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fsa
4th December 2009, 10:22 PM
Hello everyone. Google lead me to this website and I really hope you kind folk can take a moment to advise me as you have done for the many others who have received sound suggestions.

The essence of my problem is that we were a young married couple who eloped 2 years ago, and now she wants to end things because she cannot see a way of telling her family. If I may go into a little more detail so you can appreciate our situation:

Dating to Wedding
We were 19 when we met and neither of us had any serious relationships beforehand. She was always nervous around guys and it seemed I was the first one she really opened up to. The usual romancing and going out happened and we really fell for each other. Six months in, we wanted to spend more time together and thought about moving in. Familial religious differences meant we couldn’t give full disclosure: she is Sikh, I am Muslim. Naturally, we don’t have a problem with that, but her family tend to bring up historic prejudices stemming from the partition of Punjab. My parents live abroad, so it was easy for me….things were more challenging for her, since her extended family are based here.

At the time, she was a first year at uni, so she was able to keep everything a secret and tell them she was living in halls. I lived in another part of town until then and wanted to make a fresh start, so we moved in together into a little flat near her uni. We thought things through as much as we could, and felt getting married would be the right thing to do since the thought of cohabiting without some element of commitment didn’t sit well with us. It was a moral dichotomy…we couldn’t tell our parents, but how can we share the same bed? We decided to elope.

She thought the day may never come when she could tell her parents, but at the time I felt we would deal with issues as and when they came. I hoped when she graduated and found a career for herself, managed to gain some independence and self-confidence she would be able to bring this up to her family. It was a small ceremony at the registrar’s office and we planned to hold a big wedding in years to come when the family situation could be overcome.

The Married Years
Despite our love for each other, things didn’t always go smoothly. I know it was because we rushed into things too quickly. I would be snappy, she would mope. There were times when she would do the silliest of things and I would lose my rag…but I knew it wasn’t her fault: she has never had to fend for herself. Ive lived away from my parents since I was 15…I managed to develop some survival skills. I accepted these were teething problems any newly cohabiting/married couple would face.

While she worked her way through uni, I finished off my A-Levels (I was a drop-out) and started a low paid job. I was clinically depressed before I met her…through her I managed to sort myself out. I know this sounds like a recipe for disaster: one should be happy with themselves before delving into a relationship. Maybe this was an omen. This was part of the reason why I would snap whenever she was upset…I couldn’t stand seeing her go the way I did.

She had problems with her father, she wasn’t happy with her body, she couldn’t commit to losing weight, she shied away from making many friends at uni. Things would’ve been easier on her social life, I suppose, if she did indeed stay at halls…but she chose to live with me. I did say this to her, but she would insist it’s because people at her uni are too immature and just not at her wavelength. Her closest friend is someone she met through me.

The good times were great…she is always surprised at how well I know her and how well I can read into her feelings. We were like soulmates. We loved each other’s company and despite our different interests, we found common ground and could appreciate each other’s talents.

After starting my job, I managed to secure a place at university 80 miles away from where we are now, and a similar distance away from her family home. This is at an establishment to study a course I had always dreamed about and never thought I could accomplish. I am due to start next year, after she graduates. I unrealistically hoped she would be able to move up there with me, but it would be very difficult for her to run this by her parents, who would insist on visiting if she is in another city. At the moment, she goes to see them every fortnight and that helps keep their suspicions at bay…but if she were to declare that she wanted to start a job or do further studies somewhere that far away, they would insist on helping her set up and popping round.

Given this, we contemplated having a long distance relationship. My course is six years long and we could make things work over this time through visits and things. During that time she would try to get herself established in whatever career she chooses, since her degree was more of an academic one without a direct vocational route.

The Breakup
This October she decided to end things. Completely. She decided she saw no future with us because she can never ever tell her family and she didn’t want to pursue us if it will end in heartbreak. She said she knows she will never find anyone like me, who loves her like I do, but the family issue is a big one and she cannot put them through this. She said if she spends the next few years in a long distance relationship with me, and in a decade down the line she has to end it, what will have been the point if she was meant to be with someone else. How can she meet this other person who she could settle down with if she was still with me.

She said she couldnt just keep me under false pretences and stay with me when there was no chance she would tell her family.....and its a proper relationship that i am after, especially after all the time weve been together. Obviously the stakes wouldnt be as high if we were still a new couple.....but weve been through so much together and that is what hurts so much more. I did feel that connection and imagined longevity with her...careers, big house, long holidays, kids....the whole nine yards. Her home life has improved over the past year, her parents has a fractured relationship and were contemplating divorce when we first met...but they seem to have reconciled things now.

I was furious. It was as though she was contemplating another relationship and I meant nothing. Time and time again she would say she can never bear the thought of losing me completely because I mean so much to her and know her so well, but when I would ask her if it is other men she wants, she would say she is in no shape for another relationship and just wants to be single to focus on herself. She said she felt she was defined by our relationship for the past few years. I asked what it is that she wants to do that would be restricted by her being in a relationship. She said every decision she made before involved me in her thinking process, but I never enforced anything on her. I let her pursue whatever she wanted to. I didn’t restrict her. So I asked again if it is other men she wants to date. She said, if it is her fate to be with someone else, then how can she find that person when she is with me. Why is she masking her childish thoughts in all this spirituality? If she loves me as much as she says she did, then why would she want someone else? If she says she knows no one can love her like I do, then why the curiosity?

I get that she went to an all girl’s school and I was one of the first guys she really bonded with, but from the beginning I did encourage her to talk and befriend other guys to see what else is out there. How could I be sure that she knows I am the one for her when she hasn’t seen much? She said she would get shy around other guys and she knew she could never find someone else like me. However, all the time she says she doesn’t want a relationship and craves the flattery of attention from other guys. She feels she was always the ‘fat girl’ in the group and no guy ever paid any attention to her. Now that she is losing weight and becoming more confident of her body, she wants to play these guys….tease them with what they could have then walk away. Why this new found man-eater attitude? I get the ego-boost she can derive from this….but what if she ends up doing more with one of them? She said if she felt mental enough she might have a one-night stand. I cant hold it against her, I know, but why is she thinking about that?

She says she wants to grow and find herself without being tied down with a relationship. If that is what she wants, then why not use the opportunity when I’ll be at uni. We won’t be in each others’ faces, there will be distance and time to ponder. There will be time to be ourselves to find out who we are while we arrange meet ups whenever we are free. Why end everything when that time apart is coming up anyway?

I was gutted that she didn’t give me any room for manoeuvre. She made all the decisions herself and did not discuss anything with me to come to a compromise. She even wants to move out and is on the waiting list for uni accommodation to spend her last two terms. That means I will be left with the huge rent solo. My landlord has been kind enough to allow me to pay less for the next six months if she goes and I will pay him the rest once I graduate. He has no reason to take my word for this, but he was very kind and understanding. He knows what uni I am going to, he has seen the admission letters, he knows what career I will be going in to. At least that saves an additional move into a smaller place for six months before I have to move nearer to my uni.

Even though she wants to move out, she says she still wants to keep in touch and wants me to visit her there and her to come here. It is such a mixed message: she doesn’t want to sever all contact, but does want to end the relationship completely. I don’t know if I would have the mental strength to do that.

She hasn’t been painfree dealing with all this either. This was probably the cause of her lack of motivation over the past year…thinking about our future. Since breaking the news she spent a couple of weeks crying, sleeping till late, not eating properly. She has missed coursework and dissertation deadlines, she has asked for extensions, she hasn’t turned up for some of her lectures and singing classes. It seems to have affected her as well. It seems she hasn’t just washed her hands of me easily.

