should i hide a gps in his car

[jkk]

hi my husband had an affair for 7 years with a single woman, who was an ex-girlfriend of his. We have been together 31 years, and the affair occurred whilst i was very ill, i began to recover a year ago. During the years of my illness i was unable to have sex. In July i discovered my husband was having an affair. He told me it was just for sex, had only been for a few months (he had been pushing me away when i had tried), showed remorse and promised me it would end. I forgave him.

In September, i just felt something was wrong and went around her house, she cofirmed they had begun again. I threw him out. The next day he begged me to forgive him. I did, he came back. She phoned me and told me all the ins and outs of the affair -7 years, hotels, presents, a hidden mobile and lots more. I spoke to my husband, he promised again. But, when the mobile phone turned up he hadn't deleted the sent messages. He promised again.

He now says he hasn't seen or spoken to her for months. There is no evidence he has, i asked her, she also said it was over. But i have this nagging doubt. I want to put a tracking bug in his car. I need to have some proof that it is over. I sometimes wonder what lifes about, i need peace of mind

[dave123]

I'm not sure how you go about rebuilding trust after a situation like this. If you need the proof maybe get a PI to follow him for a bit, but seeing as how the two parties involved have at least been brutally honest about their wrongdoing in the past perhaps you just need to give it time.

Good luck.

Dave

[jkk]

he wasn't at first, and restarted thier affair. The o/w was honest - but only after i had told her if i found out he was still seeing her, i would finish our marriage for good. She told me she loved him and wanted him, and did her best to wreck what was left of our marriage.

Trust is a strange thing, i trust him in every other aspect of our lives. I have also read - why trust a person who has proven to be untrustworthy, people are only human, they often make mistakes, do bad things, affairs happen, that it is better not to trust anyone completely, safeguard your marriage, don't take it for granted, spend time together, have sex, don't spend the night away from each other.

I do not trust him, i will not be able to trust him for a very long time. Trust is a thing that cannot be switched on and off.

[Ageing Grace]

Although I usually say "trust your gut feelings", your trust and feelings have been so badly shaken by the events you describe that they may well be out of whack right now.

I know just how it feels to try & rebuild your trust after the damage. You constantly need proof, and who can blame you? Your wounded heart is crying out for protection against further betrayals, and yet here you are asking it to trust the very person who betrayed you! It's awful.

Somebody gave me very sane and good advice, which I'd recommend to you. It was:-

Forget about what may, or may not, be going on outside your marriage. The important thing here is YOU, the marriage YOU want, and whether you're getting what YOU need from it.

I realise this looks absurd, when what you want is the love, trust & the marriage you thought you had :( Bear with me.

That marriage was not actually what you had. In reality, you were married to someone whose self-interest overrode his concern for your health & wellbeing. Now, this may not be a deciding factor for you - I know women who always turn to their sisters when they're ill, as they can't expect support from their husbands - but it is a factor to include in your evaluation.

You couldn't possibly have known this about him when you married, but you do now. So face this aspect of his personality - and accept it, if it is acceptable to you. Think also about the amount, the degree and the type of closeness you want in your ideal marriage. How much like that is your relationship at present? It's a very good idea to share any shortfalls in this area with your husband (not as a shopping list, obviously, but try & get the "my ideal marriage" conversation going).

The point of all this, JKK, is to shift your focus away from the past and back to where it counts: the present, your marriage and its future. It is a very therapeutic exercise, plus it will help you to rebuild your self-knowledge & self-confidence :)

Please try it.
Wishing you the very best -
AG.

[1aokgal]

JKK...

You are hurt and angry butif you review the whole thing, the facts are..you were ill and not available. DId he leave you? No. He could have said," I am out of here." SO..sounds like the other woman had open arms AND hoped to get him. He said..it was just for sex. I believe him and the facts say true that he is there with YOU and not her.

Oh, isn't SHE cute!! You listened to her while she filled your head with visions of the times they were together. I am sure sorry you played into the game. Why do you think she told you all the details....because she cares about you? NO. She did that to get even with him out of spite because he chose to stay and be with his wife.

What did you do? You threw him out! So, again, you were not there for him and she got the prize. She manipulated that whole picture and you did just what she wanted you do to like a puppet on a string. Lady, wake up!! You have a treasure there. He is a faithful and loyal husband to you, his wife and never wanted to be with her in the first place.

How do you measure love? I think you measure the fact he stayed with a sick wife who was a wife in name only. No, I don't take him off the hook completely. He did go get some sex but what counts and what survives until death do you part is his love for you.

Do NOT turn your back or shove him away. Forgive his human nature. He is after all, just a man, and we know they are frail creatures despite the biceps. Where it counts ..he was with you. Never talk to the woman again and she did come clean and tell you she wanted him for her own. Truth is, and it is so plain if you could only see it.....he loves YOU. Wake up before you break his heart and reward him for being a good man who took care for you when you needed him.

