he had an affair- what do I do?

[32hh]

Hi,
I've never done this before- not sure of the etiquette!!! I've been married 10 years and 2 months ago I found out he'd been having an affair. Things had been bad for a while, he works away through the week and spent all his time at the weekend in the pub. Things changed before Christmas when he became even more withdrawn and distant, and starting spending a lot of time in Belfast (his hometown). I kept asking what was wrong and if there was someone else and each time was brushed aside and my fears and suspicions put down to being in my head. In late January one of his good friends died, which for a start caused the drinking to get worse than ever. He refused to let me come to the funeral, but left his phone at home. So I went through it and found calls and texts to his other woman in Belfast. WHen he came home drunk after the funeral he admitted it and said it had been going on for a couple of months, only for sex, because he was angry at how little sex we had had since our son was born 2 years ago. I knew our sex life wasn't ideal, but we went through the same after our daughter and it did get back on track eventually. But this time he just went out and sh**ged someone else. He seems to be doing the making up sorry part by the book, but how do I forgive him and get past this? How frankly do I not kill him. To be honest if we didn't have 2 kids I don'tknow if i'd still be here. What do I do? How do I move on? Help!!! (Please)

[dave123]

Don't worry about the etiquette, just post away and people will listen and help out if they feel they can.
I'm sorry you are in this terrible situation. From what you have posted your partner sounds pretty terrible. Infidelity and a lot of drinking are both unacceptable in a healthy relationship. I'm not really able to help you with advice as i don't have any personal experience of infidelity, all i would say is honestly ask yourself;

Is he genuinely going to change?
Is he sorry, or sorry he was caught?
Can i move on from this, put it behind us and build a new better relationship?

As an adult he knew that having a second child may affect things in a similar way as before, so the choice to go through with it was his. It is no excuse to go outside of your relationship.

Keep posting as it can really help. There are other people here too better able to help you out in this situation.

Take care,

Dave

[32hh]

Thanks Dave. I think he does want to change, he has stopped drinking, he spends time with me and the kids, as far as I can tell he is genuinely sorry, though I think at least part of that is just being sorry he was caught, what I don't know is whether I can move on and put it behind me. I know there's other people much worse off on here and this is quite self centred of me since he has stayed, but it's so good to hear from other people who have been betrayed too. The problem is me now, he is I think doing everything he can to fix this, I just can't forgive him. When he tells me he loves me all I can think is "not enough to be faithfull" when he tells me how important I am to him, I think "not enough". No matter what he does NOW, for me everything comes back to the fact that I was not enough THEN. I can't stop thinking of them together, and of how he would just leave her and come back to me without the slightest compunction about what he was doing to me. Even though he says he doesn't think about her, and she doesn't matter and never did, I think about her all the time, and how much sexier and cleverer and smarter and how much better her body must of been (her = no kids, me= 2 kids and the consequent ravages!!) and generally comparing myself and finding me wanting. In fairness to him he doesn't ever mention her and when I say these things to him says no, I am better than her, but if I was better than her he wouldn't have slept with her in the first place. The other thing I can't get past is no matter what he says I don't think it was just sex, he was calling her and texting her several times a day including chirstmas and new year, at a time when he barely spoke to me. I feel like she got everything he was with holding from me and so how could it be just about sex? I just keep going round and round in my head, we're going to see a counsellor, but I don't know when, they're sending us the appointment. Even the fact he's agreed to that seems to point to him changeing and wanting to make it work, as normally he is very against anything of the sort, but I just can't seem to forgive him!

[georgie]

I would really recomend talking to a counsellor over several sessions, you will be amazed to hear what you learn from yourself!
Couples counselling also.
This is a hard road to navigate without guidance.

[Raymond]

Your trust has been broken 32hh and it will take some time to restore this. He seems to be repentant here and is trying to make it up to you. If he is really repentant and does not want to ever stray again you will get to the point where he will need your forgiveness. Without that you will not be able to move on in your marriage. These things take time, but the ball will eventually be in your court on whether you can forgive him or not. I don't make light of what happened. Adultery is a terrible thing, but it needn't be the end.

Raymond

[32hh]

I just don't know if I can believe him though. He seems to be saying all the right things, but only when I bring the subject up and ask him flat out about it, otherwise he still would not ever mention it. Lots of people on here are talking about their partners claiming "not to know" or "not to remember" why they did or said certain things and a lot of the time that is exactly what he said. He claims not to know why he had to text her on Christmas Day, or all the other times he texted her here with me. The Christmas ones are the worse, in a way he got out of bed with me and went and texted her. I can't help but feel that while he doesn't want to leave, it's not because of me he wants to stay, he's just too lazy and it's easier to stay, and so he'll SAY whatever it takes to calm me down and shut me up. Apart from when I ask difficult questions like why he was texting her 5 times a day and calling her twice a day if it was only about getting a bit of extra sex, when then he just says he doesn't know why, or that he was just stringing her along or he hadn't thought he contacted her that much. I was upset as well he texted her at NewYear, with me and his parents in the room and he actually said, whats the big deal, you wouldn't have minded me texting any of my other friends? (He did admit that was a stupid thing to say). I don't feel like I know him anymore. There was the man I thought I was married to, and then there was the man who shattered my life and broke my heart, and now there is a 3rd one altogether, who agrees with everything but I think can't love or respect me or else he would never have done what he did, so everything he says is just empty lies to try and have an easy life. And if I forgive him this and try and move on is that essentially giving him a green light to do it again? He clearly had no respect for me in the first place, how can he have any if I let him get away with it? He comes out with rubbish like he respects me more becuase it is harder to stay than walk away, but I think he is just saying it. Also he wouldn't do it again because he could never hurt me again but he has ripped my heart out once so why couldn't he do it again? The kids make things so much harder as well, my little girl is 9 and adores her dad and she is old enough to be heartbroken if we split. My little boy is only 2 1/2 so if I went he would have no real memory of living as a family which is sad too and he worships his dad as well, all he wants is daddy when he is at home. If I left him it would shatter their lives, I know people say kids get over it, but if I could make this work should they have to? I feel I have to stay and give it my best shot for them, so I can look them in the eye and say I did everything I could, but sometimes I can't stand to even look at him and it seems I have to choose between their happiness and my own. And he is smug and happy because he had his little jaunt and he still has his family, and I am the one who is left in pieces. It doesn't seem fair, he should be the one who suffers, not me but I don't see anyway of doing that without making my kids suffer too! So how can I forgive him? Will counselling really help with this mess? His willingness to go is the only thing that makes me think he might be serious about this. That and the quitting drinking, but every weekend I am braced for him to announce he is "nipping out". So far he hasn't, but how long will he keep it up? Maybe I should just hire a hitman instead of a counsellor (joke- if anybody kills him it's going to be me, to make sure it's as painful as possible!! also a joke!)

[32hh]

Also does anyone know how to get rid of that stupid exclamation mark i put on the message board? I thought it would just go at the end of my message, not flag up on the board and now I can't make it go away, and it's really annoying. Sorry.

[JWD]

I think counselling will really help because because they can help you understand your feelings. It's a horrendous thing to go through and you will need support to get you through it.

I don't know what you mean about the exclamation mark. Hit man is good idea though :-)

[32hh]

Thanks everyone so much. I've been reading your threads and I realise a lot of you are going through much worse than me, so I really appreciate you taking the time to offer your support. I said I was going to moan on here rather than Yogamad's thread so I might as well. I think this is what I want. Most of my friends seem to think I am crazy (except bizarrely my divorce lawyer friend- they're not as bad as their reputations!). But despite everything, and all the horrible things I say about him, I still love him, and in my saner moments I think he loves me. In the crazier ones I think what a b**tard and want to commit GBH! We've had a lot of good years before it all went bad (I'm alot saner tonight than I was this afternoon) and he's the father of my children. I do want to save it if I can, sometimes it's just so hard. I feel a lot more positive about the counselling though, as so many of you have recommended it as being helpful. I'd looked into it and we're waiting for an appointment, but I was sort of viewing it as a box to tick, and was doubtful whether it would help. Now I am really looking forward to it and think it will at the very least help me make sense of the way I am feeling and maybe even give me some ways to make the sane moments out wiegh the crazy!!!
While I am ranting and wittering here, can I just say how stunned I was at my friends' reactions to my situation? Some people who I thought I was really close to and could always rely on for support have refused to even discuss it with me once I said I was going to stay, because they don;t approve, which is quite hurtful in itself. Others, that I never thought were the people I would call on in a crisis have been amazing (even though I only blurted it out inadvertantly when I bumped into them after an awful row) and really there for me. I'm so surprised at how judgemental some people can be and how supportive and kind others are. Has anyone else found this strange attitude, or do I just have weird friends?
Anyway, hope everyone else is having an OK night, xx

[JWD]

Whatever you decide, it's your decision. Your friends have no real idea about your marriage so they should support whatever decision you make regardless of whether they think it's right or not. This really bugs me, a woman in my work has went back to her H after an affair any my work mates are being terrible, everyone's an expert til it happens to them.

I have fallen out with a few friends too. Some have really surprised me with their lack of support. Even friends in awful relationships whom I've never judged started on me. I've made up with them now but it really does open your eyes.

You take advice where you see fit and ignore the people who tell you negative. If you take him back and it doesn't work out at least you will know that you tried. Imagine living the rest of your life wondering if it would work because old jeanie said it wouldn't. You would torture yourself.

Anyway, no need to rush it. Try think through what you would like and what is realistic and ask yourself if you feel you are both able to put the work in. Counselling won't give you all the answers but I guarantee you will feel a whole lot better about it.

[Ageing Grace]

Hi, 32 :)

Yes, counselling will help you sort your feelings out. Go for it.

Once your heart and brain have managed to re-establish communication, your big question is going to be this: exactly how important is fidelity to you? (You almost certainly will need a counsellor to find your answer.)

As you've remarked with your friends' reactions, people actually do hold varying views on it. Hilary & I started a thread in the coffee shop about it - probably at the bottom of the page now, but you could find it if you want to try out a few differing approaches in your head ...

In case you're interested, what I would do in your position would be: Cry, fume and play hell for several weeks, ideally procuring a long-drawn-out & grovelling apology plus gifts and wonderfully considerate sex ;) Then forget about it.

Not everyone can do that, but it's an option. The important thing is for YOU to know, in your secret heart of hearts, precisely how big of a deal it is to YOU - and you alone.

Wishing you good luck, whatever you do next, and happiness ...

AG

[32hh]

Do you know, the crying,fuming and playing hell part I have been doing absolutely fine on!!! I have a problem with the gifts part, he has tried but I won't take them because I feel like he's buying me off. He has always been quite generous and part of our problems were caused by the fact that whenever I tried to talk to him about how unhappy I was at the state of our marriage he responded by throwing money at the problem (I know I know, what a terrible thing to do, thank god not every one has my problems!!!!) But it made feel like I was being bought off, because I would say " I'm unhappy, you don't talk to me or spend any time with me" and he would say "Buy another pair of shoes darling". And on my side I would. Which was OK at first, but eventually is a bit crap. So now I say, "I don't want you to buy me things, I want you to talk to me" which is probably what I should have done a year ago.
My long term plan is to do as you advise though. I just don't know if I can. I hope the counselling will help.
Incedentally, he wants us to go on holiday without the children to try and rebuild things. I think it is too soon and he is buying me off again. What does anyone else think?

[dave123]

Hi 32hh,

There's lot's of things here i'd love to respond too, not sure i want to bore you to death though! I too have found some friends left wanting in the help department, and have found other 'lesser' friends who have really come through for me. It has generally been people with some experience of a real breakdown in a relationship who have been able to empathise and not judge. I hope they never have to go through it but some people really do live in cloud cuckoo land!

There's seems to be a lot of confusion (rightly so) regarding your husbands actions now, as you don't know if he is being nice, or buying you off. A break away sounds good on paper, but if you're not ready then so be it!

Maybe you could try to separate the person from the action. Look at the man you're married to as fallible, and flawed, but still the man you love. The event or events deserve to be hated and despised, but does he?

I can't recommend counseling enough, it really helped me cope with the end of my relationship, but also went a long way beyond that into other areas, and eventually became all about the future, not the past.

The pain and anger will burn itself away eventually and will leave you ready to choose the next step, doing that in a guided positive way with a counselor will be so much more positive than relying purely on your own thoughts as when you are 'in' the middle of the situation it is so hard to really see it for what it is!

Vent on here, and with the friends that are there for you, try to be positive at home, and hopefully you and your partner can talk things through at counseling. If not, perhaps arrange a time each week at home with no kids where you can talk constructively/positively about the issue and then put it to one side, until the next time.

I hope you come through it for your sake, and i hope the decision makes you happy. That is all that matters. Kids are resilient, and whilst it is preferable to stay together, they will be so much happier with 2 happy parents who are separated, than with 2 unhappy parents that are together.

Good luck ,and take care,

Dave

[Ageing Grace]

What a beautiful reply from Dave!

