Classic not in love with you anymore line

[pitbull]

I got the classic line of “im not in love with you anymore” on boxing day.
She went round her mates to get drunk supposedly to get away from me and she didn’t come back until the next day. An almighty row erupted and I told her how dare her up sticks on boxing day just to go to her mates. She said I make her miserable and have done for a long time.

She has previously drunk too much, not looked after herself and put on a lot of weight which lowered her self esteem. I have mentioned on occasions about this but we just argue and now I am being accused of mentally abusing her. I have used the softly softly approach, but that didn’t work and have used the tough love approach but was just more hassle than its worth.

She says she has no life with me and she wants her friends most of the time. Is she going through a mid life crisis? It maybe that we have changed and I am more than happy to have a lovely home life, but she has other ideas.

We have been married 3 years and been together 12. Are both 35 and have 3 amazing children 9,5,4.

I tried to confide in her sister what it was all about and my wife flew off the handle accusing me of causing a rift between her and her family and nearly attacked me in front of our poor children.

Since boxing day I have barely coped, living in car/hotels and relatives.

I tried to give her the space she wanted but my head has been in a spin and I have tried to talk to her. She has brought up all the little things in our relationship that she doesn’t like, which has left me pretty gobsmacked that petty little things has affected the way she feels about me. For example, I moan at her for not unloading the dishwasher, but it doesn’t mean I don’t love her anymore.

I decided to write her a letter as talking to her is practically impossible. In the letter I explained that I was unhappy with the, lack of affection/sex, her grumpiness, the way she didn’t care about herself, her drinking too much, her lack of respect to money, the car and the house and other small things.

She has said that all the things in the letter are just an excuse for my childhood problems. Its like she’s denying any responsibility.

My friends even said that we were made for each other and I believe this is true.

I am completely heartbroken that I didn’t see the writing all the wall earlier and now I believe it is too late. I have said all I have to say in letters and texts.

What do I do next? Be nice to her and hope things work out for the sake of the kids?
I would like to do this approach, but I find it hard to move on unless I am completely detached.

I pay all the bills, she receives incapacity benefit and disability allowance. I need to support myself now and as Im not living there, do I keep on paying the water, electricity, gas, phone etc.

Or do I just accept its over and file for divorce?

[dalesman]

Hi Pitbull
Sorry to hear about your problems. Sending her a letter listing all her faults was probably not the best idea especially if she is suffering from a poor self image and esteem at present. The fact that she chose to spend boxing day away from you and the kids suggests that she is as unhappy about you as you are about her at present. What ever happens now it is important that you calm things down and somehow get to a point where you and your wife are able to talk. You have a lot to discuss and need to be able to talk. As far as paying bills is concerned from a purely legal standpoint you are still responsible for the household bills but the kids are the most important thing here so their needs come first. However you must be able to have enough money to put a roof over your own head even in the short term. In order for you to discuss the future of your marriage , the children's welfare , money and everything else it is vital to reach a point where calm and honest talks can take place. It is important therefore to stay away from playing the blame game at this point.

[Raymond]

I'd let the dust settle for a while. Obviously you cannot talk together just now but talk you need to do without both blowing up. At the moment it is tit for tat. Obviously she is touchy about being told anything and is giving it back to you. Both of you really need to think before you speak just now. I don't see why you should need to move out and do nbot think that is a good idea. You are the home person and you are paying the bills also.

Maybe things came to a head and with the drinking as well it all spilled out. If you were nagging too much you need to see that and also to see what can be done about it. It is not much of a home life with someone nagging all the time if that is the case.

It is not good for our spouses to get angry but sometimes if we listen they give away what is really bugging them and we can hide it away and learn some truths from it perhaps. I'm sure it is not all you but only you can do what you need to do.

With regard to your marriage I wouldn't give up that quickly. It is certainly time to think things through to see what changes can be tried for. A lot will depend on how she feels when the dust has settled but don't end it unless she does. These are times that can bring change where some good things can be learned perhaps. So long as she is not being unfaithful things are fixable.

Raymond

[Raymond]

I didn't see your reply Dalesman. You must have posted while I was writing. You are making good points. Funny how we agree on calming things down - letting the dust settle.

I didn't pick up the point about listing all her bad points. That can be fatal. Can you not make a list of her good points? Do you only see the negative in her. I don't think any of us have the right to list all the bad points of somebody else. The trick is to encourage the good points. People need encouragement for the good that is in them and we all have it.

Raymond

[Helen_uk]

Wholeheartedly agree with both the gentlemen above ..In fact was thinking the same and about to post when I read their posts to you.

One thing that does stand out is that you both seem to be doing a lot of talking and not much listening. Conversation and discussion means doing a bit of both... Maybe once things have calmed down you could both try this ? Apportioning blame won't achieve anything pitbull... You need solutions not a slanging match.

If I received a letter from my partner outlining all my faults I think my response would probably be the same as your wife's and I'd be pretty annoyed !

Not sure how long these problems have been building up but Boxing day was only 2 weeks ago so it does seem a bit soon to start thinking about filing for divorce. I'm not saying at all that her disappearing on Boxing day was the right thing to do but some people , when they find it difficult to talk about how they're feeling , run away . Do you think your wife feels she's being listened to ? Do you ?

Helen

[pitbull]

Wow, what an eye opener!

Your replies are really appreciated.

You're right, we're both blaming each other for our unhappiness and the reason for the letter was to describe my feelings, which I find hard to do sometimes. I did mention in the letter how beautiful she was and what an amazing person she was, but I barely recognise her now.

I have listened to her about all my faults, but she has not listened to me as her mind has been poisoned by her toxic mates!

I believe it is fixable as she has yet to mention that she doesn't love me. She's said I'm not in love with you, but that's different. She said that it had to happen this way and it's the right decision at the moment. So really she has not said it's the end explicity.

We spoke this morning and I think reality is starting to sink in to her, now she realises what little money she will be left with. We are having crunch talks on Friday after I told her that we need to calm down, stop playing tit for tat and sort it out.