Scratch this sad period off the records and be his lover and wife. Follow him, question him? Don't do it! Roll back some years and be the woman you used to be. It is a new day and
the past is dead. Never mention or hold grudges. Remember, the problem began on your side and had you been there for him none of that would have occurred. Does that make you see this clearer? I think you have a treasure.

[jkk]

Thanks for your replies. I threw him out after i discovered he had started seeing her again, i had gone around there - she confessed. The following day i took him back. The next day she phone me and "spilled the beans". I forgave him. Then he texted her again, with all the kisses. I still forgave him. I am going to relate, but he refuses. He refuses to talk about us and our relationship, so i said ok, you don't have to, but just listen to me maybe once a week. He does! and talks a bit. But it's a if i just have to have some evidence that he is not in touch.

He has been doing all the "right" things, accepts if i take a peek in his pockets, he click on i was smelling him for perfume (this was how i suspected he had started seeing her again), he doesn't mind. He does tell me where and when he is working. He has never gone out at nights without me. The affair was a quicky in the car on the way home from work, and the odd hotel when i was in hospital.

But still i feel horrid, embarassed and ashamed of his behaviour, and of mine - for still being with him.

[1aokgal]

I feel sad for you that you cannot see the truth. He would rather be with you than with some trashy female in the back seat of a car. Wise up before you push him away and lose him completely. Tell him you are happy he is with YOU and all those years you have loved him.

Please see that he is there because he is a good man. He went for a bit of fluff and sex. Be that and more to him. Let's do some fixup on you and entice him the way you did 30 years ago. He is worth it and so are you.

I feel sad for both of you because you don't see what you have. A sex act in the back of a car? C'mon, that is not something you throw emotion, loyalty and 30 plus years away. Ask God to open your eyes and your heart. It all rests with you. Start fresh and let that garbage go. In the real points of a marriage he could have just walked out and left you. He did not. Doesn't that say a lot for him? Get the suspicions and petty behavior behind you.

Ask him for truth and truth in future. I think you have that. He wishes he never set eyes on that woman. Have a great holiday and whatever is your faith find your way to forgive him.

[dave123]

Hi again, lots of good stuff has been posted already. There's no need to be ashamed or embarassed we all do and say things we regret it's how we deal with them and get beyond it that matters. Good for you for opening up to a counselor and your partner and us lot on here!
It sounds like you both still love each other which is the main thing. You will both need time to build up to a new and better relationship. Try to be positive and make 2009 great for you both.

All the best,

Dave

[Ageing Grace]

He has been doing all the "right" things, accepts if i take a peek in his pockets ... smelling him for perfume ... he doesn't mind. He does tell me where and when he is working

He really is doing all the right things!
You need proof? This is your proof :)

If you give in to your broken heart's urge to stalk him - and that is what you'd be doing with your GPS - you will contribute nothing to your marriage and you will disrespect yourself.

What if he finds it? You expect him to trust you after that?
How would you feel about your sneakery, secrecy & hiding? Isn't that what you fear?

Focus on the present. Live for now. Put in what you hope to get out.

Good luck,
AG

[jkk]

hi,

i know in a way, that it would be wrong for me to put a gps in his car. My fear is that he wants his cake and eat it. She makes herself so available to him, and lives just around the corner.

AG,

he is doing most of the right things, except he won't go to counselling, but don't badger him to, and we do discuss the sessions.

Oddly, thinking on it, if he did find one in his car, on the surface, he wouldn't show that he actually cared, but deep down he would. And he would care about the purchase price!

However, if he were "up to something", he would go crazy!

But he would always understand why i did it.

1okgal,

We actually have a really loving relationship now, doing couple things. For me, it was not the affair in itself that drastically upset me. It was when they restarted their affair, he had looked me in the face, blatantly lied telling me he wasn't seeing her.

The worst thing i ever did was listen to her. I haven't ever told him all that was said. I decided that i would not play ball to their bats. I thought she expected more fireworks, and that i would throw him out again. I didn't. She told him she had spoken to me, i just text him "Hi, alls ok".

He knows and understands that at times certain times things can trigger of a facial response, upset, angry, a frown. I find it so hurtful to drive pass hotels and places they have been to. Since explaining why i sometimes turned away from, or gave him a dirty look, he tries not to take it personally, and gives me a hug, or i give him one, or he just waits til i'm composed. He also realises these responses will reduce given time - which they have!

Its done me good to chat, and read through the forums,

Lost soul,

i was guilty of many of the things on that list!

Raymond,

My husband never used to cuddle or hug me other than when sex was involved, but he does now!

