After an affair - is this reasonable?

[AmeliaB]

I just want to know if my husband is being reasonable and if not, if anyone knows what I should do? We have 2 small children, 10 yrs together and had no problems in our marriage (communication, physical side all great) until my H had an affair with his assistant between late July and early September - a work crush + opportunity = affair situation as far as he says. He was leaving work (and the town) and stupidly admitted he had a crush on her at his leaving do. She then texted him and emailed him saying that his leaving was the hardest thing she'd ever gone through etc. He then responded and so it all sparked off. It was all (very) emotional via many emails/texts and long phonecalls until a single day in September when he had to go back to town for a day and stay the night, they met for drinks and dinner and ended up spending an hour at his hotel. He says they never planned to and I have a mail from her to him confirming this that I found - also he does believe in teenage grand romances and says he thought it would never get physical, just be a wordy unrequited thing based on supposed shared interests but she started kissing him when he had to get a book from his room to give her at the end of the night so it just happened as he thought it was expected of him and she'd hate him if he rejected her - before he'd thought that as she was married she wouldn't do that - he is sadly that sort of idiot and I know him well enough to actually believe this, plus that came out in a row and being him he would have needed time to think of an excuse like that.

he has always been Mr Moral Judgement about others' affairs before, comes from parents who were very happily married and I truly trusted he would never do anything like this so suspected nothing, even though he stopped talking to me and avoided me while it was going on. I thought he was depressed. Well, when I got him home the next day i could tell from his face something big had gone down, asked him (he denied but got very emotional, said he didn't love me anymore, and needed to go back to town, so would do so the next month for a visit. I can't recall if he said we should separate as I was in shock).

So something must have clicked as I checked his computer and read everything, plus all the texts. He was kicked out, spent 4 weeks having an emotional crisis as he missed us and was always trying to spend time in our home but said he still had feelings for her and didn't know if he could come back because of that and until he was totally sure it was for me as well as the kids and could love me properly. Also reality of what he was doing/had done rather than thinking he was in a big romance was hitting home and he says he was desperately convincing self it had been real, not a grubby fling, plus he was also dealing with fact she was a compulsive liar who'd pretended to like the same things he did and made up stuff including a big trauma story about supposed events in her past to get his sympathy and bond early on. But just as we were starting to spend more time together she started emailing again. I wasn't happy but agreed he could reply once or twice to find out why she'd lied provided he was businesslike and unemotional.

Needless to say it went on for 2 weeks, blew us apart again as he got sucked back in. He'd been on a friend's sofa but visiting daily but I then threw out all his stuff and told him I loved him but unless it ended there would never be a chance for us, so he agreed reluctantly as he still wanted answers from her. Anyway, three days later he took me out and begged to come back and I agreed but the next day her husband sent me an email he'd found from the day before the lunch with my husband telling her he loved her (she'd asked as everything he'd sent till then seemed to suggest he regretted it) and wouldn't forget her ever. I chucked him out again but next day he finished with her properly (sent a mail then her husband made her call him to confirm it was real) so he came home.

But since then although he has been perfect, cooks dinner and constantly says he loves me and shows this I am finding it really hard to cope. I am fairly sure he wouldn't do anything like it again but I think about it all every few days and how he could betray me so much and get angry/depressed, and he gets angry / frustrated / upset when he sees me crying and has said shouldn't that be over yet as he can't feel guilty forever...Then he apologises loads once he's calmed down. He's also not very keen to talk about anything so it keeps coming to a head with me blurting questions out (usually when drunk) and a fight ensuing where horrible things are said, but a little information does come out that makes me feel I have been listened to so makes it better for me. I think part of it is that I am frustrated with myself for not having discovered it before they met up despite glaring signs... We did talk about the facts at first and why it occurred but since then things have been coming to mind on occasion still as I am no longer in shock and am processing stuff I think. Also - things like the fact they were going to meet up monthly, that he was the one who made the first move, were given to me by her husband (who likes to stir - I have now cut all contact with him at husband's insistence). I had asked about these issues several times but he hadn't told me the truth. So, what should I do - I feel that I still need to talk as he concealed so much I can't trust anything he says and it makes me angry. Is it reasonable that this should stop me putting things behind me or is it better to stop bringing it up and move on as my husband suggests?

