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muddy mudguard
18th November 2009, 06:10 PM
Ok so here’s my situation. I met my wife when I was on business in the US, she is American and I’m British. We met in April 2005 and dated across the oceans for 6months. She moved to the UK to be with me in November 2005. We lived together straight away which caused problems in itself as two people who really barely knew each other thrown together have to learn how to live with one another. I had issues from my previous marriage – my ex cheated on me and I had an 11month court battle to get to see my 9yr old son; and she had issues herself – she had never really been in a relationship – her ex was 52yrs old and married – they dated for 2yrs on and off. So she didn’t know how to be in a relationship and I was insecure. I digress though – we worked our way through these issues and became stronger for it. We had a baby boy in June 2007 and married in August 2007.

We lived in the UK together from November 2005 until June 1st of this year. Since our child was born she had become more upset over being apart from her family. Her father passed way in March of 2007 – he’d been ill for a long time with Alzheimers. She wanted to raise our child around her family. Mine is very small and they live all over the place so we had very little support around us and consequently in October of 2008 I said “Let’s go”. So we packed up and moved on June 1st. We had little money so we started off staying with her cousin. This was a problem for her because we were all in one room, I was on a blow up mattress on the floor, and her and our son was in the double bed.

We bought a car but it broke down and ended up costing us more than if we’d bought a more expensive vehicle. Money was tight and arguments ensued. Her father had left her $22,500 but this money didn’t come through until August/September, so she asked her cousin if she’d lend her some money to get out of their place. We moved into an apartment at the end of July. I got a job and started work on 20th July. My wages were going to pay the bills, her father’s money was going to furnish the apartment and provide her with a vehicle. She spent $8,000 on a vehicle and furnished our apartment but we still owe her cousin $2,500. I asked her to not spend that much on a vehicle for herself and to only spend $5K but she ignored my advice and spent it anyways.

Throughout all of this time were her family was dividing the estate, she would go out for lunches with them to meet and discuss the situation and once she went out for drinks afterwards, leaving me at home with our son. She would also occasionally go out in the evening when I’d gotten home from work and meet up with her niece (over at her house) for a few drinks. She even went out for dinner one night and I remarked on how early she came back as I thought they’d head out to a bar afterwards. I was supportive of some of this stuff but not all of it. For example I got upset that she went out for drinks afterwards, but not for the lunch as issues needed to be addressed. But I felt that I would like her company after the issues had been discussed. We were under stress in our relationship and she told me “Why would I come home to you when we’re arguing all the time”.

Things boiled to an ugly head about 6 or 7 weeks ago. She and I had both been drinking and an argument started. Things got pretty heated quite quickly and she came at me waving her finger in my face, screaming at me. I told her to back off or I would knock her out. This was very wrong of me I know. I have never been (or ever would be) violent towards any woman. She has subsequently backed me up on this to her family. She called her brothers that evening and they were on their way around to our place. Our argument continued in the meantime and she ended up hitting me – I turned to move away but she ended up scratching my neck with her nails and then pushed me into the door of our son’s bedroom. I reacted badly and called the police, firstly for her hitting me and secondly as her brother’s were on their way and I didn’t know what was going to happen. The police came and asked her to leave the apartment. Her family thinks I’m crazy for calling the police on her. I asked her brother if the boot was on the other foot – would they support her in calling the police. He said Yes but she’s a woman so she couldn’t hurt me.

Her brother who has trained to be a priest for 5yrs and is generally a reasonable man, offered to mediate. We agreed and went over to try and resolve our differences. Her issue was that as we had only one car and she was stuck in the house all day she wanted to get out once I got home as she had cabin fever. She said she felt I was controlling her as I got mad sometimes when she went out. She also said she felt I was smothering her.

I said that I just wanted my wife to want to spend time with me and show me some affection. We celebrated our 2nd Wedding Anniversary out here and she didn’t even get me a card let alone a gift. I got her some sexy underwear, some flowers, a beautiful card and some Champagne.

We both agreed that while I was adjusting to this new life that I was pulling her towards me as I need her support and love and she was pulling away as she felt smothered and controlled. So we agreed on a plan to understand one another and try to support each other better and give our marriage a good go.

