How can I get her to realise what she's losing?

[kyalan]

Right, here goes - not so brief history

Met wife when both 17
Had a long distance relationship for 2 and half years (over 200 miles apart) for which every weekend, I would get the last train after work and arrive in her hometown at 11:30pm on the Friday night, then get the last in-direct train back to my hometown on a Sunday night which sometimes arrived at midnight and beyond.
Did this every weekend for 2 years - that's no lie either - every weekend for 2 years!! (and it cost me a fortune believe me)
decided it was becoming too stressful, but when discussed about moving in together I was given the ultimatum, "well, it's my hometown or nothing"
She only has a small family and didn't want to move from her family - as this would decimate them.
So, loving her as much as I do, I gave up everything - a good job with a large company (which I could have still been working for even to this day) a large loving family (I have 3 sisters, and 3 brothers, plus their partners & kids) and also a major U.K town, for which was up and coming and mainly some really good friends.
I re-located, got a new job, new family, but being from different ends of the country (and you'll understand this if your a southerner going into northerner territory) I never really made any friends up here, and the only real mates I had where work colleagues.
But I loved her to bits and this was my new life, which I did love and appreciate.
We decided to get married and got engaged - this is where things changed.
We had bought a house by this time and we were really enjoying living together.
She got made redundant from her job and I supported her for 12 months - nothing asked of her other than her love and affection.
Leading up to the wedding, I was made to feel like a spare part by being told (by my wife) that I was "JUST the groom" and that "The wedding day is not for the groom, it's the brides day and I'm just there to make her look good"
I wasn't allowed to get involved in anything to do with the wedding and nor were my family (who live 200 miles away) as my wife considered it too difficult for them to help when they were that far away.
The future mother in law (who can be very dominating) made 50% of the decisions and the wife made the other 45% of the decisions - the 5% was left to me - this being the suits for the ushers/best man/fathers
I felt un-needed and like I couldn't do anything right, so I said I needed a break from her as she was doing my head in.
So she went to her mums for a week.
I soon missed her and asked for her to come back, but that was the first time we had a break.
Anyway, we got married, which was lovely and I really appreciated everything she had done for the day and I understand now that it is a brides day and everyone is looking at the bride and how nice they look etc., and I admitted I was wrong to have ever asked her to leave.
To make matters worse, I had started this new job and there was plenty of women who worked there. Now, being from different ends of the country, we use different words to talk to people - like in this area people refer to their friends as "duck", "shug", "hun" or "pal" - whereas, where I'm from people say "luv" "babe", "mate" or "darling" (hopefully this makes sense)
I had been sent a text from one of the women at my new workplace asking if I was going to the works do, to which I replied "no thanks babe"
My wife saw this as some kind of affectionate thing towards this woman - and trust me, this woman is one of the worst looking women you will ever meet, and I'm not just saying that, she really is an eyesore.
So she accused me of having an affair etc.,
I proved that nothing was going on because she checked up on me for about 6 months (I didn't mind this because I had nothing to hide and nothing is private in my life and I have no secrets from her)
A couple of years passed without incident, then she says she's unhappy - by this time we're 21 and we'd been living in our 1st house for 2 years. She says that she wants to move to a bigger house, nearer her parents, and her sisters house and wants to have a baby - to which I am thrilled about.
So again, we move in May 2005 aged 21 to a 3 bed semi detached house in a nice part of the city. This is further from my work and it's more difficult for me being further from the city, but I figure, hey, she's happy, that's the main thing.
We're now living less than 1 mile from her parents.
We move in and within 2 months I suspect something is up - she starts acting weird and I catch her talking on her phone to another man.
She wasn't talking smutty or anything like that, but the fact that she dissapeared to take the call and went red when I asked her who it was....she admitted that she got on great with this man and that the conversation wasn't like that.
I believed her because I do believe that a man and woman can be friends without having a sexual relationship.
But I was really hurt by the sneakyness of it all and ask her to go and stay at her mums for a few days while I had time to think
Anyway, she came back and all was forgiven, but we had problems again, and she became really abusive, threatening towards me and eventually hitting me....so again I asked her to leave.
she came back 2 weeks later saying she was
Whilst she was staying at her mums, we had one drunken night of un-protected sex and 8 weeks after she'd come back, she told me she was pregnant.
Now things were not great over the 8 weeks as we were still in the process of working on our relationship, so this was the last thing I wanted to hear.
I broke down and spoke to her about it saying that the last thing I wanted to do was bring a child into the world under these circumstances.
So we decided that the best thing was to get an abortion - something that we both didn;t really agree with, but thought it for the best.
Thankfully, when we got to the clinic, my wife had been under a lot of stress and had lost an unhealthy amount of weight in 1 week and therefore they would not go through with the procedure that day - so we were re-booked for 2 weeks later.
In those two weeks I have never thought so much about my life and what I wanted from it and also how much I loved my wife and wanted to be with her.
So we both decided to keep the baby and move on with our lives.
She had a good pregnancy, we both really enjoyed it, and she had our beautiful baby boy, and I was so proud.
But my wife has a wonderful knack of putting a downer on everything.
She told me that although I was there for the making of our son, it was her who had been through the pain and it was her who was the real parent and that I'll never understand the pain she went through in having him.
Again, I felt worthless and I really didn't feel needed.
She had major intimicy issues and would not kiss me, cuddle me, and she really resented me for some reason? Most of our friends say she had post-natal depression, but she wouldn't seek help.
So, when my baby boy was 8 weeks old, I had had enough.
I asked her to leave and I couldn't do it anymore.
The biggest shock to my system was having a child and my wife was treating me like that....
The hitting started again, and she was really spiteful.
At this point, I must say that I can't ever just leave - my family live 200 miles away, and my nearest friends are also there.
Plus I have my job so if I do go to my mums, it's a 2 day thing at least and although I can take a couple of days off, we're talking weeks, for which I would be sacked for.
Now don't get me wrong, if my mum lived closer, I would have happily gone to hers for a bit, but it's just a hell of a lot easier for her to go to her mums.
Plus they always encourage her to come stay with them as they love spending time with her.
Anyway, things got nasty when she refused to leave and she got really nasty - she kicked me in the back while I was walking down the stairs carrying our son!
And then rang her dad to say I was asking her to leave again.
Her dad, hearing me shouting in the backround, decided that he'd phone the police - at exactly the same time that I had phoned the police re: my wife.
Needless to say it was embaressing to have 2 cop cars turn up and basically laugh at us.
But I could think of no other way of stopping her from hitting me.
She had already scratched my arms, so that they were dripping with blood, she had also cracked me in the jaw, and punch me in the stomach 15 times.
Now I'm not a small bloke, at 6'4 and about 18 stone, and I wouldn't say I'm whining when I rang the cops to say she hit me - the hits didn't really hurt - the thought of someone you love, hitting you and hurting you - now that hurts more!
She ended up telling me her dad was going to have me killed and that I'd better watch my step.
She also said that she and her family were going to make sure I didn't get to see my son.
In the end, after an eventful day, she left.
I also need to point out, that every time we argue, her family are there within minutes and they will sit in the other room, whilst we argue and won't leave until they think things are o.k.
Believe me, it's really intimidating when your having an arguement with your wife and her parents and sister & partner, plus sometimes her nan & grandad....knowing my family are 200 miles away and can't do a single thing.
As soon as she left I changed the locks on the front door, so she retaliated with a solicitors letter stating she wanted a divorce "due to a third party involvement" - where's this come from?
the next thing - I was accused of being in the local town with my arms around another woman - ???
Now for someone who doesn't go out a lot and hasn't really got any friends, I was being spotted by her friends, on the same night, wearing 5 different outfits, with 5 different women......
not one story matched up, so she dropped the accusation's
I realised what a massive mistake i'd made when I kicked her out, after only 1 week apart - and it took me 5 weeks to beg her to come back
I knew that she still loved me and I knew she was just reacting like this because she was hurt.
everyone does & says hurtful things when they're angry.
6 weeks later, she moved back, along with my baby boy (who she let me see once a week while she was gone)
during this time by the way, she'd also told me that my son wasn't mine and that she'd fancied someone else for a long time....again, to hurt me.
So we started mending our relationship again and things went from strength to strength.
The only problem was - her family
they didn't speak to me for 15 months (started speaking 1 month ago from today)
her dad even started a rumour in the local pub, that I'd given my wife a good beating - I was even confronted by one friend from the pub who said to me "you didn't, did you?"
and from then on, there was a stigma attached to me
I can honestly say I have never hit my wife, nor put my hands on her in a threatening way - I'm not like that and I'm the most placid person you'll ever meet
also, during all of this - even knowing the things they knew, my family never judged my wife and always believed that you shouldn't air your dirty laundry in public.
they were never nasty to her, and never ever brought any of the things up that she did to me.
We even went on holiday together - 15 of us in total and we all had a wonderful time (just my side of the family)
And so we arrive at present day, - just 2 weeks ago.
My wife turns round and says "I don't love you anymore"
She can't give me a reason for two weeks and then she tells me that it's because of what I did to her 15 months ago....
I've begged her to stay and I really really love her.
I couldn't bear to be without her.
But she says she doesn't feel the same and keeps thinking of the nastiness of the previous situation.
There's so much for us to both lose out on, but she thinks that we can stay friends and that our son will have a good upbrining - this is mainly due to the fact that her parents are very well off and have even offered to buy her a house if she leaves me!
In the past two weeks, she's been different. Some days she'll kiss me and cuddle me, then the others, she acts not interested.
Some days she says she does want us to work, then in the same breath she'll say that things aren't meant to be.
I know we can work this out, and the past 15 months have been so good together.
We do argue, but doesn't everybody?
This morning she said she does love me and that she hopes things are o.k
So, this weekend, me and my son are going to stay with my family for 4 days, and she is hoping that she misses me...
If she doesn;t then she says the feeling will have gone and there's no point for us...
I need her to realise how much I really do love her and how I felt 15 months ago and why I couldn't be with her then.
She's never let me forget that I broke down when she told me she was pregnant and she always reminds me that I asked her to get an abortion - even though it was a joint thing.
She keeps telling me that she thinks someone else can make me happier and that she's doing it for me.
She also thinks that I have no reason to file for joint custody and says she'll get full custody as she's the mum.
I don't think she's fully thought everything through?

