A question for you all...

[Mr D]

Hi everyone,

I have a strange question for everyone on this forum, I have been lurking here since Christmas and find the advise that everyone gives very good.

I am having serious problems with my wife at the moment. One of the major problems is that we find it hard to communicate without it escalating into a row which can be very destructive.

We have two small children ages 3 and 7, I love my wife very much and I believe she loves me. But I am only too aware that I need to make changes in myself and my wife needs to make some changes too.

So, my question to you all is "would you be happy for me to invite my wife onto this forum so that we can discuss issues with the help and insight of everyone on here?"

I know this is a strange request, but I respect the views of many here.

Please be honest in your responses.

many thanks

Mr D

[JWD]

That sound positive that you are both trying. Have you tried couple counselling at all? They are very good at setting boundaries and giving each person a chance to talk and having a third person in the room prevents flare-ups.

Maybe you could both write down in a letter how you feel, gives you both a chance to think what you are trying say.

I don't really have an opinion on you both posting, suppose as long as you don't get into defending yourselfs against each others compaliants etc. I'm not really any good with the advice on staying together but lots of others are as you know.

Hope you make it

[jahdog]

would be happy to give any advice that may help keep any one from the hell i have gone through. wish wife and i had some help before was too late.

[jahdog]

then again wtf do i know. my wife walked on my marriage. do not think i am qualified to give any advice.

[clockwork orange]

Don't see a problem with that. Agree with JWD that counselling such as Relate or perhaps mediation (to begin with) would probably benefit you both. Credit to you for attempting to do something before it is too late.

A couple of suggestions from things I've learned if they are any use to you. Try to avoid the "You always", "you make me feel", "you never" kind of statements. Use "I feel....... when you......" type of thing rather. If you are not up to a discussion, acknowledge your wife's issue as important, and ask her whether you could talk about it at a mutually convenient time when you can give it your full attention. Often neutral ground helps - go to the park or something. Never ever interrupt. A white hanky or something to be held by the speaker can be helpful as a reminder.

Also get "the five love languages" by Gary Chapman. The things that make you feel loved are NOT the same as your wife's. This is one time where "do unto others" does not work!!!

Hope that helps.
CO

[JWD]

our counsellor suggested setting an alarm clock for 15 mins and each get a chance to chat, when the bll rings it's the other persons chance to talk.

I know everything to do lol, just don't have a aprtners willing to participate

[Ageing Grace]

Interesting question, Mr D.

As you know I'm a big fan of counselling - some counsellors are pretty dreadful, though, so it's as well to know what your issues & objectives are before you go!

Same with books. So, on balance, it could be useful for you both to post here; at the least, any feedback you get will be well-meant ... and might very well prompt the discussions you need to have :)

Is Mrs D okay with the idea, or have you not mentioned it yet?

AG

[Raymond]

I think it would be a positive thing Mr D as usually we only get one side of the story and cannot input to the other half. There is lots of good advice on this site apart from the forum as you probably know. Give it a go but sift our replies and take what you feel is right for you. It would be a first for this site I think and could be groundbreaking.

Raymond

[dave123]

Hi Mr D,

Well done for recognising the issue and taking active steps to work through this period together. However you decide to do it just the idea that you are trying will make a positive impact on your relationship. I have found the anonymity on here really refreshing and has helped me to be honest with myself and my posts and have admitted things that i probably would have kept back had the anonymity not been there. I also went through counseling, which i would suggest as the best help for you guys. Like Ray says though, take the advice you like and leave the rest behind. So feel free to ignore me completely!

All the best to you both,

Dave

[georgie]

I agree with Dave. I recently had a dinner party with 6 close friends and got lots of very loving completely contradictory advice, but it all went in to my 'processor', and I took a few valuables from it. The counsellor is in my view your best option, there are some basic communication skills which we should be taught over and over again from the momment we learn to speak, but somehow we don't even realise they exist until we are in this type of situation. Good luck to both of you, I hope you work things out to a happy conclusion for both of you no matter how.

