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rppearso
24th March 2009, 08:01 AM
I am in the process of getting divorced, A long story of sexual and financial issues which caused me to be depressed and she eventually walked out, we both went to church and are christians. After she walked out I found myself vulnerable and started having FWB (friends with bennifits) relationships and I now have a GF I am committed too. I still consider myself a christian but I have been taking alot of flack from church members and I do not go anymore because I feel very awkward there, I dont do very well as a single person but after my first marriage im not in a hurry to remarry but it is also not very realistic for me to stay celibate either. I guess it just feels like a double edge sword, I used to not have any issues with the church teaching but it seems like they preach an unrealistic set of guidelines when it comes to sex and relationships (unless you are among the ultra lucky that marry and dont have a spouse thats a prude or has significant issues, im not talking about having a bad day becasue someone was crabby at work and you forgot to take out the trash, im talking years of depression because of serious disfunction, I dont want to go through one more month of depressoin life is to short and im sick of the overly simpistic unrealisitic advice). It almost feels like God is setting us up for failure, I get tired of the droned montra of marriage is work, I understand that but the good times should greatly out weight the bad times otherwise what is the advantage of being married, just like it takes hard work to get an engineering degree but you dont put in that hard work to graduate and work at mcdonalds. I dont feel repentant for doing something God programmed me to do because im gun shy about jumping into another marriage because he dropped the ball on the first one, of course she did walk out on me and I am commited to my GF unless she walks out on me or prudes out on me im not going to leave her and the bible does not talk about having a fancy wedding to be one so maybe that is why I dont feel guilty, I just feel bad that I get so slammed from the church, the chruch takes such a hard liner approach on this issue and is so full of hypocrites it drives me insane, I feel my personal ministry is to talk to people about the importance of sexual activity to keep a marriage alive, sexual issues are a huge contributing factor to divorce and the church seems to like to just ignore it and say crap like well your getting once a week and thats better than some guys buzzzz wrong answer, thats like saying I only get piss drunk and get in a bar fight once a month so its ok. Its like pastors I would talk to would admit it in private but never talk about it in public, what is going on here.

Also on a side note, if you could send Jesus email every day sometimes I wonder if I would want a reply, I dont really want to go to mozambique lol, I guess I might not have that fear once I finish reading the bible, I feel like I have been preprogrammed from birth with what I want to do in life but its not stuff like going on mission trips to uganda, I have tried to get on christian forums to discuss sexual topics but have been banned and am not sure how to get my point across, my GF has other married friends that have the same seeds of divorce that my marriage had and if you fix it before that bad seed grows its not a big deal (things such as the wife saying I dont like to give oral or swallow etc or because she is pregnant she is not in the mood that has divorce and broken relationship written all over it and these people are suposidly christians. The 50% divorce rate among christians is not a surprise with as prudish as some people are, I blame the church for this prudish behavior they harp on the issue of sex so much it turns women off and when they finally are married they have had this whole issues of sex hammered in there head there husband is going to pay for it and it will result in divorce, every time someone wants to get self ritchous about sex I want to slap them in the mouth thats how mad I get, all you have to say is you should wait till your married and leave it at that you dont need to say it every day like a broken record. I feel like I have a totally unsupported mission but I feel very strongly about this and if people dont wake up the divorce rate is going to climb. Not wanting to swallow your husband is not ok, I know that sounds funny but its really not when you neglect your spouse its going to build resentment and an irriversable breakdown in the marriage.

Raymond
24th March 2009, 09:31 AM
If your ministry really is giving sexual advice rppearso then God will open the door for you. We are all different as people and you are right one size does not fit all. This is shown in nature where not one snowflake or leaf is exactly the same as another etc.

Are you saying your divorce was over oral sex? Personally I don't feel one can force any act on ones wife that they are not comfortable with. Thats part of respecting ones spouse. I find that women including my wife are far from prudes in marriage. Theres no place for prudery in the bedroom. On that I would agree. I can only imagine you come from a church that pushes a certain line, but sex is really a celebration of intimacy in marriage and can be a lot of fun as well. Have a look on themarriagebed.com for intance. Whilst I believe sex outside marriage is wrong, sex within marriage is amazing and fantastic, provided the commitment is there.

