Help needed again - back to square one

[Jackie]

Hi everybody,
I posted before Christmas about finding out that my husband has been having an affair with my close friend. I asked him to move out at the beginning of December and me and my daughters went away on holiday over Christmas without him. On our return he had missed us all desperately and was 6/10 committed to making our marriage work which was an improvement on a pre Christmas rating of 4/10. However, since we have been back a month now, things have slipped back into us being friends. I have been trying to distance myself but I miss him so much sometimes I cannot help myself being 'normal' towards him. Today I just feel as bad as I did before Christmas. I am feeling anxious again and although trying to study for a course I am taking, cannot concentrate as conversations are going through my head constantly and I am analysing things all the time. How can I stop this as it is driving me mad. I don't want to do it but I have even started reading horoscopes to see if they will tell me what I want to hear.

Last weekend was one of my daughter's birthday and we spent nearly all weekend together. Had a great day on Saturday and he left at about 10pm. After such a good day it just feels so wrong that he then leaves. We did email though on Monday this week and I got carried away and he was shocked by my email after we had had such a good weekend. In subsquent emails we analysed where we had gone wrong going over the same ground again and again. We know where we have gone wrong. He also says that he still loves me very much. Although he says he doesn't want to leave after having spent time here he is showing no signs of coming back. I have decided that if he hasn't made a decision by April that I will ask him to move the rest of his possessions out of our house. He has still got loads of stuff here. Do you think I am giving him too much time or not enough? A friend told me not to rush things and that he had to be 100% certain that coming back is the right thing to do.

He is full of guilt and regret at the moment. From mutual friends I have heard that he wishes he could turn the clock back a year and start again but still he doesn't come back. I have said that we will change a lot of things to make it better but at the moment his feelings for this other woman are getting in the way. He admitted that he doesn't think this relationship will last. He is still seeing her but it does not seem a very fulfilling relationship and he does not look happy.

He also says that although he misses being here he likes his own space. Well, I like my space but with the size of our house there are plenty of rooms if he wants his own space. Am I being played for a fool? I have met loads of new people with the new classes etc that I have joined so have changed my life for the better so it is not as though I am sitting around 7 days a week waiting for him to come back but I do have time to think and it is driving me mad. Any ideas would be gratefully received.

[Raymond]

These things are always difficult Jackie. Whenever there is unfaithfulness there are always problems. Your friend is right it has to be 100%. 6/10 is no good either you need 10/10.

I think you are being taken for a ride and being showed a disrespect. Okay there is something still there from the marriage but it is being shared with this other woman like he wants his cake and to eat it as well.

I think you ought to give it a deadline as sad as you find it. Perhaps it will concentrate his mind. Marriage is a precious thing and a joining of souls. This cannot be broken easily as there is a tearing of your inner being, so nobody is saying it is easy.

The alternative is to allow him his affair and be there when it is all over. Act as a doormat in other words. There are some who live with that but I think the relationship will never be the same if that happens. It would be demeaning to you and is not what a marriage should be.

I would go for faithfulness or nothing and set a time limit. The real problem is his lack of commitment to you. Until he sorts this out you are not really going anywhere. Part of relationship is giving the other space but isolation goes against what a marriage should be. Space to play the field though equals destruction of the marriage.

Raymond

[dave123]

Hi Jackie,

Not sure about setting a deadline unless there is a process with a definite timeline to work to...
If your husband isn't 100% into repairing and restarting then you need to look after number 1, and your kids. Sharing your husband with another woman is surely not what you committed to when you got married?

It could be worth a try at counseling for either yourself or both of you. At least it would open everything up and allow you to make decisions on your futures based on some real truth.

I'm sure your H is enjoying his space, allowing him time to do so is a positive thing in my opinion, it's a shame he is using it with another woman and not to develop himself and to do some soul searching.

Take care of yourself,

Dave

[Jackie]

Do you think I should tell him what the deadline is or should I keep that to myself and when I get to it then talk to him. If I tell him my deadline he is not going to think about anything until that time or, as has happened before, we get to that deadline and he thinks I don't mean it although I have stuck to what I have said in the past. Do men like to be pressured into making a decision or do they feel backed into a corner and then take the easy option?

[Raymond]

All men are different Jackie as women are.

I don't feel in general manipulation will work. Without his repentance he is going nowhere. The remorse he has expressed is not the same. Remorse is just sorriness that it did not work out how he had planned. Repentance is a moral thing a sorriness that makes you do the right thing. It is looking in the mirror and admitting that you got it wrong and hurt the one you married. The fruit of it is a deep apology and an endeavour to win back the trust.

Maybe your deadline will bring him to that but there are no guarantees. I think there is a danger that this thing will be strung out for years. I tend to favour the view of having a private deadline and acting on it. He is not worthy of you at the moment. Perhaps when you announce the seperation it will knock him into sense but then again it might not. If you do it then you will have to mean it and not waver otherwise you may be in for a long confusing ride. If he still carries on with this woman or flirts with another you have your answer. I know you will need a lot of courage to do this. I pray that you will be strong.

