't handle seeing a well built woman. I would guess he has been around the block a few times.

I don't think you are at all as you portray yourself to us, as your posts say otherwise. The pornographical materials are responsible for many divorces and destroys lives. Crime families thrive from the sale of such goods which support various illegal activiites and these film companies often use sex trafficed women as subjects in the films (as they are young.) These are the films you think so highly of in your bedroom.

You haven't an educated clue what harm is caused in our society by the porn industry.

Raymond
18th November 2011, 10:21 AM
Your posts do say otherwise Beenthere. What you say doesn't add up. I agree with what 1okgal says. I say keep your porn to yourself as what you say about it can be very damaging to marriages and could be the fuel a husband needs to indulge his lust.

beenthere
18th November 2011, 12:30 PM
beenthere..

You said your porn was between you, your husband and God. When you posted it this Christian forum and espoused this to others you did not keep it between the three of you. You are deluded that such images don't harm a marriage.

Raymond is a good man of the world and has been here a long time. He deals with all these issues on a regular basis in his help for others, so he is no prig who keeps his eyes down or can't handle seeing a well built woman. I would guess he has been around the block a few times.

I don't think you are at all as you portray yourself to us, as your posts say otherwise. The pornographical materials are responsible for many divorces and destroys lives. Crime families thrive from the sale of such goods which support various illegal activiites and these film companies often use sex trafficed women as subjects in the films (as they are young.) These are the films you think so highly of in your bedroom.

You haven't an educated clue what harm is caused in our society by the porn industry.
I meant what I do is between me, my husband and God, as far as those are the people who judgement I care about. Like I said what you call porn may not be what I call porn. It seems that you nor Raymond is good listener and is set on your views. I stand by what I said about what I do is between me, my husband and God. I stand by the fact that if a married couple wants to add spice in their bedroom that is their prerogative and I stand by the fact if porn or what you call porn disrupts a home stay away from it. I am sure that maybe porn along with other issues have caused divorce. i am just speaking about me and my family and experiences. I am not interested in all the history you feel you need to share with be about porn. Porn is not a concern of mine, nor my main focus. So, please try to help someone else on this forum because I stand by who I am and have no need to try to portray to be something else to people who say they are christians but yet continue to throw darts. You have basically said i was not a descent woman, you have attacked my marriage ( and dont even know me) you have suggested that I was uneducated, deluded and so on. Now that doesnt sound too christian like to me. Sin is sin whether it is porn or taring down your fellow brother/sister. I am glad I do not attend you or Raymonds church because it would seem to me that one with faults would be condemned and even if you dont understand or agree with my view, God said he draw with love and kindness and I have not heard any love or kindness from you nor Raymond regarding my posting. IIts one thong to disagree with someone ut to baasically disrespect them with subtle name calling is alittle personal. The descent thing to do would be instead of trying to make me see things you and Raymonds way is to pray for me if you feel you need to. So, if what I do in my home offend you I apologize for sharing it with you all, but, I can only speak on what works for me and my marriage. Thanks again for your comments and please focus on the initial forum and I will not justify or try to explain myself anymore. Too much have been said so now as far as this is concerned, since it bother you two, just pray. God is not threw with me yet as I am sure it is the same for you.

beenthere
18th November 2011, 12:52 PM
Your posts do say otherwise Beenthere. What you say doesn't add up. I agree with what 1okgal says. I say keep your porn to yourself as what you say about it can be very damaging to marriages and could be the fuel a husband needs to indulge his lust.

Raymond it may not add up to you and it doesnt have to ever add up to you, but this is a forum where many things are discussed and many people share their views and advice. I have stated what works for me and my marriage may not work for others. I am free to speak on anything I feel I have the desire to speak about as well as you do. if my post offend you then dont read it, skip it and go to the net one. I would hope we are all adults on this forum an noone will just take anyone advice without the spouses coming to a conclusion together about whatever it is they may feel will help there situation. it.s not all about the porn but you and 1okgal is so focused on that. Also, believe that what you say can be very damaging also. I am going to sincerely try to ignore you and your teammate 1okgal, because I see you two are easily to be lead off focus. There are things other than porn that have been discussed, fornication, adultery, etc. and you two are really stuck on this porn. Move on, and continue to try to help someone else.

Raymond
18th November 2011, 02:28 PM
I find what you say about porn very offensive. It is easy to look at porn. It's cheap instant and available but also corrupting. That you back it as a christian I find staggering. You make out there is something lacking in me because I speak against it as if I was a prig or something. I have never met a christian who speaks in that way so it does make me doubt your credentials. I speak to you as a sister. If you was an unbeliever I could expect it. Yes we all have our views but that is my view.

1okgal knows a lot about the porn industry and the evil behind it. A lot of the porn stars end up committing suicide. It is an abuse of the gift of sex and disregards marriage completely, stealing away those husbands who fall for it's temptations.

The only one I found that agrees with your views was on the Husband Doesn't Want Sex thread. This was towards the beginning of the thread. Her name was Susan Strict. Two of us thought she was a man. Afterwards I found out that she/he is running a massive porn empire on the internet, but on here she spoke about God and that it was alright to use porn. Hmmm.

beenthere
19th November 2011, 01:59 AM
I find what you say about porn very offensive. It is easy to look at porn. It's cheap instant and available but also corrupting. That you back it as a christian I find staggering. You make out there is something lacking in me because I speak against it as if I was a prig or something. I have never met a christian who speaks in that way so it does make me doubt your credentials. I speak to you as a sister. If you was an unbeliever I could expect it. Yes we all have our views but that is my view.

1okgal knows a lot about the porn industry and the evil behind it. A lot of the porn stars end up committing suicide. It is an abuse of the gift of sex and disregards marriage completely, stealing away those husbands who fall for it's temptations.

The only one I found that agrees with your views was on the Husband Doesn't Want Sex thread. This was towards the beginning of the thread. Her name was Susan Strict. Two of us thought she was a man. Afterwards I found out that she/he is running a massive porn empire on the internet, but on here she spoke about God and that it was alright to use porn. Hmmm.


Okay Raymond, i apologize I offended you. I am not interested in getting people to agree with me this is a forum where you can express your feeling and offer advice to others. Now, they do not have to take it. It seems that you are so focused on attacking me. Well, i just say this to you and anyone that is so concerned about what my husband and I do, I did not realize this was a forum that was so judgmental and i thank God that you and 1aokgal is not Jesus Christ, because many believers or unbelievers would not have a chance to make it to heaven. Forget about your view about what I do, but, I have let others read yours and 1okgal post and it seems to them that you all are so focused on the porn and not my soul. Like I stated before, if you feel my view is so wrong, what could you be saying to help me see what God has for me. I dont think of you as a prig but very judgmental and this is why people have the views about Christians they do. They say we are closed minded and judgmental. Again, forget the porn and how you feel, but if I was weak in the faith, you would have discouraged me about serving your God. Bot because you dont agree with my view but because you and 1aokgal has been very harsh and judgmental. I do not care how much 1aokgal knows about the porn industry, I am not interested n it like that. I was simply speaking of time with my husband. Not sitting up watching porn all the time, not even some of the time lusting after those images. It really hurts that as a sister in christ, i feel no love or kindness. Again, I'm sorry for offending you sincerely and let it go. PRAY for me if you feel the need to. Keep in mind, you draw people with love and kindness and if I have offended anyone I apologize but I thank God for my beautiful marriage and I thank God for surrounding me around christians that are concern about your soul and not you actions. Because as God work on your soul whatever is not right he will remove. God loves us unconditionally and He is our judge.

Raymond
20th November 2011, 11:54 PM
It is not just about you Been there. I've dealt with a lot of marriages which have been ruined through pornography. One just this week actually. What you are putting out about porn being alright can affect other marriages where there is mental adultery going on. There are hundreds of marriages where there is no sex because of pornography as the normal sexual drive has been diverted to it. If you wasn't a christian I would deal with it differently. We have a responsibility as christians in what we say. I am not interested in judging you as a person so don't take it personally.

1aokgal
21st November 2011, 03:51 AM
Raymond..

I know well a marriage that began with a love story, she, 18 and he was 23. They built a financial empire together with hard work and sacrifice and luck. Years later in their 40's he sold her a bill of goods to accept porn images in the bedroom to "spark it up." She would do anything for him. Then later it became a woman in the bedroom, so that is three. That woman remained in their marriage 25+ yrs as they
worked, vacationed, travelled and flew to wonderful spots together. He brought her into their office to work as he bought her a house nearby. He is a wealthy man with 3 children, who had to choke this down all these years. When he dies I am sure this OW will fight for part of the estate, though I am aware he has provided for her. I was very close to this situation, so knew about it, as most get the picture pretty fast. I just would never sit in a room when the OW was present. I seldom ever spoke to HIM, if I didn't have to.

His wife confided in me that she "no longer participated" after a few years, but knew the other two were an item. She would never divorce him. I think she felt the lifestyle choice would die a death of time and that never happened. The kids grew up to see this life as their mother was disrespected through the years. I saw the woman and she was nothing to write home about. It began with a marriage that had everything going for it and became a dirty secret. I saw close-up the harm as this wife was almost suicidal. He was a selfish pig that exercised his fantasy at the expense of his family. I am sure the family will have to fight her for a great deal of his estate when he dies.