How do I make her realise how much I lover her and want things to work?
How do I make her realise what she's got to lose?

I know you can;t make somone love you, but I need her to understand why things happened and I honestly believe that if she does, then it will help massively.

Please help:confused:

[kyalan]

sorry, forgot to say - we're both now 25 and I really can't see a life without her

I would obviously move back to my family as I can earn better money and have friends again, but I'd never see my son - which would kill me

I want it to work for the sake of our marriage and also for the sake of our son.
I really do love her and I've been crying non stop for 2 weeks now!

[Alice Alice]

Dear Kyalan

Your 25...1'm 41

when i was your age i had a lot of energy to try to make someone love me

Now i have no patience to keep trying endlessly

Stop and sit down under a tree in the park and think until you stop thinking

once your mind is still ask yourself is it worth it?

BUT you have a son this is the hard part
but trust me you can be there for him and make sure you do

Find someone who will treat you with kindness
how dare she hit you!!
stay away ,,,,,,you are being poisoned by her unreasonable anger

She isn't pretty she just looks that way

[justme&bailey]

Hi Guys,

I just have to add you can make anyone love you...my feelings are you have to let them go to allow them to come back...

You can only let her see whats she missing once your not them....do you understand what im getting at?

Take care

Jmb

[Alice Alice]

yes i understand that and its so true...but on the same hand we need to let go wholeheartedly ...let go of that dove
i just came home from a st Patrick's festive night...hiccup
JMB you remind me of me ,,,,, you need to have everything you pray for ...love ya!

[kyalan]

little update - I've been staying late at work - last night til 10pm, and she didn't like it at all

I went home, got something to eat and then went back to work - she was so shocked that I wasn't going to be there for the evening

She keeps telling me that she wants her own space, yet she keeps inviting me to do things with her (watch TV and go for walks in the park with our son)

She was really different with me this morning and she even told me she did love me, but was having a hard time dealing with what happened 15 months ago - but is it false hope for me?

A feel I need to explain a little bit more about me as a person.

Everything I have ever done has been in the interests of our relationship and our family.

She asked me to move jobs because there was too many women there - ok, the company was crap aswell, but that was her main gripe - so I moved companies - turns out it was a good move cause I now earn about 5k more and I've had 2 promotions - something which she takes full credit for

We recently had 2 weeks in St Lucia and due top the time difference, my son's body clock never adjusted - he woke up everyday at 4:30am! And every day, it was me who got up with him, bathed him, changed him nappy, fed him and took him for a walk - sometimes for a few hours into the local town, just so she could stay in bed and catch up on her sleep.
I even let her have 3 days of sleeping in my sisters room with her, so that we didn't wake her when we were playing at 5 in the morning.

I left her in bed almost every day til 9, and I only woke her up then so that she wouldn't miss breakfast which finished at 9:30.

I did this for 2 weeks and the only thing I asked for was a sleep in the afternoon - which was fine - I slept when he slept and most of the time me and my son would be seen dissapearing to our room for an afternoon nap.

She's never good in the mornings and I get up with him almost every morning - he gets up about 6ish, then I wake her at 7 so she can get ready for work.
She says a quick hello to me and our son and then dissapears back to her room until she appears ready for work at about 8ish.
Now during this time, I have to keep my son busy, and get him and me dressed, and also have a shower (something that my son has started doing with me - just makes it easier)

I bath him every night - EVERY NIGHT! without fail, while she goes and watches her soaps and most nights, I put him to bed, although he does prefer mummy when he's tired. Daddy is just for games and being silly.

Now, I mentioned this to give you an insight as to what kind of person I am
I never moan about it, I do get tired, but not tired of doing things for other people.
I would rather someone else's happiness came before mine.
I'm a people pleaser - can't help it.

And this is what baffles me - she has everything she wants, we are comfortable with money, our house has just been finished being decorated, we have a nice car, a beautiful son, we go on holiday when we want.
To put it bluntly, she's spoilt.
So I wonder why she still treats me like she is doing?
And why she'd want to throw it all away to live in a flat on her own?
Everyone is scratching their heads over it - even her own mum and dad!

[Raymond]

Kyalan do you try and please people out of insecurity and fear of rejection or do you just like to see them happy?

Raymond

[kyalan]

I just like to see people happy and smile
There's no bigger buzz than seeing somebody smile because of something you've done for them

Call me sad, but I love it! :D

[Alice Alice]

very good point
this is the question i ask myself...but i'm mixed in giving an answer
i'm going to a group on co-dependence

Kyalan were your parents harsh with you as a child?

its good your writing down all the good qualities you have in your marriage..this might be a brain storm and when you read it back to yourself your eyes might open

your wife sounds harsh

all the best to you in the journey for recovery of your heart breaks

[kyalan]

thanks Alice, but no, my parents were both really loving

I lost my dad to cancer when I was 12, so my mum took the rest of our family away for a holiday, where I incidentally met my future wife (yes, when we were 12 years old)

So, had my dad not passed away, I would never have met my wife, would never have had my son, and would never have had the things I have now.

I guess I believe that things happen for a reason :)

[Alice Alice]

I'm sad to hear you lost your dad
its good your parents loved each other plus your mom treated you with all her extra love

i am a people person i study myself and people who are close to me
i have kept all my relationships that meant something to me in my life time
my oldest friend is from grade 3 i have other grade school friends i stay in touch with but she is my sister friend and the list goes on through high school friends collage etc

my Husband has cut off all ties of friends and family if it wasn't for me he would have ZERO contact

i have had 3 men in my life the first boyfriend his mom died when he was at the age of 5
his dad was a violent drunk
he grew up embarrassed of his heritage and his lack of respect for himself drove me away plus his treatment of me

my 2nd was my ex husband his dad left him and his mom when he was 3 years old and then his mom died with cancer when he was 15 years old he then lived on the streets for 2 years
He was such a wonderful man that's why i married him, we really connected so well, but the closer we became the more intimate we were he got scared (he had 3 affairs when i was with him)
But he had such a chip on his shoulder about life and eventually he cut me lose i was so heart broken beyond belief.
I ran away across the country all alone he fallowed me a year later and expected me to take him back again
i said i needed to take things slow and suggested he should find his own place. He refused to give me my space and once again abounded me...this time i didn't cry i was happy i used my brain...i smoked him out of my life he was using me like a flea.

My present Hubby had his Dad die when he was 14 by a drunk driver killed him
his mom took him on trips too but she went off the deep end and my Hubby lived with a man who watched porn like no tomorrow.
When his mom had the means to raise him she at this point was on a mission to party hard
He would wake up to endless parties she would have on school nights

Then there is me ....i grew up with a functioning alcoholic father very successful as a middle class family a vacation home big house ...church going family...everyone respected my Dad with the help of my mother covering the craziness that went on he flourished.
i believe my mom was a co-dependent of some kind
my Dad was the black sheep of the 2 children his parents treated him very badly but he became the most successful as far as money goes...his brother died of alcohol liver disease

there is a pattern to my choices in men they all feel abandoned like i do
I'm a people pleas-er i get upset when i try my best to be liked and when someone doesnt like me (rare but it happens) i get mad
I am a people pleas-er to the max...i give love because i want love in return


Are you still grieving the lose of your Dad, is your wife the connection to the memory of your Dad?

when i write my thoughts down a few other thoughts i didn't know was there in my head come out on the paper

[Raymond]

Thanks for your answer Kayalan. You seem a pretty balanced sort of guy, but I'm sure you are not perfect. Who is? The same cannot be said for your wife from what you have said. There are deep problems there which she has brought into the marriage, but they can be worked out. I have been happily married for 25 yrs now, but in the early years there were a lot of teething problems. In those years I had been hit, seen plates smashed, seen her go out and slam the door striding off to nowhere etc. etc. We were completely different from each other but are more as one now complimenting each other. I had my problems too though, not having had love as a child being an orphan etc. We both needed sorting out. We thought we were perfect as single people but marriage exposed some deep flaws in us that were not apparent before. The problems were twofold. One was something in her past passed down from her grandmother, a gypsy, that had to be dealt with through prayer in the church. The other was the lack of physical affection that I expressed (not sex). Touch was her prime love language, hugs, pecks, holding hands etc. When I learned that she felt loved, such a little thing but it opened up things a lot.

I am not saying these are your problems Kayalan, but I am saying there will be keys there somewhere that will give you something to work with. Finding out her prime love language will be a good start. There are only five of them. Touch, Words of Affirmation, Quality time, Gifts (needn't be expensive) and Acts of Service. The personal problems she has are a much bigger challenge but a good marriage will give her a solid basis to be able to start to deal with these.