Living Together while Broken Up
The past two months I have been trying to be good-natured with her while we are still under the same roof. Whenever she feels ill, I comfort her and give her medications. She stopped eating for a few days and since then Ive been trying to make sure she doesn’t do anything silly. Whenever she feels down and cooped up in the house and none of her friends are around, I take her out for a movie or something low key just to keep her spirits up so she can get through her final year at uni.

She says she has accepted that we are no longer in a relationship, despite how much she loves me. She has managed to deal with it and be okay with it. Fine, but why end everything completely? Why close the door and finish everything if it meant that much to her? No one can love her the way I do. She says she knows that. I know our relationship had problems. We had our fights and arguments. I said bad things in the spur of the moment. She would get depressed and mope and I would resent her for that when I was suffering from the same thing. But at no point did I stop loving her.

I realise she was pondering over all this for nearly a year which is why she is more detached than I am. I get that, but I think it is childish and cowardly of her to just walk away when we haven’t given our relationship a real go. The past two years we have been sheltered away in our flat, oblivious to the real world. She hasn’t had to venture into the real world and that is scaring her. She has so many worries right now, I don’t think she has given our relationship the deep thought it deserves. She is worried about her exams, dissertation, that she doesn’t know what future career to pursue since her degree doesn’t really lead to anything direct, that she has to move back in with her parents after uni as she cant afford anywhere by herself, …there is too much playing on her mind. That is a recipe for rash decisions, is it not?

The family situation is difficult, I know, but she cant tell what the future will hold. A mutual friend gave me a whole lecture on the misogyny of Sikh families and how the mothers are selfless martyrs to the whims of the fathers. The mothers wont stand up for anything and give in to the narrow mindedness of the men. This is something she says she cant stand and hates. She dislikes the senseless Sikh hatred. She hates her mother for not having the strength to pursue her own things, but feels she cannot put her mother through the taunts of her extended family should they realise she went off with a Muslim guy. Why is she being a martyr and sacrificing her love for the medieval ideologies she cant tolerate? This is the 21st century and someone needs to make a stand. She says if she does anything now they will claim she was brainwashed and doesn’t know what she is talking about. But if she had the courage and self-assurance, could she not stand up to it? Live her own life? Do her own thing? Right now, she doesn’t have any of that….but once she gets settled into whatever career she chooses and her life takes shape, then surely she will be able to take this on?


Her New Side
I already mentioned how she had image problems, and despite all my efforts to encourage her, she never committed herself to anything. I bought her exercise tapes, equipment, offered to go out on walks and jogging together. Last year I paid for her to join her uni gym, but her attendance was patchy. I then paid for her to have personal training sessions with this trainer from the summer months ago and her mood just lifted and she was being more proactive and enjoying things. I assumed it was her endorphins kicking in, but I shouldve been more suspicious. Two weeks after she told me she wanted to end things, I happened to read some messages on her phone she sent her friends and they made me flip. At first she made it out like it was her friends teasing her and there was nothing to it. I didn’t believe her and I trashed the house. I got violent…not at her, but at everything in the house. I felt like she started having feelings for this man WHILE she was still with me. She was the one who would tell me, “oh you work with pretty nurses and doctors...what if you find one of them hot, please tell me if you get a crush on someone or even give someone a second glance and ill do the same”. She used to tell me that her idea of cheating was merely having that emotional bond, the moments thought about someone else. And behold the irony....who did the lusting?

She later tried to justify the trainer guy with some long winded explanations. Apparently at first she thought he wasnt that good looking, but his physique and personality grew on her and she found him 'dishy'. Apparently she liked what a nice guy he was, talking about his childhood etc and she was taken aback at how a gym guy would even chat with someone like her, instead of just training and leaving. Then she said she knows shes 'too good' for a guy like him and after losing 'the love of her life', shes not interested in relationships. When I quizzed her on the intimate thoughts she expressed, that ‘he makes [her] feel in ways that I never did’, that ‘seeing his motorbike parked near her car would make her heart flutter’, she’d do her nervous laugh, which she always does when shes caught out. She justified it by saying she was just hyper and it was just girl talk. I pressed her, if he actually turned her on while she was still with me. Queue the nervous giggle. I asked why she said 'what i feel is more than lust...nothing like what i felt with [me]'. Giggle and the whole 'i dont want a relationship with ANYone now' speech. When I asked why she felt it is 'fate that hes in [her] life', she said that she meant in terms of helping improve her figure.

The trainer was being nice to her…..but she doesn’t realise that he was being like that because he was being PAID to! What personal trainer would be mean to their client and risk losing business? She has misinterpreted his attention for something more. If she felt nothing for him and it was a joke, why did she have to seek several of her friends’ advice before adding him on a social networking website? She’s always lurking on his profile and thinking about whether or not there can ever be something between them. She’s went to a club on a particular night because she thought he would be there. On the one hand she says she knows he won’t approach her, but on the other she wants him to see what he could have. She said he’s a liar and rejoiced at how poorly his own fitness training is going…..so if there is this spite, why the need to flaunt in front of him? Ironically, he never turned up.

Being privy to her new found daring side and confidence has been a great shock to me. The timing of this, post our relationship makes me wonder what my efforts lacked. The past years she has struggled with her self-image and socialising at uni. I may not have been an ideal partner, but I did as much as I could to help her get out of her shell, be proud of who she is, be outgoing, eat healthy, lose weight and go enjoy herself. Seeing her now get a grip with all this when I am no longer a part of her life makes me feel my efforts were in vain and that in some indirect way I was holding her back. Several times I asked her to go clubbing, but she never would. Now, she craves it.

I have no right to feel like this and resent her for this. I know only too well and I am not doing that. She has a prerogative to move on from me and it is great she achieving so much. A part of me still burns with excruciating envy and rage to see her dress provocatively and get checked out by other guys. This was my girlfriend, my soulmate, my love....and to see her other men objectifying and leering at her makes me furious. I guess this is a part of the break up and I have no place to hold it against her, and I do not, but the sentiments I feel are overwhelming.

After the arguing and pent up hatred over her personal trainer, I demanded that she be honest with me. If she wants me to still be a part of her life, and wants me to be amicable towards her while we live in the same flat, then the least I expect is for her to tell me what is going on with these other men. She said she will and has kept me informed. She told me she added random guys on social networking sites who she is chatting with, she had a textual exchange with one of them who she said she might meet ‘for a laugh’ and is joining a dating site.

Amongst all the honesty she said her supposed feelings for her trainer was her attaching herself to a guy who shows her attention. She said that is what she used to do before and even with her teachers…how she would misconstrue friendly conversation with something more. She says she sees no future with the trainer and she would be selling herself short if she were to end up with him. She says she has seen what his real character is like through his profile and knows he is just not her type. That might be one thing, but she has started sending flirtatious messages to a forty year old divorcee she used to chat with before she met me. She says it is all for a laugh and she likes the attention, but she has gone as far as to send him provocative photos of herself and is planning to meet him. When I asked her if she would do anything more, she said if there is chemistry she might but that she ‘isnt that type of girl’.

Why would she do all this if she says she will be hard pressed to find anyone who would love her like I did? Am I the naïve pushover here?


My Situation
I told my dad everything the other day. I broke down and couldnt hold it in anymore. He reacted well. He understood why i did what i did and didnt judge me. He even spoke to her and said she is like a daughter to him now and to talk to him about anything she wants, even her personal problems. She cried afterwards thinking how a Muslim dad accepted her like this when her own father didnt. She has had a troubled relationship with her father.

He told me not to worry about the relationship breaking and to stay friends with her and give her the space. He said she is a good, polite girl and wont do anything silly. He said we should stay on friendly terms and see how things turn up in the future...we are only young after all and I shouldnt get worked up over what-ifs. I should be brave and keep faith.