It is true there are marriages where sex doesn't exist because it has been diverted to porn.
Porn is a "Pandoras' box" that opened can cause extreme damage. Once unclean elements enter a marriage it is impossible to close the door.

NOTE What a married couple does behind a closed door is private and a choice! BUT it hurts others, when others might be influenced by a woman who would tell others that is a reasonable thing to do.

What I find disturbing here, is that any proclaimed Christian woman would choose to endorse the practice of porn use on this site, and then "wiggle with persecution complex" when others point out that is hypocrisy. In case one wonders what is meant with that statement, it is this;
Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.
Hypocrisy is not simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches.

Raymond
21st November 2011, 11:40 AM
Thank you for that real story 1okgal. It fits the pattern again and again. Instead of confronting she allowed herself to be a doormat and paid a very heavy price.

I am talking to a woman whose husband came into marriage as a porn user and continued until he was discovered. The sex quickly wittled down to nothing because of it. None of the confrontations worked and did not produce any desired repentance. She is moving out today as it happens. To tell her to watch the porn with him would be an insult I would think. That is the thing that has killed the bedroom. Why should she go and make friends with it when it is up to him to keep himself pure for her? As you have inferred she would then be supporting the porn industry that lives off of unfaithfulness.

Once unclean elements enter a marriage it is impossible to close the door. I think you are right there 1okgal. This stuff seems to have a mind of it's own once it has been received into ones psyche.

1aokgal
21st November 2011, 05:18 PM
Dear Raymond...

The stories are all too real, that I saw first hand. The couple don't live close to me, but they are in my family so I follow the story. My mother when she was living, was devastated by this.

The other part of the story is that this industry funds crime with money laundering and other
elements in our society. Child trafficing and the sex trade often goes straight into films sold and collected for enormous amount of money. People have to realize what is being funded.

Raymond
21st November 2011, 08:00 PM
You've certainly burst the bag and deception about it 1okgal. Like all these things that can destroy they are packaged well and designed to entice. Thank you for the background knowledge.

chosen
21st November 2011, 08:21 PM
I have just read the last few posts, and I am absolutely amazed and appalled that a believer thinks that porn use is OK and that God would approve. Jesus clearly says that any man who looks at another women with lust has committed adultery of the heart. We are to be very careful what we allow oursleves to see, because the eyes are the windows of the heart.
Paul says in Phillipians "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Porn is the total opposite of these things, and we should never be looking at or thinking about porn images or films

The marriage bed is always defiled if anyone else is bought in, whether that be in person or on pictures or in films. Porn is evil, incredibly damaging, and causes untold misery, heartache, and the ending of marriages. I have believed for ages that it is one of satans favourite tools for distoring godly sex and healthy relationships between a man and his wife.

Been there, if your husband is a believer, I think that he needs to do some serious repenting and praying about this. It will damage his walk with God as it will yours as well. I have heard so many awful stories about people who have got into porn and their spouses and marriages, and, like you Raymond, I know marriages that have ended because of it. I know people who have prayed with and ministered to, people who have even needed deliverance after porn use. Dont go there, it will cause you nothing but hurt and damage in the long run.

To call a man a prig because he wont look at porn in obedience to God, and out of love and respect for his wife, is unbelievable. My husband will never look at porn, and will also close his eyes if anything slightly dodgy comes on the tv, and believe me he is anything but a prig.I love and respect him highly for his high moral values and his integrity.Like Raymond, he is a very godly man. There are plently of clean and good thinsg that can be done in the marriage bed, but bringing in others having sex or doing other sexual things isnt one of them. Its is an evil evil industry that has nothing good about it at all.

Also looking at porn can allow evil spirits to enter the person and spirits of lust can also enter. This is why most porn users have to watch more and more, and see more and more degrading images to get the same effect. Keep well away because it will effect you. We do reap what we sow in the end.

chosen
21st November 2011, 08:30 PM
Dear Raymond...

The stories are all too real, that I saw first hand. The couple don't live close to me, but they are in my family so I follow the story. My mother when she was living, was devastated by this.

The other part of the story is that this industry funds crime with money laundering and other
elements in our society. Child trafficing and the sex trade often goes straight into films sold and collected for enormous amount of money. People have to realize what is being funded.
My mother too Iaokgal. My dad looked at porn(magazines then) for years. I found his pile of mags when I was only about 10 or 11, and he went onto have affairs and eventually my mother got severely depressed and killed herself. Its all evil and corrupt and we need to keep well away, or we will get ensnared like a fly in a spiders web.Once that has happens Satan will just draw people in more and more. The Bible says that satan 'steals, kills and destroys', and he uses porn to do this very effectively.

1aokgal
22nd November 2011, 06:46 AM
Dear Chosen..

I knew this about your life from previous post. That is the saddest thing in the world to happen in your family and to you. It is a pain that goes on forever for the family left behind who blame themselves for not picking up clues. Who would know that could happen!

The family I talk about here is my older brother. I deeply love my sister-in-law, though she made terrible mistakes to allow him to lead her where it went. They are still together, all these years, and the OW is always in the background.

I told my sister-in-law to divorce him and clean him out of some of that wealth he accumulated, before she has to fight over it later. She worked with him and they made a fantastic life together that many might envy. They were able to help their children and live well. She loves him and won't leave him. He doesn't deserve her. My mother was disrespected when she visited there each time. He took the woman along when they all went to dinner or sat at his house. My mother was a guest there but should have taken a room at the hotel. My mother did not know how to handle this, so she suffered with it.

I told my mother she should have called a cab and taken a plane home. It is disgraceful conduct. My mother was crushed that her oldest son lives a vile life. He made a fortune with hard work and has 3 great kids with families of their own. They don't see much of him but visit their mother. It is true I have little to do with him except once when he was ill.

Porn destroys families, as you know, and many have discovered. It opens a door that steals innocense. The worst is that women would buy into the lie. It amazes me that beenthere said she wasn't interested in the true facts of the 13 billion dollar porn industry which destroys homes and our society.

chosen
22nd November 2011, 12:59 PM
I have no idea why your sister in law stays and put up with it. She must feel totally crushed and humiliated. I will never understand how women can love or stay with men who treat them in such a terrible way.

1aokgal
22nd November 2011, 04:50 PM
Chosen..

If I were this wife, I would despise him for exposing the children to his lifestyle. They are absolutely wonderful young adults with their own families. Only the daughter had early problems. His wife has been complicite in how they live, so who can explain that? I would never love a man so much I would leave my morality at the door! She is very humiliated and I do worry about her emotional well being. I shall never understand how that situation began or continues today.
The guy literally has two wives and I think it is over 25 years now. Sometimes true stories are stranger than fiction.

I felt very sad for my mother when she lived. He was very good to his mother to fly her down to Florida many times for luxery vacation where he lives. He drove up to visit her numerous times in a home here before her passing. He didn't bring the "friend" then. He can't know how hurt she was by his lifestyle though.
She lived with my stepsister for a time. My mother had been very proud of my brothers' accomplished, successful life before that began.
I have a very dysfunctional family, and thats' the truth. That is when you make your own world.

Raymond
23rd November 2011, 02:03 PM
Maybe she put the comfortable lifestyle first? It seems to be the pattern that you become a doormat if you do not stand up to adultery or affairs or even porn. Once you comply it seems to be a downward spiral.

chosen
23rd November 2011, 02:27 PM
yes Raymond I agree.Some things are far far more important than a luxury life style though arent they.
This verse comes to mind



<< Proverbs 17 >>


Better is a dry morsel and quietness with it
Than a house full of feasting with strife.

I have learnt that this is so true.

1aokgal
23rd November 2011, 05:31 PM
One never knows, but they built a substantial empire together so there is her desire to protect this for her children. She also didn't want to see her life work pass to this woman in "settlements." They are very wealthy in a city where ione can't live unless they have extreme wealth. They own a lavish home on a gated community island as well as numerous rented homes. There was a time I remember she did her laundry in the bathtub, while he invested. I think she thought it would just be over the lifestyle one day. He is 74 now. I am pretty sure that strange triangle is no longer about sex.

The last time I asked her was a few years ago, she said she just always loved him.

chosen
23rd November 2011, 07:50 PM
I would far rather loose a lavish lifesytle that loose my self respect, especially because wealth isnt important to me. The only reason that I would want lots of money is so that I can give lots of money. I love to give.
I would never stay with a man who was acting like that no matter what I would loose, after all, no one has to live in a very expensive or wealthy area, they can always move.
I think my mum stayed with my dad because she loved him also, and didnt want a divorce, but he too had her and his mistress for several years but at least he never flaunted the other lady and kept them entirely seperate. I will never ever understand why anyone would stay in such a situation, maybe people are afraid of change or the unknown so will put up with anything rather than stand up to it.
My mother had a really bad childhood, and spent most of it in an orphanage, so maybe she couldnt cope with more unheaval, but I will never know now.

Chamomile
23rd November 2011, 07:57 PM
I stand by what I said about what I do is between me, my husband and God. I stand by the fact that if a married couple wants to add spice in their bedroom that is their prerogative and I stand by the fact if porn or what you call porn disrupts a home stay away from it. I am sure that maybe porn along with other issues have caused divorce.