Raymond

rppearso
25th March 2009, 08:05 AM
That was a big part of our problem, and when she did it she would make me feel miserable and tell me she felt like a whore, and no you cant force anyone to do anything and I became extremely depressed and irritable, we did the whole conseling thing but all she did was tell counselors she dident want to do X, Y or Z and that I had to live with that and I obviously was not living with it very well so instead of working on it she left, thats life. I think the church needs a serious dose of reality when it comes to sex and marriage but sadly most dont want to hear it or do anything about it and divorce is the result. It is unrealistic to ask someone to give up something that they need in the marriage otherwise they would have just stayed single. Anyways thanks for letting me vent.

If your ministry really is giving sexual advice rppearso then God will open the door for you. We are all different as people and you are right one size does not fit all. This is shown in nature where not one snowflake or leaf is exactly the same as another etc.

Are you saying your divorce was over oral sex? Personally I don't feel one can force any act on ones wife that they are not comfortable with. Thats part of respecting ones spouse. I find that women including my wife are far from prudes in marriage. Theres no place for prudery in the bedroom. On that I would agree. I can only imagine you come from a church that pushes a certain line, but sex is really a celebration of intimacy in marriage and can be a lot of fun as well. Have a look on themarriagebed.com for intance. Whilst I believe sex outside marriage is wrong, sex within marriage is amazing and fantastic, provided the commitment is there.

Raymond

Raymond
27th March 2009, 09:02 PM
Thinking about your situation rppearso I think you were wrong to try and force your wife into oral sex. Maybe she had issues in the past that you didn't know about. Wasn't there other things to do in the bedroom? Is oral sex that important? She probably wanted to please you in lots of other ways maybe? Maybe patience and love would have awakened her? There are lots of people who don't like os. I am sure there are lots of other things to do in the bedroom. Forcing anything would tend to put the other person off sex altogether. We are all different remember. I think the problem may have been your obsession with os perhaps? I don't know.

I have ready in your other writings how you are railing against the church, but if you have asked Jesus into your life you are also the church. The church is people not a building or an organisation. All who have come to Christ are part of the church whatever their faults. Your quarrel is surely with a few people in your church and not the whole church of which we are both a part.

It seems you have filed for a divorce because of the seperation so have not given any way back to solve your marriage problems. That is sad I think. A bit of patience may have helped in both situations.

Raymond

rppearso
27th March 2009, 10:21 PM
I should probably clarify, I never forced anything I just was extremely unhappy/unlucky with the situation, I understand you cant force someone to do something. I would agree I have issues with particular individuals within the church but more often than not there is an inordinate amount of people in church that come down hard on people regarding issues of divorce and pre marital sex, I agree everyone comes to christ with there issues but the church seems to place pre marital sex on the same level as murder or rape and I believe that is evil and it is rampant in the church all other sin is minimized and thoes that need sex but have had a few bumps in the road are ostrisized, I cant play that game anymore. There were other issues out of the bed room as well that led to the divorce such as not alowing me as the man to have control of the finances she like to give away lots of money and so when times like this come we had no savings to live off of, I got extremely lucky and kept my job while hundreds of others around me were layed off, but not saving for hard times is foolishness.

I think you minimize the importantance of sexual needs in a relationship, if you are married and someone does not want to do it thats for life not for 2 weeks or a month .... LIFE and that was not ok with me and I was not happy and the only way she said she was comming back is if I kept going to sex addict counseling I decided right then and there that I wanted to be happy in my life so I pursued a GF and a divorce, no loving spouse would put there spouse in a position of weakness by leaving and telling them there a sex addict becasue they wanted a BJ or rim job. The people who dont like OS are not for me, the problem is we talked about it before getting married and she admitted in a counseling session that she baited and switched on me, we did all thoes things for like the first 2.5 years and then she decided she did not want to anymore and I was not ok with that she lied to me in the beginning and I was suppost to be ok with that.

