Do i hold on or let go

[Johnee S]

Names Johnee, married for almost 14 years (this august), 3 wonderful kids daughter 15, sons 8 and 5. My Wife has decided she wants to separate and has moved out to think things over, she is seeing someone online she met in a fantasy video game secondlife where you can do and be anything. Its all an illusion with no substance other then emotional connections. She went to Van with her GF last month to hook up with this guy in Seattle, he was denied access to Canada due to his criminal record (assaulted 2 police men at age 21). He’s a 43 year old divorced twice over for cheating with a 14 yr old son he gets on weekends. He’s a booze hound and he seems like a nice guy with my Wife but I spoke with him a few occasions first to let him know she was in fact married with 3 kids and that she is 36 not a 28 yr old single DJ.

Yet he still peruses her tells me he loves her even though they only know each other from a video game, 3000+ minutes of talk time 9cells home phone), and IM chatting, how the hell is that love? She admitted she has strong feelings for him and that he’s trying to get a pardon so he can come here to see her and be with her. She continued seeing him behind my back when I worked (nights) and slept (days) or while she was/is at work, after I dropped the bomb about knowing and confronting her after informing him of what the real deal is Our kids are devastated especially our daughter whos not taking this separation well. I’ve been asking to try counseling she thinks it will do nothing, I said if not to reconcile then at least to end things on good terms for the sake of our kids.

Communication is difficult it seems I do 90% of the talking while she is just minimal response or dead silence. I have to ask her to look me in the eyes when we talk which suggests no respect for me. She feels ashamed and sad for her actions, so I asked her to leave to get herself figured out on what she wants to do since staying makes it ore difficult. I love my Wife dearly and told her I would do anything to make this relationship work again. For the last 2 years she’s felt unhappy but she never told me nor did she really put effort into making this work.

I am going nucking futs! I knew I loved her before but now its like all I can do is think about how much I am in love with her and I can’t see my life with out her in it. I am focusing on my work and kids, working on self improvement for the sake of sanity but deep down all I think about is my Wife and how to get her back in my world at my side.

She has said she wants to feel what she used to with me but I don’t know if that’s truth or just trying to let me off easy. Next she says she thinks it will not work and if we were to reconcile it would be for the kid’s sake. I told her that’s not going to work and it could make it worse. She told me she hates not being at home with the kids; last night she asked our daughter who should stay and who should go. My daughter being the smart one onto her little game stated neither of you leave both of you stay and make this work.

Love is a choice and commitment you make to your partner, despite how tough things may appear (short term pain, little pleasures) you have to work together to get to the long term pleasures, I belief in our marriage and what it used to stand for, I know deep down there is love still otherwise she’d have already said there is no way it will ever happen or just say sorry I moved on, its over; you need to move on. Part of me wants to toss in the towel and give up knowing its going to be very hard on all of us, the main part of me says No dude fight for your love show her what she means to you and how important she is. I am reading a lot of replies on various sites saying let her go and work on me even though it’s the hardest thing to do.

[jahdog]

Let go. Sounds like she is gone. They make up thier mind and make thier decision way before they let us know. Then its too late. Bad deal. Karma comes around and goes around.Let go and begin healing.

[j92cool]

Jahdog is correct. She is already gone. The spouse is generally the last person to know. The internet has a lot to answer for. She has not made a good choice but it is her choice and she will eventually suffer the consequences. I gave my H a second chance and all he did was slowly and carefully put things into place for his exit. When I had him packed up to leave it did not suit him. It worked out better for him to make out like we were working on our marraige while he was setting himslef up properly. Are the kids going to stay with you if her criminal bf comes over?. Sounds like the person you married is no longer there. You probably feel like you have been living with a stranger for sometime.

Look out for yourself and kids. She won't look you in the eyes because she cannot hide her shame and is filled with guilt not because she doesn't respect you. Bloody internet. They can lie their heads off and noone would know.

(read some of my thread)

[Johnee S]

Thanks for the replies, I guess there's nothing I can do but accept and move on. yet something is telling me not yet. I just want to rip my heart out so the pain goes away. I guess when we seperated 2.5 years ago, I shouldn't have bothered trying to get together. its been a lie since then I guess.

[j92cool]

Yes I know the pain is unbearable but it will get better. Take it one day at a time or as someone here told me minute by minute if that is the best you can manage at this time. Make sure you are sleeping if you aren't go see a doctor and get something to help. You need to sleep and eat to have the strength to manage day to day stuff. Don't make any drastic decisions as your thoughts will be clouded. Don't supress your emotions cry and rant if you wish too much better than holding it all in. I think you should seek counselling for yourself as you will need someone to talk things through to. I know everyone will say it will get better and you probably dont feel like it will now but it will. As to giving your W a second chance at least you can say you gave your marriage everything you had but it just was not going to work.

Keep posting here it really does help. I am 6 weeks into my drama and am feeling much stronger and really think that after everything is done and dusted I will be much happier than I have been for years.

Look after yourself.

[Raymond]

I think it was a mistake to seperate although it's too late now. This game thing sounds a bit dangerous to me and can get people into deception. I would have worked on that and dealt with it for her own good. You say she has been gone for two and a half years. Do you still speak to her? How is she getting on with this fellow? Does she live with him? Sounds a very shady character to me and theres almost something sinister about it. I wonder what else is going on with him to have that affect upon her. Something has gone dreadfully wrong and this game thing has played a part I feel.

When you say that something is telling you not to move on what do you think that is?

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Thanks for the encouragement...

As for the questions:

She said she's been unhappy since she and I got back together 2 years ago we seperated 2.5 years ago (1st time).
She went to vancity to hook up with the guy from Seattle who could not come accross the border due to his record so they never even met face to face. They talk on the phone and internet...

The PC I made for her its still here as are many of her personal belongings, technically she is moved out temporily, and I know she wants to be here and me out... not goign to happen. I'm taking control and holding her accountable to her actions and choices she's made since crossing the line from plutonic to emotional affair with this guy.

When she has given me her official we're seperating permanently then I will tell her to get her things and move out. The boys do not know how serious this is our daughter knows. She did say if she decided to reconsile it would be for the kids sake personally I think its because we have everything here and settled and she is just scared and insecure about being on her own. She should have thought about all of this before crossing the line with this other guy.

She dug her own hole and now she can live in it. Despite my feelings towards her I still feel compelled to hold her accountable to her actions and feelings. I want her and i to be happy together but she has to make that happen not me. Each second, each minute, each hour, each day since confronting both of them on this; despite my forgiving her and still loving her even more so; she is as mentioned above by jahdog she is already gone...

