Still Stuck...

[Jenn]

My sister says that my husband has turned me against my family and she is partly right... I don't know what to do with this. I always knew she felt this way, but now that she has said something I feel I have to do something about it.

Brief Family history: grew up with various family members/friends and 6 months in foster care. Lived with single dad from age 11 - 18. Dad treated me like his wife (emotional support (would tell me at a young age that he wanted to kill himself, etc, indirect sexual flirtation, smacking bum, looking down top, innappropriate massaging, etc). He had a short fuse and physically abusive on a few occasions. Sister left home, pregnant, at 16; left me alone. I left home at 18 and moved into a shelter for one month, didn't talk to dad for 18 months. Never confronted him on issues, other than emotional support stuff.

Husband doesn't know anything other than emotional support stuff and Dad's poor child rearing. I couldn't bear to tell him the sexual stuff, 'cause he would never have anything to do with him.

My dad is married and shows little to no interest in my life. They are now closer to my sister because she moves in watches their dog while they are away for weeks at a time. She doesn't own a home and lives in slum so it's actually a vac for her. We have a great house and are not willing to sacrifice - they would not do it for us. At one time, I would have, but husband has changed my attitude and has made me realize how selfish they are.

I'm soooo confused. I don't know if I have adopted his attitude or if some of it is justified. I got into the habit of calling my dad more often (once a week) but they never call me; is this wrong?

[Raymond]

Are they trying to put guilt on you Jenn because you are getting on? You and your husband are a unit and you have to be for him ahead of them. This doesn't mean you cannot do something nice for them as you have an opportunity but don't throw away what you have. They could pull you down if you ae not careful. Your own family that you have now comes first.

Raymond

[Jenn]

Thank you so much for replying Raymond!

I have felt so guilty over the last several years...

My sister and I were close, I used to live with her and her kids and her boyfriend, (I practically raised her kids). I met my husband, fell in love, and he helped me to grow up and mature (I was 26 and he was 33 at the time, I was living like I was 19 with 2 kids). My sister has not grown up at all and I feel like maybe we've grown apart a bit as a result.

Anyhow, I realize this is not a site for sibling issues, my dilemma is "how much family closeness do you give up for a marriage?". I don't want to have nothing to do with my family, but I AM content with spending most of my time with my husband. It bothers me that my sister and parents are closer and it makes me feel like I'm not being loyal.

[Raymond]

I think you have a false guilt problem Jenn that you have to fight against. You have done well and matured with a stable marriage. That is worth a lot. Never help people out of guilt only out of love. If you help out of love you will feel free. It will be something that you don't have to do, only something that you want to do. If it is out of guilt it can become a prison. Your loyalty is first and formost to your husband. In a way you are better off with a bit of distance I think. You need to grow and be confident and measure how much you can take of them as they seem to be affecting you in a wrong way. There may come a time when you will have more insight to handle the matter better but just now definitely put your marriage relationship first. That is the right thing to do.

Raymond

[clockwork orange]

I agree with Raymond, Jenn. When we first married, we had some difficulty with my sister expecting to continue to have the same claims on my time and resources as she had previously. We had to sit down with her and gently explain that My priority had to be H now. And that I hadn't stopped loving her. Just that my time had to be allocated differently, and that I couldn't continue to support her emotionally to the same degree. A situation that should never have arisen in the first place, I had allowed her to draw on me as if I were her mother for various reasons, which was very hard to detach her from.

Fortunately, we have been able to mature as sisters over the years and are still close in spite of living on opposite sides of the world.

[Jenn]

You guys are the best! Thank you so much for your advice - it's so empowering!

I told my husband this morning what my sister said re: that she thinks he is turning me against the family, he was not happy of course and it has only deepened his discontent for her.

I haven't spoken to my sister in over a week now, since our fight.

My worry now is that they will never speak to eachother which poses a problem on birthdays (my sisters birthday is on Dec 12th) and Christmas time - any advice on what to do?????

[Raymond]

I think it is better that your sister doesn't have to come to you Jenn. If you can go to her, providing you are disposed to, that will be better. So long as you have in your mind where your prime responsibilities lie (to your husband and your marriage) there is no reason why you cannot celebrate her birthday. I wouldn't hear anything against your husband or your marriage though. That will be your sanctuary to go back to.

Don't let them put any guilt on you, as that can be a danger to you.

Raymond

[Jenn]

Thank you so much Raymond!