Anyways my issue is with the churches hardliner approach to premarital sex, you see people going to church that weigh 300 lbs and have a ding dong hanging out of there mouth and no one says anything obviously they are glutonus but no one cares but premarital sex you might as well not even show up to church especially with your GF, I am scared to take my GF to chuch even if we are married because the church is so full of prudes and I dont want them telling my new wife a bunch of crap like OS is bad like they did to my ex.

You know what I think is sadder is 2 people who stay together for the sake of an institution and are miserable for there whole lives because the church scare tactics them into staying in the institution of marriage.

Thinking about your situation rppearso I think you were wrong to try and force your wife into oral sex. Maybe she had issues in the past that you didn't know about. Wasn't there other things to do in the bedroom? Is oral sex that important? She probably wanted to please you in lots of other ways maybe? Maybe patience and love would have awakened her? There are lots of people who don't like os. I am sure there are lots of other things to do in the bedroom. Forcing anything would tend to put the other person off sex altogether. We are all different remember. I think the problem may have been your obsession with os perhaps? I don't know.

I have ready in your other writings how you are railing against the church, but if you have asked Jesus into your life you are also the church. The church is people not a building or an organisation. All who have come to Christ are part of the church whatever their faults. Your quarrel is surely with a few people in your church and not the whole church of which we are both a part.

It seems you have filed for a divorce because of the seperation so have not given any way back to solve your marriage problems. That is sad I think. A bit of patience may have helped in both situations.

Raymond

Raymond
28th March 2009, 09:30 AM
Rrpearso I don't underestimate the sexual needs within marriage. I was not saying that at all.

Are you saying it's alright to have sex outside of marriage in spite of what the bible says? It is one thing not to condemn people. Jesus showed love to the adulteress and saved her from a stoning. While not condining the sin he showed compassion to her as a person. Is that what you are saying or are you actually saying as a christian that it is alright to have sex outside of marriage?

Raymond

rppearso
28th March 2009, 08:34 PM
Im saying its evil to condemn the person, and alot of people in church find a way to manipulitivly "condemn the sin" and are really condemning the person in a round about way, no one takes into account the persons circumstances or their heart they just jump to judgement and that negitivly effects relationships. Then there is the selective condemnation of certian sin like I said in my message, someone can come in wieghting 300 lbs and drinking a liquid candy bar and no one says anything but if im having pre maritial sex I get the 3rd degree. Also I consider myself already divorced from my ex spiritually (its not my fault the state makes divorce an onerous process) and married to the person I am now with (the bible makes no mention of marriage serimonys as a requirement, my heart is not to put notches in my bed post its to find one person who treats me well and I am happy with.

Rrpearso I don't underestimate the sexual needs within marriage. I was not saying that at all.

Are you saying it's alright to have sex outside of marriage in spite of what the bible says? It is one thing not to condemn people. Jesus showed love to the adulteress and saved her from a stoning. While not condining the sin he showed compassion to her as a person. Is that what you are saying or are you actually saying as a christian that it is alright to have sex outside of marriage?

Raymond

Brotan
28th March 2009, 09:50 PM
I agree it is wrong to condemn the person. On the other hand the church also has to stand up to Biblical values and the Bible is pretty clear on marriage and on sex too (it does say that you shouldn't abstain from sex when married except to fast and pray if both parties agree)

Nonetheless it also says that you should love one another. I do not think it was right of your wife to lie to you before marriage about her sexual preferences. On the other hand were you totally open with her about what you expected from her before you married her? Basically marriage is a compromise - you needed to work with your wife to find ways to satisfy both of your needs regarding sex and anything else. The same will apply with your GF. Sex is about intimacy between two people and satisfying both parties.