I just want to scream and go on a rampage to get this pain out but alas we all know how destructive that would be... I still plan on doing family counselling with or with out her and I am planning on temporary custody next week in the event she tries taking our kids away from their stability and home. If she truly wants to be with her online BF from Seattle she can go on her own with out the kids. The kids are all I have now and I will not allow this to destroy their lives.

I may sound angry and in some regards i am angry not at her, but to myself for not seeing all the signs and for allowing her to deceive me so easily they got met online in Novemeber last year and crossed the line in January this year... she may have destroyed my heart but she will NOT destroy our kids.

[Johnee S]

I think it was a mistake to seperate although it's too late now. This game thing sounds a bit dangerous to me and can get people into deception. I would have worked on that and dealt with it for her own good. You say she has been gone for two and a half years. Do you still speak to her? How is she getting on with this fellow? Does she live with him? Sounds a very shady character to me and theres almost something sinister about it. I wonder what else is going on with him to have that affect upon her. Something has gone dreadfully wrong and this game thing has played a part I feel.

When you say that something is telling you not to move on what do you think that is?

Raymond

She will have to either wait for this guys pardon hearing if he's even fighting for it, I am pretty certain he will be denied so he cannot come here and she doesn't even have a passport to go see him...

He lives in Seattle, WA we live in Alberta, Canada

We do speak when she pops over to see the kids (when I'm sleeping or at work) or change her outfit (for work) and if on the phone its regarding small matters of the household not our relationship, she avoids me... I talked with her yesterday hence why I know she would only reconsile for the kids and not our marriage.

She cries when she says her love for me is gone; I told her don't cry since she's already made up her mind and to just tell me straight up she wants to move on, which she has still not stated officially... I am still waiting to hear "Johnee, I am over our marriage, you need to get over it and move on" speech. Then and only then can I truly accept and move on.

[Johnee S]

As for what I think about something telling me to hold on, is the following:

-Her not coming out and saying let me go and move on with your life
-She cares deeply about our children as I do
-She hates not being home
-My love for her is enough to continue our marriage, sadly hers is not
-I have faith and believe Love conquers all else, even the most difficult of things

In order to come home I have only 4 things she would need to do

-Uninstall the game
-Break all contact from this man permanently
-Focus on our marriage and putting things back together
-To be honest and truthful with me about her feelings, needs, wants going forward

If she cannot do any the above she may as well start looking for her own place to live, she cannot stay at our mutual friends longer then a few weeks (til about month end or 1st week of June). What I am really pissed off about recently is our mutual friend gave her a cell phone so she can talk as often with the other guy as she wants to, her current cell is 500 which she has not bothered paying due to both her and my limited income.

I am a low income Dad trying to get back into the IT sector but the IT work is sparse for technical support guys like myself. I work in security presently hence night shift, I have a couple DJ gigs in June and July and with that I just make ends meet on my income alone. She says she will offer some $$$ to help out and I told her she cannot she needs to think about where she's going to live ad how shes going to live.

On our first seperation I moved out, this time I'm doing things differently, she wants out of the marriage so she has to be the one to move out. Our youngest starts full day kindergarden in August, middle grade 4 in August, our daughter grade 11 in September. She is welcome to stop by and hang out with the kids anytime but she cannot live here. I have been the level headed one through all of this, even some of my Wife's friends have only recently come to see my true character and have stated only recently they have coe to understand my true character/strength, they have also admitted they could not have handled the whole situation between my Wife and her online BF as patiently as I have. I gave it my all and it wasn't enough. because she never gave it her all with me.

I know she's diverting her heart break to rebounding with her online BF. I know she will fall hard and it will hurt her big time. She will eventually realize she's giving up her life of 16 years together for some stranger that has a mental and emotional manipulative hold on her like a drug; once she sees that nothing will become more permanent other then what they have online... reality is one *itch of a boomerang. I don't see getting back together at that point, as it will be a long time before this takes place.

I want to be with her but the more I analyze and think things over the more I'm inclined to let it go, but my heart keeps me hanging on, I made a vow under God witnessed by all our friends and family in August of 1995. I am compelled to hang on until I am handed over divorce papers to sign, thats my stubborn side.

[j92cool]

Good on you. You have thought things through and have a plan of action in mind. Yes if she wants out there is absolutely no reason you should make it easy for her. It will never cease to amaze me that they (spouses) can state they love their kids but then can move away from seeing them. Like many others here I would always put my realtionship with my children above anything else and can not understand how anyone could put a person they really hardly know above that relationship. I didn't see the signs with my H either because I am a creature of habit and loved my comfort zone and didn't want any changes.

My H changed so much over the last couple of years I could hardly recognse the person I married all those years ago.

[Johnee S]

Same here she changed a lot, she wants to be the immature party girl living it up, I watched her go froma commited and loving mother and wife to a stranger who did things behind my back as opposed to coming out and telling changes she needed to stay happily ever after.

I've always been the work horse for the marriage, giving up everything for my family; while she continued it her way never comprimising what I needed or wanted out of our life together, like being together as a couple not just as parents. The more I think about all this the more I wonder how long she's really been my Wife vs being someone else's online flirt toy. It disgusts me how someone so special to me can be so damm evil, betraying, and decetiful yet pretend its all fine and ok.

She needs serious help but she'll never admit to that nor whill she ever go and seek it. I pity her so much it hurts seeing the woman I devoted my life to turn out so horrible and rotten inside. She is living in an illusion and when it falls I don't know if I want to be there for her, I don't know if I can allow myself to be there for her after all this. She puts on a fake mask with her friends yet none of them say anything to her about it, they know she's making a lot of mistakes in her life yet the only one with enough courage to tell her how it really is vs. what she thinks it is. I've been the only one to tell her what she is doing and what her actions will cause in the long term.

Sigh even with all this before me why do I still love her so much?

[j92cool]

You love her because you see the person you married not the person they are now. Everyday you probaly see a snipet of the person she was and that is enough to give you hope. Whenever I was thinking of calling it quits and walking away he would do or say something that would remind me of the good days and I would stop in my tracks. He had to end it as I never would have. I would have kept trying and trying.:(

[Raymond]

Johnee I think you are handling it perfectly. You are the first man on here I have ever said that to. This chap has a deceptive hold on her which could lead to her demise were it allowed to proceed. Your conditions for her to come back are perfect. You are obviously a man of character but she has a streak or weakness that leads her astray. I have a hunch that your medicine may work in the long run. Either that or you will know exactly where you stand.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Thanks Raymond its good to hear something positive out of all this. j92cool that may be so, however you both are going to miss out on something that was once so special, your situation, feelings, and outlook differ from my own after all not one of us is the same. All i can do now is be still and let the pain run its course, I'm over the shoc of it all, now i'm in the anger zone following shortly is the sadness. I am not looking forward to this part.

