My husband no longer loves me

[JWD]

We got up as normal Saturday, he kissed me and told me he loved me. I came home Sat night and he told me that he didn't think he loved me, he was sorry but it had been a gradual thing but can't tell me why or when he started to feel like that. I'm totally gutted, I feel physically sick, I haven't eaten since sat lunch time and have had about 6 hours sleep.

I asked if there was anyone else and he said no, he said he hadn't been thinking about anyone else either. i then thought he maybe didn't find me attractive anymore but says thats not true either.

He said he would leave and I begged him to stay which he did but I kept asking him stuff and he said he needed space and time to think so he has been sleeping in the spare room.

I don't know how I'm ever going to ever handle this. I don't want to handle it. We've always had the relationship that everyone else said they wished they had. We always have such a real proper laugh together, he gets down about his work but I help him through it.

On Monday night I asked if he was maybe just depressed about work but he said that it's the other way round and work is less stressful than living a lie in our marriage. I just can't understand it at all. He started his new job last week and loves it so has he just discovered that it's not his job and it is me after all.

I asked him to come to marriage guidance with me and he said he would think about it but that got me really upset and I said I wanted to try save our marriage, eventually he said he hoped he could save it but I feel it was just to shut me up.

For the first time in five years (married 2 and half year) we didn't say love you at night. He used to say I made everything all better.

He said he wanted space to I didn't text him at all yesterday, we had dinner together even though I couldn't eat it and watched tv together, I then said I was going to bed as I wanted to show that I was giving him space. He looked surprised but when I said do you need to talk he said no. I didn't feel that he wanted me to kiss him so I patted his hand like some stranger. I'm gutted that I haven't noticed there was a problem. I hate the fact that he's been unhappy and I maybe haven't supported him. I just do not know what to do. I'm scared now to talk because I don't want the wrong answer. I'm not ready to face it yet. I am going to see a therapist myself today and haven't told him as I don't want to pressure him. I can't understand it, I've never moaned about his football trips, pub etc, we usually go out every friday or sat night and eat out once per week during the week. I'm so so sad and feel like i'm in limbo.

[Raymond]

Sad to hear about this JWD. It is quite common on here. I always believe personally that these things can be worked through as love is more than just a feeling it is also a commitment. When we completely go by our feelings they can ebb and flow but a love expressed in commitment pulls one through. Love can be got back and the marriage can be worked on, but if we believe our feelings only instead of honouring our commitment to love we lose the motivation to do anything about it. Marriage should be much more solid than that in my view.

This has to come from him though. Are you sure there is no one else? I think he is confused personally. All you can do at the moment is continue loving him even if that means giving him his space in the hope that he comes to himself and sees sense. Keep posting.

Raymond

[JWD]

Thank you for the reply. I really don't think there is anyone else. We spend most evenings together. The only thing I can think of is that he may have feeling for someone else and that this is upsetting him or that he maybe wants to finish with me before starting a new relationship.

He came into my room this morning and said he would be back tonight and did I want anything for dinner. He didn't kiss or hug me but was nice enough.

WHat you say about marriage is true, I discussed with him how important my vows were (before we married) and we both said we believed we could work it out. Even though he has been married before(she left him) he wasn't devastated by her leaving him and I asked if he would have taken her back and he said no that when someone throws in the towel like that and leaves there could be no going back. Doesn't look good for me then eh?.

I feel like such a weakling as I really can't face going to work this week or next. I know it will take my mind off it but need time to get my head round it. I just want to understand how someone can do this to someone they at least once loved. As far as i'm aware l've always been here for him. He has come into a lot of money recently and this was going to help us off mortgage and invest for our future, we talked about what to do with it. I feel like i'm the loose end in his life that he's clearing up. He lost a fortune with his greedy ex so I can't imagine why he's doing this again not that I would be entitled to his money as he did all the hard work for it. Just mean that nothing at all makes any sense to me right now.

Thanks for listening.

[Raymond]

Sounds like someone through in the towel on him and now he is toying with the idea of doing it to you.

You are one to honour your marriage vows JWD and that is very precious in my mind. My wife is just like you. Fortunately I am the same and take the vows very seriously. It is not just a vow to stay married but a vow to love on my part. I find that right decisions produce the right feelings and that's the way round it should be. If he is not of this mind it can be tricky and a lot of people cut loose just because there is no commitment and because of a feeling at the time. The next field always looks greener but that is often a deception discovered too late.

I really hope he can turn around so you can both work together on your marriage. Who knows what is going on in his head and whether he has affection for someone else?

All you can do really is to hope for the best but be ready for the worst.

It is not always something you have done. This does seem to happen a lot. Women can often give a reason when they do it but a lot of men haven't even got a good reason, although it often turns about to be another woman, which doesn't seem to be the case here. I really hope he does a turnaround and sees the light.

Raymond

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

I have been on the receiving end of something like this recently too, and know how you feel. It is truly awful but you will get through it.

Like Ray says it will all come down to whether he has the commitment to try to make it work, or the desire to walk away. I hope for you that he honours his vows and tries his hardest for you both to have a happy future together.

However, in the meantime you really need to take care of yourself. See your doctor and get signed off work, take some time away, if you can, to give him the space but to also make him see what he would be missing. Use your friends and family as much as you can, to talk and hug and cry, and keep posting on here as it can really help to have a response from people in the same situation, even if it is just a friendly hello sometimes.

BTW if you do split up and divorce you would be entitled to 1/2 his money so you're not a loose end!! If he does walk away don't be a doormat for him to walk over on the way out. Be strong and make yourself a new and exciting life.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Thank you both, your kind words mean so much.



Well I went for some serious shopping therapy today and I bought 4 pairs of jeans, four tops and a bag. I've lost 7lbs since Sunday so felt good getting into jeans that were loose.

I ended up ringing the therapist's door half an hour early and he took me in. He had tissues and water waiting for me and I just began and off loaded about every little detail that I scrutinize from start to finish about our relationship since we met. Cried loads and loads then got angry, we got off topic slightly, then back on (was funny) was only supposed to be there an hour but ended up two hours and he refused to take the money for the second hour. He feels that H has been unhappy from even before we met as in finds it hard to express exactly what is wrong with him. He reckons it's depression but thinks I should not say that to him.

He thinks he is at a pressure point what with all the change re job, house, immigrating ( another idea he had last year). We discussed how I felt about it and he thinks that because I wasn't so keen on moving even though I would have, that because it's hard to do it now because of the housing market that this is the trigger for what has happened. I had him to try this new job first before we made such a massive decision in case it was just a change that he needed. Councillor still said that it might be an affair or that he did simply not love me but that It wasn't my fault.

We discussed things I had even forgotten about and quite a lot of stuff surfaced that annoyed/worried me about stevie's behaviour too. By giving him this back ground, he felt that stevie has maybe felt that I wasn't hearing how he felt about immigrating. He explained how men and women think and communicate differently by proven studies etc. I came out still sad that this has happened but 1000 times better. I know I could end up sad again soon but I'll cope with it better I think. I still need to give him plenty of space so that is what I'm doing.

On the bus home h called to ask where I was and if I was coming home for tea. He had also sent a text which I hadn't noticed. I had to delete his mobile no earlier in case I caved and bombarded him with texts.

When I arrived at the door he jumped up to answer it like he always does and he had made us dinner, a starter and main meal. I ate a little bit but threw most away but he didn't see as I didn't want it to look like I'd just not bothered. I said thanks, you made lovely effort here but he immediately said it's was no effort like he didn't want it to look like he was giving me the wrong impression. We sat up watching tv together for a while and then he went to bed. I said night and said if you want to chat about anything (doesn't need to be about us) then I'm here for you and I'll listen better than I have. He smiled.

Councillor said that I maybe need to listen more too so that's what I'm going to try do. I'm not going to mention that I've been, I'll wait a while. Councillor also said that while it's going to be hardest thing not to question him, I can't become a door mat. I'm still dreading the weekend incase he stops out all night so I'll either stay with a friend or make sure I'm out.

I've made an appointment with the Dr on Friday . Think I will manage some sleep tonight as I'm mentally and physically exhausted.

Thanks for reading anyone who got past the second paragraph :)

[jools]

My heart goes out to you JWD. All that you've said sounds so similar to what happened to me. In the end I was convinced that it was due to depression - although everything I read said that this pattern is usually due to them having met someone else. I refused to believe this - but sadly it proved to be the case. It usually is. I know it's not what you want to hear and there's a slight chance that it might not be the case but it's the most likely reason for his behaviour. If there is someone else just don't expect him to admit it - no matter how truthful he has been previously - they hardly ever do. It's often left to us to find out. Hope i'm wrong but it's the usual reason.
Jools

[JWD]

Thanks for the reply jools. It's going through my head too. I really had to stop myself bursting in the room so pathetic but I just really want a hug from him. :(

He got up there and for a second I though he might come in but he didn't. I'm just not sure how long to give it before asking if he has thought about us.

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Well done for all the positive things you have done! They are really good and once you get some forward momentum each step becomes that little bit easier.

One small note of caution from my experience was that after seeing the counselor for the first few times i came out feeling euphoric almost from the relief of actually understanding the situation a lot better. What came after that for me was the difficult task of admitting the truth behind it all. It is hard but it must be done to really move on. I'm not trying to bring you down, it would have helped me i think to have that small note of caution though to know it is all part of the process.

Being good to yourself with the shopping is really great too! Take care of yourself you really do deserve it.

Dave

[JWD]

Thanks Dave and you're right, I know I may not like what h has to say if and when he does. I looked at a thread earlier and I'm sure it was you who had posted a seperation rules type thing. Can't seem to find it now. Can you point me in the right direction please?

Edit Found it

[JWD]

Still can't sleep. That's 24 hrs since I last got 3hrs.

I can hardly believe this is me on this forum. Only last week I was discussing with a friend how people don't work enough at marriage or relationships and practically bragging about how wonderful and perfect my husband was and our relationship was. Oh we discuss everything and are best friend I said. What a joke. Maybe we were too friendly?

Yesterday was the first time in around five years that we didn't text each other. We used to send morning xx texts if I was early shift and he wasn't awake when I left.

Wish I could be knocked out for a few weeks or however long he needs and wake up when he's ready to say he wants to try save our marriage.

I feel all shy around him now. I undressed tonight in the bathroom as quickly as I could so he would see me :o yet at least twice a week we used to share a big bubble bath. I have such a sense of loss it's crippling.

It's funny the emotions, a few hours ago I wanted to hug him then half an hour ago wanted to burst in a punch him, now I'm numb again.

right, I'm going to try sleep. I shall post tomorrow with my cheery witterings:)

[Raymond]

Hope you had a good sleep JWD. You said you were dreading the weekend in case he stops out all night. Has he stopped out all night before? You know what I'm getting at.

Raymond

[JWD]

Morning raymond. I managed about 5 hours.

No he hasn't. last month he csme in at 5 that was the first time ever, I was in bed and he came in and I said what time is it and he said 5. Said he fell asleep in pal's house. I remember saying it must be all the stress and he said yeah.

Friday there he came home at two but when I went downstairs and said I was worried about you he showed me that his mobile had gone flat and he gave me a big cudddle and said sorry. If i go out with the girls it'snot unusual for me to come home around two either if I've went back to a friends.

I'm desperate to check his emails but think it shows on his phone?

He came in there to say he was going to gym after work. Didn't mention dinner or anything. I didn't say anything. This is the kind of stuff that annoys me. How can he go to gym or go out etc while i'm in limbo here.

Also, his mum has never once called to see how I am. I know it's awkward for her but even just to say she's thinking about me would be nice. I spoke to her the first night it happened and she was upset but rational. She had spoken to him and said he told her there was no one else so that makes me think she now knows there is and doesn't want to lie to me.

I'm supposed to not think about that just now as I don't know anything for sure but it's constantly in my head.

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Sounds like you're having a tough start to the day. I have no idea whether your fella is doing anything wrong. So far from what you've said i can't see any real evidence of it, but i do tend to think the best of people so may be completely wrong.

Feeling like you are in limbo is truly awful, the weeks that i had feeling like that were a constant physical and mental pain. It does get easier. One way to get through is to take control of the things that you can. If you need to talk to his Mum then just phone her, if you're wondering about dinner, cook yourself a favourite or go to a friends for a takeaway.

If you just cannot deal with not knowing things it's probably best to just arrange a time for you and your partner to sit down and go through it all. If he admits something terrible or you hear answers you're not ready for at least you'll know. If you ask him difficult questions and he doesn't like it then that's his problem, not yours. You deserve the truth.

Hope your day improves,

Dave

[JWD]

Thanks, I don't know what to do for the best. Should I email him how i'm feeling, send a text asking if we would be able to talk tonight about councelling? or wait

[Raymond]

It depends on what he wants. Counseling is for those who want to work on and keep their marriage. Does he actually want that?

Raymond

[dave123]

Hi,

By arranging a time to talk i think this gives both parties a chance to prepare for the subject matter and for your partner to not feel pushed into talking when he may not be ready.

Email/txt asking for a suitable quiet time where you've both got an hour to sit down, and then work out what you need to say to him, or what you want to know. If you want you both to go to counseling i'd raise it at the meeting and then come away and allow both of you time to reflect on what you've spoken about or heard.

Emailing or writing a letter can really help i think to get things out of your system but i feel they lack human response, seeing you saying these things in person will be much more powerful and meaningful than an email in my opinion, it just depends on what you want to do.

Just because he is being distant doesn't mean you need to pussyfoot around, take some control back, and try to be positive for yourself!

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

It depends on what he wants. Counseling is for those who want to work on and keep their marriage. Does he actually want that?

Raymond

I don't know yet, his mum came round and was lovely, she was crying too. Feel bad for her, she said she loves us both very much and wants to help us get over it. She doesn't think that he will go to counselling and is worried he is going to become ill.

I sent H text asking if he wanted anything for tea, he sent back that I could get him baguette he would get himself something, then sent another text saying that if I wanted to wait he would make me something when he got back to gym. Anyway I sent text saying I wonder if you would like to go for a pizza, I said just to relax a bit and get out the house. I added that we didn't need to chat about us and that no pressure if he wasn't so keen. Also said i'd meet him there, like a date kinda. If he doesn't want to then i'll just reply no bother, another time.

You're right dave about email not being personal. I'll give it more time.

Thanks again guys, I'm being selfish and not asking how you two are getting on.

How are you managing now Dave, read your thread.

[Raymond]

Sounds if your husband is going through a rough patch JDW which may throw light on some of his thoughts about marriage recently. I think you are playing it well and have a good attitude. People tend to make bad decisions when they are down so I hope it is due to that and not what he really wants.

Raymond

[JWD]

I really think he is Raymond. He sent back text saying sorry, i'm not my best I's rather come home so I just replied no problem, another time.

Went out there to get some shopping and bought a book called 'it's called breakup because it's broken. There were about 10 of us at the self help section all looking for answers lol. Bought myself a wee love crystal and a guardian angel of love, romance & affection. I'm going to try slow right down and control my thoughts for at least an hour at a time.

[JWD]

Back again, I was reflecting on my negative behaviour too and found myself going back to something that happened months before we married.


I found out H had visited a strip club whilst on a football weekend (before we married), found out through another wife, anyway I asked him and he said they hadn't then asked a few weeks later and he admitted it. I was really shocked, didn't think he would do that. I'm no prude but the thought of men /women going to these things makes me feel sick. So sleezy. Also in these places they went, you never know if it's been forced on these young girls.

More to the point though was the lie. Couldn't believe he lied. I can hand on heart say that I never, ever lie. Got big issues with it because of my Mother long story). Anyway I later found out that H was the one who always arranged on weekends away to go to these clubs and they went all the time. I was embarrassed because it was another wife of someone who told me and she was very bitchy about it to me. Said something like your H is a sleaze bag and this made me upset because I just idolized him then as much as I did til last week.


I did kind of go on and on about it and again he lied then admitted it. Said I had made a big deal of it and that if it upset me so much he wouldn't do it. Of course I never believe him now when he goes away although I have never asked him since well over 18months so not sure if that's the start of his feeling changing for me. I was so disappointed he lied. I know he's human and makes mistakes, maybe I was just too irrational about the whole thing. I truly don't believe he would lie again as it caused so much friction for a few months. I would bring it up sometimes and we'd argue but we always made up.

Guess its wearing constantly reassuring someone you haven't done something but then don't lie not once, twice but three times. I also should probably not have asked him things I knew would distress me. I thought maybe he felt he couldn't lose face with the other guys but he was actually arranging them.

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

First off don't worry about responding to me on here unless you feel you can or want too. Initially i felt like a bit of a fraud responding to other posts because how could i possibly help? Now i feel as though just a view from outside can help, and a kind word every now and again.
There are other people on here seemingly much more qualified to help, but i'm happy to add my bit just in case it helps someone.

Well done for buying the book, and it sounds like you are coping really well with the uncertainty behind dinner this evening. It might sound petty but coping with even little let downs and changes can initially be so very hard, so well done!