[Raymond]

You are suffering from the trust issue Amelia. Trust takes the longest to be built up but can be broken the quickest. For it to be built up again will take time. That is only natural. We are not playing games here it is important. You need his co-operation and he needs to be open to your questions. It is his responsibilty to work at it and restore your trust over time. I take it that he is thoroughly sorry for what happened and what he did to you. That is essential also. If that is all in place and you have sorted the forgiveness out (also necessary) the rest is a matter of time. I sense there is a lack of honesty on his part in not calling a spade a spade. It was actually adultery. That is a dirty word and he has to accept it and make amends.

You seem confident that it will never happen again and that is a good sign. Hopefully he has learnt that any of us can be vulnerable and be open to flattery in the right time and place (or wrong time and place) and will now take care.

I think you are going about it the right way Amelia. Hopefully you will turn the corner and it will be time not to play it back and keep reminding him but I don't think you are there yet as he has to open up and be really honest in what went wrong. You don't want anything like this to ever happen again.

Raymond

[AmeliaB]

He is thoroughly sorry and would change things if he could, but without him being honest I cannot forgive him. He gets angry when I try to talk and turns my request into a failure on my part to be able to move on - however, it is only just over 2 months since he told her to leave him alone and 3 weeks since I discovered he was the one who if not started, put in place the opportunity for the affair. I had her first message to him and always thought she was to blame, though when I said this he always said this was unfair as they both had responsibility, though never told the truth. When I discovered the fact he had lied and covered this up it was like being betrayed all over again. perhaps he doesn't understand that?

The other woman is not an issue by the way as he now dislikes her owing to her lies, and I do not believe he would do it again as he understands what he nearly lost. He is also avoiding contact with anyone who knows or might know about what he did, so I suppose this is also part of the problem...

[Raymond]

Part of repentance is wanting to put things right otherwise it is just remorse that one didn't get away with it. Forgiveness is very important so that you can move on, but I do understand that it is hard to work through if he is not being honest. Perhaps he has a fear of your condemnation? If you explain you are wanting to forgive and not condemn but you need his co-operation in being honest as it is affecting you, it might help.

It is a difficult one and you have to draw a fine line. You don't want to rub his face in it forever as that will be condemnation. That doesn't help as it will affect your marriage relationship. Of course you can condemn the action but not him. As I said he may fear you will condemn him and not just the action. Hate the sin and love the sinner as they say.

Can you say what he is not being honest about?

I would go for the things you absolutely need to know for your peace of mind but leave the messy details that are not essential for you to know.

Raymond

[AmeliaB]

One of the points is how they ended up at the hotel room as early as they did - about an hour and a half to two hours before she had to get home to her husband. If he is telling the truth about getting stuff at the end of the night then that doesn't make sense. It may sound odd but it's not the details I want, it's to know he has been honest. I don't care if he says "I asked her to come back for sex' as it changes nothing - I still have to deal with the fact that they did that as I did before, no matter the circumstances, but I just want to know he is telling the truth. If they went for another drink after dinner then his story makes sense but I am at the point I can't even ask him that or he will explode. I'd also like to know why he felt he wanted to bring up liking her in the first place - as I said I still don't really have much of a handle on why it happened and how we can work to stop it coming to this again.

[Raymond]

I can't really work out all the details Amelia. Perhaps end of the night meant the end of their time together whatever that time was. The main thing is that it happened and he has admitted guilt. I doubt if he wants to relive all the details as you don't either. Adultery is adultery whatever time it happens.

The main thing is that he has been unfaithful and is sorry wanting to make it up to you I hope. If that is true he will need your forgiveness before the marriage can move on.

Yes it is a good thing to make sure it doesn't happen again but you cannot put him on a chain. One thing that can be arranged is to have him phone you when he is away or be accountable in some way to make sure things are kept above board. He will understand this if he is trying to make it up and mend your trust. You certainly don't want this happening again. You both need to rebuild what you have together and move on. I think things need to settle a bit so you can both see things clearly and make appropriate responses. Playing the detective to see if he is telling the truth will tend to wind him up I think. If you have his repentance you will have the honesty and the motivation for him to make it good. These things take time as your forgiveness will.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Hi, Amelia.