What do you mean by "providing you are disposed to", must the barrier - I'm Canadian and have never heard this word used in this context before... :rolleyes:

[Raymond]

Hi Jenn. I meant provided it is convenient or that you actually want to go to celebrate your sister's birthday.

Raymond

[Jenn]

Thanks so much for clarifying!

I'm trying very hard not to feel "guilty" or get sucked in by what my sister is saying, but it's difficult...

My husband has said some nasty things about my family, in front of my sister (not about her though). I try to tell my husband that this isn't ok, but he justifies it by saying they don't respect him... he calls my step mom a fat c**t (of course not to her face), amongst other things, and I hate it - it sends shivers up my spine when he says it.... he makes fun of my step mom and dad in front of her and, at first, I think she thought it was funny, but now, well you know...

What do you think? has anyone dealt with this???

[Raymond]

You've never spoken about your husband before Jenn. Obviously he is not perfect and is causing some of the tension here. He should respect people especially your relatives and not run them down. None of us are perfect but we should all be respected. It is OK to judge an action but not the person. Obviously there is tension between your husband and your family that is not helping anything. He has some bitterness there for some reason.

You are in the middle of all this and can not go one way or the other. You can't desert your husband nor write off your family. Somehow you have to be a mediator and encourage each side not to run down or accuse the other as this doesn't help anything. I'm reminded of a rabbit called thumper in the disney film Bambi where his mum coaches him that if he cannot say anything nice then say nothing at all.

I think your best bet is not to receive anything negative about people whether it is coming from your husband or your family. Once you start giving ear to it it will be a kind of gossip that destroys relationships. You need to be strong it seems and need to relate to both sides. Tricky task.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

I kind of feel I'm stating the obvious here, Jenn. Given that both your sister and your husband love you & want you in their lives - they are part of the deal. Someone who loves & cares about you will put up with the people you love, even if they don't like them.

They don't have to get on brilliantly. But, if they respect and care for you, they'd shut up and put up. People do this all the time; it's simply a part of life! Maybe these two need reminding now and again ...

All the best,
AG

[Jenn]

Thanks so much for the advice.

It reaaaaalllly sucks being in the middle! I am veyr sad right now and not sleeping well, tearful, etc.

My husband says he feels closer to me now that I am being supportive to him, but how come I feel like crum!!???? Why can't he be supportive of me and realize how difficult it is for me to be in cahoots with my sister...????!

My step mom's birthday is on Sunday, we are going for dinner, but I haven't talked to my sister and my husband probably won't go...

Do I have a right to be upset if he doesn't go...?

I'm thinking of calling my sister this week to talk...

I just want to run away from it all....

[Raymond]

You can't force hubby to go. All you can do is encourage him when he is getting it right. You can ask for his support in going with you so long as he is not going to say anything to upset your family. Your family is part of you. Hopefully he will recognise that eventually.

Raymond

[Jenn]

So I called me sister today. She said she didn't mean what she said about H turning me against family, that she just said it out of anger and because I was siding with him. She said she knew that I would not let him do this if he was trying.

She said, for my sake, that she is going to apologize for hurting H's feelings, but that things won't be the same because of some of the things he said during the fight. I guess H will have to apologise for that...

I now have to go home and tell H about my conversation wtih her and this upcoming birthday dinner on Sunday.

I guess I am so anxious because I have to deal with his extreme negativity and ranting about my family. What should I say to him when he does this? At what point does an ultimatum come into play? Any Advice??? I worry that I will say the wrong thing and he will think that I am going against him... He is VERY overreactive and sensitive incase you didn't already notice.

[Raymond]

It's nice that your sister apologised Jenn. That is good.

It is difficult for you. You are married to your husband and should be for him as you are a unit and he is your priority. This doesn't mean you are on the side of wrong though. You should also be on the side of truth and if he is being negative you cannot agree to that if it is not true. This is where you need to be strong and that will be for his good too.

Yes you love him but you don't want to encourage wrong behaviour only good. A woman's encouragement to her husband is very important. There is more power in it that most people think. Use it wisely and encourage the good, not the other stuff. You will get opportunities to speak about the wrong stuff in a calm and loving way in an encouraging the good type of way. You cannot change him directly but you can change him through encouragement even if it takes a bit of time.

Whatever you do don't lay into him and be negative to him for it but you can be straight when the opportunity presents itself.

Raymond

[Jenn]

Raymond, thank you so much for being my sounding board, you're words are so positive and encouraging and "pro-marriage" (hard to find these days).