I have my own opinion on the "lads" kind of nights but respect anyone elses right to choose their own actions. The men choose to go, the women choose to dance, obviously the idea of forcing anything like that on someone is immoral but i'm not sure how prevalent that is. The reason your man may have lied to you is the worry that you would judge him badly over it when he seemingly feels like that it is a non-issue, or maybe embarrassment and shame.

The lie is unacceptable, especially when repeated, but generally people accept some men do do these things from time to time. If you do get the chance to go to counseling together or alone, you could try to get to the bottom of why he lied, and explain how you feel about the lie and the behaviour. The lack of trust that has built up definitely sounds like a problem here.

Take it easy this evening, i hope things improve for you,

Take care,

Dave

[Raymond]

You do give good advice Dave and are honest and humble with it.

JWD are you saying he still goes to strip clubs now or is it a thing of the past? It does betray an instability there I feel.

Raymond

[JWD]

Thanks Dave.

Raymond, he doesn't go to trips as much and assures me that he doesn't go to the clubs. I try to trust and not ask him but it's always in my mind.

Went to Dr, she was lovely and gave me zopiclone to sleep although she doesn't want me to take them every night. Gave me another week off. She thinks I'm worries about the house etc and felt that I really didn't have much clue as where I would go, what I'm entitled to etc so she thinks I should go along to a solicitor just to know my rights. She is helping her sister through it so she kept saying to me even though it's early days and that I'm not thinking about the house to go. She said no matter how amicable he was being it's best I know my rights. Think she is talking from experience.

I came home and took a tablet as I was so desperate to sleep. Been sleeping since 10 am and H just came in to wake me and 4pm. He said a friend is over from Spain and would I mind if he met him in the pub. I just said of course not. He then was making small talk about his day and asked me about mine. I said do you think you need a little more time like a couple of weeks and he said yes then said we would have dinner tomorrow. I said we could go out but then remembered it was valentines day so he said we'll just have it here.

He again asked if I needed money, said no but maybe I should star stashing it :)


Thanks for listening.

[Hilary]

Hi JWD

I am very sorry to hear you are going through difficult times and I would like to say how great it is that you are looking at everything that relates to your marriage.

It seems as if you are making lots of changes in your behaviour that might not be conducive to the best outcomes. Why stop all texting when you used to do it so regularly? Why stop getting undressed in front of him and then feeling bereft by the loss of the connection with him? Why didn't you ask if he was going to be home for dinner so you could make plans either way?

I wouldn't feed the separation. He might need to disconnect but you don't have to feed it to the extent you lose a sense of yourself. I don't mean bombard him with texts - but one a day that shares something positive or asks for information would be fine. I don't mean flaunt yourself in front of him when you are getting undressed (unless he is positive and you want to), but you don't have to go to the bathroom.

I wouldn't text anything that brings up the things that are distancing you, so I wouldn't mention counseling in a text unless you have discussed it previously and he is OK with it.

You say: "He came in there to say he was going to gym after work. Didn't mention dinner or anything. I didn't say anything. This is the kind of stuff that annoys me. How can he go to gym or go out etc while i'm in limbo here." Well why shouldn't he? If you are not talking then how would he know you were in limbo? Or that it was concerning you? He doesn't think like you and nor you like him.

And I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that there was someone else in the picture either. He might just be in a double bind. He might have been giving you 2 messages and you heard only one, or you might have done the same. then only one of the needs gets met and the other is missing. This drives a great big wedge into a relationship - and the problem is that neither of you is consciously aware of it until you start really exploring what is going on.

Raymond - would you repeat here what you have put elsewhere - about how we could/should show how we love someone - everyone is different - some need to be touched, some need little acts of service, etc. and we need to show love the way our partner needs to receive it, not what we want.

JWD, it might be as simple as that. (Probably not, but it is a good place to start and you are unlikely to get it wrong.)

Go well and look after yourself.

[JWD]

I see what you are saying but I'm not talking about it because he wants space.

I'm talking to him but he doesn't initiate conversation very much,

I do appreciate your reply, just worried he is not coming home tonight

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Just a quick idea for tonight. Wait til he's out, get a girlfriend around for a takeaway and a bottle of wine, and then take on of you sleeping pills and go to bed. Worrying about something that might not happen is no good for you right now.

Looking at the big picture, in 6 months time when things are either all over or you're together and happy again, will tonight really matter either way?

Try to relax and take good care of number 1. You're the only person who can really look after yourself, so be kind to yourself!!

Dave

[JWD]

Good idea dave although I can't trust myself with alcohol right now but I will make sure I'm not hanging around.

He came back at 3am, he kept saying sorry and I asked what for, he said for waking you. I said it;'s ok but I was worried about you, you usually text when you're out. He said he knows how difficult this is for me but he needs more time, he's not in a good place right now but that we will set some boundaries???.

I told him I loved him very much and that I can see where Ive gone wrong but he just shook his head and said now wasn't the time to talk as he's been drinking.

Before that I asked if he was upset that he perhaps had feeling for someone else and he said that was the last thing on his mind right now and that he would never do anything that horrible to me.

So back to being just 'unlovable' which makes me feel so sad, the fear that I lost him to someone else has been replaced with a horrible overwhelming sadness and sense of loss and him saying it's not my fault doesn't make it easier.



I'm going for a haircut today to cheer me up.

[Raymond]

Seems to be a mystery going on here for you JWD. Give him enough slack and you will find out eventually. You are doing well. You are wise not to touch alcohol when you can't trust yourself. It can create more problems than answers sometimes.

The trouble I sense is that he has lied in the past so one cannot be certain on some of the things he is saying. It seems that you have to live on a companionship level at the moment and don't know what's around the corner. Best thing is to get on with the things at hand and be good to yourself as others have suggested. Sometimes a woman's instincts are correct but only sometimes. Certainly being anxious and worried is not going to do you any good so you must take on the opposite spirit and do what you have to do in your life. You are needing patience here as it is not so apparent what is going on.

Raymond

[Raymond]

There you go Hilary:

Touch is important to her, hugs etc. It wasn't natural to me so I had to learn it and did. If that is one of your love languages then she is putting herself out to learn it. That says an awful lot. Perhaps you can learn what her love language is. We all have them. They are, Physical Touch, (not talking about sex here) Words of Affirmation, Act of Service, Receiving Gifts (Doesn't have to be big. It's the thought that counts) and Quality Time.

One of those will be her prime love language. Although you may love her it will be perceived more acutely when you use her primary love language (as you have opportunity of course, timing is important). How do you feel when she hugs you? You feel love because that is one of your prime love languages. You could feel rejected if she never did it. These are little things but very important.

[JWD]

Well we sat outside burning some stuff and I told him I went to the counsellor. I said I was embarrassed that I had to but he said it was a good idea. He will come along but not just yet.

I also told him I had bought a relate book which was more geared towards him as it was about why YOU'VE fallen out of love. He said he would read it. I didn't want to push further so we chatted some more about general stuff and I said something that made him really laugh and he held my gaze for a bit.

He went out there to but me some fruit and is making me a fruit salad.
Tomorrow he will be away all day so my friend is taking me out for the day.

I'm realise I have been posting every though, action, feeling and I know you are not mind readers, it just helps getting it all out. You're all wonderful. A very selfish part of me feels that I'm the only one going through this and my situation in worse because how could anyone feel at as awful as I do. Obviously it's not true and people have been through it and survived , so I take a little comfort in that.

[Ageing Grace]

Hi, JWD.

You're doing sterling work here, with going to counselling and posting to this forum and the treats for yourself. You're in such a difficult situation and you really are going about everything in the best possible way - I wish you all strength & good luck :)

You said something earlier that made me wonder: have you always slept in seperate rooms?

Hope you manage to have a relaxing evening - and enjoy your girls' day out tomorrow!

AG

[JWD]

Hi AG, no we've never slept apart unless he is away a footie weekend. We always go to bed together. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster, he fondly touched my arm earlier and I was elated, now, he's just gone to bed. I know I need to be the person he fell in love with so I've packed in all the weeping eyes. This is so so hard. He said we'd talk middle of the week but now I'm frightened that it will be to confirm he no longer loves me and as much as I need to know one way or another I'm not ready. Also I'll beat myself up thinking maybe if I gave him more time. Oh god this is awful.

|He made a lovely dinner. First I've eaten properly in a week. I was really hungry but could only eat half and now I feel like I'm going to be sick.

Wish someone would just take away the pain and confusion. I'd do anything right now for him to run in and say he's made a mistake and he adores me. Just like he used to up until a week ago.

Thanks for the good wishes.

[Ageing Grace]

Thank you so much for your reply, JWD. This is all so hard for you, and confusing! With apologies for sounding like your Granny ... you must eat! All the emotional strength you're expending has to come from somewhere!

It's cool that you now have an "appointment to talk". Well, cool in the current context :( Dave's advice was perfect; try to have your agenda written down and bulleted - in your head at least - by the time you do sit down together. Is your shopping pal for tomorrow a friend you trust? Could be a good start to ask her for some input while you figure it out.

Do your best to enjoy your day ... taking care of yourself, physically & socially, is priority right now.

AG xx

[JWD]

Hi, my friend is great but she just keeps saying he's playing head games and having an affair. She is in a totally destructive relationship so she thinks all men are the same. She lets me cry though and she loves me and I know she will be here for me if the worst happens.

I pray to God I get a second chance. I can see areas where I've gone wrong and I want to show that I can change. I feel I deserve a second chance or I'll forever wonder.

I think I will write down a few things.

[Sheila]

I really feel for you, Im going through exactly the same thing, I could have written your email.
I try to stay strong, but its not happening at the moment.
Take care x

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Sounds like some real ups and downs here, have a good time today with your friend, treat yourself. (It helps). I hope your friend gets the line right between listening and advice. Especially when it sounds like she may not be the best person to take advice from at the moment!

Your partners actions do have some glimmers of positivity regarding the book, counseling and some eye contact and physical contact etc. I'd try to take them at face value and to not read too much into them. At the moment only he knows what is going on in his head, and until he opens up honestly there's not an awful lot you can do, other than look after number 1.

Hi, Sheila - If hope reading other peoples threads/posts are helping you out, it did for me when i first discovered the site. People are on here because either they have been through the same or are trying to help, so be sure that you're definitely not alone.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Well came into our room to say he had bought me a roll and stuff from the bakery. He has been out since half eight and I don't know if or when he will be home. I did ask him to keep this between us and he said yes. Not sure if he's working tomorrow.

I went out with friend but she bugged me, she kept saying he's taking the p*** out you. He's having an affair. His mum hasn't called since thursday and that makes me feel sad.

All the books say to give him space and not question but it's soo hard when I'm in so much anguish. I don't want him to see my cry and I know this will push him further away.

I'm also worried about the financial side. I don't think I'm entitled to the money from the business

[Raymond]

I pray to God I get a second chance. I can see areas where I've gone wrong and I want to show that I can change. I feel I deserve a second chance or I'll forever wonder.

JWD I don't think this is your fault or else he would have said so. It doesn't become you to analyse yourself like this I feel. You could be close to grovelling if you are not careful which will not be attractive. The problem is with him, whatever it is, not you. I am pretty sure of that. If he gets it together he will see that staying with you is the desirable and the right thing to do.

He is willing to read your book and go to counseling later which are hopeful signs, so all is not lost.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Hi, JWD. I'm so cross with your friend!! You need & deserve a proper "princess" day, not somebody else's misery! Grrr.

What Raymond's just said, above, is really important. Be yourself.

Love,
AG x

ps: Any reason you can't pick up the phone & call his mum?

[JWD]

Thank you both! You have just stopped me sending the most pathetic, grovelling letter. You're right. I'm worth much more than that. I'm not without my faults, but Its not me packing it all in. If there were problems, they should have been addressed before now.

Grace, I called his mum. He had popped in to see her and she asked what happened and he apparently said 'lots of things'. He told her that it would be ok.

I feel bad calling her, she said to call her any time and she is coming down tomorrow. I'm going to book more driving lessons tomorrow and join a gym. This is my tenth driving instructor, I hate learning to drive but I'm going to challenge myself to actually sit a test this time. While I can afford it I may add.

He came in there very drunk, you know, I didn't like what I saw. Going on about guys in the pub much, younger than him. He needs to grow-up. I'm so glad I didn't send that after reading your posts. Who would want to go back to a needy mess.

I'll probably be down again tomorrow but one step at a time. If I can hold onto my self respect I can look back and not cringe.

Thanks all. x

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Well done for the positivity. It might not sound much but a few small steps and before you know it you are away from the middle of what feels like the end of the world.

Taking control of things you can gives you power back and that is very important. If you want to talk to his Mum, just phone. Well done for that. Driving lessons and the gym sound like ideal ways to boost confidence physically and mentally. Happy endorphins, new physique, more confidence and meeting new people all make the gym a great idea!!

If he is avoiding the subject, getting drunk and skirting the issue with his family then he is obviously still in the middle of an "event" be it trying to make a decision, not wanting to admit to something etc. You can't force it out of him, you need to decide if you want to be patient and wait it out or go with the " Who would want to go back to a needy mess"?

Take care of yourself, perhaps have Grace's princess day without the (un)helpful friend?!

Dave

[JWD]

Thanks Dave, He is off today, his mum said I should talk to him. I went in and I asked if we could chat and he said yes. I said I would prefer to listen but that I had written a letter, I went on to ask what was wrong. Again he said he didn't know, he said no one else and it wasn't my fault. He looked stressed about it. He then asked that I send the letter in email and he would read it later. He said is that bad, I said no but it makes me think you aren't really bothering. He said he realises that but even though it looks like he's not bothering or thinking about stuff that he was. He kept touching his head like he was feeling pressured so i was cautious. I explained that I understand that he needs time but that I was feeling very unsure and scared. He kept saying he was sorry.

He said he didn't mind me calling his mum. I said did he think dating again would be beneficial, getting to know one another again but he wasn't sure. He did he wanted to want to try fix things. I said that if he did want to try again that I knew it would be a long road. I told him I would prefer to work on our marriage but would accept his decision.

I said how I missed our closeness and he said he did too but he needs more time. He said we would talk in two days. I said if he needed more time then that was ok. I kind of explained how I was in limbo but that I understand he is going through a horrible time too.

I know I should get myself out the house today but I'm so tired. I will pop along to the pool later for a swim I think.

[Raymond]

You couldn't have made it more plain to him JWD. He seems to be in a bit of a mess. Getting drunk will not help anything. I am glad you are not grovelling but just communicating how you feel and needing his response. Grovelling is a kind of attempted manipulation that never works.

As has been mentioned it is important to keep your life going. Work, rest play etc. You have to get on with things. It sounds to me like he doesn't know what he wants. For a marriage to prosper one needs single minded commitment to the other and if you do not get that with a willingness to share the intimate things with you alone the marriage will be struggling.

Raymond

[jools]

JWD - I read your postings and there are too many similarities between us to even list. The way you think and the way you're reacting are all so similar to my experiences. Just to list a few: - I looked for reasons for his out of character behaviour; I wrote a long letter to him pouring out my feelings and fears; I even went to a relate counsellor (something I NEVER thought I'd do!); I joined a sports club to save my sanity; I thought for a while that he was depressed (which he kind of agreed with) and then poured endless time and money into natural depression remedies; I worried about him when he came home rolling drunk - or on one occassion when he stayed at his friends drinking all night; I snatched at hopeful moments when he made positive comments about us - how I was his best friend ever; I took comfort in the fact that he "didn't know" what he wanted and said it was him and not me (yes - that old cliche!); he said he needed more time; I used to plan times when I told him I wanted to "talk" - but never got any real clarity - just more streams of his confusion - his upset - his depression - his problems. And looking back now it really was all about him and his needs. In retrospect, I would like to add "his selfishness". I'm sure they don't even realise they're being selfish because they're so self absorbed (suppose that's the definition of "selfish").
And where are you and I in the middle of all of this? During the painful course of it all I became physician, psychiatrist, psychologist, herbal expert, agony aunt, victim, private eye - you name it! I'm sure you could tick many of those boxes yourself. Basically we go into survival mode, because more than anything else on the face of this planet we want to save our marriage - and so we fight.
Don't be too hard on your friend who's trying to "tell it like it is". She's fighting for you - even though she might be able to sugar coat the pill a bit better. She just doesn't want you to delude yourself. I feel awful saying that because when I was where you are now, delusion felt so much easier - even though you knew deep down that the rot was spreading. Limbo is a horrible place to be and that's where you are now. Nothing stays as it is and even if you did nothing it would all resolve itself one way or another in time. But if you're like me (which I think you are) doing nothing is not an option. You can only back off and give them space for just so long before your own pressure valve blows. I eventually admitted to myself that the only thing that made sense was if there was someone else and I set out to get my proof. I had to have that proof. Once I had it that was the end. And 2yrs 8 mths down the line I have recovered, healed and become a much stronger, more independent person. I can now say I like my life and I'd never go back. On a practical note - learn to drive asap! I don't know how it will all pan out for you - but I thought I'd share my experiences with you. Good luck.
Jools XX

[JWD]

Thank you so much Jools. I've asked and asked if it's someone and he says of course not that he wouldn't do something so horrible. If I do find out that it is then I'll lose all respect for him completely. If that's the case he should have told me and given me time to recover.