Things got better for about 3 or 4 weeks – the odd row which escalated – usually alcohol fuelled but not to a screaming and shouting point. We let things lie until the morning and usually kissed and made up.

Then Friday just gone happened. Friday 13th!!! We had made plans for the Saturday for her niece to come over and her cousin – I was to cook for them all. But my wife came in from work (she started work 2 weeks ago) and called her niece, she asked me if I had a problem with her going over to see her niece tonight. I said No Problem at all. She said she’d be a couple of hours. Off she went at 7pm. I called her 5mins later and said “Hey, you know why I didn’t have a problem?” she said “No”, I said “well I thought that maybe I might get a reward when you get home” – I was trying to facilitate some intimacy between us - as our sex life is non-existent. She has told me that that is due to her not feeling an emotional connection with me – so all this last week, I’ve really tried hard to connect with her again so bearing in mind she’s been upset at leaving our son to start her job, I’ve dropped him off at day care later than she would and picked him up earlier. When I’ve done that, I’ve gotten home and cleaned up the apartment so it’s nice and tidy when she gets home, I’ve made dinners for when she gets back and presented her with a glass of wine – stuff to make her know I’m thinking of her and trying to make things easier on her.

Anyways, she went out and said she’d be a couple of hours. At 10:15pm she called, she sounded very drunk and admitted she was. She said she was finishing a bottle of wine and that she’d call me later. I said OK. She then called at 11:15pm and said she’d finished that wine, was opening some beer as they’d run out of wine and that she was too drunk to drive so wasn’t coming home. I got upset and told her I was upset as I wanted her to come home and her and I to be intimate. She went beserk and started screaming at me down the phone that I always have a problem with her hanging out with her family, that I was being controlling and why couldn’t I just chill out. I lost my temper then too and told her not to bother coming back at all, that if she wanted to see her son again she’d have to take me to court. Her niece comes on the phone and calls me a “f**king a**hole”, all the good stuff. So 20mins later she arrives at the apartment having drunk driven the 7miles back. I told her she wasn’t coming in and she’d better go back to her niece’s as planned. She went mad again and called all her family to tell them I’d locked her out of her apartment. I called her brother who told me in no uncertain terms to let her in. So I did and we went to bed – separately.

The next morning she kind of admitted that the last night was her fault and she said she just can’t go out with her family at all as I get upset. This is not the case at all – I just want her to do what she says she will do.

If anyone has any advice at all on my situation – then please feel free to give it. I don’t know where to turn anymore. The woman I’m with now is not the woman I married. She involves her family in almost all of our arguments and this is now turning them against me. I’m isolated enough over here without having none of her family to talk to either.

Thanks for reading and sorry it took so long to write.

Muddy

Jenn
18th November 2009, 09:22 PM
Hi Muddy:

What a stressful situation for you to be in.

I am no expert by any means, but I wanted to share with you some of my thoughts on your situation.

I am stating the obvious, but it has to be said... It is NEVER a good idea to talk about issues while you are drinking; my husband and I have done this in the past and now I avoid any tense issues when we are enjoying a few drinks; things can go from bad to worse VERY quickly when drinks are involved and you always end up saying and doing things you don't mean.

I don't think it's right for a woman to assault a man and calling the police was the right thing to do (even if it was just to scare her). I think her families reaction to the situation is a natural one, but not necessarily right.

Funny, she said she needed to go out because she had "cabin fever", but still does it even when she gets a job. For some reason, she finds it more enjoyable to be outside of the home without you or her son.. hmmmm...

It sounds to me, from what you have said, that you have a control issue with your wife, perhaps she is rebelling against you; again, not necessarily the right reaction, but a natural one.

You telling your wife that you expect a "reward" for allowing her to go over to her nieces probably wasn't the best thing to do. You are making it sound like she needs your "permission" and that this would only be granted if you got something (sexual favours) in return.

Why can't you go out together and get a sitter?

It sounds like she needs some sensitivity around the fact that you are away from your family and only have hers (in a different country at that) - I can magine why you feel so isolated.

