Just what IS love?

[arcos]

Yes I know... The impossible question... But why should it be impossible?

Love is many things to many people. I have a very deep love of my children. It is something that I have never felt before. Since the day they were born I am amazed at how much love I have for them in a very emotional and spiritual kind of way.

I don't think I have ever had that strength of love for a partner. Of course the 'love' is different, or is it?

Open to ideas, thoughts and suggestions.... Please.

[1aokgal]

You made me think to ask what is love?

As you said we all interpret love in a different way. The Greeks used 3 different words all of which translate in English as the word "love."
These would be Eros, Philia and Agape.

Eros, is love most of us desire to have or to capture again all through our lives. This is love based on instinct without reason. This love is intense, passionate and deeply sexual. This is when the pulse races and obsessive thoughts preoccupy the mind of the loved ones' face and all memories we share with them. Eros is what moves one to sing or write poetry about the lover.
This is a love that is most desired.

Philia, is the under-appreciated kind of love we have for friends who complement our lives with loyalty and closeness when we need interaction with others to validate our efforts. It is family love and cameraderie with people who like who we are and support our efforts.

Agape love..This is unconditional love and doing what is good for the other. This is service for others involving self-sacrifice. It is what a soldier can have for his buddies that he would give his life for the good of others.

Why do marriages fail? I think marriages fail most often for defects in character and lack of virtue. When you truly love you desire the good of the other person more than oneself. Love is unselfish and giving. Love is the ultimate friendship and excellence of character that loves and supports the aspirations of the other. It is humility when praise is to be given, to let the other person feel approval and acceptance. It is unconditional and the greater the friendship, the more solid and longlasting is the union. We affirm "Until death do us part" which means we are two people united for our lifetimes.

The deepest sorrow is to love another without hope it can be reciprocated. In essense to throw love to the winds.

[Raymond]

I read something the other day which highlighted for me that it is not always the feeling which counts. When I look into the mirror I do not gush over myself but simply get on with washing and looking after myself and taking care of everything pertaining to me. It struck me that this is often how it is in marriage. We love the other because we do and watch out for them day in day out. Yes feelings will come but basically we love because we want to.

Raymond

[1aokgal]

Raymond..

Ultimately, love is a CHOICE. When passion is cool and time has passed it is a choice to continue to love someone (more than self.) As one loves God.....it is a choice.
Agreed?

That is getting back to that excellence of character. One posses the traits to be honest, loyal,
trustworthy and LOVING. A choice.

(We gush over you here on the forum, Raymond.)

[Raymond]

You are absolutely right 1aokgal. Love is a choice. That is the bit that takes you through actually. Because I made vows, because I honour God I don't have any choice but to love my wife. I had the freedom to choose her and marry her. Nobody forced me. Now my bit is to love her forever. I may fail sometimes but I never stop. Don't get me wrong the feelings are there as well but actually the marriage covenant itself is the strength of it. Yes it is a choice or in other words an act of ones will. Doesn't mean we ever stop learning how to love.

Raymond

[clockwork orange]

Well put, both of you! Or to put it another way, love is something you DO, an action. In the best sense it is a verb, not a noun.

Karen

[Raymond]

Well put you as well CO.

Raymond

[arcos]

Can I play devils advocate here for a minute...

Raymond... If love is choice then you say you don't have a choice? Nobody made you choose your wife or to marry her but you ARE being forced to love her? I am not disrespecting your views Raymond simply asking a question.

1aokgal... When the passion is cool then why stay? Yes it is a choice but there has to be something to 'stay for'? Is it not better to move on, for both parties, and find that passion again? Is it the passion what everyone really craves? With so many people here having been hurt through infidelity I would suggest that there is some truth in this?

CO... I do agree that love is something that we DO. We have to do IT every minute of every day.

I am not disagreeing with anything that you guys have said in your posts, not for one minute, I am trying to get a better understanding of what 'love' is. You know from my posts elsewhere that I truly believe in the institution of marriage and families. If I could I would still be in that institution... For better and for worse, isn't that one of the vows?