You're so right about always being about him. Looking back, it is always about his feelings. I'm not saying he's not been a good husband, he has, I guess I find it hard because I'm normally such an upbeat person. Always having a laugh. this has just floored me. I'm also someone who needs to seek answers and understand how something like this happens. I expect that's only natural.

I'm not bad looking at all (bit of a chubster :) but this week has certainly solved that little problem so I know it;s not how I look. I need to just relax. I think if he's said he wasn't happy give me a couple of weeks i would handle it better. In my opinion, saying he didn't love me is worse than admitting an affair. What I mean is, he's already devastated me.

Anyway until I know what's going on I'll need to believe him, however much it's staring me in the face.

Thanks again. x

[JWD]

Ok I'm now resorting to reading my stars. All very positive I may add snort

My boss sent a text there and I burst into tears. Said I've to take as much time off as I want but think I'll go back next week. H just came in there, I gave him a big bright smile and he smiled (he's not acting very depressed) anyway he's making us dinner.

I have put so much on the idea that it's depression/another woman. I really haven't considered that he may just not love me. I'm always looking for answers and reasons.

Wish I could open up his head and see right into it.

I tell you, If this man I married, the sweetest, most genuine, caring, loving, intelligent, funny man can do the dirty then I'll never, ever, ever trust again. I know you forget pain but I don't think I could put myself through all this.

I know I'm jumping the gun, just rambling. It helps:)

[Sheila]

Hi

Your last post made me sad - we both will trust again Im sure, and we will love again too.
Whatever happens, one day, we will both look back on our situations and will realise that we dont feel the pain we are feeling now, I promise. Well, thats what everyone is telling me anyway.
I agree, rambling on here helps, I dont know why, but it just does.
You make sure you look after yourself - I'll post an update on my thread later, when I go to bed, coz you can be sure I wont be sleeping.
xx

[JWD]

Well you can be sure I won't be sleeping either. Have you been to Dr's? x

[JWD]

I'll just ramble on again and bore you all with my tales.

I suddenly (didn't even know I was going to say it) blurted out that I was embarrassed that I had sent him the letter. He asked why would you be embarrassed and I said because I felt like it was a loss of control and that I didn't have any dignity. He said not to be silly (how patronising) anyway, I felt, even though I don't feel it, I had to say to him that I won't fall apart and that although I've been sad that I would cope with whatever Wednesday brings.

He said he knew that, he looked sad. I asked if he had read the letter and he said yes which made me happy as I didn't think he was too bothered. I then pushed (yes, I know) and asked if there was anything in it that had caused this but he just got all stressed and I said am I pushing you. He said yes so I left it.

I know I shouldn't be going on and on and trying to figure out what he's thinking but I felt a little hope because surely if he was going to end it he would say it sooner, rather than later. Of course I could be back here Wednesday an even worse wreck if that is possible.

I had already explained that I needed time to adjust to bad news so I'm thinking that he wouldn't be so cruel.

[dave123]

Hi Guys,

Yes i feel the same regarding future love i guess. I know it may happen, i'm sure there is someone out there better suited for me than the past, but i have no idea that i can even contemplate trying for it.

For now i'm taking the time for myself and if i'm honest i don't want to give any of my time to another person in that way. I need to be happier and healthier before i inflict myself on some unfortunate lady! ;-)

Try to get your head away from the thoughts as much as you can, it's nigh on impossible but even if you have to annex your best friend for a few days that is what they're there for. Keep posting it really does help.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Hi Guys,



For now i'm taking the time for myself and if i'm honest i don't want to give any of my time to another person in that way. I need to be happier and healthier before i inflict myself on some unfortunate lady! ;-)



Dave

I gave that very same advice only weeks ago to a girl in work whose husband left her. I remember feeling so much pain for her and my husband thinking her husband was rotten:rolleyes:

Of course, it's totally the correct thing to do.

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Of course i find it much easier looking at other peoples situations from the outside. I'm still a bit of a mess at times and really feel for the people in here in similar situations. Hopefully we can pull each other through the next few days, weeks and even months if necessary.

Hope you're doing OK this evening,

Dave

[JWD]

I know what you mean. It's just all so tragic isn't it. I read that people can become addicted the the pain. How strange but I understand it. I caught myself thinking about my future and how the unknown can be a little exciting. I guess it must be much harder for people with children as you have to see your ex. I doubt I would want to see an ex. Too painful.

I also find myself thinking about how much I would miss his mum and one of his sisters. I've got my marriage over haven't I. It's a mixture of keeping hopeful and preparing for the worst.

I'll I will be here for anyone that needs support. Not great at giving it yet but just someone, a stranger, taking the time to reply really helps.

P.S. where is the spell check on this site?

[Flubber]

Hi JWD,
I am in a similar boat to you, but I am a man who is sufferiing, plus I am 5 months down the line.
I am so sorry for you, as you are on a difficult road.
The most important thing for you is to be strong and utterly focus on your own well being. Do the things for yourself and what you want to do, and not so your H will notice.
If there is any chance for you to redeem your relationship, it won't work if you appear needy and do all the chasing. Start by putting him on the back foot.
Good luck I am wisking you well

[JWD]

Thank you flubber (love that name) I know, I know, all the advice says to do that. I haven't cried in front of him since last monday. I did sent a letter but I really felt that I had to show him how I felt just in case he didn't know. I'm sure if it meant anything to he he'd reply or don't really know what. If he leaves, I will not contact him until he contacts me. i've done everything, read books, been to a counsellor, even phone a psychic line and got caught when ntl phoned my husband to see if kids had called it, fortune those things. :o:o:o:D desperation drives you to it,

My problem is I don't know what the hell is going on.


How are you coping? Are you trying to work things out with your partner?

[dave123]

Hi,

Yes it is tragic when things go wrong and people are hurt so deeply. I don't suppose anyone would really wish this on anyone but there are people out there spoiling relationships and not thinking about consequences even as i type. Life happens and we all make mistakes, from time to time we will face serious loss, a love relationship, a death, a job etc etc and we wonder why it happens to us. At least sharing on here we know we're not the only one's. Men, women, old and young alike we all struggle.

The unknown does seem quite appealing at the moment. I have fleeting ideas of a future and then life brings me back to the present but now i can make that future happen instead of just hoping for the best!

As for seeing the ex a lot with regards to our Son, in some ways i feel it is helping me to come to terms with the changes. I had a fairly long relationship when i was much younger (17-21) and when it ended i never really saw her again. I then dwelt on the unknown for many years. Now being forced to see my wife once/twice a week i feel like i'm getting through it all a lot quicker, it's hard to explain but the process of seeing her change an the change in me helps me recognise that we were unhealthy for each other. We are being open and honest with each other and are being very amiable with regards to practicalities, so there is no unnecessary added stress, i'm grateful though that there has been no betrayal other than simply falling out of love (her words), had she gone on to other behaviour then who knows how i would feel.

The future is ours to make of it what we will. Be strong and make it a good one!

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Do you still want her back? I think even for is H wants to try it's going to be so hard. My friend told me that eventually I WOULD RESENT him for doing this to me but It would depend on the reasons for it happening. Oh it's like waiting for exam results, desperate for the answer but scared to death too.

My sleeping tablets are kicking in so I'm off to cuddle my cats (they seem to be on my side Ha HA

[JWD]

I just called CAB and it's not looking good for me. I'm not likely to get anything from the business and I don't think the house will make a profit. He never wanted a joint account and I've only been paying money into his account towards mortgage.

I have no savings and can't afford a solicitor. Not entitled to legal aid either. I'm so worried. He always said don't worry about money so I didn't.

I know I sound greedy here and i'm sure i'll survive, just a worry.

[Raymond]

If he turns out to be deserting you for no good reason you will need to go for everything you can. What is a divorce settlement if it means no money?

We are still hoping things will work out but you need to be ready. Hoping for the best but being ready for the worst. A phrase which comes up quite a lot on here and usually appropriate.

Raymond

[Sheila]

I agree with Raymond JWD - I desperatley hope things work out for you but you do need to think of every option just incase.
We both need to realise that we come first at the moment.
I hope you are having a good day
xx

[JWD]

Thank you both.

Well today had a bit of a melt down. I cried and cried then I just snapped out of it and dusted myself down and carried on with my business.

I didn't call his mum today and I didn't ask him anything when he came in. I went to bed before him and he looked surprised. He looked like he wanted to say something.

Lots of people in work have been texting, they think I have the cold. I'm sure they know it's more than that. One girl said she missed my smiling wee face. That made me feel good.

Feel a bit stronger. Lost the sense of shame and failure. It's not my fault and I'm trying. Does anyone believe in fate or do you think we use that as an excuse when things are not in our control?

Thanks for the help everyone.

[dave123]

Does anyone believe in fate or do you think we use that as an excuse when things are not in our control?


Hi,

I've never really thought about fate, and i always thought i could control my life. If i had used all the effort towards positivity that i used trying to control things my life would be so different.

Pretty much everything is out of our control; life, fate, God or whatever you want to call it will make us look pretty stupid at some point trying to control things that we simply cannot.

Letting go is very hard but very positive, it's certainly lot an excuse, i have talked a lot about it recently in counseling and at al-anon meetings so hopefully i'm moving forward. A positive future is something that i'm definitely looking forward to.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Thanks dave,

He just sent a text asking if the builders arrived. I replied yes then went on to tell him about chasing one of the cats around the house for an hour to lock them in the living room. He didn't reply. Don't know what I was expecting.

My imagination is running overtime

1. Is he getting the house sorted to sell?

2. Will he say we can live together til we each get our own places?

3. Is he going to move his imaginary (in my head) girlfriend in?

4. Is he having a breakdown, probably not, seems happy enough when he is not
talking to me

5. Does anyone else know?

6. Did all those times when he mocked me affectionately mean something else?

7. Will he stay and sort things out just because it's too messy to divorce

8. Has he got imaginary girlfriend imaginary pregnant?

9. Has he discovered that he didn't get over his ex and wants to try again.

10. What's going to happen to our cats :(




Oh I know I'm being irrational and emotional and a worry wart

These are all the things I want to ask but won't. Not sure if I want the answers. Maybe I've gone from expecting the worst to denial.

My other friend is coming round to make sure I've showered and that I go on my lesson, bless.

Speak soon guys and girls.

[Raymond]

Time will tell about all these things JWD. By the way don't get into fatalism. This is what happens to beggars in India. Hindus says it's their fate and don't lift a finger, when something could be done with a bit of goodwill. I would also avoid horoscopes and phsychics which can all lead to fatalism. Truth is we have freewill and free choice which determines what we do with our lives. Passivity is a killer so don't get into that for your own wellbeing.

Keep fighting.

Raymond

[JWD]

Thanks Raymond.

I came home to no text about dinner, I asked him if he wanted me to make something and he shouted down that he'd eaten. I just snapped. I said thanks for letting me know, he couldn't understand why I was upset. I said you usually text so is this it now, no more texts, getting our own dinner?

I said I had my lesson, didn't even ask how it went.

It's like he can't stand me. He's now out in the car doing god knows what. I don't think I can keep this up.

[Sheila]

You can do this - just be strong (I know its easier said than done).
You don't deserve to be treated this way, you deserve better.
By the way, I'm asking....How was your lesson?
xx

[JWD]

Thanks sheila, it was great. I actually laughed today. Instructor is dead funny.

H just asked me there if I minded him going out sat pm. I said do you want to do something sat night and he said yes, maybe.

I asked about his work and seems he's not very happy there either. He's concerned about the practice of others there? We chatted about it but nothing much more. I told him about my day and we laughed a bit.

He had been in our room because he mentioned something and that makes me think at least he looked in to see if I was there.

I said I felt like I was walking on egg shells and he asked why? Really he wondered why!!! took all my strength not to punch him.

He has made soup and just came in with a spoon to let me taste it. Just like old times.



I can't believe I'm writing all this in a public forum almost word for word our conversations like someone out there is going to tell me what's going on lol.

Thanks for thinking about me Sheila. I hope you feel a bit better.


Edit he meant sat afternoon

[Sheila]

I feel a bit like you do, I wouldnt ever have imagined myself writing on a forum.
You shouldn't have to be treading on eggshells, it should be them treading on eggshells around us.
I'm ok again today, I have heard from him and will post later...I know he is regretting all this.
You make sure you keep up with your lessons, and when you pass your test, it will be the best thing ever.
Try and have a good evening.
xxx

[JWD]

Will do Sheila. thank you xx

Well we spoke, I had to tell him how I was feeling. He again said sorry. He seems to think I should still be able to text and act normal. Anyway he is going to go away after work a drive on Friday and really think about things. Said he will be coming home. He said it's nothing to do with anything I had said in the letter, he just doesn't know. He said he is not depressed, said every job has it's problems etc.

He said he wants to try, his actual words were 'I think we've got to try'

He said he still finds me attractive.

He will seriously think about seeing the counsellor. I really hope he does. I know it's a long road ahead and don't want to get my hopes up but I feel more positive.



Sheila, I hope you will be ok. I will be thinking about you. He obviously knows what a strong woman you are.

[JWD]

Update.

H came and chatted away this morning like we used to do. He said he was going to gym and I have my aqua so we both said when we'd be back.

He smiled at me then left the room, he then came back in and said he may be back at lunchtime if he's not too busy. Trying not to make too much of it but at least he feels comfortable coming home at lunch time now.

I told my friend about last night and I regret it, she said the rot has already spread, he can't possibly love me and that he will just mess me about for years. I don't believe that. I won't be a fool for anyone, however, everyone deserves a second chance and it's not like he has done something terrible on purpose. Of course I wish it hadn't happened but it has and I need to concentrate on helping to re-build our relationship if that is possible.

I've known my friend for 10 years, she knows everything about me and I know she is only saying this because so is so angry that I've been so upset.


I feel happy today. I feel like no matter what Friday brings, I've said how much I love and respect him so I'll never have to beat myself up about whether or not I said and showed how I felt and if I could have done more.

Time will tell I guess.

I think this will really change me as a person for the better.

I'm going back to work next week regardless of what H will say to me on Friday. I have a good support group there and no longer feels embarrassed/ashamed that this has happened to me.

Without meaning to sound big headed, I know I'm popular and well liked so I can't be that horrible person I've made myself out to be.

Getting stronger.

I'm eating properly again so that's helping.

[Raymond]

Good for you JWD. Nowhere near grovelling now. Thing is you're probably more attractive to him in the frame of mind you have now. He has to make his decision. Better to let him think well about it and have his commitment rather than pressuring him. I sense a stronger girl coming out now.

Raymond

[JWD]

You're right Raymond, I am getting stronger. I was far too dependent on what h was doing at weekends etc. I love him more than anything but I think I may have been making him 99.9% of my life.

Today was a good day.

Went to aqua aerobics, then took myself into town ok I did buy a love spells book LOL but couldn't get any of ingredients (moment of desperation) but I was laughing at myself for doing it.

Came home and H had been ringing my phone. He had bought me those wee mini sausages, they're never in the supermarket when I go and he knows how much I love them, I though it was thoughtful and wish I had paid more attention when he did these things before. Easy pleased I am. Funnily enough, I had bought him his fav sweetie.

We made dinner together and really chatted about stuff, work, funny things that people had said to him, the gym, I listened to him and chatted back.

He went to bed there and I didn't feel my heart drop. I'm very nervous about tomorrow (he's going to think about things tomorrow) and now that I'm not panicking as much I feel that I should tell him that there is no pressure to give me answers, just when he's ready? Guess I want to show him that we can have more nights like we did tonight?

On the other hand, don't want to bring it up again.

What do you guys think?

Say don't worry about having to tell me, take your time

or

say nothing

I think say something. I know I have to gauge these thing for myself, just bit unsure because it's the big day tomorrow.

[Sheila]

I will be thinking about you tomorrow. I really want this to work out the way you want it to.
Please let us know how it goes.
xx

[JWD]

Thank you so much Sheila. Do you think I should let him know that he doesn't need to give me answer on out future til he's ready or just leave it

[dave123]

Hi,

I hope it goes OK for you. Being in limbo is awful, i hope you get some news either way and really push on from here.

Take care,

Dave

[Sheila]

Im not sure about that JWD.
Whatever you decide to say at the time will be right for you - lets hope he has been having a good long think about things and everything works out.
Just make sure you stay strong.
xx

[JWD]

Thanks Sheila and dave x

[Sheila]

Just to let you know Im thinking of you today
xx

[JWD]

Thanks Sheila, I'm very worried because although he has been talking more, still no affection. Maybe he doesn't want to get my hopes up.. Anyway going to think positive and stop reading about how many second marriages end in divorce. :-(

Thanks you for thinking about me. How are you? x

[Raymond]

I thought it better to say nothing. He may take forever if you say there is no pressure. Not saying anything will not pressurise him. Nevertheless a decision is needed rather than drifting on forever not knowing. Hope he comes up with something positive, but if he doesn't you have to be strong and make a life.