Just a tiny couple of thoughts, as there's little to add:

1. By going on holiday, your husband probably hopes to create a circumstance where you two can start rebuilding your togetherness. OK if that feels too intense for you right now, but try not to dismiss his desire for closeness. As Dave suggested, some joint counselling and maybe a weekly dinner date or something so you can be nice to each other ...

2. Gifts. Read the page on this site about the Five Love Languages: most people try to express love in the way they themselves prefer - it's natural. If your 'language' is talking or touching, and his is gifts, you need to recognise that fact between you. It's a communication skill :)

All the best, 32. Take it easy!

AG

[32hh]

Well AG I looked at your infidelity thread and you certainly opened a can of worms there!!lol! I do get where you were coming from and I have thought several times if it had been a one night stand I would have found it easier to deal with. But it wasn't, he was in touch with her all the time, at a time when he didn't talk to me and that's what I find so hard (I went through his phone bills, and in a spectacular piece of totally rational behaviour (!) spent an entire afternoon compliing a colour coded spread sheet to send to him detailing exactly how he had betrayed me. As you do!) And so despite what he says about it just being sex I find it hard to believe when he spent so much time talking to her and texting her. How can she have meant nothing when he was doing that? Friends have tried to reassure me that texting can be addictive in a way and you do get that heady first flush at the beginning of a romance when you are in touch all the time and quite often it burns out rapidly and nothing is left. Part of the problem is that it was still on going when I found out, he admitted he would have kept seeing her if I hadn't found out and so I feel like he must still think of her because it hadn;t run it's course. I sometimes think that whilst fidelity is important, I can get through this, we have more than just this and I won't let it break us. I think if this is the worst thing that ever happens to me, really, it's not so bad, I'm a squillion times luckier than almost everybody else in the world, just by having enough to eat and my children being healthy. That's the sane and rational me. (She dpesn't come out that often). The less sane and rational me says he has thrown everything I have given him back in my face and how can I live with that? I'm glad I'm not my counsellor! They're going to have a tall order! But H keeps telling me if we both want this to work that is the most important thing. And I think I believe him.

[32hh]

Dave, thank you, you are always so kind. I really liked what you said about H being flawed and hating what he did, but not him. I hadn't thought about it like that, but it makes a lot of sense. I know eventually my children would cope if I left him, but I would so much like to spare them that if I could. At the end of the day, I know it would be bad to stay if we were both terminally unhappy, but I don;t want to give up before then. I would rather I took the pain now, hard though it is, if it means long term gains for us all, rather than leaving 'now for a short term easy answer. Because although eventually they would cope, it would be hard for them to do that. And there is no guarentee leaving my husband would make me happy. Whereas it would definately make them very unhappy, even if they did come to terms with it. I think he is trying and I am really going to to try and stick to your "hate the sin, love the sinner" suggestion. Going to look at AG's 5 love languages as well. Can't stress how much all this is helping- thanks so much everyone!

[Ageing Grace]

spent an entire afternoon compliing a colour coded spread sheet to send to him detailing exactly how he had betrayed me. As you do!

lol, 32, I did that too!! And a chart of how our sex life had declined ... :eek:

I totally understand what you mean about the 'relationship' aspect hurting you more than the actual sex thing. I feel the same way. It's one of those things men & women rarely share a view upon (most men would be far less concerned about an 'emotional affair' than a random shag) so I think the only practical approach is just to accept the way it is.

That, of course, is the key to a long life and happiness but how to achieve it?

First & foremost - what Dave said about separating the act from the person. You wouldn't tell a child she's a horrible, untrustworthy waste of space if she did something wrong (at least, I hope you wouldn't?) - but somehow we think it's okay to completely trash our partners when they do. I was discussing this with my aunt last week - she said "No, I'd quietly ask the child why she did that."

Of course, that's the crucial question when a partner has played away. I don't believe you should be too forensic about his reasons - outside of a counsellor's room - as you'll only give each other brain damage. With the naughty child you'd listen to the reason given; aim to fix any underlying problems that were revealed; carefully explain why it was a bad thing; warn of possible consequences if they repeat the error.

Beats me why we can't give our spouses the same consideration - unlike our kids, they're with us by choice and can go find someone else who doesn't think they're horrible!

In many cases, as we see here, the cheated spouse does find their partner horrible! Often, the crisis makes them realise they really didn't like their partner much anyway - infidelity is the catalyst, not the reason for their breakup. Some people believe so passionately in exclusivity that they truly cannot forgive. You need to know where you, yourself, fall in the spectrum between 'unforgiving' and 'open marriage'. Until you do know that, you can't be confident of what form your repair process must take.

Hilary wrote that her marriage has survived affairs (on both sides, if I remember rightly). She and her husband both accepted that they couldn't be all things to one another, and failed - at certain points - to be enough. Understanding that, they forgave one another. Their process wouldn't be right for every couple, but it's a fine example of how - when you respect one another as individuals, and communicate with care & love - your marriage can recover its balance and go forwards :)

I realise you're still reeling, shocked and angry, 32. Most of the above probably sounds insane to you at the moment! I think you stand a pretty good chance of getting over this completely ... so I'm trying to add to your little store of sanity when, as you know, everyone around you has some extremist view on what you "should" do.

The only thing you should do is what's right for you personally and right for your, unique, marriage.

Oh, and good luck with the gift language!

AG ;)

[georgie]

I agree with AG on all the above. I don't think it's wise to have rigid views on most things, it's almost like tempting fate - the things you are most judgmental about seem to be what the fates like to test you on.
Affairs always seem to have a back story. Lack of sex often seems to be a surface issue, I think it often comes down to a build up of resentment and lack of proper communication. The old basic thing He needs to be admired and she needs to be appreciated. Sometimes you have to ask did he jump or was he pushed.. I'm not saying its justiied, but its human, it's weakness, and we are all weak at times.
Can you let it go (not now, but can you see a time), do you want to?

[32hh]

I really want to let it go Georgie, I just need to work out how. I know there was blame on both sides for the state of our relationship, we both could have tried a lot harder to talk and make things better but we didn't and it was just descending into anger and bitterness all the time, partly caused by his walking out to go to the pub at every opportunity. And I turned a blind eye to the drinking and told myself it was not that bad and pretty much normal. Bizarre though it sounds, I'm not sure how much longer we could have gone on like that and in some ways I'm almost glad this has happened to bring things to a head. Glad is the wrong word. I would never have chosen this, it is horrible. But in some ways I wonder if this hasn't lanced the boil so to speak? Instead of letting things drift and fester. Which we were both doing, not just me. And I think if this hadn't happened we would have ended up splitting up, because I couldn't take much more. But now it's in some ways much worse obviously, but in others much better. Counselling will help more as well I hope, especially with the letting go parts. Obviously I wish we had never got to this point, but we did and now we have to live with it. one of the worst things he said was that he hadn't thought I would care much anyway, since I seemed so angry and disinterested in him. And the worst part? Even as I was going through his phone, I was thinking the same. "Do I even care anymore?" And then BAM! there it was, and like a slap in the face I realised I did care very much and was incredibly hurt. And I think he had the same sort of wake up call, when he saw a) how hurt I was and b) that I was probably going to leave him. But we are working things out now, and in the end I think it will be OK. A long time to go though. And it is the stupidest things that upset me as well- like the fact she was 10 years older than me. So is he, maybe that was her attraction (one of my more tactless friends did say "I never thought he'd stray, what with having the younger wife etc."). Saying that would a 20 year old dolly bird have been any better?
I like the idea of treating errant spouses like naughty children. Someone suggested on another thread, training them like dogs. Smacking him with a rolled up newspaper and sending him to bed without any supper is quite attractive actually. Sticking wth the dog analogy though I think I have probably been rubbing his nose in it a bit too much, and need to stop. This is helping so much though. He works away most of the week, and although he calls every night, quite often I just get tearful and it turns into a row, because I have been bottling things up all day. (I have some good friends but I don't feel I can keep calling them every time I have a wobble). But with being able to talk and vent on here, when he calls I can be the rational pleasant me, even if most of my conversation at the moment revolves around bodily functions(trying to potty train- son, not husband). I think he would rather talk about poo than be screamed and sobbed at. So thanks again everybody.
AG- so glad to here I am not the only one with the spread sheets of doom!! Had to delete it in the end because I just kept looking at it and upsetting myself. Which was annoying, as I'm not very good at spreadsheets and it was one of my finest efforts!!!

[georgie]

The dog analogy is interesting, of course if a dog keeps 'roaming' - castration is the accepted cure!
It is incredible how the same conversations are playing out in homes around the world. My H kept saying he was amazed I reacted the way I did i.e. devastated. I was suitably outraged by that statement, but I can so see where he was coming from too. Our lives had been through an extended period of stresses and endless moaning from him and seething resentment at having to listen to the endless moaning from me - so yes I can see where he may have gotten the impression that I didnt' give a damn. Then life started to improve and I started to wake up (to myself mainly) and shock horror the lay of the land around me had changed, he was not open honest h any more he was a cagey sneak.
It's not having sex with someone else that I have an issue with (soz Raymond), I can see how that could happen, it's not 'right' but it is understandable and I could recover from it if we moved forward with a new set of circumstances.
There are two things that I struggled with - being looked in the eye and lied to repeatedly (and beng made to feel a b%tch for questioning him in the first place) and being subsequently shut out emotionally (ironically I did that to him last year too). They were the things that sent me over the edge - hearing yes I've been sleeping with so and so and having that progress in to an open dialogue with me - I really think would have been a very treatable wound. Lieing - that's a little more of a chronic injury, I'm not sure if I could live with the fear of that flaring up again.
Your H seems to have come clean, and remained open to you - I obviously cant know how you're feeling, but I think in my situation I could have really worked with that.
It has been a hellish time, and I'm far from out of the world, but I'm also glad (yes actually glad) that it happened. I'm probably repeating myself yet again but I was living so unconciously, never scratching the surface of myself or of life. Now with the help of counselling, this site, much more open communication with friends I'm starting to feel like I'm working towards peace with myself. I'm letting go of a lot of the inner anger and hurt that were festering deep down in me, hang overs from childhood, and reactions to the way I allowed people to treat me. Without this awful shock this would not have happened. It's been hard, for my kids very hard, but I think they may end up with two better parents - even if I'm both of them! That was a joke, I think H will at some point manage to extract his HEAD from HIS A@US - I do believe he will. I'm moving on, I'm not sure if our paths will converge again, as of today I'd say I'm neither for or against the idea - I'll just see how life develops. I think I've grown up more in the past 60+ days then in the last 43 years! and of course for the benefit of the offical records I'm only 27.
Sorry, 32hh I came on here to offer you some support and went on a me myself I rant. In summing up for the jury - you'll know what to do when the time comes...(best I could come up with having exhausted myself on me)

[RayCub]

In summing up for the jury - you'll know what to do when the time comes...(best I could come up with having exhausted myself on me)

I think, of everything you said, Georgie, this DOES sum it up completely. After all the sh*t hits the fan, and you find yourself finally coming to terms with what happened and your head stops spinning, you DO somehow just instinctively know what to do. And you do it. You might not WANT to, you might find it hard, you might be scared, but you do it anyway, because if you don't? You might as well curl up in a corner and die.

[georgie]

Just a word of caution re: that advice. Do take a few deep breaths and count to 10- just to be sure you are acting on a rational judgment that you have arrived at rather then just lashing out in an emotional knee jerk - that's my recent area of expertise.

[RayCub]

Very true too....

[clockwork orange]

Hi 32

Sorry to hear about what you are going through. I wanted to share some thoughts on forgiveness that you might find useful. Just ignore me if not though.

Forgiveness is NOT : - Condoning
- Like trying to forget
- Trying to be nice
- Letting people off the hook
- Magic

Forgiveness IS : - Renouncing the right to resentment and revenge
- Cancelling a debt
- Pardoning the offender
- A choice

I think Raymond said something in an earlier post about forgiveness being beneficial to the forgiver as much as if not more than the transgressor. My experience has proved this to be true. It is also true that forgiveness does not necessarily lead to reconciliation. For reconciliation to happen there needs to be true repentance on the part of the transgressor.

Hope that is of some use to you.

[Ageing Grace]

Yes, Clockwork! Sometimes I wish we used the words "pardon" or "cancel" more often. Forgiveness has woolly, ethereal connotations that don't bear much resemblance to the real thing.

[Raymond]

I would say you are suffering from the broken trust 32 and the repentance is not there that I thought might have been there earlier on. You feel you are being fobbed off with gifts etc. to keep you placid and the house and family intact but deep down your trust has been shattered.

The trust takes ages to rebuild but it won't happen without his repentance. He has to take steps to rebuild that trust as he is the one that broke it. If that is not there it doesn't appear that he is sorry (just sorry he got caught?) I really hope he realises what he has done and tries to make amends in regaining the trust that he has broken. Adultery is always a very serious thing. The suffering one sees on here is testimony to that.