[Ageing Grace]

My husband never used to cuddle or hug me other than when sex was involved, but he does now!
Looking good so far :)

Thank you for your fabulous reply. I hope you'll keep your thread up. It's great that everybody's feedback is some help to you, and I'm sure your experience will be a tremendous help to others in a comparable situation!

Love to you both ;)
AG

[jkk]

hi, i decided to put one in his car - just for a few weeks, and hopefully it will give me peace of mind, and i can begin to trust him again. I have tried so hard to come to terms with what has happened.

I do feel guilty, but also very justified. I hope he has stopped seeing her. But if he hasn't then at least i can move on - out of the marriage.

If he discovers it, he would/should understand.

Fingers crossed!

JKK

[dave123]

If he discovers it, he would/should understand.

Fingers crossed!


Fingers crossed indeed. Obviously you know your partner better than anyone on here, and i can only offer my opinion.

If you find out something bad, then at least you know and you can move on. What does your gut tell you?

If you find out nothing will it really set your mind at ease? How long until you trust him?

Hypothetically if i was in that situation and i found it i would understand why you did it but i would be extremely angry at the invasion of privacy, and the deceit.

Out of those three options i don't really like the look of any of them.

I hope he isn't cheating and i hope it does bring you peace of mind.

Good luck,

Dave

[jkk]

Hi some good, some bad.

In the past two weeks, i know he hasn't been meeting her.

But, he has been driving past her house several times, and parking up within sight of it for a few minutes, then driving off and parking in another position for another couple of minutes. Stalking????

There is obviously something not quite. Maybe this is what i have been sensing for the past few months.

I'm confused, don't know what to make of it. He hates "talking". Twice he has got drunk recently and been argumentative, states he wants a divorce. The next day he acts as if nothing has happened, and if i ask him about it, he says it was the drink and he doesn't want a divorce. He's confused and confusing.

I just don't know what to think or do, at the moment i am carrying on as normal.

[dave123]

Hi JKK,

I guess it's good news that you "know" he hasn't been to see her, but you obviously are still very much unhappy with the situation. It sounds like your partner is bottling a lot up with flows out when drunk. I have done this many times in the past and looking back for me it should have been a big red flashing warning sign. I think you must find some way to communicate your way out of this, either through counseling or agreeing a time where you can both open up and be truly honest. In my case i hated talking too (i can't stop now) but if i knew the consequence of that at the time maybe i would have forced myself to do it.

Take care, and good luck,

Dave

[Hilary]

Focus on two things - firstly focus on making your home a place where he wants to be and where he enjoys to be.
Secondly focus on having something better in your life than worrying about him and what he is doing. Get a life of your own. What do you really enjoy? What is the passion and purpose for the rest of your life? Would you like to give back to the community in some way? Have a new car or new curtains? Would you love to learn another language and then go visit that country? What makes you excited to think about? What do you really yearn to do?
I often think that the agonies we put ourselves through uses up the same energy we could be putting into taking us on to the next productive and enjoyable stage to our lives.

[jkk]

I have tried many times to talk to him, he won't go to counselling, i have given him the odd page i have downloaded, i have left books about, i talk sometimes, he listens. I have gone through counselling (just finished). Everything starts with I!!!!

I know he has problems that he is bottling up, i can see it on his face sometimes. He has a nervous cough, and a twitch. I hate seeing him stressed and find it upsetting.

It's been 6 months since i discovered the affair, and whilst we don't have raging arguments any more, things aren't right. He says he doesn't regret the affair for one minute and would do it again under those circumstances, but also adds he regrets hurting me. Also, he had a short affair about 20 years ago.

I don't have much motivation in life, i have had quite a rich full life - 5 children, education, travel and my horses. I will look into language courses.

[Hilary]

He doesn't want to be talked to - or as he probably feels - talked at. He can't cope with what he is going through as it is, without extra stuff coming at him as well. A lot of people don't like counseling - and for all sorts of different reasons - so be respectful of him while he goes through his stressful time (you say he has a nervous cough and twitch so something must be stressing him).

You say everything starts with I - well it does it one sense - I want this, I want that - but it is all about him.

You say he has problems he is bottling up - what have you bottled up for years?

Might I suggest you take your focus off him and truly put it on you but outside of your relationship. You say you don't have much motivation in life - well you won't if your focus is on him! So what would give you motivation?

You say you might look into language courses? Might I ask why? Do you have burning desire to learn? For what purpose?

It sounds as if you need some fun and excitement in your life. You need some outside of your marriage. You need some inside of your marriage - for both of you together. What would be fun?

[Ageing Grace]

JKK, have you taken your tracking device out of the car yet?