Raymond

[JWD]

I feel sick sitting here waiting for H to come back.

I keep asking myself how someone can be capable of this mental torture towards me but I guess it's me allowing it, not him.

I'm worried about how I'm going to react. I just don't know what to do for the best. I don't want to cry and make a scene in case that pushes further away but then I feel i'm entitled to answers. Just so confused,

Keep reading that 60% of second marriages end in divorce (my first, his second). this depresses me further.

I was so positive earlier but now my head is spinning round and round. My friend tells me to wake up and smell the coffee - he's met someone else but I just think it's something more. Will I ever find out I wonder?

The thought of never getting over this kills me a little.

[Sheila]

Try and stay calm hun...do you have any idea what time he is coming back?
x

[JWD]

He just called to ask if I want take away. I was very cheerie. This is it guys, send all the positive vibes you can muster, well as much as you can considering the board.

Here goes. x

[Sheila]

Good Luck
x

[JWD]

Nothing! nothing at all!

Wasn't as talkative. I'm trying so so hard not to ask things. All the books keep saying say nothing, act happy but I worry that we're drifting further apart.

If he doesn't suggest going out tomorrow or talking I'm going to have to say something. I'm due back at work on Monday and dreading it.

[Ageing Grace]

Oh, oh, JWD! You went through all that and got ... a takeaway?!? Arrgh.

I dunno where you're getting all this advice to act cheery, not to cry, etc. I'm assuming you feel it's the correct tactic in your particular circs but I'm thinking it makes it look like you don't really care either way and are comfortable with how things are?

Perhaps it's time to say what you feel. Make sure you eat first - and take several long breaths. Jump up & down if you need to get rid of nervous energy!

Good luck, I'm wishing the best for you.

AG xx

[JWD]

All the books say that you musn't look needy, make them think that you're coping without them etc.

We're meeting in town for dinner. I asked him, again, Just kept saysing, yeah, sure. I said do you really want to and he said yes.

Again, not sure if I should be keeping things light or not.

I'll go into town and buy something nice to wear.

[JWD]

Going for dinner tonight, I'm very nervous. I appreciate that he is making the effort. Still no affection in the texts. His mum mentioned that he was considering couples therapy. Some sites are saying that that makes some matters worse. Was going to sign up for divorce bursting but I've paid put so much on ebooks that not sure if I'm being conned. So unsure

[Flubber]

HI JWD,
This post is in reply to what you posted on my post.
We are in a very similar situation although I am further down the road. If your husband is the type who never changes his mind like my wife, then I suggest you start preparing for the worst and hope in a small way for the best. From my experience we tend look for all the signals to comfort us that things maybe changing in our direction. There have been loads of posts on this site like our situation, but hardly any that have seen a couple reunited.
I am getting on with my life. It's her loss. When someone puts their own emotional needs above even their own children, then there is no hope for that person or anyone in a relationship with them.
Be strong JWD. I know how tough it is. The sense of rejection is overwhelming, but time is a healer. I've moved on alot from wanting my wife back, my main focus is my children. This will come for you as well.

I'm thinking about you

[JWD]

Thank you flubber. We don't have any children (he wasn't sure if he was ready) anyway, maybe that is a blessing.

We went for dinner, he was quite drunk, moaning about the other folk there, saying they were pretentious etc, it was actually quite awkward. I asked all about his day and he told me. Didn't once ask about my day, didn't say I looked nice or anything. Anyway we kind of struggled through talking about anything and anyone apart from us.

He was practically falling asleep so I said for him just to go (in a nice, indifferent way) He said don't be silly and we ended up going somewhere else for a couple of drinks.

We came home and he gave me a brand new i pod (he has bought it for me a couple of weeks ago). I was quite touched anf thanked him. All very polite.


I saw a very unhappy man tonight. He was negative about everything around him. He just looked worn down. I don't want to be the cause of that. He is a stranger, unreachable.

His mum said he had mentioned counselling, she said he seemed happy when he popped in last night. :rolleyes:

What does worry me is that it was a relief to get to bed tonight. That shouldn't happen. Maybe it's the few vodkas I've had. I just feel numb now.

I'm ok. Just numb.

[JWD]

Well he seemed annoyed at me for some reason this morning. I knew he was up but I stayed in the bedroom. He then came in to our room and asked if I wanted anything from shops and when said no he just walked off. Made his own breakast:confused:. He is now away to football but seems to have taken the car. Usually drinks at football.

I keep looking for answers. Do you think early mid life crisis? The selling business, wanting to emigtate? Am I clutching at straws.

I don't think depression, you know what bugs me, I keep hearing him whistle away in the kitchen, it really annoys me for some reason. It's like a care free attitude.

I was going to wait and bring up the counselling on Thursday. I have work Mon and TUE and I'm going to a concert on the Wed.

I wonder if he will suggest picking me up from work like he always used to do?

If it i a MLC it usually ends in an affair.

Right, back to not caring:rolleyes:

[JWD]

Ok, bad afternoon, had my third panic attack, they're awful! I got myself together and went to my favourite haunt these days, borders self help section. Ended up buying a book for H a he had bought me the i pod mp4 thing.

I was not expecting him back til at least 10pm so I just walked around town. He had sent a text from the house asking if I'd be home for dinner. Told him I was on bus on way home. I started crying on the bus in front of strangers, pathetic but I just feel such a sense of loss.

Got myself together and though I'm going to need to say something before I lose my sanity. Got in and he was all smiles, even asked me about my day. He hasn't asked for 2 weeks now since it happened. I was cheerful etc then I just asked if we could talk. He asked what about? Phew

Up-shot is, he has no idea why or when he decided he no longer loved me. Can't put his finger on it. Said he's not depressed and laughed off an early mid life crisis. I was very cautious and kept saying I didn't want to put words in his mouth and that he needed to tell me how he is feeling.

I asked about counselling and he said yes, he said even if he didn't want to go he would do it for me but that he was doing it because he wanted to try save our marriage.

I explained how hard it was the lack of affection and he said he didn't want to give me false hope therefore, missed out kisses in texts etc. He said he didn't mind me ending them to him. I asked if I could kiss him and he smiled and said yes and hugged me.

I ended up pushing too far and said I would hate to think that you're doing this to help me out before you go looking for relationship elsewhere, he jut shook his head. I managed to pull it back together and I said I was going to bed and gave him a little kiss.

It's very very early days and going to be very delicate so I really need to wise up and have some sort of coping plan. I had asked how he felt about coming back to our room but he said he is still not sleeping well (that's true) and he would just worry about keeping me awake. Also he is not quite ready.

Taking it one day at a time. We won't get to a counsellor til next wed so I need to hang in there and keep my emotions in check.

Got work tomorrow :eek:

[Ageing Grace]

Hi, JWD :) :)

Good news about the chat and the counselling. Thanks for your update!

I'm really glad you've got work tomorrow. It probably feels hard to face, but I seriously believe you're becoming dangerously single-focused over your troubles at home. Being around other people, with definite tasks to do, will probably be good for you.

I hope you will be lucky with your choice of counsellor. If there's anything you need right now, it has to be a safe forum for you to express your feelings. Good luck tomorrow - and I hope you're not reading this, because you ought to be getting ready for bed!

:D
AG

[JWD]

:) I'm dropping off shortly. My counsellor is a guy, think it will be easier for H to talk with him. I hope it helps, i'm so paranoid that it will make matters worse.

I'm going to get myself fit, for me, not H.

I felt I maybe moved forward then back again tonight but I'm not going to dwell, I feel I've been given a second chance here and I'm going to really work at it.

Thank you everyone who has posted. you've no idea how much it has helped me.

God bless you all. x

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Good news on here is always nice to hear!

I hope you can take the next few weeks really slowly and keep an open mind. My experience of counseling has really opened my eyes to who i am as a person, and how i would like to be. You may come out the other end ready to begin to build a brilliant relationship, or you may decide to start a new life on your own. I hope you choose the option that will make you happiest in the long run.

Good luck with the new fitness regime, sounds like a really positive step to be doing it for yourself! Well done.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

thanks dave.

[JWD]

Bad day! went to work and was fine for a couple of hours then someone asked if I was ok and I broke down. Feel so weak and pathetic. They're were all just as shocked as me. I feel like it's more real now that people know and that it will be harder to mend.

I called counsellor to ask about an appointment and explained that H had football on the sat so couldn't make it. He said maybe tell him that I would prefer to go sat but then I told counsellor that he was out Friday night, he felt that counselling after a night out wasn't the best idea.

I know it's not attractive and it will perhaps push him away but I hate myself right now. How can we recover when again, he says he does not know why he feels like this.

I'm so mixed up, looking for answers and can't make sense of any of it. I know I should pull myself together but I feel there is more to come and I don't think I could take any more of this.

[Ageing Grace]

Oh, poor you JWD! I'm sorry you had such a horrible time. Have you stayed at work or gone home?

Try not to be hard on yourself. It's not weak to be distressed by all this, it's perfectly normal!

You sound like a major 'coper' but even the strongest people have feelings, you know. Take it easy and ... what Dave said :)

AG xx

[JWD]

Thank you Grace.

I came home. He just came in there and asked 'what's up' I said I got upset in work and that he must think I'm pathetic. He said he didn't. He sat across from me and said we'd see what counselling was like.

I couldn't stop myself, told him it was hard because I don't know what the problem is but he doesn't either. How can he not know? I said you're being so cold and he walked off then came back in rubbed my back like you would a two year old.

He kept has stuff to do from business he sold etc. Told him I was upset that he would rather football than counselling but he just said nothing. He looks like he's upset he's hurt me but it's like he has build a big wall around himself. I said I really miss your texts and he just smiled sadly at me.

I don't know who he is anymore. 2 weeks and he is a stranger. I've wracked my brain trying to figure out what happened. I'm so hurt and scared that he doesn't think our marriage is a priority.

He was the most considerate, gentle loving man I'd ever met.

I'm clutching at it being and early mid life crisis but I am just clueless right now.

[JWD]

well he called to see how I was. I said fine and sorry for being upset and he said he understands how hard this is for me. I just said we'd see what the counsellor said next week.

All the girls from work have been calling and sending lovely texts. They're going to make sure I go to concert and they don't care if I cry. Think I'm going to go stay with one of them overnight because if I've had a drink I don't want to do anything stupid.

I'm going to really try and be positive and just take things as they come. I'm going to stop trying to act like everything is great around him. I won't be crying constantly but I will be myself.

[Ageing Grace]

So good to hear the girls are shoring you up, JWD. What would we do without friends?
The night out sounds like good medicine - even if you cry nonstop, you'll be well cared for ... I'm sure you need to feel safe to let go for a change!

It is unspeakably vile when the person you love, and have felt so close to, becomes distant. It's almost like a bereavement ... although the person is still there! You must be feeling stretched to the limit: it's good that he's definitely coming to counselling. Hopefully you will at least get a clue what's going on.

Well done for being more honest with him, JWD.

I really hope this horrible phase comes to a good end for you. Meanwhile, the most important thing is for you take a little more care of your physical & emotional wellbeing - you've made a great start on that. Wishing you an OK evening and a day of being spoiled rotten at work, tomorrow ;)

AG xx

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

I hope you have a great night with your friends, you deserve some fun, and it's lovely that they are helping you out with support and compassion.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Thank you both. grace, it feels like a bereavement. When he goes to bed without any kisses. I'll never take kisses and cuddles for granted ever again.

He was just like his normal self tonight except affection. My head knows that you can't push and force someone to love you, my heart just hasn't caught up yet. How sad lol. x

[dave123]

Hi again,

In both aspects of the counseling i have attended 1-2-1 and a "moving on" course, they have said that a relationship ending is exactly like a bereavement, or any other serious loss. The process which we will all invariably go through is the same. Why me? anger, blame, depression/sadness, acceptance and eventually moving on. There's more to it than that but that's the gist of the so-called rollercoaster of loss.

The positive bit is that you can be sure you will come out the other side, having learned some lessons and as a better person for it.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

Thanks Dave. It's getting harder and harder not how how my emotions around him

[Sheila]

Hi
I dont really know what to say, but just wanted you to know Im thinking of you. I dont understand how you can keep so cool around him (I really lost it last night). One part of ne says you have every right to know whats going on inside his head, yet the other part of me says give him space.
Have a great time with your friends.
xx

[JWD]

well he caught me crying yesterday and it he seemed to care. I don't know if it' worse, maybe he is trying to let me down gently so he doesn't feel guilty. No idea. Limbo.

just found out my mum has told a cousin and aunt after me begging her not to lie. It's her telling me more lies that hurts. Feel like I've lost the person I trust more in the world and can't even trust my own mum. I wasn't ready to have extended family know. he had my dad to confide in. Now it will be round the whole family like wild fire. I just knew she would do it, can't trust anyone can you. :-(

[JWD]

I said a few horrible things earlier about my mum. it's not her fault and she is trying her best. I was selfish to expect her to try deal with this herself and support me. I have a few family issues that I need to work on. I have allowed this to interfere in my marriage before so no matter what happens, I'm going to try have more understanding and patience for my family.

H called earlier to see how I was. I was just thinking how last month, he was in the area I work and wanted to pop in to see me just to say hello and give me a kiss. Doesn't make sense and I'm thinking that it has been a one night stand which ha sent him into this turmoil. Without proof or admission, there is nothing I can do so I will try to put that to the back of my mind for now.

I'm a very impatient person and I know I need to work on this. All you lovely people supporting me, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to try and help a stranger through this awful time. I have received so much support already from the girls in work. people really are lovely. I'm still not ready to tell our friends, maybe he will but I'm sure I have the support I need for just now.

I have a few small baby steps that I want to aim for.

1. try relax around H despite what is happening

2. try to laugh a bit more

3. get myself out and about and stop all the what if's


Thanks again for the support.

[Raymond]

That's all you can do at the moment JW.

Is he doing acts of kindness out of guilt or genuine love? That is the question that you need to know soon.

Raymond

[JWD]

I feel it's guilt or worse, pity.

[Sheila]

How are you tonight JWD?
Whats the concert you are going to tomorrow?
xx

[JWD]

Hi Sheila, I'm ok. He called to see if I needed anything from the shops. He came home in a bad mood. He started telling me about something that annoyed him at work and I listened and showed sympathy but he just grunted. Hardly even looked at me.

We were watching tv and he kept going on his phone so I just said I was coming to bed. Thought I was about to say something. He never asked about my day at all. Once I came to bed I could hear him whistling away (that really irritates me for some reason) I'm not not ready yet to hear more bad news. Not yet :-(


I'm going to see Snow patrol. All the girls are coming to meet me at the station. They say they are bringing hankies and mascara lol. I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to cinema on Thursday and on Friday out with other friends. Will need to try keep busy on Sat. Then is's dealing with another week. I'm on annual leave next week but might just go in to keep my mind busy with other stuff.

How are you? you can email me on devastated09@googlemail.com if you ever need a private word. do you like the email ha.

[Sheila]

Snow Patrol, I love them.....you'll have a great time.
I saw Shopaholic at the weekend, its a good feel good film (the books are great too).
How on earth are we going to get through the next few weeks?
I know there is loads of support on here, and from family and friends, but its the coming home to an empty house and the going to bed alone thats hard.
You make sure you enjoy your week, and have a great time tomorrow.
Thanks for the email address, I will send you a quick email so you will have my address that way...will be great to keep in touch.
xx

[JWD]

We'll need to challenge each other to do something positive for ourselves. I have a ton of carp that I've down loaded that will certainly pass the time for you lol.

Going to see shopaholic thur, loved all the books.

We'll get through this. xx

[JWD]

anyone else that wants to email or whatever feel free.

[Bubble]

I don't know how either but I have to believe that WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS!

Really hope you enjoy Snow Patrol :)

Take care,
Bubble X

[JWD]

Thanks bubble. We just need to stay strong, show them what they are throwing away and keep fighting but using our heads and not our hearts. We'll decide if and when this marriage is over!

[nw_guy]

JWD: I have read your posts and it is very moving.

You need to stop blaming yourself as you've done everything you can. He's playing mind games and no one can tolerate that for too long. Start making a new life for yourself. Get out more, find new interests, etc..

Maybe he is depressed or stressed. He sounds it. If he comes round then fine. maybe you could have a future together. If not, then so be it!

You need to start thinking of yourself more. Particularly your own health!

Whatever happens, you will come out of it a stronger person! I know, as I'm talking from experience!

[JWD]

Thanks new guy. I will def start making a new life. I'm probably just making it easier for him. I'm wondering if he just want me leave the house. I'm not leaving, that's for sure. I need to start saving hard.

[JWD]

Well I broke down really really bad this morning. There are work men everywhere, the house is full of noise and dust and I was rocking myself like a mad lady wringing my hands.

I went out last night and I did enjoy myself but I'm in denial. I'm shutting down, he's shutting down, it's only going to get worse.

I called him and he picked up straight away, I said I know you are out all weekend and you have football Sat but I really need you to come to the counsellor sat to help me adjust to this. I said I know you're having a rough time but I recognise that I'm making myself ill and need a little help to get through this.