To be honest I have been in many churches and seldom found people who condemn others who have premarital sex. Premarital sex is a sin as is any other sin. I would not expect the church just to accept it just as I wouldn't expect them to say: you lied, and thats ok with us... it isn't. But at the same time those church members should remember that they too have sinned and that God does not say that one sin is worse than another - they are all sins in God's eyes.

rppearso
28th March 2009, 11:25 PM
What about the fact that 2 people are considered one when they have sex, from what I could find there is no requriement of a "marriage cerimony"? I was very open about what I needed, there were some things we discoverd during the marriage that I loved and she did not and I grew to resent her for discovering such pleasure and she was going to cut me off, if my sexual needs are met im pretty flexable, I compromised ALOT in other aspects of the marriage and she could not even bend alittle on the sex, performing sex acts is not rocket science. I think the last chapter on the every mans marriage book is a huge disservice basicly stating that the woman sets the tone in the bed room, maybe if you want a divorce. I feel you are very blessed if you have not had to deal with these issues and yoru church does not condenm people. I think the bottom line is I need to find another church. Also I noticed that in alot of churchs alot of people are just straight up wierdo's its almost as if conversations about manly things are forced so what if I want to listen to some mac dre and carry a 9mm and like to have a few beers and a cigar and play some halo and lift weights I also think church is to much ritual and not enough fellowship.

Anyways I think the bottom line is I just need to find a new church and leave the past in the past

I agree it is wrong to condemn the person. On the other hand the church also has to stand up to Biblical values and the Bible is pretty clear on marriage and on sex too (it does say that you shouldn't abstain from sex when married except to fast and pray if both parties agree)

Nonetheless it also says that you should love one another. I do not think it was right of your wife to lie to you before marriage about her sexual preferences. On the other hand were you totally open with her about what you expected from her before you married her? Basically marriage is a compromise - you needed to work with your wife to find ways to satisfy both of your needs regarding sex and anything else. The same will apply with your GF. Sex is about intimacy between two people and satisfying both parties.

To be honest I have been in many churches and seldom found people who condemn others who have premarital sex. Premarital sex is a sin as is any other sin. I would not expect the church just to accept it just as I wouldn't expect them to say: you lied, and thats ok with us... it isn't. But at the same time those church members should remember that they too have sinned and that God does not say that one sin is worse than another - they are all sins in God's eyes.

Raymond
29th March 2009, 10:33 AM
I agree with everything Brotan has said.

Rppearso your words about a marriage ceremony didn't seem to fit the other things you said. You are right there is no requirement for a marriage ceremony in the bible but is is a good thing to make the statement that one is entering marriage. The act of marriage is the first coming together sexually. Therefore one should not do that if there is no commitment to enter into the marriage state. If that is not there it is called fornication.

From what I have read of your posts your whole sexual problems seem to revolve around OS and your wifes distaste for it. I am wondering if this obsession was coming from outside through things you were reading or even porn? There seems to be something more about it than the fact that you just like OS as you were even willing to divorce over it. There is a difference between a sexual like and an obsession which could put anyone off if it was always being pushed. I don't know. That's what I'm seeing.

Maybe you are right about your church. Perhaps you need to find one with more fellowship. A pretty important part if you read the scriptures.

Raymond

rppearso
30th March 2009, 02:30 AM
I would agree with your first paragraph as well, unfortunatly the church has taken the stance that a marriage cerimony is required before sex can occure (such as the engaged couple that wants to have sex, it would not be a sin for them to have sex just because they have not had there 20K wedding yet but yet it is touted as gospel when it is nothing more than church dogma). As for sexual frustration and sexual denial I liked thoes sexual things before porn and it is important to not minimize sexual satisfaction in a marriage or try to tie it to illigitimate things (porn etc) that would be like saying since your wife likes to be huged and kissed she must have read that in a romance novel, that is exactly the kind of misconception that needs to be taken out of marriage counseling, if someone has a sexual need that is not being met its a big deal and trying to make analogys that attempt to minimize that need is not helping anyone. Sexual neglect leads to depression and depression will lead to divorce. You can minimize anyones situation so you can demonize them but this is the very root of the problem in the church, that and made up rules that are based on church dogma. I think this can boil down to not enough people reading there bible or people taking the bible out of context or taking things to radical extremes, that is how cults are formed and it is very scary to see people behaving like that in churchs that you go to.

I agree with everything Brotan has said.

Rppearso your words about a marriage ceremony didn't seem to fit the other things you said. You are right there is no requirement for a marriage ceremony in the bible but is is a good thing to make the statement that one is entering marriage. The act of marriage is the first coming together sexually. Therefore one should not do that if there is no commitment to enter into the marriage state. If that is not there it is called fornication.