Raymond

[kyalan]

Thanks for the replies

Alice, my wife wishes she could have met my dad cause everyone always talks highly of him. He was a real good guy and always put my mum and us kids first. I get a lot of my good qualities from him my mum says.

Raymond, Yeah, I get what your saying - I think my wife's "love language" is definately touch.
If she is happy with me, she will hug, hold hands etc., so I always know when she's unhappy as she won't do these things.

I agree, nobody's perfect - especially not me. I have my faults. I don't take life seriously at all and my wife sometimes get's annoyed at that.
But I think if your too serious about life, then it can get you down.
If you don't laugh about it, then you'd cry, right?

I understand that there will be loads of teething problems when we first get together, and although we've been together 8 years, I keep saying that we're still learning and we will be learning for the rest of our lives - LIFE IS ONE BIG LEARNING CURVE!

But she think's if we didn't know everything about each other after 8 years, then we're doing something wrong.....

Do you get what I'm saying? I need her to look at life in a different way, and sometimes her impatience affects her way of thinking.

She wants everything now, now, now!

We had a really good chat last night and she got upset and said she didn't want things to end - is this a good sign for me?

She keeps saying she's hoping she misses me when I go away with our son this weekend, but if she doesn't then she says it's all over......:(

[Raymond]

This feelings business is a dangerous way to carry on Kyalan. Right decisions and commitment will produce the right feelings. This could be where the instability is with her. Love is an act rather than a feeling. If we are subject to our feelings anything could happen. Every day is different. We have to be able to get through the rough patches which takes commitment to each other and an honouring of the vows. In the long run this produces the best feelings and the most stability. Yes you do need to get her to look at life in a different way.

Raymond

[kyalan]

Well, the weekend away was torture.
I had a really good time seeing all my family and spending time with just my son, but then I had to come home.
I was getting positive vibes from the wife whilst I was away, with txts and phone calls - but as soon as I got home, she started again.
Saying she didn't know what she wanted, and that she thinks there's a better life out there for her.
I told her I'd leave and she said don;t be stupid, she'll go to her mums - but that doesn;t solve the problem - her mum and dad do everything for her and she'll never realise how hard it's going to be on her own when they constantly clean up after her.
She won't kiss me, won't touch me, won't go near me - I'm having major personality problems at the moment.
She shouted at the top of her voice to me last night, so I shouted back - so she rang her mum & dad........just because I shouted???
Why can she pick on me and bully me, but the moment I shout, she rings her mum and dad?
I came to work this morning and she said she needs another day to think about things, then she'll make her decision
I love her to bits and I just want to sort everything out.
I've seriously contemplated suicide a dozen times, but I can't because I love my little boy so much and can't do that to him
And everything goes back to what happened 15 months ago (as per the previous post)
The other thing I wanted to ask was - does anyone think she's seeing someone else?
she spent most of the weekend in the pub when she was supposed to be thinking, and she's always hiding her phone and is really secretive about everything

help?!?

[kyalan]

seriously, I'm so low at the moment and you would not believe how f*cked up my life will be if she ends it all.
She has no idea how much I love her and need her - no idea at all :(

[Raymond]

You've got to be a man Kayalan. Yes you do need her but you are in danger of grovelling and not being yourself at the moment. That won't help anyone in the long run. Believe for the best but prepare for the worst as the saying goes. She doesn't know what she wants and comes accross as very immature. Have the parents cut the apron strings yet? Something not right.

Try and not see things from the negative and don't make any decisions when you are feeling like you do. It is difficult for you. You have to give her time to know what she wants. She should be there for you as you are the one who married her, but being a bit flighty she is causing you anguish, but try and not let it get on top of you. You are still an individual and need to be strong, for yourself and for your child and ultimately for her as well.

Raymond

[kyalan]

billy, your right, I'm getting all kinds of mixed signals which is why it's so hard for me.
it would be easier for me (not easy, but at least easier) if she just said, that's it, it's over, final, end of - or even if she told me that she'd fallen for someone else....at least then I'd know where I stood and could start to pick my life up and move on.
but I'm being pushed away, then pulled back all the time
My feelings for her haven't changed at all and I still love her to bits
She's just sent me a text saying "how do I forgive and forget?"
I can only try and make her see things from my perspective and try to make sense of it all.
Nothing makes sense in my life at the moment and I'm at that stage where I'm having 1-2 hours sleep a night and the world seems to be moving at a slightly slower pace
It's not good, i know, but I lay in bed at night and think about everything, cry myself to sleep, then wake up again and the cycle starts again.....
I wish there was an easy solution to all this and she would just say "yes, I want this to work and we'll work at it to make things right"
I can only dream.....

[Lanzo]

Hi Kaylan,

I 've just read you story and I can see that you're having a tough time but dispair, don't give up. I'm not gonna offer advice at the moment but rather make a suggeastion.

Are you a reader ? well if you are I'd suggest you start reading as much material as you can which might be helpful.

May I start with these

Divorce Remedy by Michele Wiener-Davis (This is a real marriage saver)
Good Husband, Great Husband by Robert Mark Alter
The five Love Languages by Gary Chapman


Take care for now

Lanzo

[912jws]

Hi Kyalan,

I have had all the mixed signals but my wife has basically decided what direction she is moving in which has made me realise I need to get on with my life for the sake of me and the kids.
She has also changed the tune with letting me use the car everynow and then with the kids and also asked for the house keys back which she was quite happy for me to have because of seeing the kids.
Yeah I have crap times when I feel low but then I tell myself I am a good person, was a good husband and I am still a great Dad and it's her problem and her loss, I think we all know we loved our other halves and wanted to resolve things but they are on different agendas and have their heads in the clouds, one day they will realise this!

Keep your chin up and move forward.

All the best

Jon

[Lanzo]

Kaylan

May I offer some advice now
seriously, I'm so low at the moment and you would not believe how f*cked up my life will be if she ends it all.
She has no idea how much I love her and need her - no idea at all :(
Herein lays your part of the problem, you are dependant on your W for your happiness, dare I say it, your whole reason for living. I know you may love your W, but you need to change you mindset.

You shouldn't need her for you to be happy, but you should want her to be part of your happiness. The key here is for you to be happy with youself first, then enjoy that happiness with your W. At the moment you are doing everything in your power to make her happy but she rejects it. She rejects it cos it all comes too easy, she may see you a predictable, boring maybe even weak. (no offence intended).

Kaylan, women want a strong man to look up to interms of the relationship, they are looking for the man to be a strong head (although they want to be the neck that turns the head) they are looking for a man that leads.

When I read back now, I think the tone for you marriage was set when your wife made you move to her part of the country (her way or no way). She took the lead there and has had it ever since, she is the boss and she is driving things her way. There needs to be a more balance relationship for the two of you to succeed. Where you've said previously that you put others first, that you get a buzz from helping others, this all sounds very commendable, but it may be the thing that your wife is finding off putting.

If you have time and access to the internet, look up co dependancy relationships and their destructive nature, then you’ll ge an idea of where you and your wife are heading.

http://joy2meu.com/codependent4.htm

Ok that’s all for now get reading and get posting.

Lanzo

[kyalan]

Thanks Lanzo, that link made perfect sense to me.

Next twist in the story coming.....

I got fed up with the situation and taking everyones advice I thought, "right, that's it, I'm taking control of this situation"

So, I went home and told her I can't be treated like this and that we should call it a day.
She then replies "but I don't want it to be over"

What the hell is going on????

So we started talking last night and she said she does still love me, but she thinks that we could start doing more as a couple, trying to spend as much time together without our son.
I've always supported the idea of him staying with relatives for the night so we can go out and have fun together, but she's never been much for the idea before....so why now?
She's been kissing and cuddling me all night last night - even initiating it sometimes, and even kissed me this morning when I woke up

So after going home in a positive mood and thinking I was going to be strong, I'm now all confused again.

The last thing I said to her this morning was that I wasn't going to fight for the relationship anymore because I didn't see the point if she didn't want me anyway.

To which she started to cry and said I was being a heartless b*stard!

Am I being heartless or have i got a right to stick to my guns and make her do the running for a change?

I'm fed up with the messing round and she either wants me or she doesn't - am I right?

:mad:

[Lanzo]

Kaylan !!!!

Take a step back before you mess this up.

You’ve just got a grip of yourself and shown W the strong man you can be and she has responded and told you how the two of you should be as couple, that’s great this is what you should latch on to. But now you want to step beyond that and get her to chase you. Sorry but you’ve just missed the point (re read the link on co dependant relationships.)

Also re read this bit of you post, you become strong man she responds as loving wife



So we started talking last night and she said she does still love me, but she thinks that we could start doing more as a couple, trying to spend as much time together without our son.
I've always supported the idea of him staying with relatives for the night so we can go out and have fun together, but she's never been much for the idea before....so why now?
She's been kissing and cuddling me all night last night - even initiating it sometimes, and even kissed me this morning when I woke up



This is you starting to mess up now


The last thing I said to her this morning was that I wasn't going to fight for the relationship anymore because I didn't see the point if she didn't want me anyway.

To which she started to cry and said I was being a heartless b*stard!

Am I being heartless or have i got a right to stick to my guns and make her do the running for a change?







For now don't try to figure things out, just do the work you need to do to fix your marriage. She opened up to you last night and this is how you respond in the morning, yes I would agree with her.


When you get home fix it and fix it fast. Tell her the two of you will be a great couple, the two of you will do things together. The two of you will work together to stop out side influence of her relatives.

The key thing is the two of you working together not one of you chasing the other.