Lately, I find myself trying to focus on the positives about my husband, and he has many. I have to work hard to keep from dwelling on the negative... this has been a problem for me and not fair to him. He is a very negative person and I am no better for thinking this way. I am going to try the positive approach with him....

I chickened out and didn't tell him last night, we were having such a good and relaxing night I didn't want to ruin it.

[Raymond]

You are wise for looking for the positives in him Jenn. It is part of love to look at and appreciate the positives in our spouses. Thats what we would want for ourselves. Yes our partners can also have faults as we have but love can overlook them because we all have faults. I think your encouragement of the good things will bear fruit. He will know that you do not encourage the negative so one doesn't need to be critical which tends to destroy things. This is how you can actually change him in the long run. It is quite powerful and in a sense the whole relationship hinges on what the wife does. If the wife won't work at it there is not much the husband can do. If it's the other way around she can still do a lot through encouragement.

I don't know what you wanted to say to him but last night wasn't an opportunity if it is about your sister. You should get an opportunity to discuss how you feel about your familiy and how it is affecting you. You have to be wise in this and not say it in such a way that it is criticism of him I think. Just a sharing how it is affecting you.

Raymond

[Jenn]

I just got an e-mail from my sister saying that she is now NOT going to apologize to my husband afterall because she has thought about it and feels that HE should apologize to HER. She thinks he overeacted to what she said. She's even saying she didn't say "he would be bitchy" (which she did), but that she said she just "wanted him to have a good time if we were to go away" (which she didn't). Her boyfriend, who has been in the background this whole time, is telling her that she shouldn't apologize, so now it feels like it's us against them.

AAArrrrgghhh, now I'm back to square one!

I am so pissed off with her right now, I can't even respond to her. I am seriously considering NOT going to my step-mom's birthday dinner on Sunday. I think my sister is being a stubborn ass.... Sorry, had to vent.

What should I say back to her? ANY advice would be most appreciated..

[Raymond]

I think it is better that your sister doesn't have to come to you Jenn. If you can go to her, providing you are disposed to, that will be better. So long as you have in your mind where your prime responsibilities lie (to your husband and your marriage) there is no reason why you cannot celebrate her birthday. I wouldn't hear anything against your husband or your marriage though. That will be your sanctuary to go back to.

Don't let them put any guilt on you, as that can be a danger to you.

Raymond

Maybe you are back to the above Jenn apart from the fact that your husband is not perfect either. He's still your husband though. Your sister and your husband need to learn how to get on as it is affecting you. We all need to learn to apologise when we see that we are in the wrong but if someone doesn't see it what can you do?

Lack of apologising when that is needed can alienate people and even spouses. Maybe you can see if your husband can do any better? I'm sure that maybe there is something he can apologise for which will smooth the way. Perhaps his unforthcomingness is getting their backs up becasue it really takes two. Whoever does it first is the wiser person in my book.

Raymond

[Jenn]

I really don't know how to handle this situation anymore..... I feel so numb. I wish I could just say F it and not be so sensitive about it. I try to push it out of my head and minimize it, but WHY does it bother me so much? Perhaps I am overcomplicating things???? I'm sure it seems like such a small issue to some who post here given their circumstances.

I haven't replied to my sister and I'm glad I didn't yesterday because I was pretty heated.

How do I get my husband to see the error of HIS ways without being negative and unsupportive? He WILL get pissed off with me and yell and tell me I'm being unsupportive - he thinks I should only see his way...

How much of this can I take???? Some days I think my life would be easier if I left him.... (ok that just made me cry).

UPDATE:

This is the e-mail I sent my sister today. It actually made me feel better....

I have thought a lot about this (too much in fact) and I have come to the conclusion that I need to take this weight off my shoulders for my own well being.

I can no longer stress myself out wondering what you guys all think of Paul – I don’t care anymore. He is not perfect (no one is), but he is my husband and I will love and support him (even with his flaws).

I’m sure someone will step up to the plate eventually (whether it’s to apologize or just to air out the tension), until then I am not going to concern myself with it anymore.