From what I have read of your posts your whole sexual problems seem to revolve around OS and your wifes distaste for it. I am wondering if this obsession was coming from outside through things you were reading or even porn? There seems to be something more about it than the fact that you just like OS as you were even willing to divorce over it. There is a difference between a sexual like and an obsession which could put anyone off if it was always being pushed. I don't know. That's what I'm seeing.

Maybe you are right about your church. Perhaps you need to find one with more fellowship. A pretty important part if you read the scriptures.

Raymond

Raymond
30th March 2009, 08:16 AM
I see your point about marriage. If they have sex before the ceremony then they are married.

Don't take offense about the porn. I was only looking for answers as a lot of obsession can come from things like that. If that is not the case I apologise.

Raymond

rppearso
30th March 2009, 09:26 AM
Im not upset at you, its not like I have never viewed porn before in fact I have viewed it quite a bit in the past and still do from time to time, not that its ok but it happens. Anyways, its not just you but alot of people in these christian books jump to the conclusions that it must be porn why a guy likes something sexual as a way to justify his wife not engaging in the act, why cant he just enjoy OS because thats what he likes, I dont know if you have read these marriage books and went to marriage courses in church but the sexual side of it is really biased, no where in the bible does it say its ok to deny each other sexually, in fact it says if you do you are playing with fire, if your husband likes BJ's/rimming or for his wife to swallow she should figure out what she has to do to do it not try to figure out how to get out of it (like I said its not rocket science, it really isent). I believe sexual issues are the root of many failed marriages because spouces are trying to find ways out of making there spouse happy, it would be like if the husband kept comming up with excuses why he wont take out the trash or load the dishwasher that would get really old after a while for the wife, when a man is sexually neglected he is not motivated to come home and will slowly find other things to occupy his time because his wife frustrates him, I dont know why this is such a difficult concept for people. The church has also put a stigma on sexual topics so often times in "church counseling" they are looking at symptoms of the root sexual problem becasue he may be to embarrased to talk about it. Anyhow, it was good chatting.

I see your point about marriage. If they have sex before the ceremony then they are married.

Don't take offense about the porn. I was only looking for answers as a lot of obsession can come from things like that. If that is not the case I apologise.

Raymond

Raymond
30th March 2009, 07:22 PM
Following your point about marriage I was thinking that a ceremony was good as a witness to others. Some may get the wrong idea and could be stumbled so the marriage ceremony would be also for their benefit, so one has to consider that as well. It is a way of making a public commitment, not to take away from your previous points.

I still cannot square your demand for OS in marriage. It seems to me you were excercising some kind of control about it. Do it or else so to speak.

You are right about the scripture which shows that there should not be any sexual denial between married couples. Still there is usually some kind of compromise in what a couple would do in the bedroom. I don't think you can lay down the law there.

Raymond

clockwork orange
30th March 2009, 09:01 PM
I agree with Raymond here. It seems as if all the compromise has to be in one direction towards you. Certainly doesn't sound like you are prepared to consider your wife's needs, likes and dislikes - if she won't meet yours (and quite frankly the majority of women would likely have issue with some of what you want) then she's out. Not very "husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church" - its SUPPOSED to be sacrificial in BOTH directions.

Apologies if I offend anyone, but as a woman, a wife and a Christian I could no longer hold my tongue here.

CO

rppearso
31st March 2009, 12:29 AM
I do have to say that the "husbands love your wife" is over played, this phrase can not be used as an excuse to not take care of your husband. The sacrifice is for each spouce to make there spouse happy not for one spouce to make excuses why they dont want to do something. Getting upset with me over this does not change reality, men who are neglected are not going to be happy it does not matter how much you nag them or "threaten to not hold your tongue". If you dont go into the marriage willing to do anything to make your spouce is happy then you should not be getting married, just think about it if you dont get married you dont have to worry about taking care of a husbands sexual needs. I simply have noticed a pattern in church and with the way people enable neglect, if you knew there were things you did not want to do sexually before getting married you should have brought that up with your BF before he became your husband otherwise thats not fair to him, if you change your mind later on then thats on you not him, dont play the "love your wife" card when you just baited and switched on him, he has a right to be unhappy and there is a strong posibility of divorce because there was deception in the beginning, deception is a sin, sexual neglect is a sin and in the end the guy getting the divorce is the bad guy, I dont think so.