He straight away said yes he'll come. Now I realise i'm being negative, but he is a very caring, wonderful man so I think he is just doing it to help me but it doesn't matter, I just need some sort of indication why this has happened no matter what the answers, if any are.

I've went with my heart and I hate how I've allowed myself be reduced to this but I still can't get angry because I love him and I can't ever feel bad about him. I'm just so sorry that we're in this situation and I haven't been enough for him.

I've called my doctor, I've been to counselling, I'm calling samaratins constantly but nothing is helping. No prayer to God, dead realatives or white witches :) can help. I just NEED some release from this torment.

thank you all for caring about a mad, mad woman. x

[jkk]

You are not mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are understandable very sad.

You are just having a particularly bad day today.

Tomorrow is another day.

Chin-up

jkk

[Sheila]

jkk is right, your just having a bad day - you have been incredibly brave up till now and you are just releasing all your emotions. Its only to be expected.
Please try and have a good afternoon.
xx

[JWD]

He called to see how I was and I broke down. I said I'm sorry but I'm not taking this well at all. He said that its ok to be feeling like this and that he really thinks counselling with help.

I asked if there was anything he wanted to tell me, he said there are lots of things going on, not anyone else and that a lot of thing I put in my letter to him were factors. He kept saying its not all my fault and that he has a part in what has happened too.

Now I'm very ashamed to write all this down but I'm facing it.

He said when I have been drinking that I get nasty to him and say things like 'we're finished' This is true. I don't know why I do this, insecure I guess and pushing his button. I've been jealous of his ex only now can I see what a waste of negative emotion that was.

His ex is demanding thousands from him, he has just sold a business, house getting renovated and just got a new job. Then I start with my insecure, needy crap.

I've nearly/possibly lost the best man in the universe. He has never treated my badly, never and he does not deserve this behaviour. I'm changing my ways for myself. I'm 32 and still acting up on stupid childhood rubbish.

I love him and I seriously want what is best for him. If that is not me, i'll let him go .

I really hope this is a wake up call and that its not too late. I'm not going to go gushing in, I'll be very patient and take things one day at a time.

He wants to talk tonight, we're going a walk or a drive. I'm going to listen and I know I will be hearing some things that I don't like but I'll face them.

I want a second chance at this marriage and I'm going to do everything in my power to restore and enhance it.

[Sheila]

If he does tell you anything you dont want to hear, please dont do what I did on sunday and jump in feet first. Just listen to him. Ok you may feel hurt but to be honest, can you feel any worse than both of us, and others on here feel now.
I do have to say this though and Im sorry if it sounds harsh, so here goes...
I think its about time he told you what he wants - does he want a life with you or not?
I know thats strange coming from me who is in limbo with her H but to think of you going through the pain that I am suffering is awful.
I often hear myself saying I wish I could turn back the clock, but this is me here now, not 2, 3 or 4 years ago.
Im trying like you to make the best of a bad situation but we both know how hard it is.
Im with you all the way.
Good luck for tonight
xx

[jools]

I've called my doctor, I've been to counselling, I'm calling samaratins constantly but nothing is helping. No prayer to God, dead realatives or white witches :) can help. I just NEED some release from this torment.Hi JWD
I just had to reply to you. What you said above struck a chord with me because I can remember feeling exactly like that and a good friend of mine gave me the answer "No one can do it for you, Jools. Only you can do it." And you will JWD. You seem to be sensible and strong (despite how you feel at the moment). You will come through this - but it'll be due to you and your efforts.
Jools XXX

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

I hope the day has ended better than it was this morning! Was really sorry to hear that you were having such an awful day. Taking each day a step at a time is all we can really do here, some are OK, some are terrible and some are (dare i say it) good! It sounds like a lot of your thoughts are about your failings and why you want your husband back, all of which is completely natural but probably not all that helpful. If you think you have issues from your childhood that have affected your relationship then it's not silly to look at them, maybe going to the counseling on your own initially could be really helpful?

Take care of yourself and make sure you put yourself first!

Dave

[Sheila]

Just to let you know im thinking of you this evening
xx

[Ageing Grace]

JWD, it seems like you've been having your worst day so far - and you wrote your most positive post so far!! Funny old world, innit ;)

Congratulations on every word of that post, and on every thought that went towards it.

You looked at facts, you looked at how your own 'acting out' has contributed to the strains on your marriage, and you empathised with your husband's anxieties. Even better, there was not one word about trying to manipulate his feelings :)

For the first time, I feel as though you may both get through this stronger and together. Now, please don't go all pathetic over that comment (scowls sternly). The crucial thing for you, here, is to recognise your own strength as an individual - very much including your own power to improve. Go for the self-improvement! Develop the inner strength and self-respect to become more confident and secure in your own right, without constantly looking for someone else to do it for you.

In short ... be Dave! :D Okay, you're excused the martial arts & the bike test ;)

Take care of yourself -
love, AG

[JWD]

Thank you all for your thoughts. And Grace, thank you, you're very wise so your post made me happy


Well he is def chatting more about his job, seems not as great as was expected but he is happier apparently.

Well I asked him if he felt comfortable talking about what he felt was wrong. He was very concerned that he was 'tearing me to shreds' however, I told him that I was ready to face anything negative he had to say and that he shouldn't worry about that because i needed to know.

Well he said that he felt I didn't ever accept that he had an ex wife. I can see exactly why he feels that. I agreed with him that I did have issues re her calling the house (our house) every time she didn't get money and all the stupid nasty stuff she had been saying about me. It's ironic but I was actually always trying to protect him because she was so manipulative of him.

Instead of being happy I had him, I wasted negative energy on her. Could kick myself. Stopped myself from saying not fair because all his friends always went on about her and how horrible she was. I've never called her anything to them at all as I've never met her, just had the pleasure on the phone. Should have minded my own business and let the past be the past even if she did still keep calling and sending letters to his mum. :mad:

Anyway, we haven't spoken of her for at least 18mnths so it can't be the only problem and I have read that often unhappy spouses focus and blame things on their partner (not intentionally) it just happens.

He began to get uncomfortable again and said he wanted to wait for counselling because he didn't want to say something that came out wrong. that sounds to me like confusion but we'll see what else comes out in therapy.

I just left it at that because I didn't want to pressure him and then he runs further. I've assured him that counselling is not going to 'fix' everything and that I'm not expecting that. I told him he has to concentrate on himself and to do what he feels is right for himself and not what he feels he should do.

I'm continuing with the positive mental attitude although I will slip up. I still feel that we have a chance and I'm going to improve me for me.

Thanks again all for posts today.

[ken94]

Hi JWD,

I hope it goes well for you too and the love between both of you will be restaured.
You sound strong and that's good; on my side I am so weak as I give her what she wants all the time.

Ken

[JWD]

Thank you ken, I think I'm being strong because I really think my Husband needs me to be. I'm weak too though, I'm terrified and I mean total terror at the thought of us splitting but need to focus and think positive.

It's very difficult not to give them exactly what they want because it natural isn't it to think you're pleasing them and of course you still love them so want to make them happy.

I'm reading so much and read that in a case like that, where you give them everything and nothing is changing, that you need to do something very small like refusing one of their requests, this makes them take notice and respect you a bit more.

Now, I haven't slept well for few weeks now and head is still very jumbled so maybe talking rubbish and I'm certainly not advising you. Would hate to make anything worse for you.

Anyway I have the e books if you want a copy of them.

Right back to PMA.

I'm going to be happy that H wants to come to counselling as I feel it would really help him process his thoughts.


Jools, thank you for your post. Lovely

[JWD]

Well just been for driving lesson, It was great. I'm doing really well.

H sent a text asking how it went. I replied and said it was great, he then said he was having a rotten day so I said just think a couple more hours and you will be finished for the weekend.

Ha trying not to analyse every sentence.

So hard but I have hope.

I'm not going out with friend and her friend, she's being too negative and I don't think i'll enjoy myself. So going to clear my room out a bit and watch a dvd.

Maybe even go on the cross trainer.

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

Well done for the driving lesson, and the clear out. I found tidying and clearing out really therapeutic during this period because i guess it's a external way of showing that internally you are ready for change. Well done for avoiding the negative situation too, you're doing really well i think!

Best of luck for tomorrow, i hope in the neutral environment of counseling you can both be honest and really listen with open hearts to each other. I'd have loved the opportunity to have that chance so i must admit i'm a bit jealous. I hope it helps you both come back together stronger and happier. If it doesn't work out like that then eventually it will help you through it all and out the other side.

Take care of yourself, and enjoy that DVD!

Dave

[JWD]

Thank you dave,

He called today to see if I wanted to go for lunch. it was a bit strained, we talked about his new job and there are slight problems there but he said it's fine?? Anyway I listed to everything he was saying and threw wee bits in. Tried to act happy.

He asked where counselling was, I told him and I didn't discuss our relationship again after that.

He asked twice where I was going tonight but I think it was just polite conversation.

Oh, he may be buying another business, in a few years???????? Stopped myself asking about the supposed immigration. Makes me so sad that these are all things he would have discussed with me a couple of weeks ago.

I don't think he knows what he wants. The only thing he seems sure of it's not me HA

Anyway, we came home and I'm in our room. hiding like an intruder.

We'll see what happens tomorrow.


Hope no one on here recognises my situation eeek

Miss para

[dave123]

Hi,

Well done for keeping with your new behaviour, controlling your responses and looking after your own situation is as much as you can do right now. Don't call it hiding, calling it taking some time on your own. Put you feet up and read a book or watch a dvd!

Maybe he doesn't know what he wants, counseling can probably help here because they will ask him questions that either of you may not have thought of.

Don't sweat what might happen in a few years, just take it one day at a time, if it works out well then whatever comes along down the road you will be equipped to deal with it together. If things come apart then you will be in total control of your destiny.

Take care,

Dave

[JWD]

You're right Dave. Maybe he'll make me so miserable I'll be the one leaving, maybe he wants that ha ha so sneaky.

thank you.

[JWD]

Half one in the morning and he has just brought someone back to stay, been chucked out from girlfriend)

He is very drunk saying it's ok, everything is ok. I said have you told him, no, I said so how is this going to look when he isn't offered the spare room.

I no longer care. I'm not some stupid little mug he can walk over. He can shove it, take everything, all his unhappiness with him.

I don't need this and I don't deserve it. All I'm guilty of is being head over heels in love with an illusion. Well, if he thinks this pathetic ,crying, naive mess is going to tip toe around his feelings much longer, he is in for a rude awakening.

Bet he thinks he is getting in here. HA another thing coming.

[Ageing Grace]

Wow.

Was that Dutch courage, JWD, or are you finding your own mind here? And who slept on the sofa??

Hope all goes well for you this weekend :)

love,
AG

[Sheila]

Silly question I know hun, but how are you this morning.
What happened after he got it - did his mate stay all night?
Where did H sleep?
Is he planning on going with you for counselling today?
Sorry so many questions - thinking of you
x

[JWD]

Well it was apparent that mates knows nothing about the situation.

Right, went to counselling together. H was upset, he hates how he has hurt me, he feels sad, scared, unhappy and guilty. Feels that he should have been able to sort this out himself.

He hasn't felt like this for long but since selling business 6-8 weeks ago, it cleared his mind and he realised that it was our marriage that made him unhappy. (I'd like to think that he is just transferring blame of unhappiness from business to me because no other reason). wishful thinking in a rotten kind of way.

He is confused about how he feels so that is why he is not being affectionate or anything, he doesn't want to mess with me and give me false hope.


He realises that marriage is a commitment and he wants to try sort in his head, the things about me that make him unhappy.

We are going back in 10 days but meanwhile we are to try see if we can be comfortable in each others company.

I had no idea that he found it so hard to open up. He said how he hates confrontation and runs from it.

He said I'm still his best friend and he still finds me very attractive
He said I'm like his best friends and we agreed how much fun and enjoyment we get from each other.

I now need to just be very very patient and get my own life.

It helps that he is not out having a ball, that he is upset because at least then I know he hasn't just let go.


The counsellor was saying that obviously you're a lovely, decent
man but you have to be honest about what problems you are seeing.

He is lovely great guy and makes me sad that I could lose him but I think that was all very positive.

What do you think?
I have hope.
.

[JWD]

Right so I have flung myself into PMT positive mental thinking.

I have just spent five mins visualising a wonderful future with hubby.

Guess what, looked a mobile and he had sent a joke text :-)

it's a start, thats what you normally do when first dating right. yes that is right.

Noone leaves a happy, confident person.

PMA people

[yogamad]

Your husband does sound lovely from how you describe him and definitely sounds worth fighting for. Good luck with the counselling, hope it helps.

[ken94]

"Anyway I have the e books if you want a copy of them."

Yes I think that will be usuefull to me. At the moment I think about her negatively and that isn't helping. I think thinking positively of your partner definitly help.
How can I get a copy ?

Your doing a great job and I wish you all the best.

Ken

[JWD]

Hi Ken you can email me at devastated09@googlemail.com I'll change the email one day :-)

He is lovely Yogamad. Thank you

[JWD]

Rolled in drunk again, because I was out, he went out. He is so nice when I say how this is not the answer. All I get is stories about someone who annoyed him, listen to him slagging even the teller in the bank. everyone else sees a great guy.

I think the counsellor will think its me because he is so rational in there. What about me. What about the times I've brought him up water when he has been sick through drink, the times I've listened to him re work.
I don't even have a table to eat my dinner from, he doesn't like the dining room. It didn't matter though, I loved and accepted him.

never nags about football weekends away, encouraged it in fact.

I'm questioning my years with him now.

You know, he said that selling the business cleared up his mind to realise it was me upsetting him, making him unhappy, funny that, he always called in sick to his own business when I was off.

I think he is depressed and it's not me. What does he want?

Just keeps saying I don't know. I said if I make you so unhappy then we need to do something fast because this is not you.

If you don't love someone, why plan to move to other side of the world. Why tell them every day you love them? Why did I even ask him what was wrong? he said to counsellor that he thought he would just muddle on. Wish he had.

A bit of gumption, perhaps say when you think something is wrong at the time.

I'm annoyed tonight.

So sick of acting happy around him and not probing. Feel like I'm doing all the work and is there any point really? How does one go about making someone happy when they don't know what they want.

Read that you can't be responsible for someone else's happiness. I read all the divorce stuff and it say I should make a change but they are all stories about how show more affection, talk more. We did that so I've stopped the affection, still nothing.

I can't stand this self pity. All over the city there are homeless people and ill people and people being abused and all I can think of is myself and how awful it is that this happened to me.

I need to snap out of this, I'm scared when I do, that's it over. I just know we can get through this, I need to keep fighting, not persuading him, just fighting for him.

I'm actually sick of my own posts.

Hope everyone else is ok.

[JWD]

Hello. Been saying my affirmations all day. Sent a text asking if H wanted to meet me at the supermarket when he had finished and we would walk home (car broke down) He replied that he had his mum's car but asked if I wanted to meet him anyway. ( Baby Steps)

Affirmation of the day


I Accept
my Uniqueness
There is no competition and no comparison, for we are all different and meant to be that way.

I am special and wonderful.

I love myself.

[surd]

Hello and I hope things improve.
I see a lot of similarities with my situation. I'm only just past a week but much of what you have been doing I have also done.

In my case I can't get a real reason for my wife to want so much to leave me.

Wishing for good times for us all.

[JWD]

Wish we could open their heads surd and see inside.

Well we met at the supermarket. He seemed in a mood so I smiled and just carried on, (sound like a stepford wife). It seemed to work. He was almost normal.

He chatted away about his day without me asking first. At one point he even asked me if I was ok. Just said I was fine.

He ate dinner and seemed more relaxed so I said would you like to chat about how we are going to discuss things. He said we would talk later in the week about our relationship and if we got too emotional then we would leave it til seeing the counsellor. He then said we could go to the cinema. He hates the cinema so that is a bonus.

He has popped out to his mums.


How am I doing so far?

[JWD]

I'm feeling very weak about tomorrow. I'm worried by drinking I'll get too emotional. I kmow I need to keep up with friends but This one I'm meeting I don't want to tell. I can't face it. we're not that close and I worry that I'll lose it.

[Ageing Grace]

Poor JWD, you're going to hell and back evey day, aren't you?

It's great that the counselling went well, and also that your husband is responding constructively. Also brilliant that you're doing your affirmations & staying positive! It might not feel like it's working - but somebody who can be as funny as you are, even in the middle of despair, must be doing something right ;)

What you've said about his negativity when drunk makes me wonder if there's some unresolved issue bubbling away inside that nice husband of yours. I know it's unfashionable, but I do believe in vino veritas. Something like that would go a long way to explain why he can't put his finger on the source of his unhappiness. Luckily, such a thing is likely to come out in counselling so I hope you both keep going.

Don't go out with people who make you nervy, JWD - your "good front" is working overtime already! And don't drink if you feel nervy. You can always say you have a tummy upset - good excuse not to drink, and also to leave early.

Take good care of yourself. Remember, you're important :p

AG x

[JWD]

Thank You Grace.

