Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

[Jimsdarliing]

My husband and I have been together for almost three years now. He has a lot of old friends but there is one that I believe he is too friendly with. She's married but not happily so he seems to think that he has to make her feel better. He had her picture on the night stand on his side of the bed until I said something about it so he mooved it three feet away onto the dresser. He flatters her and calls her names like "foxy" and I think he's a little too physical with her. He thinks I'm just a jealous person. I'm 57 and have never been thought of as so before. We went to the movies and he sat between us, holding my hand and stroking it affectionately on his right and doing the exact same to her on his left. We got in the hot tub and he's massaging her feet. The last straw--we were in the car on the way to a banquet and when he reaches behind me in the front seat to lay his hand on her leg in the back seat. There were many other times I thought I was seeing something but was unsure. I was looking for a gift for her when he told me, "Don't you worry about _____. I'll take care of her." Am I being unreasonable for never wanting to be around her again?

[Forever]

Good grief woman, he's got something going for her and in plain sight. A pic of her on the nightstand?!!! Does he think you are stupid or what? Maybe you should get a pic of her husband and put it on your side of the bed? Nah, forget that, your husband would'nt even care if you did.

What would you advise someone else to do if they confided these things to you?

He's got alot of audacity calling you jealous, being he is the one who is causing all those feelings. You have good reason to feel that way, and you KNOW it. My advice is to have a nice chat with her as well as to alert her husband. If your concern is that you might come off looking paranoid or jealous, then you are going to be in for a whole lot more pain.

Oh, and sorry to say, but just because YOU dont want to ever be around her again, does not mean that HE is going to go along with that. He is having way too much fun. What did he give her as a gift by the way? Is he a Christian?

[Forever]

One other thing, I wonder how many others have noticed his attention to this "friend". If he can barely contain himself in front of you as his wife, Ill bet he is even more sloppy in front of others. His friends are probably wondering why you put up with it. Why ARE you putting up with this?

Sorry, maybe others can share better thoughts and advice than I can. I see so many gentle, lovely women here get stomped on. Why? Because they are afraid to draw the lines about what they will tolerate from their husband. They are afraid of everything, afraid to do anything, meanwhile, they are made to be at fault. They find all kinds of reasons to excuse some of the most dispicable behavior because they live in fear that if they rock the boat, then somehow they did something to destroy the marriage. Meanwhile, their lives become a bigger nightmare. You dont have a whole lot to lose if you married a man who does these things, then turns the tables on you.

[chosen]

Are you serious? I almost couldn't believe this when I read it. His behaviour is so wrong and inappriopriate that it takes my breath away. He has a picture of her next to his bed!?!. He holds her hand and strokes it!?!?. He puts his hand on her knee.!?!? He massages her feet in the hot tub?!?!He is acting as if he has 2 wives, I am surprised that he hasnt got her in the bed, with him in the middle between you both. What is she doing going to the cinema with you and your husband?. Where is her husband?
His behaviour is appalling, dangerous and I am surprised that you have put up with it this long.
Is he a Christian? Is she a Christian? if you all are, I suggest that you go and speak with your pastor or one of the elders and his wife and speak to them. If it were my pastor he would have him in quick smartish, and in no uncertain terms be seriously warning him.This is NOT the way that a married man should be acting with another woman. I wonder how he would feel if you sat between him and another man in the cinema, while holding both hands and stroking them. I am also amazed that this women thinks it is OK to act like with with your husband, even under your nose.What is she playing at?
I am totally 100% in a agreement with forever.If he were my husband this would have been dealt with long ago. I am great believer in strict boundaries in a marriage, I have seen far too much appalling behaviour, and this case is one of them. As forever said, what does he do with you not there? I dread to think.

My advise is for you to both to stop all contact with this woman, or at least limit it to when her husband is there as well. However this doesnt deal with the total lack of boundaries that he has with other women, and for that he needs some accountability with men from the church.There is no way that he should be buying her presents either without you.

I never touch any men except for my husband, son, or brother. My husband doesnt touch any women, except for his step daughters (the occasionsl hug), or me.
Honestly I am gobsmacked at his behaviour,and he blames you for being jealous????What a cheek.

[Raymond]

This is so obviously wrong it is incredible. Goodness knows what is going on in his head. That he does it in front of you JD is amazing.

Is he feeding this from the internet or what? There are some weird ideas going on out there these days. You musn't co-operate with it in any way. It must stop now. You must get the point over.

My thought is to smash that picture of her he has in the bedroom to get the point across. I am not sure about that but that is just my feeling.

Jealousy is not a bad feeling in these situations as it is wanting what is rightfully yours and not putting up with someone who is usurping some of your position. Also there is a right anger which will give you the power to do the right thing. Envy is wanting what belongs to someone else. Even God is jealous over us. He says he will use us to provoke Israel to jealousy. Would he provoke someone to evil? No. He provokes them to want what is rightfully theirs and to do something about it..

Same in your marriage. You cannot sit back and let this happen. If it carries on you could end up a threesome which is a perversion of what God has revealed under the new covenant.

[Jimsdarliing]

Thank you all so much for the advice. He is a Christian and, although it may not sound like it, he's a really good man and loves me a lot. He sees it all as harmless flirtation and doesn't understand how hurtful it is to me but I'm going to make him see.

[chosen]

Jimsdarling, there is no such thing as 'harmless' flirtation, and to be honest this is way beyond that anyway.He is treating her as if she is his wife or girlfriend. I do wonder what is going on in her head as well to think that this is normal behaviour.I bet they dont do it when her husband is around.

[Raymond]

I hope you get him to see the point JD. Touching another woman's knee etc. is sexual and has no place outside of marriage. Us men have to be careful in these things.

A married man in our church touched my wife's knee after giving her a lift a few years ago. She was very unhappy about it and told me immediately. It was a big thing to her whatever it was in his mind. Marriage is meant to be sacrosanct in those things.

[chosen]

I hope you get him to see the point JD. Touching another woman's knee etc. is sexual and has no place outside of marriage. Us men have to be careful in these things.

A married man in our church touched my wife's knee after giving her a lift a few years ago. She was very unhappy about it and told me immediately. It was a big thing to her whatever it was in his mind. Marriage is meant to be sacrosanct in those things.

Raymond I agree totally. if a man touched my knee or tried to hold my hand and stroke it, I would tell him in no uncertain terms to stop immediatly. I wonder if the OW's husband is aware of these things that go on? It maybe why her marriage isnt very good because she is holding a candle for your husband. A man who flirts doesnt have a photo of the lady by his bed.
JD, you say that he loves you but if he did why would he act so badly and hurt you?Is it possible that he loves both of you and wants both of you? Are other people in the church aware of what he does? if so have any of them said anything?

[Raymond]

I think he is deceiving himself. He might think he is being loving but it is obvious that something else has crept in that shouldn't be there.

[Jimsdarliing]

I thank God for and love you guys for taking the time to reassure me. I thought I was losing my mind. I now feel I have to confront him about it all after the new year and family holiday obligations are fulfilled. Please pray for it all to come out well.