Lanzo

[kyalan]

I'm on a total headf*ck at the moment.
I love her to bits, but one minute she loves me, then she doesn't, then she does....it's never ending
She says I can be the perfect husband when I want to be.....and by this she means when I don;t answer back and just accept everything she says
She's e-mailed me today and said "can't wait to see you tonight x"
And I have replied "I can't wait to see you too x"
But I know when we get home, she'll be ready to start an arguement about other things.....
I was at the point where I was convinced everything was over and there was nothing to fight for, but now...now it's all different, and my head is going to explode from thinking too much!!!
aaaahhhhhhhh!!!!:confused:

[Raymond]

This hot and cold business must be torture for you Kayalan. I am wondering if there is some kind of control operating from the parents in that they have not cut the apron strings when your wife became of age. Some people are controlled like that in the wrong way almost becoming subserviant to their parents or one of them. This would affect your marriage in the sense that she has not been released into her marriage. Just a thought.

You said she texted you asking how she can forgive and forget. This is worth taking up as she is asking for your help. You could ask what is she trying to forgive. Maybe something you done?

When people love us we need to let them go and they will come back stronger.

Raymond

[912jws]

Hi Kyalan,

I think the fact you are getting some response/feelings from your wife is a good start and you two need to sit down and talk about what has gone wrong and how you can make things better for the future and what will make you both happy.
My wife totally switched her emotions off which was hard to deal with so at least you are not in that situation.

I do really hope you can work this out as it sounds you still have a good foundation to save this!

Good luck

Jon

[kyalan]

I'm starting to wonder if other people are influencing what she's thinking.....not just her parents either

She has two recently single friends who are always begging her to go out.
They are both currently on the re-bound and my wife goes out with them for support.

One of the friends has just been dumped by her husband of 5 years - apparently, he had been sleeping with someone for 6 months and dropped the bombshell on her - this was about a month ago - so this particular friend is intent on revenge and is after any single man to be with....they have twins together who are 2 years old and she was devastated til she went out and met another man - since then that man has been and gone, along with 3 others so I'm told...

The other friend has just left her boyfriend of 15 years - not married, but he's the father to two of her kids. Now he was an arsehole to her. He used to beat her at least once a day, and he has left her in 30k worth of debt - so she's over the moon now she's got rid of him, and keeps telling my wife how happy she is to just have the kids and for him to be out of her life

Both of these friends I would call bad mothers - no sorry, that's a bit harsh. They are good mothers, but they never ever spend time with their kids - they always drop their kids with their mums and dads and spend all weekend on the town, spend all day Saturday and Sunday in bed and collect their kids Sunday night - apologies if anyone thinks that's a good thing, but I think that's an appalling way to live and not spend any time with their kids? (they both work full time aswell)

Now I know these are completely different situations to ours, but could she be seeing that their enjoying theirselves on their own, and thinks maybe she could have the same kind of fun?

[kyalan]

thanks for all the replies

billy, I think I can learn a lot from you mate
you seem to know where i'm coming from

we'll see what she's got in store for me tonight - she's rang and she sounds positive on the phone.....hmmm..

will keep posting

[kyalan]

right, here we go

got home last night and everything's fine - greeted with a kiss when she saw me, was saying she really wanted to work at things.....until our son went to bed at 7pm....
oh dear - this is where she changed.
She randomly came out with the comment that she wasn't sure if she was making me happy and felt it was for the good of MY health if we split up
So we chatted a bit and she then changes her mind - AGAIN!
She says she doesn;t know whether she's coming or going and that she's confused because she wants all the good things that I bring to her life, but she can't be bothered to have a relationship as she now believes ALL men are hard work!!
So I dig a little deeper and we talk for hours about this
In the end, we were getting no-where so I decided to go and have a shave and shower, and give myself a little bit of grooming. (I'm a metrosexual man, and yeah I enjoy face scrubs, moisturising lotions etc., )
Whilst having a shave, I can hear her laughing hysterically downstairs - giggling, and talking quietly
i crept out on to the top of the stairs to have a listen (bad I know)
her friend (one who's husband left her for another woman) was saying how great it was being single and that she's meeting another man this weekend and would my wife go with her as this man she's meeting has a single friend - to which my W replied, yeah that sounds good.
She also said that she's moving out and would my W help her, to which my wife replied "yeah, if you help me next month when I move out"

Now I know all this because I confronted my W shortly after the phone call and she broke down about it and told me the whole conversation

She swears to me that nothing is going on, and that she hasn't made any plans to move out, and she says she's just "humouring" her friend.
She said that she had looked around at properties and that she was going to leave last week, but couldn't bring herself to do it

She said she wants the single life, but doesn't want the loneliness - what the hell does that mean?

I think she wants to be with someone else, if she isn't already, or there is someone waiting in the wings for me to dissapear

a very distressed and confused Kyalan:(

[Lanzo]

Hi Kyalan,


You and you wife got together at a very early age and married whilst still young, and settled in to married life. Maybe W is now feeling that she has missed out on the single socially scene, and in the two new friends, she has found the vehicle to help her explore it.

I think you and W need to get into some marriage guidance very soon, or you should have a very serious heartfelt talk with wife. In this talk you’ll have to let her know that you love her deeply, but if she feels she needs to explore what’s “out there” then you not going to stand in her way. However, whilst your going to leave every avenue open to her, you’re not going to put your life on hold. This is a tough route to take and you can only do it if you’re prepared to risk losing her. But if you try to hold her back you’re going to get more of the same as what you’re getting now for a very long time.

Sorry, Kayalan but may need to let her go to get her back for good.

Lanzo

[kyalan]

Hi Lanzo,

I see exactly what your saying. Let her go to realise what she's going to lose...but then I don't want her back after she leaves to "explore" what else is out there
It would be so hard for me to take her back if she ended it, and we'd be in the same situation, only vice versa if she was asking me to take her back...

It's a difficult one, that's for sure. But like you say, she's only pulling against me if I try and stop her....the ol' push pull routine!

Oh, what a mess!

Kyalan :(

[kyalan]

thanks billy

It's so hard to deal with and I really appreciate everyone's input on this
and I do take comfort that other people have been in my situation and know how i'm feeling
I read through all the threads on this website and there are loads and loads of identical stories - and I mean almost to the word. and it's not just from men, but also women get the same thing from their husbands aswell
And 90% of the threads I've read have come to the same conclusion sooner or later - a 3rd party...there is that small glimmer of hope that the other person has realised their mistake and came back with their tail between their legs - but like you, I cannot accept my W back after she goes elsewhere...no can do

I take my wedding vows very seriously (maybe the last of a dying breed) and only last night I removed my wedding ring - she removed hers before she even told me that she had problems and has kept them off since (she actually claimed that she was getting a rash under her wedding ring due to fake tan getting stuck???) - but she cried when I removed mine and said it was a very "final" thing to do.:confused:

I just don't know what to say to her tonight?
I can't help thinking that she's made her mind up and that she has some kind of eleaborate plan to get rid of me in the long run, but is keeping me here for convenience

I can't hang around and wait for her to keep f*cking me about

Kyalan

[Raymond]

I don't see why you have to take her back either Kayalan if she plays the field. It will be adultery in my book and that is not a game. This double mindedness leads to chronic instability. I don't think she is worthy of you Kayalan as far as I can see.

Raymond

[kyalan]

Thanks Raymond, that's cheered me up a bit

I'm not going to say anything tonight, leave it with her and see what happens

I don't mean to be childish, but last night when I was clean shaven, looking a million bucks, she asked me "who have you made all the effort for?!?!?"
I simply said "you"
I could tell she was hating it, but it did make me feel better :D

Thanks guys!
Kyalan

[kyalan]

From going home in a positive mood, I'm now back to square one

With the weekend fast approaching, I'm dreading this weekend (first weekend in a few weeks that we have spent together)

She wen't round her sisters yesterday evening straight from work and came back about 10pm ish (nothing unusual, as she used to do this before she told me there was a problem)
So again, it was just me and my boy and we had loads of fun together! took my mind off everything completely. We played football, read books, watched Barney, and he even helped me to put his clean washing away (well, chuck it in the draw anyway - he's only 19 months!!!)
So he went to bed and I started cleaning and didn't really think much about anything
W then rang me on her way home and asked if I could pop something in the oven for her, which I did, and when she came in, she was really nice to me.
Talking to me like it was old times, slagging her sister & her friends off to me (something she used to do regularly) and we were talking like a H & W again - "Great" I thought!
Even got a few kisses from her and a cuddle before we went to bed..
Then, when we're lying in bed, she exumes the biggest "huff" she could, rolled towards me and says "our life is so f*cked up.......and I still don;t know whether I want you or not"
It felt like i'd been hit by a train!
So, she kisses me and rolls over, only to leave me awake for another couple of hours thinking, crying and eventually falling asleep
We wake up this morning, and she's a little bit stand-offish, but she initiates a few kisses and again, starts talking like a couple again.
But when I want a kiss, she says "oh, I don't know whether I'm ready for all these kisses or not"
WTF????

So again, I drop her off to work, get a big kiss and cuddle off her, and am left wondering all day long what she's going to be like tonight - am I going to be loved or hated?
I'm starting to resent her a bit and I'm now thinking 'I'm not going to kiss her when she wants'. But I don't want to **** things up with her.....

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :confused::confused:

[kyalan]

Hi Billy,

I think the term for us 2 and a few others is "lovefool" or "loveblind" or just plain "stupid f*cking gullible men"

I'm getting really paranoid re: the other man conclusion.
All my friends suggest it, my family are now starting to think it, and I'm looking for the signs, but nothing really.

