marriage is good, how do we get the message across?

[Jenny Wilson]

Bedford Community Family Trust organised a "Hope for marriage" day on Saturday. One of the speakers was MP for NE Bedfordshire Alistair Burt who is a firm believer that marriage benefits society in all sorts of ways but it was his comments in the discussion time that really hit me.

How do we get the message across? What we need to do is bring in the NGOs to give the message as the experts so that politicians can disengage slightly, the political shutters will be removed then from between the parties to look at the actual issues involved

comments please

[Hilary]

As someone who lives on the other side of the world and in a different culture I am a bit bemused. What have NGOs got to do with marriage? And why would they help?

I think it has to be more grass roots than experts. It needs to be modelled by those of us who value it. We need to show how it benefits us and not be embarrassed about things not being perfect.

We also have to wrestle the conversation of those who equate marriage with gay bashing as in "legalising gay relationships destroy families" a logic I have never been able to fathom.

We need, in my mind, to be respectful of everyone in a marriage type relationship of commitment, honour, friendship and support even if they haven't been through a marriage ceremony. The importance is the preparedness to be there for each other, to encourage each other to grow into the whole person they can be, to love, cherish and support in good times and the difficult times.

Does England have the equivalent of Oprah? These are the people we need to get to promote, I would have thought.

[Dave]

Hi Hilary

Well I certainly agree that we need to get high profile people in the media onboard, though sadly we don't have an "Oprah" here in UK.

Where are you from btw?? In the US of course there is lots of government work through the "Healty Marriage Initiative" and there has been quite a bit of suport in Australia through AIFS.

I don't disagree with you on the personal stuff of "living it" either - just think we need both private and public support for marriage her ein UK right now

Dave

[Ageing Grace]

Hilary, our politicians are forever trying to influence family life & education - to cut a predictable story down to its obvious essentials: the polls tell them they're out of touch with everyday life, so they commission some more research about everyday life. Then they use this to create 'family' NGOs, launch 'family' election platforms, and to introduce 'family' legislation.

My opinion on all this is doubtless clear - but Jenny's right, in that the NGOs inform policy as well as public opinion, and channel the budgets.

The initiatives that look sound to me - like parenting courses, relationship & marriage education, better creche provision, more emotional/psychological assistance, babycare vouchers and so forth - are woolly & easily subverted: either they don't get off the ground or they're hijacked by single-agenda NGOs.

I don't know whether it's better in other countries (naturally, each has its strengths & weaknesses). Just possibly, our legendarily free press makes such frustrating processes somewhat more visible. In any case, Jenny's question is very valid - in the UK at least.

It could be rephrased: "How do we persuade governments to support marriage and families?" But that's an age-old question, and has been subverted as many times as it's been answered ...

[Raymond]

This government tends to reward irresponsibilty I think. It appears that the quickest way to get housed for intance is to have a child out of wedlock. In any area the responsible will be watched to make sure they are paying the right taxes etc. Marriage is a part of this and this government have gradually whittled away all the financial incentives to be married, not that we got married for them.

I visit youth prison once or twice a month and I can say that nearly 100% of inmates have no proper relationship with a father. Father is just a fella there once but now drifting around. I know that one cannot force a stable relationship but a recognition of the responsibility taken on would be a boost. Stable families must be saving the taxpayer billions. Obviously more help should be given to those in marriages, especially when they are going though a problem like many on here are.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

Raymond, I understand your vested interest in the concept of a father - and no-one could disagree that a stable, loving family (nuclear or extended) is the best possible grounding for tomorrow's adults.

However, governments cannot force stability or loving on their populations.

I posted in Surd's thread, about the changes in marriage that have occurred since the Sixties. Although what we now have is far from perfect: we are at least free of the legal & financial controls that made each home a private theatre, where horrible tragedies could be played uninterrupted as well as happy tales.

In the many reviews of family policy that took place from 1960-1980, the word "control" was used over and over. There is no doubt that family law, then, was implemented as a method of social & financial control - essentially, controlling the workforce.

I am amazed that so many people today imagine it's possible to control marital relations, in a helpful way, through law. What would you propose - that uncaring and selfish spouses be tried in court??!

The first stages of divorce liberalisation did, indeed, require the couple to air their grievances in court. The only people to benefit from that were lawyers! The 'automatic' divorce, after a cooling period, was introduced precisely as a response to the long-drawn-out (and expensive) damage created by those first attempts at 'reduced' legal control of marriage.

Mine is the only vote in Dave's thread, for government "picking up the pieces". Dave didn't include an option for a government role as educator, which would be my preference. After all, what are we forum members here doing, if not learning?

I think we'd gain more from improved relationship skills, and better-managed expectations, than from a swathe of legislation - which could never alter human behaviour.

AG

[Raymond]

AG I am not saying to control anything. I was merely pointing out instances where the lack of a father had dire consequences on the wellbeing of the children. I think we have to see it as it as a society to improve it. Laws can only contain evil not produce good. I am aware of that.

ppearso I didn't know I got a reply on here. I will look at what you say.

Raymond

[clockwork orange]

There needs to be a book with most concivable issues, .

There is - its called the Bible.

[Dave]

Guys

This thread seems to be drifting off into a mire of pseudo-christian discussion of sexual practice - wayy off topic.

The original question was about how we migh change the general public perception that marriage is just the same as any other form of adult relationship (ie ignoring the fact that it's based on some really deep promises), and re-build the affection and respect in which it used to be held.

Dave