I have not been a 'saint' in the past, in past relationships and have behaved badly in some of them. But I am learning that there is far more to a relationship than JUST love, JUST passion.

Once the first throws of passion have subsided it is then that the choices are made.

Love is..... Hard Work!

It also takes TWO. Two people of the same mind set, with the same values, with the same amount of strength the carry on and build on and work at the relationship, the marriage. That takes trust, honesty, loyalty and, above all, respect from both. If one or two of these are not there on either side then the marriage, the relationship is doomed to failure.

That's my take on it anyway, so far. I really want to try and find out if I cam capable of 'love', to be able to 'love' another partner. Not through the hurt that I have been through now, I now realise that there was little 'love' in that relationship, that marriage. Can I 'love' another, not now, but at some time in the future? To be able to do that I need to understand what 'love' really is.

[Raymond]

I am not being forced to love her Arcos but I make that choice to love her. I am saying that because I married her I am committed to loving her. I don't see any choice in the sense that it is overwhelmingly the right thing and the desirable thing to do in my view. I am honoured that I got chosen. I never ever want her to regret that decision forever.

The essence of love is wanting the best for the other person. This is worked out in many ways within relationship. Your love for your children is a God given thing that a father should have although this can be muted through bad relationship. It's takes two to have a relationship so if ones love is not received then the other person is not sharing in the life from it that they could.

If one cannot love or receive love then they are alone.

Raymond

[1aokgal]

Then there are the different types of love that one can have in a marriage.

If one is disabled and there is no "passion/sex" should the able bodied person pack their bags and search for a hot one? When two are together for many years are there are other degrees of love besides Eros. There is companionship and friendship. There also comes a time when the search is over.

We know of some celebrities who were rich, beautiful and still went through eight husbands and did not get it right. Should they shoot for lucky #9 or has age, circumstances and common sense dictated maybe they should stay where they are? Does one still love though there is no passion? I say "yes" there can still be love in the absence of passion...people with physical problems still love, but in a different dimension.

There are marriages here on the forum that will survive until "death do you part" because physically, financially the parties will live out the remainder of their years together. Perhaps companionably, perhaps not. Passion is past but there are still loyalties and caring to keep the two together.

Should assets be halved so each can go live in poverty and hope there is one more round out there? No, they will make peace and support each other through the rest of life. Ah, for passion...that may be past because one has decided they no longer desire it.
That happens all the time. Then the other partner must live as best they can to find some peace with that.

We all have to be realistic in our expectatios that past youth and past middle age some will have a sexual fulfillment and some will live out their lives alone. Relationships do take work but mostly unselfishness and defintely one has to have virtue to live in a world of temptation. It is not hard to find sex but it is hard to find real love and passion. The toughest part is to nurture a love relationship when we have it.

Then there is LUCK. Some of us find virtuous partners who will make moral choices. We read here about many with unfaithful immature partners, selfish and uncaring who risk everything to go outside of the marriage. Sometimes alcohol is the problem and sometimes these people always had self gratication as a central focus. That is a character defect or poor mrntal health. These individuals are morally bankrupt with no compass to reality. Marriage is not compatible with a spouse with no moral fiber. Then it is better to divorce.

What is love? Patient, caring, faithful, honest, giving, long-suffering, tenacious, undestanding and a hundred more things and with every breath....you try one more time.
What is love worth? It is worth everything one possesses to have a partner and to live a
good life.

[arcos]

I don't see any choice in the sense that it is overwhelmingly the right thing and the desirable thing to do in my view. I am honoured that I got chosen. I never ever want her to regret that decision forever.

Quite right Raymond!

I was not attacking your previous post just asking a question.

Doing the "right thing" is a state of mind, a set of values that makes it the "right thing". Having those values and the personal traits to carry them out is what makes a person strong.

You are obviously a very strong person Raymond.

[arcos]

What is love worth? It is worth everything one possesses to have a partner and to live a good life.

There are clearly many levels of 'love', many interpretations of what love is to that person. What may be love to me may be different to another.