Raymond

[Jackie]

Thanks Raymond, another friend gave me the advice not to let him know what my deadline was and not to give this unless I was prepared for it to go either way. I am not ready for that at the moment but might be in two month's time. Who knows, time will tell.

After a conversation with my daughter tonight, it appears that he does want to come back but is still not 100% sure and will not come back until that time. He says he is trying which I think means he is cutting down the time he is seeing this OW.

Let's hope that 2 months will be enough time. I am prepared for the work that is required to make this work but he needs to get her out of his system before this can begin. I think that 22 years together is worth the hard work. It is our 19th wedding anniversary at the beginning of March and I know that he has it marked on his calendar so fingers crossed.

[Ageing Grace]

Good luck with everything, Jackie!

Your story reminds me of the times when I've wanted to bang friends' heads together! I'm sure you, too, have been friends with couples who separated ... even though it was blindingly obvious to everyone else that they should be together.

It looks different from the inside, I know. Often the split isn't about the two individuals - and almost never about the 3rd party - but to do with a personal crisis one (or each) of the partners is experiencing. If you and your husband can go together for counselling, it will provide a proper environment for any such issues to get aired.

For what it's worth, I totally agree that all attempts at manipulation are a really bad idea. Quite likely to bite you on the behind, too! I don't know where your friend's coming from with the 'secret deadline' suggestion. The purpose of a deadline is to agree a certain outcome by that date; if your husband has no idea of the deadline, how can he agree to the outcome?

Still on that topic, we all learned as teenagers that you must never deliver an ultimatum unless you're fully prepared to carry it through. With the uncertainty that plagues your life at the moment, the thought that there could be a cut-off date to your doubts must be very tempting indeed. But, if you deliver your ultimatum, you will essentially be saying to your husband that you're completely ready to let him go.

That isn't the case, is it?

What you've said in your posts is that you want to get back together, and you want to repair your marriage. I completely agree with you that going back over past mistakes, once it's been done, is a depressing & pointless exercise. How much talking is there about going forwards? Are there some suggestions - even requirements - that you can make, constructively, to your husband? Going to counselling would be a very good one :) You might also want to think about having a once-a-week date night for the two of you, regular date nights for him & your daughter, and some family events that can be booked in advance - theatre, films, sporting events or whatever you enjoy as a family.

Worst case scenario: he refuses to make the dates. Then, at least, you know the true level of his involvement. Best case: it all goes fabulously well, marital communication improves, and he can't think why he ever left :D In all cases: this will restore your sense of having some input - and some influence - in your marriage, instead of feeling washed around like some piece of jetsam on the ever-changing tide of his feelings.

It's fantastic that you're getting on so positively with building your own life, Jackie! I remember your posts before your holiday. How did it go? Did you manage to have a good time?

Very best wishes,
AG

[Raymond]

I think I agree with what you say Jackie. Nobody wants to see a break to a good marriage. If you have the hope that he can reach 100% in a couple of months go for it. If it doesn't look in two months time that things are going to chrystalise then you have the other plan to fall back on. I hope it goes well for you.

Raymond

[Jackie]

Thanks AG,

If I tell him I want a decision by say April, I feel that he will get to April and again will say to me that he is not 100% sure as he is very indecisive and all along I have had to make the decisions. I told him to leave; he would probably still be here if I had not made that decision. I have been trying to cut off my contact with him so that he misses me, as he seems to want part of the family life but wants the OW as well. So he is having his cake and eating it. I did not want to be a part of that. I also said that whilst he was still seeing the OW there would be no kissing between us. He would kiss me on the mouth when he left after seeing our girls.

I think he has had enough of counselling and would not agree at the moment. Whilst I was away at Christmas (we had a fantastic time thanks. I did a Scuba diving course and I was really proud of myself for going all the way to Thailand on my own with my daughters), he found some notes I had written down about our relationship and how I would change things. I had thrown them in the bin and he found them. Therefore he knows what changes I would do. It is just until he feels that I am what he wants that he does not want to come back and hurt me again like last time. Last time his heart wasn't in it and was contacting the OW all the time.

All his friends and family are supporting me and don't know what has gone wrong in his head. They keep telling him what a fool he is and all he says is that he knows but can't do anything about it. It is his 50th birthday in three week's time. I know this has been a major date for him and I think he feels that life has let him down and he hasn't got to where he wanted to be by this point. I have said to him all the things we can do if we get back together. For me I am excited about this and would really look forward to basically starting again, trying new things together and revisiting old places, times etc but at the moment my OH is not in this place with me. It is so sad as we are so well suited, the same sense of humour, same interests, two daughters together. The sooner he realises that he does not have a future with the OW the better. I can see and other people who know the OW, can see that they have very little in common apart from liking going to the pub and having one too many.

Regarding counselling, when we do talk I just feel as though we go over the same points again and again. I know where I am at fault and he knows where he is at fault. If we could go back a year, if he had told me then we had a problem, we could have saved this before it had got to this point. He knows this but we are here now and some friends say don't rush things and others say how can I be so patient and I should get rid of him now. It is confusing for me as everyone around me wants a conclusion now, including my lovely mother-in-law who is devasted by this.
Thanks Raymond and AG for your support. Time will tell and I'll keep you posted.