You said you're cross with yourself for not picking up sooner on the 'glaring signs'. You didn't pick up on them, because those signs do NOT glare at someone who has no reason to mistrust their partner! No reason to think you should have done.

The sadness for you - and for your husband - is that you never will trust so completely again.

However, that's not to say you can't rebuild yourselves - and maybe even come out stronger, together, the other side. Your love for him shines through your posts and, from all you've said, he's a pretty loveable man :) He's doing whatever he can do to make amends. The one thing you'd like him to do - turn back time and make a different choice - he can't give you, but he's doing his best!

The shock of his betrayal is still very fresh to you, and you are understandably angry. It's broken your trust: that's why you feel you can't believe him in the future. You probably never will trust him so fully again.

Many people would say, that kind of trust is naive. They might be right. The trust you build up between you, from now, will be a more mature kind of understanding that takes account of one another's weaknesses - and of where the dangers are for you two, as the humans you are.

A big part of his weakness was being a downright nice guy, if rather easily led. The other, smaller part ... What was that, Amelia? Did his ego need a boost, was he hoping for something new physically, was he lonely? Hard questions. You must have discussed that part, but maybe not in a way that allowed him to honestly question his own motives. There's always a moment when we decide NOT to say "no" and I suspect that's what is eating you up. The answer why he chose "Yes" may well involve some tricky heart-searching for him, as well as for you. He wants to make things better with you; he's unlikely to face that question whilst you're still so tormented.

I think you desperately need to dump your anger and doubts ... and think things through for yourself. It sounds like you need quite a bit of ranting, before you're able to clarify your thoughts enough to move forwards helpfully. Posting here is a VERY good start! Moaning with your friends also helps, but don't push it - you'll end up talking yourself into a permanent sulk (and hangover).

Consider booking half a dozen sessions with a trained counsellor. Failing that, you could try a sensible self-help book and a close friend to work through it with you. And/or a kick-boxing class!

Rant, girl :D

AG

[AmeliaB]

Thanks Grace - apparently he was unsettled by having moved out of our old city and leaving all our friends behind, and she was there on the phone and computer telling him things he wanted to hear that let him behave like a teenager and retreat into a fantasy world instead of facing the reality of the fact that he was now responsible for building a new, better life for his kids - he was also going it alone in his business for the first time, though it was already doing well and pressure was very limited. So I suppose I have the answer there, in a way.

You are right - I have to focus on the positive things this has brought. he is away at the moment and is in contact with me several times a day telling me how much he misses me and wishes he had been a better person, and how much he wants to make it up to me for the rest of our lives... He is not a bad man or I would not have taken him back for a moment. And I trust him to be away, and that he wants nothing to do with her, so I suppose that is a start. I think I am just grieving for the fact that as you say, I will never trust him like that again. It's like the loss of innocence and that's so sad to me.

[Raymond]

I wouldn't rule out never being able to trust him again. A lot depends on him. Don't accept that you can never trust him again. He can work at that and re-assure you. It is possible you will get that trust back as it was. Trust is so important for a good marriage.

Raymond

[AmeliaB]

Well, I will trust certain things but maybe not others, and I will certainly be more aware of any odd signs...

[honeybeee]

hello amelia, i am in EXACTLY the same position as you, my husband told me last july he was texting someone,but told me in october that he had actually gone to her house 12 times for oral sex.i am just like you, i wonder if i can ever trust him again,even though in my heart i feel as if i already do (if that makes sense).it is just i have to keep asking him questions, like when did it actually start, when was the last time,did he tell her he loved her,etc etc. i think because he wasn't honest with me right from the beginning that is why i need the answers, just to try and fathom out the truth. some people have given me some really good advice and i know it makes sense, but to actually try and stick to it is what is so hard. your husband sounds as if he is doing all the same things as my husband,he is really remoresfull,and truly sorry and says that he has learnt a lesson the hard way, as to what is actually important to him, his family.he will never stray again. i think we have good men deep down,it is just so hard that the closest person to you, who you have trusted with your life and rely on to protect you from lifes harm,has done the most horrible, hurtful,painful thing to you.i don't think i will ever get over it, especially after 23 years together.i have to hope, as you will, that we can rebuild our marriages and hope it will make us stronger, i just hope that i don't end up despising him for what he has done to us,he had a choice, he could have said no,or at least walked away after the first time, that is what i am having trouble with, that he kept going back to her then coming home to me.sorry, i meant to give you some encouraging words!!
we WILL get over this, and we WILL be happier in the future,we are good wives and i think our husbands realise this now, its not too late.for better or worse.email me anytime if you want to talk more,it does help to talk. chin up !!!!