Many thanks for your advice.

Will keep you updated.

[dalesman]

Hi Pitbull,
I think in every relationship there will always be some things that intensely annoy us about our partners and things we would like to change in them if we could, but we love them for the person they are and not the person we would like to change them into. Of course people do change and sometimes develop habits such as excess drinking and unwise friendships. But in situations like this I think it is wise to discreetly look for the root causes of these changes and see if anything can be done to address these rather than ranting on about what annoys us. You say she is realising how little money she will be left with , well a word of caution my friend , if she is on incapacity and has children and you have a decent income then you will be surprised at how well off she might be as a divorced mother. You can bet your bottom dollar her friends will be giving her all the advice she needs on this subject. Besides this, staying together for financial reasons does not seem to be the basis for a successful relationship. I do hope that your talks on Friday go well and you don't feel that you have been lectured to . I just say it as I see it.

[Raymond]

I think you speak good sense Dalesman as always.

Well done Pitman for how you are handling it. Dalesman is right. The relationship should not be based on money anyhow, although being hard up may make her think more clearly about why she is acting as she is.

The so called friends do appear to be a bad influence. I hope she will realise this, but you cannot fight it. She has to see it. I think you just have to use all the opportunities you have now to confirm your love to her and encourage the good things that are there but not berating her on the bad things. Most people are only too aware of their bad traits and don't need us to put in our bit. Things can be said in love to be helpful but not the nagging and pulling down type of thing which just brings condemnation.

I hope you are able to fix this and reconcile. The sooner the better really.

Raymond

[Helen_uk]

I think it hinges on whether you both think your marriage is worth saving. If it is then you'll need to find some common ground to talk on...

If something she's doing is a real worry or bug bear then obviously you have to mention it, but try doing it in a non critical way. It's all in the phrasing ! Conversly though you also have to be able to let her express any worries or concerns she has about you or your relationship . Hopefully you'll both find that by calming things down you can start to really talk things through and see if there's a chance of saving your marriage.

Even if there isn't, you have kids together and they do have to come first , so if you do have to part you both need to act like adults and try not to let your bitterness toward each other spill over on to them. If you split and they remain with your wife in the marital home I should imagine you'll be expected to pay a reasonable amount for their upkeep ( and I'm sure you'd want to anyway ) , that would be the time to seek legal advice though hopefully it won't come to that just yet.

The phrase " I love you but... " crops up a lot on here and can mean lots of different things , sometimes that the person saying it wants out but commonly that they are letting out feelings on how they feel " right now " and that could be caused by many things including a lack of confidence or feeling there is a problem but they don't know how to deal with it. Sometimes focusing on the positives rather than the negatives can change that feeling.

Good luck !

Helen

[Ageing Grace]

You're getting very insightful replies here, Pitbull. I agree with them completely.

While you're thinking about them, I'd like to ask you to consider something your wife said: She has said that all the things in the letter are just an excuse for my childhood problems.

Was one of your parents very critical of the other? Did you, somehow, end up with the idea that your partner's job is to please you - and, if they don't, then they are "wrong"? You sound bitter & angry. Where does that come from?

Somewhat more brutally than the others, I get the impression from your posts that you don't even like your wife very much. If that isn't true, please give some thought to how a man would talk to a wife he does like and love. What are the differences?

Your example was interesting: For example, I moan at her for not unloading the dishwasherIf she hasn't been able to unload the dishes, might that mean she's had a bad day? Could you have asked how she was - and unloaded the machine yourself?

I do wish you luck but think you have some hard work to do.

In the meantime, you must take care of yourself. Find somewhere safe to live, eat proper food, wash & brush etc. Can you stay with somebody for a few weeks?

AG

[pitbull]

To all that have taken time to reply, you have asked some searching questions that are making me think long and hard.

AG
Yes, when I was little my father abused my mother and this was because of drink. She has stood by him to this day. My father was very critical, everything had to be perfect, like put your shoes away, tidy your room, where's my dinner.

I'm not in anyway condoning this behaviour, I'm quite ashamed of it, and like to think that I'm not like that. But it looks like I am in a way. I don't how to address this issue.

I don't like my wife much at the moment, even more for chucking me out away from the kids and I know for sure that her mates are saying you're better off without him, but I love her dearly, more than anything in the world . I have asked why can't we sort it out, but she just says I don't know anymore and won't even bother to talk to me.

I admit that when I come in from a long day at work, stuck on the M25 for hours on end and then come home to an untidy house, it does make me annoyed. I need to just understand and take a chill pill.

I am trying to take care of myself, but I just feel like I am in limbo, being dangled over the side of the boat waiting to be saved or thrown in!

[Raymond]

You must keep your spirits up Pitbull.

I understand how you feel about her not pulling her weight but she obviously has her own issues. It is difficult for you to deal with your background but we all start from a certain kind of soil but the outcome doesn't have to be bad.

My parents were divorced at my birth and I grew up in various orphanges so I did have to work through a lot of stuff, especially relationships rejection and so on. With God's help and only with God's help I have overcome and am overcoming. We need not be limited to the soil we came from. When you overcome even the negative things can be turned to a strength amazingly enough.

I think you really need to go home and work it through. Does she have the right to kick you out? Do you not pay the mortgage? I would go home and face the worse. You have recognised where you might have control issues or negative criticm so you will be changing as a person. If she wants to live in a tip you have to let it go. It doesn't seem to bring the best out in her to criticise. Anyone who gets drunk has their own problems. It is better to be happy with a bit of untidiness than have a perfect house with contentions. My house is never perfect. I used to point out that there were cobwebs now I just deal with them. She doesn't see them but I know she means well in everything she does and she has certain strengths that I don't have even if it's not housework. You have an opportunity to do some good to another human being. Use it.

Raymond

[pitbull]

I have taken all of your advice on board and written a heart felt letter to my wife describing how we used to laugh, the memories we had together, the tough decisions we faced and anchored in there how I got to love her and all the good things that made me fall in love with her and have 3 children.