God said he draw with love and kindness and I have not heard any love or kindness from you nor Raymond regarding my posting.So, if what I do in my home offend you I apologize for sharing it with you all, but, I can only speak on what works for me and my marriage. Thanks again for your comments and please focus on the initial forum and I will not justify or try to explain myself anymore. Too much have been said so now as far as this is concerned, since it bother you two, just pray. God is not threw with me yet as I am sure it is the same for you.

Hi beenthere

I don't particularly have any issues in what you said. You only said that you were trying to accommodate your H who may entertain an images or two in that way. After all, you have had twenty years of marriage, you must be doing something right, yes?

There are quite a few discussions re. men's porn use and divorces not just over this site. I think what you are saying can be misconstrued as "wives should use porn in their marriage" that's why there were vocal disagreements. But from what I am listening, that's not what you were advocating. It's always useful to have a balanced view on these things rather than having some knee jerk reaction. Beenthere isn't running a porn ring. She's probably a well adjusted suburban wife who learned to be accommodating to her H's needs? I can understand that.

Maybe, your posts were misconstrued somewhat. Hope you wouldn't stop visiting this site. It's always nice to have new posters. If I didn't say earlier, welcome to this site :)

xx

chosen
23rd November 2011, 10:13 PM
So should we sin to accomodate our husbands 'needs'? Even if they are also sinning? I cant see that is what God wants for us, to have images/films of naked people doing sexual acts in our bedrooms. We are supposed to keep ourselves pure, and one thing that doesnt include is watching others in this way.

1aokgal
23rd November 2011, 11:36 PM
Chamomile..

Thanks for your level way to look at things as you are always concise. My take on this is pretty narrow in the use of porn as a marital additive. We can only give FB as we see it , but on this forum from a christian prospective, there really is only one way to see this subject by how we interpret the marital relationship and Gods' intent. I am not privy to Gods' intent but I think nowhere is the bedroom to contain more than the married couple. There can't be others included in the area. It is not a ball field with other players!

We don't want the poster, been there, to leave this site by any means. The problem is she advocated this for others. I think she makes not only a personal mistake, but she questions others who don't include films in their marital sex. I think she has been sold a bill of goods by someone she loves and trusts, her husband. Including sex videos in the bedroom has opened a terrible door and she is advocating that is acceptable for married couples. It is not OK for a Christian couple to consider this is a normal activity.

The problem is, that a wife can be frisky and accomadating...which is fine in a marriage, but there is also a line where it crosses the boundaries. The porn video in the bedroom enters another area of sexuality that is unnatural and threatens the sanctity of the marriage itself. The vision of other womens' nude bodies having active sex in a video is lewd and obscene. That does not add to the sexual union , but detracts from the marriage in intent between one man and one woman.
That is one issue.

The other issue, is the fact this purchase money flows into the coffers of organized crime which supports money laundering, prostitution, drugs trade, and often young sex trafficed victims are forced to perform in these productions. They are not there by choice. The production companies in this porn industry recently was shut down by the health dept. in Calif. while investigation tracked down multiple HIV exposed performers. One HIV positive male in the sex industry had exposed hundreds of women partners, as they film them with 7/10 partners in daily filming. Unsavory statistics but true.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/sexual-health-database-protects-porn-actors-privates-privacy/story?id=14203907

A woman who loves a man doesn't let that man lead her into acts that reduce the marital bed to a cat house. We understand the concept of sexuality as it applies to those who share a life in marriage. Unfortunately, this practice distorts that concept. My relative allowed her husband of 25 years to include such sexual paraphanalia between them. Later, it also included another woman into the bedroom. That was a 25 year duration triangle spoken of here.

Forgive me for being redundant here. This subject is too vital to leave it just as a matter of opinion. I must put forth the effort that all here be aware of the ramifications of this terrible choice. My apology to beenthere, for I have no personal axe to grind, but want to let her know the slope is slippery and the fall tragic on such a path. Thank you, Raymond, from your post from the male point of view as this isn't about being narrow minded or frigid, it is about the danger to ones' immortal soul. Chosen, you have the picture and we appreciate your opinion of this subject and supporting biblical texts.

As to how beenthere sees this, what she does in privacy she chooses. But, here, there is a responsibility that we share to help others not make mistakes they forever regret. She said she has no interest in the data concerning the harm done by this 13 billion dollar sex empire. There is also the fact these performers perform often unnatural acts and expose indecent behavior in these videos into a Christian bedroom. I question why that is not relavent to consider this unhealthy behavior? Others should think carefully, if this is what they want in their relationship. Maybe a taste for such activity, by a man or a woman, changes that person and they begin to question whether a marriage should be monogomaous or anything goes. What do others think about this subject?

chosen
24th November 2011, 10:53 AM
It depends on how 'accomodating' that we should be with a spouse. I am happy to do most things with my husband but if he were to ask for something that wasnt right, such as porn, then I would say no. Just as I would say no if another person was included. To me, watching naked people on porn isnt that far removed from the real thing. Just because we today can bring in other people to our bedrooms via films etc doesnt make it less serious in my view.

I do think that there are some things that we do need to speak up about, and that we should never compromise about, and this is one of them. Porn use is always negative and harmful in the end. Its evil in every way and benefits no body.I heard recently that a very large percentage of women who act in porn movies were sexually abused as children. How tragic. They are damaged women causing more damage by what they do.

A marriage bed is for the man and wife, their focus needs to be 100% on each other, and other people in person or in films should never be part of their sex lives.

If we imagined Jesus sitting there in person(and of course He is there)would we still think that porn was ok? Would we be happy to look at porn then? We need to remeber that He IS always with us, even when we have sex, and that He sees everything. This is why porn use is so damaging for the one watching it, because The Holy Spirit will withdraw and wont look at it. It will deeply affect the one watching it and their relationship with God, and the longer it goes on the more distant the porn user will get from God. Its tragic and please dont anyone get into it.

Chamomile
24th November 2011, 11:10 AM
beenthere had no interest in the data concerning the harm done by this 13 billion dollar sex empire. There is also the fact these performers perform often unnatural acts and expose indecent behavior in these videos into a Christian bedroom. I question why that is not relavent to consider this unhealthy behavior? Others should think carefully if this is what they want in their relationship. Maybe a taste for such activity, by a man or a woman, changes that person and they begin to question whether a marriage should be monogomaous or anything goes. What do others think about this subject?

Hi 1aokgal

Yes, I quite understand where you're coming from.

But I quite understand where beenthere is coming from as well. If she's trying to accommodate her H that way occasionally, to maintain marital bliss, then I find this to be perfectly OK. "After 20 years of marriage" she says. That explains her situation clearly. They must be doing OK and if that helps avoid a divorce etc?

Sometimes, we unintentionally shoot down newcomers too soon and I'm just saying we might want to welcome new peeps.

No offense to you xx

Chamomile
24th November 2011, 11:25 AM
Hi Chosen

Have you read US Pastor's book called "Laugh your way to a better marriage" bu Mark Gungor? He does mention about Porno. If he was lecturing in UK, I'd sure visit his workshop!!

I hear you. I do know what you're saying :)

This lady is obviously in a situation where her H entertains Porn and she's trying to keep her marriage with this H in a more dignified way. I personally think she's making her own compromise for the sake of marital accord more than anything else. Perhaps, we could have broached the subject with the newcomer in a more compassionate way. After all, if she was a Christian, then we are all here to learn and gain insight as we are?

Hugs xx

Raymond
24th November 2011, 02:19 PM
I won't say anything here. 1okgal and Chosen have said it all for me brilliantly.

I do know that there are thousands of christian males in this country who are having counselling and deliverance in trying to free themselves of this stuff, as it can be addictive. I think in a very real way these women are coming into the bedroom through a sexual gateway.

I don't think Beenthere is evil just naive.

1aokgal
24th November 2011, 04:41 PM
Hi Raymond and Chamomile..

Beenthere is making a compromise to please her husband. So did my sister-in-law and then it was mags, pharaphenalia, and videos. The taste can accelerate as the desire for porn increases and normal sexuality is desensitized. That is the problem.

I just hope others here, and she, will review the data and the intent of the postings to rethink this position. Obviously, after 20+ years she has a marriage that has endured. I hope she accepts that we do not judge her personally. It is my hope all the facts are known on this subject. Porn is not a condom regulated industry so the performers must now submit to monthly tests for sexually transmitted diseases. Do we want them in our bedroom to perform?
Chamomile, your point is well taken that we want to be cordial to a poster. xoox
1AOKGAL

Chamomile
25th November 2011, 11:02 AM
Hi aokgal xx

I hear you :)

Hope this lady will return sometimes. We all make mistakes xxx

1aokgal
25th November 2011, 05:51 PM
Hi Chamomile..

I would feel so badly if benthere thinks I don't admire her long term Christian marriage and her devotion to her husband to be a sexy woman and keep the romance intact. Aren't we, here, all about making the home and marriage the focal point in our lives as we try to keep balance about all the other responsibilities placed upon us?

Those of us who have been here awhile realize there will be differences of opinion, as we are from different countries with different culteral norms/practices, but we do share a focal point in faith. It is in that faith and how we apply it to our lives, that we are mostly on the same path, right? It is true that what drew us to this place may have been a search for understanding and help to overcome some personal problems. Maybe most of us stay for the community and to extend help to others.

I admire a few here who showed extreme persistence to deal with some painful situation in their marriage and I learn from them. I also feel a deep connection to a few of you here. Thanks so much for your friendship. I gained enormously from your help and understanding. I would say it is a good thing to feel richer for your input.