Raymond

[32hh]

Well I spent all last night giving everybody else flawed advice because I was too upset to post on my own thread! What a rubbish day.
H had asked me to take his mum out to lunch, because she was depressed about his brother moving back to the US.(I know he should have done it, but she rang on Monday night moaning about how she has no friends and we don't care about her and she never gets out and he had to go back to work on Tuesday. I don't blame him for avoiding her, I would too!) She can be quite a difficult woman- she goes for monthes being perfectly nice and pleasant, then something sets her off and she turns into a total bitch. She has no idea about what has being going on with me and her precious son by the way. So she was miserable about my brother in law not being home for Easter and basically took it all out me:
Starters- didn't like the restaurant (because I picked it not her), too expensive, portions too large, too far off the main streets. (she wasn't paying, she scoffed the lot and it was a block away)!
Then, have got warmed up it was my turn:
-I have lost too much weight, it does not suit me and also my "yo-yo dieting" is setting a terrible example to my daughter who will almost certainly now grow up to be anorexic.

-My clothes- why am I dressing differently, I might have lost weight but do I realise I'm not 18 again? I should dress my age. (I'm 32. And I'm now dressing like I'm 32, not 102, like I was when I was letting my H dictate what I wore. ) But apparently I am now mutton dressed as lamb and making a fool of myself and my husband. And her somehow?

-I am not looking after her son. I am always out, I am spending too much at the gym, with my friends, her son has needs and I am not in her opinion meeting them. Her son (he's always referred to as"my son", my relationship with him is not acknowledged) has done everything for me, and I should be grateful and clearly I am not.

-And then I just got all the usual stuff about how I ruined her family when I married her son, i am a bad mother and not bringing up the children properly, because they are not having french lessons (she's obsessed by french, she wants my daughter to go to a french speaking boarding school in London for some reason- probably to get away from her yo yo dieting mother!)

It's so hard sitting there listening to all of this when a lot of the time I already feel like cr*p and she has no idea what I'm going through and she's just sitting there telling me how useless I am, when I am trying so hard to be strong and feel good about myself and get my life back, and someone's just pushing my head under the water again everytime I feel like I'm coming up for air. She thinks the sun shines out of H's ar*e and that I was lucky to get such a catch and doesn't hesitate to say so. I don't think it's even particularly personal- she's always been vile to my b-in-l's girlfriends as well. I know I should just tell her what her darling boy has been up to, but I can't face it, I know she'd just make out it was all my fault, and she'd be doubly delighted because she has always had a problem with me being English as she calls me (I'm not even English, I'm from Kenya) and she would be thrilled to hear he had cheated on me with a nice Irish girl. She probably start pushing him to leave me and take up with his sl*g again. (It's over with her as far as I know, I'm as sure as it's possible to be).
Grrrrrr. Last night I was just miserable and feeling like crap about it, today I'm just angry! I told H about when he called and he agrees that yes she's difficult, and no she shouldn't say things like that, but he never speaks to her about her behaviour. I suppose it's difficult because she never does it in front of him, so if he did say anything she would just deny it and it would turn into "she said, no she said" etc. I have to say the one time she did do it in front of him, he did stick up for me and tell her to behave herself.
I just don't need this. This is hard enough without this mad old woman making me feel like pants. And even though I know she's mean and mad only trying to hurt me because she's missing her other son, it's hard to shake off things like that when you're already wondering what's so wrong with you that your H had to find someone else?

[georgie]

There is nothing wrong with you!
She's a mad old b#tch. They made a few bad batches - my mother rolled off the production line some time in the 40's and if she had been at the next table, she may have chimed in that you probably force feed the children vodka, steal money from your mother in laws purse, and are slowly posioning her son... that's without even being introduced - once she got to know you she'd really have a go at you. She's toxic - avoid avoid avoid.
He knows exactly what she's like.
French - is she a little on the pretentious side peut etre? (you thought my english spelling was bad heh?) - I'm picturing her as Hyacynth Bucket from that old show 'keeping up appearances'.
In short - who gives a sh@t what she says and/or thinks - what was that she said to your H "i have no friends'.. well goooooooooooo figure, uber b%tches are normally so popular.

Is there a control issue in the family, you have to dress to a certain code?

You H did the dirty and your mother in law acted like a cow - why are you feeling bad about it?? It was nothing that you did, its all about their shortcomings not yours.

[32hh]

OMG Georgie- she is Hyacinth Bucket! How did I never see that? She even goes on about her Royal Doulton china!!!
I know she's a b*tch, normally I can laugh it off. I've been avoiding her since things happened because I couldn't cope with her, and I think part of yesterday was punishment for that. It makes me cross because I do so much for her and she occasionally babysits if she's not too busy...! Anyway, maybe I am slowly poisoning her son.....
The rational me knows everything you said already. The sad, hurt not thinking straight me lets her get to me and wonders if she's right. So it's so good to hear that from you that it's her not me. Thanks for your advice the other day as well, I was too preoccupied obsessing about the m-in-l to reply, but it was good advice and thank you. I hope we can heal this, but like you this shock has helped me see things much more clearly- like dressing to please him etc. In truth he has never said "wear this or that" but he has always implied he would like me to dress more conservatively. And as he withdrew more and we talked less, I found myself starting to do things like that to try to please him instead. And since it clearly didn't work, I will now wear what I like. He has been OK about it, it's his mother who has the problem. I think actually she has far more control issues than him. If I was being charitible I might even say that she is the root of his. Sorry to hear you have mother issues too- maybe it was that 1940's batch- I don't even talk to my own mother anymore for a huge range of reasons to complex to go into. Feel much better for getting it all off my chest though. Now have to go shepard hoards of kids round a supermarket. Must keep my mouth shut and stop saying" of course I'll look after your kids!"

[RayCub]

Sounds like your rotten worm-infested apple of an H doesn't fall far from the shrunken-up old withered poisonous tree he fell from! You need to AVOID these people like the plague they are!!!

I so feel for people who can't turn to their moms in times of crisis. I wish I could share my mother with all of you - she has been my rock, and would take the lot of you under her wing as well, if she had the room!


God, I'm so f'ing angry at that WOMAN!!! What a bitter old bi*ch!!! The thought of her calling you down like that after what you're putting up with from her son...the irony of it just slays me!

You stand tall!! You are a wonderful, understanding, forgiving, patient woman who deserves only amazingly great things to happen to her from here on out!!! I'm wishing them for you right now!!

And the goddesses & stars & universe & whoever the hell else runs this place better start listening...they owe us BIG TIME!

Positve vibes on super speed coming your way!!!!!!
And hugs too! Never enough hugs in this world!!

RC

[yogamad]

She sounds like the mother in law from hell, how could she sit there and tell you all that when you'd taken her out for a meal, I can't believe it. I wouldn't go again if I were you, she sounds like a horrible woman, as if you haven't got enough on your plate already.

Don't forget to tell us what's going on in your own life, it's lovely that you're helping so many others but don't forget about you.

[32hh]

Thanks everyone so much. Still feeling so low today. Had such a good week then today and yesterday so crap. I know I shouldn't let her get to me, and it's not her I'm fretting about anymore, I still just feel cr*p. I was trying to get 4 kids round the supermarket today, and feeling angry with myself for letting people dump their kids on me again, (because I don't work, people seem to regard me as emergency childcare. To be fair, they take my kids quite a lot too, but I never like to ask them to, I wait till they offer, whereas when they ring up and say "help" and I never like to say no, in case the one time I do need to ask they don't help. I know it's my own fault, but it still p*sses me off). Then I just started feeling really angry with H, about all the times it was me struggling with the kids while he went about his own life. All the birthday parties (yes really) I had to deal with on my own, all the sleepovers, tennis lessons, days out and everything else I've always had to do by myself because he wasn't interested and just wanted to go about his own life. Do you know he has never once taken the kids swimming? And if I did ever manage to drag him along, he just sulked and spoiled the day for everyone so I stopped asking him. One of my daughters birthday parties, he did come to, I was 7 months pregnant with my son, he appeared, after I had set up, said "well you seem to have it all under control, I'll just nip out for a bit" and decamped to the pub across the road, leaving me to cope with it all by myself! And it makes me angry with me as well for putting up with it. We all went out together on Monday to a steam train and it was nice, but weird, because that was the first time we have ever gone on a day out together since my son was born -2 1/2 years ago!!! And it just p*sses me off so much, that we are supposedly this family, and all the time all he cared about was his own life, not us and I LET HIM GET AWAY WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Culminating of course in HER, which is just another example of his supreme selfishness!! Why did I marry such a selfish pr*ck? I don't think he was always like this, but why didn't I see sooner how bad it was? It's like Georgie said of not really even being aware of what's happening and how bad it is until you get a massive wake up call and "Holy sh*t, my life is totally PANTS".
So I fumed my way round the supermarket, and dropped the other 2 kids and came home and was putting the shopping away, and another friend turned up with her 2 kids for a sleepover because she's having a b'day sleepoever for an older one and that I had totally forgotten about! So I had pretend of course I had remembered, and was thinking "B*gger" because this is the sort of thing H gets really annoyed with me about- both the scattiness and he would complain about the house being full of other people's children. in the past he would complain and say he might as well go out, as he couldn't spend time with his daughter because the house was full of OPC, so the next weekend I wouldn't make any arrangements, but he would go out anyway, and I'd be left with my daughter nagging me for friends over or to go to theirs, and what could I say? "You're supposed to spending time with Daddy?" But Daddy's in the pub.
But after that great rant and feeling so mad at him, he came home, was completely unfazed by the extra kids and suggested he took them to the park for an hour to give me a break. That's where they are now. So maybe he's not so bad and has changed? Because the old him would never have done that. I've known him pull into the driveway, see all the kids and turn around and go out again without even saying hello. But he's not always been bad, he used to be nice, and now he seems nice again. I'm just so scared that the horrible him will come back. In which case I can't stay any longer and have put myself through this for nothing.
On a more positive note (well not really) I did have a small revenge. He's mad about his garden, especially the lawn. He spent most of last weekend reseeding and fertelizing it and it was supposed to rain this week and wash it into the ground. But it didn't. So he asked me to water it instead, and I said I did, but I didn't so all his work was for nothing. Ha. Petty, I know, but satisfying. Also I took the secateurs and have filled the house with flowers, which always annoyed him too. But he just remarked how nice they looked. Damn!

[32hh]

One more thing that maybe he has changed. He rang late last night after he'd been out with clients, and asked if I'd been on the phone because he'd had trouble getting through. I hadn't, and he said oh right, no it didn't actually sound like a normal busy tone, there's maybe something wrong with my phone. And that was it. In the past that would have sparked a huge row, because for reasons I have never been able to work out he has always had problems trusting me. I've never given him any reason for this, but he's always hated me talking to other men even at parties etc when he's there. There's a couple of friends husbands he likes that he didn't mind me talking to, and my friend Tim from University, but even TIm I think he has problems with, but knows I wouldn't give up. Apart from them he would get so jealous if I even mentioned I had seen so and so in the Co-op and more than once he had accused me of having an affair based on the flimsiest of pretexts- once a neighbour had left the pub an hour before him and was only just getting back home when H was, so clearly I was having it off with him (It actually turned out the neighbour was having an affair with someone else and that was where he had been!). Another time he said he could smell a man's shower gel in the bathroom. I was really mad that time and walked out, telling him to smell all the bottles in the bathroom until he got the one he could smell. He texted a few minutes later to say it was my new shower gel (it was a bit rank!). But the constant suspicion leaves you in the end feeling guilty even if you have done nothing wrong. I stopped ever talking to men because he would be upset. He was always really jealous but it started to get really bad about 5 years ago when I had lunch with an old friend, who was also an old boyfriend. I know that sounds bad but let me explain: A & I met in Freshers Week in our first term at university. We had a brief thing, that had fizzled out by the end of the first term but we became incredibly good friends and ended up sharing a flat for the next three years. In our final year I met the H and A met his future wife. H hated A, and was jealous of our friendship, and A's girlfriend didn't like me for the same reason. When H asked if A had ever more than a friend I stupidly said no, for the simple reason, it had been so brief , inconsequential and long ago, I had pretty much forgotten about it. I never thought of him as an ex, just my friend. I genuinely didn't mean to lie, as far as I was concerned anything that had happened was so far in the past and meaningless as to not exist. but someone else told him there had been more, and so that was a huge deal that I'd lied etc and so on... Anyway, after university A and I lost touch, becuase H didn't like him and Mrs A didn't like me ( and I think had issues with ex girlfriend things too-she was a bitch anyway!) So for 5 years we had no contact, then about 5 years ago A rang out of the blue. he was getting divorced, about to go off travelling, but before he went, trying to catch up with old friends he had lost touch with, would I like to have lunch? I was really happy to hear from him and told H about the call, and suggested he came along to lunch too, thinking after all this time the animosity would have dissipated. He said no, he'd stay home and babysit, but togo and have a good time. So I did. And when I came home it was to jealous rantings that he'd always known A would come back for me and he knew A was in love me and trying to get me back and blah blah blah. you get the picture. It was after that the jealousy got really bad, but I didn't see I'd done anything so terrible. I'd been completely honest and open, and frankly, if I'd known it would upset him that much i probably wouldn't even have gone to lunch! Anyway A's been in Thailand for the last few years and I've never seen him again. He sends the odd e-mail, which H could see if wanted because he had the password to my account until recently (when I changed it in a fit of rage). But he would still bring up in his jealous rants that "HE wasn't the one sneaking off to meet exes, and HE wasn't the one still in touch with them etc" And it wouldn't take much to set this off and last night I was braced for the usual jealousy thing because he thought the phone was engaged late at night but he jsut let it go. So maybe it is a sign of change? Then again, maybe he jsut doesn't have a leg to stand on in that department any more. Anyway, I feel calmer and less angry for my long rants, feel like I've cleared my head and made sense of some stuff to myself. Better go, they'll be backfrom the park soon!!