If there was another man, I can't prove it, which is more frustrating!

I really admire you mate, you've been like this, in limbo, for over a year and I'm getting p*ssed off with it all already.

I really don't know how much more I can take, and in the end I can see myself telling her where to go!!
But can't help thinking that's what she wants?

And yes, it's bloody annoying that the only person she seems to be thinking about at the moment is herself and what she can get out of the situation

:(
Kyalan

[912jws]

Now I know, or I like to think I know,that once my wife crosses the line that is it for me and her. Like you I'm not f***ing having "oh i've tested the water and it appears I was mistaken I will have you back now".

I take a grim solace in the thought that she is in for a shock realisation of what she is throwing away, and will get hurt by men that don't give a toss. I know she will realise this in the end, but when she does I will not be there for her as I always loyally have been. You can only take so much hurt. I think I'm starting to shut down on her.




Billy/chaps,

That is exactly my thoughts at the moment and I don't think she realises this either, I tried to put that across a few weeks back in a 'pour my heart out' email about making the right decisions/how i feel, and that is my biggest fear, letting go and then it's too late from my perspective to want to turn back, and this is without anyone else in my life to make me happy which is showing how I feel towards her at the moment.

I think kyalan you need to shutdown and stop responding to waht she wants as she is taking your feelings for a ride, I don't whether she is doing this so you get so fcuked off and tell her its over as she doesn't want to be the bad person?

As we have all said, we are all nice guys and they take us for a ride, we are there in the background, do a lot for our kids and they have life easy at the moment as they don't have to deal with half of the emotional turmoil we are going through! And that's without possibly having guys make them feel special(for a limited amount of time before the penny drops!)

It's funny last week when my wife came home drunk and started dictating 'you need to get a car straight away', 'don't want you having keys to house etc', well I bought an old banger and I hadn't spoke to her since then even though I sent a an email saying when I will be having kids, anyway I get a text on Weds eve saying still ok to pick kids up and do I need use of a car :rolleyes: so I promptly replied no I have a car thanks, even though it stretched me this month it feels good to have some control!

Keep writing chaps.

Jon

[Raymond]

If any of your wives are like Kayalan's wife I cannot believe the cruelty you are experiencing. To say to your husband in bed after kissing him, I still don't know if I want you or not speaks of incredible insensitivity in my book. This to a fantastic father of her child from what I can see. You are surely better off in letting her play the field and waving goodbye rather than languishing in this prison. Adultery is bad enough but to be toying with it in your face shows incedible disrespect.

Is there another man? We don't know yet. The signs are there. Other than that there is this rediculous drive to have the single life, probably influenced by her friends, but when she wants a break or a bit of stability she can come back to old faithful. She shouldn't be allowed to live like this. The whole thing undermines you as a person. You either have a marriage or you don't. Some tough thinking is called for.

Raymond

[912jws]

I guess that's one area where I have to be thankful, my wife basically just shut off her intamcy/feelings switch so I knew where I stood.
Still didn't make things from my perspective any easier to deal with, going from something to nothing in what felt like a few days even though it was probably weeks.

[Raymond]

I suppose you have time to work out what is going wrong if she is still with you.

Raymond

[kyalan]

well, I think she's finally made her mind up

she says that even if she is single, living in a one bed flat, in the scummiest dirtiest part of the city, and not having any money, spending her weekends and evenings alone - this is better than any life with me!

Now that hurt but at least now I know which way to go - i've got my things and am now at work writing this, where I will probably stay tonight and for the forseeable future

But wot still grips my sh1t is that she STILL cannot tell me why it's so bad to be with me.
All she says is that we argue and she can't be bothered with me always answering her back - WTF??? That's not a reason to throw 8 years away??
So my mind goes wandering back to the 3rd party conclusion....there's nothing else it could be?
She has not got a valid reason as to why i'm so unbearable?
One minute she's telling me how wonderful a father I am and how I can be the perfect husband, then she knocks me flat by saying "but I don;t want to be with you"
Last night I was up til 4am crying my eyes out, but still got up with my son at 5:30!!! I could have let her do it, but instead I took him downstairs and gave him his bottle and his breakfast.
I also looked for her phone last night, and I mean everywhere! In her clothes pockets, in drawers, cupboards, everywhere! the only place I couldn't check was under her pillow - which it could have been?
She got a text shortly after 1am (she's got a stupid message alert, so I knew it was her phone and not mine), and I even heard her tapping the keys replying to it (her phones that old that it makes a distinctive "clack" when you press any key), but when I asked who text her this morning, she says "what are you talking about, my phone was downstairs all night in my handbag"
Now I never told her i'd been looking for it, but I had already checked her bag for her phone and I can 100% gaurantee it wasn't in there!
I checked all 4 handbags that were downstairs and it wasn't in any of them.
All I found were details of flats that she'd been planning on going to see last week! Whether she's been to see them or not, I don't know

There's got to be a 3rd party - no question in my mind now

So I will go my own seperate way and I rang my mum today to say I was coming home.
My mum cried her eyes out and wants to come stay with me til it's all sorted as she feels I am bullied by the wifes family

Oh well, I tried and failed miserably

Kyalan :(

[val100]

Kyalan,

Hate to tell you but your wife is having an affair.(ok I don't really know but)
I was writing you a very long and detailed response when I had to shut it down I am at work.
The pulling and pushing that your wife has been doing is exactly as I did (I wasn't as cruel)
I had an affair. My marriage needed to end for a number of reasons but I couldn't do it.I loved my Husband with all my heart still do but he was ruining me. he broke my spirit and neglected me yet he adored me too.
My problem with him was I knew I was being destroyed but my love for him was so overwhelming I couldn't leave. There was verbal and physical violence, name calling and hurtful remarks.
I was ruined and when this other person came into my life I just seemed to not care anymore, I think for me it was the only way I knew it would end because he doesn't do forgiveness.

Your situation is different you weren't abusive yet you are the one being abused. I like you loved making my family happy it gave me a sense of satisfaction.
I gave him everything and he took and kept taking just as your W does. You have allowed her to treat you in this manner.
There is no law that will stop you from seeing your son so put that to the back of your mind.

Let your wife go it isn't going to be easy (i have moments most days where I ache for him)
Love isn't enough to make a marriage work and like me you have to realise that Loving someone shouldn't mean hurting you.
I loved him with all my heart but by doing so I was hurting myself.

I wish this was different for you but it isn't. I guarantee you will have the phonecall asking you back, up to you whether you go back or whether you stop this abuse.
You have been bullied by her and her family, No one is allowed to do that.
Keep talking, you will survive this and you will be happy if you let yourself.

You have grown up with this person and therefore it makes it so much more difficult to walk away from.

[Lanzo]

Kyalan,
Hate to tell you but your wife is having an affair.(ok I don't really know but)

Or she’s in that awful phase leading up to an affair. The fantasy she's moving to may fizzle out or she may dive head long into the affair if she pushes you hard enough to give her the excuse she’s looking for. That’s why you’re currently getting the anger, the arguments, the inconsistent behaviour she’s showing you.

What can you do about it ? Not a great deal for now. Begging, pleading reasoning coercing, threatening, all of these things will push her further from you. What you need to remember that an affair takes the person off into a fantasy world, which temporally gives them relief from a marriage which they perceive as painful and bad. What you can do is to show her that reality is the much better option. Look after your kid, look after yourself, eat well, sleep well, and start doing things which make you out to be a much better alternative. Try to keep a smile on your face and a positive attitude and Steele your self for a bumpy ride.

Take care


Lanzo

PS: Don't move out of the house, if you W is looking at flats let her find one and be the one to move out.


PPS

Oh well, I tried and failed miserably
No you haven't, now will be your time to shine, take care of yourself.

[lonelylass]

Hi Kyalan,

Sounds like an affair or upcoming affair to me to. Val and Lanzo have offered the personal advice, I can't really add to that.

It sounds like you have moved out? Why hasn't she left as she is apparantly so unhappy? It's no good for you to be staying at work, I would strongly advice you go back and try and get her out. Check out some advice as to where you stand with a solicitor with regards the matrimonial home and children.

This must be about you now and to hell with what she wants, I know it'll be hard, but you must make steps to protect your interests.

LoLa x

[kyalan]

Morning

Erm, where do I start?
Decided against staying at work and went home - had chats with W, but still doesn't listen to me - she sits through the conversation and at the end of it, she will repeat something I've already said - when I say I've already spoke about this and that, she goes mental saying I'm lying....
really starting to think she's got a screw loose!
She went out on Saturday at about 5ish and said she would be back for our son's bedtime (7ish) - I managed to keep him busy and playing til nearly 8pm and no sign of her - so i decided I couldn;t keep him awake any longer and he was asking for his bed.
She strolls in at 10pm saying that she's tired and is going to bed and doesn't want a chat, so I said o.k, and let her be.
But, she kept coming downstairs and asking if I was o.k and what was I thinking??
I said "nothing, I just feel numb"
With that, she walked off upstairs and I didn't see her again til the morning
She was really off with me in the morning and was saying that I didn;t care about her anymore - WTF?? And that I mustn't love her as I'm giving her the cold shoulder (I give up)
She went out for the day Sunday, and left me at home, so I cleaned the house from top to bottom and then spoke to my friends back in my home town, and also told my family everything (and I mean EVERYTHING!) Needless to say, they weren't pleased with any of it and they want me to come home.
Just basically chilled for the day, went for a walk to get the Sunday paper, sorted out my garden, and watched a little bit of Top Gear which cheered me up.
So when wife arrived home Sunday evening, I didn;t even wait for her to get my son out of the car, I walked outside, got him out, and took him for a walk - she hated it because she'd thought I'd been moping around all day and waiting for her to come back.
So I went out with him and came back just before his bedtime, and she hated it
She asked me why I was doing this to her and why I didn't want to spend any time with her? Again, this confuses the sh*t out of me!
So now I'm at the point where i've had enough of her mind games, and told her in no uncertain terms that I'm not going to be f*cked around any more and if she doesn't like it, then f*ck off and let her dad buy her a flat.
And something in her eyes told me that something had clicked
I don't know why, but it seemed like she finally understood that we weren't going to be together and what she's going to lose (finally)
She never said a word to me on the way to work and I think something has hit a nerve!
Only thing is, after weeks of this, is it too late for me? I'm resenting her now, but I do still love her
Fingers crossed, she come home, apologise for everything and we'll be fine
But in reality, I think she'll call it a day
Either way, I'm gonna be a man about it and let her have her way
Like everyone keep's telling me, it's her loss!