I don't believe however that the foundations are that different though. The 'core' morals have to be there to start with to build that relationship. Interpreting 'love' within that relationship will depend on the partners.

A great question 1aokgal "What is love worth?"... Is it worth everything? I am not so sure. Of course, personally, I would like to think that I could give everything to have a partner and live the good life. On a practical level however, is it ever possible to commit to that? For example, infidelity of ones partner? Should one then keep giving everything to ones partner?

[1aokgal]

Sometimes I think love is like the Zen philosophy to imagine..sounds silly....love is like ONE HAND CLAPPING.

My situation may be unique but I feel as if one hand is clapping.. All effort, all belief, all morally correct. Then one hopes the reflection in the pond is the lover who reflects the same values. I hope for myself to stay free of anger (which wounds me), and to be all forgiving. One makes the motion but there is no sound. Is it less honorable.... that it is just one hand clapping?

I know my heart loves but I am not sure who, when or why I love. Maybe I have to love....it is part of my innate humanity that I must love. Maybe life is a puzzle and we never understand it.

What is the sound of one person loving?

[arcos]

Interesting thoughts.

I understand where you are coming from with the one hand clapping. I favour Yin and Yang as being complementary opposites. When one claps it is never a perfect reflection but one hand compliments the other by making a greater whole.

You sum up my feeling... Maybe I have to love... To give love. One can love one's self but that is not giving love.

The sound of one person loving is a difficult one...

Is it silence?

or

Is it a scream?

[1aokgal]

One person loving can be silence ..can be screams and crying.

Crying for what one hoped. One person can realize the loss. Loss is forever.

It never comes again. Breathlessness.

It never comes again. Waiting in the rain with a full heart
for someone to arrive and searching faces in a crowd for that face when a plane arrives. Such joy.
All that is gone.

Watching others. Seeing others experience joy. Shutting down inside so you don't hate them for their joy. That is love. Alone.
**************************
Only a lot of work and thinking how to make the best of the rest of our lives is the healing touch.

[Raymond]

If that is how you feel 1aokgal it is very sad. One should not have to feel that way regardless of circumstances. Do you not know Jesus? The one who when you ask him in has promised to never leave or forsake you.

Raymond

[arcos]

If that is how you feel 1aokgal it is very sad. One should not have to feel that way regardless of circumstances. Do you not know Jesus? The one who when you ask him in has promised to never leave or forsake you.

I feel for 1aokgal and hope that life can deal a better hand in the future as I hope it will deal all of us here a better hand.

Raymond, you are one of the fortunate ones. You have found faith in the Lord and his strength guides you.

Some of us have not found that faith, we have not been blessed with the openness of heart and mind to accept the Lord into our lives.

Some of us look at other religions for guidance, myself included. Not because I believe in one or the other but because of experiences I have had.

Faith is so powerful for people who have been able to accept and acknowledge it.

I hope that I can bring 'faith' into my life, or rather be able to open my heart and mind to allow me to follow or be guided down a path of enlightenment.

As a 'spiritual agnostic' I like to believe that there is a higher being but have yet to be 'convinced' of this. My experience this year in India at the Jain temple was powerful. I could NEVER follow Jainism, it is far too 'extreme' for 'normal day to day living. However, I do believe that it is possible to take workable elements from this and add them into ones daily life.

[Raymond]

I was brought up on the hard side of the tracks Arcos as you know. I am not special as the Lord is no respector of persons in the sense that he has no favourites.

Anyone can come to God when they get to the place of placing their faith in christ, the one who said that he was the way the truth and the life. I believe that is God's way for mankind. Nothing that we would have thought up. Everything is in a person, not a religion. When you discover that and act on it God comes in and you start on a different road.

I don't doubt your supernatural experiences but would say that not every supernatural experience is of God. There are other powers around that I would avoid personally.

Raymond

[arcos]

I don't doubt your supernatural experiences but would say that not every supernatural experience is of God. There are other powers around that I would avoid personally.

Oh Raymond

I feared that you may answer with the above.