I know the old adage says if one loves someone, one should let them go, but how can I just give up on the girl I love so much? She came up with the decision all by herself and didn’t leave me any room for manoeuvre. If we were just dating, then I’d get it….there wouldn’t be that much at stake. But the other day even she said that the marriage meant something to her…it wasn’t just a matter of convenience. She said we were soul mates. I know she is my soul mate. So why be a coward and walk away from the marriage when the going gets tough? All marriages have problems…whether both are the source or just one party…but that doesn’t mean you just walk away. Should you not work through the problems, exhaust every single possibility before saying ‘its over’?

I am not deluding myself into thinking she will take me back overnight. I’ve taken pity on how low she feels and tried to help her out; I want her to see how it could be if she spent the next few months here instead of moving to halls. If she gets a place, then I cant hold her back…….I can only hope she doesn’t.

I proposed we try some sort of separation and she said she would need time to think about it and its repercussions. I don’t know how exactly to go about it, but I tried to warm her to the idea that by doing this as a compromise, she would get some of what she wants and I would get some of what I want. All this time she has made all the decisions without any input from me. If we were truly in a marriage, then we should compromise. Ill give her the space and time she needs to find herself while she keeps the option of us getting back together open.

She asked what would happen if she were to meet someone while we were on this separation…what would she say to that person and how would she date them. Once again, I pressed her if it is other men she wants. She insisted that she is in no shape for a relationship, but if it is her fate, how can she go for it if she is tied down with me. I said if that situation was to arise, we’d deal with it later. I made it clear that the least I want her to do for me is to give us a second chance. She really feels insulted when I say the last three years was fake and meant nothing. If she really did love me, then the least she can do is to keep the option open.

I don’t know how I would be if she were to date other guys. Meeting and talking is one thing…..but if she were to get more intimate, my blood would boil. What can I do. I cant stop her if she agrees to give us another chance. I know Im not being naïve by prolonging the inevitable. I know we can work. Her problems just need addressing. Right now, she said she wants time to think about how such an arrangement would work and we need to draw up some clear rules. She asked for a few weeks to mull it over.

However, her idea of this is that she still wants to stay in contact and remain friends while she stays single, and if fate has it that we are to be together, then in years down the line when we are more mature, things will work out. She wants to have the option to date other guys and take things further with anyone she feels chemistry with. The way I see this trial separation, I want it to be where we go our separate ways and pursue our own things, but still meet fairly regularly with the ultimate aim to see if we could work things out.

Is this a hopeless case? What should I do?






I know this message has turned into an epic, but it has been a real help to get everything off my chest. I appreciate you taking the time to read my sob story.

-Infarcted Myocardium

Ageing Grace
5th December 2009, 02:28 AM
Hello, "Heart Attack". Welcome, and thank you for taking the trouble to tell your story so clearly. I found it heartbreaking! I hope the writing of it did you some good, at least.

You have some real problems here, haven't you? In my limited experience, Sikh families can be extraordinarily cruel to children (especially daughters) who choose a partner of the 'wrong' caste, never mind a whole other creed. Marrying you was brave of your wife, and I'm not surprised she hasn't told her parents.

This, of course, is a poor beginning to a marriage: even though you both understand her issue is not shame about her marriage, it still means her commitment can't ever have been as full as one would hope. I know Sikh daughters who have defied their parents to marry - it means accepting 'discommunication' from everyone they grew up with, at least for several years. It's deeply unfair of the family to force this choice. But the fact remains: your wife could not make this choice. You began your marriage in deceit. That made everything more difficult from the word go.

On top of all this, you've encountered problems that many young couples have to face: differing stages of life experience; getting to know one another for real; fears about "missing years"; the practicalities of making a marriage work when you need to be doing different things. It's hard for anybody.

Your love for her shines throughout your post. I imagine she would speak in similar tones about you. You're both lucky to have found such wonderful love, so young. But ... I am going to be more unkind than your father's been.

The commitment your wife must make, in order to be with you, is immense. She must decide, once and for good, she's yours and no-one else's, ever. That, in itself, is a tough call for a young person at the start of adult life. In addition, she must risk losing her parents, brothers & sisters, aunts & uncles and all the rest. All the signs you have related suggest she isn't up to it.

You must take up your uni course (medicine, your signature suggests!) and build your future; fulfil your potential as a man and as a human. I think you'll have to lay your wife's choices - as stark as they are - before her. Sadly, I suspect she'll choose her family ... but, as your father suggested, give her plenty of time to think about it. It's possible her parents won't be as strict as she assumes: but don't bank on it.

In short, my advice is to pursue your future and to value the love you've shared so far, in the knowledge that you do know how to love well. Decide that your wife must come clean with her family, or ship out - you have the best part of a year before it all becomes final, but you don't have to put up with living in the shadows for that long: only you know whether you can stand it.

I'm really sorry that things are turning out so difficult for you. Your wife sounds very young - I just don't think she's got the maturity and strength to face her realities, as you need her to. For both your sakes, I hope I'm wrong! But don't let her disrespect you any more - she'll have to grow up sooner or later anyway, and there's no reason why it should be at your expense.

I wish you luck. Please post back.

AG

fsa
5th December 2009, 11:14 AM
Thank you for taking the time to read through all of that, ‘amazing’ grace. It was really difficult to write everything and put my thoughts to words, but I really had to seek impartial advice. My friends have limited life experience, and this is not something I would discuss extensively with work colleagues.

Sikh families, and even Muslim families can be very heartless. You only need to watch ‘The Family’ or read the horrendous news articles on honour killings to get an idea. The fact that this occurs in this day and age in this part of the world is shocking. The peculiar aspect about her family is that they would be accepting if she were to settle with someone of any other creed…just not Muslim. She has extended members of her family, girls, who married Caucasians, Sikhs of other castes and Hindus without excommunication. There may have been some discontentment amongst the ranks, but they ultimately accepted.

Marrying without the blessing and support of family was a mistake from the very beginning which just added to all the young couple dilemmas. She was very brave to take it this far and juggle this double life whenever she went back home to spend the weekend at her family home. I have met her mother, obviously under the pretences of being a uni friend, and even tutored her younger sister through her AS Levels…she is also seeking a place at med school, hence her tendency to seek my help. They know I am a decent guy with a promising future…they know I care for her as a friend…just not how much I care for her. She mentioned to her mother and her sister how she has had feelings for me and we were thinking of dating, in an attempt to test the waters. While they sympathise, it ultimately boils down to the religious difference. She cannot bring this up with her father, who reigns control.

We are both 22, and it seems unfair for us to be faced with such a huge problem this early on, but c’est la vie. She has commented on how she feels like she has lived a whole lifetime over the past three years and the burden of keeping this a secret has worn her down. The commitment she must make is indescribable and I may never truly realise the nature of it. When I bluntly put it to her in the past, that is she willing to sacrifice her love which she says means so much to her for the sake of her family; alas she says yes.

However, I am not asking her to make this commitment right now, when she has so many other uncertainties. It would be asking too much of her to make this decision now. I guess her lack of emotional maturity is where the problem lies…then again one could say it is very mature of her to ‘honour’ her family, despite how much she has always hated the bigotry, even before meeting me. She feels too tied down and indebted to her family. Am I being naïve by thinking things could change in the future? She might get braver, she might believe in us more, her parents might mellow? Or is that me just prolonging the inevitable? What is the harm in us continuing to date for the next few years and seeing where things go? I know I can’t force her to make that decision…and if she really wants to date other men she will. But if I meant as much to her as she says I did, then why finalise and break everything?