[yogamad]

Wow, they were long rants 32 but I bet it feels good to get all that off your chest.


I know what you mean about looking after loads of kids, I used to be like that when my kids were small. Now they're older it's so much easier. Oldest has been to Bristol for the day with a load of mates, youngest has had a mate round but they've been hanging out together and I haven't heard anything from them all day. I've practically been made redundant in that department, I have more time to myself which is great but I remember those days well, it's not easy. I used to feel like screaming sometimes, the kids used to go home and I was left with all the mess to clear up.

Your H does sound rather selfish leaving you to do the swimming, parties and stuff, I think maybe a lot of dads are like that and it gets left to us mums. I was so good at organising everything, my H said he used to feel like a spare part and didn't ever no what to do, maybe your H felt like that?

I totally understand about the jealousy thing, my H is exactly the same, not so much now really but in the past it was awful. He's even said he'd like a DNA test to see if the boys are his just because I had slept with a few people before we met.

From what you've said your H does sound calmer than he used to be about having kids round the house so that's good. I think after a day at work, they don't like to come home to a houseful of other people's kids.

Sorry to hear that your feeling low, you always sound so strong and are there for other people, make sure you look after yourself, you deserve it.

[georgie]

The similarities are strange. My H is the same re: parties,activities etc. My oldest 5th birthday party was a trial for me - I had a 5 mth old baby in arms and when I said to H are you coming his response was "nah, it'll be full of kids" - well duuhhh... so I struggled along like a good lold martyr.
I'm also always having kids around and used to get flack for it, but kids dont get to play out on the streets any more so it's the only way they can play with their friends. Well he doesn't have to worry about it anymore.

[32hh]

So still so bad. Yesterday was such a good day and Friday too- H has asked me to dogsit one of his employees dogs for a week, which I know sounds like me being walked over and taken advantage of again, but actually is a good thing and a step forward I thought. Because I love animals and H hates them and has always been totally against getting a pet. So to dog sit and have a dog in the house for a week is huge change for him (it is too little to go into kennels and he is sending it's "daddy" away for a week). First step i thought to my own dog (cynical part of me wonders if he hoped I would find it too much hassle and go off the idea!!). The everything was nice till earlier when i was looking at hotels for a university reunion next month. It just made me so sad for a number of reasons. I started off quite gung ho, thinking I'm going to book somewhere really nice, because normally I would go for a cheap B&B as "good enough" but H never stints himself so I thougt why should I? So i was looking at hotels and I just got so upset, because of course all last winter he was telling me he was off to various reunions in Ireland, booking lovely hotels and then seeing her at the same time. When I told him I was booking a hotel for this night, he asked "will there be men there?" to which I responded it was a) none of his business and b) he really didn't have a leg to stand on. (There are a couple of blokes but not like that and I'm not going in the hope of copping off in a tit for tat episode anyway- I just want to see my friends). But really, under the curcumstances how bloody bloody dare he? So then we just got into the old routine of
-"WHy did you do this to me?
-"Just for sex"
-"Why all the calls and texts, why did you need to talk to her so much if it was just SEX?"
-"Oh I don't know, I really couldn't say"
So finally I yelled I hated this, what he has done to me and him, and if he can't geive me answers and keeps fobbing me off with "I don't knows and I can't says" then I don't want to know. So I am in here with you guys and he is still watching his f*cking reruns of "Grand Bloody Designs" like nothing has happened. So it seems his promises of "I'll do what it takes and be there as long as it takes" translate as "YEah whatever, bored now, watching telly stop moaning" B*stard. So I'm going to go and book a suite at the Balmoral which is the most expensive hotel I can think of. (Not really, I'd love to, but even if we could afford it I think I would baulk at the price.) I'll probably just stay on here and post another 15 long rants, interspersed with telling you all what you should be doing, because I REALLY know what I'm talking about don't I?
Oh god why is it so hard? And so crap? Why can't he understand I need to know these things and ACTUALLY, if he'd just say "yes, for a short time I was infatuated and talking to her made me happy" it would hurt like hell, but at least I'd know he was telling me the truth and then I could deal with it and move on instead of these continuous lies about "Don't know, she meant nothing etc" He's coming through, going before he sees and starts snooping on here.

[JWD]

I stayed there for my hen night wahhhhhhh lol. You're doing great. x

[32hh]

Booked the Sheraton in case you jinxed the Balmoral JWD!!! Actually booked the Sheraton because once because behaved disgracefully in the Balmoral and my conscience won't let me return. Still, I was Y, F &S (Young free and single for those who have forgotten what that was like) and he was German and dull. I had no choice but to flee. part of me wonders though if I had been more considerate in my youth it wouldn't be biting on the bottom now? I have 2 rants before I go to bed and I am going to post them separately other wise I think I might break the website such ismy degree of angst....
First I am still SOOOOOOOOOOOangry at him. How could he do this to me and then turn around and tell me he loves me? You don't rip the heart out of the person you love, throw it down in front of them, jump up and down a few times and then "Whoops, sorry. You didn't like that? My bad." He admitted after my first post that yes, he did prefer to talk to her, she wa a happier prospect than the screaming hateful miserable harridan that was his wife. And no wonder. It's so unfair, she gets to be the perfect fantasy woman who is always up for nooky, never farts, CERTAINLY never is bogged dwon by trivia like the laundry or school runs or cooking, and who when he calls is fascinating, scintillatin, tittillating and leaves him salivating. Unlike me, who he leaves wallowing in dirty pants and who when he calls and says "what did you do today" replies "Same sh*t different day, literally, mopped up cr*p from dawn to dusk. Who could blame him> Well I could for a start> He signed up for this, he was the one who wanted both these kids, I love them now they're here but I was never sure I was a kid person. So he wanted them, and we had them and npow they're here I adore them and I do my best to be the best bloody mother I can even though I am not that person who is the natural earth mother type, I bake cookies and I fill my house with OPC and I do everything Ican to do this as well as possible. But my god I blame his WH*RE as well. I know there's a lot on here about " the only people responsible for a marriage are the ones in it and the other woman has no responsibility to it". I'm sorry, I think that's absolute cr*p. My marriage was in trouble, but she pushed it over the edge. And frankly, from the viewpoint of my own morality, a woman who sleeps with a married man, knowing full well he is married, with YOUNG children, is nothing but a cheap sl*g. She knows what she is doing as well as he does, she knows the fall out if discovered will devasting for those children but she goes ahead and does it. She is just as must to blame as him. And then to allow the affair to continue, to keep seeing and calling and encouraging...I'm sorry but cheap tarts like that should share equal responsibility with the cheating b*stard you married. I really puzzle WHY a woman would do that, whether low esteem or trying to revenge herself on other woman because they hd what she wanted (H's wh*re was barren) either way they are the lowest of the low. I have never been short of opportunites to behave like H, and I have always turned them down. Since I found out there have been opportunites I would never have picked up on here because I wasn't allowed to talk to blokes before, but I still wouldn't because THEY ARE ALL MARRIED TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I said, only the cheapest of slags would go with someone else's man because they couldn't get their own and I don't see why they shouldn't be held culpable. THe law thinks they are.

[32hh]

OKAAAAAAAAAAAY rant number 2.
I am so angry at MYSELF! How did I get suckered into this? Well i know how I got suckered in, I wa so desperate for someone to love me and H convinced me he was the one.
It seems a recurring theme the screwed up lives on here, so I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm just writing it all down becuae since I started this things have started to make so much sense, just clarifying thing in my own head. but because there's a chance someone else might read it you have to make some sort of sense: So this might be the longest yet-
-How I got mixed up with H and fell for him and am finding it hard to leave even though everyone thinks I should:
So, shock horror it starts with my parents. Mainly my mother. I admit from the first that my mother has had a hard time too. She lost her parents when she was young and was brought up by her grandmother. Then when I was 5 and my sister was 3, my sister died from leukimia. My other sister was born shortly before my first sisters death. So, those are the mitigating circumstaces for my mother.
BUT, I was young so memories are hazy, my one of my strogest is being told over and over that I was "a horrible child and it would have been much better if I had died not my sister".
My mother managed the wondrous feat of being the coldest and most emotionally distant person I ever met and yet the most controlling. And lets not forget manipulative- NO ONE does emotional blackmail like my mother.
So we lived in Kenya, i'd never lived anywhere except East Africa, and when I was 12 I was put on a plane to the UK and sent to boarding school. I had begged and pleaded against it but to no avail and the thing that still rankles 20 years later, is they sent me on my own, no one even came with me. So the next 6 years were spent there where to be fair I made some good friends, but easter and christmas were spent with my elderly grandparents as "flights were too expensive" but summer holidays I was allowed to go home. Only it wasn't home any more, I had no bedroom, I was relegated to the guest bedroom where normally only the cat's slept, because my sister "needed" my bedroom for her "art". I was basically a very un welcome guest. Then I when I was 17, my parents made the decision which cut me to the quick, even more than their previous actions. It was decided that my precious youn ger sister, who neither of them had ever even tried to pretend was not their favourite and the apple of their eye and perfect in everyu way unlike me, couldn't possibly cop with the rigours of boarding school, so they packed up their whole lives and moved back to the UK for the sake of her education. (Fat of good it did, she is 27 now, and doing her 3rd degree -all financed by my father + new car every 2 years- she'snever going to be employable). I was shattered by that, and how little I meant to them, and made a conscious decision that I would never depend on anyone else for my happiness again, and would no longer be defined by who loved me. I had spent 17 years trying to be someone my parents would love with no sucess. I decided it would be just me and I would be fine. Then I met H. And he literally spent months on his knees, begging me to let him in, PROMISING he would never hurt me or let me down and eventually I did. And not only has he hurt me and let me down, he has also let me fall into the same patterns I did with my parents, of thinking "OK you don't love me the way I am, but I can BE a person you love" and changing for that. Even more bizarrly I haven't meantioned my dad here much, but his main trait was just to throw money at the problem. Which I have mentioned before about H as well. Anyway taht's a very brief (yeah right () recap of why Iam so angry and bitter about H and unable to get overit. He knew how hurt,let down and unloved I been in my life, and he knew how hard ir was for to let him in. And he swore to me that he would never hurt me or betray me. And then he did. And my heart is broken and I don't know how to move forward.

[Ageing Grace]

Heartbreaking. You poor little girl, you deserved better than that - much better.

Your anger is justified.

You've joined up several defining factors about you and how you love. I think you will know how to move forward ...

Hugs,
AG x

[JWD]

I don't think you give yourself enough credit. Already from your first post you have been rational and seem like your are taking an approach of dealing with it and trying to understand why it has happened.

It's a Sh*tty thing to happen, no doubt about it. You trusted your husband and he has let you down, just like your parents but you're a survivor. I also believed my Husband when he said stuff like he could never hurt me and thought adultery was disgusting blah blah blah. I think more than anything, i'm just so disappointed in him.. he seems to be just another human being, like the rest of us and not the the amazing person my head built him up to be.

don't know where I'm going with this, taking over your thread I think. ANyway, everything you are feeling is normal and you have every right to feel it. I agree re the other woman, more so because I just couldn't be involved with such deceit and also would never go for a man who would do that. I don't get the attraction of dating a liar and a sneak. Baffles me in fact. Why put yourself out there to someone who obviously is selfish, lies and has no morals. Maybe the other women are the real victims who go seeking this type of man.


re the balmoral, yeah, don't think I'd show my face again after having one too many in the wee cocktail lounge. I have a list as long as my arm of places I can't visit because they are tarred with memories of him LOL.

[32hh]

What a lot of long rants I have been having. But it is cathartic in a way, and I do feel better for it. Apologies to all those who read my pages of drivel, but thanks for reading or listening or however. Feeling much better this morning- on Dave123's thread JWD you said about feeling negative bringing negative things and being positive bringing positive things. Going to try that!
Liked too what you said about him only being human and not the amazing person I thought. How dare he be fallible!!!? Don't worry about taking over my thread, I'm always glad of other people's input.
Even though H and I are still together, there are places I don't want to go because we went there when we were happy and now we're not, or went to when he was seeing her and lying to me and a host of other reasons . SOngs too, that I can't listen to because they have too many memories or apply to the situation so much- Kate Nash's Foundations was playing on the radio when i was in the car on Saturday and I just started crying because it totally summed up how we used to be, when everything was crp and he was lying his head off. I think he is really trying and wants this to work and so do I, but it's so hard to believe him when he says he loves me and will never hurt me again, when he promised that before and did it anyway. but I am being negative again and am only going to be positive today. Especially since my boy used his potty for a poo! Revolting I know, but a major breakthrough and something else to be positive about!!!