Nothing personal, you have your right to believe in your own God as others have the right to believe in their own God. It is a shame that religion does not allow open heart and mind of other religions, other faiths.

It is the intolerance of one religion of another that causes so many problems in the world and actually alienates people from religion.

I would not say that my experience was of God, of ANY God. It was more a feeling of immense power, power of prayer. I, rightly or wrongly, believe that the centuries of deep, devout prayer was, in some way, held within the temple and it was that which i felt, yes actually physically felt. The tens of thousands of people who have prayed in the temple gave the power of my feelings, of my emotions, not God.

[Raymond]

Everyone has freewill to believe what they want to Arcos. I just have my convictions that's all. I don't know what you mean by open hearts and minds to other religions. One has to live up to the light they have and my conviction is that Jesus is the light of the world. If I believe that why would I want to be a hindu or a moslem for instance?

Raymond

[1aokgal]

Raymond...

You are a nice man but frankly the piety wears.
Good GRIEF Charley Brown, of course, I know Jesus. Raised as Catholic ..parochial schools all the way and later as an adult, became Baptist. Sometimes you Christian types just can't help proseltyzing? Even the best most believing folks have problems. At the risk of offending others who have faith though they don't wave it as a banner. You really need to stop invading others belief systems.

I didn't marry Jesus. Frankly, any woman who did would have a problem there too. He travelled all the time..preferred his friends company and probably had little interest in sex because he was "too tired." In short he was a typical "workaholic" and that is one who lacks balance and puts work as a way to confirm masculint traits. His wife probably had a very hard time of it and came last on the "to do" list. Sounds like the man I married...only I am not on the list at all.

Arcos, I understand what you meant when you say you felt the reverence of being ina place where devout believers raise up their hearts to God (as we know him.) That is from the 12 steps philosophy, isn't it? We don't think you mean to wear an orange sheet and shave head and hang out in bus stations collecting money. If you did not have a faith system you might have driven across town and the spouse would have disappeared. You live a life as a good man, good father and that takes faith whether it is named or not. Open heart and mind really dosen't refer to many "believers" who hound others with their religion or belief and that has been true for centuries.

I think it really dosen't matter what one believes so long as a good life is lived and there is acceptance of a Greater Power. People kill each other over these differences in religion.

Is a Muslim less good because he dosen't accept Jesus as savior? I think not.

Now one can feel miserable and belief is not going to alter the mind/heart of another. Since we can't control another..our mate, spouse or family members who are dysfunctional, obstinate and make life miserable... all the prayer fests in the world don't alter those facts. I do think strong will and good character which are traits of a person who has a belief system does help. I am sustained not to become an alcoholic, take drugs or go wacko over things in life because I do have a belief system that doesn't allow such behavior. I also have self love that tells me I am worth more than how someone might treat me. Therefore I can do better for my life in other ways.

Sometimes I wonder why people do the silly things they do in the name of religion. Tell me that.
PS. I do thank you both for the sympathy to my having sad feelings at times. That is very kind.

[arcos]

WHOO!! EASY!!!

I didnt mean to start a discussion on religion and I certainly don't want to start knocking one or other religion on the grounds of 'belief', what ever that 'belief' is.

As Raymond says everyone has free will to choose.

What my 'complaint' was about was the statement about my experience being "supernatural" and the suggestion that what I felt was in some way wrong.

Being of open mind and heart suggests that, although your conviction maybe different, you can accept that there are other things, other beliefs in the world. Having the conviction that "Jesus is the light of the world" is fantastic and I don't suggest for one minute that you be Hindu or Muslim or anything else. But to belittle Hinduism or Muslims because of ones own beliefs is to be narrow minded and bigoted.

I really don't mean to offend anyone here and my 'beliefs' are of course my own but I would not want to try and force my 'beliefs' on others or put down anothers 'beliefs' or experiences.

1aokgal, your comments about wearing an orange sheet, shaving ones head and hanging out in bus stations are really funny!! I must admit I haven't seen too many orange robed, shaven headed monks hanging around bus stations in India! But I understand what you are saying. One doesn't have to go to extremes!

