The Children....

[arcos]

I am looking for some practical advice regarding the children.

There is a thread here on my story so I wont bother going over that again.

However, a little recent background....

During a business trip early October my ex decided to move back into the house with the children, with the police to move out my house sitters. I was a long way away and could not get back to stop this happening. This had the instant effect of making me homeless and officeless.

On my return I stayed with friends and now am renting a house.

All this is of no real significance as my ex has decided to withold access to the children. Yes this is all going into court in the next week or two, instigated by me as there was no movement on the divorce when I returned. She had sacked her original lawyer and had not instructed a new one. So I started court process to get custody of the children.

Two days later a complaint was made by my ex to the police. I was given a date to go and hear the complaint and make my own statement. This involved 7 hours of questioning and statements. The complaint? Psychological and sexual abuse for the past 6 years!

I won't go into the details suffice to say that she has done this to throw mud at me and hoping that some of it sticks when it comes to the custody battle.

None of her allegations are true, a lot of allegations can be refuted by witnesses and through other legal means.

The thing that is going around in my head right now is whether I should continue with the custody battle? Not because of the criminal action that I have against me but for the sake of the boys.

Isnt this battle affecting them? Yes they are young and do not fully understand what is going on but if I keep pushing for custody it has an affect on my ex which in turn WILL affect the children.

IF things don't go my way and I only get limited access, as she is suggesting, should I walk away completely?

I know that, in the future, I will be able to look my boys in the eyes and tell them the truth.

Any advice is welcomed!!

Thanks

[jellybean28]

What an awful position you are in Arcos,

If you know you can clear your name, I would be inclined to suggest you fight for your boys. I would suggest tell your lawyer you are worried about your wifes mental health and ask for an assement to be made on her this may help your case. Even if you end up getting limited access don't walk away from your boys, have as much contact with them as you can get.
That way as they get older they can make up their own minds.
My brother-in-law, walked away from his girls even though he had limited access and they have chosen not to see him anymore, as they were poisoned by their mother that he didn't love or care about them. This has caused him great sadness.

[arcos]

Hi Jellybean28

Thanks for your reply.

It is a terrible situation and her actions have been disgraceful.

The criminal process is not my concern, although it is a worry. My concern, and my confusion, is the children.

Of course everything could go my way in a week or two and I will be granted custody, the likelyhood is that I will be given legal access with the decision of custody being made in the main court. The criminal action is going to cloud this process however.

I do believe that the boys, as they get older, will make their own decision. This gets slightly more complicated by the fact that she wants to take the boys back to her own country. Yes it is my country too but the boys were not born there and we currently live in the country where the youngest was born!

In the past we have BOTH agreed that the boys are better off here than in the UK! But that now has obviously changed!

I feel as though I am in a catch 22....

I don't want to hurt them further by making a fight for custody but I dont want to give them up!

Of course IF the criminal action gets into court and by some chance I am found guilty then the decision will be made for me! With up to 5 years in prison I would have no access and no chance of custody EVER!

[jellybean28]

I be getting the best legal advice I can if I were you. I'm going to re-read your eariler posts, I rember reading them before.

I really don't understand how your wife could do this to you. :mad:

Try and stay positive, and don't show any anger towards her (so difficult I know), as this will only give her more fuel to use against you.

Remeber you have lots of support here
Take care Acros

[Raymond]

I think you owe it to your boys to stay part of their lives. They will need your influence. Yes they may see that you were alright when they grow up but that won't help their upbringing now. You have to fight I'm afraid, for everything it seems.

Raymond

[arcos]

Hi Jellybean

I Have pretty good legal advice! There are very few lawyers here who I would say are up to UK standards but I have as good as it gets in this neck of the woods!

My ex has and continues to make life as difficult as possible and then places the blame onto me!!

I am where I have always been, calm, reflective and conciliatory. Yes, it is VERY difficult to remain calm sometimes. Finding a quiet space and screaming for an hour helps!!

The support here is excellent and helps to guide ones mind into the right place.

Right now with all of this confusion and words from others I am simply not sure which road to take.

Hi Raymond

Your words, as always, are true. I wonder if there is a different opinion out there who feels that stopping trying is the better option for the boys? I would like to hear that side too!

[Jenn]

Not sure how much I can offer, but my suggestion would be that you don't walk away from your children!!!!

You have to believe that, eventually, everyone will see your ex for what she is, including your boys.

I don't imagine your boys have the best life with your ex as it is, so not having you a part of it, I imagine, would make it worse for them.....

Best of Luck!

Jenn

[arcos]

Thanks Jenn

In my heart I know that this would be the right approach.