Am I being a pushover for being amicable and good-natured towards her while she is still here? Part of me really wants to lash out and shout at her…heaven knows I already let out my rage on the furniture and argued with her over all this. I am still going out of my way to help her, and she always says how much she appreciates it. I always said I would do all the housework while she has exams and courseworks, but now that we aren’t together I could just leave her to it and do the bare minimum to suit me. I don’t want to be one of those lovesick guys whose wives take advantage of while they are out frolicking. As much as I resent her for not having the courage to continue with us, I still love her.

Fulfilling my potential without her seems impossible, but I will have to man up and take up my studies, what I have strived so hard for. I already dropped out of mainstream education once and cant let that happen again.

Thanks for your time, AG.

fsa
6th December 2009, 11:39 PM
I read through some threads from other people and my problems seem such pittance compared to what others are going through. I feel embarrassed for getting upset over my situation when I have no children for the wife to abscond with, my wife hasn’t kicked me out of my house, we weren’t married for decades, she hasn’t cheated on me (despite all the flirtatiousness I mentioned before). I really hope everyone else going through these obstacles can seek solace in all of your advice and can come out of their situations stronger and better off.


As much as I try not to get upset and keep myself busy, memories and the thought of not being with her are unavoidable. I thought keeping busy at work would be a refuge for me, but I work in a hospital ward where the staff are very gossipy…it would be different if I was in an office job where I could just slog away with minimal interaction. Colleagues used to seeing me happy and full of life think Im mourning a death. I am the youngest where I work, and did manage to open up to a few wiser ones and seek their counsel, as people with more experience and insight. Im trying to take on what some of them advised me: ive got a whole new future path ahead of me which i shouldnt sacrifice, start my new life with full vigour, if its meant to be with her then our paths may cross again the future. It just feels like such a passive way to deal with it. She means the whole world to me, should I not put up a metaphorical fight?


I met her today at her work during lunch after my night shift. She looked tired but smiled and was happy to see me. I didn’t have any agenda…I just wanted to see her. She then started talking about the 40-year-old divorcee who shes been flirting with and how shes planning to go meet him. I hate to admit this, but I have been spying on her. Modern technology makes it easy to frolic, but is equally as easy on the suspecting spouse. Everything that she has been telling me does correlate with everything I found out through other means…so I appreciate the honesty and that she’s not hiding things from me. This man is an absolute creep. She never met him before, and this was someone she would flirt with before she met me. She talked to him on the phone before she met me, but not since. He is divorced with a young daughter and knows she has just broken her marriage, yet he is sending dirty texts, asking for photos, expressing desires to kiss her and do more. What self-respecting divorcee would do that to someone else? Especially one half their age?

She says she just wants to meet him and get those residual feelings over with. She says she finds the flirting flattering and in no way sees a future with him. She says she’s not the type who would sleep around and ‘doesn’t think’ she would sleep with him. She says shell ‘probably’ not kiss him anyway because it would be too weird. But all the while, she is contemplating driving for 3.5 hours to where he is based to meet him. When I told her why shes being so easy, she said he offered to meet halfway first but then she said since shes got a car she might drive up to make it easier. She naively said she might meet him in his house or wherever he says. I put my foot down and said im not happy with her going alone to an unfamiliar town, let alone go into his house. I told her how easy it would be to have her drink spiked and let the creep have his way. She has thought about this and answered back saying he doesn’t seem the criminal type…he didn’t sound that on the phone…not everyone who expresses sexual feelings over text are like that. I made it clear to her that this guy is, for all intents and purposes, a total stranger from the internet. She cannot vouch for his character and I will not let her put herself at risk, even if were not together anymore. She said she hasn’t got many close friends who would go with her and disappear for a few hours in another town for her….her best friend is a trainee pilot with a full schedule. She suggested I could go with her, but it would be too awkward. I refused and insisted she find someone and not go alone.


She went on to tell me how she pathogenically has crushes on men who she cannot be with. I was the exception…but in some ways she feels she cannot be with me either. There were teachers at her school she had crushes on, the divorcee, the trainer… Its almost as though she doesn’t want to be in a relationship and puts herself through this. Not that she has ever taken anything any further with anyone else…yet…she gets romantic and fantasises. I am confident she never did that while she was with me, apart from that trainer in our last months.


She told me how she resents the hold Asian families have on their children and how she used to wish she was adopted. She finds it hard to understand why we put ourselves to be accepting of negative qualities in family members, yet are not always so with friends. She said how she wishes she could live abroad and away from them for some independence, although she realises she cannot break completely free. Her childhood was tainted from the age of ten when she had to witness her father’s schizophrenia affect her parents’ relationship. I guess that plays a part in her avoidance of relationships. Through all the relationships she has seen in her life, she has always found them to be lacking in some aspect or another.


I tried to explain that relationships are all about compromise and one does not always fall in love with their clone, then she went on a philosophical tangent about why everyone accepts that to be in a relationship is the norm. Just because it’s the status quo doesn’t mean it is right. She thinks it is rare to find someone who one can share the same beliefs and interests as…even to the miniscule elements. She feels it takes too much investment to make a relationship work and she has ‘loved enough’ when being with me; she doesn’t see herself going for another man in a long time. And even if she did, she feels it would be near impossible not to be in one without compromising on what one stands for. She doesnt think there is the perfect one for everyone out there and if relationships are about holding back some element of ones character, she doesnt want to do it.


She feels she is too young and ungrounded to make that decision. She wants to be young and live a little and do all the ‘silly things’. She feels she doesn’t know who she is and if she is not satisfied in herself, then how can she be in a partnership. When I said that I don’t have a problem with any of that and I always tried encouraging her to do whatever she wants, she says that is not the point…she wants to do it on her own. I asked her why would it make a difference if we still stayed together, but the distance when I am in Cambridge will give both of us the opportunity to grow. If we love each other like this, why not make this sacrifice and see where things go. She gets angry and says that by virtue of being in a relationship, no matter how loose the terms, would affect her ‘journey’.


She still says she wants to stay friends and I am like her best friend. She says she loves me and cares for me a lot and would do anything to help me at the drop of a hat, and she hopes I would reciprocate. She went on to say if fate has it, we may end up together, but even then we have things to iron out…and she went on about children and how she has her mind set on how to raise them and it would be a problem if I wanted them to be Muslim. She says she doesnt necessarily want them to be Sikh either, given all the crap her family instilled in her, but she thinks in today's day and age it would be a burden to grow up a Muslim. I said we haven’t even hit that stage yet, using that as a barrier is insane. She used this as one of those compromises in relationships she doesn’t want to contemplate.


She says she is falling out of romantic love with me because she has accepted the future. She says her heart melts when I do nice things for her, despite our break up and she doesn’t understand why I am being so good to her. She says I am a good man and will make the right woman the happiest and luckiest girl alive and she would be jealous. She says I deserve better and will get it one day. She doesn’t understand why I put so much love into her and that shes not worth it.


She then got late for work and went back while I stayed in the café holding back tears. I thought she would come back home after work and I bought some nice wines she found a new taste for during her recent clubbing and some flowers to pamper her after a long day at work. I was going to massage her and do everything that she likes. Irony has it that her parents wanted a family night out and she went there.




What is going through her head? I don’t understand. She wants independence and resents being in a relationship with me? Then how can she say all this about caring for me? How do I deal with this? I am so broken. What would make someone say all these things when they were so deeply in love? What went wrong?

What choices do I have? Do I bite the bullet and let her go?


-FSA

fsa
7th December 2009, 01:51 AM
Work tomorrow and cant sleep. Just had this exchange of texts with my wife and wanted to run it past you for your thoughts. I may be breaching her confidence, but I really don’t know what to make of it.