Living a good moral life, with good character is far more important than religion, in my book anyway. I am not sure about "acceptance of a Greater Power". What "Greater Power"?

No one 'should' be a lesser person because they do not believe in Jesus, Allah or any other 'God'. There are a lot of terrible things on the internet that suggest that unless you believe in a Christian 'God' then every other 'God' is a false 'God'. That IS narrow minded and bigoted! No wonder there are wars and killings in the name of religion. That cannot be right?

Belief is one thing, extremism is something completely different.

Anyone who has a 'belief' is, I consider. to be, enlightened, no matter what that belief is, no matter what 'God' that belief is in. That is having open mind and open heart.

[Raymond]

1aokgal I am sorry if I offended you. You sounded so lost but I misread it. Sorry.

Arcos you are wise not to want to start an argument on religion. I do not want that either.

I certainly do not think I have more merit that others. Who am I but an orphan who turned into a mess through the lack of nurture in his childhood, but by the grace of God I am what I am.

All people have equal worth in God's sight (if you believe in him) whatever they believe.

Regarding your supernatural experience. I did not mean to judge yours. What I should have said is that every supernatural experience is not necessarily good. I cannot judge yours.

Raymond

[1aokgal]

No, Arcos, You began no war but discussion of belief.

There are as many belief systms as there are flowers in the field. Some are so crazy and
dangerous as the cult phenomena where people think they are powerless to live among problems and turn to religion as the total answer to all woes. Who said,"Religion is the opiate of the masses?" Why karl Marx.

So I mentioned the orange sheet wearers, who collect millions in hand-outs in coins on street corners and airports. They turn over all belongings and become the Hare Krishna's and wield great political power. They don't live in India..because we have them all in the states in OUR airport lobbys. We also had Reverend Moon (Unification Church) with his jet and luxery life.... founder, publisher of the Washington Times Newspaper who mixed with the famous and ultra rich... He claimed he is the 2nd coming or the Messiah. Then there is Ron Hubbards' Scientology church that elicits celebities loyalty and their endorsements and multi-dollars for power in the belief system game.

Remember the prophecy about the Anti-Christ and how one would come from the East and push the world into a catastrophe of war that threatens mankind?

There are so many players on the stage of religion and all vie for the dollar/donations of the average man who seeks answers to why he got laid-off and his wife dosen't love him. Religion is after all a trillion dollar enterprise and if the little man kept his dollars at home he could keep his house instead of facing foreclosure.

Sometimes religion might be a simplistic escape from the responsibility to fix ones' own mess. I, Perhaps, am a pragmatist because I think we have to have the burden to live the best we can and take the blame if it is less than perfect. The practical consequence of making screwups means things don't turn out as we desired. I won't pray away my troubles I will work through them as best I can.

Sometimes I will post here and perhaps I will confront a spouse whose performance is so lacking. But if someone else chooses to pray because they can't get through a day without licquor or a cigarette that is a good thing.

[arcos]

1aokgal I am sorry if I offended you. You sounded so lost but I misread it. Sorry.

Arcos you are wise not to want to start an argument on religion. I do not want that either.

I certainly do not think I have more merit that others. Who am I but an orphan who turned into a mess through the lack of nurture in his childhood, but by the grace of God I am what I am.

All people have equal worth in God's sight (if you believe in him) whatever they believe.

Regarding your supernatural experience. I did not mean to judge yours. What I should have said is that every supernatural experience is not necessarily good. I cannot judge yours.

Raymond

Hi Raymond

There is enough 'argument' over religion in the world without starting our own micro-war!

I have a couple of questions regarding your comments if I may?

Does God only give me equal worth IF I believe in him? If I don't believe in him does he give me less worth than a believer?

My 'supernatural' experience... I still have a little problem with the word 'supernatural'. Would my experience have been supernatural if it had happened in a church of the Lord rather than a Jain temple?

Or am I reading a little too much into these two questions? I don't know?

[1aokgal]

Raymond...