here is a quote;

I can do the dishes myself
I can cook my own food
I can clean my own clothes
Sexually I have to rely on my wife

IF there is any area in the marriage not to flake out on its sex, all that other stuff can be worked out but if you flake out on the sex your are heading for trouble. Like wise the husband should give his wife what she needs cuddling, kissing, back rubs, saying nice things etc thoes things are not optional just like OS is not optional if your husband likes it. I think all to often people use the "love your wife" card so they can be selfish and do everything humanly possible to get out of making there husband happy and that is evil and the church supports it and that is flat out wrong, just because you dont want to do something does not mean its ok.

Do you really want to stay in a relaitonship with a man who is not happy with you? Who does not want to spend time with you because he is sexually frustrated?

I agree with Raymond here. It seems as if all the compromise has to be in one direction towards you. Certainly doesn't sound like you are prepared to consider your wife's needs, likes and dislikes - if she won't meet yours (and quite frankly the majority of women would likely have issue with some of what you want) then she's out. Not very "husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church" - its SUPPOSED to be sacrificial in BOTH directions.

Apologies if I offend anyone, but as a woman, a wife and a Christian I could no longer hold my tongue here.

CO

clockwork orange
31st March 2009, 07:34 PM
I reiterate - where is YOUR sacrifice in this? Why should your wife do something she's not particularly fond of when you obviously won't even consider the option of doing without some aspects. Perhaps you need to try having a rather large finger rammed down your throat and being asked to swallow stuff that doesn't actually taste particularly good. Then come back and tell us what you think?

rppearso
1st April 2009, 12:19 AM
The mans sacrafice is choosing a job that keeps him close to home, comming home early from work, staying home to cuddle with his wife when his buddies are having a kegger I can go on and on or sexually satisfying his wife (which should not be a sacrafice, you should want to satisfy your spouse). Im sure you like to recieve OS and women dont taste like maricino cherries.

clockwork orange
1st April 2009, 06:06 PM
No, not actually that keen on it rp. But believe me when I say that there are things I could demand be a part of our sex life because I might think they are essential - but i learn to live differently and make sacrifices for his sake. Because I love him and want his happiness first. But I am not sure you would understand that.

Raymond
1st April 2009, 07:24 PM
Changing the subject I don't think husbands love your wives can be overplayed. Everything else hangs on that.

I agree that is addressed to the husband and not the wife and therefore the wife should not say the bible says you have to love me anymore than we should say you have to be subject to me.

I don't think I would have got through without those scriptures. They are for life and need lots of thought and understanding to be worked out in our lives.

Raymond

Brotan
1st April 2009, 08:52 PM
I have followed this topic with interest because I believe that sexual issues in marriage are important. The Bible declares that too. However rp you seem to lay the blame for the failure of your marriage purely on your wifeīs lack of desire to meet your sexual`needs/wants.

Not once have you said that you could be responsible for anything and you have confessed no sins at all on here yet sprouted things you have done that go clearly against a lot that is written in the Bible. I have one question for you: you say you go to church and do not like them condemning you - are you a Christian? If so, what are your beliefs about your own responsibility as a Christian in upholding Godīs word? If you are not a Christian then what exactly are you doing on this site - are you looking to find Christ or are you looking to stir up things with Christians so that you an again say that Christians are condemning? Christians are humans, they make mistakes, they do wrong things, but they live under grace and Godīs love. The idea is that in Godīs eyes we are responsible for the choices we make and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive them - and that goes for your wife, girlfriend and yourself. The aim of Christianity is to have a relationship with God and strive to be like Christ.