I have also described in there my childhood memories of my abusive father whom controlled my mother, mentally and physically abused her and made her life a misery. It may well be that some of problems stem from this, but I have now bared my soul to her, which she sort of knew anyway, but this is a lot deeper.

I am basically holding my hands up now, saying it was me who made you unhappy, made you drink, tried to control you, tried to turn her into something I wanted, not she wanted. I have put myself first in my marriage, not been there when she has been sick, thinking work more important, always got myself the latest trendy gadgets, clothes, watches, car etc. But not her, I controlled her spending, I controlled her shopping. OMG! I sound like a complete monster.

This has truly been life changing for me and has opened up my eyes more than I could of ever imagined. Now I just need to convey this to my wife and say how deeply sorry I am.

I have not yet finished it and I'm not sure how to end it and put the ball in her court. She says she doesn't want to be pressured, but on the other hand, I am in limbo.

Do I put a date on the letter on when to tell me by? Like the end of January? To tell em that she does have feelings for me and is willing to give the marriage another go or just I leave it open ended?

Also, because of the children, she wants me to stay in the marital home that she kicked me this weekend whilst she stays at friends. I find it quite hurtful going back seeing all the memories. Am I just being paranoid or would you feel the same?

[Helen_uk]

If it were me... I'd leave it open ended , don't exert pressure. You've done a very brave and lovely thing in admitting your own faults , being open and honest and apologising for your part in things best now to give her time to digest that.

Her going to stay with friends is probably not the best thing for you , especially if you feel those friends are the ones making things worse, but again it seems to be her choice. On a practical note you have nowhere else to live and she does so it needs some careful thinking about. Maybe you could add to the letter and say it really isn't what you want, and that the children need her to be there but if it's what she really wants then you will move back in for their sakes ?

[Raymond]

You have done very well reaching this point Pitbull. The letter is no pressure as it is baring your soul. I wouldn't put a date on it for a reply. Leave it open ended as Helen says. The main thing is you are putting across some good and honest things. You cannot do more than that. If she honestly takes it in she will reply, but you have to leave it after that.

It is fairly common for children to pick up a control spirit from a controlling parent and where you can find yourself with the same issues. You can get help. I know places where they know about this if you were interested.

My feeling is that you should stay in the home. If she leaves it is up to her, but you and the children will be the anchor if she wants it. This is a storm but it could end well. It is still early days. If you want to change people encourage the good but don't harp about the bad. If you have to criticise always do it in love for their benefit in exceptional circumstances not for your benefit.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Pitbull, what a pity you've had to come to such a crisis to get a new perspective on yourself - and what a fantastic thing you have done, in gaining that perspective so quickly and recognising yourself.

The letter to your wife is a positive, and courageous, move in every way. I don't think you should state any timeframes or fixed objectives, that would be controlling in a way. Try, instead, to invite a dialogue where she gets a chance to see if you're learning how to listen :)

I'm sad to hear about your childhood; it must have been frightening and horrid for a little boy. It is difficult to face what really happened and how it's affected the adults we became (my parents were similar to yours). If you decide to look into this further - now or later - please post in here and I'll give you some links. You have my sympathy and best wishes.

AG

[dalesman]

I agree Raymond , putting a time limit in the letter could in itself be seen as a form of control and an attempt to control the agenda. The big problem as I see it is if you do get back together. There were things that she was doing that you were very unhappy with . Getting her to change without been controlling is going to be tricky.

[Ageing Grace]

Getting her to change without been controlling is going to be tricky.

Dalesman, I think the problem is not "getting her to change" but releasing the pressure upon her. It seems Pitbull has a better understanding of how this works, fortunately!

When someone close tries to "change" you, they are effectively proving they don't find you good enough for them - yet, they set up home with you and had a family with you. This is extremely confusing, can utterly destroy your confidence and causes great misery.

I'm astonished you said that. How would you feel if your partner didn't like anything you did, said or were? How do you imagine you'd feel if they then altered their tactics, but continued "getting you to change" - would it make you feel better about them??

I am quite sure she'll be a far better person, now that pressure has gone. I'm also sure Pitbull recognises this :)

AG :mad:

[pitbull]

Thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart.
I've had a pretty bad day. Spoke to her just now. She's seen a solicitor this morning and she told me that she doesn't know whether there is any hope of saving the marriage. I'm really down now. What do I do to get through these dark times?

Your suggestions would be appreciated.

[pitbull]

The solicitor said that Im not allowed to sell the house until kids 18. I can put the house onto interest only, but I dont want to. I have to make £1000 per month child maintenance. The mortgage is in joint names. She says she can't afford half the mortgage. She receives incapacity benefit, disability allowance, and child benefits.

I am seeing a solicitor next week. Looks like I've just got to accept that it's over and make a new start, without the one person I cherish dearly.

Any advice would be welcome

[Ageing Grace]

What a disappointment :(

I'd be surprised if you have to pay £1k/month maintenance - unless you get £5k/month, in which case you can afford it. If £1,000 is what it costs to keep your family going, it would be morally right to pay that, but you need to see an expert as you say. You could also check with the CSA (https://secureonline.dwp.gov.uk/csa/v2/en/calculate-maintenance.asp).

When you're separated, new rules will kick in about housing benefit. She doesn't get it at the moment because you're able to pay the mortgage, however you now need 2 homes. All or part of your responsibility for the mortgage interest will be released and housing benefit will pay her share (interest only).

I still think it's a good idea to give her your letter, and let her know how much you appreciate what she's done & what you've put her through. It might not be too late for that - plus, it'll do you good to say those things.

All the best.

[pitbull]

Many thanks AG, have a nice weekend

[dalesman]

AG
just to clarify, in a previous post I did say that we love people for who they are and not what we want to change them into. However Pitbull had mentioned things such as excess drinking which can never be good. I think there are occasions when a partner is doing things that are hurting a relationship, when trying to influence change is justified.

