The pain won't go away

[GTR]

It has been almost two years since I found a letter in my husband's car from the woman he was having an affair with. Just like everyone else involved in the devastating aftermath of finding out that their partner is a liar, I feel ashamed, humiliated, confused, angry, desolated, betrayed, lost, aggrieved, dishonoured, and alone (just to name a few). He has broken away permanently from her and I listened to the conversation when he did that, so I know what was said. Will the shame of marrying a person, and choosing this person to spend the rest of my life with, ever fade? I have read everything I can get my hands on, we are both attending counselling willingly, but still I cannot find a "positive" aspect to the affair. I do not believe I am blameless, but for all my searching, I cannot fathom what it was that I did to contribute to his stupid, stupid choices. And this is where I get hopelessly lost. Everything I have researched so far suggests that both parties examine what they did to contribute to the affair, everything brilliantly describes the emotions that the non-unfaithful spouse can feel and expect, but nothing openly berates the offender and tells them of their idiocy. I can describe perfectly to my husband everything that I feel and how I have suffered, but I would love to print out some advice directed at him and hard-fact home truths about what he has done, and the possibility that he may be solely responsible without apportioning blame to me. It just seems to me that if I am willing to forgive, move on, feel and deal with the pain, then he is home and free. What are the sacrifices and forgiveness that he needs to give me. Could I have a male point of view?

[Dave]

Dear GTR

You have asked for a male point of view, and I'll do my best though I think what I have to share is just general advice, not a specifically male viewpoint.

It seems to me that both of you need to look some more at what it means to forgive. You say "It just seems to me that if I am willing to forgive, move on, feel and deal with the pain, then he is home and free. " My answer to that is "YES" - that is what forgiveness means - setting the other person free, undeservedly. "I forgive you" means that I will now set aside the price you ought to pay so that we can move forward -- it is the only route out of continuing manipulation both ways. You might like to search this site (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/php-bin/search.php?searchview=priority&query=forgiveness) on the term forgiveness (the search box is on the left of your screen) to see some of the articles.

You also ask what he should be doing to re-build the relationship with you - only you know that - the special things that mean so much to us are often hard for even our partner to really guess. The line "If you really loved me you'd know!" is one of the great myths of love - it says if you really loved me you'd be a mind-reader!! One way to explore this would be to get the book "The five languages of love" (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/books/fivelovelang/) and work through it together - find out what each of you has as their most important way to be shown love, and then practice it, both ways, everyday.

From a male perspective, one of the most common underlying drives towards an affair is a poor self image - we men, for all our external bravado, desparately want to be reassured that we are "desirable" and manly. Of course having an affair is an absolute betrayal of the trust and promises in a marriage - but it is often motivated by the excitement of the chase, the conquest, and the resulting sense that "there, I AM still a man!!"

In many ways an affair is a display of great weakness - yet if there is to be healing it has to come through the wronged party saying "I forgive you", and then through working at showng the one who has done the wrong that he (or she) is still loved, valued and seen as desirable inspite of the hurt caused.

May be not a very "male" viewpoint, but I hope it helps, though it certainly isn't easy.

Dave

[GTR]

Thank you for your reply Dave. I did just as you suggested and searched "forgiveness" and found one article in particular very helpful. I haven't been able to forgive just yet, but feel through our work together that I am getting there. I definitely have more of a feeling of wanting to work towards a better future rather than dwelling on hurt and anger of the past. That in itself seems a turning point, although I don't think I have actually turned the corner just yet!! Let's just say I'm moving around the bend.

There was one specific thing I asked my husband to do, and it was to phone "her" (she's so despicable, I won't even refer to her name!) in my presence, and tell her what he feels about me and how he thinks about me. But he won't do it. I felt that if he told her that he really did love me, and not her, that I would feel honoured again. Please note I did not want him to be nasty to her or denigrate her at all, I wanted the conversation to be about me + him, not her + him. I felt so dishonoured by what had been done that I know this action would have healed me very much. But alas! He won't do it. He won't write it either and mail it.

So now I find that I have discovered what I need him to do for me personally, I asked nicely for it, and he has rejected it. Maybe it's ego, embarassment, shame, guilt, or something else. I haven't asked him to do it out of spite or revenge, but believe very much that it is something he can do practically to help put some of the wrong right.

In the meantime, I will focus on forgiveness because it seems that this is the key issue. In spite of everything, I still do love him. I believe he loves me too.

I would greatly appreciate any further advice Dave, you seem to have been the first person who has actually made any sense to me.

Gillian



:(

[Dave]

Dear Gillian

Thanks for your kind words - I'm glad I make sense to someone!!

I think I understand your need to be honoured by your husband through this very clear statement of his love for you. However I do think you need to really think about your motives in insisting he phones/writes to "her" in this respect - to me it still sounds as if you want to extract some kind of "price" for your forgiveness - remember it needs to be a "free gift".

If the real issue is to have your husband openly and publically declare his love for you then why not look for some ways HE wants to do this too. Have you thought about some kind of ceremony of re-afirmation of your marriage vows, or perhaps he could write about his love for you here!!