[JWD]

well done potty poo.

You should nut the secret or go to thesecret.com. I've said this hundreds of times but the only good thing first counsellor said (husband lied to him so not his fault that he wasn't that great) he said whatever relationship you had before, it's gone now, it's past and this is a time for a new relationship to develop. So maybe you need to establish exactly what your new relationship with your husband will mean for you and what you want from it.

Crying is good, I used to hate crying but it releases negative energy. I think I built my husband into some kind of super human lol, I have lots of parental issues and I think I though he was saving me blah blah. Must be quite a pressure. Doesn't not excuse the lies and the mental cruelty though but that's fine because I managed to recognise it and stoped it so well done me.

My friends have started calling me ghandi with all this positive affirmation and forgiveness lark lol

[32hh]

I've read that about having to start new relationships, because the old one is gone. But I'm so angry at him for destroying it that I don't know what I want from the new one. Except I want it to be on more equal terms- he has always treated me a bit like a child, with him being 10 years older. He used to call me "kid" when we first met, until I told him he was being very patronising and to please not do that. THat of course was back when I had a personality and a spine.
He thinks our problems stem from his drinking- it was a vicious circle really. He'd go for a pint on a friday, and as he got more stressed by work, he drank more, only the more he drank the angrier I got and the more distant we became and so he drank more and I got angrier and on on. He keeps saying that he slept with her because he was angry at me about the lack of sex (though we were still sleeping together and I didn't think it was that bad) and also because I was always so angry at him. I think that's probably why he called her etc as well because she was much nicer to him than me. But then again, why wouldn't she be, he was much nicer to her than he was to me. That all sounds very plausible, but I am so wary of believing anything he says, he has lied so much. What does anyone else think? I really would value your opinions on whether his analysis of it sounds genuine and reasonable or whether i'M just being spun another line.
Also, i ranted at length last night about how I had changed to try and make him love me, but he never asked me to change. My solitary remaining male friend who also knows H said to me when I first found out about this that he didn't think H was a bad man, just a very very stupid one. I think maybe he's right, but then again I want to think that. Is it possible for someone to behave like this out of stupidity and thoughtlessness, rather than just to be cruel and hurtful. He keeps saying he never meant me to find out, he would never have done it if he had thought I would (I keep pointing out I kept asking him about it so he knew I suspected but he carried on anyway)> He admitted it was arrogant of him to have thought that. Interestingly arrogant is a word my friends keep using about him, as in they always thought he was very arrogant. He has used it about himself as well a few times, and also says he sees how very very selfish he has been. Good? Or not? Anyway, what I was going to say was I started to change as he became more distant to try and make him come back, he never said "you can't wear that etc" he always would sometimes say "not sure about that" but previously I would have gone "Tough, I like it". And maybe the way I started to change made things worse as well, because firstly it made me even more angry, and secondly I wasn't the person he first fell in love with anymore, so maybe that in itself pushed him further away, thus triggering another vicious circle? He actually seems happier now I am standing up for myself more, wearing what I want and going out more. Maybe because I am getting back to the real me instead of the timid stepford wife I was turning into. He keeps saying that even when he was seeing her, it was me he really wanted, he just didn't know how to fix things between us, that it was me he would rather have talked to, but we were just so far apart he didn't think I wanted him. Again, does that sound plausible? I want so badly to believe him, but I don't want to be hurt and lied to again. I would really apppreciate it if anyone let me know what they thought HONESTLY- don't spare my feelings and tell me what I want to know, tell me what you REALLY think.
Thanks
PS JWD- you are somewhere in Scotland but you seemed to get seen by a counsellor really fast. When I called last week I was told it could be 4-6 weeks to get an appointment- and that was paying £15 extra to be "fast tracked". That was the counselling service I found through the relationship- scotland site, just wondered if there was anywhere else to try that might be faster.

[RayCub]

Hey 32,

You know what? I have no idea WHY they cheat and I'm starting to wonder if they know themselves. I've just been propositioned by a friend of mine - a very nice, very fun, very attractive, very MARRIED friend, who has a wonderful wife whom he loves, or at least claims to. I know she's awesome, because she's my friend too. They don't have any kids, and I have to admit, I've wondered, in the past what drew them together because they seem to have very little in common.

That being said, I asked him if he was completely serious, and he is. He'd like to be my friend "with benefits" until I find my new Mr. Right. (How chivalrous!) I asked him why he'd want to risk everything, and he said he was willing to take the chance because "you are worth it"...great line, eh? He also told me he's never cheated before. The sad thing is that I believe him; I think this is the first time he's attempted to step out of line, unless he's this awkward every time he hits on another woman! I could be VERY wrong though: maybe that's just his method...

Anyway, my point is that I think we're all capable of falling into this trap. I'm not forgiving or making excuses or anything like that. Bottom line: cheating is wrong. But I don't think we'll ever know the reasons why people do it.

Just for the record...I turned him down...

[JWD]

I think mostly they are just plain selfish an have low self esteem. Get a bit of attention and instead of think to themselves, lets stop and assess why I want to respond before I destroy my family and my partners self esteem, they just think why not, I deserve this. Just liars.

[32hh]

Raycub,I assumed you would have from the first moment you mentioned it because you seem like a lovely and very decent person! What an absolute scumbag. Saying that, was it a bit of a boost for you to be propositioned by an attractive man? Or was it just too infuriating to be reminded how many absolute POOFACES there are out there! I seem to be reverting to playground language in order not to offend anyone. But sometimes insults like Bumface can be quite satisfying in a puerile sort of a way! And how even more Bumface-esque of him, when he's not just married but married to your friend. The one saving grace of H in all this was at least he had the decency not to poop on his own doorstep. We live in a really small village and I have seen more than one person having to see their H's mistress on a daily basis in the playground so at least he spared me that.
I suppose for all i am so sanctimonious about me not cheating despite oppotunities (one friends husband who propositioned me a few years back replied when I asked how he thought his wife would feel about it (in a rhetorical way, I wasn't thinking of taking him up on it) actually replied that "It's OK, she trusts me so she'll never suspect" All I could do not to punch him !) maybe H was in a worse place than me and if I had been in his situation I might have succumbed too. I'd like to think I wouldn't but I suppose one can never be sure. i think that's what you mean by we're all capable of falling in the trap?
I am still so indignant on your behalf about that man though!!!!

[JWD]

He is a predator, thinks you're some vulnerable woman and would be glad of any male attention even from a scumbag cheat like himself. tell him you will tell his wife next time or better tell him you will set his wife up with a more decent guy.

[32hh]

Well an amazing thing happened that has made me feel so muc better. Well amazing for me! I SLEPT all night for the first time in months. I've not been sleeping or eating properly really since I found out. H makes me eat a bit when he is here at the weekends but the rest of the week I mainly get by on strong tea and marlboro lights, with medicinal white wine thrown in for good value on the bad days. And the sleeping has if anything been getting worse. The more I try to wear myself out at the gym, the less I seem to sleep. I fall asleep but then a maximum of 2 hours later I'm awake again staring at the ceiling and torturing myself. So I've been staying up later to try and be even more tired and probably making things worse! But last night for whatever reason, I went to bed, fell asleep and was out like a light till the alarm went off this morning. I felt great, and even made myself breakfast instead of just feeding the kids (fed them too obviously). Evertthing seems so much clearer this morning- I have to either forgive him or leave him. I can't continue to live in this cloud of anger and resentment, it is not good for anyone lesast of me! So, I have to accept that he is human and flawed and as such has made a mistake (a fairly major one but anyway NO DWELLING) and move forward. I also have to accpet that like Ray said, I may never know all the exact WHYS and WHEREFORES, and accept that they perhaps matter less than his behaviour NOW. H keeps telling me he "can't change the past, only the future" and saying that's what he's trying to do. So now I have to let him do that. Maybe even more, I have to help him change the future!!!!
So hopefully everyone else is having a good day too!
I Know this feeling won't last forever and there will be more bad days ahead, but for now I feel clearer and better about things than I have so far!

[32hh]

And I suppose forgiving him means starting to believe him as well. Someone who had been through this said to me when I first found out that basically you have to make a concious choice to believe them, that there is no magical wand waved and hey presto, they're telling the truth. At the time it seemed so impossible to think that I could ever believe him under any circumstances let alone that I would CHOOSE too that I put it out of my head. But now I see what he meant. It is possible H will cheat on me again, the one thing I have learned from this is that there are no absolutes or guarentees in life, though I think and hope it unlikely that he would (he has certainly sworn he won't). But if he doesn't I can spend the next 20 years in suspicion and anger, and ruin them for myself. Or I can choose to believe him, get on with my life and if the worst happens, deal with it when it does, instead of constantly thinking "oh but what if".>That doesn't mean I trust him YET or have forgiven him but I feel like I'm on the path now and the light at the end of the tunnel might NOT be the express train (talk about mixing my metaphors!) We have a counselling appointment too, which should help the process- though I hope their counselling skills are better than their organisational ones- they forgot to ring me with the appointment! But we're going and that's all that matters!

[RayCub]

I really hope you guys are able to work through everything 32, and come out stronger on the other side...seems like that's a rare thing on this site. I'm envious to a certain extent.

As for the sleeping...whew...I'd seriously maim someone for a full night of decent sleep. I fall asleep well after midnight with the tv on (can't seem to handle the quiet yet), wake around 2 am to turn it off, but then I'm inevitably awake again around 5am, and that's it folks...I have a coworker who has been divorced for 11 years and still can't sleep through the night! She said it began when she found out he was cheating, and it's continued through to this day. If I were her, I'd sue him for mental anguish or something like that. Maybe she could sleep better with piles of money under her pillow!

[32hh]

I think we can. I hope we can. I've felt like this before and then crashed a few days later, but not with such clarity? I.e, I've felt randomly positive, because the sun was shining ( a rare event in this climate) or I'd lost another 5 lbs but this time I seem to just see things more clearly about how we can move forward. I know it will still be hard, but for the first time in a long time I imagine myself far in the future (20, 30 years) and he's a part of it. For well over a year now though I didn't know what would happen I've always seen myself alone in that future. I don't post these things to make you envious, I don't mean to rub it in. Most of what I post is mainly me writing stuff down to make sense of it- I donb't know why things become clearer when they are put in writing but they do.
I'm so sorry you're still not sleeping either, i do know what it's like. It's only been one night but BOY what a difference.I'm almost certain I have a lot more sleepless nights ahead. I've always been loath to turn to sleeping pills as they have not agreed with me in the past, but they must work for some people else the pharmaceutical business would not make the billions it does? But maybe you've already tried that too. Camomile tea has helped me in the past though not this time. Other than that don't know what to suggest, this came out the blue, I wasn't expecting it. The bizarrest thing is actually the last good nights sleep I had was the night I found out. I finally went to bed sure I was too upset to sleep and just CRASHED! I think my body and brain just shut down because I couldn;t take any more!!!
I hope you get some sleep.
And if your colleague DID had piles of money under her pillow, she could always get a toyboy to wear her out!! Not fair really is it?

[32hh]

And The King probably put it best "We can't go on together with suspicious minds"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBmAPYkPeYU
He was quite sweaty though wasn't he?

[jkk]

Hi 32

i went through a similar situation with my H. We have been getting on great recently and have a very close, loving, relationship. I know what you mean about trust issues, and it has been a concious decision to trust again (or go insane!!!!).

What i have found difficult, is the constant reminder - she lives very local, and i have to pass her house almost daily, or go miles out of my way. I have bumped into her several times at the local shops. I find it nerve wrecking.

Wish i could move.

At least i am sleeping much better. Hope you have another good nights rest, it certainly does help clarify your thoughts.

JKK

[RayCub]

Well, last night I slept....really, actually slept........and then had a dream about getting back together with my H. WTF??? If that's what I get when I slip into peaceful slumber, I'll take the insomnia any day...

[32hh]

Is it just me that doesn't want Viagra?

Anyhoo. So good then so bad. How does this happen? Firstly, glad you slept Ray, but sorry your subconcious chose to torture you. Though by your other thread, it wasn't so much about getting back together, as what being together would be like. So maybe your Subconcious was not torturing you, but strengthing your resolve. I shall post what I think about the Scumbag Previously Known As Your H on your thread!!!!!!! Bumface doesn't come close.