[chosen]

JD
No you arent loosing your mind, in fact you have put up with thing that few would have. It may be an idea for you to write down some boundaries for his behaviour with her (and any other women)so that you have something to start with. A good book on this subject is called "Hedges" by Jerry B Jenkins. It is all about putting hedges round our marriage to protect it. I think you can get it on amazon.

He may not want to listen, as he is probably enjoying what he does, but if he refuses, it may be worth going to counselling together, or going to see the pastor together. He really needs to hear it from other people as well as you.

The first thing that needs to happen I would say, is for him to stop seeing this other lady, unless her husband is there. No one on one time with her or any other women, and stop the touching completely, and the photo needs to go. She doesnt need to go to the cinema, or anywhere else, with the two of you. If she wants to go, then her husband can come as well.
Touching, like on the knee, and holding hands etc, is for you and you alone. These things are very intimate.
I Will pray for you, (and I am sure others here will as well) that he sees sense.
God Bless

[Raymond]

I can't add to that.

Will be praying for you JD that the message gets through to him from you or others and of course the HS.

[chosen]

Jd another thought occured to me. Do you know her husband quite well? Is he aware of what is happening?. Does it happen when he is there?
If your husband wont listen to you, it may be an idea to fill him in as well. I honestly cant see any husbands who would be happy at what his wife and another man are doing, such as this.

[marriedforlife]

I am the friend. My husband and I both have been friends with her husband for many years...over 20-25 years. I love my husband and we have been through a lot together and he is a private individual. When the original poster met our friend, he had been through a lot as well. She became a very good friend. I am a Christian and know my husband doesn't want me talking about him to anyone, but her husband is his best friend and we had come to be like brother/sister. I, too have posted on a Christian forum and was advised to talk with someone concerning other things having nothing to do with this situation...just have someone to talk to. When I thought she was a true friend, I felt comfortable talking with them about things concerning my husband. With her husband because he has been like one of the family; with her because we seemed to be kindred spirits. My husband calls him his "brother." They both served in the military and have common experiences. We have had common experiences in hobbies, trips, and other things friends of such long standing have. He has pictures of many people from these experiences, mine included. One thing I have learned from this experience is, not to confide in anyone. Her husband is a dear man who is affectionate with several women that he has known much longer than his wife. His "touching" is not sexual; it is his nature. She has made him happy and I am happy for them. I do not want anything more than a friendship relation with him. The "touching" she is referring to, is nothing like it was presented. I want him to be happy- I want THEM to be happy. I want to be happy with my husband...not do anything to destroy anyone's marriage. I am trying desperately to make my own husband happy. He tends to not want to go and do much and when I am there without him is when she "sees" things that are not there. I didn't go to a movie with them. There was a play we went to in which the audience lights were dimmed, but not off.

I know that to anything there are three sides to a story...mine, yours, and the real one. I have prayed about this situation and I want to deal with it between myself and my God. JD should also do the same. God knows the real story. I do not wish to and will not come between her and her husband. A decades-long friendship cannot end because of something not there, but I can hold my distance.

[chosen]

So are you claiming that he never holds you hand, or puts his hand on your knee or that he didnt have your photo by his bed? Marriedforlife, you claim that he is like a brother. I have 2 brothers, and we dont touch each other like this. We hug when we say hello or good bye, but that is it, and they are REAL brothers and not just friends.

If he is affectionate with other women as well, that makes it worse. Whether the touching is sexual or not, doesnt matter(and if he does touch other women on the knee, it is sexual), it isnt appropriate for a married man to touch another women in this way unless she is his wife. Maybe your boundaries are much more lax than mine and my husbands, but he would never dream of touching another women in this way.

If I were you I would stay right away from this marriage, and maybe she will stop feeling hurt and being accused of jealousy.You are both married, so it may be sensible to keep the physical affection for your own spouses, where it belongs, so that there is no misunderstanding.

[marriedforlife]

[/QUOTE]If I were you I would stay right away from this marriage, and maybe she will stop feeling hurt and being accused of jealousy.[/QUOTE]

If I had realized when I first met her that there was a problem, it wouldn't have gotten to this. It will just not be that way any more. (By the way, I do have a brother with whom I am affectionate and there is nothing sexual about it.)

Thank you for your prayers for her marriage as well as for mine.

[Forever]

If you want them both to be happy, then you can understand why perhaps it is critical that you stop all touching. JD has only been married to her husband for three years and does not "see" the level of your affection with her husband as healthy, but threatening. If you care about them as a couple, rather than just about how good you feel when Jim shows affection towards you, then you must do the Godly thing for JD too.

Calling you "Foxy", putting his hand on your knee, massaging your feet in the hot tub, ect. are things HUSBANDS do to their wifes, not someone else's, not even to their sisters.

You are a member of the opposite sex, probably attractive, and Jim is out of line when his wife expresses distress to him and he continues doing these things. If JD's imagination is going on overdrive at this point, it is because you and her husband are not respecting proper boundaries as married people. I believe JD. She would not come to a forum if there were nothing wrong, and she is within her marital rights to want these things stopped.

I believe these things should be taken to the Pastor, and you saying that your husband not wanting to talk about personal things to anyone does not play into fairness at this point.

JD has every right and responsibility to talk to whomever she needs to in order to bring these things to light so that she can have peace in her soul. Her perception of her husband and marriage is at stake now. I would think that you would want that for her? I think she should talk to YOUR husband about what she has been experiencing, get his take on it, and if that does not satisfy her, she should bring this to the attention of the Pastor.

Has it ever occured to you that perhaps the Lord wants Jim's behavior with other women curtailed? Perhaps other MEN have been distressed by his attention to their wives or girlfriends? Perhaps JD is the catalyst for the Lord drawing attention to a much needed area in Jim's life.

Does this sound reasonable to you Marriedforlife?

[Forever]

I see that you have resolved to make sure these things do not happen again Marriedforlife. With that, also resolve to understand that MOST women would have felt exactly like JD does. Protect her.

A good question to ask...at WHAT point then, if all these things were so innocent, SHOULD a married woman/man become alarmed? See what I mean? WHEN should a man or woman start recognizing that something is amiss if not when the things Jim is doing are happening over a period of time? How would you feel if YOUR husband was doing these things to certain women...umm, especially attractive ones? This is what we see, I hope you understand.

Feel free to come to this forum if you need us too.

In Christ,
Forever

[chosen]

If I were you I would stay right away from this marriage, and maybe she will stop feeling hurt and being accused of jealousy.[/QUOTE]

If I had realized when I first met her that there was a problem, it wouldn't have gotten to this. It will just not be that way any more. (By the way, I do have a brother with whom I am affectionate and there is nothing sexual about it.)