Will keep you posted tonight/tomorrow as to what happens

A much stronger Kyalan ;)

[moomin]

Hi Kyalan, have just read through your thread and it may sound harsh but a distinct lack of respect stands out. I dont think it sounds like she respects you, or that you respect yourself.

I too got togethe with my H at 17, and we've been togetherfor 9 years now. We are having a lot of issues that we are trying to work through, some of which I think are directly related to getting together so young, and that because of that i dont think you have the same emotional development as people who get together when theyre older.

I think you feel like you NEED your wife. I felt the same. But know as time goes on im getting strength iof how i can manage on my own.

Maybe a time out is needed for you to get your self repect and strength back. If she starts to repsect you more maybe you can get your relationship back on track on a more equal footing. If not maybe you need to think whether you deserve more..

[moomin]

Hi Kyalan, have just read through your thread and it may sound harsh but a distinct lack of respect stands out. I dont think it sounds like she respects you, or that you respect yourself.

I too got together with my H at 17, and we've been together for 9 years now. We are having a lot of issues that we are trying to work through, some of which I think are directly related to getting together so young, and that because of that i dont think you have the same emotional development as people who get together when theyre older.

I think you feel like you NEED your wife. I felt the same. But now as time goes on im getting strength of how i can manage on my own.

Maybe a time out is needed for you to get your self repect and strength back. If she starts to repsect you more maybe you can get your relationship back on track on a more equal footing. If not maybe you need to think whether you deserve more..

[kyalan]

well, it's officially over.
I'm now back at work, crying as I write this, and feeling like a complete fool.
I went home and we talked and she said she thinks there's a better life out there for her, so I said it was over and that I wasn't going to hang around while she ummd and ahhhd over what she wanted.
So I calmly went upstairs, packed my bags and left.
She was begging me to stay saying that we could "co-exist if we spent a night at home with our son each and if I slept in the other room"
I just looked at her and walked out - simple as.
So where do I go from here?
f*ck knows, but this f*cking hurts like mad and I feel like the scum of the earth

Kyalan

[Lanzo]

Kyalan,

No rational decisions can be taken when they are fuelled by emotion and drama. No decision should be taken unless you have a plan.

If you need a couple of days out to clear your head then take them but stay in contact with you W and kid. If after a couple of days you still feel like ending it then ok, but if you feel like you still want your marriage them move back home, don't wait.

You've just stepped out of the house now and you wife will feel abandoned, so guess what she'll dive in to that affair which we suspect may happen.

To me you were showing signs of taking control of you situation but you let the crazy talk from your wife force you to make an irrational decision. Listen to what Billyboy says ignore all that stuff she comes out with cos it will make no sense to you.

My strong advice would be for you to get back home, remember I said you were showing signs of taking control.

Keep posting and let us know how you are.

Lanzo

[kyalan]

Hi Lanzo,

W rang me yesterday begging me to come home as she didn;t want me sleeping in a warehouse. So I went home late last night
We talked for a bit, and she's 100% certain that she doesn't want me in her life
She said she doesn't want to have to answer to anybody....?
And she feels she is the kind of person who rubs everybody up the wrong way (o.k, she is, but I still love her)
She keeps putting it back on me saying "you'll find another woman in no time" and "you'd be happier with someone else"
Truth is, she has shattered my confidence that much that I can't look at myself in the mirror at the moment.
I'm struggling, I really am.
She says the biggest thing for her is she can;t see us having any more kids together because she thinks I'll leave her and she'll be stuck with 2 kids and I can walk away like nothing happened.
She also thinks that because of the way she's treated me, that things are beyond repair. I keep telling her we can fix things if she helps me.
She's even admitting she's treated me badly over the 8 years - so why am I such a mug by wanting her so much?
I know I don't need her. I know I can be without her. I just don't want to be without her
She doesn't think I seriously love her enough to want her for the rest of my life.
I don't know what else I can do to show how much I love her?
I asked her if I didn't love her, then why would I fight so f*cking hard to save our relationship - her answer - "it's all one big act" ????
Then give me a f*cking oscar because I deserve it!

Kyalan

[val100]

Kyalan,
Get your plan together and walk away. You don't have to walk away for good but you definitely do for now. Take the spare room till you get somewhere else. All that is happening now is huge confused signals, arguing and more hurtful words.
Please mind your health, pleae mind your son, gather your friends and family around you and if you really don't want this marriage to end then don't say or do anything that will cause morepain for both of you. Space from each other is what is needed.

[kyalan]

cheers for the oscar! lol :p
I always go on this forum on my work P.C or on my PDA, so she wouldn't ever find out.
Plus she doesn't even know the name Kyalan (it's actually my gamer tag online) and she never paid any attention to it anyway
I've told her to go to her mums if she's 100% certain it's over - no response yet
Although she rang me earlier and said would I pick her up or meet her at home - meet you at home of course :D
I'm not going to do her any favours, and I'm keeping well out of it.
If this is what she wants, then maybe I am happier with someone else?
I know I say this now, and I think I'll be fine, then when I'm around her, I turn into goo! I just can't help it.
It would be easier if I went away for a couple of weeks - but 1, I haven't got the money to, and 2, I'd do nothing but think about her and my son all the time.....
Various friends have told me stories about their lives (whether they're true or whether they made them up to make me feel better - I just don't know)
But the biggest thing seems to be the partner wanting something else and then realising when it's too late what they've lost (if that makes any sense)
And I just hope my W doesn't realise too late

Kyalan

[kyalan]

I think my W will realise once I've moved back home 200 miles away, and by that time it will be way too late

She even says that she'd miss me like crazy if I go.....

But like I keep telling her, I hope she realises what she's going to lose.

And like you billy, I hope it hurts her and I hope she regrets it for the rest of her life.

I just hope that I can fall out of love with her sooner rather than later and I keep thinking of all her bad points (hopefully, I'll come to my senses)

All joking aside, I think I'm gonna move to Hollywood and be an actor - might even take my Oscar with me :D

[kyalan]

the cheeky bitch
she just text me saying - "can you ring my driving instructor and tell him I can't make the lesson tonight"
(He tought me how to drive 5 years ago and I play golf with him every now and again, so he's got my number)
So I text back saying "John's number is blah blah blah"
And she hasn't replied yet :D

[lonelylass]

Kyalan,

Well done, keep up that response. She was maybe waiting for you to ask her why!!

As I said before, get her out if you can, she is the antagoniser, not you.
Look after yourself and let the selfish mare continue to look after herself, it appears to me that is all she is capable of.

Chin Up,

LoLa x

[val100]

Lola you are right but god you are a tough nut.

You rock.
Kyalan, You don't do anything unless it is important to your child or her and only for her if it has good reason and merit.
H and I do still do favours for each other but that is us building bridges and because we need to be friends for our childrens sake. However it is only picking up things from the shop or getting me something I need from a place in the city as he knows I can't as I have moved away. WE never make phonecalls for each other or cross lines. She hasn't let go, she is testing you, she needs you to remain in love with her as then she will have a safe place to land when she has done her bit of living and may realise it ain't all it is cracked up to be .
You did the right thing well done

[kyalan]

quick update

made her get the bus to and from work (she's gonna have to when I'm not living round here) - which she wasn't best pleased about
I went home last night and was the perfect gentleman
She went on her driving lesson, came back and asked if I had anything to say to her - I said "yes, what do you want for tea" ;)
She looked a bit shocked and asked "why on earth I would want to make her anything to eat"
But I made her some tea and also made her a drink
I went about my business, having a bath, getting my stuff ready for the morning, put my boy to bed and read him a story - (just like to point out that he will not go to bed for my W and also will not read books with my W - he always asks for me and she hates it!!)
I also won't let her see me naked anymore - I haven't got the confidence and also if we're not going to be married for much longer then why should I?
However, she was upset that I wouldn't sleep in the master bed with her?!?!?
And she said that she was expecting me to start arguing and bring everything up - but I'm past that
I'm past the argument stages, I have accepted her decision (as much as I hate it) and I am trying to move on
Our house can be on the market as soon as next friday and I told her this - she's not happy and says I'm being "too hasty"
but like she said - she's 100% certain it's over, so why would I want to wait around?
I've got 3 interviews next week in my home town, so going to take a few days out down there and fingers crossed I can secure a job
She said she's going to see the doctor on Monday because she might be depressed or have PND (I've been saying this for nearly 18 months)
SHE was the one who wanted this - not me - and I have been waiting round for weeks for her to change her mind and she's left me in limbo - so I don't see why I shouldn't want to get everything sorted asap?