[jkk]

AG, not yet - as it has been borrowed unexpectedly, but will be when i get it back.

[jkk]

Hilary, over the past few years, most of the focus has been on me. I was ill for many years, had loads of operations, but always tried to keep myself occupied, painting etc when i was housebound - i even played internet poker. I went on countless recuperation holidays over the years.

After the children started school i occupied myself with horses; show jumping and dressage. Later, i when to college and university; got a good job. Then became ill. Then the affair.

Languages - i love italy, and would quite like to learn italian.

Yes, i could do with some fun.

Over the years we have not done many things together, we both agree we need to do more couple things. I try not to bottle things up, have a friend to chat with, and have been through counselling.

[Hilary]

It sounds as though you are doing many of the right things. That's great.
Do you keep a journal? I find that helps me clarify what I'm going through and get at the values and principles that drive what makes me emotional. Writing out feelings and what is going on can be very releasing.

I have done some Italian lessons and would love to go to Italy - but it is a long way from Australia and I have other priorities at the moment.

So what would be fun for you? I am looking into learning belly dancing. At 58 I'm in need of some exercise and my daughter thought she would love to come along as well. I'm tossing up as to what sort of dancing I would love to do and as it is so far to most classes what I end up doing will depend more on how close they are than being able to meet my top preference for actitivities. I think my top preference would be Scottish dance - but I am realistic to know that after the first 3 times if it is more than 20 minutes by car away then I would be unlikely to continue as I don't like the driving more than I do enjoy the dance. Such is life. It is nice to know myself and not beat myself up for not liking driving.

[jkk]

hi i've been to italy several times - venice, florence, pisa, pompeii, naples, plus!!!! Last year i cruised around the Baltics - Russia, Oslo, Stockholm etc.

Last year i managed to complete at dressage a little - and actually won a competition!

At the moment my nerves are shot a bit, i am struggling with life, i have been "banned" from going away on my own, yet H is reluctant.

[jools]

I've been reading of Hilary's interpretation of what makes marriages work with some interest and I've held back from responding as I'm not sure i'm able to articulate what I'm feeling instinctively here. Hilary advises -
Secondly focus on having something better in your life than worrying about him ...Have a new car or new curtains?
In other words "him" and the marriage are a disaster and rather than dealing with it - look for distractions. Hilary, I can't understand your attitude when you said - Even when he had sex with someone I knew and I was really angry I pretended that it was nothing - just used it as evidence that I had to change some things at home.Reading your threads, Hilary, you are obviously well meaning but this all sounds so wrong. You seem to have blamed yourself for your H's infidelities! I feel so sorry for what you've been going through, JKK, but I don't think that you - like Hilary- will be able to take up belly dancing as a way of ignoring your H's infidelities. It's just too hurtful - too awful. All the distractions in the world won't make it right.

While it's healthy to have separate interests from your partner - they should be seen as enhancing a healthy relationship where as yours (Hilary's) seem to be an escape from a selfish man who puts his needs first. There might be times in a relationship when we do this temporarily as a means of survival - but you seem to have accepted this as your long term marriage situation. I think a woman has to have pretty low self esteem to tolerate this long term. This all seems so wrong - and I'm sure that JKK, while seeking answers won't find them in this solution.
Jools

[Ageing Grace]

Jools, I love your reply!

I think I see where both you and Hilary are coming from.

Looking only at JKK's current situation: placing a tracker in your husband's car isn't the action of a woman who's on top of things emotionally, and does indicate a level of obsession with his activities, that is practically guaranteed to prolong her anxiety & worsen any existing problems.

In this case, anything that helps JKK to boost her self-esteem, which seems fragile at best - and to bring her attention away from her damaging anxieties around her husband's movements - has to be a benefit. I can think of worse things than belly-dancing; at least it makes you feel good about yourself!

Hilary's and my posts on infidelity were bound to provoke dissent. Forums are there for the purpose of discussing different points of view, and hearing others' viewpoints can be a very big help when you've got yourself into an emotional pickle that distorts your perspective.

1aokgal, who does not share my views on cheating, said to JKK:I feel sad for you that you cannot see the truth. He would rather be with you than with some trashy female in the back seat of a car ... Let's do some fixup on you and entice him the way you did 30 years ago. He is worth it and so are you.
Couldn't have put the same thing better myself :D

AG

[Hilary]

Hi Jools

it isn't about distractions, it is about becoming a whole person. A whole person doesn't "need" one's spouse, nor need one's spouse to be perfect. Heavens we all make huge mistakes and along the way we can go quite astray. In learning to accept my husband I learned to accept myself.