We just had a small spat. He came in to say goodbye with his face tripping him like he had all the problems in the world. i shouted down to put the littter tray out as I'd forgot and he mumbled something about he would try without letting the cats escape. I jumped right out of bed and done it myself and said there, done.

He put on this face like I'd hurt his feelings and said he didn't mean anything about it. I know he probably didn't, I'm just getting very frustrated. Of course I apologised and now feel like I've blown my stupid, pleasanstville divorce bursting junk.

I need to control my impatience.

[JWD]

Ok putting things in perspective

Husband just sold a very stressful business
In a new job
Tells me he doesn't/doesn't know if he loves me
sleeping in separate rooms
Understands how I'm felling (thinks he does)but shut down emotionally.
No affection at all
Is coming to counselling
Is talking about how we will do our house up
Is still contacting me via text
still chatting about everything else but us
Still making us dinner every night
Is coming out with me later this week to discuss us, then go see a film.

its not all bad is it?
Not arguing or being nasty

[ken94]

Not bad at all indeed.
I think you have to be patient and understanding.
He is still in your house and is doing something about it.
Lots of people around in the forum have their other part out of their house and not willing to do something about it.
And don't forget he cooks diner for you every night and that is giving love.
Giving time is giving love.
Be hopeful time will help.

Ken

[JWD]

thanks Ken. He always cooked, it relaxes him. I suppose me giving him time is giving love. and washing his clothes. I'm not sure what else I can do without chasing and pressurising him?

thank you

[Sheila]

Thats certainly not all bad...there are lots of positives there.
You hang in there.
x

[JWD]

Hi Sheila, been worried about you. How are you?

[JWD]

Just realised Ken you said giving time is giving love. Two minds and all that.

[JWD]

Oh god, just read through someone's thread, a man whose wife left him. Exactly the same apart from o/h not left. Down to the two cats. All the way through the thread he said she wouldn't cheat and she denied it then, yep, she cheated.

H the other night fell asleep holding his phone, I don't see when he would get the time to have an affair.

Oh I'm running away with myself now.

Tell me to shut up

[jools]

Can't you get hold of his phone when he's had a few to drink and check it? - that's what I did. Getting jumpy about their phones and not leaving them lying around is not a good sign.

[JWD]

It's one of those google ones where is a pattern. You know, I no longer care if it's another woman.

You'll all think me crazy but a friend of a friend is a spiritualist medium and she just gave me a reading. She described my grand parents to a T and said they can all hear my prayers. Said that I was a very strong person and people around me love me and everyone is looking out for me.

She said a miracle is about to happen and I have a wish to make but to be careful what I wish for. She said that I have to stay positive and not shut the door on love. She didn't know if that meant H was soul mate or I would meet another.

I know people don't believe but I needed to hear it. I do believe. My grandpa has wrapped me up in a big bubble and protecting me.

I feel stronger. Everyone in Haven is looking out for me.

And she knew I had two cats HA so there, it's true. he he he


Right, off to have a shower so H actually thinks I've left the house in 3 weeks :-)

[ken94]

Maybe if you cook for him one day a nice diner like salmon then Strawberry and champagne.
I am quite surprised that he is the one asking you to go to the cinema; maybe you should propose him things he likes and do it wwith him. Surprise him.
Giving timeis giving love. But it isn't only in the way you said. You should give him time together too (not in front of the TV) but quality time. Go bowling with him or other things.

I am amazed he is still with you if he doesn't love you, it means he cares about you.

Ken

[jools]

She said a miracle is about to happen and I have a wish to make but to be careful what I wish for. She said that I have to stay positive and not shut the door on love. She didn't know if that meant H was soul mate or I would meet another.

I know people don't believe but I needed to hear it. I do believe. My grandpa has wrapped me up in a big bubble and protecting me.

I feel stronger. Everyone in Haven is looking out for me. I believe you JWD because I had a similar experience. The final wake up call for me was a letter that I honestly mistakenly opened which revealed a lot of huge financial lies that my H had been keeping from me. I kindof guessed at that point that if he'd lied about that then he could have lied about other things (ie - ow). Now here's the weird part - when I told my mum what had happened she asked when I'd opened the letter and it turned out that the night before she'd asked my (deceased) grandmother to help me as she knew I was going through similar to you right now. When I looked at the envelope again, the initial was clearly my H's and what's more he'd also left it for me to open cos he'd also mistakenly thought it was for me - weird! The following day I downloaded the incriminating phone bills and he left. But that thing you said about angels? -- It happened to me the next day when I went into work. There was a whole series of coincidences that unfurled and sorted many of my fears - one being that I was asked if I wanted to go back to work full time as someone was leaving. So many things happened that I just had this overwhelming feeling that I was being looked after - and I've continued to feel that way. So I completely believe what you say, and I reckon your granparents will do the same for you. :) (Now I'm officially mad too!)
Jools XXX

[JWD]

Ken I offered but he keeps saying no to dinner. It was me who said go out, I said we haven't been to a gig in ages etc. Haven't played the wii fit so I suggested that. He did say cinema. I thought, hmm you can't talk in the cinema but he said we will talk first. However, he does hate cinema so maybe he is trying.

Jools, it was so comforting. Think I said earlier in my thread that a friend she and (H don't like each other) anyway I was supposed to go out with her the night before it happened and had cold, anyway she called and left a message to meet up.

Two other people I haven't been in touch with for ages have asked to meet up too.

I think the angels are sending them :-)

Going to keep my note pat beside me and every dream I have, i'll write it down. I'll then produce my incriminating evidence HA HA. Can you imagine me 'aha that's what's going on' hehe

[JWD]

Just reflecting. since I've met my Husband, there has always been something going on that he focused thoughts on. His wife, she was the bad one,then his work, if only he didn't have that he would be happy, now me. Everything else is his life was great apart from these things. Maybe that is normal and we all do it?

Dunno, out with anger, in with love or is it in with love and out with anger? gonna bug me now.

[Ageing Grace]

there has always been something going on that he focused thoughts on. His wife, she was the bad one,then his work, if only he didn't have that he would be happy, now me. Everything else is his life was great apart from these things. Maybe that is normal and we all do it?

Hmmm. Yes, we all do it - if we don't know how to be responsible for our own feelings. If something shakes us up enough to start learning, we grow up.

In the process, we post here :p

[JWD]

:d.....................

[yogamad]

We have some similarities between us:

Husband is also:

Cooking and packing everything away afterwards
Showing no affection
Still wants to go out and have fun
talking to me but not about us
We're not sleeping in separate rooms but he's at one side of the bed and I'm right at the other (you could fit another person in between us!)
Making plans for the summer

So we do have positives to work on

[JWD]

He just came in to tell me it's not going to work. Said nothing makes me happy, and not accepted he has been married.


I listened to him and he just said sorry.

I said don't be sorry but don't say this is because of your ex, it's not fair because I never brought her up.

I know I wasn;t supposed to but that is not right. I said don't throw away our marriage because of these excuses. I didn't cry, plead or pressure much.

He said we would talk again.

Still looks and sounds confused but maybe i'm in denial.

What to do.

I'm very calm.

[Ageing Grace]

JWD.

I can see that you've come a very long way since the beginning of your thread, especially in the sense of gaining insight into Mr. JWD's complex thought processes. Hurrah for you! :)

There's a thing you mentioned earlier, which I'd like to ask you about if you don't mind?
You said you had a habit of losing it at times, when you'd tell him it's all over & you're finished. I don't think you've mentioned it since. Was there something about unresolved issues from your past, that made you a bit too ready to walk away?

I'm worried that you might be taking refuge in your old habit, here where everything's at stake.

From what you say, there is so much love between you it'd be a crime to pack it all in for the sake of old problems (his and yours) - that could easily be killed off, if you guys would only get them out in the open. Of course, that's the hard part!

Have you got any more counselling booked together? It's a safer place for this kind of thing.

Thinking of you. Take care - eat, sleep & stuff!
AG

[JWD]

Hi Grace, I am insecure and have been very badly treated. When I said I'm leaving it was when he had told me a stupid lie. We got over it. The other time was when I was very drunk I thought I had embarrassed him and I said do you want me to leave.

He held my hand so tight tonight. I love him with all my heart. I said I think you need to surely know why you want to walk away. He just gets so stressed when we talk about it.

I said I'm sorry you are stressed but I need to know so I can learn and move on. I said I don't want to sound like a shrink but you need to be sure too.

He doesn't know if he wants to go to counselling.

I said I wasn't ready to give up and that It wasn't from fear but from love. I told him he needs to tell me and not to worry about my feeling as I need to know. I told him I would be fine and that I would be fine and survive so that he wasn't afraid to open up.

I just can't believe this has happened.

My body is twitching but my heart beat is steady and I'm not crying. I don't know if this is some sort of early MLC or if I'm in denial.

I asked him to even call a friend or his sister for his own health but he won't.

[Ageing Grace]

Ahhh, it was only twice? That's not a habit :D

I'm so sorry for what you're going through, JWD. And quite worried about you. Twitching is not good! (been there, I should know...) What's an MLC? And why are you still up?! Haven't you got work tomorrow??

Horlicks, or hot milk with honey - and whisky ;)
Lavender pillow.
100 slow, deep breaths.
Images of your favourite place :)

Sweet dreams.
AG

[JWD]

I'm on annual leave but been off 2 weeks before it. Early mid life crisis

Got chest pain now and my head is splitting. He isn't adamant I said well what happens now and he said don't know, we'll talk tomorrow.

[JWD]

I'm not giving up. I'm simply going to listen to him, face my own demons and ask why he feels it won't work and we can't move past this.

I have to. I'll never be at peace until I know I have tried everything.

[Raymond]

You have to know JWD. This has been going on a long time now. You need to know whether you have a husband or not. 'I don't know' reveals a dangerous lack of commitment which is what is needed for the marriage to progress. Every wife needs to know whether the husband is in the marriage or not. It's a respect he owes you. Soft pedalling or back peddling doesn't work. Marriage is a vital commitment and where it is there everything is a lot more relaxed in spite of imperfections.

Raymond

[Flubber]

HI JWD,
I am really pulling for you. If you read my latest thread you will see that we have reached the end game and it absolutely gut wrenching.
You have to work on yourself and let him do his own thing no matter how hard it is for you. Keep your self respect. He is in a position where your opinion about the situation is irrelevent. He is more likely to listen to people who he values at present to tell him to sort his marriage out. Unfortunatly it would seem that people stupidly offer people support rather than protest to them to go and work things out. I have sent my wife tonnes of info about why divorce is the absolute last option, all to no avail. My opinions are now outside of her belief system, so therefore no matter what I say, she disagrees with it even if I present loads of proof.
Make him think that you are moving on, and that in future things will be on your terms, - I know this is difficult. How I wish my wife would listen. Don't badger him about making him try again. He has to experience the fact that he wants to try again. Even then this might not work.
People think the grass is greener when in the majority of cases it isn't. We all have to learn this the hard way!!!

Good luck

Flubs

[JWD]

I do need so much to know. He keeps saying he doesn't know so I said then how do you know it's not working.

My friends say it's been an affair emotional or physical. Counsellor said he doesn't think it's a MLC or depression. Just confused.

All the books say don't push but I'm going crazy here.

I said to him that iIm over the worst and just to tell me but still he denies affair.

[JWD]

thanks flubber. His mum said once if two people are not right for each other then they should part and she is very religious. I'm worried that he thinks it's ok to do that. She loves me but must love son more.

He is the last man on earth I would imagine having an affair.

[JWD]

Right, I think the whole cyber, virtual and spirit world now know what has happened and each with their own opinion. The only two that don't seem to know are H and I.

Therefore, no more worrying for a couple of hours til I sleep. I'm just going to have to go with the flow because I'm not quite sure what my next move is.

really looking forward to going out Sat night, just chilaxing.

speak soon.

[Flubber]

Thats the spirit.
Don't give up and say that if 2 people aren't right for each other then they should split. You were obviously right at one stage.
Make him understand what he is missing my DEMONSTRATING that you are strong and are moving on. This is the only way that he is likely to reflect and change his mind.
Also it's not going to happen in a short time span, so don't keep asking him how things are going. Let him come to you. If it works , great, if not then you will have worked on yourself to such an extent that you will be able to manage that with more confidence.

Flubs

[JWD]

You're right flubs. and if there is someone is the back ground, it will put pressure on him and that will turn sour. fnar.

I don't want to push him out before I'm ready. I'm going to really start getting myself out and stop crying. What happens happens.

I forgive myself for my contribution and I'm learning from it. I don't need him to grow myself.

you stay strong too.

i still believe in love and I hope that never changes.

Ok one more para thought and thats me done.

Horror of horrors if he has got someone pregnant. That happened to my mum in her first marriage.

Right, that's me done. :-)

[Flubber]

JWd,
The more you think about things like that, the more you start to belive them. If you go looking you will always find something in your mind that doesn't add up, when in reality, it will be nothing.

Block him from your mind, and be selfish to your needs for once

[JWD]

Will do flubber. I'll be fine.

[Ageing Grace]

Very, very good advice from Flubber here. Keep re-reading it! (Previous page as well.)

It's way past time you started joyfully giving & receiving love to yourself, Ma'am!!

Go on: you know you're lovely :p

[JWD]

FLUBS, EVERYONE..... YOU'D BE PROUD OF ME

Let me get comfy....

Right, tension was in the air, cats were look darting about, the wind could be heard outside and a car pulled up on the drive...snort.




Well I was a big, brave girl. We had dinner, bought me mini sausages again, ate dinner and I just came upstairs.

He came in sat down with a big sigh and said I really don't know what to say to you. I smiled and said it's ok, I understand. He just stared at me. he said what will we do about counselling. I said Don't worry about it, i'll cancel it. He stared again and then said well I think it would be beneficial. I said ok then, whatever makes you comfortable. He sat for a while and I said nothing, he said I'm sorry and I said don't be, it's not just your fault.

Let the mind games commence kidding

Then he left. Now I know it seems like I'm giving in, I'm not. I just didn't see the point when he obviously doesn't know what he wants. I'm tired, I'm emotionally drained and I'm starting to detach. I will always love him, I really will but I need to protect myself. I've lost loads of weight and my body is twitching, my eyes are all puffy and my nose is chapped from blowing it. Pretty picture eh.

I'm really looking forward to going out and getting to know me again.

I'll be back on here teary soon no doubt but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Couldn't have done it without you all. xx

[JWD]

Very, very good advice from Flubber here. Keep re-reading it! (Previous page as well.)

It's way past time you started joyfully giving & receiving love to yourself, Ma'am!!

Go on: you know you're lovely :p

Thanks you Grace, you're not so bad yourself :-) I can't get smilies :-(

[Raymond]

You are absolutely right JWD. It takes two to tango and until he is doing it nothing is going to happen. It's his loss if he doesn't but I don't think you are going to live under it for much longer.

Raymond

[JWD]

Thanks Raymond.

[dave123]

I'm really looking forward to going out and getting to know me again.


Take this positive note and keep using it whenever things get low again. Your partner needs to reconnect with you if you are to have a future together. Seeing you detach more, and more confident can only make him wonder what he'd lose in this situation...

Take care, have fun, and put yourself number 1!

Dave

(p.s. emoticons are available if you "go advanced" instead of "quick reply" ;)

[JWD]

ahhaaaaaaaaaa ;) thank you. You still taking care of you I hope.

[Flubber]

Well Done JWD,
Now don't unravel this hard work by making the mistakes you have for the last few weeks.
Stay strong, just like you were with last night. Trust me- it will blow his mind eventually

Fulbs

[georgie]

Good Luck JWD - you are further down the road then I am and you have been wiser, I'll try and take inspiration from the huge progress you are making, even if you're not ready to give yourself complete credit for it yet. I feel a little better tonight, my partners parents have been wonderful to me for the past couple of days so I'm feeling supported. Tomorrow they are taking my kids off for the weekend, so I'll be facing a day on my own - which should be a positive, but I am afraid of the lonely empty house at the end of the day - I'll try and catch a movie. These posts have all been a great help - thanks to all of you.

[JWD]

Well went out last night. He saw I was getting ready and asked if I was going out and where to. He then came up to tell me some story about the cats. All very friendly and relaxed.

I went out and when came home he was in.

This morning he asked how my night was and told him it was good. I didn't ask about his.

He said he would be going to gym then football today.

While I was getting changed he left. He always used to say goodbye :-(

Anyway, looking forward to seeing my friend tonight.

Hope you are all well

[JWD]

I'm quite worried now. . He has just came home and went straight to room. I said what's wrong and he said nothing. He is sitting in a darkened room.

I went in and said i'm really worried about you. He said why? I said you are so unhappy and I don't know how to help. He said i'm pissed off but wouldn't say why. Then got angry and told me he was fine. very snappy with me.

now I don't know if he is depressed which is why our marriage is in trouble or if he is depressed because of me?

spoke with his mum today, she called me. He said to her we had been to counselling and he thought it helped. That was on the Mon and on the thurs was when he said we're not going to work but still wanted to go to counselling?