Her loss, everyone elses gain I suppose

Kyalan:)

P.S, I lied, that wasn't really a "quick" update was it?:D

[val100]

Slow down,
You actually don't need to do anything fast except put yourself first.
Are you going to take your son with you????
Do you want to live that far away, Do you want to walk away. Why can't you guys seperate for a bit without putting the lid on the coffin. As soon as my H withdrew his love I realised what I really wanted but he had found someone else and found his freedom. I lost (or so I had thought in truth I am better off but hate it, and yes he is playing with my heart strings "confused" update isn't going to happen i have decided to just ignore his texts)

You see you two are caught up in this tornado and it is all a mess, get some time out, get some perspective.
She has had all the power up until now and she has treated you like a crap but maybe there is hope you two haven't really tried anything (i know she won't try) maybe after some time out you could start counselling????

Stay strong

[kyalan]

Hi,

She won't let me take my son with me - i'll keep coming back to see him and won't cut him out of my life
Yes I do want to move back home - I have no life up here anymore and I know my son is a good reason to stay, but I have no friends, no family, and i'd literally be coming to work, going home and being alone every night.
At least I would have my friends and family around me.
There's no way of taking a time out because I can't go and stay with my parents (can't get time off work) and I have no friends around here
but she won't go to her mums either?
I've suggested counselling - met with a stern "NO"
I've suggested her moving out - again "NO"
I've suggested me staying at work for a few weeks - not ideal, but I'm willing to do it - again, she said "NO"
She likes to have the power and now she isn't in control of the situation, she does not like it one bit!!

Kyalan

[val100]

Nothing stopping you taking your son.You have the law on both your sides,she is the one who wants the marriage over, she is breaking up the family.

I believe a child should be with their mother but you have made it sound like you are the childs main caretaker and therefore why sould he lose out to her selfishness.

I maybe wrong but that is what you have made it sound like. there is nothing stoping you from taking him, I would be reluctant to leave the family home as the law does frown upon that. You should talk to a solicitor first honestly it isn't as black and white as it seems plus something tells me your W hasn't had her ounce of flesh yet.

[kyalan]

I am our sons main caretaker, and even her parents said that! (and trust me, they f*cking hate me)

I need to get out of there and fast - she's making me ill and I have already lost 2 stone in 6 weeks!!

I can't eat, sleep, all I keep thinking about is the whole situation

Spoke to solicitors legal team - they recommend me staying, but said the courts will understand that she was reluctant to leave and therefore had to do it for the sake of my health

The equity in the house will get split 50/50 - and also custody of son may get split 50/50 if I stay living locally - but if I move, then she will more than likely get full custody unless I can give the court a good reason why she shouldn't - hmmm.....how about she hangs around with two drug taking friends?
Even the guy at my solicitors said that men are always the less fortunate party when it comes to a split/divorce
Either way, she's got me by the balls.
(Not literally - would welcome some kind of contact)
W has told me that if I even think about filing for full custody, then she will make stuff up about me to ensure I don't get full custody! And she even says her parents will back her stories up???!?!?!?
Seriously, you would not believe how much she wants everything her own way. - She is such a spoilt brat at times!!!

She can be a nasty person when she doesn't get her own way.

Kyalan

[val100]

go with the drug taking friends and you don't want full custody just your home to be the childs primary home.

In Ireland the courts are changing. You are not by the balls yet. get her to leave. ultimatum time.
My god why does she have everything.
Of course you can go home set up a home for you and your son and then just take him back.
How do I know this? My H.

She sounds alittle unstable to be honest and her family very posionous and dangerous. Can't say I have any sympathy for her what is it you love about her?
Any person who cannot seperate their family from their new family needs a kick up the arse. Why can't they stay away sounds like they love the drama.
Yeah get out of it.

[kyalan]

Can't say I have any sympathy for her what is it you love about her?


I have been asking myself that a lot lately, but for some stupid reason I still do....:confused:

My biggest fear is if I try and take my son, she will play the "oh, he's a psycho" card and she would do everything to make sure I couldn't see him again - like I said, she can be one twisted bitch when she wants to be

Kyalan

[val100]

Kyalan,

The courts will not ever stop you from seeing your son unless you are a danger to him, which if she suggested you were she would need some serious proof.

I really don't believe your son should be away from his mum but something about what you said just doesn't sit right. If you were to stay in where you are then i would say ok but you are 200 miles away. you aren't going to see him as much as you want to and as much as he needs you. You will need alife too so travelling up and down at the weekends will not be good for you. Seeing him once a month willbreak his heart and yours (remember I have 4 kids we live 100 miles from their dad it is so hard on them). He is young and he will adapt bt flip why does he have to suffer for her choices.

Have you ever done anything that she can use against you in the courts.
Keep a diary of where and how often she goes out, note if she comes in drunk anything she says or does in front of your son.
I never had the strength to do that as no matter how bad my H was and he did say and do terrible things infront of our kids he actually is a good dad. I had enough on him to have only supervised visits or enough to get primary custody and be able to take them out of the country with out his permission. I couldn't do it to him or the kids.

I had hurt him enough and i know in time he will sort himself out in the meantime their love for him remains unconditional no more pain or hurt , I just want peace now. If he fights me for custody it will kill me but I will hand them over he is as capable as I am and I won't do the fighting over the kids thing.

I am lucky through all this he still believes I am a fantastic mother so he won't upset the situation, I really thank him for that. When i had my affair I wasn't being the mother or wife my kids deserved I know it wasn't easy for him to leave them with me after I broke up our home.

My kids are happy with me I am unsure how happy your son will be, Is she a good Mum, honestly?

[kyalan]

Is she a good Mum, honestly?

she can be when she wants to be
the same as she can be a good W when she wants to be
and that's the problem - she doesn't want to be a good W

I've never given her a reason to take our son away from me
The only thing is that she still doesn't forgive me for what happened 15 months ago - but she can't see my side of the story at all....

She's being all loving towards me now as she wants me to stay living locally - I just can't, I have no friends, no family and I'll be so lonely
I'll also be convenient for her when she wants to go out with her friends - "oh, can you just have him for the night?"
I can see it now - and she's also already doing it.


:(Kyalan

[val100]

Well firstly fathers don't babysit they parent just as mothers do and as with my h he had that same stumbling block.
1. anytime with your son is precious time irrelevant of why you have him ie she is going out.
2. If you move out and agree to take your child just at the weekends then you have 5 nights to go spread your wild oats, so if any mother askes for an extra night why be anoyed?

This is a point where you must realise revenge or being ackward gets you nowhere.
You have to box your hurt as much as possible when dealing with your wife because honestly it makes things so miserable and ackward.

My H is the most vengeful person, it just comes naturally to him he told me a few weeks ago that after he hurts me which he says he can't seem to stop once he starts he hates himself he hears me sobing and it kills him he then has to try and find himself under the bastard that has just risen up and he realises all he has done is put me back into my hurt and made his even bigger.
You don't want this for you. Make this clean and dignified for yourself, ignore her she wil have her pound of flesh but honestly the power you will gain by not lowering yoursef to her standards of behaviour.

I believe firmly that you shouldn't move away but I understand why you are. You will be able to socialise and make friends if you stay try it for a year maybe wit limited contact with W.
I know inevietably you will do what ever you feel is right for you and we will all support that decision however I would suggest that you really weigh it all up and don't do anything immediately.
Loneliness will stay with you no matter where you are and it will take a while to get used to but you know after a while you will start to enjoy your own company.
You are still very young you will have a fantastic life, look at all of us here we have all survived this even though we really didn't think we would.
Happiness is just around the next corner.

[val100]

Billy WHAT is going on in that house of yours???
Who are you married to?

We aren't all bitches guys. I have handed in my notice to the best job I have ever had, Health benefits, pension, promotions and good wages plus I loved it. So I can see my kids at the weekends. I know this will hurt my
H as it will mean he will only get to see them twice a month but honestly he can visit anytime (bet he blody wishes he had learnt to drive now) I need to have quality time with my gang I hate that all I get to do is get them out the door for school, dinner and bed we never have time for cinema, swimming, walks or just pj day (we used to have pj day, excuse for H and I when we were tired to just lounge with the kids nasty food and dvds, kids thought it was cool H and I got a well deserved break).
I don't want to hurt him but I need my time with them too.

Stupid stupid women who think that passing their kids over at the weekends is fantastic, it is lonely as hell and dads get allthe cool stuff to do mum becomes a nag and is no fun.

Guys trust me they will hit the floor with a thud when you leave.

[kyalan]

I hope she falls flat on her face I really do

She has really hurt me and she knows she has

Trust me, I do not want to be a weekend dad and I would love to stay round here - and I know i'll be lonely down south, but my friends will be there for me. And at this time I really need my friends

I just don't know what's for the best
If she turned round and said she'd made a mistake before I leave, then I'd jump at the chance to stay with her - I love her to bits!

Kyalan

P.S, Billy, just by some things you say, I would say you don't live too far from me!!
Your definately a northerner mate! :D

[kyalan]

Also, I just want to say I'm not a woman hater either


Kyalan

P.S, What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes? - Nothing, you've told her twice :D



Only kidding! I wouldn't dream of it!

[val100]

I know the hurt is awful, I hurt too and I hate myself for hurting My H the way I did because he did truly love me and he didn't deserve what I did to him. I wish I had asked others for help, I just didn't know how to tell people what was going on. God I really loved him too but it was becoming to much and as I said before loving him shouldn't hurt me.
Wish I had found this site last year.