Thank you for your prayers for her marriage as well as for mine.[/QUOTE]



So does you brother put his hand on you knee, call you foxy, and massage your feet in the hot tub?????I have never seen a brother and sister act like that ever.
These are things for a married couple. Apparently JD'S husband sees these things as harmless flirting, but as I am sure you know there is no such thing as harmless flirting. It is very disrespectful for a spouse to flirt with another man/woman, especially if they are there seeing it. I am glad that you are going to stop this behaviour. I am totally amazed that you thought it was appropriate, but better late than never anyway.

Boundaries in marriage, as forever said, are vital. Also as forever says, maybe other men are unhappy with the way he touches their wives. (or maybe he doesnt do it when they are there?)and this maybe the time when he needs to learn what is and what isnt appropriate for a married man. All I can say is that if my pastor was bought into a situation such as this. he would have some strong words to say to all involved. In fact he was recently telling us of a situation where he noticed a youth worker from another church acting innapropriately with an older teenager. (Nothing specific, but it made him uncomfortable). He found out later that the man left his wife and 3 small children for this girl. He SO regretted that he didnt say something to someone at the time.

When I was in my mid teens, a married man from church who was in his 20's, put his hand on my knee, when we were in his car(he was giving me a lift home) and I felt SO uncomfortable and embarrased. I didnt know what to do, and never told anyone. I found out afterwards that he had a tendency to do things like that. I cant understand how any woman can think this is OK behaviour. I just KNEW, even at that age, that it was wrong.

If you both put all of your affection and focus onto your own spouses, then you will be safe, and JD will feel secure and not threatened . Just because you have known a person for a long time, that gives no excuse for innappropriate affection.

[marriedforlife]

It would probably be helpful to both of us if she would talk to me. When I originally heard from her that something was amiss was through an email, maybe the day she first posted on here, then through this forum. She and I need to sit and talk and I really think we could resolve the issue. She will not talk wth me.

[Forever]

Well, you can be sure that she is reading this forum. How about you being gracious to her and posting why a conversation between the two of you would help?

If I were her, I might feel like you would try to justify your behavior and would try to make me feel like it was all my imagination and that I were crazy. Im not accusing you of this...this is just what would be going through my head in her position. She is probably afraid, maybe even humiliated by this, especially since you denied her reality and NEEDS for you to acknowledge that her take on things is just as legitimate as you see yours to be.

Protect her. Your intentions toward her husband may seem innocent to you, being you are on the receiving end of her husbands affection, and it feels nice doesnt it? But she is not you, her postition in her marriage is being compromised, and her husband thinks flirting is okay. It isnt. Flirting is for single people, for those who want someone to know that they are in the line of sights for potential romance. Is this how you wanted to come across? No? But it IS what happened.

You are her sister in Christ. Protect her.

[chosen]

You can resovle the issue.....by keeping away from her husband and not acting inappropriatly with him. I am not sure speaking to her will do anything when it can be so easily resoved by you staying away, admitting the wrong that you have done, and appologising to her for what has been going on.(you can do that by e-mail).
The fact that all here who have replied were all in such total agreement, says something surely. The fact that we all reacted with such shock, shows that what was happening was way out of line dont you think?
Hopefully the other women he is like this with, will see sense as well. Hopefully one or two of the husbands of these women will be man enough to stand up to him and call him on this. Or maybe even the pastor or one of the elders.Someone needs to.

[marriedforlife]

We finally did speak. I have apologized. I do still love her and wish them both the best. I will stay away unless I am with my husband. Please continue to pray for us both. He truly does love her and she has made him happy.

[Forever]

This is WONDERFUL to hear! Thankyou so much for your humble response to our sister in Christ!

If you ever need us, we are here for you...hopefully for your comfort and edification also.

Forever

[chosen]

marriedforlife
You have definately done the right thing by appologising, and you have shown her that it wasnt all in her mind and that she had a right to be jealous. I REALLY hope that her husband will also see this, and appologise to her as well, and also that any similar behaviour of his with other women will stop also. I also REALLY hope that he wont resent what she has done by getting help here and changing things.
God Bless

[Raymond]

Yes well done married for life to see this. It is a wonderful result not always achieved. We don't always know what we are doing is wrong and may do it in faith, but when more revelation comes we then have a responsibility. We are not only to avoid evil but even avoid the appearance of it and we musn't stumble the weaker brethren with our faith.

[Jimsdarliing]

Thank you all so much! I love you all so much for what you have done to help me through this. God is GREAT!

[Raymond]

God has certainly answered prayer here in an incredible way.

I know that hubby has to get the full message and hopefully he will after this.

God bless you JD and you too MFL.

[Jimsdarliing]

[QUOTE=chosen;58679]JD
No you arent loosing your mind, in fact you have put up with thing that few would have. It may be an idea for you to write down some boundaries for his behaviour with her (and any other women)so that you have something to start with. A good book on this subject is called "Hedges" by Jerry B Jenkins. It is all about putting hedges round our marriage to protect it. I think you can get it on amazon.

He may not want to listen, as he is probably enjoying what he does, but if he refuses, it may be worth going to counselling together, or going to see the pastor together. He really needs to hear it from other people as well as you.

[Jimsdarliing]

I admit he is somewhat of a flirt but I assure you, he has never done such with another woman. However, I do intend to get and read the book. I appreciate all you have done--you've truly made a difference and I thank God for all of my friends here in the forum.

[AnneCaley]

My husband and I have been together for almost three years now. He has a lot of old friends but there is one that I believe he is too friendly with. She's married but not happily so he seems to think that he has to make her feel better. He had her picture on the night stand on his side of the bed until I said something about it so he mooved it three feet away onto the dresser. He flatters her and calls her names like "foxy" and I think he's a little too physical with her. He thinks I'm just a jealous person. I'm 57 and have never been thought of as so before. We went to the movies and he sat between us, holding my hand and stroking it affectionately on his right and doing the exact same to her on his left. We got in the hot tub and he's massaging her feet. The last straw--we were in the car on the way to a banquet and when he reaches behind me in the front seat to lay his hand on her leg in the back seat. There were many other times I thought I was seeing something but was unsure. I was looking for a gift for her when he told me, "Don't you worry about _____. I'll take care of her." Am I being unreasonable for never wanting to be around her again?

If you have a contentious problem in your relationship, you have to eliminate the causes of the problem, then eliminate the problem itself and mend the breach. Failure to erase problems and their causes will allow them to continue to be an issue in your partnership. Marriage or any other type of intimate relationship requires more than just being there. You should cultivate mutually pleasurable activities. You have to consider and address your partner’s needs and wants, not allow other people to interfere, make a commitment, and work out your differences.

[Jimsdarliing]

I sure hope one of you who has read the whole, sorid story will see this and help me! My heart is ripped and I don't know what to do. I thought it was all solved and we even had them over a couple of times and things went smoothly. I was polite and she was polite and all seemed OK.

But then my husband and I went to Cozumel scuba diving with some other friends. On our last night, he was on the computer when I walked in and he shut it down quickly and closed the lid. He hadn't logged out of Facebook and I saw the message he sent to the other woman and it read, "Everywhere I look on this beautiful island I see you lying there, sitting there, swimming there. I wish you were here to share it with me in the worst way. But I know that will never be, so I'll continue to live on imagination... " Her response was, "Hope y'all are having fun. Be careful on these messages." (Note the word "these.")