[Mr D]

Thank you for all of your responses.

Unfortunately events took a turn for the worst last night, we had a big row about nothing really, mostly my fault. And as a result I left, packed a bag, got in the car and drove for 4 hours to my parents.

So, as a result and from speaking to my wife - it is over. I made the decision to leave and was warned by my wife that if I left it was over.

I would still like to invite Mrs D to this thread, I don't know if she will respond, we will see.

I agree with above posts, I do not want this thread to spirral into a slagging match, a tit for tat. I would like a space for both of us to express out feelings, concerns, fears and worried to an audience whose opinions I generally respect.

I feel very numb at the moment. Guilty for leaving the wife alone for the Easter break with vthe children and no support, but that said we both need some space at the moment

Thank you.

[JWD]

She may have said it in anger if she said it at the time or if it's something she has said before then I'm sure she won't stick to it. Maybe when you have both calmed down over the weekend you can discuss it.

keep positive

[RayCub]

Yeah, she might not mean it that she doesn't want you to come back. Just give it some time and space and see where that leads...

[Mr D]

Thanks for the replies, this time it is very serious. Hopefully you will get to hear the history as I have emailed over the link to this.

[Brotan]

You need to go back to her. You really really do. If she won't have you back it will become her problem, but right now you need to return to her - you cannot just run away from your wife. That is very immature behaviour and prevents any work from happening in the marriage.

How do I know - because my husband left me and in retaliation I left him while he was gone (he stayed with his brother for more than a week)

If you watch the movie Fireproof they will tell you: you never leave your partner, especially in a fire - your wife is your partner. If you want to save this marriage at all then go back now.

You have basically abdicated all responsibility and you have 2 small children who need their mother and father and especially over Easter - what you need to do is go back and be mature, do not start any fights with your wife, lay off discussing any problems for now and enjoy Easter as a family. Afterwards you will need to start to rpoblem solve in your marriage, but right now you need to return to your home.

[jkk]

Hi i agree,

go back now, when u r stil together under the same roof, things r easier to resolve! even if she objects! u usually have a right. Then start to resolve your problems,

never make hasty decisions

JKK

[Ageing Grace]

Seconded (thirded?)

You can't say you want to fix things, ask for help - which takes courage, in itself - and then run for the hills. I hope you're not reading this, because I hope you're stuck in a holiday traffic jam on your way back home!

So you arrive back with your tail droopy. So what? A marriage isn't a face-off! Or not for long, heh.

Mrs D: I bet you're reading this ;)
I wish I knew something about your story, and I wish you weren't having such a complicated Easter. I wish you the best, as I'm sure we all do.

Love & courage,
AG

[clockwork orange]

Well said AG.

[Mr D]

Hello everyone, and once again thanks for the replies.

I am still at my parents and will not be returning back home until easter monday, hopefully by lunchtime. MRs D will leave as soon as I arrive to hopefully have a break and some time for herself. I will be with the kids for the rest of the day and into the evening. I will stay at home on Monday night (we have discussed this) and will then move out on the Tuesday.

This is the only option and will give us both the space that is needed right now to reavaluated where we are at. I have spoken briefly with Mrs d everyday since leaving on thurday and spoken with both my daughters too. It broke my heart this evening having to speak with my eldest and saying I would be there for her always even if it meant being in a different house, she saying how we can always talk on the phone and how I had to say that we would see each other in person all the time. She didn't know I was crying but the tears were rolling down my face.

And then my cheeky little youngest pouring out the days activities still to young to fully understand.

I have been offered to opportunity to stay at my mother in laws house (she's away in europe for quite a while) and that has lifted a huge burden for many reasons.

1. I wont be in some horrid bedsit costing a small fortune on aminimumn 6 month contract
2. It's familiar
3. The children can visit and it's familier to them
4. It's about 3 miles for the marital home

Today has been filled with very constrasting emotions, tears and wanting to curl up and disapear. To feeling alittle bit more positive about the future now, howerver it may unfold.

