Marriage without sex

[kiki]

Hi, don't know where to start... I've been married for 3 years. My husband and I had fantastic relationships before the wedding. 4 months later he had to start a course of medication which changed our life completely. The side affect of the medication was low libido. I couldn't understand it at first. Not only had our sexual life, his personality changed as well. After a year of misery he stopped taking the tablets as they didn't help anyway. So I thought our life would be back to normal but it didn't. He still refused to have sex. I decided to talk to him again to find out where the problem is. He said that he gained the weight, felt worthless and had problems at work. I kept supporting him saying the weight wasn't an issue for me; I love him regardless how he looks. It didn't help either. He changed the workplace but still kept saying he felt ugly about himself so our intimacy was out of the question. I felt very frustrated about it, my self-esteem gone down to 0, I got paranoid about my own insecurities thinking that the root of the problem was me, that my husband was just afraid to say he didn't love me anymore. But he kept saying I was the one he loves me etc.
Time went by and nothing really changed, he didn't battle his weight, I got more irritated, my mood was changing every second. I confronted him again and again; at the end he was going in another room when he felt there will be another argument. Once he said me: "So what we don't have sex - get over it" I was crying the whole night, couldn't stop, felt so bitter.
Our third year we argued constantly, it got to the point he had 3 attempts to suicide all in the space of 6 months. After the last attempt I got very quit, don't talk to him unless he will initiate the conversation, trying to be extremely careful what I am saying. Something changed inside me. Sometimes I feel like it is a bad dream, it will all go away when I wake up. Sometimes I am trying to pretend it is not happening to me so I can swallow the bitterness of the night by working hard and studying for a degree.
I am just so confused; he is saying now that he still loves me but refuses to talk about his sexual problem. I am feeling like he kicked me out of his life and I have no choice but to leave him. I don't want to do that but I am so afraid to say a wrong word and feel like a horrible monster not a woman. I can't bear my life any more...
Do you have any idea how to save the marriage and have intimacy with my husband at the same time?

[Ageing Grace]

Hello, Kiki

You're describing a person with severe depression. Were the tablets antidepressants? They can cause low libido - but so does depression! There are masses of different types of medication for depression. I had to try 7 different combinations before we found one that works.

Please try to remember depression is an illness. The sufferer needs consideration, just as if they had a physical illness. It can be treated, and it does get better.

If you can get an appointment with a psychiatrist for the medication review, so much the better. If not, your GP can definitely help although some need a bit of encouragement (you can find loads of info about treatments on the Web). A therapist would also be a big help to him. That could cost money.

It's very hard to be the partner of a depressive. You must feel like you're wading through sticky mud a lot of the time! Please try to bear with it, just as you would if he had heart disease or something. He WILL get better, and you can help by gently persuading him he's ill and needs treatment.

A friend of mine has recently been through this - with a very happy ending, I'm glad to say! Her husband would NOT accept that he was ill, but she finally got through to him when she suggested he pick up an old hobby of his (he loves rebuilding vintage cars). He became totally obsessed with the car and then said one day, out of the blue, "You think I'm mad, don't you?" Not mad, she said, but overstressed ... you need to see the doctor. He's totally back on form now, and they're more in love than ever :)

I'm afraid that getting angry about the lack of sex won't help at all. It only adds to his self-criticism. He probably wants cuddles more than sex right now! Try to keep up your physical closeness, and as for the rest ... well, that's what vibrators are for ;)

Please try reading up on the internet about depression. You'll find support forums for people in your position, too. By the way, libido DOES come back with proper treatment :D

Wishing both of you well,
AG

[Raymond]

AG is right if it is depression. If that was the case the path to good sex would be through the healing of the depression.

You say that things were great before he started the medication so why did he start the medication. What was it for?

Raymond

[yogamad]

Hi Kiki

I don't know if you've read any of my thread but my H was on anti depressants after a severe breakdown which led to a lack of libido (we've always had a great sex life before this). This was a year ago and he's never been the same since.

I haven't really got any advice because I'm still going through it but just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and know what it's like.

YM

[Raymond]

So the sex drive did not come back even he got off them Yogamad? That's a big cost on a marriage. Of course anti depressants will not deal with the roots of a problem only ease the syptoms at the worse time. I prefer sex myself.