Anyway, backto ME!. It's all pants again. Last night he came home and turned into rows, usual "how why what and wherfore" then he got really cross when I started attacking her, saying that she must just be a desperate old sl*g to go with someone else's man, and how good did that make him feel, to think she only slept with him because she was so desperate and couldn't get a man of her own? Didn't go down well. So spent most of today out spending his money and at the gym, put kids to bed, had dinner, watched a film, then he made a comment about how short I am (5"7 well above AVERAGE BUT HE STILL CALLS ME STUMPY) and I made a joking comment about wasn't it ironic if he finds ME stumpy, he ended up sh*gging a dwarf/? (apparently she was considerably shorter than me). So he declared me drunk (1/2 a glass of wine nursed from 7.30 till 11.30) and how I couldn't be spoken to or reasoned with when i was like this and stormed off. Like he used to. Then came through to see if I was coming to bed, to which I replied, "NO, I thought I'd stay up for another 2, maybe 3 hours watching totally pointless TV because I don't want to come to bed with you. Just like you used to" So he stormed off. But he would, all the time, stay up till 3 or 4 am watching MTV and other crap just to avoid me. I'd wake up and come through in the small hours and say are you coming to bed and he'd say " Nah, not tired yet". But to even mention her or past wrong doings is not acceptable. So angry he would not agree last night that she was jsut a desperate sl*g. He had to defend her and say " she wasn't like that, IT wasn;t like that"> SOrry, a woman screws someone elses husband because she is desperate and can't get her own man. Alternatively she has some sort of mental issues. Either, normal happy sane and stable women do not feel the need to go out there and destroy other people's marriages to make themselves feel better. But he must have had feelings for her if he didn't like her described that way. And now he has had enough of my anger and hurt it's only a matter of time till he declares it over, because I can't get over it. But from my point of view.OK the affair was relatively short lived but I had a good 4 years of absolute cr*p from him first. And now after less than 3 months of him according to him"trying his hardest" and to me and everyone " acting like a decent father and husband for the first time" I'm supposed to forget all the sh*t that went before
And frankly he's only behaving as you would expect a married father of 2 to behave, he's hardly winning any medals for sacrifice. But he seems to think he should. Should I just leave him? Should I wait for him to leave me? Should I hope it gets better? The way things are tonight, I think I would rather it was over, a clean break( or as clean as you can with kids though I ahve little hope for his "DAd of the Year Prize" if we split- he'll be off with Popsy number #? before you can say " Safe Sex" and that'll ne us). He'sl ost all interest in fixing it as I knew he would if I couldn't be fixed straight away. In a way, I would look forward to it being over and jsut taking the pain and moving on. Now, I feel like that man who got trapped in a ravine and cut his own arm off with a penknife. A chainsaw would give the same result but quicker. Jesus. What am I going to do ? That's a rhetorical question, though if anyone has any answers please feel free.!

[jkk]

Hi 32,

you seem to be going along a similar pattern to me, but i am about 4 months ahead of you.
There are certain stages to how affairs progress and continue. Similarly there are stages to how affairs end. These affect both you, your husband and the o/w.

Have a good read about the psycholgical steps your husband has been through/going through, to understand the impact of ending an affair has had on him. It isn't pleasant reading for you, but it will give you a deeper understanding of the processes involved. For example, anxiety and depression, grieving for the o/w, severing the commitment from her and becoming committed to you.

Read about how the stages has affect you, and future prospects. You might want to read up about the stages of the third person.

It is common for Hs to defend the "honour" (ha, ha!), of the O/W, (rose tinted glasses), my H said he felt guilty because she had "supported him" through lifes turmoils, eg, when the dog died, and his friend. But i pointed out i had been with him - vets, hospitals, funeral, not her, she had just dropped her knickers! he couldn't disagree! He defended her part in the affair right up until he actually became "committed" to our relationship, and could see a future in us being together.

The book "After the affair", is a good read, and there are lots of articles about the stages of affairs, and the effects it has on those concerned, on the internet.

Got to go now, take care,

JKK

PS. H now has put her in the group of people " an old tart - desparate for a shag". Hmmmmmmmmm

[JWD]

survivinginfidelity.com is also a very good site which adulterous partners post on too. I can#t visit it anymore as it was keeping me in the cycle and I need to move on but it's very very good. And anything goes, you can say whatever you like in certain parts of the forum.

Lots of links and stuff to help understand both partners.


I still have him saying "it wasn't like that" swarming around my head. don't know what that means.


I think it must be much harder to try and work on it, at least I can walk away but you have your children and your husband who wants to work on it and it will take time before you feel secure again so don't beat yourself up. I would say you need to go through all this so that there will be no or minimal future resentment. You're doing just fine 32. You'll do what is right for you.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/

[32hh]

Thanks for that. I just don't see why he can't say to me "Yes all right, she was a desperate old tart". He doesn't have to think it, just say to make me feel better. And part of me suspects it's not even because of how he feels/felt about her, it's more about his ego- that if she is just a desperate harpy who can't get a bloke of her own, it doesn't exactly make him the superstud he was probably imagining himself. But still, it would make life easier for himself if he would jsut agree! Sent him a horrendously snotty e-mail last night after I had posted on here, then went through and threw him out the bedroom to sleep on the sofa. Didn't make me feel any better though! But this morning we are all "trying again" and "he's not giving up" and all that. But I feel like I could quite easily give up. I don't seem to have the strength to fight for this any more, and part of me resents that I had to fight for it at all- it should all have been him. But I can't do it anymore, so if this is what he wants, he is going to have to do it for me.
But shouldn't dwell, am going for a drink with a friend tonight, i have 20 marlboro lights (oh how he hates me smoking) a new pair of jeans that make me look even thinner,and I've lost another 2lbs. So it's not all bad.
But I really resent the way he mopes arounf sometimes, all down and dejected and expects me to cheer him up. I haven't the energy or inclination to cheer myself up! Why should I cheer him up- it's his fault if he's miserable. Why should I give him a hug when he says he's feeling down and needs a hug? He should be suffering, but I end up giving him the hug, and telling HIM it's all going to be alright. Not Fair!!!
AND ANOTHER THING!!! (Sorry, apparently that is my default phrase when I am in rant mode). He told me the other night that he thought it would all be OK. I asked him how he could be so sure, and he said, "because I know you love me and want it to work." How is it that he gets to be so sure of my love and feel secure in it, when I am not sure of his, when I FEEL totally unloved and rejected no matter what he SAYS, because of what he has DONE to me. But he gets to "Know" I love him? I wish I could be so certain he loved me. And that too is deeply unfair. There should be some way of making them bear all the hurt and pain and unhappiness and uncertainty. After all, they caused it, why is it US who suffer?

[jkk]

Hi 32

mine hates me smoking too!

it's an annoying thing when they have wronged you, but you seem the one trying to put the marriage back on course. Mine did all the techinical stuff right, but i still felt very insecure and unloved - despite H being adamant he love me and wanted the marriage to work.

He was moody and down at times, and seemed distant. This made me suspected he was still seeing O/W - or wanted to be. It threw me into mental chaos. It was like he didn't really have his heart into "us". I tried so hard - like you!

We went away for valentines weekend, he got drunk and narky. The following morning, i packed my bags, and walked from the hotel. I had had enough of him, and myself! I was changing into a person i didn't like (the hidden GPS). But i just felt that something was very wrong, out of my hands, that i could do nothing about. I was ready to end our marriage.

It was strange how things changed over the next few days - i would never have thought it possible. It's like someone sprinkled some magic dust! We have such a close, loving, relationship now. It's scary! A few weeks ago, H bought a motorbike, we even went to Alton Towers on it - what a pair of kids! He has changed so much - for the better! Of course we still have some problems, but we resolve differences amicable, and chat about things we are worried about. I have also changed, and learnt a lot about myself in counselling.

I hope nothing goes wrong!!!!!! But, if it does, i will cope with it.

You are on a bit of a rollercoaster of emotions and feelings - they are not to be trusted at the moment, they are out of zink. You will get your equilibrium back in time, and be able to make reasoned judgements about youself, him, and your relationship.

I think when someone you love, knowing and deliberately, does something to hurt you, it is understandable, that you question their love for you. I know i did.

Be kind to yourself

JKK

[JWD]

I suppose if he agrees with you and she is calls her a desperate sl*g then like you say, doesn't do much for his ego and shows that he has nearly thrown away his marriage for something so meaningless to him and, if he says it was more than that he hurts you, therefore, reverts to I don't know or ' it wasn't like that' urghhh, if I ever hear those words again.

I'm so jealous you're going to the pub, I'm working tomorrow so I'll have to do with meeting my friend and taking her yappy, sexually frustrated dog for a walk, ha, i'll be in good company with the dog.

Have fun.

[JWD]

By the way, not defending your husband. He is still a selfish, weak, pig.

[32hh]

thanks again!!! JKK, I know exactly what you mean about turning into a person you don't like!! I hate that everytime he leaves his phone lying around I go through it, or through his wallet or his pockets to see if \I can find "evidence". I hate that I delibrately kiss him when he comes home, so I can see if he smells of drink or perfume. But I can't seem to stop myself. I even hate that I wonder about everything he says. I don't think he's still seeing the O/W. I don't think he's even particularly fussed about her- from my deranged spreadsheet of doom I could see the calls and texts were diminishing by the time I found out. But he won't condemn her which is, I don't know, ANNOYING as much as anything else. He is better almost all the time to the horrible person he was a few months ago, but occasionally a flash of that person comes out, and I wonder if this is all an act, to calm me down and get past this, then he can go back to being his wondrous selfish self!!!
WHo knows? JKK I have been reading your thread but I haven't posted anything, because really what can I say? Like you say, this is almost identical to you, but a few months behind. I'm really glad things are going so well for you know though- you so deserve and it gives me hope for the future!!!
JWD- I'll have a drink for you- have fun with the pooch! Your advice is always sage and good as well, and of course your musical taste is flawless!

[sadwife]

Hi, goodness you could have been talking about my relationship in a way. We have had loads of stress in our lives over the past 3 years, I am disabled, which stressed H out, and our young son is also disabled. It culminated in my husband cheating on me as he just went off the rails - like your H he denied anything was going on (although you get a feeling don't you, that something isn't right.) It made me feel worthless and stupid. Like you I trawled through his messages and found the evidence.

Now we are trying to get back to an even keel. He has been to see a counsellor, which helped him, but I know he has brushed me off by not telling me the full story of what went on (must think I'm naive, stupid or both). It is hard to get over but remember, putting the blame on you (like my H did) is an excuse. Your H has issues to sort out obviously, (it's been very tough for him lately it seems)and remember too that he CHOSE to be unfaithful, you did not make him. With no wish to offend any men in the room (!), they often cannot cope as well with stressful situations, and can be very needy. If you, god forbid, have your mind on trying to live your own life and not his as well when he's feeling low, then looking elsewhere for some kind of satisfaction be it drink, sex, whatever, is all too often the answer for some blokes.

My advice, for what it's worth, is thrash it out.. I think he needs to get some kind of help to sort his head out, but you can't make him go - he would have to be up for it. I would say that you too need to talk face to face with an independent person, be it a counsellor or whatever, who can help you see that you are not to blame for anything, cos I know that unless you hear that, you start thinking there's something wrong with you to have caused it.

If you love each other, then hopefully you'll move on. And your sons deserve it. It is bl**dy hard though. I think that song by James Morrison fits when you are trying to forgive and well, maybe not forget "The truth hurts, a lie's worse" and something about loving the person a little less than before.

Thinking of you

[yogamad]

Hi 32

That doesn't sound at all fair to me. He should be really trying to make you feel loved and wanted and it looks like you're having to do all the hard work.

Have you been to any counselling yet?

Take care.

[lanzarotedoll]

Hi

Im sorry to hear of your predicament. Ive been posting here too since i found out my husband cheated on me. Similar to yours - met her a few times I caught him before any relations etc he came back but was continuing to see her behind my back. There relationship eventually became sexual but at this time I had no idea it was happening. My hubby is a rep and works all over scotland and northern ireland. He would be away and would phone me to speak with the kids. Things had been going down hill which i accept was as much me as him. We separated for a couple of months and he said he wouldnt see anyone until we had sorted this properly. He came back in November to try again. We were getting on and he seemed to do all the right stuff - say sorry, be around.

Until feb 14th this year when we were out in company and i used his phone to text. I held it and the next thing i knew there was a text back which i thought was from who id been texting. No it was from his lover who just text to say I love you. I was devastated. I went and have been through all the motions you are going through. We're at the stage where we're trying again! Its a joke to be honest. I too wonder how he could just dump her without contact after he declared undying love for her. I dont believe he hasnt been in contact with her. But I too dont know how to move on. I personally dont think that I can. But everyone is different.

Things can get better after infidelity but despite numerous questions about her and him, his job etc Im desparate to sell my house so I can move on. He's out all the time and is not going to change.

I hope you work things out.

LD
x

[Raymond]

Thats sad LD. We spoke about repentance and forgiveness but that has come to nothing if he has been deceiving you and still carrying on with this woman. Feb 14th should mean something else to a married couple. It doesn't work does it. You deserve better than that.