I am fully confident that there has never been anything more than words and touching between them but I have fallen apart. I told him what I saw and said she had to go or I did. Again, I'm accused of insane jealously and he resents me because I have "destroyed a friendship of 26 years." He called her and told her that the friendship is over and she told him that I had sent her threatening letters (which I promise I did NOT and I could even post the letters to prove it. He won't read them). I understand that he did all the touching and love letter writing but she convinced him that she was "innocent" and now the victim of my wrath because of it. I disagree--I think she should have told him where to get off long ago.

Anyway, when I asked him why he did it, he said he just felt sorry for her because she had gone through diving classes with him and he felt sorry for her because we were having so much fun and she would probably never get to have such a trip. He really is like that; he wants everyone to he happy and feel special.

To sum it all up, we've had a big fight and I'm the villian. Please be honest with me!

[marriedforlife]

I have come to this site under another name and another strand for my own sanity and have checked this one from time to time, hoping that things are smoother for them-thinking if nothing is posted, then they are O.K.

I have done what I said I would do. I have stayed away except for when we both went to their house. I have "unfriended" both. I don't need anyone to feel sorry for me. As I said before, MY marriage is what is important to me. The only reason I ever went to the two of them was because I was advised to find someone to talk to. I don't really think my marriage is an unhappy one, just going through some rough spots--as all marriages do. I wish I had continued to keep it all inside as I had done before. "These" messages was just referring to messages on facebook in general...to anyone. The reason being that someone had previously said something about a party for someone that was supposed to be a surprise and accidentally posted it on their profile rather than in a message.

I don't know what else I can do. I am not a hussy; I don't even wear provacative clothing. I am not the only one called Foxy and Darling. I mentioned the emails because when he said the friendship was over, I said I understood because I had received irate emails--and I did. I haven't done anything.

[marriedforlife]

By the way...we started out being friends. I told Jim he had made a good choice...that she was good for him. I liked her a lot; then all of a sudden in December, I found that she "hated my guts!" Neither of us are bad people.

[Jimsdarliing]

I'm glad you admit that we are not bad people. I agree. But I do not want my husband making love to another woman! If you are too weak to stop it, you have to go. . . period.

[marriedforlife]

I AM gone. What else can I do?

[Jimsdarliing]

Someone please help me!

[chosen]

Jims darling, yes that message he sent was wrong and innappropriate. The fact that he tried to hide it so quickly shows that he knew that. His excuse for saying what he did was rediculous. I really think that you both need to cut off all contact.

Married for life, what you can do is to block eny e-mails that he sends, and isnt there a way to block any messages from him on facebook?Dont even respond to any correspondance that he sends that does get through. Ignore him completely.He will soon get the message.Also as I said above, cut off all contact with them,and dont make out Jims darling to be the villain, to him.Stay right away completely, for good.

[Jimsdarliing]

Thank you, Chosen, for your reply. I'm praying the matter is truly resolved and for good this time. I really believe it is. My husband and I have talked the matter out and are doing well now. Again, thank you.

[Forever]

So as you can see Married for life, if you had a husband who is using his imagination to make love to other women and is getting as close to the edge of adultry as possible, well, it does not make for a good marriage. That is no way to have to live. You fell for his flattery, backed off to a certain extent, but it was not enough. Jim is fixated on you, and I am sure he will soon find another to take your place for his lustfull imagination to enjoy.

I feel sorry for you Jims darling. You will likely have to spend the rest of your life checking up on Jim because his heart is double minded and easily drawn away from being faithful to whomever he is married to. Then he has the balls to blameshift HIS problem onto you!!

You are by no means insanely jealous! What Jim does is outrageous and any woman would take a hard look at what she had gotten herself into at this point. You will have to babysit him until the day he is dealt with by the Holy Spirit.

Best Wishes

[Jimsdarliing]

You could be right, Forever. I know he really does love to shower all my lady friends with attention and he needs to feel adored by women in general. He has "jokingly" made inuendos toward a couple of friends of mine. One told me about it and the other (a single lady) told him flat out that she wouldn't do me that way. I really don't think he would go all the way with another woman and I certainly pray that he won't. Through all this though, I know beyond a doubt that the man loves me deeply. Please pray for us.

[chosen]

Why does a man act so badly if he loves you, I dont get it, That isnt love. The only one he should be flirting with and saying these things to, is you.Love is shown by our actions and not just by words.

[Forever]

I cant help but wonder what his previous wife endured??? Why is it not enough for a man to be loved and cherished by his wife and not need the attention of other women? Did he accuse his previous wife of being jealous and make her feel like she was going out of her mind so he could continue to persue the attention of other women?

I doubt we have seen the last of this, and I know what it is like to live thinking my husband loves me (because he says so) while watching him "love" other women too. There is a spirit that has him ensnared...probably for decades, and it is not the Holy one. The problem is not this woman, or that woman, Jim's Darling...the problem is JIM, the stuff going on within himself. You can try and protect your marriage all you want, but in the end, to no avail, because the problem lay in the heart of the man you married. All the other women only serve to expose that fact.

Yes, I will pray for you Jim's Darling, however, be advised that the battle is yours as well. The Lord will continue to show you where the root problem is and what HE wants you to do about it. Meanwhile, it is a shame that there are so many women out there who love flattery and will gravitate towards someone such as your husband who is more than thrilled to give it...a very dangerous proposition. If your husband had a pure heart, he would not even be interested in getting that close to most women, but rather, would have many close male friends instead. He would not feel the slightest bit threatened or deprived by guarding the quality of communication he had with other women, especially as a married man.

Coincidently, I have ended a 21 day (juice only) fast, AGAINST THE ENEMY, on behalf of my husband just yesterday. It was prompted by the Holy Spirit after an ugly incident when we went to LasVegas for my husbands hernia surgery. Our battle is NOT with flesh and blood, but with the unseen evil spirits in high places....and all the talk, tears, reasoning and restrictions will not help this kind of thing at all...they only get sneakier. Part of it was a spirit of Rebellion, the rest of it was a spirit of Lust. I will let you know if I see any victory in my husbands life...I can tell even by the sort of movies he wants to watch (among other things).

If necessary, I will do it again and again until there is victory.

[chosen]

Foeever well done, I hope that the fast will help. I tried a fruit only fast once, and by the end of the first day I got the WORST migraine ever, so I have never done it since.
I also agree that it is very sad that some women, even married ones, will be flattered by this sort of attention from another man, even a married one. I would run away as fast as I could if any man tried this with me, either that or kick him where it hurt! I HATE that sort of thing, flirting I mean. I never allow myself to get close to other men ever, apart from family.
A good friend of mines husband was often flirting with younger women. He went on to have an affair and it ended the marriage leaving 2 childrens lives damaged. Its playing with fire, and theres no way I would ever put up with it. As you said, he needs good male friends and not female ones.