Lastly, receiving mediation by your wife's brother is probably not going to be enough. He is not a neutral person in all of this.

Good luck to you!

Jenn

ken94
19th November 2009, 12:05 AM
Another thought, she seems to drink quite often. Has she got drinking problem. May this be related to the behaverment of her father ?

I don't think the intimate route should be sexual at first but as Jenn mentionned going on a date with her.

I think Jenn has had some good thoughts and advices to you.

Courage

Ken

muddy mudguard
19th November 2009, 01:59 AM
Well thanks to you both for making your replies.

I think Jenn does raise some very valid points. I am a little confused though. I do think there's an element of me being controlling, but I also think that I'm not being unreasonable. Having just moved halfway across the world to be with my wife and give her the life she so wanted, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in 'expecting' her to be there for me while I make this adjustment - or am I??

I have tried to be supportive of her and her social activities. I have also offered on a few occassions for her to go do something on her own - so I am certainly trying to be supportive and not controlling. Do you think it might also be that she's trying to control me?? My sister thought this maybe the case as I am the one constantly left with our son. Even when we go out together - it's invariably to a family function or something and I am left to entertain our son while she socialises with her family. The latest example of this was her cousin's 50th Birthday party. Our son got tired at 6pm, so I went into the house to sit with him on the sofa. She did a 20min stint with him but was outside the rest of the time. Also, she knows I have no friends over here yet, so there's nowhere I can go to socialise.

With regards to the 'reward' bit, I was actually trying to facilitate being intimate with her but also making light of the situation at the same time. She actually reacted well to it on the phone when I mentioned it. But I understand how it might be misconstrued. She did seek my approval to go out - but not my permission - I told her I didn't have a problem with it and to go enjoy herself. My issue with that night was that she always seems to push the envelope - going out for a few drinks and a girly catch up/evening is never enough, it always ends up being an 'all-nighter'. I do think she has a problem with alcohol - although I wouldn't say she's an alcoholic. With her starting work, the midweek drinking has stopped to some degree - so I guess I'll see how that pans out.

Thanks again for your replies.

Muddy

Raymond
19th November 2009, 02:10 PM
Maybe she missed all this in the UK without her family and is now making up for it.

Maybe it will pan out eventually when she has re-adjusted?

Raymond

Jenn
19th November 2009, 03:25 PM
Hi Muddy:

Sorry, I picked up on the "controlling" bit because you said she thought you were being controlling; if she thinks this, she may be rebelling...

Absolutely, I don't think you are being unreasonable by wanting your wife to support you while you are adjusting - it must be hard for you.

I agree with Raymond, she may be adjusting as well and trying to get it "out of her system". Hopefully, this will die down.

Sounds like your wife has a hard time stopping once she has started drinking. When she drinks she probably loses consideration for her responsibilities and is only living in the moment, which is why a mere visit turns into an all-night bash. She needs to prioritize her life.

and, hey, try to get involved in something you enjoy, you need time for yourself too.

Jenn

muddy mudguard
19th November 2009, 03:31 PM
Maybe she missed all this in the UK without her family and is now making up for it.

Maybe it will pan out eventually when she has re-adjusted?

Raymond

That's kind of how I'm approaching it. My biggest fear though is that perhaps this doesn't happen and the woman I married when we were in the UK is not the woman I choose to spend the rest of my life with.

To be quite honest her drinking is an issue although it's not related to the death of her father - she has always drank a lot.

You know I do try to be supportive of everything she does, but I feel the same isn't applied to me.

I'll give you another example - we actually had another mediation session on Sunday evening with her cousin. It was agreed that we need to talk about managing our own expectations and agree a workable plan to move forward. So Monday we had a 30minute discussion about what needs to change in one another for both of us to be happier.
My wife started and said that I need to stop giving her grief if she falls asleep with our son when putting him to bed. I took that on the chin but also pointed out that since she has started work that that hasn't happened as I understand both the physical and mental tiredness that comes from being at work. Additionally (and I didn't bring this up) but when we argued on the Friday about her being out all night, she told me that she spends every weekday evening with me at home and that I should recognize that and realize that she needs some 'her' time. But when do we really spend time together in the evenings if she's in bed asleep herself at 8pm with our son?
The logisitics behind it is that we arrive home from work at 6pm, either one of us cooks the dinner, we sit and feed our son, this takes us to 7:15pm or 7:30pm - then we have to bath him before bedtime and before you know it, it's 8pm and he's ready for bed, so we both go into his room, I read him his night time story and then she lays with him until he falls asleep. Invariably she will fall asleep with him which means - that as a couple we don't spend ANY time together alone in the evening.