[Raymond]

The drinking could be a reaction to the control or maybe not. I thought AG made good sense here.

Anyway main point is you Pitbull. I hope you get the letter to her as AG suggested. Once you are fighting each other through solictors it can become very difficult but you have to defend yourself.

It seems that you have to believe for the best but be ready for the worse.

Raymond

[pitbull]

Afternoon all

Turned up at house on Saturday, mum-in-law was there. Was frightened whether she would put her oar in and tell me off for how I treated her daughter, but I think my wife just told her we don't get on any more.

Well, everything was amicable, talking about my son's 6th birthday next week. Wife went to stay at her mums so I could look after the kids on my own. She texted and phoned to see how kids were, but didn't mention me once. I gave her the letter and left it at that.

She got home Sunday, completely blanked me, I didn't rise to the bait and just walked out saying goodbye to the kids. She then came to the door to see me go, half expecting me to say something and me hoping that she would say something.

I put on a sad smile and just drove off.

She has called me today asking whether I could have the kids next Friday while she goes out with her friends. I told her not a problem.

I haven't mentioned the letter, nor has she.

What does this tell me?

All I want is an honest chat, to talk about our relationship, where it went wrong what can we do to put it right. Before in the relationship, she was very loving and couldn't imagine life without me. She always told me that she loved me, but I think it was just her figure of speech, and I know she loves me deep down as we are soulmates and what hurts is that I feel I've lost my best friend, I mean really. Ever since she got back from a weekend away with her mates, she's been a different person. She even said that she feels like she's her old self, laughing joking and life and soul of the party. This is what attracted me to her. Is she having an identity crisis?

However, I might be paranoid but, on Friday, I told her we were selling our car in order to downsize and save money. This will be a big downsize for her! I will only give her £3K to get another car. She then mentioned, that a male friend of hers, who owns a garage could get her one. DING!! She mentioned this guy is happily married and ugly. However, when she got back from this weekend in October 2009, she mentioned that she met one of her mates ex's and how he made her laugh.

I can't bare to think about it at the moment. I know she hasn't cheated. But it's putting thoughts into my mind.

Hmmmm...

[Ageing Grace]

Oh dear, Pitbull, I'm sorry to hear about this extra (potential) problem. It does look like a worry!

It's a disappointment that your letter hasn't received a response yet. When you say she's been like a different person since her weekend away, would that be the weekend in October or the one after Christmas? Did you mean she's seemed happier or more miserable?

I really do feel for you. You seem stuck at an impasse right now, waiting for her to announce her next move. I suppose she won't agree to go for couples counselling with you?

This must be so hard for you - and for your kids. Please try to stay as calm and as healthy as possible. You need personal support now, so don't forget your mates ...

Best wishes,
AG

[pitbull]

Thanks for taking the time to respond AG, I really appreciate it. Yes, it was from the weekend away in October that she sort of found herself again.

I have mentioned counselling but she keeps on saying that she doesn't want to be pressurised. She mentioned it before 6 months ago as we were having problems, but I was stubborn and didn't listen. Oh dear!

I'm probably reading too much into this other person, but it does make your mind tick over.

Yes, I don't know what to do. I'm just playing it cool at the moment, as I have cried my heart out to her last week and that's when she said that she doesn't know whether there's any hope and also she said she hasn't missed me. Which hurt very much.

The past couple of days she has phoned me to talk about kids and that's it, so I don't even want to mention us yet. However, I have my last trump card to play........

I want to ask her out to dinner, one evening in about two weeks time to talk about things, but really it's for me to confess my undying love for her and to present her with a special gift. I've tried everything else, but actions do speak louder than words and I know she has mentioned in the past about this special gift she has always wanted.

I will then know whether there is any future, as this will be most of my savings, which I don't care if she then accepts.

Take care

[jellybean28]

I want to ask her out to dinner, one evening in about two weeks time to talk about things, but really it's for me to confess my undying love for her and to present her with a special gift. I've tried everything else, but actions do speak louder than words and I know she has mentioned in the past about this special gift she has always wanted.

Be careful here pitbull, this could bacfire and also make her feel pressuriesed into coming back, for the wrong reasons, which will only set you up for more hurt down the track.

Start doing things for yourself, go the pub with some mates, join the gym or somehthing. At the moment she is seeing a needy man, who yes loves her, but is begging for her love and affection (sorry for sounding so harsh). If she won't go to councelling with you, go on your own, it will help you.

Shame she won't respond to your letter my ExH refused to respond to any that I sent him, by writing to him I gave him an easy way to tell me how he felt, without having to worry about tears or an argument. :(

Try to take one day at a time and make sure you are looking after yourself

JB xx

[Helen_uk]

It's hard to say if taking your wife out and buying her that special gift will have the desired effect pitbull.. but I'm inclined to think not in her present state of mind. I think JB is probably right and she'll see it as pressure.

You gave her a letter in which you poured out your heart and she hasn't responded.. either she's thinking it over , didn't read it or has decided that she isn't interested . You have no way of knowing which so give it a little more time .

You left the ball in her court, now hard as it is you have to leave it there . JB is right again, you need to start doing things for YOU , working on your own self confidence will make you feel better and have the side effect of making you more attractive. I also think it might give you some much needed support.

Have you any hobbies ? Can you join a local group or team ? A gymn ? At the moment it seems your life is filled with waiting for your wife to respond. Take some pressure off yourself and do something you'll enjoy or at least will be a distraction.

Think long and hard before booking that table and be good to yourself.

Helen x

[pitbull]

Yes, you're right, it will be too much pressure, but I just wanted to show her how much she means to me. Re the letter. I really don't know what to think. I know she's a soppy old sod and does love being swooned, either by flowers, poems or a romantic meal, which makes me even more confused why she hasn't said anything about the letter yet. Surely she can't be that cold and heartless? Thats not the girl I know.