I hope beenthere will rethink the position we differed about. I pray her marriage will be a joy for her.

Here in America, today is the day after our celebration of Thanksgiving. It was a wonderful day of food and family with my roast turkeyw/dressing, followed by Pumpkin pie and my daughters' quite fabulous Pumpkin Cheesecake. It couldn't be better. She is quite the baker and they were here. We got a lot accomplished, as my grandaugher and I spent some time at the piano. She picks up quickly so a few hours later she is picking out the tune. Meantime my daughter and husband did cleanup kitchen time. She even stayed to organize one cabinet there, as she is an OCD person. Everything hit the trash can without a current expiration date! I loved that help.

You, in UK/other places, don't know what you missed! Of course, you also don't have a scale that shows a two pound gain either. :-(
I realize at times I, personally, might lack some tact/diplomacy in my posting, but it has never been my intent to hurt another.
So I hope our posters will accept the viewpoints shared here and not feel this community is hostile.
America today is full of crazy shoppers out there searching for the perfect gifts for others for Christmas. The most perfect gift we can give each other here is acceptance.
Thanks for your feedback..as always accepted in spirit in which it is offered.
1AOKGAL

Chamomile
30th November 2011, 11:12 AM
Hi Chamomile..

I would feel so badly if benthere thinks I don't admire her long term Christian marriage and her devotion to her husband to be a sexy woman and keep the romance intact. Aren't we, here, all about making the home and marriage the focal point in our lives as we try to keep balance about all the other responsibilities placed upon us?

Those of us who have been here awhile realize there will be differences of opinion, as we are from different countries with different culteral norms/practices, but we do share a focal point in faith. It is in that faith and how we apply it to our lives, that we are mostly on the same path, right? It is true that what drew us to this place may have been a search for understanding and help to overcome some personal problems. Maybe most of us stay for the community and to extend help to others.

I admire a few here who showed extreme persistence to deal with some painful situation in their marriage and I learn from them. I also feel a deep connection to a few of you here. Thanks so much for your friendship. I gained enormously from your help and understanding. I would say it is a good thing to feel richer for your input.

I hope beenthere will rethink the position we differed about. I pray her marriage will be a joy for her.

Here in America, today is the day after our celebration of Thanksgiving. It was a wonderful day of food and family with my roast turkeyw/dressing, followed by Pumpkin pie and my daughters' quite fabulous Pumpkin Cheesecake. It couldn't be better. She is quite the baker and they were here. We got a lot accomplished, as my grandaugher and I spent some time at the piano. She picks up quickly so a few hours later she is picking out the tune. Meantime my daughter and husband did cleanup kitchen time. She even stayed to organize one cabinet there, as she is an OCD person. Everything hit the trash can without a current expiration date! I loved that help.

You, in UK/other places, don't know what you missed! Of course, you also don't have a scale that shows a two pound gain either. :-(
I realize at times I, personally, might lack some tact/diplomacy in my posting, but it has never been my intent to hurt another.
So I hope our posters will accept the viewpoints shared here and not feel this community is hostile.
America today is full of crazy shoppers out there searching for the perfect gifts for others for Christmas. The most perfect gift we can give each other here is acceptance.
Thanks for your feedback..as always accepted in spirit in which it is offered.
1AOKGAL

Dearest 1aokgal xx

Sorry I didn't see your post sooner. You're such a sweet person xoxoxox I was put off by the troll post earlier;) Apologies for delays in replying.

Yes, Thanksgiving can be a curse when it comes to some weight gain. :p I know what you mean by gorgeous home made pumpkin pie/cheese cake etc. They are quite nice as they are not too sweet.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of OCD. My H tells me it's my OCD when I need to leave my wheelie bin in a precise manner :o

I'm sure beenthere will return when she feels like it. Hope so :)

Hugs xxxx

1aokgal
30th November 2011, 06:33 PM
Chamomile...

I hope she returns as well. beenthere should share her other ideas as to how her marriage has lasted so many years. We all want to be a community here, though we sometimes differ sharply. Nobody wants to hurt anothers' feelings or act like we are superior people who know it all. :-(

You are such a neat person, Chamomile. How I would love a trip to London with you to go to tea! I bought some beautiful dishes last month that I admired for about five years. That wonderful Ebay had a good buy on service for four.

If you were here in US, you would always have an invite to test them out with goodies and tea! Have a great day. :-)

George
19th December 2011, 05:47 PM
Let me say first, that I agree 100% about the evil effect of porn and that it has no place in a marriage, especially a Christian marriage. The reasons given I wholeheartedly agree with and have been eloquently put. However this thread raises another interesting point for me with regard to a wife being "accommodating" to her husband in the bedroom.

I wasn't aware from a Christian point of view that any person should be accommodating - don't you need to be your own person and not be talked into things you wouldn't have thought of and wouldn't have dreamt of doing ?

My wife, who is a Christian, was clear from the start. No contraception, no intercourse unless for the purposes of procreation (marriage not consummated for 5 years, after that we have had relations half a dozen times or so over a further14 years and have 2 children), no kissing, no lights on to avoid revealing any flesh, no oral sex etc.. etc.. She is happy to use her hands to caress though, although I am not allowed to reciprocate.

Are all these restrictions a passion killer ? Does it leave me feeling somewhat lonely in the marriage? Absolutely, however as a Christian man, am I allowed to ask her to be "accommodating" and suggest we spice things up by leaving the lights on for example, or even blatantly just leave them on ? Isn't that just selfish, disregarding and disrespecting the other person ? I know that if I did that and she said yes, I really wouldn't want to do it anyway, because I would know she didn't really want to and was just being accommodating.

So it seems to me that if you're not both on the same page immediately and instinctively, then there is no place for being "accommodating".

chosen
19th December 2011, 06:06 PM
george. goodness your wife sounds incredibly sexually repressed. God made sex for our enjoyment within marriage and it should be a time of great loving and giving and enjoyment for both spouses. Did you know that she felt this way before you married her? Has she read song of songs, which is very erotic and is a great teaching on sex between 2 people?
Hasnt she read the part when the Bible tells us that we must not deprive each other of sex?Are you saying that you have only had sex a few times in 19 years?

My guess is that she is Catholic, and that she has also been taught that sex is dirty and wrong except for having children. How very sad and how much you are both missing. Have you ever told her how sad this all makes you feel?

George
19th December 2011, 06:52 PM
george. goodness your wife sounds incredibly sexually repressed. God made sex for our enjoyment within marriage and it should be a time of great loving and giving and enjoyment for both spouses. Did you know that she felt this way before you married her? Has she read song of songs, which is very erotic and is a great teaching on sex between 2 people?
Hasnt she read the part when the Bible tells us that we must not deprive each other of sex?Are you saying that you have only had sex a few times in 19 years?

My guess is that she is Catholic, and that she has also been taught that sex is dirty and wrong except for having children. How very sad and how much you are both missing. Have you ever told her how sad this all makes you feel?

Hello Chosen. Yes, we've only had sex a few times over 19 years in order to have children. My wife became pregnant quickly both times,so there was no need to do it more often. In fact she isn't Catholic, although her parents were both ministers in a Protestant church, which I'm sure led to her views on many things, and she is a good Christian woman. I don't know if she's read the Song of Songs or not, although it's something I myself have not read. I did point out the passage in Corinthians to her this year as a matter of fact, as I found a translation of it on here from Raymond which I'd never seen before, but nothing has changed as a result. The original old fashioned translation - "let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence, and likewise the wife unto the husband" doesn't really get the message across. I never read any of that to mean anything to do with sex and I think she has the same opinion rather than taking on board any modern new-fangled translation.

I didn't know she felt this way before we were married, but I did know she was a devout Christian, which meant there was nothing physical going on at all before we were married.

After the initial shock on honeymoon, I'm not sure I would say the situation makes me feel "sad" - after all you don't really miss what you've never had do you ? But I do feel a lack of intimacy - we could be brother and sister really, which does make me feel lonely from time to time.

You haven't really answered my original question though about being "accommodating". This whole question is an interesting one for me. I don't "approach my wife for sex" - never really have done since the early weeks of the marriage - for the reason that that very step betrays the fact I have a desire, a need if you like and by definition, if she is going to satisfy that desire she is being accomodating. I feel that I shouldn't have that desire in the first place because it will put my wife in an awkward position (for her). I think this works the other way round too, if by some miracle she approached me for sex and I wasn't expecting it - which of course I wouldn't be - then if I agree to her approach I'm accommodating her aren't I? The scripture seems to support that you should be accommodating which I hadn't realised before, but then you have to ask where is the line drawn ? I would like the lights left on and to have a kiss - my wife doesn't want either, so I accommodate her otherwise aren't I being disrepectful and selfish ?

I know this all probably sounds unbelievably warped, but that's because it's all hypothetical to me.

chosen
19th December 2011, 08:30 PM
Its normal to have sexual desire George. Its normal for a husband and wife to enjoy each other in bed, and frequently.
Its nothing to do with being a Christian because God invented sex for marriage, and we are supposed to have sex with each other. I have been a Christian for 30 years and was bought up to go to church, but I dont feel that way at all, and the Bible never says that you can only have sex to have children, that is gross distortion of what sex is about. You seem to think that its normal or even 'right', for Christian women to think the same as your wife, but I can assure you that it isnt normal at all or right. Its a total distortion of Gods teaching on sex. i cant believe that you have just accepted this for so long. We are supposed to do what we can to plese out spouses in sex as in the rest of life. Men especially find it very hard to emotionally connect with their wives if there is no sex, hense the feeling of being like brother and sister.