muddy mudguard
19th November 2009, 03:43 PM
Hi Muddy:

Sorry, I picked up on the "controlling" bit because you said she thought you were being controlling; if she thinks this, she may be rebelling...

Absolutely, I don't think you are being unreasonable by wanting your wife to support you while you are adjusting - it must be hard for you.

I agree with Raymond, she may be adjusting as well and trying to get it "out of her system". Hopefully, this will die down.

Sounds like your wife has a hard time stopping once she has started drinking. When she drinks she probably loses consideration for her responsibilities and is only living in the moment, which is why a mere visit turns into an all-night bash. She needs to prioritize her life.

and, hey, try to get involved in something you enjoy, you need time for yourself too.

Jenn

Hi Jenn,

Thanks for your reply and I didn't mean to devalue your opinion - I really am trying to work on things for my marriage's sake and appreciate all opinions offered.

I am certain that in the past I have been controlling and to some extent I suppose I am still - well I'm not sure controlling is actually the right word - maybe needy and I certainly have no problems in conveying my neediness to her - this is where I think she gets the 'controlling' feelings from.

I don't have a problem in telling her I'm upset either and when I do (and she's been drinking) her reaction is seriously over the top. It's when she reacts in this way that I then become more emotional and my reaction then goes over the top also. That's when all hell let's loose and the whole thing escalates way out of proportion.

I think the comment you raised yesterday when you said it sounds like she has more fun outside the house than in it with me and our son is crazy true!!! I remember in England when we'd sit up till 2 or 3am nursing a Scotch and playing Chess with each other, chatting and listening to some music. Those days are gone - I've tried to bring them back and offered to play chess with her again but each time I've suggested something like that - I'm told 'no'. I really don't know what else to suggest. How do I get my best friend back?

Hopefully as Raymond said this is something she needs to get out of her system and it will pass in time.

Oh the other thing we have at the moment is my son in England - I fought tooth and nail to have good contact with him while I'm over here and Christmas is coming up - well I have to fly back to England and bring him over here for a week. She is now telling me that we can't afford the airfare and I should stay in England for the week to see my son alone - without my wife or other son, returning on Boxing Day to the US. I don't know how to approach this with her and she just puts up her defense system and won't see things from my point of view - we both made a commitment to my 9yr old and have to make sacrifices in our new life in order to make him feel comfortable with the fact his Daddy now lives in the USA. My wife is not making those sacrifices. I told her before we moved that in order for this move to be successful that contact with my 9yr old was paramount. She agreed and we moved forwards together on that basis and now that we are here, she's telling me she thinks that while we get on our feet again we shouldn't be having my son over.

When we first arrived he was due over for 3 weeks to stay and I did go get him, it coincided with me beginning work and my wife (a stay at home mother) was with him daily for the 3 weeks, she has held this against me and before he came over suggested he shouldn't come. Plus she keeps telling me that having him over here prevented her from looking for a job and consequently led to a delay in getting us back on our feet quicker.

While I agree with some of what she says, I did spell this out to her before we moved and I feel that I need her support more on this point - that brings me back to my original point - neediness!! ; ) Any suggestions?

Jenn
19th November 2009, 04:08 PM
Hi Muddy:

My husband and I spend most of our leisure time together, we too stay up late and have a few drinks, listen to music, watch tv, play board games. We love spending all our time together. We occasionally have people over or go out as well, but together. That's my husband and me - maybe we're both needy and it's a perfect blend - don't know.

However, from where I sit, I really don't think that you are being too needy. It sounds like, as you say, your wife is your best friend and really all you need is her and she isn't there for you. it sounds like she is happiest on her own with others - I understand this would make you feel unloved and uncared for. Yours and your wife's priorities are clashing....