Raymond

[kiki]

Hi, thanks for the support.
My husband sometimes has severe headaches (physical reason, not mental), so he thought taking the course of tablets will reduce it. As I said it didn't help at all. The headaches come and go. I guess we have to live with it. AG has suggested cuddle would help more than sex... He doesn't want anything - no kissing cuddling, touching. Sometimes (when he probably gets fed up) he pushes me away when I am trying to cuddle him. And even if it is depression - he admits it but doesn't want to do anything about it! This makes me so frustrated...
Lately his GP said that the weight has something to do with it. Do you think he started dieting or exercising - no. He keeps saying that one day his mind will set up and he starts exercising. What about me? What if this day will be in 5 years time? So I still have to wait patiently? Does he really love me then if he knows how much pain I have to go through with him?

[yogamad]

Hi Raymond, I did ask H a while ago why he doesn't want to have sex anymore and he told me that he doesn't feel close to me so at least I have an answer and know what the reason is. It was a combination of the anti depressants and his depression that caused his low libido, plus the fact that we weren't getting on. As you know, I'm trying hard to rebuild the closeness and I'm hoping it will all come right in the end.

Sorry Kiki, for talking about my problems on your thread. I would also like cuddles, hugs, kisses, not just the sex but there's nothing yet. My H is also overweight (about 2 stone) which doesn't help his confidence but, like your H, has he done anything about it - no!

H and I have just spent a lovely evening, talked so much our youngest son told us to be quiet because he couldn't here the TV. When kids were in bed we carried on talking, I gave him my undivided attention and it felt lovely. He is normally in bed by 10 pm (gets up earlier than me for work) and he's only just gone to bed now so I'm presuming that he enjoyed it too.

I've not mentioned intimacy to H at all, just working on closeness and communicating at the moment and spending more time together. Maybe that's something you could work on Kiki, rather than focussing on your lack of cuddles/sex. I'm hoping that eventually our sex life will be back on track but it's going to take a long time. Like you, I keep thinking what if we're still like this in five years time. I really can't imagine the thought of never having sex ever again - I'm not even 40 yet!

Take care.
YM

[Raymond]

I suspect that the sex drive in both these cases won't come back without a little effort on the part of the men. Closeness is good, but I find that sex increases the closeness. I know the relationship has to be close and open but sex is actually a help in this.

A lot of the reasons for the lack of sex in the male is because of porn or solo MB. I trust that isn't the case here.

In Kikis case I suspect it has got to the stage that the husband feels threatened by it like a kind of fear of lack of performance. In that case it can be got back with not pressurising and trying simple things with plenty of time and no condemnation for lack of performance. To do nothing is not an option here. Hoping things will change is not enough, we have to be doing something towards what we are hoping for.

I know it doesn't help saying this to the wives as the husbands have to hear it but if there is a will in the husbands there is a way back. Both cases will be different I know.

The following is a link which may help the problem.

http://themarriagebed.com/pages/problem/desire/lackdesire.shtml

Raymond

[yogamad]

Wise, as usual, Raymond. In my case H is definitely not looking at porn and isn't interested in solo masturbation, he's just not interested full stop. I agree, I can try to help but he has to want to have sex eventually. I just keep hoping he will one day.

Up to a year ago I think we would both say our sex life was fantastic, we've never had any problems at all. I remember saying to him once that I didn't like having sex if we argued the next day and ended up not speaking, it would make me feel not degraded, I don't know how to describe it, but very upset that we had been so intimate and then ended up not even speaking to each other. This may be having some impact on how he's feeling now.

I wish we could've just tried to talk about our problems but everytime we did we ended up arguing and not speaking. I'm not giving up though, I feel I'm learning things on this site all the time and it's giving me the strength to keep going.

Sorry, Kiki, I've rambled on again on your thread. Hope you are ok.:o

[Raymond]

Most women feel like you Yogamad. Relationship is essential regarding sex. I have had to learn this as a man and change. I have become the same now. I can't have sex after an argument. Probably because I have learned how she will be feeling about it. If she doesn't enjoy it I can't so good realtionship is essential.

Your answers lie in this area. It sounds if your husband works that way. i.e. Having good relationship will help revive the hugs and sex again.