Thanks for all your support, I have been going to the gym and looking after myself. We have my sons birthday next week, where we are all going to the cinema. So I will buy some new clothes and feel confident about myself, but I have that nagging doubt that we will just be talking like friends, i.e. about the kids and nothing else, where really I want to talk about us!!

This is SO damn hard.

[Helen_uk]

I think in this situation all the old " rules " go out of the window . Your wife has pulled back emotionally and may not appreciate being wooed in this way now... However you know her, so it's a judgement call on your part .

It maybe that she's showing you this side because having made a decision in her own mind she isn't prepapred to cope with you now showing your romantic side. It's really very hard to know. Maybe she's worried you'll be able to sway her so it's easier to be " cold ".

Talking about the kids though is keeping the communication going pitbull and that has to be a good thing doesn't it?

Helen

[Ageing Grace]

Backing up Jelly & Helen.

At the moment, Pitbull, she has an image of you in her mind - moaning, being arsey, not caring how she feels etc. Her priority is to discover life doesn't have to be that way; that she has a right to be free and happy (which she does).

Your letter was a good move but it probably takes more than one letter to undo X years of what went before. If you're to succeed in letting her see you really have changed, then naturally it will be the changes she sees that make a difference.

Dinner & gifts are nice, but anybody can do that for one evening! It might even be what you did when you first got together ... then look what happened :(

Continuing self-care, a more optimistic attitude, greater tolerance, better fathering and so on are the things that mark the "new improved Pitbull". Keep this up, and she will start believing you. Added to which, your relationship with your children will become better & more secure, and you will feel 100% better about life in general.

It's a win-win approach. Whereas an expensive gift is win-lose - not even particularly good odds, either.

Are we making sense?

AG :)

[pitbull]

Another thing playing on my mind is my accomodation and financial status. I am currently living at my parents which I don't want to for too long for a) I want my own space, b) if I have my own rented place then my kids can come over and stay.

Therefore, I would rather get this sorted sooner rather than later but I don't want to put unwanted pressure on my wife.

What's the best way to approach this?

[Raymond]

Don't know what you mean. Are you accepting a permanent seperation? Why should it affect her where you live?

Raymond

[pitbull]

Basically I'm paying all the bills and mortgage at the moment and I can't afford two homes. So I want to get the financial stuff out of the way sooner rather than later so that I can live in rented accomodation and have my kids come and stay.

It looks we'll be separated.

Am seeing solicitor tomorrow to see where I stand legally and financially.

[Raymond]

I see. Basically you have accepted the seperation and now want to sort out the mortgage. You can either sort this out voluntarily between you in an amicable way or go the legal route through the courts.

A solictor should be able to handle the voluntary way or the legal way. The voluntary way can be very quick but the legal way can take months I think.

Others may have more experience of this.

Raymond

[jellybean28]

Hi pitbull

Not sure where you live here in Australia, if you can sort out the settlement with your wife and her lawyer without going to court, you can save a lot of money, when things go to court the only people that win are the lawyers.

In my case I left the marital home, and left pretty much everything behind as H wanted most of the stuff, we were in a position where I could buy new furniture, this suited me. I got a fresh start while he and OW are now using what was once my stuff, including the pots and pans. To be honest I don't know how she can do it, living in a house full of the ExWife's tastes and memories. :rolleyes:

[pitbull]

Update.

A mixed weekend. Met wife on Friday lunchtime, after I saw a solicitor in the morning, to sort out finances which went as well as expected. I asked about the letter I sent, and she said it was very nice thank you. We chatted, talked about me renting somewhere, I mentioned about a holiday with us and the kids, she liked the idea.

She then left to go into London to meet some friends and of course to get drunk and let off steam. I texted her at tea time to see whether she got there OK, and got no reply, texted once more, but still no reply.

She woke up Saturday round her friends with a hangover and we chatted about her night. She came back to the marital home to pick some stuff up and was then very cold towards me and didn’t even say goodbye to me, only the kids.

She went on her merry way and me and the kids went swimming and then pizza hut. I texted her to say why is she being cold toward me, its like she’s not interested in me anymore, she phoned right back to give an excuse that she is hungover. She asked whether she could come to pizza hut and I said no problem and was looking forward to all of us sitting down. We chatted and laughed about her night, she made a couple of rude phone calls and then left. I felt pretty low at this point but put on a brave face.

She goes to her mums, she says good night to the kids and that’s it. Doesn’t ask how I am or what Ive been doing. She gets home Sunday and doesn’t feel great so I make her something to eat, said to her go and lie down I’ll look after the kids. She appreciated this. We chatted and I mentioned about getting a flat and spending lots of money furnishing it, when what if we give it a go, then there will be no need as it will be a waste of money.

She asked whether I would like to stay for Sunday dinner. I had other plans and don’t want to confuse kids anymore than necessary.

Got a crap phone call later saying “thanks very much look what you’ve done”. I put my middle one to bed half hour later than the youngest and he was now playing up. She said that they both go to bed at the same time. I never listen apparently, I said sorry.

Very confused after this and didn’t sleep much last night as my mind is playing havoc with me.

This past week I have been the perfect husband, asking her how she is, what shes been doing, brought her flowers on Friday, said that she could use my car for the weekend as its more economical, cared for her yesterday and all I get is coldness, unless she wants something, and no thanks for anything.

At the moment shes got her perfect life. Money, babysitter every weekend, this is going to change as I need a life too, and her own space. I feel this may wear off pretty fast and I am doing everything to be nice to her. Even agreed to baby sit on Friday so she can go out clubbing and also take the kids bowling on Saturday while she nurses her hangover.

I feel there’s a balance between overly nice and then being taken for a mug.

I also feel me being in the marital home is not helping me heal and move on, as all the memories are there and I cant get her out of my head when Im there, but Im doing it for the kids until I get somewhere of my own. The kids even ask “are you back for ever now daddy?” This bloody hurts.

Any advice/thoughts would be welcome.