[Jimsdarliing]

Forever, thank you so much for sharing and all your advice. I hurt for you horribly and am praying but it's comforting to know someone understands. By the way, it's previous wives, not wife. I'm number four but please don't hold that against him. I was widowed after 36 years marriage. He came along two and a half years later and was truly a God send. We dated a year, been married two. I hope I haven't colored Jim too horribly. He loves EVERYONE and wants to be special to men and women. He is active in his church, worked with Habitat for Humanities, is a member of the Marine Corps League, etc. He wants to help everyone (not just women) and I know that he's always there for his men friends as much as the women. I realize we might have a serious problem but I don't know how to fix it aside from loving him and praying hard. My daughter sent me an interesting questionnaire about opposite sex friendships though if anyone is interested: http://www.marriagemissions.com/20-questions-for-guiding-opposite-sex-friendships-in-marriage/

[chosen]

jims darling
If your husband has been divorced 3 times there will almost certainly be a reason for that.
Do you know why his first 3 marriages failed? Do you know any of his ex wives? I suspect that it was partly his flirting behaviour, which is very wrong, and very hurtful for any spouse, that contributed towards their demise. I think you are VERY brave marrying a man to be his 4th wife, I couldnt do it.

[Jimsdarliing]

You'd have to know Jim. I haven't known andy of his wives but he married the first when he was 17 because she was pregnant. They had a really bad marriage but he stayed with her til the kids were grown. Even his kids don't have much to do with her. We have many friends who knew the second and third one who aren't friends with the wives any more. They tell me both women were a bit on the crazy side. They have all the confidence in the world that Jim chose right this time. I am the third of my mom's four daughters to marry a man and be the fourth wife. Is that not strange? But the first has been with her husband 35 years, the second has for 18 years, and I plan on following their lead. Thank you so much for your concern but I'm confident we will make it with God's help.

[chosen]

Well if he starts behaving himself, and acting in a way that shows he loves and respects you, then it may well last. I hope so for your sake.
Could it be however, that his wives seemed slightly crazy because they were totally fed up with the flirting and innappropriate behaviour with other women? That would be enough to upset and deeply hurt most wives. There really is no excuse for it.

Must admit that I have never known anyone who has married and become a third wife, let alone a forth. My husbands former wife had an affair with a three times divorced man, and did want to marry him, but it never got that far, and they broke up.I suspect that he had had enough of marriages that ended in divorce and didnt want to go down that route again.Cant blame him I suppose.

[Jimsdarliing]

I don't know what else to do but to pray and watch. I know the other wives weren't faithful either and it seems it probably just snowballed into a disaster. They are so disfunctional that they never even had true friends while Jim has always had many. Also, I believe he's grown quite a bit, even though he still likes to flirt. I don't believe the others cared that he did so he doesn't understand why I do but he's adjusting. I'll take it one day at a time, pray, and love him with all I've got. Thank you for all your advice. This forum has been a real blessing to me.

[marriedforlife]

Though we have been friends for a very long time, the described behavior with me only took place recently. My only intention in talking with them, as I was advised, was to help me understand my husband. I have never wanted anything other than to have a good marriage with him. I didn't say anything to my husband because of his friendship with Jim. I was not aware of Jim's cheating on his other wives. I knew them and they were "out there," but I was not privvy to anything else.
I do appreciate your prayers.

[Raymond]

It's funny how you know when this thread comes to life again mfl. Not a criticism just an observation.

Are you now saying that Jim was a little untoward to the opposite sex including you? I thought you said before it was all in her head or something like that? From what is written on this thread it does seem as though he has a certain record concerning this and has a problem, perhaps with using flattery on the opposite sex.

I know you have now recognised how this has affect JD's marriage, but the e mail he sent you on holiday, from what has been written here, should never be sent to a married woman from a married man. You shouldn't allow it, however flattering you may find it.

May I ask what you are asking us to pray about as we don't not know anything about your problems. Or are you asking us to pray for Jim's Darling?

[chosen]

Though we have been friends for a very long time, the described behavior with me only took place recently. My only intention in talking with them, as I was advised, was to help me understand my husband. I have never wanted anything other than to have a good marriage with him. I didn't say anything to my husband because of his friendship with Jim. I was not aware of Jim's cheating on his other wives. I knew them and they were "out there," but I was not privvy to anything else.
I do appreciate your prayers.

what does 'out there' mean?

[Raymond]

That they existed but not any details?

[marriedforlife]

I have come to this site under another name and another strand for my own sanity and have checked this one from time to time, hoping that things are smoother for them-thinking if nothing is posted, then they are O.K.

Raymond...The quote above is how I have known about a continuing discourse on this thread.

I am asking for prayers concerning what I asked for earlier...that I may understand my husband and be a better wife to him. I am active in my church and my church family prays for one another. I asked for prayers from Christian brothers and sisters on this site and would appreciate them, but if you do not want to offer them up for me, then they would not be in the right spirit anyway.

I doubt that I will post another reply, because it seems that things are interpreted with a question to follow. I have a hard time not replying when clarification is necessary. I want out of this whole thing and have done everything I know to do.

[marriedforlife]

I apologize...I did not answer all the questions. "out there" is that they had emotional problems independent of their marriages.

Not sure what you are asking on "That they existed but not any details?"

By all means...pray for Jimsdarling, Jim, me, my husband...all Christians...

[chosen]

I apologize...I did not answer all the questions. "out there" is that they had emotional problems independent of their marriages.

Not sure what you are asking on "That they existed but not any details?"

By all means...pray for Jimsdarling, Jim, me, my husband...all Christians...
Mfl
Raymond was answering my question about what 'out there' meant. Its OK.

It seems from this mans 2nd and 3rd wife that maybe he was attracted to women with emotional problems at that time, but its sad that he has had so many marriage break ups, but I am sure that this flirting cant have helped any of them. It must have bought insecurity and hurt to all of his wives. Of course we will pray for you. I too desire to be the best wife that I can and that isnt always easy is it, as basically we can all be pretty selfish at times.
My advise from now on is to focus on him and him alone, and never get involved in anyway with a man who flirts(no matter how long you have known him), unless it is your own husband flirting with you. lol
Flirting is innexcusable in my opinion, and something that I would never put up with.

[Jimsdarliing]

Help! Is anyone up this late?
I didn't want them here but they came tonight and it was a disaster. We had other company but her husband had something of Jim's and wanted to bring it back. Turns out it was her birthday and everyone except me wished her a happy one. Then, later, at bedtime when I went to brush my teeth, I found a bag by my sink and thought that he had bought me a gift. It was a beautiful Irish cross necklace but then I read the bag and it said Trish. As is his habit, he buys gifts and puts them in his closet for their occasion. He had been digging in the closet for a gift he had bought for another friend (his brother's lady friend) and must have run across it and inadvertently left it laying there for me to see. My guess--it was to be her birthday present before the explosion. We had another arguement and, again, I'm up at one o'clock in the morning trying to sort through all the pain. The pain won't quit. Why won't she just go away? She keeps saying she will.