Raymond

[yogamad]

I think you're right there, Raymond. I've said to H that I can't feel close to him without the sex/cuddles but he said he can't have sex/cuddles until he feels close to me.

Last night in bed instead of just saying "goodnight" I said "goodnight (and used my pet name for him which I haven't used in ages because it doesn't feel right). I felt nervous saying it (how stupid is that?) but I did because I want us to feel close to each other again. He replied using his pet name for me and then, as if just realising he'd said it but didn't mean to, he said "night" in a monotone kind of voice. Do you think that's a small step in the right direction for us?:)

[Raymond]

Sounds like he let his guard down a bit then felt uncomfortable. One cannot read too much into it, but at least he responded for a second. Time will tell. Keep working on it but don't pressurise.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Thanks for writing back, Kiki :)

Everything you're saying shouts "Depression". I'm very sorry that this eems so, especially as you seem to have a very unhelpful GP.

When a person has lost all sense of colour & feeling in their life, being told they're too fat just adds to their overall sense of pointlessness. Many of us, when we feel 'empty' inside, try to get some kind of inner feeling going with food and drink. It doesn't work - but, by that time we're feeling so lost and desperate, we keep on trying. We get fat, then we feel even more rubbish about ourselves. I have done this; so have thousands of others.

You can't kill the depression by killing the symptoms, unfortunately. If you could make a depressed overeater thin - you'd end up with a depressed anorexic!

I haven't got time or space, here, to go into the whole neurological explanation. You can read up on it quite easily; this is as good a place to start as any: http://www.depression.com/

Clinical depression is a whole-body syndrome. I had it really bad for about 3 years. I was physically disabled in every way. I couldn't hold a conversation with anybody - I found myself so repulsive that I shrank away from people, assuming they also found me repulsive. I was further hampered by the "pull yourself together" school of thought. For god's sake, if I could have pulled myself together, I would have done!

In fact, that's a good enough descriptor of the sickness. Nobody chooses to live a life without colour or meaning. Nobody chooses a living death - and that's what it's like. I remembered my Sunday school lessons on purgatory. That's where I was :( :(

There is good news. Most depressions lift spontaneously after about three years. Personally, I wouldn't bank on that: mine lasted a hell of a lot longer (and I was in hell). But it's still nice to know the human spirit can - and usually does - win out!

At the end of the day, there are medications that help hugely. I'm still on supposedly extreme doses of antidepressants, but they help me a lot - and, as I think I told you, it took seven goes before we found a combination that works. More importantly - I think - if you can find a decent therapist, you can start to deal with the hidden demons that caused the thing in the first place.

The most quickly-effective form of therapy is called CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy). It helps to get you past the "I'm crap because I'm rubbish" type of thinking, which made you sick. It is highly effective.

In many cases, you need more therapy on top of that - to help you figure out why you think you're rubbish - and the right medication, to help rebalance your system.

There are lots of links to CBT on the web. The address RedNed gave you, http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/learning_path.htm, is one good way of appreciating the illness & the various routes to recovery. There are a few fantastic CBT courses available free on the web, too. My favourite one is here - http://moodgym.anu.edu.au It's an online CBT course; I do it every couple of months!

It is completely horrid to be living with a partner who has no life; no feeling; no purpose, Kiki. I feel for you: where's your reward in all this? You must feel stretched to the limit.

What I can tell you is this: We remember the kindness of people who cared about us in our dark & creepy times, and they are few & far between! It DOES get better - often all by itself :)

We're so lonely and so full of self-hatred, during our bad time: we pine for acceptance, but we can't accept it because we think of ourselves as the worst slime that ever crawled the earth. When we recover, we surely remember the few who were kind & understanding - like angels of mercy.

I'm not going to suggest you stick with him, because it is a very difficult syndrome to live with. Perhaps you don't want to be an angel - who would? But ... maybe you can point him in the direction of better help than he's been getting so far. That alone will probably earn you a halo :p

Meanwhile, remember you're lovely. Give yourself good care & consideration!

AG :)

Added:

Headaches? Along with weight change & mood change? Shouldn't your GP should be sending him for a brain scan? Or at least a thyroid/diabetes test. Just in case ...
Your man sounds exactly like a depressed person, but your doctor's not even taking that seriously. What with the headaches as well, my GP would be playing 'better safe than sorry'.

Sack your doctor!!