Some history, I have just finished 12 weeks counseling, and am on the waiting list for a course of CBT aswell this is to deal with some very confusing issues that are much more related to me than the relationship. Many of these a causeing the marital problems.

Anyway will post again tomorrow hopefully.

Take care everyone.

[Mr D]

You need to go back to her. You really really do. If she won't have you back it will become her problem, but right now you need to return to her - you cannot just run away from your wife. That is very immature behaviour and prevents any work from happening in the marriage.

How do I know - because my husband left me and in retaliation I left him while he was gone (he stayed with his brother for more than a week)

If you watch the movie Fireproof they will tell you: you never leave your partner, especially in a fire - your wife is your partner. If you want to save this marriage at all then go back now.

You have basically abdicated all responsibility and you have 2 small children who need their mother and father and especially over Easter - what you need to do is go back and be mature, do not start any fights with your wife, lay off discussing any problems for now and enjoy Easter as a family. Afterwards you will need to start to rpoblem solve in your marriage, but right now you need to return to your home.


I hear what you are saying, our history is very complex, but I think under the circumstances this really is the best for everyone. I hope from the bottom of my heart we can somehow resolve the problems, but this space is needed now.

[Raymond]

I agree with Brotan about going back. It reminds me of my wife who use to storm out during an argument, go round the block, calm down and then come back. She was really trying to show me how exasperating I was I suppose but we still had to carry on from where we were when she came back, so it didn't really achieve anything. It made me think though I suppose but didn't really solve the problem. It gave her a chance to calm down but prolonging it would have been stupid I think. Things were always dealt with before bedtime as we believed the scripture "Let not the sun go down on your wrath". Anger has to be dealt with the same day which is a good rule I think.

Raymond

[yogamad]

Staying and trying to sort out problems is definitely the way to go but sometimes if things are that bad, leaving sometimes seems the only option. I would've loved to have stayed when H and I have had bad arguments but when he's angry it's no good to try and sort anything out. Sometimes a bit of space is the right thing to do but only for a day or two, not for any longer.

Thinking of you.

[Hilary]

The big question is: Do you want it to be over? If not then go back. She might not want you there - but if you want to try to make the marriage work then you have to have the balls to be a man and go back. By all means apologise for the bits you get wrong, but say that you want it to work.

I am serious about the balls bit. No woman wants a wimp that runs away when the going gets tough. But... and here is the difficult bit where you probably need counselling to get it right... there is a difference between being a man and being a control freak. You don't want her setting ALL of the rules (or you either), so if you want the marriage to continue then go back NOW. It is your home after all. And you have a huge responsibility to your children. One of the best role models you can be for your children is how to work your way through your relationship problems.

As an afterthought -
There is just the possibility that you ran away instead of hitting her - in which case the running away was a strength, showing you value her and yourself enough to avoid that.

One of the really important things is to write out your list of values - what is really important to you. If you list them under the areas below then you will get special insights, because all four of these needs need to be met.
Significance - what is your meaning and purpose in life, how you get recognition, what is important so you feel a man?
Connection - what do you need to feel loved, to be a part of your family, a member of other groups
Certainty - what has to happen for you to be certain of her love, certain in your finances, certain in your job?
Variety - what gives you thrills, excitement, something different?

For example if honesty is a value - then you might need it to be certain that your wife will tell you the truth about your relationship or about the money so that you can budget.
If you need lots of variety, then being stuck at home with noisy children and not being able to afford to do the things you used to do might really annoy you - but instead of having the variety of being single again, how about being really ingenious and find ways to have variety with your wife and children.

[1aokgal]

MR. D

When you left your home in a huffy walk-out that is so punishing and aggressive. It would have been better if you both stood toe to toe and yelled some points. That "leaving the field" is not honorable in the way you did it. Then you want to go to mothers or mothers-in-law to stay?