You are priceless and vital to many on the forum. You are a Godly man..one who struggles and admits his foibles. A good discussion even with passion is not a bad thing here.

Yes, you picqued me a little. :-) You are not a bad guy because you step around so naiively with your choirboy belief. We like you all the same.

I had a ladypal who is a long time email friend... pull that same thing on me. She invaded my space. The fact is, she married an old guy 92 for his money as she many years younger. Of course, she takes good care of him and he put all in her name already so she is not likely to cause him harm. I was offended that she asked me that same thing because I don't consider a biz deal marriage vow as quite moral. Therefore, I felt she had no moral high ground to question my belief system.

I stopped communicating with her some months and that was silly. She was blinded by her exalted position as a church attending wife of this man. I don't go to church often at all. Not because I don't believe, but because I can use the time to paint a picture or work on my business and that is a talent I was given. We see things differently.

Have a good weekend. How sweet of you to post your follow-up. A HUG from me.

[1aokgal]

Arcos..

The Greater Power concept is "one believes that there is a power greater than themselves." In a sense, a 12 step turns over the will and lets the Power take over. It is a somewhat questionable concept in my mind...as I think we have the ultimate power to make behavioral changes. Now we can't change the Universe..bend spoons with our minds..or such..but someone who drinks should have the power to say.."Whoa, that is enough!"

I count calories. I am NOT powerless over food. A 12 step program as OA modelled after AA would say we are powerless over food (the intoxicating drug appeal of it) and only our Higher Power can stop the desire. If my hips spread it is my fault. I won't say I am powerless to change that.

These programs have millions of devotees who enlist this philosphy who do make positive changes. AG should join this discussion.

Maybe psychologically it helps not to take responsibility and to think you are a little pebble in the universe and things are done because you believe? What do you think?
Have a good weekend All!

[Raymond]

A question to Raymond

I have a couple of questions regarding your comments if I may?

Does God only give me equal worth IF I believe in him? If I don't believe in him does he give me less worth than a believer?

My 'supernatural' experience... I still have a little problem with the word 'supernatural'. Would my experience have been supernatural if it had happened in a church of the Lord rather than a Jain temple?

Or am I reading a little too much into these two questions? I don't know?

I believe God has given us all equal worth as human beings Arcos. Although a dollar bill may be crumpled and dirty it is still worth a dollar (no reference to you simply an analogy). The difference in coming to christ and believing in him is that you are able to appopriate and experience the love of God personally.

With regard to question two it would depend on whether your experience was supernatural or not. You can have the physical supernatural (bending a spoon or healing a cripple) which would be pretty obvious or you can have an experience in your spirit which can be supernatural to you but not to others perhaps. This can happen anywhere, in a church, in a Jain temple or in your bedroom perhaps. As a christian I have to discern where it's coming from for my own safety.

Raymond

[arcos]

Hi Raymond

Thank you for clearing up my questions.

My reading, or misreading is always a concern of mine when on forums or even via email. It is difficult to read emotion or meaning though just words.

I believe that most 'supernatural' experiences come from within, not from external 'forces' good or evil.

A state of mind, a receiver of ethereal 'messages', Godly powers, however one wants to describe 'supernatural' I believe one has to be open minded and receptive to 'it', whatever 'it' is!

'Supernatural' is not a word that I would use to explain my experience. More 'spiritual' than 'supernatural'. In my interpretation at least.

[Raymond]

I have to disagree here. The bible and experience has taught me different. Personally I would never leave myself open to everything going. One verse comes to mind. Beloved don't believe every spirit but try the spirits whether they are of God. We are body, soul (mind, emotions and will) and we have a spirit. We can only relate to God through our spirits but not every spiritual experience is of God is my opinion.

I used to live in a hostel for a while and one night I felt a terrible evil presence. I had to get out of bed and pray until it went off. I found out there there was an Ethiopian chap upstairs who was experiencing something just at that time. He said they were pulling the bed clothes off him. When I asked him about this he said it was quite common in his country. We managed to sort the problem and the experience never returned, but it underlined something for me. They know all about this in Africa and some eastern countries. I would never open myself to that stuff.