Do take a look at the book I mentioned last time as I think it could really be useful to you both. Perhaps another possibility would be to take a Marriage Encounter weekend (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/healthclub/servprov/marenhres/meang/) or similar - this would be a great way to build a strong future together.

Good luck

Dave

[Unregistered]

I too asked for my husband to phone 'her' in our own situation. After much haggling he did. But although it gave some solice at the time I later found he had rung her again afterwards to say he didn't mean it and he HAD to do it at the time.

It wasn't what I had hoped for at the time either as he didn't use the words I would have hoped for, it was more evasive than 'I love my wife & want to be with her'.

At a later stage, we even met up - me & my husband, her & her husband - supposedly for my husband to tell her it was over & he wanted to be with me. But again it was not what I had hoped for. He persisted in saying - 'it's just not worth it' rather than the declaration of love for me that I needed. I knew it was merely a going through the motions without genuine remorse or affection for me. Infact, I left for a week or so afterwards in hope this would help him to get his feelings together, just to find out when I got back that 'she' had phoned him again after that meeting to see what he really felt.

I should have seen all the signs then but convinced myself that he did really love me. I wanted it so bad I refused to give up hoping he would do & tell me what I needed to hear.

Are you the same GTR - who is writing to me 'is there any hope'?
If so you will know that 4 years down the track he still has not been able to say or do these things and I feel emotionally starved. In his own way I'm sure he feels something he calls love but I know my personal needs too & I know this is not enough. He cannot give me freely what I need but would be happy for me to continue making do. It is making me desperatly unhappy but only you know if you can continue this way yourself. My only word of warning is - don't expect it to change or live your life like me hoping it will, you will probably be disappointed.

[Unregistered]

Yes, I am the GTR in the other topic. Thanks for noticing! The reason my reply sometimes comes up as unregistered is because I may write from work. The GTR is registered to my home email. It's often difficult to write from home with children and husbands wandering in and out - you have children I'm sure you know there's practically no privacy.

My husband did tell me he would be willing to phone "her", and when it didn't happen for a while, I phoned and left a not very nice message on her answering service. Of course, being the coward she is, she phoned him on his mobile phone, not me. I was not with him at the time so don't really know how the conversation went. He told me that he took the opportunity to tell her that "they" (meaning him and her) were a mistake and that he came to realise he really did love his wife. He said that she wouldn't listen to him and kept saying "I don't care, I don't care". When I asked if he would be willing to phone her again only in my presence this time, he says that she won't listen to him and quite frankly (his words) "I don't want to talk to the b*@#h."

At this point in time, although it wasn't exactly what I'd hoped for, I do feel peace now. I have come to the point where hanging on to the past will ruin any chances of our future together, and I want a happy future more than I want to feel the pain of the past. It's as simple as that.

I suppose my situation is a little different to yours because my husband came to the realisation that he was in love with me and was not willing to let me go. He has been very open with me and (largely) answered any questions I have had, no matter how unpleasant the details or how often I have asked. He has even told me that he will regret every day for the rest of his life what he has done. I don't feel any hesitation on his part, I really know he does love me, and there would be no doubt to any outsider that we care very much about each other. You know in your heart if something isn't quite right, or if someone is holding something back, and I don't feel this at all with him now. In fact our marriage is far better than it has ever been, even before his lying and deceit. It has been a long and painful process with lots of tears and feelings of hatred, ambivalence, and pride wanting to take over. I have left relationships for a whole lot less, so this stinking mess has been a major obstacle to overcome.

A while ago (January last year), I wrote a letter to "her" telling her exactly what I thought of her. But often I soothe myself with the thought that no matter how badly I have felt, when it all came to a head, he didnt want her, he wanted me. She was dropped like a hot cake. How humiliating would that be? The worst thing that could have happened to her, he delivered it. How's that for justice?

Thanks for sharing your story with me. Perhaps you are like me (and all the other women in this situation), you feel so alone. I don't have any friends who have been through this problem, I didn't want to tell my parents because I don't want them to judge him - it's hard enough trying to figure it out without your nearest and dearest getting the knives out! I have read everything I can get my hands on, both in books and on the internet, written her letters, written him letters, and we are seeing a counsellor. Both of us have issues to resolve from long before we met each other, however, we have both come to realise that we can lean on each other to sort them out, and to not be terrified of the natural waxing and waning (moreso waning) of our love for each other. Knowing that it is cyclical is comforting, and we have realised that running out on a partnership when the waning cycle is happening, isn't a solution, it just complicates things, and it will happen to every partnership you're in. So we've both consciously decided to stay put with each other for the rest of our lives, having faith that the other will be waiting when we feel like running.

I would like to share with you my coping strategies for getting divorced or separated (I had two young children at the time and no job) and will do this under your subject - "is there any hope". Your tone certainly sounds different (stronger), so perhaps you have come to accept the inevitable. Often just accepting, rather than fighting, can offer answers to your questions.

Take care of yourself, I'll write to you soon.

GTR