Her to me:
By the way, wanted to let u know, [D] texted & said “if & wen we meet, wud u let me kiss u”. & i said “i hope ur not mistaking me for an easy girl. Im just flirty & fun. But not tht kinda girl”. & he sed this: "I think you are one of the most decent girls I have met. Our flirting is natural and honest. If I thought you were cheap I would start being extra forward and would not respect you. Your gorgeous simple as that." Just thought u shud know. He cud be makin it up. But if its tru, then he aint a total creep. Goodnight hun.


Me to her:
Thank u for telling me.
I have no right to say this, but dont be so naive. How easy is it to say stuff thru text? What guy wouldv replied 'yea i think ur easy, i just want to use u for sex'? He knows ur a sentimental girl &is trying to weasel his way into ur knickers by sayin the right things. Would b more forward? Within days of u telling him ur marriage ended hes askin u for photos, wanting u to meet, kisses &sex. He knows ur emotionally vulnerable but is tryin to take advantage. If he truly thought u were decent &respected u, he wouldnt be making intimate requests bout ur meeting. A divorcee should understand the turmoil. Has he even asked what went wrong in ur marriage? Did he express any concern? What is honest bout this if hes supposdly trying to patch with his ex? So ur the booty call playin in2 his hands?
Have more self respect. Get [ur friend’s] opinion...u value her judgment if u think im biased.


Her to me:
I'll think over what u said. But dont tell any of my friends! U have no right, that's my call to make. & if u do, when i've asked u not to, i will neve talk to u again. & that's not a joke. I hardly have any friends. I make new ones & lose them quicker. Dont know why whether its not meant to be, or im jinxed or havent found right mates yet. But point is, i dnt hav many. Possibly, not even any. So please never tell them, anything i tell u. I tell u in private & in confidence. I expect u to keep my trust. Obv if i say its ok, esp with [my best friend], then fine. But otherwise, i hope u will get my feelings over this. If u tell my friends things i told u, which I FEEL are private, i will feel betrayed & i wont forgive u. its my personal life. Upto me to tell my friends, not u. If u do, i will never confide in u. Im not bein harsh. But its fair for me to ask u to let me have my friendships my way. They are nothing to do with u & i resent interference. Im sure u tell ur mates all about me & [D] & my desire to be single, etc. & tht ****ing hurts & makes me feel sick & tainted. But i cnt tell u wot to do or stop u tellin them. It hurts & i hate tht they see me in a negative way coz they are biased. & i hate confiding in u bcoz of it. But its ur business. I cnt force u not to tell them. As much as i hate it & it makes me sick. But u tellin my mates is out of line & it aint ur place. & no u hardly have so far. Im just saying it so u know b4hand & dnt tell them sumthin i didnt want u to, & then say u didnt realise it was private. That's why i'm making it clear now. Hope u understand.


Me to her:
I wouldnt cross that line. Its your call to make. I dont discuss u to ur friends. I dont tell my friends everything. They dont have enough life experience to understand.
I will only involve ur friends if ur safety is at stake. I didnt say id tell [ur friend]...i suggested YOU seek her counsel. U dont have to confide in me. If u dont trust me, respect my opinion, take a moment to ponder on my advice, then u dont have to tell me. Ur choice.



Her to me:
Thank u for understanding. & i will ponder ur advice & i certainly respect u. But even if i pursue seein [D], etc, it'd be on my terms. I know he isnt serious. But i dont want him to be. Bcoz im not serious & i cant commit. I just want to feel good & flirt a bit. His silly texts make me smile. It's light-hearted. Dnt mean i'd hav sex either tho. I do hav respect. But if i want to hav fun, flirt a bit, tlk a bit & mayb hav a nice kiss, it'd be bcoz i want to & i'd use him too. & get this straight...i'm NOBODY'S booty call. I may want harmless fun but i'm not a hoe & i do sumthin if i want it, not coz he's fakely sweet & gentle & luring me in. Giv me some credit. Im not tht naive!! I'm just not bothered bcoz its a laugh to me. Its just sumthin to make me smile & make me feel wanted & pretty. Its not serious.




I don’t have the strength to say anything to that and am turning my phone off. I am being a push over, aren’t I? I should just show her the door and leave her be, shouldn’t I?

Ageing Grace
7th December 2009, 04:19 AM
Wow. Thanks again for your posts, fsa. Much of what you said about your wife makes me feel sad for her (as well as for you!) - too much to write on my phone, though, it'll have to wait.

This text guy sounds horrendous! Maybe her meeting him will be no bad thing; she needs to find out that not everybody is lovely ... I'm glad she'll have her own transport, should she need to make a getaway. But, for god's sake, she mustn't put herself alone with him! Car or house - if the doors lock, it is NOT safe with a stranger met in this way. She should meet him in a public place; they even tell you that on the dating sites.

My own rule, when travelling alone, was always "never get into a situation you can't get straight out of". It served me well. Please pass it on, with my compliments!

AG

fsa
8th December 2009, 12:05 AM
Thanks, AG. I will reiterate that to her. I think I should stop writing massive posts and wait for everyone to read and digest. I really don’t know what I should do. I hate this feeling of uncertainty and being in a limbo.



I sent her the following in the morning:

I dont make you smile? Make you feel sexy? Make you feel wanted?
What do i lack that ur chasing creepy strangers? You could have what every sex&the city girl wants: someone who loves, cherishes, adores, admires, respects, craves someone like i do u. The grass always seems greener, but u have the potential waiting for u. I know we had problems, but i am committed to sorting myself out. For you. For us. For our marriage. Y put urself thru this so-called voyage of discovery by giving up what samantha ultimately ended up with? I know ur scared, stressed, resent the double life, upset at ur social life, hate ur family probs, uncertain bout ur future, but y go thru it alone when im offering companionship?


I hope I made myself clear there. She contacted me about other things….like locking her keys in her car and calling me in a panicked state…to complain about her friends….to beg me to help her sister with her coursework…. Just not the text.



On another note, no contact from the creepy divorcee today.

Ageing Grace
8th December 2009, 03:07 AM
On another note, no contact from the creepy divorcee today.

Heh - perhaps he reads this forum :p

It might be easier for other members if you were to precis your situation and your worries, fsa. Writing the long post can be very therapeutic in itself but, as you want to encourage different points of view, bullet points may help.

One thing that feels odd to me is that - whilst you are married - neither of you seems to feel you've completed the 'marrying' process. This is understandable in terms of wanting to consolidate your relationship before god and your families. Since neither god nor your families want to play ball, in your case, it feels rather as though you created a kind of holding marriage ... and, therefore, a fundamentally unstable relationship.

If I'm anywhere near correct in this, it could be worth explaining it somewhat for the benefit of other readers.

I am sorry that I don't see how you can resolve this. Your love does deserve to be reciprocated, I feel. I very much hope that it will! For now, though, I can only urge you to take care of your personal future, and to do what you believe is right by your wife.

She does sound alarmingly screwed up - understandably, given what you've told us about her background. Luckily, she's young and, with steady support, will no doubt gain in confidence and security. I think you need to avoid trying to make up for her father, extended family and self-worth issues: it simply can't be done.

Many here would suggest you lay off the unending support and tolerance, which you currently give your wife. I can't comment on this. I hope you receive replies from others, whose own experience more closely matches yours.

Do take care of yourself, physically and mentally. Eat, sleep, talk to friends, etc. To resolve problems, you need health :)

Good luck, Doctor ...
AG

fsa
8th December 2009, 07:10 PM
Shes leaving tomorrow. Shes got a place in her uni accommodation. I dont want her to leave. Ive tried talking to her. She gets upset to hear me cry and that I dont want her to go. She said she wants to do this for herself and that she told me before. Reality has just hit.