[Raymond]

Your husband's will need your forgiveness if your marriages are to grow. We all mess up some time or other, perhaps not in that way. When we are sorry about something and are determined to put it right, a lack of forgiveness can put a blight on a relationship. There is a difference in being blase about it and being repentant. If repentance is there forgiveness will open the door to move on. I know this can be hard but basically it is a decision: a decision maybe to be kept to over a period until it is fully achieved but it will start with a decision. It will mean that playbacks will have to cease in your head and that accounts are not kept. Are you up to that? In a word forgive and forget. Forgetting is also a decision. The memory will always be there deep down but it will mean that it is not in the forefront of your mind because of your decision. Life is a risk, but if there is repentance there from the husband, forgiveness can cause things to blossom again.

Al I did was sin in my youth but God said I sent my son to pay. Do you accept my forgiveness through him? If God forgave me so much how can I not forgive others. I still sin even now but if I am truly repentant the slate can be wiped clean through his blood so that I can enter back into that glorious relationship with him.

Raymond

[AmeliaB]

I think the resentment and temptation to despise him for it is definitely the hardest thing. It's like he has destroyed something forever and what will replace it won't be half as beautiful as this will taint it... It was worse as it wasn't a just sex affair - he told her he hadn't been happy with me since the first of our children was born (a lie - if this was so and there was any hint of it then would never have had another), and that he wanted to leave for her. Well, he has agreed to let me sit down and tell him exactly what hurts most about it all so he can know how to comfort me so it is a start - I just hope it does some good. I want it to be better but I'm just not sure I can let it, if you see what I mean.

[jools]

I know exactly what you mean, Amelia. It's the reason why I've never allowed myself to even think about reconciliation with my H (I'm nearly 3 yrs separated and have come out the other side). I just think there are certain things that once broken can never be repaired. We can accept to move forward with a new arrangement, but the purity of what we had has been tainted. And I'm not sure they "get" it. I've had a one year relationship since my H. I recently finished it because I realised it wasn't going anywhere and it wasn't fair on him as he wanted to settle down. But I also realised that having the strength to finish that relationship meant that I'd healed. I realised that I'd rather be on my own than cling to someone for fear of being alone. I feel much stronger now - and contented.
Anyway - I just wanted to say that I know exactly what you mean. I hope you find your way through this - whatever that route may be.
Love Jools
XXX

[Raymond]

Amelia is still with her husband Jools, so there is a difference. It's a good first step that he is willing to sit down and listen to what is troubling you, but that step of forgiveness will have to happen sometime for the restoration to be complete, although of course a lot depends on his behaviour now with regard to faithfulness and restoring your trust.

Raymond

[jools]

I know there's a difference, Raymond but I just wanted to tell her that I knew exactly what she was getting at when she said about feeling that something had been tainted. I also wanted to share what had happened to me because when I was going through it with my H, I remember the terror of wondering what would happen if we split up. And then I'd read about people who'd had that happen, but had come out the other side, and managed to heal and be happy. It use to give me hope that no matter what I'd be ok. I hope she can get through this - but whatever happens, I wanted her to know that she'll be ok. :) (And by the way, I think the time you spend helping people on here is great - you seem a nice bloke.)
Jools XXX

[Hilary]

Hey everyone, I'm going to put the cat amongst the pigeons.

There seems to be a thread you have to be able to trust your husband/wife completely to be happy.

I disagree. the only thing I have been able to trust my husband is that he will say what I want to hear. So if I raked over old coals he would tell me what I wanted to hear, not what what might have actually happened if this was going to really upset me.