On another note we both watched Fireproof last night. I ended up crying. Thanks for reminding me about it.

Raymond

[arcos]

Hi Raymond

Not quite sure what you are disagreeing with on this one.

I too have had 'supernatural' experiences, inexplicable experiences. Some good some not so good. Your experience with the Ethiopian guy is interesting although I am not sure that it is common in his country or common in any African or Eastern country. Of course there is a lot of wizardry in Africa but this has been proven as primarily drug induced hysteria rather than evil spirits. BUT I do believe it is possible, dont get me wrong.

SOme of my 'supernatural' experiences have involved spirits. One bad spirit, or rather mischievous spirit. All other encounters have been neutral or good.

I am really glad you watched Fireproof! I am planning to let some friends watch it this week. They really need something like that to try and work things out. I have spoken to them about it and they have agreed to watch with open minds. I just hope it does them some good.

[Raymond]

On reflection I don't really disagree with you only in extent. I believe there is a lot more that comes from without without us realising it. You have to believe that if you believe the bible. The bible is very clear on good and evil and the sources of it although the main emphasis is on what we do with it.

How did you get involved in a bad spirit. Was it oija boards or something?

I think you are doing a good job showing the film Fireproof. I know you don't like the religious part but for me it is crucial.

Raymond

[jellybean28]

After reading everyone's posts, I would like to share my take on love.

Sometimes the word love is overused - I love the colour green. I love chocolate, I love her eyes, I love his smile
In relationships love can be confussed with lust or passion
As stated there are different kinds of love
For me love is me love is you we are all love.
We are all capable of giving and receiving love unconditionally
Love has no religion or race
Love is doing something for no reason smile at an old person, when you next stand in line buying a coffe pay for the persons coffee behind you use your imagniation. Do this with out expectation is this love? you tell me.
At the end of the day love is what we want to believe it to be
Anyway thanks for a thought provoking thread
Love and respect to you all

[Raymond]

I agree with what you say apart from the line that we are love.

Raymond

[1aokgal]

Love is what makes you think of the others' welfare ..before your own. It is the disregard you have for changes that have taken place in the other as the hair being grey at the temples. So what is there are a few more lines and someone changes.

Love is to remember the first moment when your heart spoke to you and told you he/she was the one. It was the moment you looked at them and knew you could never be apart from that person without feeling regret for the distance. Love is patient, and doesn't need a explanation on things you may both feel the same about. It is shared values about important issues.

Love is kind when the other person has concern or worry and you don't add more. Love is a feeling of gladness when you think about them. That is how I know I still love because it is the same for me. Only wiser, sadder ...but hopeful still.

Love is when you feel sad when you hear that things are not going good for another. You wish with all your might they find happiness.

I believe that is love.

[Raymond]

You are absolutely right in those things 1okgal.

I believe it is also a battle. Say your wife gets a few wrinkles. Love is to understand that you love her the person and to remember that you are getting older too and will have a few wrinkles too. In other words it is more than skin deep.

Raymond

[1aokgal]

Do men and women define LOVE the same or do we each have a different concept?

[Manticore]

For me, love is looking at her at knowing I'd do anything to hold her, keep her safe, make her happy, do things with her, and most of all, be with her for the rest of my life.

[Raymond]

I don't think the concept is much different between a woman and a man although a woman would express it in a different way from a man. But people of the same sex would most likeley express it differently as well according to their personalities. We don't all see things the same and express things differently from each other.

Raymond

[jellybean28]

Great answer Raymond

I recently went to a workshop where we worked in pairs and had to answer this question while looking into the other persons eyes, was an interesting exercise. No right or wrong answers.

For me it was a very emotional experience and I found myself quoting the reading from my marriage 29 years ago. It was corinthians 13 I think. I have no idea why I reacted to the exercise the way I did, but I did find it a healing experience.

[Raymond]

Your scripture memory is bang on it is chapter 13 in the 1st book of Corinthians. I found I couldn't do it without christ.

Raymond