What can i do?

Ageing Grace
8th December 2009, 10:58 PM
I am sorry, fsa. You must let her go ... and wish her well. It's gutting, I know.

She has explained she needs to pursue her own development; she has given you enough warning :( To try and hold her back would not be loving.

You must be feeling torn up. I so feel for you!

Please let her know you do hope to stay friends, as she offered. But give her space, she needs to be an individual just now. You should really try to limit your calls to maybe a couple of times a week, and don't text her all the time.

The next couple of months will probably be very hard on you. Focus on your plans, fill your life up with as much companionship & laughter as you can, and take good care of you.

Who knows what will happen down the line? One thing's for sure, you need to be in good shape, physically and emotionally, to make the most of times to come - however they turn out.

I wish you some solace. I wish your wife safety.

AG xx

fsa
11th December 2009, 10:25 AM
My comments about the divorcee were premature. Contact has resumed flirtatiously, although she says he is flaky about meeting up. As before, I remained adamant that she is NOT to go alone, or meet him at his house.

I discussed this completion of marrying process, you brought up, AG. We both did say we would have the big family wedding some time in the future once all the other obstacles were overcome. We rushed into it as a young couple thinking that if our love for each other is so strong now, then why delay the inevitable. Given that we wanted to live together and take things further. Over time I started to treat it more like a marriage whereas she says in her mind we were still a dating couple in a very strong relationship.

I guess therein lies the problem. She could never take that final step because of the double life and the constant question about whether her family would accept. That was a precursor to all our problems.



If I lay off the unending support, won’t she regard me as some a jerk and not even consider giving our relationship another go after she has had her head space? I know I need to be more assertive and since it was her decision to leave, I should just leave her to it…but my love for her means Im always worrying about her and wanting to be there for her.

It was desperation talking in my last post. I know there was nothing I could do…she set her mind to it…she paid the deposit…signed the tenancy…there was nothing I could do.

I would have been more tolerant of her need for headspace if she discussed this with me instead of ending the relationship. I know she has had a tough three years with the double life. She is worried about her career, her future, the debt she has incurred, her unstable family and that she never had the full uni experience. It would lead anyone to a breakdown. If it is space she wanted, I would’ve been more understanding had she not decided there was no future for us as well. When I told her this, she was surprised to hear I would’ve been okay with it. Things have come too far now for us to go back, but at least miscommunication has come out as one of the reasons for this failed relationship.




On Wednesday, I slept as she packed her things. Then she begged me to help her move her things to her new halls. She said she tried asking her friends but no one was available and she cant exactly get any member of her family to come to the flat. In the end, I helped her. She seemed grateful and I made the occasional dig saying ‘no ex would do this…I hope you realise this.’ At least I got to see what her halls are like. Its shocking that shes paying almost the same amount for a small ‘en suite’ room in a narrow corridor of flats with a shared kitchen and antisocial first years who blast their music. It’s a far cry from the flat, but she is happy to have her own space and that it is opposite the uni gym so she can easily work out.

After helping her move, I told her that if she decides to give things a second chance, I will look deeply at what went wrong in our relationship and take steps to rectify things. I told her that I understood why she felt the need to do this, given all the things going through her head, but I still think it was selfish and cowardly of her to do it this way without involving the both of us. Regardless, if she wanted to try it out again, things would be different. She said if she considers making things work again and if after a year or two if she doesn’t see a way with her family, I will have to accept it.

I found out she sent a long message to her trainer full of lies about how I shouted at her and got violent when she told me she got her halls and desperately tried to make her stay and how along the process she fell down the stairs and hurt herself. I started asking her if she sent her trainer any messages; she denied. I reminded her that she said she would be honest with me if she wants the friendship. She still denied. I then told her I saw it on her phone and it took a while for her to come clean. She said she didn’t want to tell me because I would think she was some sort of freak. She said she was feeling lonely and stupid and was craving attention and that’s why she made all that up. I told her I don’t care what she says to who, but why she has to make me be the evil one in this. She said it doesn’t matter because the trainer doesn’t know me. I said it’s the principle of it and if shes willing to lie like this to him, then what else is she going to say about me to others. She looked guilty and promised she wouldn’t hide anything from me….I sarcastically said “sure you won’t, like the last few times you said”. She went on to ask why I would want to have anything to do with her if she is that messed up and what it would take to hate her. I said im trying very hard to hate her, but i still love her too much.

Yesterday she asked if I would mind helping her unpack and do some groceries with her and how it would be depressing for her to do it by herself. I really considered agreeing…but after all I did for her, she needs to see what its really like being alone and independent. Ill wriggle myself out of it without seeming cruel. Even though she still insists on helping me move to and set up in Cambridge, things are too raw right now for me to be there at her every beck and call.




I am trying to keep myself busy and meet all those friends I ignored over the past few years. However, when I have a spare moment to myself, I end up thinking and lamenting over her. It is not right. It is not manly. But I cant help it. I feel so broken.

Ageing Grace
11th December 2009, 03:10 PM
If it is space she wanted, I would’ve been more understanding had she not decided there was no future for us as well. When I told her this, she was surprised to hear I would’ve been okay with it.

Interesting. Why is that?

Were you quite controlling and/or demanding, while you were together?
Is it simply a reflection of her expectations, having grown up with an unstable father & compliant mother?
Was she afraid you'd make her wear a burka & stay indoors?


I think I understand why she needs her independence; she's got a lot of very complex issues to work her way through - that's not unusual in your twenties, anyhow. Living in halls was a good choice for her; the ready-made social structure takes the edge off living alone, while still allowing independent choices.

You seem to have had a very constructive conversation during the move, fsa. You're right to say she needs to do her own shopping and so on!

I hope this shakes down okay for both of you. Your biggest problem, I feel, will lie in sorting out your own attitude towards your relationship. She seems to think of you as a steady boyfriend, with a relationship which may or may not survive the uni experience. In your mind, she is your wife so has duties of fidelity and openness towards you.

It's complicated. I wish someone else would reply to your thread!
Are you posting elsewhere, too?

Best of luck. Take care,
AG

fsa
12th December 2009, 05:22 PM
Good gosh no…I was anything but controlling and demanding. I let her do whatever she wanted…of course if there was something I disagreed with, I would let her know…like I thought any normal person would. Never did I enforce anything on her. And a big ‘hell no’ to the burkha. She thought I would see it as her trying to end the relationship if she proposed such an idea. It must stem from seeing her mother never do anything for herself or raise her opinions to her father. It must have left a subliminal impression on her. She must think that the only way to do what she thinks she has to is to get rid of the man….like she hoped her mother would’ve done years ago. Little did she realise there was another way to go about it.

I am trying my level best to limit communication with her. She has been trying to convince me that the divorcee is just a ‘normal horny 40 year old’ and is safe to meet. She tried to ask if I would go with her if she were to meet him on an evening. I said it would be crossing boundaries and I will not, but I insist that someone goes with her. She thinks there is a chance he is a creep, but he could also be sweet. She feels she has no friends close enough who would go out of their way to go to a different town like this and disappear for a few hours while she meets this creep. She is blinded by all the sexual flattery he is giving her…she even went as far as to send him topless photos. I lost respect for her at that point. At least she told me honestly…but part of me thinks that is not the real her…it is a crazy version trying to deal with all her complex issues. I really feel like meeting this guy myself and telling him to lay off.