I think that after all these years, you need to approach this from the viewpoint of communicating about this initially, maybe in counselling, and this may well open a can of worms, but unless you want things to stay the same then you will need to do it. This is NOT normal behaviour for a Christian couple.
Please do get a good modern translation of the Bible, not one where you cant even understand what it is saying. It may help for her to have some counselling from a mature Christian married lady in your church, who hopefully can correct her very distorted beliefs. I suspect she got this from her parents,who clearly felt the same, but people can change if they see the truth.

Forever
19th December 2011, 11:49 PM
Greetings George,

As far as being "accommodating" when it comes to sexual expression or desires, I would classify it much the same way as I would classify being "accommodating" to my spouse for his differences regarding food for instance. I am not going to dictate his particular times of hunger, nor his particular preferences...I am just going to make sure he gets what he wants even if I do not want the same thing for myself. Why? Because I love him and want his satisfaction. Otherwise I would be the selfish spouse. You are being starved on many different levels.

So you think you are being selfish for having desires that you wife does not have? How about she is being insensitive and selfish for knowing it about you and not giving in to your hearts desire from time to time? Why does everything have to be about her exclusively?

Part of sexual intimacy is exploring what the other person delights in and then be willing to provide it for them when they are interested in having it. This is no sin and should carry no stigma regardless of who initiates.

The fun thing about making love is that after one person takes the initiative, the other is then usually pulled or lured into that pleasure even if the idea does not originate from them at first. Why would someone want to label taking initiative for lovemaking in a negative light? That's like saying that if I sent out invitations for a dinner party, then I should suddenly feel guilty as if I should not have actually done that...even if my guest actually did show up. They are free to show up or to decline. They are "accommodating" to my invitation because they know that I am interested in sharing a great meal with them, and they are free to have fun or be bored.

We cant wait around for the one to have the same exact idea at the exact same time as the other...that is not reality.

Your wife is heavily oppressed...and lucky for her, you put up with it...and lucky for your children that she did not deny them the milk from her breast when they had need of it...it seems as if she has no interest in the needs of a man on the physical (sexual) level.

As for lights on or off, kissing or no kissing, oral or none...those are personal preferences and should be areas of negotiation...sometime you do it, other times not. How about using a soft candle instead of a light? How about you kissing her arms, legs, back and thighs instead of french kissing...how about she kisses your "member" instead of putting it in all the way into her mouth? There are compromises you know...and if she can be gracious enough to "accommodate" you with that, she may learn to enjoy it and who knows what else might develop over the course of time?

We all accommodate each other in various ways and for a variety of things...otherwise how can anyone be considered loving or giving or kind?

What is she so afraid of?

Raymond
20th December 2011, 02:23 PM
Very well put Forever.

Funny enough I was reading that passage this morning in 1 Cor 7. I looked up the original greek as well which says that the wife does not have authority/power over her body, her husband has. Also vice versa the wife has authority over her husband's body. That virtually says to me if they want it you have to give it. It rules out sexless marriages. It goes on to say do not deprive each other. The real desires should always be met.

Of course there is room for negotiation as Forever explained. There are some things that the other cannot face and one needs to be loving and not force things. My wife is not comfortable with oral as it happens. I don't force either way because basically she wants to meet my need and I wouldn't say that oral is a basic sexual dna need for me. If it was we would discuss it more but my leading is to drop it if she is not comfortable with it. There are plenty of other things she does and affirms that I would not discuss on here.

Basically sex is a gift from God to be enjoyed whether it is for procreation or not. Each couple are free to embark on that journey and explore the intimacy in ever greater freedom. I think your wife needs an awakening in that area George. If marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church surely it includes the one flesh joy and adventure of the marriage bed.

Forever
20th December 2011, 08:25 PM
George,

I have been thinking.:eek:

It appears to me that given your wife's upbringing, she probably has been "taught" that having sexual desire is tantamount to "LUSTING"...which is a sin. If I am correct, then she has this whole idea WAY WAY out of context.

For her to engage in sex, in her mind, there must be a "godly purpose"...so Creation would qualify and give her the "covering" for doing the "deed" in God's eyes.

Even during a qualified "sanctified" act, she still does not want to be guilty of evoking the sin of "lust"...hence the need for her to call so many shots and restrictions...so she does not "sin" or cause you to do so.

Someone ought to explain to her about a thing called "context". That is, lust (being a strong sexual desire) is NOT a sin in the context of being married as long as the "desire" is for the experience with one's spouse exclusively...ie not thinking on someone else, or being "primed" by something outside of the marriage.

The Bible clearly states that our sexual desires should be directed to our mates and enjoyed therein....whenever the one or the other wants to express it...that includes you.

Will she need to accommodate you...even if the idea did not originate with her...even if she does not "feel" like it? You bet. Would you accommodate her if she made an advance towards you...likely.:) Does the word "accommodate" taint the whole expression and ruin the enjoyment?
It would be ashamed if it does...that thought would be way out of context too if that were the case...don't buy into it. I often do not "feel" like cooking dinner after a day at work...but I do it anyway because I love my husband and want him to be well fed and pleased....and he is. That is love in action....should he turn down the wonderful meal I made for him just because he knows I really did not feel like making it? I hope not.

Our personal autonomy is never to be used to exclude the needs and desires of our spouse...otherwise, we have no business getting married.

We are here to serve one another....that is our "duty" (another word for you to contemplate)...especially regarding marital sex so that the Devil does not get a foothold for "lusting" after someone who is not our spouse.

You have been reduced to MB throughout the entire marriage. If, when doing that, you are thinking on some "hot babe"...you are lusting and sinning. But if you are doing MB while thinking about your wife and all the things you would like to do to her (and vice versa)...envisioning the two of you "that way" you are not sinning...you are simply fantasizing about what you and she are missing out on and finding a physical outlet for that unfortunate frustration.

chosen
20th December 2011, 08:46 PM
george
I have a great book called 'Intimaty ignited' by joseph and Linda Dillow and Dr Peter and Lorraine Pintus. Its basically a Christian book on sex in marriage going through the Song of Soloman verse by verse. There is also one for women, written by the two women above called 'Intimate issues'. There are Many good books on marriage such as 'His needs her needs' by Willard Harley which does says what things are important to both men and women in marriage, one of the main once for men being a good sex life. Another that may help your wife see how men tick is called 'for women only' by Shaunti feldhahn. She will need to you to tell her how unhappy you are about all this first, as if you have just accepted it all this time, it wont change overnight. Not many men would put up with not comsumating the marriage for 5 years, and not surprisingly!!!!!

After all these years it wont be easy to change things. Her very distorted views on sex are probably very deep seated and probably come from her own mothers distorted views.

One of the things that makes me so sad, is that so many Christians have the belief that sex is somehow dirty and that God leaves the room when we have sex!!!! This is changing however, and there are many good Christian books now on marriage and sex. My pastor did a talk on marriage recently, and how he knows so many marriages where there have been affairs, and he said it is so important to have lots of sex in marriage. I agree. One of the reasons that God gives for regular sex in marriage, is so the spouse who is being deprived wont be tempted to be unfaithful.

George
21st December 2011, 02:18 AM
Wow. I have to say I'm somewhat taken aback by the supportive comments and suggestions. Thank you Forever, Chosen and Raymond, your messages are warm and helpful.

Where to start? Well, what is my wife afraid of ? Perhaps I should, but I really don't know.
There are a couple of specific things she has definitely mentioned though :
1) no physical activity at all while the children are in the house - awake or not - as she's worried they will see or hear something. Of course the children are always in the house when we are, so this constraint stops anything happening, period !
2) the neighbours and noise - no noise to be made whatsoever in case we disturb the neighbours.

Other than that I think that a combination of a strong focus on living (her definition of) a Christian life, a general lack of interest, plus sex as lust being a sin, result in it not ever getting onto her priority list.

I suppose this does mean I am being "starved on many levels", although I haven't really felt it as strongly as that, despite feeling that intimacy is missing. I suppose falling into line with what she says and wants was, for me, a way of showing that I love her. Of course as you suspected, this has meant that mb has been the only physical way out for me and I have to admit that while most of the time I have thought of my wife at such times, it hasn't
always been the case.

Anyway Forever's comment "How about she is being insensitive and selfish for knowing it about you and not giving in to your hearts desire from time to time? Why does everything have to be about her exclusively?" blows my passive acceptance out of the water of course.

And again, when you also say "it seems as if she has no interest in the needs of a man on the physical (sexual) level", and considers sex "lustful" and a sin, I think that hits the nail on the head too.

A few months back, thanks to this site, I purchased the book "The Act of Marriage", a Christian book, I hope you agree. I left it on my bedside table without
commenting on it and read a few pages each night before going to sleep. A few days went by uneventfully - but with me at work during the day, and then one evening I was confronted by my wife who asked why I had such a pornographic book. She continued to call me a pervert (I'm not making this up) for possessing and reading such a thing, and leaving it where the children might see it as well. I protested that it was a Christian book, to no avail. I was flabbergasted, I removed the book, and nothing more was said. I should have told her I wasn't happy about this as Chosen suggests, but I didn't, mainly because I know from experience there is no point is debating things. Her word is final.