Perhaps the new curtains was a bit of a distraction exercise - but it had to do with making sure YOU set the aesthetics of your life - what do YOU want. Aesthetics is a big thing for me. I like nice lines, colours that suit me, order and so on. So this is about meeting my own needs, not a distraction from needs. There are more needs in life that fixing up a marriage - and I also found over long years of experience that my very limited ideas (or my counsellors for that matter) were so far away from what turned out to be helpful that I learned to take things s-l-o-w-l-y. "We have to sort this out, now" seldom worked. Sit on it, meet my own needs while I'm waiting, develop lovely friendships with others, make a lovely home, get an education, not to mention look after the children - in other words - get a life outside of our relationship did work.

And no I don't blame myself for my Hs wandering. I don't blame anyone. Life is what it is. If I hung on in anger for ever who am I hurting? - probably him, but almost certainly myself. Infidelity is only a problem if YOU make it one. If you believe infidelity is totally unacceptable it then IS totally unacceptable. If you believe your H MUST under all circumstances be the primary breadwinner then if he can't be then you will be unhappy. Any time you have a belief where someone MUST act in a certain way then if/when they don't YOU will hurt YOURSELF.

Pain and hurting yourself is unnecessary - as I have said elsewhere it is a vastly overrated activity. When you judge people and find they have deliberately flaunted your MUST values you will hurt yourself every time you make one of those judgements. I attempt to avoid this as much as I can, though being human I still do judge some people, though not as many as I used to. And my personal pain levels have dropped substantially and I'm happier now that I have ever been in 40 years of married life.

Hey, my husband was no more selfish, nor immature than any other man I know. We just had bad patches in life, but then no life is perfect.

As an example of my husband's commitment and unselfishness to me, he looked after me and two children when I was very ill for a number of years. He put up with my extreme negativity, with my major depression, and when the disease was in full flood with my face a total mess covered with a horrendous painful superating sores he told me how beautiful I was every day.

In all my husband probably had a number of bad years, but then as I've just told you, so have I. We got married for better or worse, etc.
And why give up 20 years of excellence, 15 years of OK, for 3 years of not OK, and 2 years of bad. I might never have found such an otherwise caring, committed person who would look after me during my worst.

Just because things might be bad for a year or two doesn't mean it has to be bad forever.

[jkk]

I'm definately not on top of things emotionally. As for a fixup, i'm a pretty good looking woman, could do with losing a few pounds though! Maybe i should buy a few new clothes. My H gets very twitchy if i do myself up, make-up, clothes etc, and then starts suspecting i am up to something.

I have read so many accounts from people who suspect their partners infidelity, many have been in a quandry for months wondering if the affair is still going on, the level of their anxiety is evident. I don't won't to prolong the doubt, i want to know, and if he still is cheating i want a divorce. It's 6 months now since i found out, admittedly my gut feeling might be a bit muddled, but it wasn't totally wrong.

In truth, i really don't know how i feel about my marriage and my life, but i know i am suffering physically from the stress. The counsellor thought one of my main problems in life was my ignoring things i disliked, blocking things out that i found painful, rather than sorting out problems and expressing myself. One problem we have always had is "compromise". My H didn't ever compromise and used anger as a way of bullying me and getting his own way.

[Ageing Grace]

My H gets very twitchy if i do myself up, make-up, clothes etc, and then starts suspecting i am up to something. ...
... My H didn't ever compromise and used anger as a way of bullying me and getting his own way.
Ouch, JKK! :mad: How unpleasant for you.
i want to know, and if he still is cheating i want a divorce
Like so many other people, I've been through the loathesome processes of "Finding Out". It made me despise myself, added to the relationship's problems, and put our friends in an awkward position.

Someone eventually pointed that, as I was unhappy in my marriage, and was basically looking for a reason to end it, I didn't actually need the evidence. It was bitter advice to take but - in my case - it was correct.

Just a thought ...

JKK, please DO some nice things for yourself! The "fixing up" part isn't to imply you're unattractive, it's about nurturing yourself & feeling good. It will shore you up :)

Take good care.
AG x

[Hilary]

Hi jkk

Sorry that H is suspicious if you make the best of yourself. But I don't think that should be a reason not to make yourself feel good. As AG says it isn't about being unattractive - I want to echo her words about nurturing yourself.

You mention having a counselor and you mention not knowing how you feel about your marriage and life. May I ask what is stopping you from knowing? Is it that you don't dare find out because you would otherwise feel very angry and you don't know how to manage that? Or is it that your life is just so busy you don't have time for yourself? Or???

In the meantime be nice to yourself.