[muddy mudguard]

Hi Jenn,

With your situation and my situation being a 'little' similar in terms of the family issues, let me share with you something my father said to me the other day - he said "when the family ask how you and H are doing, tell them directly it's between you and H and you don't want to talk about it. The change in approach will make them think it doesn't bother you anymore" - it's that change that sometimes alleviates the issues, or certainly pushes them back onto the family and away from you and H.
A diversion tactic of sorts.
The other thought on this, is that you all sit down like adults and air your views in public, you need to set this up right though with everyone knowing that the idea is to let things go at the end and accept one another, warts n'all...Your family may not like H and he may not like your family - but he is your husband so if they want you around they must accept him - or at the very least be civil.

[Ageing Grace]

WHY does it bother me so much? Perhaps I am overcomplicating things????

God knows why it bothers you so much, Jenn ... Because you want life to be perfect? Because you feel "Love me, love my dog and my sister and my husband"?

Both your husband and your sister are being quite unreasonable. Not only does each of them demand the other give in to their world-view; they also demand that you do, too! Obviously, it's an impasse.

Interestingly, it sounds like you, also, feel everyone 'should' agree with your viewpoint. No wonder it's causing such a lot of aggro :rolleyes:

So, current status:
Your sister won't play nice with your husband, because he will not say she is "right".
Your husband won't play nice with your sister, because she won't say he is "right".
You won't play nice with both of them, because they refuse to be friends - meaning they can't accept that you are "right".

If such stubbornness is part of your family makeup, it's not surprising you chose a stubborn husband. Looks like this kind of thing feels natural to you all! Which is fine until that same, shared, quality causes a rift where it hurts you.

What to do about it? Well, assuming your sister and husband can both live quite happily without each other, the only person with more to gain by stepping down is ... you. Your email to your sister was good, Jenn. But - it was stubborn.

I have thought a lot about this (too much in fact) and I have come to the conclusion that I need to take this weight off my shoulders for my own well being.

I can no longer stress myself out wondering what you guys all think of Paul – I don’t care anymore. He is not perfect (no one is), but he is my husband and I will love and support him (even with his flaws).

I’m sure someone will step up to the plate eventually (whether it’s to apologize or just to air out the tension), until then I am not going to concern myself with it anymore.

See? You did a fantastic job of not allocating blame (the message is all about how you feel). Props to you for that :) At the same time, though, you managed to make it quite aggressive. "Take it or leave it, I'm not playing anymore" ... until you play my way??

How about just chilling? Everybody's wrong here. As you rightly said in your email, nobody's perfect. That's life, so work with what you've got and forgive all of you (yourself included).

Why can't you agree with your sister; yes, your husband is a pig-headed twerp; no wonder she's so annoyed? Same way, isn't your husband right when he insists your sister ought to show a bit more flexibility? Yep - they're both idiots in their own way :D

Then, Jenn, just leave it. Rest assured that you've now created a soft point in this absurdly rigid triangle, and smile sweetly at yourself for it ;)

Have a word with your mum, or whoever's in charge of this family dinner thing, just to let them know you're calm with it all and they needn't worry ... then proceed beatifically as if everything's okay and there never was an argument.

I think it'll work for the general good - nothing to lose, anyway, except an extra worry wrinkle!

AG x

[Jenn]

Hi AG:

Thanks so much for your feeback!

I did go for dinner on Sunday (without H - which was fine). I acted as if everything was ok and, really, I felt like things were ok (for the most part). Everybody else seemed more uncomfortable than me, but relaxed after awhile, probably because of my demeanour. I think they expected a cat fight or something!

I was being a bit stubborn in my e-mail to my sister, perhaps I could have taken a bit of a softer approach. I really just wanted to let her know that "enough was enough", that if they couldn't be "adults" and figure this all out then I wasn't going to worry about it anymore.

I am no longer pushing for anyone to make amends.

My family has a "bury your head in the sand", "sweep it under the rug" kind of existence. This kind of conflict and stubborness really doesn't come natural for me, which is partly why I have had such a difficult time with it.

Although last week I felt so shattered over this whole thing, It has really given me a new outlook. My e-mail to my sister was just what the doctor ordered, it lifted a huge weight off of me. I can't pretend everything is perfect anymore.

I am actually kind of glad this has all happened (wow, did I just say that!?). This way nobody is pretending anymore and, you know what?, I'm still in one piece - imagine that!

I have smiled sweetly to myself many times over the past few days, thanks to all of you and your awesome advice and words of encouragement! ;)

Jenn

[Raymond]

Well done Jenn. You say you are not used to this sort of behaviour so I assume you didn't grow up with your sister.