She said: " its nothin to do with comparing u two. Its nothin u didnt giv. Its just nice to hav a different guy pay me attention. His accent is cute (& no we havent spoken on fone yet), & hes sweet & i just like the flirting. I love flirting! But, i didnt mean i like him, like him. Not in any serious way. I mean i like him just as a flirty guy payin me attention. Its just fun & gives me confidence & takes tension off all the **** im goin thru & stress with essays & stuff. Its just a nice distraction at times.

P.S. He text at 6 this mornin in response to my last txt last night askin him if hes free tues. He sed hi sexy, let me check my duties at work & then i'll let u kno wot day. & then he sed by the way i wanked to ur pics. Ur so gorgeous. So he straight out, honestly, told me he did tht. Not many men wud openly tell a girl tht esp wen its new & havent met. Cud make her run a mile. I txted back just now sayin cnt wait to hear wen ur free & love how honest ur bein bout wank. Ur so gorgeous. Thts it.

Mayb. But thts ur opinion. I hav no intention of sending more. Ive given enuf teasin & flirting. Now he has to follow thru. Im not an idiot, even last time, i used to put my foot down & hardly ever giv him wot he asked. I played the game too u kno. & he knows me. As in, he knows i get annoyed & if i think hes lyin/bein a jerk, i ignore txts. Thts how we kept losin contact. If hes bothered & decent, he'll make the effort. Thts how i test him. I kno how u feel & thts fair enuf & u cud be right. But right now, tht isnt my opinion of him."

He is disrespecting her so much and she cant even realise it. She thinks she is the one in control by not pandering to all of his requests...but for crying out loud, he already got his masturbatory material off her!


This disparity of views on the relationship is the biggest hurdle. I really want to pursue it when she has had her headspace because I think she is worth every bit of effort. Then again, I cant impose anything on her and I really don’t want to be a doormat for her. Its all just too much to think about.

Im not posting anywhere else, AG. Are there other places you would recommend?

Should I start a new bullet pointed thread here or just add a new post with the focal point of my worries?

Many thanks,


fsa

fsa
13th December 2009, 02:15 AM
I met some friends who spoke some more sense into me. I realise I need to detach myself and let her find out for herself that I cant be there for her. I need to stop being in limbo and move on with things. She has put me through a lot of heartache, and regardless of her complex issues, it was selfish of her to call all the shots by herself.

She got upset at how flaky the divorcee was being, so we had the following exchange:


Her to me:
Ok he text me at 9:30 sayin 'just got in from work. I cant help gettin hard when i look at ur pics' & he sent me another joke forward. Then i sed 'thats flattering. So u find out a day ur free to meet?' he sed im workin all next week but hav some free days xmas week. Can you still meet me' & i sed yeh i can but it depends on when so i can know for sure. U got a day in mind on xmas week?' i didnt hear back, so sent another txt sayin 'Please dont say u'll meet me a certain week if your not free that week, because u get my hopes up & then change your plans & its not fair. I dont have strength or time for more disappointments & you've backed out before. If u just want something casual & dont wana meet at least tel me tht.' And he sed 'Thats why I wont lie if I can meet, I will meet. I need to work round work commitments and child minding rav. I so much want to take you out for a meal x x x' So i jus txt back sayin 'I understand dave. You have priorities & responsibilities. I just wondered if u honestly think it's likely we could meet before xmas. & i can come up to liverpool so u dont waste a day travelling, if u have commitments.' just sent tht, so waiting for a response. I really dnt kno if he'll meet me & is genuinely busy, or if hes makin xcuses & never wants to meet! Grrrrr!! Just thought id tell u as promised. U still with the guys?

later...
He just txt back sayin 'wud u send me a sexy voicemail' The ****ing wanker!! Ive txted bak sayin 'no, i dont think you've earnt it ;)' ****er!!

later...
Wot an idiot, all he says in response to my 'u havent earnt it text' is: 'He he I agree x x x' Grrrr!



Me to her:
Thanks for telling me, but what did you expect?



Her to me:
I wasnt expecting anything. I dont think i'll expect anything from life anymore. & i'll NEVER expect anything from any guy in the future either. My heart is too hurt to heal. I dont want a partner. I cant do it. I dont want anyone. I hope god is kind enough to give me a good career & quality of life to makeup for not having a man. I dont hav love, energy, or commitment to giv. My heart cnt do it. Not with any1. Not any1. [D] was never serious or important to me this time round. But i guess i thought he might like me genuinely just a bit. I shud hav known better with my record...me & guys just dont go. Im not lookin for anything in future & i'll never cut it in a rship anyway. I gotta use all my strength to pull thru this final yr & make at least sumthing of my life! Thts my only MAJOR stress & panic right now. I hate guys. I dnt want a man or to commit as long as i live, so help me god!



Me to her:
You need to stop worrying over these things and focus on whats important. Relationships and things will happen, but you need to focus on the exams and take things one step at a time. The next 5 months count for everything. U made the decision to move into halls and make a fresh start so make the most of it and plan ur work out. Use the timetable templates i made for u. Meet ur friends and chill with ur flatmates to fill ur life with as much joy as u can. Once the exams are over, relax and tackle the next challenge. Stop worrying about everything at once.



Her to me:
Thanks for the message. I know you're right. But dont bother yourself about me. This was all my decision right?! It's not your duty to look after me anymore. You can move on too. It means everything to me but it's not fair on you, so stop thinking of me! You came as an anomale into my life! You can do better & you will. I honestly believe i never deserved you. I'm going to sleep now. Have work tomorrow & i'm exhausted :'(


Me to her:
You texted me your problems and i advised you. That was all that was to it. You cant rely on me because that would be crossing boundaries. You made the decision and i cant expect you to change your mind. If you need help, ill see what i can do, but its only platonically. I am not going to go out of my way. Youve decided to move on, so fair enough. Ill move on with my life. Ill still worry about ur safety and make sure ur okay because we shared such a strong bond, but i cant be ur support. I guess this is it.


Her to me:
Just read message. I get you, that's fair enough. Guess the guys helped u put things into perspective. You've been loyal, loving & true. Ive been anything but. You'll be rewarded & you'll move on & go far in life! I truly wish tht for u anyway. I guess i broke your heart & for that i'll bear the consequences & punishment. For whatever it's worth, i'm sorry. But ur right, i guess this is it then. Im honoured & blessed to hav undeservedly had u in my life for the time that i did. Night.

Ageing Grace
13th December 2009, 02:47 PM
Oh, it's all so sad, fsa :(

The more you tell about your wife, the more she reminds me of myself at that age:- the lack of self-worth; the eating disorder; the confusion over relationships. Like her, I had an unstable, tyrranical father and an over-compliant mother. I didn't marry anyone as lovely as you - but I did push the nice guys away, unconsciously choosing those who mirrored my father in some respect.

I, too, was pathetically vulnerable to flattery - even the sexually inappropriate kind - while simultaneously mistrusting it (I mistrusted all compliments). The younger Grace would also have 'played' a creep like him, feeling it gave me a kind of power. This convoluted sense of power is fairly well documented in young women whose self-worth is low. It's very often associated with difficult parents.

In a real sense, you are better off without her. She won't get past this until something makes her understand it, when she will decide to change - even that process is littered with pitfalls; she may not make it. It breaks my heart, as she sounds like a lovely girl ... but deeply flawed. I hope her forthcoming independent years afford her just enough mistakes, so she learns how to be happy in relative safety!

Her time with you will certainly have helped her. She now has experience of a sane, supportive partner: a positive example, to help counteract the models she learned at home. I think this is something to take away with you - alongside the knowledge that your love is good; you have much to bring to your relationships. You deserve to be loved, appreciated & respected!