My head is saying to me, as others have said, that it may be better to stop the fight for custody, ease the pressure on the ex, ease pressure on the children, accept that I won't get access anyway.

Perhaps looking at extremes is not the right way forward. Perhaps I should just accept whatever access I get and hope that I can influence their lives in a positive way.

Confusion. Confusion. Confusion!

[Ageing Grace]

accept that I won't get access anyway.

Why won't you get access, Arcos?

Portuguese law, like that of other European countries, prefers shared access unless one parent has criminal convictions for abuse.

Adversarial divorce is more prevalent in Portugal than in the UK, but your situation would be adversarial in any country ... If you want residential care of your children, you're in a position where you have no choice but to fight for it.

I would have thought it advantageous to apply for residential, even if you're sure won't get it. The courts will want to see how keen you are to parent your boys. Surely your lawyer isn't telling you not to fight?

:confused:
AG

[georgie]

Hi Arcos, My Dad left when I was six. My mother is an impossible person to put it mildly and made it very difficult for him, so he gave up probalby for reasons similar to your own and we had no contact with him until I trackd him down when I was 21. Bottom line is I still feel let down by him for not fighting for us. I understand his reasoning, but he left us with a bitter increasingly irrational woman in total control of our lives, we had nowhere to go to to escape the 'difficulty'. I have a good relationship with him now, but not the relationship we could have had, becuase some things cannot be regained once lost. x

[arcos]

Why won't you get access, Arcos?

Portuguese law, like that of other European countries, prefers shared access unless one parent has criminal convictions for abuse.

Adversarial divorce is more prevalent in Portugal than in the UK, but your situation would be adversarial in any country ... If you want residential care of your children, you're in a position where you have no choice but to fight for it.

I would have thought it advantageous to apply for residential, even if you're sure won't get it. The courts will want to see how keen you are to parent your boys. Surely your lawyer isn't telling you not to fight?

:confused:
AG

Hello AG

Hope you are well?

This is definitely an adversarial divorce!!

No my lawyer is NOT telling me to give up. She has actually said that IF she didnt think that I was 'right' for the boys then she would not act on my behalf!

I have been confused by mixed messages about 'fighting' for the boys hence coming back here to seek the wisdom of people who may have some first hand experience!

The criminal action that has been started against me AFTER I put into court a process to get residential custody would, if proven, blow away any chance of residential custody and would, once out of prison, give me only limited, possibly supervised, access to the children.

The biggest problem here in Portugal is fathers, and mothers in some cases, not wanting anything to do with the children after divorce. Quite often absconding even before any decisions have been made. I have been told that the fact that I am fighting for custody of the boys will put me in a good light with the courts here.

I can only hope!

[arcos]

Hi Arcos, My Dad left when I was six. My mother is an impossible person to put it mildly and made it very difficult for him, so he gave up probalby for reasons similar to your own and we had no contact with him until I trackd him down when I was 21. Bottom line is I still feel let down by him for not fighting for us. I understand his reasoning, but he left us with a bitter increasingly irrational woman in total control of our lives, we had nowhere to go to to escape the 'difficulty'. I have a good relationship with him now, but not the relationship we could have had, becuase some things cannot be regained once lost. x

Thanks Georgie

I think this puts my mind at rest.

I do not want to give up the fight for the boys, not one bit. If I thought that they would be better of with their mother I think I am adult enough to admit it and accept regular access. However, I DO NOT believe that they would be better of with her and that is my dilemma!

I have been confused by well meaning friends who have no knowledge or experience of this type of situation. Your story has made my resolve stronger and I am more determined to fight on!

THANK YOU!!!

[ken94]

Acros,

I am in a different position than you as I have my kids with me. I have been very flexible with my ex as she also told I was abusive. So she went off to a woman shelter but after few months she decided to give me the kids back. She was and still live in fantasy land. It is due to her past, her childhood. And I am conviced the kids are better of with me. I have 3 girls and they love me, they don't ask much for their mother.

I didn't have to fight for my kids but in some way it is as bad and certainly more hurtful because SHE didn't fight for them. One positive thing is both of you fight for the kids IMHO.

But you have to consider how your ex is stable or just want to hurt you ?
I have some questions:
What is the childhood of your wife ? Difficult ?
Why do you think you will go to jail ?

I think you should fight for them as they will appreciate later in their life.
Someone fighting for you is always good !
And Georgie is right.

[arcos]

Acros,

I am in a different position than you as I have my kids with me. I have been very flexible with my ex as she also told I was abusive. So she went off to a woman shelter but after few months she decided to give me the kids back. She was and still live in fantasy land. It is due to her past, her childhood. And I am conviced the kids are better of with me. I have 3 girls and they love me, they don't ask much for their mother.