Whatever, you seem to be learning how to cope with it. None of it is right but is has probably made you a stronger person. Just don't play the ball game when they are like that. I think you were right to opt out of it allunless you find a word of wisdom. You cannot take responisibility for that kind of behaviour and they should know that by now.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Hurray for you, Jenn :D

Long may your sweet smile continue ... well done.

AG x

[yogamad]

Hi Jenn

Just been reading your thread and I know exactly where you're coming from as my H has issues with my family.

I'm still encouraging everyone from both sides to be civil to each other but I refuse to let it get me down any longer. It's their problem, not mine, if they can't get on. I was so low for so long being stuck in the middle, hearing not very nice things from both sides.

[Jenn]

Hi Yogamad:

Does your husband attend family functions with you or do you go without him or not at all? and what do you say to your husband when he says things about your family?

My problem is that noone seems to be bending on their position at this point and with Christmas coming up it looks as though my husband will not be going to my families for Christmas day and I won't go without him.

It just seems like such a simple thing for them to get pass, but they are both soooo stubborn!

I'm having a bad day today, my step mother has left me a message to call her and I know she's going to want to talk about Christmas. Am I right in not going?

Any advice or encouragment from anyone would be great.

Jen

[Jenn]

I could really use some advice/words of encouragement right now...

I just spoke with my step mom and she now has revealed some feelings her and my dad have for my husband.

My dad is upset because my husband did not share with him that he bought a new motorcycle in the summer (my dad owns one as well and they used to ride together, but not anymore 'cause neither one calls the other, probably 'cause my dad always had to call H so he stopped) - (H expects everyone to make the move because he can't stand the rejection if he asks someone and they say no). We went over to my parents one day after H bought the bike and H was asking my dad to start up his bike and looking at his pipes etc, in comparison to his new bike, but never mentioned he got a new bike (wierd - I know). My parents have figured out that he was doing this and are insulted by this (i'm embarassed). My dad found out H got a bike from the dealership that he bought it from and he can't understand why H (his son-in-law)didn't tell him; that they should be closer than this. I don't know why H didn't tell him, if I asked him he would say "F*** it, they don't care what I do, so why should I tell them"...

My step mom says that she and my dad have had many conversations about this and, as well that H and I are very private/distant and don't talk about our lives with them and the last time they were at our house was in Jan '09 and that we only see them on special occasions. They don't come over because they think they are intruding. Although, she says she knows that we would always make them feel welcome.

I know I said before "I won't care anymore", but I can't help it. I am "stuck" again with negative thoughts of my husband and whether or not this is all worth it. I do feel that he acts childish about my family and he is very negative about them - they are starting to see this and I am embaressed about it all. I feel like my whole family is talking bad about him.

If I talk to H about this, he will be very upset and fly off the handle. I don't know if I have the strenght to deal with his outburst. My stepmom also asked me not to say anything, what should I do?

[Ageing Grace]

Jenn, what did you say to your parents?

It looks odd to me that they're *so* upset about the bike incident, but I guess this is because it symbolises much of what they find difficult about their relationship with you, now that you have this moody husband.

Anyway, my answer to what you "should" do about it is: absolutely nothing!

The reason I'm asking what you said is that I feel you're taking up too much of the responsibility for the personality clash between your husband and your parents. You honestly don't need to defend him to them - or vice versa. In fact, the more you do that, the more uncomfortable your position becomes - right?

The business with the bike was strange. It's not surprising your parents feel confused by it. In my view, the only way to respond to their concerns is to say, yes, he is a bit weird sometimes and I don't understand it either. Thanks for telling me, I'm so sorry this upset you.

They might have said they were miffed that you didn't tell them about the new bike - I would be, in their position. Frankly, it would have been a whole lot simpler - and more honest - to come out with it in front of all 3 of them, at the time.

I'm guessing you were fairly gobsmacked yourself & couldn't think what to say! But, in letting yourself be controlled by other people's ideas of loyalty, you're allowing them to get away with poor behaviour - and making things worse for yourself.

For future reference, there's no reason at all why you shouldn't quite naturally fill in conversational gaps like this. It's perfectly normal :)

I can't help noticing the similarities between your husband and Yoga's seem to increase the more you tell us! Are you sure they aren't brothers???!

Hope some of this is some help, at least ...
All the best,

AG

[Raymond]

Your husband seems to have issues Jenn. I suspect that he didn't have the best nurture as a child and possibly has a rejection complex by the sound of it. He is certainly holding back in relationship with your parents.