[chosen]

You do need to try and stay way from them. It isnt right that he buys her gifts especially without telling you.(and also why leave it by your sink????) I do think that both of you and both of them know that there needs to be no more contact. If he had something to give your husband he could have popped it round himself at some point, and not both turned up without notice.
However this dosnt actually deal with the fact that he is still a flirt with women generally, that is another issue that he must sort out.
I wonder if some good counselling may help you and he to set some godly boundaries about his behaviour with women. Otherwise it may never stop and he will carry on hurting you. He isnt helpless to stop this behaviour you know, and if he knows how much it hurts you then why does he keep on doing it?

[Raymond]

Raymond...The quote above is how I have known about a continuing discourse on this thread.

I am asking for prayers concerning what I asked for earlier...that I may understand my husband and be a better wife to him. I am active in my church and my church family prays for one another. I asked for prayers from Christian brothers and sisters on this site and would appreciate them, but if you do not want to offer them up for me, then they would not be in the right spirit anyway.

I doubt that I will post another reply, because it seems that things are interpreted with a question to follow. I have a hard time not replying when clarification is necessary. I want out of this whole thing and have done everything I know to do.

Married for Life if you have come on under another name you would have had input and prayer if you had asked for it. We will pray anyway but you have not told us much about your marriage so we can only pray on the brief info you have given us.

As the thread is for Jim's Darling there are obviously things to clarify as we are concerned for her as well.

[Raymond]

Giving a gift personally like that from a married man to a married woman is not a good idea. If I do it it is always a joint thing from us both so that there is no misunderstanding. It seems as if your husband JD needs to learn some protocol here.

It's as if he has not changed and all that's happened is that MFL has recognised the problem and is not co-operating with it. I hope I am wrong about him.

I agree with Chosen in that he needs counselling. Is he willing to have counselling for it? There is something deepseated there which he needs help for but the start is simply recognising it and wanting to do something about it.

Perhaps these gifts need to be from you both as a married couple. Maybe you would have more input on the decorum of it if that was so.

[Forever]

Jim's Darling,

Seems to me that Married For Life's husband is rather clueless about the level of antics and discomfort that his wife and Jim have been causing in your life? Perhaps now would be a good time to fill him in? Apparently, he is comfortable popping over which indicates he remains in the dark about the issues.

I cant help but wonder what we are supposed to be praying for here regarding Marriedforlife...so much is left unsaid and I am not good at generalities and superficial praying...I go for specifics.

I concure with Chosen. If Jim has been behaving this way through the other marriages he has had, over time, it would make any wife look like she is derranged, jealous, paranoid ect. She would start acting very much on the defense and even start imagining some things that were not necessarily there.

[Jimsdarliing]

Jim has a thing about buying gifts for people and then putting them in labeled plastic bags that he then stores in a bigger bag. I don't know when he had bought the Celtic cross for her (it could have been long ago) nor if he'd gotten it out to give to her for her birthday when she came over last night but never got the opportunity, or it could be that he had just left it out accidently when he was digging through his bag of gifts earlier looking for the ones he had for his brother. All I know is that the knife twisted in my heart again. He won't talk about it and I can't insist since we've had overnight company and will have through the weekend. Please pray that we get this resolved and I do intend to beg him to go to counseling with me. MFL sent me an email to say she thought it would be OK to come by with her husband and I think she had no idea it would go so awry. She said that she's praying for us and will drop out of our lives. I know she never meant to hurt me.

[Forever]

Even if Jim goes to counseling, he has stepped over the line too much with MFL. She will have to disappear regardless, and you and Jim can continue with other relationships apart from that one. MFL's husband has a right to know why things are strained and why his wife is no longer welcome...he can thank Jim for that, and his wife for being so responsive to Jims flirting and touching. You may want to print out the whole thread for her husband so he will get a more clear picture of things.

[Jimsdarliing]

Although it's probably the right thing to do, I don't think I can tell her husband all. I really entertained the thought when I thought I couldn't stop things on my own but couldn't bring myself to tell him. I'm afraid her marriage wouldn't survive it and Jim might never forgive me.

[Forever]

That puts you in a very ackward position doesnt it? How then do you account for avoiding them and making sure Jim and MFL do not cross paths in the future? Perhaps Jim would not forgive you (that is called "blame shifting"), but as I see it, he is the one who caused the whole mess in the first place.

If MFL's marriage would not survive it, perhaps that is a strong indication that her behavior has been less than sterling? However, I would not sacrifice my marriage to save hers.

You should probably have a talk with Jim about what the boundaries should be here if you do not wish to involve MFL's husband. Like, Jim does not go over to their house, MFL does not go to yours...or email, text, facebook, ect. Your marriage is in trouble, the only way to back away from this cliff is that Jim responds to what he has created and gives full disclosure and cooperation. Otherwise, it will all blow up and everything will become exposed eventually anyway.

[Jimsdarliing]

I don't know what MFL told her husband as to why she'd never come back but she said that did tell him that last night and I believe her. I also ernestly believe her when she says she's out of our lives and that she's praying for us as I am for her and her marriage too. There's really not a lot of reason for our paths to cross and I pray they never do. It's a bittersweet ending to a sordid story. Please continue to pray for us and please pray for a solid marriage for MFL and her husband too. I love you all and thank you so much! May God bless you as much as He blessed me when he sent you to advise me.

[chosen]

Jims darling, good on you. I am hoping that you and your husband can together agree on some godly boundaries about his behaviour with other women. Even though this particular situation may have been sorted, the way he acts with women generallly hasn't, and this situation may well arise again in the future with different women if it isnt addressed.
I do suspect that his behaviour may well have contributed to his previous marriages going wrong, as what he does is extreemly hurtful and wrong.
It wont stop unit it is addressed properly, maybe in marriage counselling or with a godly couple in your church. The root is still there and needs to be pulled up. Its like a weed, you can cut the top off (as has been done here) but the weed will just grow back until the whole root has been pulled up.

God Bless

[Raymond]

I think you are right about the root Chosen. That's what I got when I prayed. The behaviour can be modified but I am getting also that there is a root going way back probably from childhood. It might be a rejection there that is fed through the acceptance of these women. I don't know.

[Jimsdarliing]

I both appreciate and don't doubt what the two of you are saying but since everything has turned so smooth for Jim and me, I have turned coward and can't rock the boat by suggesting counseling. He truly is contrite now and since MFL is out of the picture. . .

Jim felt quite homely growing up and was extremely shy around girls. His first girlfriend of any sort was at 17 and she became his first wife. I think he could have such a need to feel special and accepted because of that. It also is his nature to be extremely giving and he cares as much to be accepted by men as he does women (of course not in a sexual way) and loves to buy them gifts and thoughtful tokens too.

We can't go to another married couple in the church because we go to separate churches. We are both very Christian but he has been going to his church for 20 years and doesn't want to change. However, since it is more liberal and I am very conservative, I have continued to go to my church. I hate this but it's something else I pray about. I do believe we should be in the same church.