[jools]

Dear JKK
I'm definately not on top of things emotionally. Completely understandable. You're going through an incredibly upsetting time where you feel out of control - which at the moment you are. You can't regain control until you know what you want - and you're still working this out. I don't won't to prolong the doubt, i want to know, When things were bad between my H and I, I tried to do my own thing and let him sort out his problems - but it got to the point when I was desperate to know one way or another and started to take more direct action to find out. It's THAT feeling that causes the mental anguish. But it doesn't mean it's wrong - it means that we're persuing a painful path that (for us) is necessary. Some people find it possible to turn a blind eye. I couldn't. What you said about admittedly my gut feeling might be a bit muddled, but it wasn't totally wrong. Gut feelings are seldom wrong - and that was my biggest lesson. Now I say "always trust your guts".

In truth, i really don't know how i feel about my marriage and my life, --- not yet JKK - but you will. You're still trying to figure it all out - but you'll get there.
but i know i am suffering physically from the stress.The suffering that you're going through now does cause intense physicl pain as well. A lot of us have felt this. You've said you need to know - I think you already know - but I understand your need for tangible evidence. If just to shut them up when once again they accuse you of being paranoid. And let's be honest, without the proof you'll always be doubting yourself as well as him. I can see all the logic in why this shouldn't be necessary - but for me it was. Once I had my proof there was no more room in my mind for "what ifs". I shut that door and began the painful process of getting over him - which took just over two years. The brain will reprogram itself given time - but there's no quick fix.
My proof was downloaded phone bills - it was the most painful day of my life - but I've never regretted it. And I've moved on big time. I'm happy now. And you will be once you've got through this horrible time. Just another viewpoint to add to the pot!
Jools XXX

[jkk]

I told my H that someone had said they saw him driving around, park for a minute, drive off, then park again for a minute near the O/W house. He totally denied it, refusing to talk until i named the person who was "making it up". He deserves an oscar! I didn't expect him to admit it.

We haven't had any bad arguements about it, but i have stated i know he is lying, he just denies it. He even started joking about going out to do a spot of stalking. Yesterday, i again told him that i didn't think he was seeing the O/W, but i did believe "what i was told (know)", and that he should try to imagine how it has made me feel and how it has affected me.

He has stopped trying to convince me and has gone quiet.

I feel confused, depressed, stressed and fustrated, but also feeling a bit dead and numb.

jkk

[jkk]

Hi i told H someone had seen him parking for a few minutes and driving around O/W house. He denied it of course - he deserves an oscar! Just told him i knew he was lying, and to think how it makes me feel.

Knowing has been awful, i want to tell him how i know, but can't. Maybe it wasn't worth it putting in his car - who knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JKK

[dave123]

Hi JKK,

Sorry to hear you are going through all this confusion. Is there any other reason why the car might have stopped at this place for a minute or two? Local shop, traffic lights etc etc.

Putting the device in his car has raised questions and doubt which i think you already had, i can't imagine how hard it is to get trust back, especially now that it seems that you are both lying about different things. Be honest with yourself and with your partner, at least then you know you have done your best even if it all doesn't work out.

Good luck,

Dave

[jkk]

No reason at all, he parks just out of view, so he can't be seen from O/Ws house, but he can see the front of it.

I don't know if i should tell him. Deception doesn't sit comfortably on my shoulders, and it has been affecting me. Think i might tell him - if only to salve my mind.

I just don't know

JKK

[Flubber]

Hi JKK
I think you have to ask your self a couple of questions

Do you really want him back
What positives will you achieve by telling him about the GPS.

I know that if my wife placed a GPS in m car, that would end it for me.

Keep it to yourself, and work on your own well being

Good Luck

[ukbikerman]

I agree with what you did with the bug, I have done the same myself with my wife - you have to know otherwise it drives you insane!

OK - this may sound pretentious but I have read a fair bit and had LONG discussions with my wife about what happened (and is happening) with her affair, and it sound similar. In her case, she is grieving for the relationship he has lost with the other man. I believe that she has not let go of that relationship to concentrate on our relationship - she still works with the guy, in your case your husband is able to see her - even if it is just being outside her house.
My wife says she wants me, and wants to make a go of it, your husband probably says the same. However until my wife, and your husband, let go of THAT relationship to concentrate on yours, until they find what they need in marriage rather than outside the marriage, things are going to be difficult. It does not matter whether they are still "seeing" each other.

The marriage has broken, it cannot be fixed but it can start again. Rediscover what you want, what he wants, talk about what you and he he missed in your "old" marriage so he won't look outside when you start your "new" marriage. Personally, I have yet to do this, there are other complications in my life that at the moment are preventing us making this break and new start (I hope it will be a new start!) but thats what I am going to do. I DON'T neccesarily mean physically split up, but I DO believe a line has to be drawn on the past. Trust will still be an issue, it will be part of the new relationship, but in time that can heal.

Good luck

[jkk]

A timely reminder, straight out of the book!