It's a great relief to hear you have wise & supportive friends, fsa :) Take very good care of them, and yourself. Your wife is lucky to have you as a friend, for as long as you choose to be so. I am sure things will work out well for you - I hope they will for her, too.

Hugs,
AG

fsa
21st December 2009, 10:20 AM
Thank you for your kind words and wishes, Grace.

I am trying to break free of my love for her…I am trying to hate her for doing this to me, but it seems she was vulnerable whilst leading this double life and a psychological breakdown was imminent. She feels she has to choose between her family or me right now and she has chosen the former. I hope she will soon realise that that decision doesn’t need to be made any time soon. I hope she has the maturity and courage not to give me up forever. She hasn’t washed her hands of me. She hasn’t been painfree with all of this either…or so she says. Socially she hasn’t made many friends yet, she says she misses me, she still hasn’t made significant progress on her essays, her room is tiny with first years for flatmates and a shared kitchen. The flat was relative luxury. Despite this, she is happy she has her own space, is so close to the uni gym and cant oversleep because the first years start blasting their music from 10am. She managed to get her mother and sister to visit her there so as to allay their suspicions about where she lives. She says she doesn’t miss our relationship and all the arguing….but I feel most of that stemmed from her attitude to the whole family situation. She must have harboured these feelings over the past year which fuelled our disagreements.

There must be something seriously wrong with her to have been deluded into sending topless photos of herself to the divorcee. I am insulted that these were photos I took of her. For me. What self-respecting young adult would do that? Surely she has seen enough of the world to know not everyone is how they seem. Even if she did share ‘a bond’ with him, why send compromising photos to someone she has NEVER met? It is almost as if she is pathogenically seeking attention….no matter how dubious the source.

Last week I got desperate and I asked her for an iota of commitment, otherwise I feel like I am being strung along with all the support I have been giving her. I asked her why she still insisted on saying were fully broken up when it is obvious she still has a connection with me…why cant we just say we are a couple going through issues and trying to resolve things. She said she is in no state of mind to make that decision and she may decide to fully end things before I go Cambridge, if she feels there is no real chance of a relationship. She thinks I am setting up steps for her to gradually accept to ultimately get her to take me back. She said she doesn’t know whether she wants to be in a relationship with me. She said she hated our relationship and all the arguing. I was in shock. She tried to say again that it wasn’t me she hated, but the relationship. At this point, I got out of her car and walked home. Was that really her saying that or her crazed angry state? Her insisting on reconciliation when I move to Cambridge seems like a delaying tactic…is she doing this because she actually has no intention of giving things another go and she can use the distance as an excuse not to go ahead with things?

She has since said she was immature to have been infatuated by the attention the trainer gave her and she shouldve realised it was the demeanour of any trainer towards their client. She says that is how she used to get with her male teachers and is a silly teenage thing she is trying to grow out of. She says she knows there is no future with him and apart from checking out his bodybuilder figure, she is trying to get over the crush. Ironically her kitchen overlooks the gym parking and she always ends up looking through it for his motorbike. I noticed her do that when I spent the day at her halls last Monday.

Despite her claiming this to me, she seems to harbour some strange attachment to the trainer, who fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch. She went clubbing on Saturday and got pissed, so I asked if she sent anyone drunk texts. She didnt want to tell me at first because she thought id get pissed off. I pushed her some more, she was annoyed at my interrogation and eventually told me.

She said: 'Basically...i texted sayin 'fancy a 1 night stand sexy?' & he sed 'lol bit late now. Bet ur loving halls.' then i sent this to explain: 'That aint an answer. Lol. Halls is wkkd. Flatmates challenged me to how much alcohol i can handle till like this morn we were chillin. So still tipsy lol. Playin spin the bottle & we're doin dares to ppl from our fone contacts. Lol. I had to txt u tht. Lmao. & they bet me on wot ur answer'd be. Lol' But ive made tht up about dare! Tht wasnt a dare or bet, I promise. I just sed it so he wudnt think im sayin it for real. Then he sed 'That would change our professional relationship. So i would rather save my answer for another rather than txt it.' No idea what he means by tht! & i dnt kno y i did it or wot i want from him so dnt ask. Now leave me alone please.'

I asked her why she was still pursuing him when she told me it was just a teenage crush she was trying to get over. 'So you lied to me when u said u were trying to get over him. Y do u keep lying to me? You want to sleep with him? Dave turns out to be a creep so u divert ur attention to him? What r u trying to get out of this? Please be honest with me. U keep things away from me despite ur promise. Y r u torturing me like this? How long do u expect me to string myself along? So now were contemplating sleeping with other people? Ull be ok for me to go have a 1night stand? Y r u doing this to me?'

Then she said: 'Im sorry i dont have answers. Im not hiding things. I dont know why i feel this ok? Im not stringing u along. I told u we're broken up...deal with it!! I'll do wot i want to vent stress. Didnt say id do 1 night stand, i dnt kno! I dnt know how i fee! Im sorry, but i dont! I dont have answers for me right now, let alone anyone else or u! plz giv me my space.'

I have not made contact with her since the evening of Saturday. Neither has she. I dont intend to resume communication. She claimed to a mutual friend that she sent the text in jest and was just teasing him…innocent flirting apparently. I really doubt it…no matter how much alcohol played a part in her text.




I know I need to start respecting myself and stop taking all this crap, but my love for her, despite all she has done, still shines through. I am trying hard to hate her, but I cant bring myself to do that. I keep thinking it all boils down to her having a near mental breakdown and this is her trying to relieve her stress. Maybe this isn’t the real her….most of the things she is doing is abnormal for her. Whether it is the new her, or just a phase, I cant say. I still feel so possessive of her….it enrages me with envy to see her flirt and get drunk. This isn’t the girl I fell for, I know. This should motivate me to move on, I know. But what keeps me drawn in is the question that what if this is just a phase and not a permanent metamorphosis? If she were to go sleep with someone, then I don’t think I would have the strength to take her back if she wanted to give things another go afterwards. It would feel too insulting…as if I wasn’t enough, so she had to fill the hole, for want of a better phrase. Perhaps I could get over her kissing…heavy petting…anything more…I don’t know how I would react.

All the self-reflection I do tells me that I may be better off without her. I may meet someone else in Cambridge who shares more of my interests. Perhaps a fellow medic. Perhaps a Muslim. However, at the same time I am too attached to Neetu. I still feel she is an irreplaceable part of me. Maybe I need to seek counselling/therapy to help me get over this. I am reading break up books to help make my mind up, but at the same token I am also reading marriage books to see if I could make this work. I am too scared to lose her forever. She was so perfect for me…I was so happy with her. Queue the usual lovesick regurgitation.

My goals and aims seem pointless. I feel numb. If someone breaks my heart, I should hate them and not want to have anything to do with them. Why am I not feeling that? Why am I still forlorn?

Ageing Grace
22nd December 2009, 04:30 PM
You're still folorn because you're grieving, fsa. It's normal and healthy. You've not only lost your marriage, you've lost your hopes for that marriage - everything you wanted it to be, but it was not.

In many ways, that's the hardest part. I'm sad for you. It's very difficult to face the fact that you didn't succeed in creating the life you wished for, with the partner you chose. It takes a while to sink in, and you're right to examine your role in what happened; it helps you to grieve for it, and provides insight that will prove invaluable later.

The truth, fsa, is that you and she, together, don't make the partnership you wanted. That's you and she as you are now. You've said there are things you regret doing (and, perhaps, not doing) during your relationship. What you have here is an opportunity to work those thoughts through properly, gaining more clarity in your ideas.

In a way, then, your present sorrow is a gift - one that can improve your prospects of future happiness.

Best wishes,
AG