I asked if he was going out and he said later.

[Ageing Grace]

now I don't know if he is depressed which is why our marriage is in trouble or if he is depressed because of me?

Stop mind-reading!!

You have enough reading to do on your own mind - which at least stands a chance of success :D He'll tell you sooner or later.

Hang on to that PMA, JWD ... and any other acronyms you fancy ;)
Take care of yourself, relax this weekend as much as you can.

Love,
AG x

[JWD]

thanks grace.

Right, must remember I can't control another persons feelings but I can control my own.

Back to the drawing board. Back to 'act happy' :rolleyes:

[JWD]

I'm really not coping well at all. H is still out, it;s like he hates me. I just wish I could say why. I've really looked at our relationship and I can't find any clues. His friends must know by now because he is staying out all the time now.

It's mental torture. The longer this is going on, the worse I'm getting. I wish he would stop being a coward. I wish I didn;t care

[georgie]

JWD I know how you're feeling. My H promised he'd call me to talk last night but of course he had more important things to do and avoiding has always been easier. They are cowards - trying to keep their options open for as long as they possibly can. They are not showing love or respect, just selfishness. It's their problem, they are throwing away love and commitment the only things that really matter in life. Love yourself, see him for what he really is not the person you hope he is, maybe if we can both be strong enough to do that they may actually see themselves for what they are too, and then they will actually do something about it other then cover their eyes with their hands and hope we cant see them. We deserve love and respect, we have to at least give it to ourselves. xxx

[JWD]

So true. Think I'm a bit of an idealist. I can see him hating himself for this whole sorry business. Such a coward.

I'm so sick of pandering. Really, what is the deal? If you don;t love someone and can't find a way to love them, then go. What's he hanging around for? Such disrespect. So selfish. Which begs the question, why am I putting up with it.

All the financial security in the world doesn't make up for this bull. Hidden money which I found. My friend said I should take some but I can't bring myself to do that. Then I'm just as deceitful as him.

His facebook profile does not state relationship, I made it up for him fool that I am. Can't remember if I put married, sure I did. It said personal profile updated. Need to stop looking at it.

I'm not even going to ask where he is. Why bother

[Raymond]

This drifting must be very hard for you. Georgie is right about love and commitment. A man definitely needs that when the going gets tough. People will always be different to each other but if one had all the time in the world to fall in love, to think about it, to marry and make the vows then we need to go through with it all the way before God. That's how I see it. The feelings are great but there are times when the love on purpose and commitment come into their own. It is always rewarded overwhelmingly. The wife has to do the same I would think. The husbands faults must come to the surface often as we are far from perfect.

This I don't know if I love you business is pretty pathetic from I am hearing.

Raymond

[JWD]

It is pathetic. It's getting harder and harder. I asked how he feels about us and he said I don't know. It's driving me crazy. I said that is not good enough and he shouted well it will just have to do won't it. Had to stop myself calling him a coward because I don't want to get into nasty words with each other.

He then said sorry, he knows that wasn't nice but that I'm pressuring him and why can't I just wait for counselling. I pointed out that he hadn't done any of the things counsellor suggested and he just shrugs his shoulders.

Said he wasn't depressed just didn't know how he felt.

I wish I had kept up with not approaching him. All I want to do in go in and cuddle up but that's no needy. Arghhhhhh

I know I'm pushing and pushing and he is moving further and further. Why can't I just accept that I may never know and that maybe I've been immature and naive about our whole marriage?

[jools]

JWD, I so recognise everything that you say here. I went through it all for years! Trying to follow all of the advice on various websites, e-books etc. Don't push them, act natural, keep it upbeat and positive, trying to help his "deprssion", wanting to just go to him and cuddle - and then worrying that I was appearing too needy etc etc... And the old classic "I don't know" when you press them for answers. And then there were the times that I'd go out with friends and hope that he'd wondetr what I was up to. I'd misinterpret his questions as signs that he cared. And now, nearly three years since we split, and feeling much happier I realise the truth of it all.

It doesn't matter which rule book you follow, or how you behave - the end result will be the same. They know what they want because as you've noticed they're quite selfish little sh**s. Half the time the delaying tactics are due to them not having the gumption to be honest. They'll do what they want to do when they want to do it.
I know I'm pushing and pushing and he is moving further and further. Why can't I just accept that I may never know and that maybe I've been immature and naive about our whole marriage?Stop blaming yourself. He's the one pushing the two of you apart! And he's the one being immature. The only thing you're guilty of is trying to save your marriage. How dare he mess with your emotions like this and put you through this hell. Whatever any of us say, you'll find your own way through this - but you will be happy again. :) Promise.
Jools XXX

[JWD]

Thank you Jools. Feel such a fool for thinking he would never hurt me like this. I think because I don't recognise him any more, AT ALL, that I just don't know who or what I'm dealing with.

I have such hope that we can get over this together. He is being very selfish and he knows it and I think that is why he is being snappy. Think he is maybe a bit ashamed of himself and feeling guilty?

Thanks again.

[JWD]

Right. Given myself a talking to. No more victim, no more of it. friend suggested I was going to go to a looney bin, just when I was about to point out all her miserable relationships, stopped myself and shielded that negativity. Also very aware of karma at the minute so being on my best behaviour :-)

Right what is not working is my self-pity
what worked very briefly was my happy, act if attitude, well It got a daze in my direction from H

I'm staying positive, I believe in my marriage and I am going to restore it.

I believe and trust there was no one else so I'm going to really have a look at our marriage from the last year and see if I can come up with any signs that he wasn't happy. Far easier for him just to open his mouth and actually speak but we;ll gloss over that for now.

I'm sure that I won't be posting here there has been an affair.

I'm staying positive and I'm going to start by changing my attitude. My own mother had avoided me lol. need to spread the misery amongst different friends so I don't wear them all out.

Please and light

[JWD]

Oh my god, I was right all along. EA with his employee. He said it started jan, they kisses. I was so calm then he said he had texted today to see how her day was. while i'm losing my mind. He said don't tell her husband, don't do that to her. I lost the plot and slapped him and threw him out

[JWD]

said he doesn't know if he loves her. I've probably pushed him to her now but I couldd't handle him here. Texting her when he has done this.

[georgie]

Why on earth do they lie and lie, it's the lies that really hurt, that are the ultimate betrayal. JWD do not worry about whether you've 'pushed him to her' do you really want to spend you life with a liar and a cheat, and his concern on discovery is that you don't drop her in it with her husband - what about "oh my god I'm so sorry for causing you all this pain?"

[Raymond]

Makes sense now doesn't it. Someone else involved. Heres you racking your brains to know what you did wrong while he is having an emotional affair. No wonder he doesn't know what he wants. The waters are really muddy. At least you know the truth now JW.

Raymond

[JWD]

I don't know her address, just said I did so she would tell him. Never in the world would I imagine my husband could cause me so much pain. Tried to drive me crazy.

How on earth do I start getting over this

[JWD]

He actually said to the counsellor when I said I felt it was an emotion affair that I always think the worst. I'm so stupid

[jools]

JWD
I'm in work but just had to look in on you. So sorry. Like I said - the similarities between us are uncanny. I also swore there wouldn't be anyone else. Used to say to him "If there WAS someone else then all of this would make so much more sense". And in the end it all falls into place. They're such cowards! You didn't push him into anything and you're not stupid. You just trusted him. Gotta go now, but I'll look in later. Don't worry - you'll get through this and be happy again. Promise!
Jools XXXX

[JWD]

I don't want to become bitter.

Did I do the right thing putting him out. He would just have driven me mad in here. I think he was trying to do that so I would leave. I'm so worried now.

[jools]

Just got in. Different people would do different things in your situation so what I say is only my interpretation. Yes - you did the right thing to put him out. If you let him stay to discuss things you're not gonna get the truth because that's not how "they" (the likes of your H, mine and Georgie's Hs) operate. He'll only say all the stuff that he thinks you want to hear - or the stuff that'll give him the easiest ride. As has already been proven - he's not capable of being straight. And like you said - how dare he worry about the OW's feelings when it's you that's been put through the mental anguish.

Personally, I'd say sod him and her and tell the OW's H what's been going on. You'll soon see the lustre wear off their exciting relationship.
How on earth do I start getting over this Believe me, you will. But it won't be easy. It'll take a while for your brain to reprogram itself. Mine took about two and a half years before I felt 100% like my old self. You have good days and bad days till the good days outnumber the bad days and gradually you heal. I've got a lovely new man that i've been seeing for 18 months and now I look at my ex and wonder what I ever saw in him. And as I watch him go bankrupt for the second time I'm so relieved that we're no longer together. I don't say that lightly as I hate the fact that my family's been broken up - but I am happy. I've done things that I never thought I'd have the courage to do when I was with my H - travelled half way across the world on my own. My H's little relationship didn't last. Think she found him too expensive. I actually feel sorry for him these days. Sorry - I know this isn't about me - I'm just trying to give you a sense of optimism for your future.

One thing I never did though was allow myself to even consider taking him back as I don't believe a leopard can change its spots. Once you see that ugly side and realise they're capable of things that you didn't think they were - then it's best to move on. I just focussed completely on getting over him and rebuilding. Now I'm glad I did. Keep us updated. Be strong - you can do this.
Luv Jools XXX

[Bubble]

Dearest JWD,

I don't really have any advice but didn't want to read and run..... I'm so sorry to hear your news. But for what its worth I think you definately did the right thing by throwing him out. What else could you do? Like Jools said, if you let himstay you probably wouldn't get the truth anyway at the moment.

It probably doesn't feel like it, but you WILL get through this. You sound like a lovely woman who hasn't done anything wrong - all you have done is love this man. I know its all very raw, but I think maybe now is the time to cut contact with him. Its going to be hard, but its the only way you will start to heal and it will make him realise he cannot treat you like this. I know you will have to talk at some point, but a period of no contact will allow the space to work through your emotions without him messing with your head. Like you have kindly said to me - you deserve so much better.

Take care,
BubbleX

[JWD]

Thank you bubble. I'm annoyed I slapped his big fat face

[JWD]

He just came for stuff, I wouldn't let him in. Gave him his stuff. He said through the door that they were two people going through the same thing and were helping one another. I told him that perhaps talking to each others partners would have been better.


Said he was sorry. I said he needed to pay counsellor fee if he wasn't going and he said if you want me to go I'll go. I said Only go if you want to go and he said well i'm not.

I told him to go away and he shouted i'll text you.

so now we're back to i just didn't love you.

Saying it's not like that re affair. I said not like what. He doesn't know. What is the point really. When all you get is I don't know
__________

[Raymond]

Course it's like that with an emotional affair. Any affair is wrong and a betrayal if you are married. Maybe he is saying that he has not slept with her yet. What a moral person, not. You are right he should be talking to you not her.

I suppose you have to wait and see what he is going to text but I would keep the distance while you have it. I don't know business is not going to help now. Keep your distance JWD unless there are undeniable signs that repentance is there and a willingness to repair the trust, plus a real commitment to the marriage. Don't accept anything less now. This may well be the end but he seems to want to say something so I suppose you should listen, but my advice is to keep the above conditions in place and do not go for this nebulous "I don't know existence". No good marriage carries on like that.

Raymond

[JWD]

I agree Raymond. Yes he was depressed but I get depressed in my job, don't go running for some stupid buzz. I'll keep my distanced, let her listen to his constant work moanings.

Suppose not it's out takes a bit of the buzz away.

You know, I could forgive it, maybe even understand it, but he saw what I was going through, I actually said it is x and he sat in that counsellors room and ran me into the ground and said how I always think the worst.

I don't know how someone can do that. I just could not lie like that and I hope I never will be able to.

He is a big baby and fate will deal with him accordingly.

[Raymond]

The lying is very difficult and doesn't encourage trust. I am wondering what he is going to say now it's out. I suppose you have to see what he says, but I guess it's not going to be up to much judging by the past. He is being very unfair on you. You will have a fight to forgive him, but you don't want to take on a bitterness which will affect you not him. That can be a real danger also that some do not appear to be aware of.

Raymond

[JWD]

Well he said its not what I think. Who knows what is going on. I'm more concerned about how someone I love could do this. How could I have been so stupid? Are there no people with morals left in this world?

I just know he is going to start the 'she didn't understand me routine' and the 'we just weren't right'

Bitterness is an awful emotion isn't it. worse than jealousy.

He is lazy, I know he won't even try.

Anyway, time to start repairing me mentally and physically.

At lease I now know. Sad thing is, he still wants to lie and blame me.

Nice guy right enough eh. Well, I actually believe he hates himself.

I'm sure some other mug will soothe his pathetic, childish ego.

[JWD]

Well he said its not what I think. Who knows what is going on. I'm more concerned about how someone I love could do this. How could I have been so stupid? Are there no people with morals left in this world?

I just know he is going to start the 'she didn't understand me routine' and the 'we just weren't right'

Bitterness is an awful emotion isn't it. worse than jealousy.

He is lazy, I know he won't even try.

Anyway, time to start repairing me mentally and physically.

At lease I now know. Sad thing is, he still wants to lie and blame me.

Nice guy right enough eh. Well, I actually believe he hates himself.

I'm sure some other mug will soothe his pathetic, childish ego.

[georgie]

JWD your posts have indicated that you are a fair, loving and loyal person, you have shown remakable restraint, patience and tolerance - these are all wonderful characteristics, now I think you need to show yourself some love. I wish I had your restraint, but sadly I am an emotional infant and have made the mistake of thinking I can persuade my H that he can be loving and committed to me, when it has to come from him and him alone. I'm reading a book I'd like to recomend it's called 'The language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. Jools, I hope I follow in your footsteps. If my H came to me saying that he was committed to making things work I'd really give it my all, but once this wound heals I don't know that I could take the risk of going back with him. Anyway JWD - there are still moral people in the world that believe in honesty and committment, we just need to open our eyes and recognise the people that don't.

[JWD]

Thank you GEORGIE, I'm no angel but I am loving, loyal and committed. I can't see what he wanted unless he just finds her sexy. Don't know.

So disappointed in him.

I'm so frightened, stupid stuff like how good he was with computers and I just really respected him. I love his family, his mum. I hate how this has upset both our parents. I hate being a victim of infidelity. What am I so ashamed of.

I think I'll never ever laugh or trust again. That worries me. Why trust? How do people put up a brick wall? How do you become emotionally detached? How to you ever stop this happening again when all you really have to go on is that you complained when you got a pineapple cake????? incidently, I hate pineapple cakes. (I know there is more to it) joke

Does he think I'm a pig?
What will his friends say?
how will I ever cope meeting them. I'll need to move Country. I can't face going by his work on the bus.

I imagined a family and him coming home at lunch time to see our baby. How PATHETIC.

WHEN AM I GOING TO STOP WHINNING AND MOANING AND CRYING AND HATING AND THINKING HOW UNFAIR IT ALL IS.

I don't even hate him, I hate what has happened.

Will I ever accept this. Look how well everyone else is doing, they're not posting everywhere moaning but look at me. All poor me poor me. I am in such a rush to get over this. I want a memory wipe.

Does he think I'm ugly, boring, stupid? Is it because because because. ,,,,

Who will get the friends? will we need to draw up agreements to want pubs etc we can visit,.

Who gets the cats ME

Need to let go.

Oh great, just noticed my affirmations were due before midnight. 40 per day for 40 days and I'm doing 3 different ones. Need to start all over now LOL LOL

My friend is taking me to hers for the weekend for dvd's, chocolate and cuddles.

I feel like I need to spread the misery around them all so I don't over do it with each of them.

Everyone thinks I'm strong but I'm not. I've been shattered into a thousand pieces and the only thing keeping me going is knowing my mum needs me to be ok.

And then the statistics for divorce, wife battering and death are so dire. Who will I be left with? And here is me saying don't get involved with a divorced man, totally forgetting I may be a divorced woman. Then by time I'm over this, I'll be ready maybe for something new, then I will need at least three years to check him out and by then, my body clock will be ticking and I'll need to wait another couple years before having a baby. wahhhhhhhhh

Right, trying very hard to see a positive in all this. Very, very very good friends. One very surprising one was hasn't come through for me but she does have family. Just don't need the texts saying that she would love to come over but she is spending a family night in with her content little life meow lol

Think I have the longest thread running too.

Right the priority here is no begging, crying, manipulation, pressure, anything that makes me appear weak.

Maybe one day I'll understand the lies he told me and the hurt and understand how he could have watched me self destruct like that but I doubt it. awful how someone can allow themselves to get in a position like that.

Thing is, if I did all this at the start, he would have walked anyway. Divorce bursting.com will not be impressed. They say let spouse live there til they decide but I just couldn't do that.

Wish I hadn't slapped him, that was wrong. Though for a min he was going to slap me back.