I've made myself completely vulnerable to my Dawn, that is true love... I love her with every fiber of my being and essence, I lost her before and I found her again. I know she is lost and only she can find her way back to the safety and comforts of our love for one another. I cannot bring her back as much as I wish i could, she has to figure it all out on her own. She blames me and I understand that is where she is at the moment; I know one day she will realize everything and when she does i will be waiting either as her husband or her friend.

I don't want her to go through this ordeal alone but thats her choice now. I stand by my actions and choices and I do believe love conquers all. Call me selfish or stubborn but that is my belief and my convction, nothing will be more challenging then time and patience. I know some of you say let her go and I will, but I won't let her go completely from my life. We share a bond deeper then anything imaginable we share a bond of our children and that is omething that can never be broken by anything or anyone; not even each other.

She will go on with her live as she feels she must, I will do the same; however I will always love her no matter what she does or where she goes in her life. She is my best friend, my lover, my Wife, my lost soul mate even if she moves onto another, to me she will always be my true love and nothing or no one can take that away from me. I may grow to love agin but that will be a different chapter in life...

of the things I found in love
No moment is better then this

Of all the things I've ever known
Nothing prepared me for your kiss

If we fly
If we fly
If we fly

If we fly into the sun
of all the things I needed baby
You were my cherised one

Little bird told me that you can't find your way home
Little birdie showed me that you can't run away from Love

Jazzanova - Little Bird (ft. Jose James)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6CmEcCndGU

[j92cool]

Fair enough. Sounds like you have a handle on it. Best of luck hope it all works out for the best.

[Raymond]

I have a question Johnee. What does she blame you about? Are there any grounds or truth in it?

Also I think you are wise in leaving her alone. You cannot give her any comfort in adultery. She'd walk all over you. Reminds me of the prodigal son in the bible who wasted all his inheritance on girls and booze etc. When he came to himself, repented and humbly went home he was accepted. She needs to get to that place, if she does, before you can do anything. Even if she does it won't be plain sailing. She will have been injured and will need healing within. All you can do is leave the door open. How long you do that is up to you. She may be in danger of you being snapped up by someone else.

Raymond

[clockwork orange]

Hi Johnee

I agree with Raymond. You are handling things about as perfectly as it is possible to do. The conditions you have set out for her to return are right, stick to them. My husband set out similar ones for me when I strayed - 2 years down the line now, and I'm glad he did that. Quite aside from the necessity if he was going to be able to trust me again, my respect for him grew from that too. He stood his ground, firm in the Lord, and the Lord honoured that. Without repentance on my part, and a willingness to set myself under his authority, there would have been no way forward. So stick to your guns - God will reward your integrity in His time.

CO

[crush]

Hi Johnee S sorry to hear of your heartache. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Like you have been married for 14 years in August and have 3 children. My H came home from work 5.1/2 weeks ago and just told me he was leaving me for a woman he had been kind of seeing (nothing sexual) but I do find that hard to believe. He had been texting her and seeing her when I was working taking our children to her house so they could play with her kids. Its horrible to imagine I know. Maybe they are going through some mid life crisis. I mean he told me that he loved her and had found his soul mate, how could that be true in the time frame given. I feel my H is having a mad mlc and am only hoping he comes to his senses before its too late. I think in your case and mine they are running away from life to something they think they need and have been missing. Oh God how wrong they are. He walked out on his 3 children which is something I would never have imagined he would do. And as yours mine are heartbroken. Despite everything I still love my H to bits but know that so much has happened in a short space of time. Could I ever bring myself to forgive him, I honestly don't know. I want to but at this time it is not a choice I have to make. I do believe in Karma and believe that what goes around comes around and only hope for both you and me that they live to regret their actions. Such a selfish act when it destroys so many lives.

[Johnee S]

I have forgiven my Wife for her going a stray. I have acceptted the expereince for what it is. She is on the defensive and does not think I am being fair to her having her leave. She made the choice not me what other choices did I have left in the matter? I am not leaving my home and kids.

As for what I am blamed for pick something that fails in marriage and bank on her blaming me for it. Most of our debt problems was due to both our poor choices and lack of an action plan to work it down. I did not nurture our relationship enough although she did not either. I did not appreciate her enough as she did not appreciate me enough. We both just stopped trying to be husband and wife and instead took on the role of roomies and parents. We still had intimcy and a little affection that has never been an issue however; it was not enough for her.

I think she just stopped believing in working on the marriage and trying to make this better through communication, that has always been one of the toughest challenges we both faced. We are stuborn and pig headed towards one another, despite my love being true hers is not. She has already gotten over me and picked someone new even if its long distance.

I have not been the best Dad having been raised in broken home and being on my own on the streets at age 15, it wasn't until I got together with Dawn that I learned what true meaning of family was about. About 2 months into dating I was kicked out of my apartment because I could not afford to pay rent, eat, or anything. She went to her parents and they took me in and let me stay until I got on my feet again, they even helped me find a room mate from one of the family friends co workers. They loved me and accepted me and I learned to be confident and strong for myself.

Today they stopped by with a video and book Video: Fireproof Never Leave Your Partner Behind - a story about a fireman and his wife and what it takes to win marriage. Book: The Love Dare - by Stephen & Alex Kendrick - a 40 day journey to rebuild the relationship. They asked dawn and I to take the challenge and watch the video together. W replied that it took her a lot of courage to leave me as she has wanted to do so many times before and she does not think it will change anything; however she did not say she would not.

So if by chance she decides to give this a go what do I do about her online addiction and her online BF? Do I stick to my guns and take the risk of destroying our chances altogether? She left this past Tuesday physically, but mentally and emotionally she says she left 2 years ago. I thought she and I were making progress and getting things back in order and being more together for each other since last September, only to find out she's been seeing her online BF since Novemeber last year.

I don't want to give up but if that is what she truly wants I cannot change that. I know she will become cold and distance herself from me further by my not letting her live here while I move out. I cannot allow myself to do that again, the kids need me to be their strength, I forsee our kids will be neglected as she will undoubtably sink back into her routine of online PC fantasy while our youngest is watched by the TV while not eating.