Excuse me, how old are you? Is seems very strange a grown man would be bunking at his mother-in-laws or another relative that you can bring into this mess. I will be surprised if your wife has not already thrown your bags out the door and changed the locks. That behavior to walk out and go TO YOUR MOTHERS...is totally unacceptable. You get no vote from me for doing a manly thing.

Sorry, I see your desire to post here and GET HER TO POST HERE is for you an audience and not a serious desire to resolve a loving relationship. Perhaps since you are so immature she is better off without you.
By the way? Are you employed? I am curious about the timeline you suggest that you are there when she is gone to work and such. You don't really tell us the "issues" of your counselling. Is there an addiction involved in this area?

The leaving is desertion however you cut it. It will end the marriage and give some good grounds for her divorce lawyer. You should have walked around the block to cool off. I don't think you left to get "space" as you say..I think you did it to hurt and wound. It is a holiday weekend and for SURE your children had a most unhappy day where a family should have had a happy day.

Sorry to say it but in her shoes, it would be the last holiday that would be spoiled for my children where you are concerned. Not a proud moment for you, Mr. D.

I think HOME is where you USED to live. She may already have got the locksmith out to put that in practice. It was not a good thing to do for your children. You said you "wanted to resolve the issues." I think you did that when you left the family home. You put an end to your marriage very neatly.

[Brotan]

"but I think under the circumstances this really is the best for everyone."

Are you sure about this and can you back this up - why is it what is best for everyone (your 3 and 7 year old included) What does the space give you that you could not work to achieve in another way while still together? I actually would like to hear your take on this, so please do answer it.

There is a room for space in a marriage - something my husband and I are trying to work out now - walking away when angry is definitely best to give everyone a space to cool down and it is normal and healthy. This is NOT what you have done - it should never take more than a few hours to cool down. Days and days of staying apart is not healthy and has nothing to do with cooling down.

[Mr D]

The big question is: Do you want it to be over? If not then go back. She might not want you there - but if you want to try to make the marriage work then you have to have the balls to be a man and go back. By all means apologise for the bits you get wrong, but say that you want it to work.

I am serious about the balls bit. No woman wants a wimp that runs away when the going gets tough. But... and here is the difficult bit where you probably need counselling to get it right... there is a difference between being a man and being a control freak. You don't want her setting ALL of the rules (or you either), so if you want the marriage to continue then go back NOW. It is your home after all. And you have a huge responsibility to your children. One of the best role models you can be for your children is how to work your way through your relationship problems.

As an afterthought -
There is just the possibility that you ran away instead of hitting her - in which case the running away was a strength, showing you value her and yourself enough to avoid that.

One of the really important things is to write out your list of values - what is really important to you. If you list them under the areas below then you will get special insights, because all four of these needs need to be met.
Significance - what is your meaning and purpose in life, how you get recognition, what is important so you feel a man?
Connection - what do you need to feel loved, to be a part of your family, a member of other groups
Certainty - what has to happen for you to be certain of her love, certain in your finances, certain in your job?
Variety - what gives you thrills, excitement, something different?

For example if honesty is a value - then you might need it to be certain that your wife will tell you the truth about your relationship or about the money so that you can budget.
If you need lots of variety, then being stuck at home with noisy children and not being able to afford to do the things you used to do might really annoy you - but instead of having the variety of being single again, how about being really ingenious and find ways to have variety with your wife and children.


Significance - what is your meaning and purpose in life, how you get recognition, what is important so you feel a man?

Over the weekend at my parents I did start to touch on this, I have always thought I was happy in what I do, after leaving school I had a strong direction for what I wanted to do. This was graphic design, I did my foundation course, had a few years out and then did my degree. I was lucky enough to get a job off my degree show and so started my career. I worked for some very large advertising agencies for many years and then set up on my own in 2003.