I think this event helps convey the fact that there aren't any "areas of negotiation" that I can enter into. All of Forever's suggestions are delightful, but a distant dream unlikely to become reality it seems to me. I have been blind to all this, but of course love is blind. I'm now beginning to wonder if she loves me, as another of Forever's comments has made a significant impression on me as well "We all accommodate each other in various ways and for a variety of things...otherwise how can anyone be considered loving or giving or kind?". I'm finding it difficult to find one thing in our married life where she "accommodates" me. Her priority is the children and the church. I come a lowly third, if that and even then I do all the food shopping, cooking and my own ironing, as well as being the one who has a full time job. I'm not complaining about that - I love cooking for example, it's just struck me that nothing gets done for me. I commented in jest last week that our two Guinea pigs are better looked after than me, but all of a sudden that rings true and isn't funny any more. I hope this is not the "can of worms" that Chosen refers to.

Forever, your second message, where you have been "thinking" :), really is excellent, thank you. I just love your statement, "Our personal autonomy is never to be used to exclude the needs and desires of our spouse...otherwise, we have no business getting married." So much food for thought.

For now, one final comment regarding "duty" and 1 Corinthians 7. I have now looked at quite a few translations, and to be frank many of them I do not find at all helpful. For example the New Internatonal Version and others has "The husband should fulfil his marital duty to his wife and likewise the wife to her husband". May be I'm just naive, but I always interpreted that to be a very wide command - along the lines of respecting and "accommodating" your spouse's wishes as in Forever's statement I quoted above . I had never read it to mean anything to do with sex. Somewhere else where I, or may be I should say both I and my wife have been going wrong.

Forever
21st December 2011, 03:16 AM
I seriously think that her reasons given in (#1 & #2) are straight up bovine skitology...designed to evoke irrational fears, rather than to address the fact that people manage to do it all around the world...even with neighbours and children in close proximity....they just have to wait till the kiddies are sleeping, and really, truth be told, the neighbours are not sitting in your living room are they?

Also, her distress about you reading that book and insisting that it is "perversion" is her way of making sure you do not delve further into the subject matter without feeling loads of guilt...because she does not want you to realize what you are missing, or God forbid, have any expectations of practicing some of those ideas in your own marital bed.

She is afraid...and will come up with anything she can to squelch lovemaking...because she thinks of it as sin outside of making babies. The whole thing is abhorrent to her.

As long as you appear to be satisfied living with the status quo, she will be satisfied not to have to accommodate your needs and desires, let alone exploring some of those wonderful things designed by God for her own pleasure too. The problem I see is her blind selfishness that has permeated areas of the entire relationship...starting with something so very basic and fundamental to a man's needs.

I am sure she does not mean to deprive you...but isn't that what you "signed up for" since she laid down the "law" from the very getgo? Trouble is people do change don't they? And you may well be changing because you feel the impact from the lack of physical intimacy over the years and the effects it is starting to have on you.

Sexually speaking, you are living under some strict Law (legalism) and maybe you are wondering what it is like to live under the joy of Grace?

chosen
21st December 2011, 04:36 AM
As forever says,(the same as I thought when I read your last post), the reasons that she gives are all just excuses. In her mind there will always be a reason not to have sex. If you had a weekend away together without the children, it would probably be the excuse of the people in the hotel room next to yours. If you rented a cottage miles from anyhwere, there would be another reason, like the risk of pregnancy. Even her refusal to use any sort of birth control will give her the excuse not to have sex. .
I do think that she should have told you before you married that she wasnt going to a)have sex for 5 years, and b)after that not unless she wanted a child, and c) wasnt going to use birth control. It wasnt right that she married you knowing what she felt but not telling you.
Her apparent distaste towards sex and aversion to sex seem very very deep. I can ony think that her mother drummed this into her while she was growing up because it is very strong. Basically she is in control, she says that you dont have sex, and that is that. She sees sex as dirty and to describe a Christian book on marriage and sex as pornographic is extreem to say the least. I have never known anyone with such Victorian ideas about sex.

This wont be easy George, her attitudes are intrenched and deep, but with Gods help things can change in time, if she is willing to think of you and your needs as well as everyone elses. According to the Bible, I would say that after God(and that doesnt include church activities) you should be first, then the childen, and then her church activities. Hasn't she read Ephesians? It says a lot about how wives are to treat their husband with respect and are to adapt themselves to him. The thing is that she is thinking that she is such a good Christian lady but is blantantly disobeying all of Gods instruction for wives.Her priorities are all wrong and upside down.

I do wonder if there is anyone at your church that you could go to about this? Is there a couple who you both know and trust there? Would she even speak about this with another perosn? Even if she wont go george, is there a mature Christisn guy who you can speak with and who you can pray with about this on a regular basis, because it isnt normal or right. The thing is that she is in total control at this time, and she wont like it if you rock the boat, so you will need to be patient and pray a lot and hopefully get godly support on this.

That verse is definetly talking about sex by the way, because it then says that if you have a period of prayer and abstinence you are to come back together quickly to avoid tempation. In the context of the passage, you can tell Paul means sex.

I would start by praying about it, telling God how you feel, go and see a mature godly man who you trust and go from there.

Raymond
21st December 2011, 09:54 AM
As for 1 Cor 7 George. The context of the verses from the start is sex. Starting at verse 1 that it is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless in order to avoid fornication (sex outside marriage) let every man have his own wife and vice versa.

It goes on to say the wife does not have power over her own body etc. Her body means her physical body and vice versa. In the context it has to mean sex. It goes on to say don't defraud one another unless it is with consent that you may give yourselves to prayer but make sure that you come back together (sex) so that Satan does not tempt you as has already been pointed out.

I think an opening is apparent when you mb thinking of other women sometimes. That door should be closed by enjoying one's normal marriage rights (yes sex not something else). Ask your pastors opinion of the verses. Don't just take what I say. I think you will find that most know exactly what is says.

Forever
21st December 2011, 09:59 AM
Okay George,

I have been thinking again.:eek:

Let's just say that you are ready for a long over due "awakening"...but your wife will never go "there" on her own accord or by being prompted by you...let alone anyone else.

You spend months (or years) getting educated on the ideals laid out before Christians about our sexuality as married couples and it is looking quite enticing...especially since God is the one giving us the green light...as opposed to what the "world" says....In other words, there are a few godly boundaries, but definately not the kind you are accustomed to having to live.

So far so good.

Then you realize that you have been "screwed" all these years...but not necessarily in the way that you preferred.

You realize further that your wife has had the utmost of control...outrageously so, and not by logical and reasonable interpretation from Scripture, by any stretch of the imagination...and certainly not by her acquiring good Christian counsel regarding this issue.

What then?

What are you willing to risk to straighten out this mess?...Your wife, your home...your children's stability...WHAT?

The problem I see here is that your "awakening" (apart from your wife's awakening), is going to result in a potential opening of Pandora's Box if you act apart from God.

We can sit here as arm chair counsel and tell you what is wrong...and be very much "on the money" in principle...but apart from God's intervention...you could destroy your marriage if you act out on your own accord. You did, after all, know the parameters that your wife had upon entering marriage...and it did seem to be reasonable at the time...or perhaps you just did not see long term problems with it and thought you could handle it...or perhaps you thought she would grow to see how "looney" and selfish her standards were...I don't know.

At any rate, you need much more than we (here) have to offer....and all the Christian books in the world wont help one nit apart from the next truth I say...

You need God, through His Holy Spirit, to convict your wife as you continue to communicate your needs and desires to her. Yes, you HAVE to tell her what your needs are...speaking kindly to her about it once a week or so, until the Lord (not your wife) tells you to "shut up" (so to speak)... and then leave it to the Lord to go to work on your behalf. She needs to hear from you c-l-e-a-r-l-y how important it is to intimacy in marriage as well as to your need for physical fulfillment...then God will take it from that point.

Otherwise, she will think you are perverted and tainted by the world and by the ideas derived by the "wicked" books you read...regardless of the truth of the Scriptures that you learned to confirm your case.

Sometimes, we are pretty much helpless to "fix" what is an obvious easy fix...but what is easy for us, is NOT so easy to those who are held in bondage...which is what has happened to your wife long ago.

I hope you are getting what I am trying to say. Is your temporal fulfillment really worth the destruction that can happen if you do not lean heavily on the leading of God in this issue?

I am not saying that this is something that should not change...it definitely is long overdue....and God would have you learn of it and then trust and depend upon Him for the fulfillment...but you must first be convinced that it is right and good and a gift from His hand.

I also know that this issue has empowered your wife to think that since she has controlled you on a very basic and fundamental level all these years...that she must have had it "right" since she has not met up with much of your own resistance (you were trying to be loving towards her by sacrificing yourself). But she is WRONG...and she is going to have to "meet up with God" if she does not learn to respect and love you along with all your needs and legitimate desires.

Nevertheless, you must proceed with caution since she cannot be won over by anything other than the Spirit of God working on your behalf...not by coercion, or logic or by any human reasoning or by strength or might or human power or sentiment. It is God who sees and understands where you are heading with this...and it is He who will rescue you (and her).