With summer approaching, she tends to be outdoors more which is great it will get her away from the computer but at night once the kids are asleep she will be down stairs on the computer in her fantasy world from the time she gets home from work until she is about to pass out (between 11:00pm - 4:30am).

She's lost a lot of weight sine being on the fantasy world, she does not eat well nor does our youngest.

[Johnee S]

Crush I know what you are going through too and it breaks my heart seeing someone else in the same boat... and you are right they are running away from their problems and short term pains. My W is not able to see the long term advantages of working things out for good, she has already convinced herself she is doing the right thing.

[RayCub]

Oh guys, I know exactly what you're going through. My H has been gone for almost three months now, and "technically" gone for just over two. He feels like he's escaped our marriage, like he had been forcing himself to stay for years. At least that's what he's telling himself and anyone who will listen. Of course, he's recreating our realtionship and our history in order to justify what he's done: if he was ever unhappy, he never showed it. the man deserves a freakin' Academy Award. Either that, or he is the world's best liar. Regardless, he he gone and isn't looking back.

I hope one day he realizes what he gave up to be "happy". His beautiful children are paying for his happiness with their tears. No matter what happens between us as a couple, they so did not dererve this from him.

Some people just can't see beyond their own selfish needs. Sad.

[crush]

RayCub I totally agree, they are so selfish they just cannot see what they are doing. Only last Friday he was having serious doubts about her and was telling me all sorts and it really wasn't pretty but still here I am wondering what he hell is going on and he is living happily again with her. Non of this makes any sense to me. I need him to feel our pain and anguish, whether he ever will remains to be seen. I know one day he has to look back at what he threw away and know the heartache he has caused but then he will have to live with the consequences.

[Raymond]

Johnee you must stick the conditions you set as a pre-requisite for her coming back. You realise that you have both not worked on your relationship but this online game and flirting cannot ever happen in your house again. She is obviously addicted to it and it affecting her behaviour in extreme ways. I believe it has had a huge affect on her behaviour and should be ditched with a vengeance.

If she won't come back then you will have to say that you have been released from impending misery. Without that repentance there is no way forward I feel. If she sinks low enough she will accept you conditions gladly.

These marriage videos sound good. If she agreed to watch them some seeds may go in. You never know.

It sounds as if she has good parents so maybe there is something deep down in there which needs to come out of her.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

yesterday morning I woke her up as she stayed over while i worked all night... I think anger phase officially hit me and I said a lot of things like i don't love you anymore your not the woman I fell in love with. Your deciept has destroyed my love and trust for you. Sheis still talking and interacting with this guy froma new cell the person she is staying with gave her. The mutual friend she is staying with has no dea about the relationship she has with the other guy she is always texting and talking to.

Mom and Dad stopped by Sunday to meet us (she was picking up our daughter to spend the day with), they presented the both of us with a final plea to make amends and put our marriage in check and to get back together to give it one last go. They provided us a Video and Book with a 41 day challenge (it’s very Christian oriented) it is a series of doing 41 things 1 per day for ourselves and each other; we also have to take God into our hearts in order to seek forgiveness and love for one another.

She took the book and video when she left in tears for what i said to her, finally I got it off my chest and I felt terrible but it was nessessary for my own sanity. She needed to hear what i had to say and let me vent out I was not screaming or yelling but my tone was harsh and softened over time. She said she's scared and she doesn't know what she's doing or going to do. Finally some emotion came out of her but she still talks to her online BF. So that means she has no interest in trying to make resolution regarding our relationship. As stated by many so far, she's already moved on, so why does she just not out right say its done and let me go. Why does she have to keep twisting the blade in deeper and deeper into my heart? Why does she have to play head games with me? Has she become so self involved she cannot see or does not care what its doing to me and how its affecting the kids?

Every day I become colder and colder to wanting to resolve this between us, every moment I just feel the anger swelling up but I realize its anger at myself for aloowing to get to this point and at her for not being honest with me. I look at all her belongings and I want to get a bunch of boxes, pack her things up and leave them outside on the patio deck for her to see and take when she comes over next. My heart is growing darker by the second and I feel like there is no more light inside and I've been abandoned by my one true love in every way.

I can't believe the waves of emotions surging through me like a tital wave! One moment I'm sad, one moment I'm happy thinking we can do this, the next I'm angry because all i can see is her and her online fling boy talking and interacting and its consuming me. My kids cannot see me like this and I hide it well from them. I don't let them se my pain. I don't show them my weakness, I don't show them anything but my love for them. I broke down for a moment during our family supper last night. I wanted my W to be there with us but she chose to go to our mutual friends for a BBQ to see off his gardener whom she knew for 4 days. She bounced her family for someone she knew for 4 days, how wack is that?

If she thinks she can just walse into my life and make a new start she's in for the challenge of her life. She needs to regain my trust, my respect for her, my love, and prove she deserves to be there with us. No child should ever be with out their mother, as "Mother is the name for God on all the hearts and lips of all children."

To make things worse I called her a while ago after picking up my car from the inpound lot and challenged her to spill the beans and tell me right now what she is going to do or else its over completely, she said no I am going back to sleep, I said fine its done then and she hung up. I've never yelled like that on the phone or in person with her before, I just want her to tell me straight up its done or its not done, if its not done then she has to kill her relations with her online BF to start, but we all know that she'll never do that.

I have the day off today before I run a 7 straight nights to work, I will tell her she can stay over when I work providing she is going to talk to me about this mess and tell me straight otherwise she can get her things and get out and see the kids when I'm either sleeping or during family activities such as Sunday dinner at Mom and Dad's or during holidays. I will not give her power over my heart anymore. It takes a lifetime to gain trust; it takes a second to destroy it.

[Johnee S]

Johnee you must stick the conditions you set as a pre-requisite for her coming back. You realise that you have both not worked on your relationship but this online game and flirting cannot ever happen in your house again. She is obviously addicted to it and it affecting her behaviour in extreme ways. I believe it has had a huge affect on her behaviour and should be ditched with a vengeance.

If she won't come back then you will have to say that you have been released from impending misery. Without that repentance there is no way forward I feel. If she sinks low enough she will accept you conditions gladly.

These marriage videos sound good. If she agreed to watch them some seeds may go in. You never know.

It sounds as if she has good parents so maybe there is something deep down in there which needs to come out of her.

Raymond

Raymond, I appreciate the encouragement, but my anger has taken hold, my whole being is enraged... I cannot stop her from doing what ever she does, I've always given her the benifit of the doubt on every occasion. I know i've not been the greatest spouce in the world, who really is? It is with courage, chose to love or not to love.