I didn't have to fight for my kids but in some way it is as bad and certainly more hurtful because SHE didn't fight for them. One positive thing is both of you fight for the kids IMHO.

But you have to consider how your ex is stable or just want to hurt you ?
I have some questions:
What is the childhood of your wife ? Difficult ?
Why do you think you will go to jail ?

I think you should fight for them as they will appreciate later in their life.
Someone fighting for you is always good !
And Georgie is right.

Hi Ken94

I am pleased that your story worked out for you and your children.

When my ex left she left me with the children for about 3 weeks and had very little contact with them other than the eldests birthday. Other than that she made no effort to see them or have contact with them. I wanted her to see the boys as I felt that it was the right thing. This, unfortunately, has back fired on me big time. Once she had access she then wanted more and more until the situation we are in today.

To answer your questions. The ONLY reason for her to fight for custody is spite. She does not truly want the boys. Since we separated she has continually used them as a weapon against me. She knows I am a good dad and can care for the boys better than she can but she wont allow it for her own selfishness.

She didnt have a great childhood but it was no worse than most. Her parents split up when she was a teen and had a few problems with her mother who was a cronic alcoholic. She lived with her mother for a while and her father over those years and then left home at 17 and moved to London for work. A difficult childhood but not traumatic. There is a family 'problem' of alcoholism and depression however. She has 2 sisters and a brother. 1 sister is a manic depressive and bi polar, likes to drink herself into oblivion on a nightly basis along with various drugs, the brother is a complete drunk and has severe bouts of depression. The only one in the family who is 'normal' is the elder sister who is completely opposite to the rest of the family and holds a steady job, has a successful marriage and lovely kids.

IF the complaint that she has made against me goes through the judicial system and I am found guilty then I WILL go to prison! There is no fine or suspended sentence for this 'crime'. It is a custodial sentence end of story! Of course I do not believe that it will even reach court due to the nature of the complaint, lack of evidence, my statement. However, this is a relatively new law here and as a foreigner, well who knows. The law works in some strange ways sometimes.

I thank you for your words of encouragement. Sometimes it is not always easy to see the wood for the trees when there is so much going on and so many distractions.

I am pleased that everything has worked out for you! I hope that the same can be said of me in a few months time.

[jellybean28]

Hi Arcos

I went back and read your other thread. You may have to be prepared to use your wifes drinking against her, seems she had a real problem with it.
Also have you bought up her friends she went to live with, they didn't seem to be very nice. Sure you've talked about it with your lawyer, if not it may be worth bringing it up. Even her familys mental problems may be worth while mentioning at this point, anything to help your case.

Sounds like you've got a good lawyer, glad you have a female lawyer, this can only be of benifit in your case.

Hoping it all works out for you Arcos
Gillian

[ken94]

If YOU use HER weaknesses then be prepare for the worst !!!!
I would discourage to use it as it can bring the worst in your wife.
So I am opposed to what jellybean28 said IMHO.
Be nice to her.

[arcos]

Hi Arcos

I went back and read your other thread. You may have to be prepared to use your wifes drinking against her, seems she had a real problem with it.
Also have you bought up her friends she went to live with, they didn't seem to be very nice. Sure you've talked about it with your lawyer, if not it may be worth bringing it up. Even her familys mental problems may be worth while mentioning at this point, anything to help your case.

Sounds like you've got a good lawyer, glad you have a female lawyer, this can only be of benifit in your case.

Hoping it all works out for you Arcos
Gillian

Hi Gillian

I am very lucky in finding my lawyer. She is VERY good once she is working for me. Communications are something of a frustration but that is the same everywhere here!

Due to the nature of this separation and the complete animosity coming from her side I have only now had to defend myself by mentioning some things that I would have preferred not to mention, drinking for one.

I completely understand what Ken94 is talking about and as I say, up until now, I have kept her weaknesses out of everything in an attempt to resolve things amicably. However, there does come a time when one cannot be the 'adult' anymore due to the situation. Believe me if I could have avoided this I would but I now have to start playing hard ball otherwise I am just going to end up in some serious trouble and without any chance of seeing the children.

From day 1 I have tried to a) reconcile b) be reasonable c) resolve without lawyers d) resolve with lawyers all to no avail. I have been forced into a corner through my own actions or rather lack of actions. I now have to stand up and fight fair or foul but honest.

I really do understand Ken94 your sentiments but my position is very difficult now and I cannot simply roll over and hide under a stone which is what she wants me to do. I am not sure that there is much worse to come out of my ex!!

[jellybean28]

Hi Arcos

Sounds like you can't do any more Arcos.