Can you afford to have your son stay with you over Christmas or is she trying to keep him (and you) away...? I'm not saying this is true or what I think, but something for you to reflect on.

Raymond
19th November 2009, 08:12 PM
Going back to the earlier thread about the adjusting to things MM.

I think you have to trust at the moment that it is a big thing to her to re-relate to her family. It seems to be only at weekends as she is with you all week when work is finished. You do seem to have a very headstrong wife but that can work for good in the right circumstances.

If she falls asleep when getting your son asleep I don't think there is much you can do about that. If we can't fall asleep at home when we are very tired where can we? I would let it pass. All I can say is that she seems to get very tired from work.

You obviously feel a bit ignored at the moment through the rush she seems to get with the family things just now. Men can feel this sometimes when wives are taken up with other things, especially when you haven't got your own friends yet. The thing is not to get the POM's (poor old me) as it doesn't become us. Once things are settled it should be different. If there are no signs of it easing off say within three months then I think it resonable to talk together.

You should be her priority but you cannot force that, as done unwillingly it is not worth much. I would give it time.

Raymond

muddy mudguard
19th November 2009, 10:39 PM
You bunch are awesome. You're helping me to put things into perspective. Not only that but although I'm over the other side of the world, it's nice to know that someone somewhere shares some of the same views as I do.
So far whenever I've tried to broach the subject with her, all I'm met with is objections as to how I need to adapt and that our families are so different that I need to change and not expect so much of her. But all I want is the relationship we had in England - just over here. I appreciate that things won't ever be quite the same as she has her family over here and I try to be supportive of her seeing them, but I do miss my wife and the closeness we shared.
In respect of my son coming over at Christmas - it is an awful lot of money but if we made other sacrifices, I'm sure we could scrape by. My wife right now wants to buy a new TV (ok on $250) and new table and chairs ($400) but this is money we could put towards the tickets...she says we need the TV and table etc ahead of my son coming and that paying out the money on airfare is of detriment to our lives over here...I don't know I think there's an element of resentment towards my eldest son but I know she'd never admit it. We are still trying to get on our feet so it would be far less of a hassle if it was just one ticket, but it would also be nice if she gave me that decision to make and let me know I had her support whichever I chose - am I being unreasonable in that?

Raymond
20th November 2009, 10:00 AM
No I don't think you are. It is your son for goodness sake. He is more important than a new TV and chairs. She is being a bit unreasonable here I think. The other things can wait a little I would have thought. Hold your ground here I think but still love her not in a doormat kind of way though.

I sometimes think it's you verses her and her brothers. I hope I am wrong. The marriage is between you two not them.

Raymond

muddy mudguard
20th November 2009, 02:49 PM
No I don't think you are. It is your son for goodness sake. He is more important than a new TV and chairs. She is being a bit unreasonable here I think. The other things can wait a little I would have thought. Hold your ground here I think but still love her not in a doormat kind of way though.

I sometimes think it's you verses her and her brothers. I hope I am wrong. The marriage is between you two not them.

Raymond

I actually think it's me versus her niece, one of her sisters, her other niece and her brother.
Basically she's told her family all sorts of things about me that I personally don't think she should have done. I've told her this but then she goes back to her family to tell them that I don't like her speaking to them.
I get mad at this because it's not true, I think if she wants to share stuff with them - that's fine because we all need support from our families, I just told her to be careful as to how much she tells them otherwise it'll start to effect my relationship with them.
So here's another example, Thursday last week, we actually spent about 2hrs of an evening together (first time in a long time) and we were having a bit of a chat about our situation, I opened my heart to her about my insecurities - basically due to my previous marriage - I told her I was worried about our relationship and had an insecurity that because our marriage has been suffering for a long time and that she's not happy in it, we also have financial stresses but that's going away with her returning to work, don't get me wrong - we have no debt, but we're not used to living paycheck to paycheck - so I felt that while she was at work, working with wealthy lawyers, that her head might get turned and I was concerned about it. I told her that if we were in a better place emotionally ourselves that I wouldn't be too worried, but I was trying to talk to her about my insecurity, she then proceeds to tell all of her family who she has said now think I'm being ridiculous.
Well you know - ridiculous I might be in thinking that, but surely that should stay between my wife and I...
I dunno - maybe not, maybe it's just something I have to deal with better myself.