Her addiction destroyed us and I told her well before she and her BF crossed the line to get a grip and come back to reality. She lost so much weight and she is very pale, the glow in her eyes is gone, and in many ways she died inside, no energy and she simply started to look blood shot eyes and bags under her eyes; almost like a junkie. Its odd though she comes alive at night to go party it up and live it up with her friends, but makes every excuse in the book when it comes to her and I needing to talk things over.

She neglected our kids resulting in our youngest being malnurished. He now has an eating disorder much like she has. He has similar behaviors when it comes to eating peck here peck there and his energy is lower then an average 5 year old; before when he was fine he was bouncing off the walls litterally, he's our little monkey who never tired out until bed time. His personality went from jumping monkey personality to a dried up battery; I had no idea about any of this while I was working IT during the day, I'd come home around 5:30 and he was in his pejay's still playing XBox 360, or watching TV, or playing Game boy, or on my PC. I was on her case about this for last 2 months, no change...

I've been struggling to get him to eat more during meals by sitting with him encouraging him to keep eating, and playing outside every day for hours after his brother got from school giving up sleep to ensure they were ok. I take him for walks while his brothers at school, read to him , play toys with him and avoid TV and video games to ease him off his gaming addictions. I track everything he eats and monitor his energy levels and over all personality, finally after 2 weeks there is improvement but not consistant improvement. He is my mini me a mirror image ever since he was born, my Dad is amazed on how much he resmbles me in personality, attitude, energy, and his facial features, and his looks.

I put his pictures beside mine at his age and people can't tell the difference half the time. My Mom thought I sent her pictures of me instead of our youngest, I had to convince her it was him and sent pics of all of us together. it brought back a lot of stories and memories she and I shared.

[Johnee S]

RayCub I totally agree, they are so selfish they just cannot see what they are doing. Only last Friday he was having serious doubts about her and was telling me all sorts and it really wasn't pretty but still here I am wondering what he hell is going on and he is living happily again with her. Non of this makes any sense to me. I need him to feel our pain and anguish, whether he ever will remains to be seen. I know one day he has to look back at what he threw away and know the heartache he has caused but then he will have to live with the consequences.

I ask myself if I take her back will she hurt me again in a couple weeks, months, years? Will she betray me a 3rd time? Can I afford to get held back and knocked down again by her inability to remain true, honest, and loyal? She broke her vows to me does she even know the meaning of marriage anymore? I seriously think her selfishness, and lack of respect and honesty have damaged me enough. I can't do this BS cycle anymore, I refuse to allow myself to fall into her spider webs of lies.

[Raymond]

You have to do what you have to do Johnee. If you want to let her go which you are entitled to do you have the right. She left you.

Be careful of the anger. It's understandable but won't achieve anything. If you have to move on you don't want to be bitter as that could affect you and everyone around you. I sense your attitude changing. At first you were hanging on and wanted her back but now you seem different. You have to protect yourself of course if she cannot keep her commitment.

The partying will take it's toll. This isn't partying in the nice sense. There is a big void there and it seems she is getting more and more sucked into something sinister. I wonder what else is going on here quite frankly. is it drugs or something worse?

Raymond

[Johnee S]

It's not drugs, if it were I'd have checked her into rehab. I believe it is her inablity to take the step she took all the way as in letting me go. She's on her way over soon and we're going to have "the talk" finally. if she says she wants to get back together she knows what I expect her to start off with. If she is unwilling then that is her choice. nothing I can do or say will change anything. I just want an answer once and for all. Deep down i want to be with her, she's making it easier to drop her like a bad habit. Anyone knows habits are hard to drop so either way it's going to be hard as ****. I just need an answer and that's all, whatever she decides is what it is nothing more. I just want peace of mind knowing where she trully stands in all of this. That way I can act and put it to bed.

[yogamad]

Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time Johnee. I hope your talk goes ok and you manage to sort things out between you. It sounds as if your wife is failing as a wife and as a mother. Look after yourself and look after your kids, especially your youngest one.

I watched Fireproof, that film you were talking about. I watched it by myself and apart from the acting which was quite bad, the film was ok. It does make you think about your attitude and how little things can change a situation.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.
Take care.

[Johnee S]

I never got to watch it nor will I be anytime soon. She and I talked and she does not have the love for me she once had, its gone. She loves me but not in love with me, I asked her to let me go officially so I can move on and heal. I had to hear her say it, her actions already said she moved on, but I needed her to say it. " Johnee, I'm letting you go'" the hardest words I ever heard coming out of her mouth for both of us, it was really hard for her to say it, it was really hard for me to listen.

I have been controlling and at times manipulative because of frustration and insecurity, her inablity to communicate with me made it difficult for both of us. My inability to communicate on her level made it difficult; I am a black and white kind of guy, she's more in the grey and not one or the other... In time this will fade and I must learn all I can from my mistakes.

She was feeling so uncomfortable being around me, now she doesn't have to pretend or feel guilty or whatev it is. She can finally move on as I can. We're still going to be friends and still be close. Who knows what the future may hold for us. I just hope by the time she figures out herself and what she wants in her life, I know deep down she will want to come back I just pray I will not have already moved on by then. I do love her with all my heart but at least we can now be at peace with one another.

The healing process can now begin and I told her I need the kids as that is all I have left from our life together as husband and wife. In time when she has stabalized herself mentally and financially, and has a direction in her life she is taking; I told her then we can talk about the kids care needs. In the mean time if she wants to sleep over while i work nights I'm ok with it, but she has to get out of bed when I go to sleep. I miss the warmth of her body next to mine, her scent, and her snoring; its so odd how the littlest of things you cling to mean everything once your partner is gone.

I told her she no longer has to hide anything, we're just friends now and she can tell me anything. I just hope she and I can work on friendship and be the best we can for our kids. I have big plans for myself, I felt held back a lot while we were together; now I don't have to feel that way.

[Johnee S]

I am about to go to work, the sick feeling in my stomach is back, my head aches are back, and I feel so sad. I know i have to let her go but its so hard after being together for 16.5 years. I hope she will be close with me as a friend. I need her in my life even if it's only plutonic.

I am beginning to doubt myself all over again, I know I have to stay strong and it will take time but I'm falling apart. I want to prove I am the one!