[pitbull]

Got my sons birthday today. He is 6. Looking forward to tonight. Hopefully wife will want me to help put the kids the bed and then maybe we can chat. Fingers crossed!
Will keep you updated

[pitbull]

Another thing that is playing on my mind is whether there is someone else involved. She goes to her friends every week for a so called "chinese". Don't know where she sleeps as no spare beds and can't really sleep on sofa as she has a back problem. Very cold towards me, seems like her mind is on something or someone else, in pizza hut her phone rang and instead of answering it at the table then walking off for privacy, she looks at the phone then gets up straight away ands then answers it.

She's not the sort to have an affair but she is very friendly with everyone and she did mention someone that she texts when I said about selling the car, as he could get her one. She met this bloke, one of her friends ex's after her weekend away in October. They may have been in contact but is something more happening now that we are not together?

Do I ask her whether there is someone else?
Hmmmm, tricky situation

[JWD]

I think you need to lay down some rules. She can't simply come and go as she pleases. Show her that you are no doormat. At the moment, she is getting what she wants but just gradually put your foot down. Don't be at her beck and call.

You need to try withdraw a bit so prtect yourself. Din't keep texting her, once is enough, if no reply thats just rude and immature so don't keep doing it.

I don't want to upset you further but I dodn't think my ex was the type either.

I know its horrible situation to be in but don't move out. If you are looking to save your marriage then better chance if you are under the safe roof

[dalesman]

Pitbull,
I think the time has come for you to make some decisions instead of just waiting for your wife to call all the shots. As you said in a recent post your wife has a perfect life at the moment whilst you provide money, cooking and babysitting duties.

It looks as if she is managing you in order to preserve her lifestyle at present. You are desperately unhappy and the situation you are in is intolerable to you. From both a practical and an emotional perspective you have every right to want the present situation to end either one way or another.

It does sound as though she is probably seeing someone and yes most of us once thought our partners were " not that type " but I cannot see the point of asking her out right as you may not get an honest answer anyway.

In previous threads you do seem to be almost accepting that things are over,What advice did your solicitor give you regarding leaving your house ?

[pitbull]

Well that was an eventful evening.

Driving to my sons birthday party wife phones up and asks how long I will be as son looking forward to his present. She asks whether I would like some dinner. How thoughtful I thought, just like the wife I know.

Had a great time with my son playing with his new toy, wife looked good and we chatted. A couple of her friends were there with their children and we got on OK.

Wife was bathing the children and my suspicions got the better of me and I checked her phone.

She said she was seeing a friend on Friday to go to a cocktail party. Message from said friend read “About Friday, I will meet you for a drink first before I go to the restaurant”.

After I read this me heart sank. To me and probably anybody else, this would mean that her friend is meeting her then going somewhere else, whilst she is with someone else in the meantime.

I asked her outright, she was confused, said why am I checking up on her, I said I’ve got every right to. She was very angry that I checked her phone and I said about my suspicions, cold towards me, seems like her mind is elsewhere, going to her same friends every week, secret phone calls in pizza hut, texts from male friend while we were together, male friend mentioned he could get her a car (after we had split up she slipped up on this). She denied all of this.

I drove off shaking uncontrollably and she tried to ring me 5 times. I got home and we chatted for an hour. She called me deceitful and why can’t I trust her. I said to her that things are now different and I have every right to know. I asked her to tell the truth, she denied there was someone else and I believe her funny or not. But things just don’t add up I said. She was unsure of what was happening Friday night, she has been very emotional lately and hormonal, she even said that she has been for a scan on her womb as she has been bleeding non stop. I asked why she had never said any of this before and she said she had many months ago. We had a good chat and I said about counselling, not to the fix the marriage but so we can have a better relationship for the kids sake, she thought it was a good idea. I asked her outright how she felt about me and she said she doesn’t know how she feels as its still too soon ( 1 month now). I asked her what she wants from the future and she doesn’t know, I said well, I would like to reconcile, move back home, be a better husband, father, everything the person I wasn’t previously and said about a new home and if we get through this, then our love would be deeper than ever. She cried at this point. So did I.

I feel like I’ve messed up and wished I never checked her phone. I have been feeling really good lately, but also I have so many unanswered questions and I need to move on for my own health’s sake.

I phoned her this morning and she is not very good. I asked her out for dinner next week for just an informal chat and won’t even mention us. She agreed to this.

What I’m having a hard time getting round, is if nothing is said then nothing gets fixed, we just carry on doing our own thing which will just make us drift apart. We need to get to counselling sooner rather than later, just so we both understand what each other is going through.

I really do believe something is there but last night has just put us back a couple of weeks, as that’s how long it has been since our last proper chat.

Lastly, I may have some financial bad news for us both. I am applying for an interest only mortgage, but in order to get a good rate you need to have a good Loan To Value amount, which we do have. However, the lenders base their valuation on comparables, not estate agent valuations. This may mean that it is not feasible to get an interest only option as the monthly payments, instead of being half of what they are now, would only be about £100 cheaper.

This would leave us with three options:

1. I stay at parents until we get back together, could be a long time.
2. I move back in and we lead separate lives
3. She will have no alternative to sell the house as I wouldn’t be able to afford two homes.

Dalesman

I am classified as a high earner and therefore I would be expected to contribute towards the mortgage, pay child maintenance and most probably spousal maintenance. It would leave me with not a lot, well not as much as I have been used to, but the solicitor said that that is a lot for a single person when Job seekers allowance is £60 per week. Now I can understand the Fathers For Justice protest!
It may well be that in order to protect my income I will have to rent a similar property to the one I was previously in, so the kids see it as a home from home, and that would leave me with about £500 to live on, after paying child maintenance, and all my bills.

[dalesman]

pitbull
The reason I asked about the solicitor was that In my experience you need expert advice before you make decisions. I found it very reassuring to talk with someone who was an expert. However I think its a mistake to base your decisions on purely financial grounds. Today I was talking to someone who,s relationship has been dreadful for many years. This person no longer even wants to love their partner again, but they have decided that they would rather be unhappy than poor. It seems such a waste of a life to me. Fortunately when I divorced I didn't have the maintenance problem as I had my children. I just paid my ex half the equity in the house.