Many thanks

JKK

[Ageing Grace]

The marriage has broken, it cannot be fixed but it can start again. Rediscover what you want, what he wants, talk about what you and he he missed in your "old" marriage so he won't look outside when you start your "new" marriage.

What a superb post, UKB!

JKK - will you be able to do this ... or would you want to?

I'm wary of 'mind reading', especially on forums, but I think I've heard the reasons why you feel desperate to figure out where you stand vis-a-vis your marriage. You must be unbearably stressed. Do you have some kind of a plan to gain quiet time for your self?

Grace's off-the-wall idea for this week: How about a few days at one of those convent retreats? Peace, tranquillity, spirituality, guidance if you want it ... and absolutely no reason for hubby to worry about you :)

Thinking of you,
AG

[jkk]

I would love to be able to draw a line under what has happen. But, even though he states he loves me and wants to be with me, i tend to agree with UKB - that my H has not really let go of the relationship with the o/w, despite not actually being with her. That is probably what i have been "sensing", that "gut feeling" of things not being quite right.

The stress has been dreadful. Having some sort of evidence that he has not actually been in contact with the o/w has help. UKBs post has reminded me of how difficult the processess are. My health is suffering now. My daughter thinks i have patches psoriasis (spelling??) for the first time in my life.

I can't get away on my own at all - H has banned me. But, i am going away in a couple of weeks - for a Valentines weekend! That's a first! If all is ok, and nothing happens in the meantime!

JKK

[jkk]

I feel so stressed

I think he saw her after work - he got dropped of around the corner instead of outside our house, with quite a heavy work bag. Very clean hands, instead of the usual dusty ones, a comb in his pocket and had a long blonde hair on his jumper, and when we went to bed he had scratches on his back.

Got to face up to this, but i can't stop crying at the moment. I feel so bad

[Ageing Grace]

Oh god, JKK, how awful for you!

Yes you have got to face up to this. Face this: YOU DESERVE BETTER.
Now, soon, tomorrow.

Now you are both lying & cheating. Is this what you hoped for? Of course not. You must both be so miserable. Now I'm being bossy; nothing else worked! GO AWAY. Take time for yourself. Don't ask permission, don't fit it in with what other people want from you. Don't argue with your husband. You can do that later, when your head's a little calmer. Sod any other plans. Stay with your mother if you like her company (not if she'll be a challenge!) or a best friend, a favourite sister, or go to a retreat, or book into your favourite hotel somewhere. Sleep, have long baths and take long walks. Breathe deeply.

That's an order. Do it now.

Love,
AG.

[jkk]

I tried to talk to him earlier. He just denies it totally. Do you think i should ask her in the morning? Am i stupid? He said if he had been with her she wouldn't of scratched him.

I can't go, i have horses to do.

[Ageing Grace]

I tried to talk to him earlier. He just denies it totally. Do you think i should ask her in the morning? Am i stupid? He said if he had been with her she wouldn't of scratched him
No, lovely, you're not stupid. You're just trying to hang on to a dream that isn't the same anymore :(

You have all the evidence you could possibly want. I'm so sorry.

I really don't think you'll help anything by digging further. You must believe what you've seen - or you'll end up questioning your own sanity (that actually did happen to me; I later discovered there's loads of advice on the internet, telling men how to do it!!!)

JKK, you're stressed to breaking point and you've only recently regained your health. Don't lose it again over this, just when you'll need your resources.

The only thing you need to deal with right now is your own well-being; everything else can wait. Please take yourself away from all this; make space for your self.

Everything else can wait until you're stronger.
Do it. Please.

[Ageing Grace]

Sorry, I missed about the horses. Then can you get someone to come & stay with you?

[jkk]

Hi, a quick update.

The scratches were made by a comb - i could tell the next morning. The hair was a horse hair - too thick for a humans.

That night was enough for me. I seem to have acquired some strength from somewhere. I don't like what i've become - weak and dishonest, so it's chin up, no more lying, and if i find something unsettling i am just going to face it.

I've had enough of worrying, fretting and doubt.

I told him about the GPS in the car, and him driving around her house, i offered to show him the results. He still tried to deny it, but i explained it was a tracker placed in our car, and not me watching a car on google earth. He said he just cannot remember! He was a bit angry - and hurt that i would do such a thing. I explained that i did it to try and convince myself that he was not 'playing around'; to give me peace of mind.

I also pointed out i had told him about the GPS (he didn't discover it), i knew he had been lying to me, and that i didn't like the way his affair had affected me, making me so dishonest and devious. I am not prepared to become a person like that.

We did go away for valentines - it was grim. The friday was great. He didn't even buy me a valentines card for the saturday. I was a bit upset, and he went out and got me one. Saturday night he got very drunk, narky and abusive, and said things about his affair. I didn't argue, i just walked back to hotel room and packed.