[Raymond]

She is the one who has left you. She has chosen this drifter for want of a better word. She is obviously mixed up and nothing can work with her like that. Maybe there are things you could have changed in yourself. Usually love and understanding are the main keys. No control etc. Listening and loving. As it is she has made her bed and has to lie on it and you need to now be healed from all this which will without a doubt happen. I would look forward now and not back and work out your new life. Theres a chance that she may repent and come back but I wouldn't pine about it as it will stop you being healed and hinder your future.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

My son was crying this morning when I woke him up for school, Dawn didn't show up here after work last night, the kids were waiting and waiting. It broke my heart that she would be more concerned with getting with her boo online then being with her kids. sigh

[Raymond]

It is sad. It looks like you will have to be mother and father for a while. The desertion of the mother could have a big effect on the children affecting them according to how young they are. The younger they are the more sensitive to it they will be so they will need all your encouragement and love so as not to grow up with an inner wound.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Spoke to my W about this, she had to work later then normal and went home thinking they were already asleep. She knows they wait for her every night she's not home.. I meet the mediation officer in the morning

I am nervous about it as Wife thinks I'm going to give her a verbal bashing about how its all hers and her online BFs fault. I told her that that's only part of the problem and that I've contributed in many ways to her breaking point and decision to move out, having her online BF in her corner did make it much easier for her to do.

She has no place to go and has been looking for a place to live with little to no luck. She will have to go to her Mom and Dad to see if she can stay there or she may talk to more friends. I've no idea she has not said anythign and is still expecting me to be the one to move out so she can move in.

I told her not going to happen, she chose give up and continue with her online BF, I never forced or made her do the things she did. She pretended everything was fine and never told me her honest thoughts about us and what we could do together to fix things before she gave up...

She's trying to play guilt cards and crocidile tears, I see through it and she knows it. I told her we need to get past all the BS and work things out, I told her she lets sometimes lets the woman I fell in love with out sometimes in some of the little things she's done over the years and I know she's in there, and she needs to get help whic she is in full denial on.

This makes her feel like I'm cornering her so I've decided to not say anything regarding us except during the mediation meetings, since she is getting upset, feeling trapped, or whatev. She doesn't tell me what she is really feeling but I see it in her face and body expressions.

She talked to her Mom about what happened this past Monday morning when I snapped, she went over there today with our youngest so I could sleep. She is staying over tonight while I work to go on a field trip with our son atschool to the zoo with our youngest in tow. I meet the mediaction officer tomorrow morning then home to sleep. Wife meets the mediation officer Monday, after that i think we do one together. I know Dawn wants me out and her in, but as I said the kids are the only strength I have right now, I will not leave, she wants to come home she has to be willing to work on things.

[Raymond]

Johnee, no way you move out of your home. Get that straight. I know you know this but I re-inforce it. She is the one who left trying to go off with this criminal. No way you should lose your home and kids. If she wants to come back she is welcome.

I think there is room here to move. The medicine could work in the long run. Keep to the rules you originally set. If she comes back no online fantasy gaming etc.

In the meantime try not to lose your rag with her. I can't stress enough that you should stick to your original rules. It may just work given enough time. She is like the wandering prodigal son who may just come to herself eventually. Hopefully her parents will feed sense to her. It's no way for a wife to behave.

In the meantime you try and see how you could be a better husband. This is the carrot side (you still need the stick side). She needs something nice to come home to, but whatever you do don't grovel.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Raymond, The best parent for young boys is the Mom, I am thinking of maybe developing the basement and she can sleep in the basement on my days off and she can sleep in the bed when I' working. remember my objective here is to get my Wife back despite everything, the kids are my priority and seeing them with out their mom is killing me.

Her parents think she should be the one here instead of me, naturally but they insist she will need to make major changes in her life personally in order to do so. I went the the mediator this morning and my W sees her Monday AM. Then we both go in together and discuss what we both want, I am hoping she comes to her senses and sees just how serious I am and what I am prepared to do to make this as easy on her as I can while sticking to my guns.

I am hoping her Mom talk with her some more. I will settle as room mates if that at least keeps Mom and dad in the same house for the kids. I cannot put myself ahead of them neither can she. I can't force her to give up her online thing with her BF, only she can. Will I go crazy? No not really, can I live like that? Well I can for a few months to allow the both of us to heal and either figure out a life together as a couple or one of us moving out. She is in no shape to live on her own and she knows that. She will need to make many changes quickly if she really wants to be here.

[Raymond]

mmm It's your decision. It would be a weird set-up. Her in the basement flirting with her boyfriend and playing online games. Where would the children's loyalty be with divided parents living in the same house and sleeping on different floors? You don't want it to be them and us.

Can you not say, give it another three weeks to see if she comes round? Her parents seem to be talking sense to her.

You have to do what you want. We are only people who you don't know and don't have to pick up the pieces if we are wrong.

I thought you was right the first time. Now I am confused but if you think that the children will be damaged without her as the mother you have to make the decision you think is best.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

I am thinkking what is best for the kids, I am setting aside my ego and dealing with my feelings as they come. I am no longer dwelling on this whole thing. I think her goign after this online thing is a silent plea for attention, help, and to rescue her. I've been doing a lot of reading on this sort of thing and the mental affects of feeling unwanted, abandoned, hurt, disappointed, etc etc. It does not excuse her for her actions and I still stand firm in what I orgianlly posted on what I expect her to do and follow.

I realized that it maybe the right thing to give her the final choice, accepting things as they are, it makes it a lot easier to live with it for now, it lowers her defenses a lot, and she is not as edgy or worried i'm going guns blazing WWIII. I can concentrate on my own needs and healing, she can do whatev she chooses (hopefully) the right thing. I want to make our relationship work and am prepared to stand my ground and live my life, and give her the benifit ofg the doubt.

Neither she or I are finacially capable of living on our own, I have a job interview on Thursfday and I know I'll nail the interview the job is perfect for me and I know I will do very well for them. the pay is double what I make now and this would allow me to kill all the debt I have in 1.5 - 2 years completely.

After my W has seen the mediator then when we all get together mediations, W and me we will be discussing childrens needs, who pays what, who cares for them how often and when, who is main care giver, who lives where and how often, who pays for what, who is taking the kids to counselling, by law we have to attend a course on parenting after seperation, and a couple other programs (no problems for either of us).

Its odd when i came to realize releasing my ego freed me from feeling sad, sorry for myself, hurt, etc I no longer felt or looked like a broken spirit, in fact it was like part of the old me was back. Laws of Attraction seem to be working for me and self affirmation to keep my spirits up seems to making all the difference to me. I still feel the sadness but it doesn't control me. My W was over last night zoo trip with boys for school, when she saw me she said "I really miss you Johnee." as she hugged me close and tight.