[pitbull]

Update:

Going to the marital home tonight to baby sit while she goes out. Am doing it for the kids sake and then taking them bowling for my sons birthday and then dropping them off tomorrow night so I can have some me time.

I'm thinking that I should stop staying at the home for my own good as cant have them at my parenst every weekend, I know it will hurt the children, but it may mean that she realises that she can't come and go as she pleases.

Any response to my last updates would be greatly appreciated. Pretty please.

Got paid yesterday and went and bought a whole new wardrobe, which I will be turning up in tonight. Feeling pretty good!

[koliver0821]

Hey Pitbull,

The one piece of advice that I've gotten from day one. (here and my own local support group) is you need to take care of yourself. Kuddos on recognizing who number one is (or 1a and 1b considering you have kids!)

I too have been wrestling what is the right course of action for myself with regards to my situation to my wife. she needs space, I need to give it to her but I need to be near her and the kids.

my wife hid her affair from me very well. Though, some little cracks in her stories were always there but I didnt fully recognize it. She had good answers for my questions that felt honest. Luckily for me, my wife got caught by someone close to the guy she was seeing. (A friend of the guys wife saw them kissing at the one time that they met... supposedly) or it could have been worse.

It sounds like you really do love your wife though at times, I can feel contempt for her as well. Its natural to feel that way when someone you love is not responding. I see that you have taken some steps to look back at what you have done in the past that might cause her to look elsewhere. All I can say is that if you love unconditionally, you will feel better. It may not work out for you as a couple. However, it will work out for you as an individual.

[pitbull]

Thanks for taking time to respond, appreciate the support. Now babysitting while wife out enjoying herself, with her friends or a significant other. She looked amazing when i turned up and i complimented her that she blew me away! She thanked me for noticing her. What she didi say when i confronted her earlier in the week which reassured me that she wasnt seeing someone else was that she would rather jump off a bridge than have a man in her life right now. I will be leaving some articles for her to read in her own time from divorce busting.com
,

[koliver0821]

Pitbull,

I dont want to burst the bubble for you. But I wouldn't look for re-assurances from that standpoint. In fact, I heard the exact same line when I was half joking to my wife when I confronted my wife about her experience online with the scum she ended up having an "emotional affair" with. She told me time and time again that this guy wasnt her type and even laughed at the suggestion that she would feel anything for this guy. Im a pretty clean cut guy with a good education and a fairly good job. This guy, was married, had tons of tattoos that my wife has said time and time again that she didnt like and wasn;t exactly a clean cut person.

Again, I dont want to hurt your feelings. I think the biggest part is that you love her unconditionally. Notice everything. True, dont be a doormat either. Even if you dont have plans for the weekend, make some thing up about work and spend that time taking care of yourself. Im not saying go out and find the first beautiful lady that comes to your eye. (Though working on your game might help your self esteem too!) But make sure your doing well and positive.

I started by showering my wife with attention and showing her how much I love her. I realized for awhile that I wasnt doing that enough and for that I am truly blaming myself for. I just wasn;t able to because I really didnt love myself. That ended two days ago. I guess in around about way, Im telling you to talk to her about letting her go. I dont know anything about your wife and any of the background about your experiences that may have led to this so this all could be hogwash. But be true to yourself and the only thing that will truly occur is you feeling bliss. You will know you did everything you could do and if it doesnt work for your wife, it will work out for you and the next lady that you feel for.

[pitbull]

Update:

Had an excellent time with Kids on Saturday bowling. Wife tried to ring me twice before 10.30am and was on her way back after her night out, she said that she wanted to wish that we have a great time, but we had already left. I would of thought that she would still be in bed nursing a hangover, but much to my surprise she wasn't.

Went out on Saturday and had a good time at the casino, won a bit of money and treated myself yesterday. Had to drop something off at the home and her mates were there with their children, giving her support or plotting against me! I said hello and was totally blanked by her friends.

9 kids were in the house, I didn't say anything but what I did notice was my heart felt letter on the side, most probably she had shown her mates. I put one wish on that letter and that was not show it to anyone as very personal stuff in it. Hmmmmm, did she show them?

I dropped off some money too for my son's other birthday treat to the cinema this week which she thanked me for. Also curious, one of her friends was interested in my financial status regarding something im selling, which is none of her business. Interesting stuff, are they plotting to take everything off me that I've worked hard all my life for?

Koliver:

I am emotionally moving on and trying to let go, but something is niggling me that I believe she still has feelings for me and it would be a waste just to let go forever. BUt I understand where you're coming from. How much do I let go?

Hope you all had a good weekend.

[koliver0821]

dont give up. I am not saying that. Make sure she gives you something back. What I can tell you about my situation was that after I poured my soul to her, she was still giving me signs that she loved me. Maybe it wasn't the sign I was craving at the time but even the small contact during the day that we would have. So I pressed forward with loving more. I felt in my heart I hadn't shown my wife the attention that she truly deserved.

In a round about way, im saying, it takes two to tango. You need to reconnect with her on an emotional level. I've seen post that suggest that you are looking at this in practical senses. I decided I wasn't going to envision a future with out my wife. And what was better is that I got my wife to start thinking of a future with me as well.

You need to get the underlying reasons why she feels that way she does about your love. You also have to be prepared to be hurt. Or even devastated. You really do need communication. Set up a date night with her. Treat every day as day that you will try and show her how much she means to you emotionally and spiritually.

[pitbull]

Ive done what you said, tried to set up a date with her. I texted her and asked if she would like to go out for a civilised chat to a nice restaurant and asked her to let me know and I don't mind if you dont want to, I wont be offended. Completely polite and civil.

What do I get back......nothing! No reply.
I will just leave it now, probably for good.

[pitbull]

Rang up last night to speak to children and also to make plans for weekend. Wife hurls abuse at me, saying that "how comes Ive started to become a better father and now do stuff with them?", "what next, you taking them to fairyland". Completely out of order. Now I know why I was unhappy as when she has an off day it back fires on me 200%.