For some years new I have felt dissatisfied but never really been able to put my finger on it. I do believe or am starting to realise that I do not have enough ‘meaning’ in my life. I am not happy with my lot and this frustration I thing is being released onto my wife. A few month ago I started looking into what I could do to fill this frustration and came across a Masters degree in design and learning for higher education, basically to further study in graphics but also get the teaching certificate at the same time. My interview is next Monday!! There are only 6-10 places available so it will be very tough.

So this is my search for more meaning in my life. To be able to give more ie teaching. And feel that I have more worth.


Connection - what do you need to feel loved, to be a part of your family, a member of other groups

This is a very interesting one, up until having children I was always one of the leaders, someone people always wanted to be with or have as a friend. I was always part of a large social scene, I did a lot of Djing so we were always out in large groups having a big party, always very busy. This has subsided very dramatically.


Certainty - what has to happen for you to be certain of her love, certain in your finances, certain in your job?

Then you talk of love I think I am possible very stereotypical. I need physical love to be able to make the emotional connection whereas many females need the emotional to want the physical, this for me has always been a difficult one.


Variety - what gives you thrills, excitement, something different?

Variety is definitely lacking I know this and so does my wife, the difficult thing is I do not really know what excites me anymore. Life can feel very mapped out with the same old routine. This is made even more difficult through the fact that I need routine in my life, I need a large amount of structure. I guess I am not very spontaneous.


Your last point about honesty, this is incredibly important to me. Dishonesty can hurt me very deeply. I have been dishonest to my wife about things. And so I have broken a truly importand value to myself.

[Mr D]

"but I think under the circumstances this really is the best for everyone."

Are you sure about this and can you back this up - why is it what is best for everyone (your 3 and 7 year old included) What does the space give you that you could not work to achieve in another way while still together? I actually would like to hear your take on this, so please do answer it.

There is a room for space in a marriage - something my husband and I are trying to work out now - walking away when angry is definitely best to give everyone a space to cool down and it is normal and healthy. This is NOT what you have done - it should never take more than a few hours to cool down. Days and days of staying apart is not healthy and has nothing to do with cooling down.

I do not want to leave, but I have to. I walked out last thursday night and was flatly told that if I did I was not coming back.

I was angry, I lost my temper and stormed out after shouting at my wife in front of the children, this is unexcusable. I was very angry over a very trivial issue. And what came out was a lot of pent up frustration.

I regret leaving, and when I said to my wife yesterday that i didn't want to leave she accused me of emotional blackmail. I can't dissagree with her but I had to say it.

Our biggest problem is the communication, we just cannot seem to talk in an adult and rational way. I so want us to do councelling together so we can both get across our individual point in a controlled environment. The pair of us are judt too close to the problem if that makes sense?

[Mr D]

My biggest problem is that when I am not happy or if my wife has upset me (in my eyes) I sulk. This is a pattern of behaviour that I have leaned over many years, to hurt the person I love the most. I do not do it with anyone else.

I feel that my points are not heard, or that I cannot articulate then correctly. My wife has the ability to be able to very quickly and elequantly be able to point out that the problem is mine, to the fact that it almost sounds plausable. I find this increadable frustrating because I usually genuinely believe I am entitle to feel this way about the issue, but time and time again I am led to believe that it is infact my fault. I am at the point where I do not know what to believe. Myself or my wife.

The bottom line is that all I want is to be happy, with my beautifull wife and georgeous daughters. Why can I not work out how to achieve this?I do fully understand that I play an enourmous part in all of this, but like my wife has admitted, she also playes a part of this proble too.

I hope this is making sense as it really is a bit of a brain dump. I am feeling increadable dissoriantated at the moment and my mind is all over the place.

I know vertually 100% of you are all saying go back, it's just not that simple, i would love to stay and work things out. This time our problems have escallated to the point of involving both sets of family to a large extent. Usually there has only been the odd reference to the problems, or as in Christmas just gone a very believable faciad that everything is fine.

[yogamad]

I recognise a lot of what you say about your marriage in my own marriage. I am the one who sulks but I do it because I don't know what else to do, I know we'll have another argument so I go off and be on my own.