It felt wonderful and I absorbed it and let it go. By not clinging to our past relationship makes it easier to go forward wither starting fresh or being close friends... either way I think I can do this. I may not have the same level of faith and belief in our relationship and I'm ok with that, I put majority of my faith and beliefs into myself and God to see me through this. God came to me last night and told me what I have to do and that God's love surrounds me; God said my forgiving heart is why I had to go through this ordeal to test myself and be true to myself and my needs and more importantly to know ultimately our childrens and yes even my W's needs.

Call me crazy but I'm a believer! God does not speak to me like he's standing or sitting beside me, God spoke through my mind and spirit. My heart weas at peace during that time so I knew instantly being filled with love and light and hearing a deep voice... What I was told shook me to the core!

[Raymond]

Do what you have peace about doing Johnee. Its good and right you are concerned about the children. The road goes on and we have freedom to choose the right things for our lives and for others.

Good news about the job.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Thank you Raymond your support is inspiring, I didn't cry, feel sad, or even regret anything the last 24 hours. In fact I feel great about myself, I feel super charged and ready to take on any challenge that faces me and meet it with optimism and courage.

I am sticking to my guns but I am going to be fair and patient. I do expect change but I will be focusing change through the "Laws of Attraction" It's really funny I convinced myself I was going to get a new job Thursday night while driving around the city for 10 hours, I convinced myself I am over the pain and it can no longer control and hurt me. I took charge of my ego and faced my fears and made peace with them. I have been using affirmations for 8 days and am already seeing changes, little ones but good change none the less. I believe in what I am doing, I know I must make the changes, and I belief in the benifit of the changes.

Yesterday I woke up to Dawn looking for our youngest sons birth certificate to get him registered for kindergarden at the local school our older son attends, I helped her find it and we talked for a bit, not about the relationship or the problems.

We just talked about the day, the night, and I used the opportunity to let her know the kids and I miss her very much and we would like her to come home when she is ready; that we need her as much as she needs us. She lit up and smiled, she opened her arms to me and hugged me. I felt her tears on my cheek and she told me she's really misses me (I know mentioned on above thread). For the first time in ages I felt my Wife really open up and expose her vulnerability to me. I accepted the monent, took it in for what it was and let it go.

She text me during her DJ show last night around 12:15 am, she asked me how I was doing, I was patrolling tower floors and stairwells at that time and I replied I am ok just bored silly. I asked her how she was doing, she said it was a slow night at the pub. I used to DJ that pub for 7 years since grand opening day, while I was there it was the hot spot of the north; when I toook a much needed break from DJing to give more time at home soe other guys took over and killed what I spent those years building up. I went back rebuilt the client base and it weas busy again and my W took over and the last 2 years she's made that place a very fun and entertaining spot for friends and family to enjoy anight of dancing and music trivia.

I replied not to worry it happens hang in there it will be busier tomorrow night. Her reply she'd call me after her show, which she did when she got back to our friends house to sleep. We talked for 20 minutes about my up and coming interview, details on the job, she said she felt my excitement; she asked me why I was smiling and happy this afternoon when I saw her. I replied well I decided I was simply going to live my life to the fullest and make the most of everything before me, that I made a choice to just "BE", I finally made peace with my inner demons.

I told her I did not have time to dwell on the past when I have mine and our families futures to plan and work on, and that I understood and accepted where she needed to be and that I no longer wished to discuss our past issues until she felt comfortable enough to talk with me and that I'd listen to what she had to say. She said she saw the light in me again she felt comfortable and safe around me. The funny thing is she hasn't text me at all the last few years so it was quite a nice surprise. I wonder if god is talking with her (even though she admits to not being a believer- her parents are as is her brother).

She has the book and video, I'd only skimmed through the book and had not watced the video. I know she's thinking things through and can sense the processing in her mind. I told her about the Secret and that she needs to read it sooner rather then later and that I was going to thank her friend for giving it to her for her Bday last summer which is coming up June 1st. I sent him a Facebook message when I got home thanking him for the inspirational gift.

Planning a family picnic somwhere in K-country about an hours drive close to Canmore or Banff for my W's Bday. I am not getting my hopes up, my affirmations and my mind have already set the course of what is going to be happening to myself, Dawn, and our kids. I just have to maintain course and heading, make adjustments to avoid bumps and iceburgs along the way. I see much more with clarity and certainty, more then I have in the last 5-6 years!

I truly believe I have ultimate power and control over my life and environment. I had forgotten how much power I've had over the years and how much inspiration and influence I bring to people just being and believing in myself and not what I think others want me to be.

I'll keep you all posted on the events that are about to unfold. I am preparing the basement for another bed for when Dawn returns, I am giving her space and privacy and taking things slowly; I am sharing the reins of life with my W. The opportunities are endless and I know my potential is beyond doubt, pain, and completely where I decide to take my life.

God Bless, for I know with out a shred of doubt God is with us and God is with me. You could say I've been awakened by God's love.

[Raymond]

That sounds really good Johnee. I sense a thawing there in her. When you choose to do the right things situations can open up. You are an unusual person and I really pray it works out.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Raymond thank you for your heart felt prayers, they mean a lot to me. Yes I am very unusual in the sense of not being typical. I had let my emotions control me regaridng what I wanted to do and what to say but it never came out the way I wanted them to as they were reactive and defensive emotional content. When I accepted this realxzation to them and let them go, I was able to become level headed. I stepped back and moved on with out her.

his kind of lit a spark within me to improve in areas I need to work on and it works! I feel really good about me and that's the important thing here. As long as I am happy about myself I feel much better. The thing about changing things you need to change within often becomes contageous, the big thing is keeping the pace of it and being consistant, don't let yourself slide back to square one otherwise you need to start over kind of like a board game. People around you take notice and look within themselves and begin to challenge themselves.

It may be something small or it may be something life changing. Either way you stick with your plan for yourself and stop worrying about the relationship, the debt, the limited finances, whats going to happen to you in 1, 3, 5, 10 years from now. Just "BE" who you want to be with out all the crap that brings you down.

If your spouse has all the space they need, they may come around, or they may proceed in the direction they started on. You have to take that risk and let it go. My Wife called me last night during her show and told me she wants to come home. I replied when you are ready you will and left it at that.