Ive said her to that she has hurt me enough over the past month and don't bother contacting me unless she is going to be civil. I wanted to talk about finances and child care over dinner, but she completely blanked me.

I'm paying £300 per month for a car she is driving around in. I said that this month is the final payment I'm making, so she has one month to find a new car. Completely reasonable I think, but to her from speaking to her this morning this is out of order. I just can't win!

[GTW]

I'm paying £300 per month for a car she is driving around in. I said that this month is the final payment I'm making, so she has one month to find a new car. Completely reasonable I think, but to her from speaking to her this morning this is out of order. I just can't win!

I am in a very similar position but have yet to break the news to my X. The only problem is the car is on finance and is in my name so I am going to make some calls and find out where I stand first.
It seems they are happy to remove us from the equation but want everything else in their life to remain unaltered.
Don't let them have the cake and they wont have the opportunity to even consider eating it.

[pitbull]

More news.....

Checked our joint account just now, and bingo!!! Transaction from Holiday Inn for £50.
She says it was for a round of drinks!!!! I said why such a round number, she said they were £5 each. That was generous of her to buy 10 drinks when she hasn't even got any money.

[pitbull]

It has been confirmed. There was a £100 transaction on the friday night at 7pm which has not yet been debited, a room deposit, then the £50 room was paid on the saturday morning.

I can't believe how I have been so betrayed and lied to!

[spiderman]

oh mate I feel for ya buddy :(

[pitbull]

Had to take some sleeping tablets last night as I was in bits after my 6 year old son phoned up crying his eyes out saying when am I coming home. This has tipped me over the edge, the bitterness and hatred is like nothing I have felt before. I was tempted to go round there and be with my son.

Her mate also landed her in it when I said about the hotel transactions, she said it was for drinks at the bar. Then I found out that it wasn't, it was for a room.

I have asked for the truth many many times since yesterday and all I get is a blank. How cowardish! I even said to her stop being so arrogant and tell me the truth and then it will be amicable and I wont push for adultery. Still no reply. You couldn't make it up.

I phoned the house phone and her mum answered, she asked me why am I doing this, I just want some answers and the truth. She said she hasn't been seeing anyone and wouldnt lie to me. Of course she wouldnt shes on her side. I doubt her daughter has told her the truth. I asked about the room receipt and she said about her mate might of stayed with her, which could be possible, but then again her mate said she bought drinks at the hotel bar.

I am really feeling for my children, my mum retires next month and therefore I could go for custody of the kids. My wife hasnt even got any money left I gave her as shes too busy pi$$ing it up the wall.

I don't know what to do, I want whats best for my kids and keep it as amicable as possible. I am seeing a lawyer on Friday to push for divorce.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[koliver0821]

Hey Pitbull. You obviously have a ton on your mind. Your asking practical and logistical questions to a problem that is more emotional than anything. Obviously, the cracks in the relationship are there. Now that the truth is out there, really do some deep thinking about yourself and what is going on. I know its difficult to hear what is going on. However, if you really want to hear the truth from her, you will need to arm yourself with your own portion of blame pie. When you mention you want a civilized conversation, you need to make sure that is what is coming across when you say that.

You are full of anger as you mention. I can tell you without any uncertainty that your wife will not respond to anger. If she knows you are going to blow up, she will just use that as justification for continuing her actions. If you are willing to accept any blame for her looking elsewhere for attention, then you will more likely see your wife respond. With that being said, Im not suggesting you dont look into your options. But if you are truly looking for healing, it might be good to become more introspective. I know that is what I did when my wife said the same thing to me. Unfortunately, her affair wasn't a current one. But I do know that guilt of that affair has caused her doubt in her love for me. She didnt have to tell me about it.

Believe it or not, your wife did tell you somethings but im not sure you are listening to her deeply enough. She told you that you are acting like the father of year now. You obviously took offense to that. However, what she was really saying is that you werent acting like a father before. (atleast in her eyes). If you want the truth, start with empathizing with her feelings. Agree with her. (even if you dont believe it) Have her talk more and try not to take it as an attack. It may very well be an attack. However, I think you will learn a great deal more about yourself and your wife if you start applying this now. It may not be enough to save the marriage. If you want to be happy again and understand the reasons for the breakdown it will be worth it. Especially if you really want it to be an amicable divorce.

You can really feel your anger in your post. Ask yourself, why are you so Angry. Write it down and explore the reasons why you are angry.

[pitbull]

OK, the dust has settled a bit, we're on talking terms again, the threat of divorce has really hit her, but she is still unprepared to talk about the other Friday night and I have not pushed her. I don't want a divorce and neither does she but I just want to know the truth.

On Thursday evening my mind was ticking over and I was putting things together and I even thought my best friend might be the other person. She mentioned him on Saturday, the day after the Friday night and he mentioned her and said about letting her go.

I did say to her that I was serious about getting a private investigator and funny enough the Friday morning I spoke to him about whether he had been sleeping with my wife he mentioned this also. It maybe just a coincidence, I dont know. He was very angry at me for accusing him and said he would never do that. I asked him please tell me for my kids sake and he denied it all. I believe him but I am still none the wiser.

I spoke to her mum and she denied she was seeing anyone. I spoke to her sister to get her Mums phone number and asked whether I could go round there in person and try to salvage our marriage but she didn't let me. Her sister believes her, and when I asked her sister about the Friday night she was not prepared to talk about it and said its all in my head. Because I was so angry about being lied to, I did say some hurtful things, so I guess they don't really like me at the moment.

How frustrating! I gave my wife a card and flowers yesterday so say sorry for the accusations and her face looked sad, the sort of why are you doing this.

I love her that much that I just want her to happy and would love her unconditionally. I am going to leave it and hope that if there is something it will come out in time.

If you have any ideas/suggestions or same experiences to share with me that would be great. AM going round there on Wednesday to help her tidy the house up.