Sometimes it feels distinctly uncomfortable to have to trust in God (or the universe) that all will work out for good. But that is all we have.

You don't have to be able to trust that your partner will be fully honest with you at all times in order to stay together or have a good or lasting relationship. Having a good relationship doesn't mean agreeing with each other, nor having the same interests, nor the same tastes, sometimes not even the same values - it is about wanting the best for the other person, that you both function much better together than apart, that you grow up independent of each other and yet available to be loving and supportive of each other so you can be whole fulfilled people.

[Raymond]

Thanks for your post Jools. I understand where you are coming from.

Hilary the trust we are talking about is to do with unfaithfulness. Nobody is saying that couples have to agree on everything and have the same interests etc. but I would say trust is essential in a good relationship. It is part of all relationships actually but much more important in marriage. If your trust has been broken through unfaithfulness it will seriously affect your relationship and the intimacy you enjoy together. Trust is one of those things that take the longest to build up but can be broken the quickest.

In Amelias case where the husband is repentant of his unfaithfulness it is essential that he works to regain her trust, otherwise something will be lost forever.

Raymond

[Hilary]

Hmmm
I was talking about the trust from unfaithfulness too. From my own experience of marriage I had to be prepared to let go of the anger from infidelity or we would have never made it through.

Early in my marriage when my husband was in the military a sargents wife invited all of us new wives to tea the day before our husbands were due back from overseas. She said that all the men go to prostitutes on their first day back in (more or less) civilisation. She instructed us that we should not let such physical release get in the way of an otherwise good marriage. Personally she was going to make her husband sleep on the sofa until he had been checked by a doctor.

I was gobsmacked. But it was good advice and I never did let such activities get in the way of an otherwise good marriage.

Even when he had sex with someone I knew and I was really angry I pretended that it was nothing - just used it as evidence that I had to change some things at home. It was hard, but I had 3 small children (and no interest in sex at that time) so with his high sex drive he was always going to find it elsewhere.

It didn't make it right. There were no excuses for his bad behaviour. And we both got hurt. But in the long run it has worked out for the best that we stayed together and supported each other.

All the talk about trust and forgiveness seems a bit irrelevant to me. In our case we had to just let it go and make sure it didn't poison the next day, the next week, month and years we had together.

Again, the only one I can truly trust is God - that all will work out for the best, even given our considerable personal limitations. And even if I didn't feel loving I had to act loving if I wanted things to work out - that meant - tone of voice, topics of conversation, tidy house, children happy, meals on the table and more active bedroom. And after some short time action led back to feelings.

[Raymond]

Adultery is a betrayal. I don't understand how you can make light of it and accept it. I know there is a place for forgivenes but I don't know how that will work through if the husband doesn't care about his betrayal.

The sex is between the married couple only. Mixing it up with others muddies the waters and does seriously affect the intimacy between a couple. You seem to be saying they can sleep with someone else and not even have to say sorry.

I have to disagree with you I'm afraid.

Raymond

[Hilary]

Move over to AGs new thread for discussion on this.

[ukbikerman]

I am in a similar situation with my wife. We are stiull trying to work it out, and I have read quite a few books on the subject. The relate book "after the affair" helps - The way I read it is that the original relationship is gone, and you are greiving, that's exactly how I feel. To move forward, you need to form a new relationship with your husband which may mean different boundaries etc etc. Trust will be an issue for a long time, if he wants to really make a go of it he is going to have to accept that as a fact for a while

[befree]

he doesn't love you but has chosen to stay with you. You can realise that and accept it for what it is, or punish and push him until he leaves.

[wscreate]

But since then although he has been perfect, cooks dinner and constantly says he loves me and shows this I am finding it really hard to cope. I am fairly sure he wouldn't do anything like it again

Are you?

As far as I know, my wife has never cheated on me. I also am fairly sure that she would never do such a thing, but I know that things happen. However, if I were to find out that she had cheated on me, then I personally could not be as optimistic as you are. At age 41, I have learned that a leopard does not usually change its spots. I have also learned that without trust in a marriage, the relationship will suffer terribly.

I have no advice for you aside from "trust your instincts". If you truly believe this is a one time thing, then follow your instincts.

I wish the best for you both.