By not pressing her and allowing her the time she needs to think things over makes all the difference in the world. I know she is thinking about what she needs to change within herself, it's near the point of making change happen for her and I applaud her for that. How far she will go is strictly in her hands not mine. If she moves forward a bit and falls back, I'm not going to press, push, or call her out. I'll let her figure it out on her own and be there as a friend to support her when she needs it.

I am giving her the lead on this for herself and simply be the friendly shoulder and strong pillar of support. I will not insult her or play the blame game, I will not manipulate or control I've learned that get your no where fast. If things begin to get heated up in anger or pain, I will simply step back and let her cool down and level out and wait for her to open up when she is comfortable. This is a time for patience and see what happens and where this goes.

I will stick to my game plan for myself and we'll both be there for our children. I still believe in the power of love and I know what I want. I will wait for it, eventually it will come and I am ready to receive it. It may not be my Wife who gives me the love I am ready for, that's ok I've accepted that and will not try to make something that's not there. Only time can heal the pain, the void is only there when you dwell on it, as long as you don't dwll and push yourself beyond your limit after a short time it becomes intuitive and instinctive. Like when you first learn to ride a bike or drive a car, we are afraid of getting hurt or hurting someone else. However with the right guidance it becomes as easy as breathing or walking, when you do it you're not really thinking about it, you're thinking about where your going and enjoying the scenary along the way.

It's funny when I joined this forum I was a wreck and my emotions ran rapidly against the flow of the current. Having grounded myself and thought things out throuroughly I am balanced more then I have been in years, which is allowing me to flow with the current as opposed to forcing myself to move against it. Anyone here who is in pain and is hurting can do thhe same for themselves, they just have to stop, look, listen within, ask yourself the right questions like: "If I am getting no where what do I need to do to manuver into a better direction for myself?" "If I am unhappy what specifically is making me unhappy?" confront it with heart and let it flow through you.

Only good can come out of this even if it's not what any of us expect it to become, I am going forward with no mind in particular as mind. I accept things as they are and I know whatever happens it is for the best for all. I still feel the pain and sadness but I can absorb them in and let them melt away with out letting them control me. When I feel bad feelings within, I let them melt away and replace them with good feelings this is my personal secret for myself.

The Universe will provide me what I desire in my life when I ask, believe, and am ready to receive.

[Johnee S]

She's moving back in as room mates i guess. I can't let her be on the streets although I'm sure her parents would give her a place in their home since she was raised there. Is she still involved with what's his name? I don't care anymore whether or not she is. She made her choice, once i'm ready I'll make mine. I'm letting her back home because the kids need her a lot. She missed being heree so maybe she might spark, maybe she won't.

We have to decide on a mediation date together where we both decide togther on the kids, home, etc. I want to work things out but I doubt she does. She keeps sending mixed signals but I choose to not accept them as anything other then what they are at the moment. I'm tossing in the towel I'm not going to fight for this if it's not worth fighting for. she has to show me it's worth it.

Should we decide to remain seperated then fine I will take everything I own with me and she can start from scratch and the kids will resent her a lot and she will fall. I will get my own home close by and make sure its a 3 BR place so the kids can be with me when they want to be. It's going to be hard and I know why should I be the one to get shafted. Well it's better for the kids. I know I will be the better parent, so we'll let the courts decide who should stay and who should go.

If it were my choice she'd be out the door and I intend on willing that to happen and in court convince the judge I am the better of the 2 of us.

[georgie]

Are you sure it's not better to work all this out without her moving back in - it seems awfully unfair if she is just moving back because the grass was not so green when she got to the other side, but then you have to leave to make way for her.
In these threads, I think it's time for the 'good' guys of the scenarios to maybe start winning a few victories.
Possession is 9 10ths of the law as they say. It sounds like she is moving back for the wrong reaons, if she were coming back to give your relationship and your family 100% that would be gr8, but not just because she didnt have the bottle to strike out on her own when that was what she wanted to do. Sorry, I'm tired again - hope this is coherent.

[Johnee S]

Ya I get the just of what you
're saying, having pressure from in-laws on this too. Not to worry the boomerangs going to hit her one way or another usually it strikes when we least expect it to. I've had my share in the past so i know what its like.

[Johnee S]

Ok thought about it last night at work, before I left for work yesterday evening had a few words with her, she was immediately uncomfortable when I brought up her mixed signals the last few days, I jjust wanted clarification and told her this. She went into red alert, shhelds up with phasers and torpedos locked on me ready to fire.

So I stepped back and said ok whatev, don't bother enlightening me with an answer, just keep being defensive and trap yourself with your old behavioral patterns all you want. I told her I just wanted clarification on things so I did not get the wrong idea or hopes up for nothing. Still nothing in response. I asked her several times to watch the Secret for her own good and how important it is for her to watch the movie as it has changed me for life, I figured it would help her as well.

After I left she did not bother grabbing the video, finished up with whatev and left herself an hour later. She's ben calling her BF from my home phone when I'm out or sleeping, and somehow I can't block the freaking number... GGGRRR! Screw it, I'm done with games and I told her not to bother coming home if she can't even answer the most simpliest questions I ask... and that she's not even ready to come home, she's no different since she left 2 weeks ago.

I don't care whether or not I should care anymore. I'm fed up with the crap. I will set up a bed in the basement for her and move her things down to the basement. She can live down here where I don't have to see her until our tax returns come in then she can GTFO and let me live my life. With both our returns she'll have more then enough to get her own place.

If she wants to go to court to take my home and kids away, she'll loose... She did clean the house for us and tok the kids to Mom and Dads for dinner last night, I was too tired to go so I slept, 9 hours straight :) I'm going out on a blind date with a friends friend who just ended a 5 year relationship and has a daughter, god I hope she's not emo depressing. If she is I'll just say "look I got out of 16 year relationship I don't need to be dragged down... into depression I'm here to have fun let's go dance..." if that doesn't work then shemay as well leave, I'm going out to have fun and enjoy myself for once.

[Johnee S]

Decided no she can't come home... told her she needs to get her mind made up and told her where I stand... I tried to talk with her last night before work, she shot me down as far as talking, I just asked her why she's giving me mixed signals and she went into defense mode. screw it.

She might be able to stay at Mark's for a week at most after that she's on her own. I'm not going to offer her to stay here it's a waste of my time, effort and energy. I'm moving on now and she doesn't deserve me or this home we made together after everything she's done behind my back all these years.

[Johnee S]

testing testing

[Raymond]

I agree with Georgie here.

Raymond

[Johnee S]

Bumpity bump bump bump

[Johnee S]

Bumpity bump bump bump just to tract this thread