I got up the next morning, dressed, and walked. I don't think he has ever moved so quick when he realised i was going without him. He caught up with me in the car park - i gave him 5 minutes to pack. He was so annoyed - we had paid the hotel for 3 nights - how could i just try and go without him. I just said what does he expect- tough.

This friday, again he brought up the subject of his affair, at first in a bitchy way, i told him i was not prepared to argue about it, he did talk some more, saying of how he had wanted end the affair 100s of times, and that when he had, she had come actually around our house and had threatened to tell me, he said he realised he had little option but to carry on seeing her, if he wanted to remain married to me, then over the next couple of years he had become emotionally attached to her.

Things have changed in our relationship. I don't know what to make of it, or maybe i just cannot be bothered!

[Ageing Grace]

Oh, JKK, I'm so HAPPY (and relieved) to see your return to reason!!!

I don't know what to say about recent events - but suspect you're less in need of a stranger's feedback now :)

Thanks so much for posting. I hope you will add your thoughts as they develop.
Love,

AG x

[jkk]

Hi Grace,

Feeling stronger and stronger!

I love the little prayer you left! Looking at the forums i can appreciate how similar, and different my situation has been to some of them. I suppose i am beginning to reassess my life and future prospects with my H, in a very quiet and reasoned way. It's like a cloud lifting. Seeing things how they really are, not how you would like or fantasize them to be.

Looking at my H and my assumptions about him. Did the affair turn him into a liar and a cheat, or was he always like that? Was it the circumstances at that time? Did he get himself into a situation he couldn't get out of? Does any of that really matter?

He maintains he loves and wants to be with me, but the past months with him has been dreadful. In fact, most our 32years together has been turbulent! I think i fell in love with the man i would like him to be, not the man he is. Yes he does have some very good points, but some pretty bad ones too!

JKK

[1aokgal]

There is no way I would throw 31 years down the drain for what happened with you. The woman LOVED filling your head full of stories and details. She hoped you would throw him out so then he would go to her.

Build back the love and trust and leave this discussion dead and buried. Hopefully, you are okday and can give him what he needs and she probably did everything she could do to keep him.

Personally, I would not do the GPS ..I would tak e it on faith that he was with me because he loves me and the other was somthing he now regrets. Don't be threatened becaus ehe made a mistake. If he did not love you..he would have left you altogether.

Go back to dating and doing things together. Give him some laughter and fun and not all serious. sickness can be a lot of serious stuff. You deserve to be happy. I bet he regrets the loss of trust and tries very hard to reassure you now. Don't throw all those good years away. Forgive him...and make the next years good ones.

[JWD]

I suppose i am beginning to reassess my life and future prospects with my H, in a very quiet and reasoned way. It's like a cloud lifting. Seeing things how they really are, not how you would like or fantasize them to be.

Looking at my H and my assumptions about him. Did the affair turn him into a liar and a cheat, or was he always like that? Was it the circumstances at that time? Did he get himself into a situation he couldn't get out of? Does any of that really matter?

JKK

You've just put into words exactly how I'm feeling right now. It's like an awakening but I've not searched for it and I'm not sure I want to know the answers yet.

[jkk]

Hi JWD,

i think things are very early days for you yet. I seem to be over the worst now. After all, what can happen to me, with regards to my marriage, that i am not prepared for, and could not cope with. If i find out he is cheating again, we WILL divorce. I can build a new life for myself. I have had counselling. I saw a solicitor got advice, and tidied up a few finacial 'loose ends'. The panic attacks have ceased - at long last! My weight loss seems to have plateaued ( 4 stone lost!). I don't cry anymore.

But, it has taken me nearly 8 months. I have come to realise that i do not want to live my life the way it has been. With or without my husband, i am going to enjoy life. I will be that loving, happy, honest, confident woman i was.

The future will tell.

I wish you well,

JKK

[Hilary]

Hi JKK

You say, "Did the affair turn him into a liar and a cheat, or was he always like that?" As long as you frame thoughts in such strong language there will always be a wedge between you. Nearly all affairs by their very nature mean that the truth will not be told. If you think back to when you were younger (if not still, now), you would have probably not been strictly honest if you did something wrong and didn't want to be found out. In fact, I have heard, that in children it is a sign of intelligence when they learn to tell lies to be self protective.

If someone has an affair and lies about it, it may not be only to protect them, it might also be genuinely that they don't want to hurt you either. Not to mention, avoid the fights that would occur.

So if you want to be together, then let it go. Otherwise it will always torture you - and that is not good. If you want to be happy and confident then torturing yourself is not the way to go. Let go, forgive, put all stong judgements behind you and move on to a better life.

I hope it all goes well for both of you.