The flirting hasn't gone to such an extreme until now and, unless it gets out of hand again, I intend to just watch and pray and enjoy the wonderful, warm relationship we have going right now. I agree that we probably should go but since I really don't think he will agree to go, I'll just hang in there.

Again, thank you so very much and may God bless you as he has me.

[chosen]

yes do pray about the church situation. Personally I feel it is very important that a married couple go to the same church. If they are both teaching the whole gospel truth then maybe some sompromise may be necessary. Could you even go alternative weeks to each others church? Not ideal, but better then always going to seperate churches.
Ask God to show you what to do, and be open to making changes if God leads you to do that.

[Raymond]

If he is contrite JD, that is something to be thankful for and maybe all you can hope for just now. Just enjoy the present with him. We are all works in progress and these past incidents would have underlined to him that something was not quite right. He probably has a gift there but taken too far perhaps.

[Jimsdarliing]

Oh, my friends! I hope one of you reads this soon! Jim is out of town and I came home to a message on the answering machine from her husband. He seemed to know Jim is out of town and he asked me to call him. I don't want to but am afraid he'll keep calling til he gets me and we don't have caller ID. I'm afraid he'll want to know why I want her out of our lives and I don't want to tell him. If you have any suggestions, please help me! Pray all goes well. I just want this whole mess to go away and take her with it!

[Jimsdarliing]

Is this feed becoming more and more like a soap opera? I'm sorry and I so appreciate you guys hanging in there with me. Well, he called. I tried hard to tell him nothing and to convince him to talk to his wife or Jim about it but I guess the cop in him came out and I finally broke. Pray for their marriage and for ours.

[chosen]

Jims darling. None of this is your fault, so please dont blame yourself. It may be the right thing that it came out and that her husband knows what was going on. They do need to know that there are consequenses to this sort of innappropriate behaviour. In fact I am very surprised that her husband hadnt noticed anything before, or that you were uneasy around her, but men dont seem to be as good at picking these things up as women are.
Did he seem angry?. Had he suspected or noticed anything before this?

By the way it is the middle of the nght in the UK, and thats why you havent had replies(except from me who cant sleep!!!)

[Jimsdarliing]

I realized that after I had written the second note. I was in such a frenzie. I'm sorry you can't sleep. Her husband was very sweet but was upset that I hadn't come to him sooner with this. What's really sad to me is that he's more concerned over losing his best friend than he is over the betrayal. He thinks it can be stopped and we can all be happy, trusting buddies again. I think I've truly forgiven her but I can't see a picture of her that I don't have that cursed note rolling over in my head. Gotta get off to work. Have a great day and . . . maybe you can take a nap? I love them but seldom get one.

[Raymond]

I think now that he knows there are more safeguards built in to prevent it ever happening again with his wife. Obviously it will take a bit of work and forgiveness on your part to mend the relationship, but things have changed I think.

[Jimsdarliing]

I really believe I have forgiven her and I pray for her marriage but how am I supposed to be around them and not wonder if he's dreaming about her? I forgave once, even had them over to dinner a couple of times, and then the cursed note on FB happened. As she has said, she didn't do anything. But she never did anything to stop it. I'd never trust her and would be uneasy around her so what sort of relationship would that be? I want no part of it.

[chosen]

Forgiving someone doesnt have to mean that we see them, or that a past relationship has to be back to what it was. If you feel uncomfortable around her, then dont be around her.The more your husband sees her the longer it may take him to stop thinking of her in the wrong way.In your place I would want to avoid her, at least for the time being. If her husband and your husband are friends, and her husband still wants to keep this friendship then he can come to your house alone, or they can go out alone together at this time.

Maybe, one day you can all be friends again, but that may take a long time.

[Forever]

Jim's Darling,
Chosen has hit on an excellent solution. Just the guys, out by themselves without MFL, or having him over to your house without MFL. I had a feeling that he would eventually figure something out, but this whole thing is not your fault. You have been traumatized by that inordinate relationship and handled it the best way you could.

Additionally, MFL's husband will get his own take on Jims behavior once he spends time with him around other women...he will see him in action through a different lense...especially after his discernment attena's have been raised by this. I am 8 hours behind you I think? In USA...California.

Another thought occured to me. I was married to a cop for twenty years. He was cold, distant, and totally uncommunicative. He loved the few friends he had far more that he would allow himself to love me...and I knew it. He walked away from our marriage and four children without so much as a blink, but grieved the loss of one of his friends for years. This "friend" put the "hit" on me over and over, so I personally ended our friendship with him for that reason, which, my ex husband deeply resented, so much that it ate away at him for years and was the primary reason he left.

I thought I was doing the noble thing for our marriage, he thought I had robbed him of something far more valuable than me. Could that be a part of what is happening to MFL? Does she feel loved or more like a utility in her marriage? If that is the case, her husband will put ALL the blame for this on HER, rather than taking a good look on how Jim was behaving towards her, or how she could have been sucked up into the attention he lavished on her. If she is starving for love, attention, affection ect. then she is very vulnerable....and of course, Jim knows it and takes advantage of that.

Her husband will likely do anything to salvage his relationship with Jim, because if I have it right, he values that more... maybe even at the expense of how you feel having to be around his wife. Dont stand for being around her and especially, Jim. Do what is necessary to save your marriage, and leave MFL and her husband in the hands of the Lord. If there is any backlash or resentment from Jim, you will have to deal with it. He cant be the friend of all, and at the expense of you, especially when it was his own behavior that caused so deep a hurt and breach of trust.

[Jimsdarliing]

Forever, I'm in Texas so I guess I'm a couple of hours ahead of you in time.

Thank you so much (and Chosen and Raymond too) for your responses. You not only help me to purge my heart but you really do open my eyes to a lot of things I hadn't thought of. MFL's husband is quite a different sort of man. While he and Jim have been friends for years and have traveled in the same circuit, Jim has many friends--her husband has Jim. He told me last night that Jim sort of keeps him "grounded." In our conversation, I did all I could to keep the blame off of her and, actually, I did what I could to defend Jim too. However, I don't think (and I ernestly pray that I'm right) that he cares more about Jim than he does her. I could be wrong though . . . please pray for them.

Jim called me last night after I went to bed. I told him I had talked to the husband and he said we'd talk after he gets home tonight. He knows me well enough to know I'm not going to lie so I'm sure he knows what I told the man. Jim's not upset with me but, as I said before, I believe he's contrite. He's called me three times today and he's not a person who loves to talk on the phone.

Thank you again for all your advice. I pray that your fasting and praying is getting the desired results. I wish I were so eloquent with advice as you and could help you as you have me but I do pray for you and thank God for you.

[Forever]

Well, this might seem like a rather stupid question, but I have been wondering if you would indulge me. If you did all you could to keep the blame off of MFL...and did all you could to defend Jim when speaking with the husband, what did that leave him thinking? I am a bit concerned that it may have resulted in minimizing the situation and perhaps everyone will just slowly get back together as if nothing ever happened? What exactly did you say to him then?