Raymond

[32hh]

Thanks Lanzarotedoll and Sadwife- it's very selfish but good to know I'm not alone.
I don't seem able to stop torturing myself over this. The weekend started really well, went out with my friends on Friday, then out with H on Saturday and had a really nice time. Then as I was getting ready for bed, one of those "black clouds" as Yogamad calls them hit out of nowhere, and I just went from thinking how lovely H was, to thinking "But hang on, he's been scr*wing around" and then was just into that downward spiral, but didn't say anything, just went to bed and fumed, becuase I didn't want a row after the nice evening.
So on Sunday I took the kids to get new shoes and he had done all the tidying up when i got back, and so I still didn't say anything because he was really trying. Then his parents came for dinner, and his dad was talking about a certain well known computer company who happens to have the same name as his little t*rt. And his dad was going on and on and repeating the name over and over, and even though it was completely irrational because a) his dad doesn't know about her and b) it was completely unrelated, he was talking about a computer company, not his son's lover!!! it was enough to push me over the edge. So after tehy'd gone of course I blew up and wailed and shrieked and yelled and he kept asking what would help me, what I needed, so STUPID STUPID ME, said I needed answers and till I got them I couldn't move on. So he said OK and then I got the answers to most of my questions (though there were still a good few "I don't knows"). So to quetions like how did you end up in bed with her instead of "it just happened" I got" Well, we started kissing, then it was pretty obvious where it was going so we got a taxi back to hers and then we had a glass of wine, but I didn't finish it because we went upstairs and had sex". It was my fault he told me all that, he hadn't wanted to, rightly so becuase it was like a knife in heart, especially for some reason the kissing part! But of course I had to keep twisting the knife by asking mmore and more questions. So if the pictures in my head were bad before they are 10 times more graphic now the gaps have been filled in. Even though he's not seeing her anymore I feel dirty when he touches me now, because he has been touching her. I feel the physical intimacy between us, which should have been just for us has been totally smashed and cheapened and dirty, because he has been with her now and so what we have is no longer special. And because he still continues to underestimate my intelligence, he got caught out in another lie, relating to how premeditated it was. So every time he gets caught lying, i feel any tiny bit of trust has gone again. I keep telling him that he can't lie any more, that I hae to know all the truth, however much it hurts. The only consolation is I think he was really honest last night, though perversely of course part of me wishes he hadn't been because of course"the truth hurts".
He keeps trying to reassure me that he will do anything to make this better, and i can take as long as I like, but at the same time, i feel under pressure from him to be happy if he does something nice and not cry all the time. He says "No, if I'm sad cry, and don't be happy unless I am, there's no pressure or time frame" but then he does something nice and looks so hopeful I feel I can't say "Actually I still feel like pants", and have to put a happy face on.
Does anyone else feel like this? Or get these sudden random overwhelming bursts of sadness still? It's been nearly 3 months now, but I don't feel I'm even starting to move forward. And am I overreacting to it all and just wallowing in self pity?
We have our first counselling session on Thursday. Maybe that will help.

[32hh]

So I now appear to be stalking his little trollop. That's probably not good is it? I tried to phone and text her when I first found out, basically because I wanted to hear if her version of events corroberated mine, but she wouldn't speak to me (probably because in their last tender exchange H had told her not to- I suspect he told her I was a crazy psycho woman- not far off the truth). So occasionally I ring to see if she will talk to me yet. She made the decision to sleep with a married man and shatter my marriage, hurt me possibly irrepairably, it seems to me that the least she can do is talk to me. But clearly she is a coward as well as a f*cking wh*re because she never will. So then I tend to get p*ssed off and just start ringing her home number in the middle of the night etc (using a PAYG sim card I only use for that- got it free with a phone- haven't gone wuite crazy enough to go out and buy one). Then the notion passes and I stop doing it for awhile. But today obviously being mega crazy and head messed up, tried again- no answer. So I have come up with a master plan! He met her through a mutual friend, lets call her R, that they are both quite close to. H is adament that Trollopface will not have told R about the affair and he too has no wish for her to know. So I have R's mobile number I got from H's phone, and maybe if I am angry and crazy enough I will text her, telling her what a husband stealing b*tch her precious pal is, and telling her to ask Trollopface what she got up to the night of R's birthday party. I plan to tell H what I am going to do first, and see what his reaction is to Trollopface being "outed" as the sl*t she is to her friends. And him to of course. The more he defends her and tells me not to will make me more determined. Anyway, I'm just waiting for him to call now, so I can let him know of my stroke of genius!!!! I'm just SO TIRED OF ME BEING THE ONE WHO IS HURT AND UPSET BY THIS! I WANT BOTH OF THEM TO PAY AND I DON'T CARE WHAT THE REPERCUSSIONS ARE.

Nope reading the post over, the plan doesn't seem any saner or less crazy for writing it down. I am certainly going to threaten him with it- whether I do it or not depends on his reaction. And this is exactly what JKK meant I think about turning into someone you don't like- the sort of person who sends malicious anonymous texts! This isn't me! But being angry is a h*ll of lot better than being sad!!!!!!! Long Live Blind Rage!!!!!!!!

[32hh]

So he called my bluff!!!! Said go ahead and call or text R about what him and Trollopface got up to, it didn't make any difference to him, as he is unlikely to see R again anyway since he can't to Belfast anymore because of the Trollop. So it wasn't fun anymore! To be honest I really only wanted to threaten him and see what his reaction was. And I'm much calmer after a little meltdown on the phone- I wanted to know her surname (can't believe I didn't ask before!!) and he wouldn't tell me at first- said he didn't think it was relevant!! I said it was and ranted for a while about why was he protecting her and he eventually told me. Don't know if he's telling the truth though. Tried looking her up on BT website but nothing (though she could be ex directory- have her numbers anyway just wanted to see if he's telling the truth). He claimed he was trying to protect me from myself, not her from me, he didn't want me doing anything that might hurt me! I said "like what?" which he didn't have an answer for. Maybe it's just that male thing of covering their own backs and trying to limit the damage rather than protecting her? Oh, i am so tired and insane. But I have a cup of tea, and a chocolate bunny purloined from the baby's easter stash (my daughter has hers carefully catologued so I can't pinch any, but luckily the baby can't count!) and Sky+ luckliy recoreded all my programmes while I was having my craqzy session, so I'm going to try to calm down and then go to bed! So much for sleeping and all being well!!!

[yogamad]

So you're having a cup of tea instead of nice glass of wine too! At least you've got some chocolate, our Easter chocolate went ages ago. I like that - your daughter has her stash carefully catalogued - she must know you well lol

If I were you I think I'd not try to contact the other woman, it will just drive you mad (or even more mad, should I say). Like I said in my thread, your H is with you not her, so I think it would be better for you to try and not think of her if you can (not easy I know). Maybe then you and H can try to put his affair behind you and move on, I really hope you can.

Try and have a better day tomorrow, I'll be thinking of you.

[32hh]

Thanks Yoga, I know you're right! It's not productive this, i just get so angry sometimes and can't think straight! I think it would be easier if I could see where it came from- I mean obviously I know whyy I'm angry, but there seems no rhyme or reason as to why some days I'm fine and can cope with anything and others, for no apparent reason I'm just a mess. Well, if nothing else, I should get my moneys worth from the counsellor on Thursday!!! H has arranged for our daughter to go to someone's house after school ( a miracle in itself) and my boy is in nursery, so we will have time to talk afterwards if necessary. Which is nice of him. I just think sometimes we are pinning too much hope on the counsellor poor chap! But it does seem to have helped other people, so my feeling is it can't do any harm. It might be good if you could get your H to go as well, like you suggested. If nothing else, it will give you a chance to talk and he will have to listen even if he doesn't like what he hears.
Anyway, better days all round tomorrow!
32 x
PS- I'm listening to this to cheer myself up- Bruce Springsteen- Better Days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVrVAA7E7I

[Babe]

hi, am new to the forum,, but will like to post some suggestions. From the post i have read so far, it entails information more about H affair and the other lady, you are concentrating on her to much it make it look as the lady is that important, forget about her. what i will like to say are these.

1. Try as much as possible to forget about the other lady and even about the affair, it really hurt so much to be betray by someone you love, but the fact is it has happen and the way way you manage it, determines the fate of your marriage.

2. shape yourself, try to look more and more beautiful/attractive everytime day. so when your H see you, he will always remember why he married you in the first place. Try some new things, like new shade of makeup, new cloths to make you look younger, that way he will be scared to lose you, and that way you forget all about the other woman and you concentrate on yourselve. Love yourself and look bright and happen, try to forget about them, try to go out with friends and enjoy yourlife a little bit.

3. when you are alone with him, just chip in and talk about how you met, giggle abit, just feel alive around him, ask him why he loves you in the first place and try to work on what he love.

4. Anytime he is at home, make sure he is comfortable, give hime some space sometime to relax and watch is favourite programme. Use that opportunity to do something seexy, like putting on a sexy underwear at home to capture is attention. all this things are some of the things other women are doing to snatch husband. Give him every reason to come to meet a beautiful, cheerful lady.

5. If he kept texting her, be a little secretive yourself, do not tell him everything about you, just do thing sponstaneously, he will then be scared and want to know more.

6. Please lady, give yourself love and feel alive, thinking about them will not only make you depress but will even push him further. Take care of him like never before, let him see what he will miss if you leave him.

7. Lastly, improve more on your sex drive. Try to do something new when having sex, refresh your sex life.

Give him something to think about, and to be scared of losing you.

Good luck with your counselling.http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[jkk]

Hi 32

i was just like you, and still am a bit!

But........... i think you should stop phoning her. It does not achieve anything, other than get you into trouble, and causes further anxiety and depression.

I too wanted further information (my H told me who she was) - maybe it is to find out exactly who you are "up" against, or what your H found attractive about her. Must admit i researched - quite logically (Surprised myself! looking aback at how confused and mixed up i was at the time). I hired a PI, found out a good deal about her, but it didn't help the hatred i feel towards her - i don't think it ever will. But, the advice and insight the PI gave me was brilliant.

I am quite a believer in the saying "what goes around, comes around". And maybe, "don't get mad, get even!". And also "revenge is a dish, best served cold". Remember, "Time is a great healer", - counselling will help you much more than revenge.

You are reacting on emotions and feelings at the moment, and not logical thought. Write yourself a little letter in a "sane" moment (hopes and goals stc), then you can read it whenever you go a little "crazy". It may help you focus and channel your thoughts in a positive way, rather than a destructive way.

Bye 4 now

[32hh]

Hi JKK, you're right of course you are! I hadn't called in a couple of months till yesterday, and again, it started just wanting to hear her side things, then when she wouldn't pick up spiralled into insanity. I didn't call her again though, since ranting on here seemed to get most of it out of my system. If she wants to be a coward and refuse to face up to the consequences of her actions then that is HER problem not mine.. I still think women like her should be punished and accept that their actions have consequences, but it's not for me to punish her. In the olden days I could have accused her of witchcraft and had her burned!!!! :-). Instead I will just hope her lonely and pathetic life is sufficient punishment. I don't accept that she meant me no harm by sleeping with my husband, because she knew I existed and chose to do it anyway, but I shall also choose to feel sorry for her. Perhaps she envied what I hd and wanted it for herself. What I Do know about her is this 1) she is 40
2) She has never been married
3) She can't have children. So maybe she saw my husband as a way to all things she doesn't have? In that case I pity her, poor sad pathetic woman. Because I still have my husband and family and she I hope is left with nothing and will die alone and lonely, which will be fitting punishment for a husband stealing witch like Trollopface. And with that final rant about her, I am not going to think about her anymore. I am going to try and let go of my anger at her as it is doing me no good at all. I will never forgive her, because I don't see why I should but I will pity her.
I will also try your idea about a "sane" letter for the crazy moments. Can I ask JKK, if you had these days of sudden anger and misery when everything seemed to be getting back on an even keel? Thanks once again for your wise and calming words!!!

PS- And I know what you mean about "knowing what you're up against". Someone told me yesterday that apparently almost all men who cheat, do so with women LESS attractive than their wives!!! They swore it was backed by statictical evidence and they weren't just saying it to make me feel better. So I shall choose to believe it!!! :-)

[jkk]

Hi 32

i suffered from dreadful anger and panic attacks, where i could not stop crying. It only really stopped two months ago, with the realisation that i could not, and did not want to, continue my life as it was.

I told him quite bluntly to either commit properly to our relationship, or we divorce. That i was not prepared to become dishonest, that i could not carry on "checking" to see if he was up to something. That if he wanted her to go have her, because i will not, and am not, going to continue feeling like this, and would rather be without him.

I said to him that i could sense that he was sitting on the fence, with regards to our future - sitting back just to see what would happen, basically doing all the right things, but not quite committed. For example he would sometimes say "if we are still together in.........", during the odd conversation, or in an argument "he wanted a divorce". Comments that did not help us to get our marriage onto a firmer footing, and were infuriating/hurtful to me.

Things changed drastically!

Of course we all want revenge on the O/W. But there is a time and place - woman scorned and all that! But nothing illegal, or that could come back to bit us.

Hmmm, yes O/W was older and no where near as pretty as me, but so very very easy (my Hs words), sly, manipulative, and "a right piece of work" (the PIs words).

I do want my marriage to work out, but no more messing about. If it doesn't work out, i will survive perfectly alright.