Raymond
21st December 2011, 02:08 PM
I would add prayer as well. Once you know your direction you can pray more specifically for a conviction to come. You are not the first with this problem. Many refusers have been awakened through prayer. The ones I know are really making up for lost time and seem more 100% than ordinary people now.

Chamomile
22nd December 2011, 01:55 PM
Nevertheless, you must proceed with caution since she cannot be won over by anything other than the Spirit of God working on your behalf...not by coercion, or logic or by any human reasoning or by strength or might or human power or sentiment. It is God who sees and understands where you are heading with this...and it is He who will rescue you (and her).

Hi

Excellent and compassionate posts for "George".
Regrettably, this would be a difficult one.

I've known a couple. Once upon a time, this H had his first W who was just like what George had described about his W. He and his former W were essentially incompatible as lovers and they got along well as a roommate over a number of years. It virtually took years for him to leave this first W because he felt obligated to stay in this highly damaging marriage. Yes, she accused him of being a "pervert" and all sorts of other things. Eventually, his former W had several affairs and that's when he finally decided to move on.

I'm not sure if G's W will always stay "oppressed" if she were with someone else whom she may have been more compatible "that way". You either fancy someone or you don't. No one can force a woman or a man to fall in love with someone.

It's not a very happy marriage if she loves a man like a roommate because he is an excellent provider and a nice Daddy for her children. I believe no one can try to force her to change and I wouldn't be shocked if she wasn't quite in love with G by judging from what G had described......His W quickly went so defensive about the "book", that goes to show she has no interest whatsoever.

Some people marry too young when they don't even know what love in marriage actually means, not that I am saying this is what George's marital issues would/or might be. A very tough one, I'm so sorry to say.

xx

George
5th February 2012, 02:16 PM
First I must apologise that it's taken me so long to come back to the board and reply.

Thank you to everyone who has replied, but especially to Forever. Forever you should go into counselling, because your advice is always good, but when you put your thinking cap on, you're brilliant and really hit the nail on the head! You've put things so beautifully and correctly in my eyes.

To you and Chosen, I totally agree that I cannot act apart from God, and the Holy Spirit needs to intervene as there is no way I can change any of this on my own.
So, I've been praying about the situation, although I have not attempted to broach the subject with my wife as yet, as again you are exactly right that she will not be convinced by logic, reasoning, coercion etc.. We will have to see where this goes.

Chosen, I can never completely be sure of course, but on reflection I don't think my wife knew before we were married that she wasn't going to have sex for 5 years until she wanted a baby and wasn't going to use birth control etc.. I certainly didn't as it was never discussed and as I mentioned before, there was nothing physical going on at all before marriage apart from may be holding hands. So, I believe she never even thought about these things, it just wasn't on her radar at all.

So once we married she was confronted with the situation, and took decisions then, almost on the spot, to introduce all the rules etc.. I think Forever is right that all of a sudden she saw the gates of hell opening to welcome her as the whole question of sex (sinful lust in her eyes) arose on honeymoon.

I'll be praying and I'll try to let you guys know if anything changes.

Shasha
6th February 2012, 08:00 AM
Dear all,
You may have probably wondered whatever happened to me, as I was the instigator of the thread, "Married and Lonely"
Well, first of all, to give you an update, my husband, D and I no longer are considering for a divorce.
Matter of fact, we had been in talking terms for some time and have reconciled our differences and are slowly trying to mend the relationship and marriage.
Thank God, He intervened as He has done and saved our marriage.
We had considered separation, but when I thought about our son, it broke my heart to have to do this to him.
As I had been praying for some time, the Lord showed us His way and that was, to salvage what we had together and to try to live together in peace and love for His sake and also for our family's sake.
Divorce seemed such an easy way out, but what saved our marriage was forgiveness. Yes, I sought forgiveness from him and vice versa (although D is very stubborn and finds it difficult to handle his emotions).
Anyway, my husband is not all there, yet and still has a long way to go and will never be the perfect husband.
We are now seeing a counselor to help us iron out our differences and we have been praying together, as a family.
We are on a long journey in trying to stick to God's ultimate plan for this family. As long as we have God on our side, I believe we will have a successful marriage.
I am still engaged in my counselling course and am learning a lot about myself and how I relate to others and problems in my life.
Thank you guys for your consistently good advice and prayers.
Shasha.

Raymond
6th February 2012, 11:58 AM
If you are praying together then there has to be hope as you are agreeing for God to help. . Couples who pray together stay together as they say.

Thanks for the update Shasha.

Raymond

Shasha
11th April 2012, 10:56 PM
If you are praying together then there has to be hope as you l are agreeing for God to help. . Couples who pray together stay together as they say.

Thanks for the update Shasha.

Raymond


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. You are so right! It literally means we are taking one baby-step at a time, one day at a time.
Take care
S

chosen
11th April 2012, 11:10 PM
Shasha
Thats fantastic news. Its lovely to hear that a marriage hgas been saved and that things are improving. They say that a marriage needs to be a three strand rope, the husband, the wife and God. God sometimes needs to be what holds the marriage together.
God bless you and your family.

Shasha
12th April 2012, 06:27 AM
Hallelujah! I realise all along it's not me, but Christ who lives in me. If it wasn't for the Lord, I would have gone a long time ago. But, praise God, I want this to be a success story, as marriages these days tend to go in one direction - separation. Selfishness, pride, bitterness, greed and unforgiveness play a major role in almost all marriage break up.

My big question is, "what would Jesus do?"

Would he run away from his problems or would he stay and try to work it out? Well, we've stayed and we're trying to work things out, against all attack from the enemy. He is the accuser of the brethren and is like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. He is out to kill, steal and destroy, but in the name of Jesus, we are more than conquerors through Christ, who loves us. He is our protector, our shield and it is His strength which keeps us going! Amen.

Raymond
12th April 2012, 01:07 PM
So things are getting better Sasha?

Shasha
13th April 2012, 06:36 AM
Hi Raymond,
The situation has not improved greatly, as my husband still tends to remain passive. However, what has changed tremendously, is my action or reaction to his behaviour and attitude and what is happening, generally in the home. I respect him and still love him. Intimacy-wise, there is a lot of work to be done.
As I have mentioned before, my h is a recluse and he tends to shut himself away in the bedroom, most of the time.
However he is beginning to join me and our son, occasionally in the living room. We keep the communication open and he is more willing to participate in family devotions and discussions.
On a whole, the atmosphere in the home is one of peace,than anything else and that's what's important in a marriage, I suppose.
Take care.
S

Raymond
13th April 2012, 08:33 AM
God seems to be doing a work in you Sasha.

Smith Wigglesworth shut his wife out all night once for going to church. In the morning she came in with a smile and asked him what he wanted for breakfast. The rest is history.

George
14th December 2012, 04:32 PM
Well, it's about a year now since you guys gave me all your helpful and supportive advice, so a quick update from me seems appropriate.

Sadly not much has changed (no sex at all this year), although the more I've resigned myself to the situation, I've found that I'm more at ease with it, even if I know it's still not ideal. We had our 20th anniversary this year and managed to get away for a few days without the children, the first time I can remember us doing that for the whole time we've been married. I didn't try anything on though as I didn't want to spoil it and not surprisingly she didn't make a move either. But apart from that we did have a lovely relaxing time.

The other thing that has happened during the year is that my wife suggested we sleep in separate rooms "to avoid temptation", not that anything was happening in the first place though, so not quite sure where that came from. There's another issue with snoring as well, so that's what we are now doing. For me though it actually makes mb easier, so perhaps indirectly (and of course wrongly) that is why I'm more at ease.

I still am putting my faith in God and the Holy Spirit regarding this, but as nothing has been happening, for now I have to conclude that's the way it is supposed to be for us.

Compliments of the season to you all.

George

Forever
14th December 2012, 09:37 PM
Pardon me George...can you tell me how old your children are now?

George
14th December 2012, 11:46 PM
Hello Forever - of course, no problem. They are 14 and 11. I managed to get Grandparents to look after them when we went away, that was a first too. Also if it helps I'm 52 and my wife is 49.

Forever
15th December 2012, 12:16 AM
Do you think it is a good idea to have separate bedrooms...especially at the age your children are? Wont that give them an idea that this is "normal" in marriage?

Do you think that perhaps the Lord would have you do something other than go along with her kind of leadership?

I guess what I am getting at is that for all these years, you have allowed her to call the shots...allowed her using her interpretation and "choice" of Scripture to back up what she believes to be the difference between good and evil as I recall.

I realize she has a lot of emotional problems...but after all this time, perhaps the one who needs to lay down some consequences for this neglect ,and yes, sin, is YOU. Maybe the Lord is waiting for you to take your rightful position and insist she get counsel and help for what she feels and believes? That is where YOU would come into the picture. Do nothing, and you get nothing...nothing changes when nothing changes. Relying entirely on what the Lord can or will do is good...but only AFTER you have exhausted all other avenues available...but it is my opinion is that you have not even begun.

Raymond
15th December 2012, 11:55 AM
To sleep in seperate rooms because of temptation? I wonder where she is getting her doctrine from. Certainly not the bible that states that we should not defraud the other in this matter (1 Cor: 7). She is in the wrong without a doubt. Keep praying for her. It isn't right.