I do not know what the point of your post is anymore. You have said what you came to say. God says that what you are doing is sin you cannot be married and have sex with another since you shouldn]t marry two people. Take people out of the equation and consider your own relationship with God and finally your relationship with your significant other.

rppearso
1st April 2009, 10:41 PM
I have never said what I am doing is nessicarily right but I was pushed and pushed by the church and my wife, I was attacked and labeled before my ex walked out so I dont feel I have alot of responsibility in my situation other than the fact that I am seeing someone else before im divorced but that was beside the point in my post and you totally side stepped my questions and grave concerns I have with the church as a whole, the church enabled the separation of my marriage because like you they did a double faced analysis of sex, you admited that it is important but yet you could not help yourself from minimizing it by stating "the failure of your marriage purely on your wifeīs lack of desire to meet your sexual`needs/wants" (btw there were alot of other issues in the marriage as well that I could have delt with if the sex was better) I would say thats a big deal and purposly failing to meet your spouces needs is a quick way to break down a marriage. The church is sick and im calling them out but no one listens, yea im in sin now after the church spent 1.5 years enabling my wife to break me down ultimately destroying the marriage. Im sorry if I get a little passionate about this but this is not an academic discussion to me its very real. Before my ex walked out I conceaded I was tired of going to counseling and tired of going to church so I just said you win and I studied for my engineering exam and slipped into a depression, my work is the onlything that kept me sane, she then said I was not meeting her needs and she left.

I have followed this topic with interest because I believe that sexual issues in marriage are important. The Bible declares that too. However rp you seem to lay the blame for the failure of your marriage purely on your wifeīs lack of desire to meet your sexual`needs/wants.

Not once have you said that you could be responsible for anything and you have confessed no sins at all on here yet sprouted things you have done that go clearly against a lot that is written in the Bible. I have one question for you: you say you go to church and do not like them condemning you - are you a Christian? If so, what are your beliefs about your own responsibility as a Christian in upholding Godīs word? If you are not a Christian then what exactly are you doing on this site - are you looking to find Christ or are you looking to stir up things with Christians so that you an again say that Christians are condemning? Christians are humans, they make mistakes, they do wrong things, but they live under grace and Godīs love. The idea is that in Godīs eyes we are responsible for the choices we make and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive them - and that goes for your wife, girlfriend and yourself. The aim of Christianity is to have a relationship with God and strive to be like Christ.

I do not know what the point of your post is anymore. You have said what you came to say. God says that what you are doing is sin you cannot be married and have sex with another since you shouldn]t marry two people. Take people out of the equation and consider your own relationship with God and finally your relationship with your significant other.

Brotan
3rd April 2009, 09:24 AM
Rp if you read my previous replies to this topic you will find that I did address your concerns with the church - I say again that to condemn someone based on their sin is wrong, but to NOT condemn the sin is also unbiblical. The sin remains sin, the person is Godīs creation and as a Christian under Godīs grace. I can understand that this issue is important to you, but am trying to understand what it is you want to change - what type of action would you want from: your wife, your GF, the church which would enable you to get on with your life and move on from here?

Would me condemning the churches behaviour actually help you? Would me saying that your wife should have met all your needs actually help and that she was fully to blame for the breakdown in your marriage help you to continue with your life? Regardless what happens you are going to have to make your own decisons and get on with life whether you reconcile with your wife, continue dating your GF or marry her. The problem I see is that if you do not acknowledge your own failings in your previous marriage then you are very likely to continue them in the next relationship and then wonder why that one does not work out either - your GF is a different person, she has different expectations, you however are the same person as the one separated from your wife - it is only you who can work on you to make it work in the future.

That is not to say that your wife didnīt have faults. Of course she did else she wasnīt human. But you still need to move on and you are going to take yourself with you.

Raymond
3rd April 2009, 11:22 AM
I couldn't put it better than that.