Rant over for now

thanks georgie

[georgie]

JWD - if you had a tick box for everything in that last post I'd be putting a tick in every one of them. They just blithely walk away seemingly without a thought, our minds are whirring with all the what about this, what about that's.... The weird part is that I feel sorry for my H and think he is in a mess. We have two kids and I'm freaking out about them being split between two homes, because we've been far from family I've been the sole primary carer and letting go even briefly will take some huge effort for me. I thought he was above the lies and cheating, I really thought he had integrity, it has really rocked me. I was so anxious when things started to crumble that I made myself ill. Now it's time to start getting better, take small steps, don't try to take on everything at once and be overwhelmed - just one little step at a time. I'm thinking of getting myself a board and putting on it little bits of paper with things I need to sort out written on them, every time I achieve one I'll put it in an achievement bag every time I decide to discard one I'll put it in a discard bag - then I can maybe see more clearly where and how I'm going.

[JWD]

You mail me if you ever get too down. Well we don't have kids so i'll never see him again. Maybe that is for the best. All my friends are blaming men, but it's not men, it's selfish, emotional dead beat humans.

No self control. I was looking for stuff and came across so many gadgets, phones, games, who needs all that materialistic rubbish. BIg baby. Oh the shock of this happening to us. I used to boast about how wonderful he is.

Always some drama isn't there. I'm not going to run him down anymore, I just look bitter and cheap. I'll just then my friends do that for me :-D

[JWD]

On the bright side, my free tarot reading claims I'm about to accept a marriage proposal woo hoo

[dave123]

Hi JWD,

That was an awful lot to get off your chest in one go. Well done for verbalising it all and i can tell you that most of it resonated with me, and probably will with everyone else on here in some way or another.

You're not whining, your letting out your feelings.

My brother really didn't come through for me (still hasn't) even though i turned to him first. After my wife left the first person i spoke to was Relate and the second was my bro'. He divorced and had a son, and now many years later he is re-married and has another son. I needed him to tell me that it was all going to be OK (especially having sons) and he has just let me down ever since.

I was really worried about sharing out the misery too! I still am to a certain extent. I think that is why i have found the counseling so good because i have a venue and an audience to listen to me, AND the counselor doesn't know me so i can be 100% honest an they can offer some professional advice.

I am nowhere near the finished article with all this but the baby steps we take each day will eventually take us to a new and better tomorrow. I went to an al-anon meeting on Sunday and the topic happened to be "Brighter Tomorrows" and it really helped me to realise that i need to try to make the better tomorrows happen, i have to allow opportunities past my guard, i can choose to be closed off to protect myself but where will that leave me in a month or a year or 5 years? Probably alone. The two best cliches that came out of it were the "a journey of a thousand mile starts with one step" and "if you don't change direction you'll end up where your headed", normally i hate these kind of phrases but they actually do have a good meaning if you approach them with an open mind. My new direction is happiness with myself, and my son and i am taking steps in that direction now everyday, all the while hoping for a brighter tomorrow.

I think you do have the longest thread though ;-), well done for getting things out and it's good that we all have a place to share our problems and help each other in anyway we can!

Take care,

Dave

[Ageing Grace]

Hi, JWD

I'm very pleased to see you getting a bit angry! I was really worried about you for a while there; all that convincing yourself to be calm & happy was going to drive you crazy ... You need to be honest with your own feelings.
In your place, I'd be feeling humungously pissed off!!

You finally got your explanation, as little as it was. I really do understand your shock; I've been there. To think of the agony you put yourself through while waiting for it :mad:

Listen. This doesn't mean there was anything wrong with you. It doesn't even mean he likes her more than you. It's just some weird process of his and there's nothing anyone can do about it. First it was his wife, then his job, then his wife (you) ... guess whose fault it will all be next time? :rolleyes:

How long was he with his ex for?

Hold up there, JWD, you've now got official permission to be TOTALLY self-centred!

Hugs,
AG

[JWD]

Thanks Dave and grace. they met at 17 seperated at 28 I think. She left and he did nothing. Should have seen the warning signs.

[JWD]

he just sent a text think we should go to counselling. now i'm thinking either his mum has told him or he thinks it will go in his favour for divorce.

Hey, he's right, I'm never happy be it pineapple cakes or counselling lol

[JWD]

or maybe it's so he can get in the house. manipulating

[JWD]

Well, I have to say I'm looking rather trim these days :-)

Get this £250 for a lawyer for 1 hour eeeeek. How on earth can you justify that? I'm surprised anyone gets divorced at that price.

[JWD]

I've taken off my wedding ring and hid all my pictures. It was too upsetting seeing them.

[jkk]

Hi JWD - such a difficult time your having!

It's important at a time like this not to make hasty, rash, decisions regarding your future. At the moment your life is in such a whirlpool it is important to take time to adjust to all that has happened. Wait until your emotions and feelings have settled down before making concious choices and decisions.

There is no rush! Take your time!

Thinking of you

jkk

[georgie]

My friend commented at the height of my emotional turmoil that "at least I was losing weight and looking terrific", at the time I thought how bloody insensitive is that - don't ever volunteer in Ethiopia sister - but now I'm thinking yes, that is one silver lining. Do you have to do the whole lawyer thing already? I have a ring that I move from one hand to the other- it's currently on my left hand, I feel bad about taking it off still. I'm trying to avoid making any kind of Financial decisions yet. First sort out the emotional then when more rational deal with the other stuff - of course by then he may have sold our house to buy himself a MLC yaught or something, but according to my self help books a higher power will provide what I need today, if that higher power turns out to be social security I will be really peeved!!

[JWD]

lol georgie, I just miss the bracket for legal aid too.

I'm running scared to be honest. Wish I'd listened to my mum when she said I should have insisted on joint account.

Thanks JKK, the appointment for counsellor was already made. I'm worried its a little soon to go with him as I'm still angry.

[jkk]

Look at your insurance documents, many household and car policies include free legal advice, applicable to any subject. One of my building insurance even includes cover for counselling!

jkk

[JWD]

Really, I never even thought of that. Thanks JKK

[JWD]

hank you Ashyah, your post has just confirmed a little for me.
I too had mine on a pedestal, no one is perfect but it's going to be very difficult for me to get over the lies. I think when I was so hurt and still he didn't admit it, that's going to be the toughie.

Anyway. What a day! I cried most of the day. Come 5 I forced myself into shower, put on all my make up,plenty of benefit erase paste, made a new hole in my belt (yipee) and headed off.

I have no idea what happened on the way there but I felt different. I just decided that I didn't really enjoy these self pity feeling I have been having. I don't know how to describe it.

Anyway, didn't think he would show but he did, looked miserable, was very awkward.

We went into the room and straight away the counsellor said I looked different, he said I looked happy. I'm not really sure I was acting?

anyway H wouldn't start so I explained events of discovering ea or as h puts it, the helping each other out friendship hmmmm.

We discussed how H was feeling, he didn't know so wasn't much help. He has felt like this since October but thought it would all go away. He can't understand why he is not happy with a great person like me.

I discussed how I didn't feel bitter but acknowledged that I could become bitter/jealous in future. Counsellor asked what I wanted from this, I said I wanted to learn from mistakes, at this point H butted in and quite scathingly said, you always blame yourself. I said well it was quite difficult not to search for reasons and I believed you when you said there was no one else.

Anyhoo we managed to all laugh at a few things, he wouldn't elaborate on how him and o/w began having feeling. I said is it still going on? He said he told her that they had to stop contact and she needs to try sort out her marriage as they had already F*****d up one marriage. I said how will you cope with not texting her because it has obviously been big part of your life for past few months. He said he would tell her that he will not contact her til we know what we are doing. I DON'T BELIEVE HIM.

He also said I was nasty about a couple of things re ex. It was a fair point and I managed to explain reasons and why it seemed nasty, but it was true from his point of view.

He didn't want to make another appointment til he had time to think about things.


Now, I can't put my finger on it, but my instinct tells me that he is manipulating me, why I don't know. I think it is a guilt thing because he told his sister but did not tell them about o/w.

I really think he is manipulating me and the counsellor.

So now I'm officially in limbo, dark, GAL.

I really need to use this time to think about what I want because, to be honest, I'm not sure.

I feel good, I know there will be bad days but I'm truly going to get on with my life.

Things I need to ask myself.

1. Do I think I will trust him again?
2. Do I want to live my life with someone who can hide unhappiness for months and now show it?
3. Have I lost respect for him?
4. Was I actually happy?
5. Do I want to live with the fear this could happen again?
6. Do I actually love him, or fear being on my own

Not going to rush these, will take my time and really get to see how I feel.

I know I will be cool with the no contact,think it's pride because of o/w but also because If we do decide to get back together, I must know that it is for the right reasons and not pity. I will have to discuss house stuff but I'll leave a note along with mail.

I'm not sure why I think he is manipulating me. Maybe for house, or to say 'look everyone I've tried but it's not working, or maybe he wants me to make the decision.

I think he is very selfish but I'm sure he has many thoughts about me but 'he just doesn't know' lol.

Now I know it could be mlc, counsellor seemed to hint at that, and I know it can't be easy for him either and must be horrible to hate yourself but I'm going to be selfish and think of myself because it's sink or swim and I need to Pull myself out of this.

Will read again the books and come up with some goals but they will be for me, not H.

Still can't quite believe this is me talking about H but it is me and it is happening to me so I'm going to deal with it with as much dignity as I can.

I like me, I'm not such a bad person. And I'm NOT A VICTIM AND NEVER WILL BE.

You people are great people, all of you.

[Ageing Grace]

That was a bunch of stuff, JWD!

It looks like you're getting back in touch with your own feelings at last - I know it's going to be all ups, downs & confusion for a bit, but the tone of your last post was really reassuring. Well done you :)

I messed about with my rings for ages! The ex was far more decisive, he came to the house while I was out & left his on the hall table ... I had mine left hand, right hand, on a necklace, in my pocket :rolleyes: Then I sold them.

JKK's advice is good, most insurance policies - and credit cards - have a free legal advice service AND DISCOUNTS on legal consultations. Also, there may be one as part of your employee benefits - worth a check.

As you're finding out, ignorance is terrifying. Getting legal advice does not mean you're plunging blindly into divorce, it means you're finding out about your options. "How divorce works" isn't exactly on the school cirriculum, is it? I was amazed how little I knew ... nobody else knew much either, that's why I saw a specialist lawyer (for the record, she gave me half an hour free on the phone and charged £80 for an hour face-to-face).

One thing you should realise: Fault plays no part in settlements, it hasn't done for decades.

Definitely trust your instincts about your 'manipulated' feeling, JWD.

This might be time to take a thorough inventory of everything - savings, debts, income, outgoings, pensions, insurances, the lot. If you can't face it, get someone who knows you both - and whom you trust - to do it with you.

Again, this is not preparing for divorce: it's getting rid of uncertainty, so you can focus on the less-manageable aspects of your situation, such as your emotions! In any case, these are things we should all do all the time - but often don't.

From what you said about your counselling session, you did great :)
How sad that your man couldn't bring himself to be as honest as you were.

Please take care of yourself.
AG xx

[JWD]

Thanks grace, I actually contacted a lawyer free and my work do give half hour free. It's one less thing to worry about. I've taken all documents and going to copy him. Something is just not right. We were due to see a financial advisor so I'm bit concerned that they will hide something but lawyer said they can trace these things.

Also, he forgets how he used to confide in me re accountants etc.

His problem is that he doesn't want to be judged. It's like he will say oh we were finished before I went with her. Well, I'm not having that. It's rubbish and it's very unfair but I'll bide my time.

LIES LIES LIES. Can't stand it, it's a disgusting trait and it's very sad that he couldn't admit it even when I said from the start that it was what it turned out to be. It's not my problem though, in fact, i'm not even going to tell him his faults. He can just keep making them all over again.

Think he mistook love and loyalty for stupidity. He would like to think that I'm going to disappear into the background, but I'm not hehehe.

I really think he though I'd leave. To be honest, just too lazy to pack up stuff and squat somewhere.

Counsellor was great, said this is the end of our relationship as we know it and up to us to decide to start a new one.

He didn't offer a lift home but that's cool, I'll need to be independent anyway. Oh, driving lesson tomorrow and I was supposed to look up what the broken white lines were for. oops.

Why are you up so late?

[georgie]

You've got to hand it to us, life has dealt us a knock out blow and none of us have stayed down. I've been telling people I'm not strong you just think I am, but actually looking around on these threads at the company I'm in - we are all strong. Strong isn't about being infalible or indestructable, it's about carrying on and keeping your head up and looking ahead to a better future. I did get carried away with this today and was marching along with the dog humming "I am woman hear me roar" or whatever that song was (I'm not quite old enough) and I thought now this is just a BIT MUCH get over yourself, you'll could be a blubbering mess again this time tomorrow - but the point is I wont stay that way, every day it's a little closer to the future, and who knows what that holds.

[JWD]

yep, we're the ones facing it head on. t's also about recognising how you feel and addressing it, trying to find a solution instead of running off. Who do they think they are. I got a little sad earlier but I expect thats normal.. Sad about the house we planned to do up and the garden, i'm sitting in the middle on a bomb site as roof and kitchen are getting repaired, no cooker, fridge nothing and he is enjoying an affair. Makes me sad to think I had such poor judgement.

his mum never came round and said she would. That's made me sad too but I understand. I wanted to use today to show her I was much stronger but I expect blood is thicker than water. It's sad to think that I'll never get closure from him, i'll need to find it myself. I do see a pattern though, I've been totally replaced and he is saying the same stuff about me that he m all used to say about ex. Now that is SAD.

I'm all snow patrolled and cold played out. Started listening to wham lol

Club tropical the drinks are free.

I think he thinks I'm a little saddo and thinks I'm pathetic for blaming myself, but then when I argued his points he became pressured and angry and walked off.

I'm telling myself to get a grip, someone out there must want to be nagged and loved lol.


Arghhhh the flash backs are killing me lol. Funny times, embarrassing times. I had a horrible thought today that imagine he died, I'd never really know he loved me.

Right, now I've cheered you up a little I'll leave it at that LOL

Funny what goes through your mind at these times.

[JWD]

Hello there, you know, I read the first couple of pages last night but had to stop. Too upsetting to see that that was actually me. I feel a million times better than I did there. Once I've really turned a corner, I'll probably start a new thread.

Not sure if I've learnt much apart from what a poor speller I am lol.

The people on this forum are wonderful. In a horrible way, it' comforting to know that there are others in similar situations.

had to giggle at how many times I argued that it wasn't an affair, it couldn't be lol.

I'd love to read your thread when you feel up to posting it.

thanks.

[JWD]

Ha I sensed you were male. I'be been very careful not to man bash as women are right horrors too judging by the forums I've visited. Everybody's at it.

Anyway, I just messed up. kitchen ceiling just fell down, builders everywhere and they needed to speak to H. I called and got his 'depressed woe is me voice' and I just snapped. It was a reasonablish snap lol.

I said look you while you are deciding who the hell you love or don't love I'm in a the middle of a building site here. I think you need to get your act together. I said my gut is telling me you're upto something, I said why are you telling your mum and sister re o/w, get this, it wasn't anything to do with her blah blah blah blah, I said regardless, you still didn't come to me and you already admitted you have no Idea why you are unhappy. I told him he needs to tell the truth. Also told him that I'm not going to be manipulated any more and that I feel is he just brushing the o/w under the carpet to protect them both from exposure.

He said he will pick me up from work on Monday so that looks like a dear John, I really am past the point of caring, so many lies and misery. I made sure he knew I was not going to sit around waiting. Probably the wrong thing to do as will push him further but my mental health is more important than playing around, hiding my own feeling for however long it takes him to decide.

Monday probably isn't a good time as I have work on the tuesday.

Oh the drama.

[JWD]

I'll carry on with my 1000 affirmations a day though lol

[JWD]

said to him before are you waiting on me making the decision and he said maybe. She is not married, lived with boyfriend and kid.

I think he is trying to pacify me. Maybe paranoid but it's just not adding up. He is so insincere.

My God, who is he.

Arghhhhhhh could kick myself for calling. I was so good in counselling too. I don't think I sounded needy just fed up with all this.

Really, I should be the one deciding to take him back shouldn't I. I think he is scared I call o/w at work.

[JWD]

Right, I've just read my whole thread.

He is out tonight drinking with friends, said to me, what am I supposed to do, think about us all day every day. lol. says it all doesn't it.

No,I can't do this to myself any longer. I know it's been a few shorts weeks but I've had it with being treated like this. I no longer know him, arrogant and selfish and full of self importance and pity.

I've given him an ultimatum despite all the text book advice. I just feel it.

I'm not scared any more. He said he was coming round tomorrow and we're going to face it.

I'm out tomorrow night and I just want to know where I stand because for some reason I feel tomorrow is the turning point.

I have financial security, a beautiful house, beautiful holidays but it means nothing to live like this and always have the fear of this happening again.

I have seen a very cruel dismissive side to him and living like that will just crack away at my self-respect and I'm not prepared to allow that to happen.

[JWD]

So can he, great business man but couldn't tell me how he felt. Ah it's so confusing.

He structures everything in his head. Oh I don't know, can't describe it. Just feel like he isn't making any effort at all and just leaving me to decide. Just wish I knew why. Why can't he say why he is not happy.

Tis a mystery

[JWD]

you have a good night :-)