Thank you so much for your prayers, time will tell if the fasting and prayer will have the results that are best for my husband, myself, and for what the Lord wants.:)

[Jimsdarliing]

OH, MY!! You could be right! I told him the whole story and left out nothing but added that MFL had not responded but neither had she done anything to stop it. I made it clear that it was me with the problem there because I would never get past the fact that she was never my friend. A friend of mine wouldn't have let all this go on. I also said that Jim didn't really think that much of it--he's had a different sort of life with a different sort of values. But I think I also made it clear that their friendship in any way, shape, or form was over. Jim assured me of this too. I so wish it could all just go away for good.

[Raymond]

If Jim is contrite and has assured you that his friendship with mfl is over, that is a good sign. As Chosen has said forgiveness doesn't necessarily renew a close relationship. It just keeps you from getting bitter and revengful. I think you have so let the light in from all angles that it almost seems impossible for it to ever happen with mfl again.

[Jimsdarliing]

Forever, I think of you often and how much you have helped me through all of this. Every time I think of you though, I say a prayer for you and your husband.. I would think a husband would have to love, adore, and appreciate a wife who would do so much for his love. It's so admirable and beautiful.

I'm afraid you may have been right when you said that my defending MFL and Jim to her husband “may have resulted in minimizing the situation and perhaps everyone will just slowly get back together as if nothing ever happened." I had hoped it was all behind us forever but yesterday Jim told me he had talked to the husband. I don't know who called who but it could be that he heard that Jim has had a couple of surgeries and is recovering from them. The man was offering to help him get our lawn tractor home from the shop and told him that whatever he might need, he’d be there.

I guess her husband is going to just blow it all off. I would think he would be highly indignant that his wife has been hit on by his best friend (if he really believes she was and he did make one remark to insinuate as much to me). I have absolutely no problem with the guys being friends though; I just don’t want it all dismissed.

Another strange thing—I received one of those “forward” emails from her. I don't know if she meant to send it or if she just sent it to everybody on her list and I'm still on it. It was nothing personal though, just usual forwarded stuff but I don’t want her to think I ever want to be her friend again.

I have another concern too. She, her husband, and Jim ride horses for a city's "Sheriff's Posse" (the horse patrol at city events and ball games). I don't do it though. Furthermore, she is more active in it than her husband so sometimes she goes without him. They usually ride in pairs so she and Jim would often team up. There hasn’t been an event in a while but they will start up again. Any advice?

[Forever]

Hi JD,
I am grateful for your prayers and do have some advice for you. It's okay to accept help from Jim's friend...as long as it only between the two of them and at your home. As far as the Posse goes, those days are over for Jim. You are going to have to have a talk with him before the events so you and he can get on the same page regarding that...otherwise, if you wait until the event is in full swing and then spring it on him, you will likely encounter some resistance and it wont be pretty.

The email forwards can be expected because they go out to everyone on the list. If you felt like it, you could ask to be removed from her "forwards".

I dont see any reason why you cannot contact Jim's friend again and ask him if he was clear about the boundaries....that there is a no contact rule in force and that it includes social events. What do you think?

By the way, I cant remember, but do you have access to all of Jim's communication accounts...email, phone, cell FB? If not, you could tell him that you need to have those things until your trust is fully restored and hope he understands. Of course, that wont curtail him opening new accounts that you are not aware of, but it is a start.

[Jimsdarliing]

Hello, Forever . . . I hope things are well with you. I truly appreciate all the advice. I have thought and prayed about it and have decided to just sit on things for now. I don't have access to all his communication accounts but don't want to ask him for them either. We have different cell phone accounts because we both had them before we got married and the home phone doesn't have caller ID. Since he considers the whole matter settled, I'm holding out in faith. Furthermore, I believe MFL will never want to be around me again so I doubt anyone will try to be doing things as couples. She told me she would cut all ties and I think she's good to her word and don't believe she'll allow communications from Jim ever again. She really is a decent woman and she just more or less denied to herself the implications of what was happening because she liked the attention and got caught up in the titillation of flirtation. Jim talks to her husband occasionally and has told me that she and he have been going places and having a great time together. Who knows--maybe all this has helped their relationship. I pray so. Thank you again and please continue praying for us as I will for you.

[Jimsdarliing]

Update. . . . She said she was out of our lives and I thought she was good to her word but I guess not. Sheriff's posse rides tomorrow night and her husband has to work so he calls and asks if Jim could carry a horse for her. Jim did ask me about it and before he would tell her husband he would and what could I say? He also said he wouldn't be riding with her but he'll have to be with her to saddle up. I hate this so badly. I don't want it to all start up again.

[chosen]

Hmmm......isnt there someone else she could ask?I think that maybe you could have suggested that she ask another person who was going, and if not, she could not go. Just my opinion.
Just that as you say, you dont want this to lead to more.
Now that you have agreed though, could you make it clear that this is a once off, and you really dont want this to happen again?

[Forever]

Any reason you cannot go too? You can help her saddle up.:D

[Jimsdarliing]

I really believe it's her husband trying to make everything as it was before. He dropped by one day this week (I guess on his way home from work). i thought I'd let the guys have some time alone and went for a bike ride. When I got out into the driveway, I saw their car was running but I couldn't see inside to tell if she was there or not. I should have known she was because last time he dropped by like this he made it a point to tell us twice that she was in the car. When I got back about 30 minutes later, they were gone. I asked Jim about it and he said he went out to say HI to her.

About the horse issue--before all this came up, a friend and I had already planned on going. It's just that we'll be going in my car and will be enjoying the event while he'll be busy riding/patroling. However, he DID assure me that he'll not be riding with her. I hadn't thought about meeting him there where they'll be saddling up though and appreciate the idea. I'm sure I'll do it. About her husband asking someone else to bring her a horse, they really have no one and I'm sorry for it but I think I will make it clear this is a one time deal. Jim is really understanding now and respects how I feel and what I've been through. Thank you guys so much for the feedback--I don't know what I would do without you. I pray that your lives are as wonderful as you've helped to make mine.

[chosen]

JD
Her husband may be trying to make it all as it was, but it cant be this way Maybe your husband could have a word with him about this?
Its really good that your husband is so understanding and respects ther way you feel now. Thats is VERY good news.
God Bless

[Jimsdarliing]

Well, around noon yesterday her husband called back and told Jim that she had changed her mind and wasn't going to ride. He said she "didn't want to make things any worse." Maybe she really does understand my predicament. You're right too--although I hurt for her and appreciate her sacrifice, this is the only way it can be.

[Raymond]

That's good JD. Normally it might be alright but because of the history and the way your husband can be she has done the right thing.

[Forever]

Hi JD,
My private email is sweetznco@mlode.com

You can contact me off this site there if you ever want to "talk"...however I am leaving for dental work in Mexico this Sat. so Friday and will not have internet during that time.

Take care, and God Bless you
Forever