Forever
15th December 2012, 05:24 PM
I am wondering if when she suggested separate bedrooms because of "temptations", that it was HER who was the one who was being "tempted"? I am thinking this since you have made no advances towards her...and if that is the case, this could indicate that the Lord "might" be trying to work with her perhaps...and she is resisting, thinking it is the devil? Just wishful speculation.:D

That she views sexual desire between a husband and wife as a temptation which comes from the pit of Hell is antithetical to God's design...this flies in the face of what He intended to use (sex) as a means of a continual bonding between a married couple...as well as a means of securing physical satisfaction in order to avoid temptation from others outside the marriage. When Adam saw Eve, I am sure he knew instinctively what he ought to be doing with her...and she probably figured out the same once he initiated action. Just the differences between men and women and the physical responses exhibited when they are both naked is a pretty good indication of our design and God's intended purpose...all without a needed "command" to encourage them to multiply. Sexual responsiveness never "required" a command...until the Devil entered the picture.

I wonder what your wife would say if she knew that when you mb'd, that there were "others" in your mind rather than her? That she has closed the door for you as a means for securing your own sexual purity because of her wrong beliefs?

I also wonder if you have explained to her that for men, needing sex is much the same as a woman who's breasts are too full of millk and must be released? She has had two children, so should know first hand about the drive to feed a hungry infant in a "timely" manner. This is speaking purely physiologically of course....and you were obviously not born a unich...which means that your satisfaction is ongoing until old age or disease removes it from you.

I cannot help but wonder what God thinks that you allow for this to continue...that you permit her sin to flourish into what is now separate bedrooms...and a husband mbing as though she were in her eiighties with severe medical issues?

If you have been praying ferverently for her, I wonder why God has not seen fit to answer you in some way that clearly lines up with His design and His Word?

So I can only conclude that perhaps He is expecting for you to examine your own leadership role in the home and in the marriage...and where it is found wanting, to "step up to the plate" and make changes....changes that will not fail to get her attention and put the record straight.

You are a "King" in your household...she is supposed to be subjecting herself to you. She is not. God did not set up a marriage in which the woman takes the dominate role and lives in rebellion towards the man she is supposed to love and serve with both body and soul.

What do you think about the idea of changing the nature of your prayers...from resignation to her ideas, instead, to asking God what He wants you to do to take the leadership back where it rightfully belongs in your own home and marriage? See if you get some insight and prompting?

chosen
15th December 2012, 08:05 PM
George you said
"I still am putting my faith in God and the Holy Spirit regarding this, but as nothing has been happening, for now I have to conclude that's the way it is supposed to be for us."

Not thats not the way it is supposed to be for you, its the way that you are allowing it to be, and that your wife is saying that it has to be. She is being disobedient to God and until you make a stand she will carry on being diosobedient. If snoring is an issue, then how come it hasnt been an issue for the many years you have been married previously? You are far too weak, you do everything she says including leaving your own marital bed. Why??????

Forever
15th December 2012, 08:44 PM
Well Chosen, if you can recall...he had an issue with "accommodations" in marriage last year, thinking that it would be a selfish thing to expect a spouse to do something which they did not want to do...and that it would spoil the whole experience.

I rather agree on some level with George in that. Why? Because sexual experiences are the most intimate...whereas accommodating a spouse by doing other types of things such as throwing out the trash or cooking the way he prefers does not seem to be such a deal breaker and delicate issue.

It really does not get to the heart of the matter even if she forces herself to yield to him...I think he wants it to be a mutually satisfying experience and a joy for both.

This is never going to be forthcoming as it stands now. There are other issues preventing even the simplest form of sexual accommodation going on here.

His wife RULES. Now, how to break through that?! What should he do that would not violate his own conscience to guide his wife into happy submission?

Edit:

Something that just came to mind...many years ago, my husband said that his ex wife had become more or less a "refuser"...citing his lack of spiritual leadership, parenting skills, bad habits, and the growing of disrespect for him. After some coaching which resulted in no change in her perspective, he said, "fine...I will refuse to go to work hence forth, being I also have a lot of issues over there too, and you can continue refusing to have sex with me...fair enough?" Things quickly changed. Point being that sometimes we need to "yield" to each other to make sure that basic fundamental needs are being met...she only wanted the two children and continued provisions...but he needed continual "support" too in his own basic way.

I asked him if she resented having to accommodate him sexually. He said that she did not appear to after that, citing that she never really thought about the fact that he did not enjoy what he had to do to provide for her and the children either...and that helped her to be less self centered and more giving about his needs.

chosen
15th December 2012, 10:01 PM
I am not suggesting that she is forced, as that helps no one, but if he insisted that if the marriage is to carry on they both have to go to counselling, then who knows? What she is doing is as bad an an affair in my opinion.
What your husband said is very wise.

Forever
15th December 2012, 10:24 PM
And if she refuses counseling???

chosen
16th December 2012, 05:37 PM
IT depends on whether he wants to accept this for the rest of his life or not. He may need to make a stand.

Forever
16th December 2012, 06:21 PM
What would a "stand" look like?

He is already sleeping separately in his own room, mbing, doing w/o sex, serving the family w/o anyone serving him...so what could he possibly do that would get her attention and cause her to repent for putting this on him?

chosen
16th December 2012, 08:03 PM
The only thing that may work would be to make it clear how unhappy he is, and that if she isnt prepared to get help, he will seperate from her.

Forever
16th December 2012, 08:13 PM
What about his 14 and 11 year old children?

chosen
16th December 2012, 08:30 PM
That would be her decision and not his. I would suggest that he go and speak to his pastor about this.

Forever
16th December 2012, 09:06 PM
Well, if he stands up to her and threatens to move out...that is still HIS decision to do so...she will likely tell him to go ahead with it then.

I would recommend staying for the children, until they reach the age of 18...that way they at least have their father in the home overseeing their well being, wont have to pay child support for his wife to live off of, and his character will be seen as without reproach. His concern for his children should take priority rather than his sexual issues dont you think? This man is not the usual...he is not out having an affair or viewing Porn because of his deprivation, and the only thing I would change for now (baring the Lord instructing him otherwise) is moving back into the marital bed. If she decides to sleep elsewhere, he has not lost anything...and then SHE can explain to the children why rather than him having to.

I was rather taken aback when you said that what his wife is doing is tantamount to "having an affair"...can you explain that? Who or what is she having an affair with?

George
21st December 2012, 10:12 AM
Do you think it is a good idea to have separate bedrooms...especially at the age your children are? Wont that give them an idea that this is "normal" in marriage?

Do you think that perhaps the Lord would have you do something other than go along with her kind of leadership?

I guess what I am getting at is that for all these years, you have allowed her to call the shots...allowed her using her interpretation and "choice" of Scripture to back up what she believes to be the difference between good and evil as I recall.

I realize she has a lot of emotional problems...but after all this time, perhaps the one who needs to lay down some consequences for this neglect ,and yes, sin, is YOU. Maybe the Lord is waiting for you to take your rightful position and insist she get counsel and help for what she feels and believes? That is where YOU would come into the picture. Do nothing, and you get nothing...nothing changes when nothing changes. Relying entirely on what the Lord can or will do is good...but only AFTER you have exhausted all other avenues available...but it is my opinion is that you have not even begun.

Hello Forever. Your message definitely challenges me, and I think the reason I don't do anything about it comes down to a combination of lack of faith and fear. I can see meltdown and divorce if I make an issue of anything, rather than the breath of fresh air of reconciliation and intimacy. Probably the devil creating that in my mind, just not sure how to grow in faith to remove that and focus on the positive to take the necessary steps.

With regard to separate rooms, I agree it isn't normal, and the children have queried it. The explanation, which, although it may be only part of the truth, is certainly true, is that both I and my wife need undisturbed sleep to be able to concentrate properly during the following day. Apparently my snoring is so bad my wife can't sleep at all, and then constantly wakes me up to stop me snoring ! Catch-22. So far that explanation has been accepted, but of course it does mask the "temptation" part of the equation.

Forever
21st December 2012, 05:19 PM
I would do this:

Tell your wife that you and she are living as room mates rather than as a married couple according to Scripture. Tell her that when the youngest turns 18 that your "job" is finished as far as morally and legally tending to their needs, and that she will need to start preparing herself for a career...as you will be leaving permanently to find a wife who will love you as God intended it.

Tell her that her interpretation of Scripture regarding submission, sex and love is so rebellious that the only reason that you continue to remain is for the children, and that you are not going to allow for this for the rest of your life.

Tell her that you will help her to launch herself into the world of employment as best that you can, because when your last child is eighteen, the so called "marriage" is finished.

That will give her something new to think about and focus her attention on.

Is this Biblical? You bet it is...God always warns His people before dishing out consequences...and she will have a seven year window of opportunity to repent.

As for the snoring, get a pair of earplugs...the soft kind for your wife and get back into the bedroom. My husband snores something awful, but the earplugs kept on my side of the bed work like a charm...especially if I use them as soon as I go to sleep rather than after he has already snored me awake.

Raymond
23rd December 2012, 06:34 PM
I've been hearing lately about christian women being really awakened bedroomwise in their marriages simply through seminars on the word of God where sex was not particularly mentioned.

I find that amazing and one of the wonders of the world. Many blame christianity for hang ups in the bedroom but in reality the opposite appears to be true. One has to differentiate between religion and christianity.

If you were able to encourage her to get deeply into God that would bring it's own answers George.