[yogamad]

That sounds good advice 32. My H obviously hasn't had an affair so I'm not so good with advice in that department but now you've had a good rant about O/W, you can forget all about her. She's not worth you getting stressed/angry over and it's not helping you to move on. The fact that she's 40 and not married with kids, it sounds like she was desperate and didn't care if he was married or not as long as she had a boyfriend. Anyway, enough about her - focus on you!

[32hh]

Thanks everyone for helping get my sanity back. Lot more positive today, though mini meltdown last night- another wbsite advised he if was serious about making this work he had to give me e-mail passwords etc.. So I duly demanded his password, which he gave to me relecutantly. I told myself that if he gave me the password, I wouldn't have to look, but of coursre I did. There was nothing there but I felt really awful for doing it. I wished I hadn't, it was a nasty thing to do. So i shall not be bothering with that site again! But tomorrow we start counselling and hopefully that will help me start moving forward and not going round and round in circles! Wish me luck for tomorrow!!!

[JWD]

Good luck. Really hope you make it 32

[yogamad]

Just want to add my good wishes for tomorrow 32. Let us know how it goes.

[Day2Day]

Good luck 32hh. Counseling takes time. I know I was sort of looking for the quick fix when I first started and wasn't as consistent with it as I should have been. I'm going to make sure I attend more regularly.

Anyway, hope all goes well tomorrow and that the end result leads you and your husband to a stronger marriage. And thanks for taking the time to comment on my thread. I really, really value the advice. :)

[RayCub]

Hey 32....what's the word?? How are things going???

Positive vibes being sent your way!!!
And virtual martinis!!
Ray
xx

[yogamad]

Yeah, how did things go 32? Hope it went well.

[32hh]

It did go well. I didn't think it had at first, becuase the councillor just there and said nothing, while I cried and H tried to say the right things, but when we talked afterwards, I did see that H had listened more to what I was trying to say. SO we talked and talked yesterday and I finally felt like we'd taken a (very small) step out of the circle I've been going round in. Feel calm as well, as opposed to the huge swings of emotion from High to Low- just feel more on an even keel. Going again next week, so hopefully keep moving slowly forward. Hope everythings well you all, thanks for the support (and the martinis)!

[Day2Day]

Happy for you 32.

[32hh]

Thanks everyone, one step at a time eh? I'm sure I have a few rants to post yet, but I do feel H is finally listening to ME and what I need instead of saying what he thinks I want to hear. Which is sometimes hard, but a good step I think!

[JWD]

A very good step 32. You'll know when he is speaking from his heart and not just trying to 'say the right thing' eventually, you'll know.

All the positive vibes in the world. You're a very sensible, strong person. x

[yogamad]

I'm so pleased for you that it went well, I hope you manage to have a much better weekend than the last one. Maybe you'll both come out of this with a stronger marriage than before.

[georgie]

Good luck 32, I believe as long as both of you are open to each other you can work it out, all the signs seem good to my inexpert eyes at this point. In some ways these are really make or break situations, you have an equal opportuniy to let this be the making of you two, let it take you to a level of closeness and communication that you never would have achieved otherwise.

[32hh]

Thanks so much everybody, for all your support. I think we are starting to move forward. Not so much from the counselling actually, as my friends taking me out and telling me some fairly brutal home truths- mainly that this had gone on long enough and I had to stop it now. They were very kind about it, and said they would be there for me whatever I did, staying with H or going, but that I had to stop the anger and rage and taking it all out on him. When I said I didn't know how to stop being so angry, and anyway why shouldn't I take it out on hnim he deserved it, they said basically, that I could stop being angry if I wanted, that in their opinion I had got into the habit of waking up sad and cross and letting that be my default setting for the day, and like any habit it could be broken if I really wanted to. And they also pointed out that pun ishing H with my behaviour was all very well, but it was hurting me as much if not more than him. Before they sound like harsh and appalling people, they have all known me for over 20 years and i know they only have my best interests at heart. I was angry at first, but after I left them, I went and sat in a bar on my own (I'd never done that before, but it was Sunday and all the coffee shops were shut and I really needed some time on my own to think before I went home- it was quite liberating actually). I came to the conclusion they were right, they had said I was basically just wallowing in self pity now instead of trying to move on, and everything they had said was right. I couldn't go on like that, I had to decide to let it go or leave him. And it felt like a weight lifted from me, i wnet home and we talked and talked and things are suddenly better. H hasn't done anything different, the change is in me. And it feels so much better not to be so full of hate and anger poisoning everything.
I also had a long talk with one of my friends on the train home who had an affair 3 years ago. Somehow, I managed to never judge her for her behaviour, but she has had 3 years to reflect on what she did and offered some explanations for H's behaviour. Basically she said that when the affair was happening she shut herself into a sort of fantasy world, where her behaviour seemed perfectly reasonable and justified. After her affair was discovered and her fantasy bubble shattered, she said she looked at what she had done and how she had behaved and just though "What had I been thinking?" I asked H about it and he said actually Yes, that was a very accurate description of his situation as well. So that was my final question answered- we had covered sordid details (didn't help) had finally got to the bottom of "WHY", but i had never been able to understand "HOW" he could have done this to me when he said he loved me. I know the explanation doesn't excuse his behaviour, but it does gives me some understanding of it. Which is a big help. I am so glad someone finally told me to buck up though- H couldn't of course, but it was what I needed. Hopefully this will be the making of us! :-)

[JWD]

That's good to hear 32, once you let go of the anger and stop thinking about how unjust it is you will get better. Of course you have every right to feel like thing but it's good that your friends are able to tell you enough is enough and even better that you agree and are ready to try and move on.

All the best. x

[yogamad]

Hi 32, I'm glad that you're friends are there for you and gave you some good advice and that you took it and are feeling happier. Going over and over the reasons for your H's affair, why he did this and why he did that was hurting you more than him. Now, perhaps you can put it behind you and move on. Some marriages do work out after one partner has had an affair and some are even stronger than before. I think you've done the right thing. Good luck!

[32hh]

Well it was better for a bit. But now I'm sitting here on my own because he has "popped out for an hour" because he "just needs to talk to Gavin" about something. Gavin and he are in the pub. He couldn't phone him about it oh no. He has to go to the pub and see him. It's just like before. The only difference is he had the "decency" to call me and tell me what he was doing instead of just going out and letting me come home and find he'd gone. Not to ask, you note, but to tell. So I get to put the kids to bed and sit here on my own waiting until he finally decides to bother coming home. I just feel like this is what I had dreaded all along- that all his effort and super husband routine was just to get the difficulties over, and as soon as I had said" actually, yes it's OK I'm over it, or getting over it" he'd go "RIght, business as usual, back to my old tricks". So he didn't mean any of it, he just was taking the path of least resistance for a while. I've had it. When he comes home I'm telling him either he changes FOR GOOD, or I'm leaving. I'm not going back to the way we were before, with him always in the pub and me doing everything. I used to think that actually if we split up the kids would see MORE of him than they did as it was. And I WILL NOT go back to that, i would rather be on my own, properly on my own, instead of stuck in some twilight half marriage with a man who is never here, thinks only of himself and eventually starts getting his kicks elsewhere. I really thought he'd changed. Am I that stupid?

[RayCub]

No, 32, you are SO FAR from stupid. All you were was hopeful and optomistic, and there is nothing wrong with being that way. You were accepting and forgiving and faithful and loving and patient. All amazing qualities that your H, unfortunatley, has taken for granted and disregarded with his selfish behaviour.

I had SO hoped that this was going to work out for you. My heart breaks for what you're going through. Do what you have to do, and be strong. You deserve much, much more than what you're getting from him now.

Sending oodles and oodles of positive energy your way!!!
And lots of vodka and funky dance music too!!!

Ray
XXX

[yogamad]

I'm sorry you're having problems with your H again, you don't deserve it. I didn't realise he used to go off to the pub and leave you to put the kids to bed. Did he do this alot then? Sounds to me like he wants to have his cake and eat it, you're there to put the kids to bed, he can come and go as he pleases and who knows what else.

When he gets home if he's not had too many drinks and you feel up to it, you should tell him how you feel and let him know you're not putting up with his behaviour. If not tonight, then over the weekend. He should be trying really hard to put things right after his affair not going off to the pub with his mates.

And no, you're definitely not stupid, far from it. Let us know how it goes.
take care
x

[georgie]

Oh 32 - it seems you are married to a carbon copy of my H. I can tell you my H is now seeing A LOT more of the kids then he did in the last year of our marriage. He was too busy working, playing football, going out with the lads and ohhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh CHEATING! to come home before they were in bed. I kept saying to him, I felt like I was under house arrest, all I did was sit here making sure the kids are ok, waiting for him to come home.
Since he's been gone, my workload has increased very little except now he has the kids on Monday and Tuesday night so I'm actually able to leave the house!!! On Saturday mornings I am also free to go shopping on my own and do all the boring stuff that drives the kids mad - like go to medicare and the bank. I'm actually realising that my life is better. Appart from the finances - it is really starting to feel like an improvement. (if only I could shake his parents off - things would really be looking up!!). I was so distraught at first, I felt an emotional void, but I think it was really all in my head. He never really offered me any support, I was just a sounding board for all his problems, ambitions etc.
I want it to work out for you, but only if it's really working. Dont compromise too much of your life away if all he's ever going to be is selfish, and you are made to feel like a nag for asking him to treat you and your kids with a love and respect. I sincerely wish you all the best xxx

[32hh]

Well we did talk about it when he came home. Actually I didn't need to say anything, I think my face said it all. He swore it's not going back to how it was- his friend had done some work in the house for him and when H asked what he owed for it his pal said to just buy him a couple of beers. So he couldn;t really not? And he was back within a couple of hours of me posting. I think he is trying, he even didn't go out to watch the football on Saturday so i could go to the gym. And he drove over to my friends for dinner in the evening who liive about an hour away. Previously he had refused to go there because it was "too far" and he was just really snobby about where they live. But this time he agreed without a murmur. So that must be good. I wish i could just stop over reacting to every little thing- he yelled at me the other day because my daughter hit my son with the swing (by mistake!) and he thought his mouth was bleeding (it was chocolate) and I was doing nothing. He was just in a panic because he thought the baby was hurt and I hadn't noticed (I had noticed and had verified that he was fine) but I just dissolved into tears. He apologised straight away, but I was still really tearful the rest of the day. It's stupid. It's like the rational me is trying to move on and put it behind me but the irrational part, or emotional part or whatever is still on a hairtrigger. I still go cold and feel sick if I see her name anywhere (not in conjucntion with her or him- just someone with the same first name in the paper or anywhere), which is COMPLETELY irrational. Anyway, enough moaning, many people have far worse H's so I need to keep things in perspective. And stop overreacting to everything. Like my last rant. I suppose this is the part where you have come to terms with it, and are getting to the forgiving stage but trying to rebuild the trust? Like the other night his phone kept getting texts, just jokes from a friend, he showed me them, but everytime it beeped I thought "what if it's her?" and then it rang but he didn't pick up in time and said he didn't know who it was. So I checked his phone the next morning and there was no number but a voicemail message he'd picked up. So I listened obviously, and it was someone about a holiday cottage we're renting in the summer. But I'm so paranoid I immediately assume the worst. Still checking his phone bills as well, even though all this makes me feel like some sort of sordid dirty sneaky person. Not good. Must Try Harder!!!!
On the plus side, we're going away for a few days, so maybe just being away from here, and all the daily pressures and the kids and somewhere to just focus on each other and making this better will help.
Anyway, that's me done with the moan now!!!!

[yogamad]

Hi 32

Well, your H does sound as if he's trying so that's good. It's going to take time for you both to try and put his affair behind you and move on. You've got to be patient and keep working at it. You're doing great. You're bound to still want to check his phone and feel suspicious every now and again, that's only natural so don't beat yourself up about it. Just remember, he's with you and he's trying to make it work. Just keep doing what you're doing and enjoy your few days away together for some bonding time.

[jkk]

Hi 32

sometimes we forget that we can react physically to trauma. This includes changes and imbalances in the chemicals we produce in the brain, for example with depression. Things are knocked out of zink, and it takes time for things to settle back to normal. Some people chose to take medication, and/or counselling to help - usually there is no quick fix, it just takes time. You will get "back to normal".

Don't worry too much about trust issues. I suppose maybe a weird way of looking at things might be that, yes, your H has broken your trust, and therefore is untrustworthy. Maybe your snooping reaffirms that nothing is going on, and you get relief from not finding anything. There might be an arguement that you are protecting your our interests by snooping!
Given time these issues will resolve themselves.

I think many people in our situations react in very similar patterns - snoopying, up and down emotions, sleeplessness, weigh loss, and horror at what we do and how we act at times. So maybe your reactions are perfectly normal under the circumstances!

Similarly, over-sensitivity to stimulus that remind us of the o/w evoke reactions (anger, tears, insecurities, memories), will lessen with time. Your reactions won't change overnight, there maybe always something that acts like a trigger ie a name. Given time, many of the associations you have made will cease to affect you, and you will develop ways of dealing with how you reaction. It just takes a bit of time.

Take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, hope you enjoy your few days away.