Stay strong and positive for your boys. Keep posting.

Take care Arcos

[arcos]

Distraught!!!!!!!!

I have now received a letter from the court with the preliminary custody hearing of 21st January 2010!!

Now, I was led to believe that it would be a matter of a couple of weeks for the preliminary hearing about custody, especially as I am being refused access. I cannot believe that I am going to have to wait until 21st January for the hearing!!

My lawyer is also amazed with the length of time to the hearing. She is again going to try and bring this date forward, especially as she cannot actually do the 21st January as she is already in court for a judgment.

It now dawns on me that Christmas is only a matter of weeks away and I am not so sure that I can do Christmas without seeing the boys :(

[Jenn]

I'm so sorry to hear it, Acros! I really hope it works out for you.

[jellybean28]

Sorry to hear it Arcos. I hope it all works out for you.

Can you make plans to be with friends over the Christmas break? Or do something to keep yourself busy, what's the weather like where you are at that time of they year, if it's good and you are handy, maybe you could build something for the boys for when you they get to be with you again.

I understand how difficult Christmas will be for you, without your boys, but try to stay positive and look to the future when all this is over and you will have them back.

I will keep you and your boys in my prayers and thoughts, hope that helps.

[arcos]

Sorry to hear it Arcos. I hope it all works out for you.

Can you make plans to be with friends over the Christmas break? Or do something to keep yourself busy, what's the weather like where you are at that time of they year, if it's good and you are handy, maybe you could build something for the boys for when you they get to be with you again.

I understand how difficult Christmas will be for you, without your boys, but try to stay positive and look to the future when all this is over and you will have them back.

I will keep you and your boys in my prayers and thoughts, hope that helps.

Hi Gillian

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

I am only today starting to come to terms with the news! It has been a terrible week. Never felt quite like this before. Just cannot seem to, or want to, do anything. A very heavy heart to carry around is not good for the soul.

Lack of sleep, food and too many cigarettes and one glass of wine too many seems to be the order of the day.

I have managed to drag myself away from the computer and get out and help people for two days with physical work which I had hoped would help. It didnt really but it was good to help friends!

Still no word from my lawyer on whether she has managed to get the date bought forward or not. I know that she is in court until Friday so I am pinning my hopes on some positive news then!

I still have the gifts I bought back from my last trip that I keep looking at and wishing that I could simply give them to the boys. It will just have to wait.

Christmas is going to be difficult and I have plans in place to simply get away from everyone on Christmas day. I can go to friends for the day but they have young children also and it would simply be too much for me!! If it is a nice day then I will take myself off to the beach with a couple of bottles of wine and watch the waves come crashing in. I don't think that my company will be good to inflict on anyone!

Trying to remain strong and keep going but it is tough, real tough.

[Jenn]

Hi Arcos:

Again, sorry to hear what you are going through at the moment.

I LOVE my wine as much as the next guy (or gal),
but too much CAN make you feel worse the next day. I find that it causes hightened sensitivity, lack of motivation and depression.

If you're not eating well and sleep deprived, it's no wonder you feel as terrible as you do (amongst everything else).

It is an awful thing you are going through, but you WILL feel a bit better if you try and look after yourself.

Sorry, not trying to nag, just something I've learned over the years...

Jenn

[arcos]

Hi Arcos:

Again, sorry to hear what you are going through at the moment.

I LOVE my wine as much as the next guy (or gal),
but too much CAN make you feel worse the next day. I find that it causes hightened sensitivity, lack of motivation and depression.

If you're not eating well and sleep deprived, it's no wonder you feel as terrible as you do (amongst everything else).

It is an awful thing you are going through, but you WILL feel a bit better if you try and look after yourself.

Sorry, not trying to nag, just something I've learned over the years...

Jenn

Hi Jenn,

Nag as much as you like, I need it sometimes!

It is not good for the body to only sleep for maybe a an hour or two per night or sometimes not at all. I do go for a day or two without eating and when I do eat it is not so much, it is starting to show.

I manage to keep my drinking 'limited'(?) and never drunk enough to get a hangover in the morning but just enough to make me feel a little better during the evening. Perhaps if I drank a few more glasses than I should then I may sleep a little better.

I have been offered sedative to help me sleep but I simply cannot, will not, go down that route!

Today is the first day for a week that I do not feel as though I am drowning. I hope that over the next few days I will continue to improve and start getting some life back into my soul.

Thanks for the 'nagging' I appreciate it!

[Jenn]

Glad to hear you're feeling a bit better today, Acros. Hopefully, this will improve your sleeping pattern (or lack thereof) :rolleyes:.