Jenn
20th November 2009, 03:26 PM
I agree with Raymond, your son is more important than a new tv or table and chairs (questioning her priorities again).

Your wife needs to stop talking to her family! They are not supporting you and they won't because they are invested in her, not you.

I have always been of the opinion that once you share something negative about your spouse with your family, YOU may move on from it, but THEY never forget it.... She is creating a toxic situation.

Jenn

Ageing Grace
20th November 2009, 08:01 PM
I actually agree with everything Raymond and Jenn have said, above, MM.

Just a couple of questions regarding a totally different approach, though:
1] Can't you fully embrace your in-laws? Join in everything, go out bowling (or whatever they do) with the brothers, ring them for frequent chats & so on.
2] What are the chances of shipping your son over to you for the holidays, instead of you coming here?

Thanks.
AG

Jenn
20th November 2009, 09:13 PM
I just realized I said "Your wife needs to stop talking to her family!", I meant about your problems, not overall.

AG: Great thought on having his son come over alone...

muddy mudguard
23rd November 2009, 03:47 AM
The idea is to fly my son over from the UK to spend Xmas with us over here. The other suggestion is that I fly to the UK on my own and fly back on Xmas eve. Giving me 1week over there or 1 week with him over here.
I have tried to integrate with her family, I've been to watch American Football with one of her brother's but the rest of them tend to keep their distance. He and I get on pretty good but at the end of the day blood is thicker than water n'all that.
We actually had her brother, sister and cousin over on the weekend, it turned out alright, but her brother did start giving out to me about England and how we've always been told what to do and how to behave due to us having a monarchy. I'm not bothered about that as there's no escaping ignorance wherever you go! However I didn't rise to the bait and was my normal pleasant self.
The niece that was swearing at me down the phone I saw this afternoon as I was out getting a hair cut and called my wife, she told me she needed to go to her niece's this afternoon to pick up our son's jacket she had left there, I said I'd go if she wanted and she agreed as it was just up the road from where I was. So I went and was v polite to the cousin - but she obviously felt awkward and conversation was really non-existent. Ah well - I'm trying - up to them if they don't want to know or make an effort themselves.

Raymond
23rd November 2009, 11:38 AM
However you get on with her family MM your marriage is more important and is a seperate entity. I feel you need to make your mark at work and with your own friends as well. I think you are doing well and think that things will fall into some kind of order eventually. I know your wife has faults but so have you probably. So long as she is faithful there is something to work on whatever her faults. We all have them.

Raymond

"You and your companion should resolve never, never to make uncomplimentary comments about one another to anyone at anytime. Good habit patterns are best established during your courtship. Never stoop to demeaning words that hurt. "
Russell M. Nelson, BYU Devotional, Jan 7, 1990


"What counts in making a happy marriage is not so much how compatible you are, but how you deal with incompatibility."
George Levinger

Ageing Grace
23rd November 2009, 07:13 PM
Hello again, MM :) How are things?

I feel you need to make your mark at work and with your own friends as well. I think you are doing well and think that things will fall into some kind of order eventually.

I totally agree with this! It must be easy to forget that - just as your wife had to deal with living in a foreign country - you now need to find your feet in your new home. Railing against "what it is not" can only slow your progress. Relax & enjoy, then life will start falling into place.

Wishing you well!
AG

muddy mudguard
24th November 2009, 12:00 AM
Thank you kindly to all of you - we actually had quite a good day on Sunday - we started off with a small row on Saturday evening, but on Sunday morning I got up early and went to get her the morning paper - when I got back I asked her (very tongue in cheek) if we could pretend to like each other today! It got the laugh I hoped for and consequently we had a good day together...

Thanks again for your kind wishes!

Ageing Grace
24th November 2009, 01:14 AM
I asked her (very tongue in cheek) if we could pretend to like each other today! It got the laugh I hoped for and consequently we had a good day together...

That really made me smile, MM :D
Thanks!