I also feel that I can't get my point across. Even if I am 100% sure that the problem was his fault, he ends up making me believe that the problem was mine. It's weird how that happens but it does every time.

I still think you should go back and have another try at your marriage if you really want it to work out. Why not make the appointment for counselling and if she won't go, go by yourself as this is quite helpful. Maybe she'll eventually want to join you.

I sympathise with you because I have had ongoing problems with H for a long time and I know how extremely hard it is, how it drains everything out of you until you feel you can't cope any more.

Let us know what you decide to do.
Good luck.

[1aokgal]

MR D....

I am not part of the 100% who think you should go back home. I personally, feel you are in a mental crisis of deep proportion and the family is better off without your quick changing moods and narcissitic visions of what you want your life to be. The family as you see things, are holding you back.

This is not "normal" ideation and that tells me this is more than mid-life crisis. I think you need to be in an individual counselling situation and if not now on medication, you should be. Perhaps you are a danger to yourself or the family with feelings of being trapped. Maybe the thought that others stand in your way is more then a need for a total life change. You are overwhelmed and think your wife can get her points across and you can barely communicate the problems.

I am not unsympatheitic but I do take a hard line look at what you have shared with us. Do NOT go home and DO get into further psychological counselling for the feelings you experience. I think you said you feel almost as if things are disoriented or swirling around you. If you feel overwhelmed, then consider to look into checking yourself in to some residential program for your own safety. You are not the only one who has these feelings of helplessness and lack of control. You are so angry you cannot control yourself around the family or children. That speaks volumes at how bad you feel right now.

I am concerned about your well being. If you are faith oriented, then you might even find a free counselling or pastoral help through your church. I don't know where you are located to know the rescources for you. You seem like a very intelligent man and I think you are having a breakdown and need some assistance.

We thank you for posting here and hope we have not been hard on you but helped a little. It seems you love your family, but right now they and you, might be better off for you to get the help you need.

Is your wife employed and are the household financial needs met with you not there? Please look into getting some help for yourself while you feel so overwhelmed. Keep in touch.

[Mr D]

I have just read the last comments, but am about to leave the house, I have packed a large bag, so this is it.

I texted my wife this morning asking to stay, I knew I shouldn't have texted but just had to one last time to ask if I could stay.

I will try to post later, 1aok... I wil reply to you post as many things were spot on

Thanks everyone

[1aokgal]

Dear Mr D...


I think you truly love your family. I know you feel very sad not to be able to meet everyones' expectations at this time. Please, remember that in all our lives we have the tides that roll in and roll out so even the deepest depression can lift. Then we have one of those heavenly days that can cast new light on that dark place in our mind and we realize there is a solution we just did not see. All things are easier to think about and we get some clues that seem to elude us so long.


You are a good decent man who wants to find the right path. It has been just beyond reach. DO not hurt yourself or anyone else because you think everyone is against you..that is not true. Believe me, we all sometimes wonder if it is worthwhile or if we ever find a good solution.

I feel instinctively, that your best path is in your writing and ability to analyze and that stories whirl around in your head. SO I think you have a lot to say and must believe in your abilities to enchant others with well told and well planned events. You are organized to a fault. So you have to be a little more tolerant with others who don't have you ability to detail and complete tasks. I think you get really impatient with others. You also don't like to delegate reponsibility and end up doing most of the work yourself. Then you sulk because you think others take advantage of you. It is true..but you let them. Then you resent that. Learn to say no, and take more time to do things you enjoy to do.

I think you will be able to work everything out in time but it would be a mistake for you to be with others while you are so angry, Pleae remember, this is not anyone's fault but the roll of the dice and you feel as if you disappointed yourself. All of this will pass. Do take time to get outside more and don't shut yourself behind doors. You need others and need someone to talk to.

You can talk to me if you like and I will listen. Take care of yourself.
Warm regards
1aokgal