Jenn

[jellybean28]

Just a quick Hi Arcos to see if you're OK

Did your lawyer manage to bring the date forward?

Make sure you're looking after yourself

Sending positive vibes yourway

Take care Gillian

[arcos]

A quick update and a BIG thank you to everyone who has been sending me positive thoughts!!

I had the children last weekend :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Words cannot express just how much I have missed them and how fabulously fantatic it was to be with them again.

It was so terribly hard getting to see them that I very nearly gave up!!

During a conversation with my lawyer it transpired that the police have made a mistake with my paperwork and I could actually have direct contact with my ex!!! This resulted in a 'barrage' of emails to her insisting that I have access to the children. Not asking, telling!

I arranged a time, date and place for her to bring the children to and I went and waited. She didnt turn up!

The following week I said that unless she agreed to me seeing the children, without condition, then I would exercise my rights as their father and pick them up from school and have them stay with me for a few days. I would of course let her know when I was going to do this.

This resulted in a number of emails from her threatening all sorts of horrible things happening to me including the police arresting me for abduction! Fortunately here a father has equal rights over children as the mother and, as there are no legal agreements in place they could do nothing to stop me.

This was made very clear to her and she obviously consulted with her lawyer. During this week she also received a letter from the court forcing her to respond within 5 days as to why she was refusing access.

Well, all of this combined in, for me, the right result!

I had the children from Friday through to Monday and we had a fantastic time. It coincided with a friends birthday where there were children entertainers, face painters and alike on Saturday and the local market on Sunday where the boys just love playing with all of the other children. They have not been to one market since she refused me access!

I have the boys again tomorrow for the weekend!!! :D:D:D:D:D

I think that there is a moral to this story.....

NEVER GIVE UP!!!!

No matter how black it gets or how hard things are just keep trying!

I nearly gave up, several times, it is documented on this forum. I am so glad that I didnt!!

It is thanks to some of our friends here that I didnt give up so a big thank you to everyone!

[Jenn]

Excellent news, Arcos! Funny, you referred to your wife as your ex... did she explain why she left?

Sorry Acros, I just realized I confused your story with Mark's, please ignore my question.

[georgie]

So glad your making positive progress Arcos - enjoy the love, there are always positives in life - they're just a little elusive sometimes. Your sons will always appreciate and love you for fighting for themxxx

[Raymond]

Great move forward that you now know (and she) for sure you have equal rights of access. Glad you had a wonderful weekend with them. That will be very important to them. They will be looking forward to the next time it can happen I would imagine.

Raymond

[jellybean28]

So happy things are looking better for you Arcos.

The joy you are feeling about seeing your boys came through in your post :D

Your boys will be all the better in knowing that they have a dad who wouldn't give up on them, and it will give hope to others in similar situations. Thank you for sharing you story.

Have a great weekend with your boys :p:p

[arcos]

Thank you everyone for your kind words and encouragement.

It has been a difficult time for me but I am through it and everything else now doesnt really matter!

Have another lovely weekend planned for the boys this weekend along with a trip to the mountains!

Just keep strong and moving forward!!!! :D

[Raymond]

Wow I'm almost getting jealous. Your bonding with them is very important to their upbringing Arcos. It really is.

Have a great time again. This is quite exciting.

Raymond

[georgie]

Hi Arcos,
I'm so delighted for you and your children. I hope you've enjoyed a special and wonderful weekend with them. x

[arcos]

Again my thanks to all here!

We had a fabulous weekend although the eldest was not very well with a nasty cold and temperature. We still made the most of it and enjoyed ourselves. Every second is a very special moment with the boys and, without spoiling them, yes they do get disciplined too, I make sure that they have a special time!

It is only the second weekend in 9 weeks of not seeing the boys and already the eldest does not want to go back to mummy! I kept him off school on Monday as he was still not well so had the unfortunate hand over meeting on Monday afternoon.

He gets so upset not wanting to leave me and go back 'home' with mummy. He is a real 'mummy's' boy or at least used to be. He probably still is but why he doesnt want to leave me to go back with her is touching as well as upsetting. He doesnt get upset when the hand over occurs the other way around from her to me!

I try my very best to be positive and build him up for hand overs and make sure that it is a positive thing that he will have a lovely time with mummy and that if he doesnt go back to mummy then I cant pick him up on Friday etc etc Yet none of this has any effect. He just gets really worked up and upset no matter what I say about him going to mummy.

Any suggestions on how to get over this? I suppose as he gets older he will work out that he can 'manipulate' the situation and have a great time with both of us. I don't know.

[jellybean28]

Hi Arcos

Hope all is well and you had a good Christmas

JB :)

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