If what I am saying is true it might be worth explaining this to your parents and ask them not to take it personally as H has issues within himself. Is he like this with others?

Raymond

[Jenn]

Thanks Ag and Raymond,

I really didn't say anything to my step mom other than that H has idiosyncrasies that even I don't understand. I had to let her go because I was starting to fall apart emotionally.

H actually grew up with a loving mother and father, 2 siblings that were 12 and 14 yrs older so grew up more like an only child. His dad, who he was very close too, died when H was 25. I was not around, but aparently this changed him. he has gotten better over the years, but not sure if this has anything to do with his issues? I think it runs a bit deeper. The other thing is that his mom doesn't like any of her kid's in-laws. She talks openly about her dislike for them (even with her grandchildren). She is akward socially. I think this is a bit of a learned behaviour for H.

H can easily walk away from relationships, which is why he no longer has any friends.

[Ageing Grace]

I agree with you that it may be a learned behaviour - coupled with feelings of abandonment from the death of his father.

Although death isn't, strictly speaking, an abandonment, it feels that way and - sadly often - leads to people feeling they can never trust another relationship, because "they all go in the end". Unless the affected person chooses to work this one through, it can remain for life.

At the end of the day, Jenn, you are not your husband's therapist - even if you were, he hasn't sought therapy so there's little you could do about it!

I'm more worried about your emotional state. I'm alarmed that these issues - which amount to bad manners, nothing more - are causing you so much distress. Re-reading your introduction, I understand that you've always felt responsible for other people's well-being and for the family's relationships. This originates from your dad's grossly unfair treatment of you as a "substitute wife" after you moved back in with him. Also, being shunted around as a small child could have led to your putting a huge emphasis on family security. This would pretty much explain why any signs of family disunity make you very stressed.

What can I do to reassure you that this sort of thing is normal, and the family WON'T fall apart even if they don't much like each other?

I absolutely loathed my father (he was a lot like yours) and so did most other people, including my partners. But my family always felt solid, and perhaps that feeling of ... being able to take them for granted ... is what you're missing. I wish I knew how to help you feel, as I do, that despite everything (we're acutely aware of each other's many faults!), we're family :confused:

If they don't get on, it doesn't matter very much. You have no duty to make them get on, nor even to like each other. You do have a right to expect them to be civil, out of consideration to you - and a responsibility to realise everyone is imperfect, so let them off if they screw up ;)

In this light, I think it's a mistake to discuss your husband's psychological flaws with your family, at least not in detail. Yes: he clearly has "issues". In your place, I'd be sympathetic to people who don't like it - but NOT responsible for their feelings, nor for his. I certainly wouldn't apologise for him, or try to explain it. Same the other way round - when he feels upset by them.

There's one thing I have drummed into my mother since Dad died - it might help you too, I don't know: You don't have to believe someone's perfect in order to love them.

Regarding your husband's diminishing social life - which must be quite a burden on you - he does seem to be lacking in self-worth and, possibly, depressed. See if you can gently encourage him to feel more confident about himself. Do you remember to thank him when he does something for you, and to praise what he does well? Can you dredge up any good things other people have said about him, that you can drop into the conversation now and again?

Also, while you're doing this, it's important to remember to praise yourself in the conversation, too :) Create an overall positive environment ...

Wishing you well,
AG
x

[Raymond]

I think AG is right about encouraging the good in him. I think that is quite powerful.

What I meant about your parents is to get it accross to them that it's not particularly them, he just has a weakness or however you want to phrase it. I think you have said a little already it seems. Whatever his problems though it is no excuse for bad behaviour so that's not to be encouraged obviously.

Maybe something has come from the mother. Would you say she has a control thing over him or does she keep out of things?

Raymond

[Jenn]

Hi Ag and Raymond - once again, thank you for your insight!

I read Ag's response yesterday and had a much needed cry. I know that I am overreacting to the situation and I think you hit the nail on the head by saying that it could be related to family security. It's like I'm seeing the situation as the end to something (my family unit?).... I have decided that I am going to seek counselling for a little bit, so I can get some of these issues off my chest.

H is definitely lacking in self worth. He is a janitor with the school board and has been for almost 20 years, he thinks this is the lowest form of work one can do. He thinks that everyone sees him as a loser because of this. He went to school to be a millwright in the 80's and he really wanted to work in General Motors like his dad and brother, but, with the recession, was unable to get a job in his field. This has had a huge impact on him. However, he has been in a group leader position for a year now and this has helped is self esteem.