Raymond

rppearso
3rd April 2009, 05:57 PM
I have already moved on and am fine, I guess what I want to know is what would it take for the church to change there tune, 60% divorce rate, 70%, how low does it have to go before they wake up and realize they are not preaching reality, I tried to talk to leadership in church and one guy agreed with me on divorcing my wife (I was in an absolutly crazy situation) the others droned on about mission statements and you formed a covenant, God hates divorce blah blah. I guess I want to see if there are other christians out there who live in reality. The bible says each is to have there own husband and wife and if you burn with passion you are to marry and when you are married you are not to deny each other sexually, I tried to do everything by the book and when it failed becaues of my spouse (I will not take responsibility for the hard ship I was put though) I got ostrisized because I still had that burning passion but this time im a little more apprehensive (but the apprehension does not mean the passion goes away), I will eventually get married again most likely to my currant GF but im not going to jump into it tomorrow and the church needs to be understanding about that, its not like im trying to notch my bed post (They need to see the fact that I made a sincer effort, and I fell short and guess what so do they but because my issues were around sex and maybe theres was around anger or something else I get the crumby end of the stick). Another issue I have is unequal condemnation of sin, there is way to much spot light on sexual issues, its all about balance and the church does not have balance. I talked to the one guy that agreed with me and he said I was not disfellowshiped but how can I go somewhere where people look at you different (and its not just my perception I have emails from people that were hard core, no sympathy).

Either Hell was designed for humans or we are misinterpreting the bible as a collective, if Hell was not designed for humans then why would the path be so narrow? (this is a little side bar for thought, if you could answer it it would put me at ease)

Rp if you read my previous replies to this topic you will find that I did address your concerns with the church - I say again that to condemn someone based on their sin is wrong, but to NOT condemn the sin is also unbiblical. The sin remains sin, the person is Godīs creation and as a Christian under Godīs grace. I can understand that this issue is important to you, but am trying to understand what it is you want to change - what type of action would you want from: your wife, your GF, the church which would enable you to get on with your life and move on from here?

Would me condemning the churches behaviour actually help you? Would me saying that your wife should have met all your needs actually help and that she was fully to blame for the breakdown in your marriage help you to continue with your life? Regardless what happens you are going to have to make your own decisons and get on with life whether you reconcile with your wife, continue dating your GF or marry her. The problem I see is that if you do not acknowledge your own failings in your previous marriage then you are very likely to continue them in the next relationship and then wonder why that one does not work out either - your GF is a different person, she has different expectations, you however are the same person as the one separated from your wife - it is only you who can work on you to make it work in the future.

That is not to say that your wife didnīt have faults. Of course she did else she wasnīt human. But you still need to move on and you are going to take yourself with you.

Brotan
4th April 2009, 07:51 AM
I am not sure what you are asking in your aside - are you asking whether I believe that hell was designed for humans or are you asking why is it so difficult to get into heaven or is it something else? I have read your sentence many times but have not been able to figure out what you are asking. Please could you clarify this for me.

Raymond
4th April 2009, 11:48 AM
Also when you say the church that you want to put right are you talking about your church, the national church or the worldwide church?

You've got two members of the church here. How are you going to put us right?

Raymond

rppearso
4th April 2009, 08:15 PM
I was reading that hell was not designed for humans but for the devil and that God wanted us with him, if that is the case then why did he make the "path" so narrow and the process so onerous. The bible says we have forgivness through christ but then later on in the bible it presents a whole lanudry list of behaviors that will keep people out of heaven. I think either there is some gross mistranslations or misinturpretations somewhere. Also why did Jesus talk down to the samarian woman I would not think that would be a God like trait (Jew or no Jew). I do believe that the truth will set you free but I dont think any one in church is playing with the full deck not even myself. I have met one guy at work that is apart of another church and he has realistic views on the interface between the bible and real life and he is also an engineer and delt with the exact same issues I did with his ex wife so I may join his group at some point. I think studying the bible and understanding God is much like studying thermodynamics except church and the bible is wroght with peoples unbiblical opinions and emotions that detract from raw knowlage, even Jesus himself said the pharasies would stand around on the street corners and wave there hands around and engage in all sorts of rituals that is exactly what we do in church its all way to touchy feely and too little content.

I am not sure what you are asking in your aside - are you asking whether I believe that hell was designed for humans or are you asking why is it so difficult to get into heaven or is it something else? I have read your sentence many times but have not been able to figure out what you are asking. Please could you clarify this for me.