I don't see depression like I used to. He is a very energetic, hard working and a hilarious person - really! He has the tendency to be very moody very quickly, but has been better able to keep this in check over the years - I think with my influence. I believe he does suffer anxiety. We are always late going to my families because he has to go to the bathroom a couple of times before we leave.

I praise him all the time, I am encouraging and supportive. We leave notes for eachother, send e-mails and text messages all the time saying how much we love and appreciate eachother. I cook him wonderful meals and he always says thank you that was delicious. and any chance I can tell him nice things other people say about him, I do.

As far as H's mother goes, she doesn't interfere with us. She does play "woo is me" head games with him (and everyone else for that matter) - she puts indirect guilt trips on him. One thing is that if his mother asked what we were up to that evening or whatever, and we were going over to my sisters or parents or they were coming over to our house (which, of course, was rare), he would say we weren't doing anything or we might go out, like he is trying to spare her feelings - maybe she is controlling him in her way.

[Raymond]

You seem to have a lot going for you in the way that you relate Jenn. You sound like a really good wife. He does seem to have picked up a rejection complex from somewhere although he seemed to have reasonable nurture as a child. I think he is blessed to have an encouraging wife like you.

I think you need to continue to build up his esteem through encouraging the good. He has disappointments about his career but in the end it is who you are and not what you do that counts.

I am puzzled about you quite frankly Jenn, why you are so upset over things you cannot change. You seem to have a strong marriage so why do you fear that these problems will finish your marriage? That isn't true and is just a fear coming on you. I think you have insecurities Jenn which are understandable considering your background but there's no good reason to think your marriage is under threat from what you have written. That is a lie from somewhere. Don't believe it and you disarm it.

Good marriages don't mean that people are perfect it just means they work at it and encourage and love each other. One of the secrets of a good marriage is not compatability but how they deal with incompatability. I've had to do a lot of growing to cope with it and what used to be our differences have now become our joint strengths.

Raymond

[Jenn]

Thank you for your nice words Raymond, re: being a good wife, I think I do a pretty good job considering I have no prior experience.

I clearly worry waaaayyyy to much about what other people think of me and my life (namely my Husband). I have to work on why this is.

I worry that the family thinks that H is abusive toward me and this I can't handle. My step-mother made a comment that related to her "other life" as she calls it, referring to her ex who was bipolar and abusive and overall a nasty person. She was implying that this kind of like the life I have - this hurt.

She also dwelled on the fact that we are so private and maybe something is going on that they don't know about. The real reason we are so "private" as she calls it is because H doesn't want to be around them much. I can't really tell her this, so on we go....

These are some pretty big opinions on my life. I now feel like the black sheep in my family and (sometimes) I blame my husband for this. This is not being a good wife, I know.

[Raymond]

I think that is your problem Jenn that you worry too much about what others, particularly your family, think of you. It is a kind of fear and will always be a trap for you.

If you are doing you best, loving your husband, being friendly to your family, thats all you can do. If you have to keep defending your actions all the time it will be hard work. They will just have to take you at your word and you shouldn't have to prove or worry about everything that they think, otherwise they will be driving you instead of you being free to do what you think is right.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Thank you for your moving reply, Jenn :)

It's not often I'm happy to have made someone cry!! Wonderful to hear that you've come to terms with a few hangovers from your childhood, and I suspect that a little bit of counselling, as you say, will be enough for you to put them where they belong - in the past.

You painted a lovely picture of your home life. Hope I meet you two some day :D

Raymond and I seem to be singing off the same hymn sheet for a change: If you just stick to the positives when discussing family members with each other - and stop being scared of upsetting the apple-cart - you'll surely find that everybody rubs along okay.

Good luck with the counselling; be happy!

AG xx

[Jenn]

I have my 1st session on Monday! I really want to use it as an opportunity to deal with (not dwell on) my childhood issues. I took on alot of my Dad'd burdens growing up, always walking on egg shells not to upset him. I don't know how to communicate my feelings properly because I have always stiffled them to spare other peoples feelings or to avoid conflict. Funny though, I communicate really well as a Human Resource Manager!


Aren't you mean AG! being happy that you made someone cry and all - hehe - Lol...

Hugs to you all! XXXXX

Jen

[Raymond]

You do well communicating on here Jenn.

That job is helping you in relating I think.

Hope it goes well with the counseling.

Raymond