I hate reading what ye write at times because I see into his heart and it kills me. I wish I believed he realises how bad I feel. I don't feel sorry for myself for my life it does scare me at times and I am tired but I hurt for him. I deal with what he did to me as best I can.

Kyalan becareful here, You have no right to make her feel anything life isn't easier on your own with a child take solace from that she will be exhausted

The partying will get boring, the men will find her selfish and dull.
I find the men I meet think more of me when I tell them that my kids are my priority. Always hear the same thing from them, my honesty is refreshing and I am a great mum.
Trust me most good men can't stand women who find their kids an inconvienence. She will be lonely for a long time.

[val100]

Kyalan,
Domestic violence played a part in my marriage, I may find that funny in time.

[val100]

HA !!!!

just wanted you to feel guilty.

It did but hey if we can't laugh at the crap in our lives then whats the point?

[kyalan]

Val, you sound like a lovely woman and fantastic mother :p

Billy, I'm guessing Yorkshire maybe? :D

Kyalan

[val100]

shucks I blush

Thank you guy s

Yeap what you see is half what you get the other half you get in the dark and its aaaallllllllll Goooooood !!!!!!

Giggle

[kyalan]

Wow!

Even I'm blushing now.....

One way to describe you Val......little minx ;)

Kyalan

[val100]

Ah nah it is thursday morning it is cold and I am at work and you are the only guys around to flirt with,

I am a dog, I howl at the moon.

Or do I?????????

[kyalan]

I think some pictures are called for?

What you reckon Billy?

;)

[val100]

now boys that isn't what I am about some photos Tut

please be specific of what pose you need.

Actually I take the worst photo, really bad.
Apart from my modelling ones (ha now you are interested) and I was only 18/19 then so they are no good plus I don't have them.

Sorry lads you will just have to see me in the flesh.

See it won't be long before you guys are over your wives.


You know i am joking.

[kyalan]

snap!
I did some modelling for a clothing range when I was 17 - worst thing I ever did! the photo's are bloody awful and that was only 7 years ago!!

I wish it were that simple to forget about my Wife - I really do

Kyalan

[val100]

You know I was joking about you forgetting your wife.
It will take time but you will find life goes on and oneday you just realise wow I am content.

I will always love my H I accept that now and am ok with it, even starting to accept I may never love again (going to try though).
At least you aren't old with no hope, only 24 no offence but you are so young you will have a fantastic life.

The package is what makes us beautiful not our features, so just remember that you are beautiful

[kyalan]

now your just quoting lines from a Christina Aguilera song :eek:

I hope your right Val, I really bloody do!!

[val100]

Now you insult me as I have much better musical taste than that hussy.
I mean it we are initially attracted to how someone looks but honestly it is the way I am treated and HOW HE TREATS OTHERS that does it for me.

Cannot put into words how fantastic looking my H is, still makes me weak but he wasn't the kindest of people and my god when he was I found him irresistable honestly.

If I can survive losing him anybody can recover. For all the awful things he has done to me he is still my H I dread the day that ends. He does horrible cruel things and I am repulsed by him but after a few days I fall into the forgiveness mode again.

My friends and family can't understand how I can even speak to him. I loved him, I loved the good in him sadly the bad ruined me.

You are in the throws of this and my god I never want to feel that pain again but as always the sun comes up again tomorrow this is your path hun and you have only one choice you have got to walk down it (my own line RIGHT smart arse). The alternative is not on the cards for you your son needs you.

The world is at your feet now you just can't feel it.

You are on the right site these people are fantastic and I swear they have pulled me through they will do the same for you.
Keep talking and I am sorry 24 is way to young for me to be flirting with I feel dirty now
Giggle, I like

[kyalan]

Maybe in time I will forgive her, but it'll be a bloody long time

I know it's going to hit me like a ton of bricks when I move out, but what can I do.....

I just wish she'd realise the love I have for her!
I have so much love to give her

Kyalan

P.S, Val, you've got to stop quoting these cheesy song lyrics and movie quotes - next you'll be saying "My Mama always said, 'Life was like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gonna get." :D

[val100]

Feck off
I only quote me because I am never wrong.

Forgiveness is the only answer to moving on too soon yet but bare it in mind.

Must go boss due in and I must pretend to look like I am working

[kyalan]

you sound like my W - she's never wrong either!

Little update anyway - going away for weekend with my son - W not happy at all
She's also not happy that I have an interview tonight!!
She now says she is only 60% towards leaving me - my W likes to give percentages for some reason?!?
So I just hope she feels lonely this weekend and realises what she is going to be losing

Will update over the weekend or Monday but I feel like a weight is off my shoulders

I have accepted the fact that she may not want me, but I have also said I still feel strongly enough about her to work at things if she wants to

The ball is firmly in her court and am looking forward to the weekend - poker night tonight with my mates, spending the day at a kids theme park with my son tomorrow and then spending Sunday with some friends and their children - can't wait!!!

Take care

Kyalan:D

P.S, Only thing I don't enjoy if the 3 hr drive down south! Stupid roadworks!!!

[912jws]

Guys trust me they will hit the floor with a thud when you leave.

I do hope that is true Val.

I have been wondering why my wife is getting funny about child support via her solicitors even though in jan she said she wanted no money and i said I will pay £300 which she accepted this, now she's going for the 20% which I can't afford at present. So even though she has destroyed me emotionally in the last few months she is now trying to do the same finacially, my best friend reckons that this single life that she wanted is not cracking up to what she expected so yes she may have highs and lows and it when she has the lows the only person she can take things out on is me? does that make sense? So she can't blame herself so she has to blame me :(

[kyalan]

makes perfect sense to me - I'm trying to make my wife realise how hard the single life is

I have read through countless threads online, spoke to a few people and the only time someone has ever been happy leading a single life is when they've had a really bad time (and by bad time I mean they were getting beaten, abused physically and mentally) and they just decided enough was enough. Not one has said "Oh I left a good home and now I'm happy"
There's thousands of 'regret' stories to hear/read

My W seems to think that if she's gives everything up, then her life will be "hassle free"
She has more than a helping hand in me and has everything she wants in life......
the only thing she can't do whilst with me is sleep around?

She has a completely warped view of how life will be and she thinks everything will be o.k and we can remain friends.....can we bollox!

I keep telling her she's making a big mistake and so has one of her friends - incidentally, she's now fallen out with this friend!!!

She spent this weekend alone and said she hated it - what does that tell you?

When all the smoke clears and she settles down to her single life, and her friends get new boyfriends (which 1 already has and has dropped her like a stone) maybe she will realise that I could have been there for her and she made the biggest mistake of her life - but until then, there's no getting through to her

And now she's cancelled going to the doctors today because her mum told her she was a "silly girl for even considering you have something wrong with you!"

Her mum and dad call her "little girl" and she's 25 for f*ck sake!!!!!

Kyalan

[val100]

Kyalan, do you think your wife just needs to work this out of her system? we are all human, why not let her experience life on her own.

It is hard she is very young and human nature being what it is she maybe feeling trapped into this settled life. That doesn't make her a bad person it makes her quite normal.

I am happier without my H. I miss him, I miss the stability of married life and the shared dreams but I love not having his crap anymore. I actually am so content. The things I miss I will have againand can survive at the moment without.
I have days when I think I never want to give this up. Then again my life was ****e

[kyalan]

Hi Val,

I've said she can go and experience the single life - just don't expect me to be here when she finds out it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Yeah it's human nature to sometimes feel trapped, and it doesn't make her a bad person to want to get out - what does make her a bad person however is the punching, kicking, name calling, twisted games she plays when she doesn't get her own way

She cannot give me 1 single thing that makes her life sh*t - yet she keeps saying "My life is sh*t" "My life is sh*t!"

I ask her why, and she says "because it is" - she can't even give me a straight answer

She genuinely believe's there's a better life out there for her, because of the picture her friends and relatives paint for her

I suppose you could say she just wants more all the time, and in order to get more, she feels she needs to take a few steps back

But what happens when she takes a step back and can't find a way forward again? She will regret it

If I was a b*stard to her, never helped out, was lazy, spent her money, hit her etc., I could understand why she wouldn't want me anymore

But she keeps telling me I haven't done anything wrong, and it's "just something she needs to do" and "i'll understand in the long run"

WTF is that all about???

Kyalan

[val100]

Kyalan, She is not allowed to kick hit etc just as much as you aren't.
Never an excuse for violence.

I don't know your wife and I am sorry for making a presumption but you might actually have a beter life without her.

I know that there are plenty of women out there (pick me pick me) that want nothing more than a god man that wants to look after their wives and family.

I know I would have settled for just being looked after.
It is funny I have a book of abuse neglect and violence at this stage and yet i feel disloyal saying it because I know he didn't mean it and I hated it, but I would have stayed put if he had just looked after me, if he had made me feel safe.

My H adored me, I mean that his love was in a sense suffocating because he lived in that bubble oflove and put me on a pedastil, Best way I can describe it was that I was in a glass box like a collectable item and I was looked at once in a while and talked about constantly.

he was fantastic in some areas and as long as I didn't argue with him we were grand. He was cruel and uncharitable towards others he is a strict vegetarian but has no love or affection for our pets in fact I told him if he didn't stop treating my cat with such disrespect and lack of gentleness I would trash his G4 because the cat was as important to me as his computer was to him. He laughed and the cat remained being hurtled through the air or booted out the door.
Cats rock everytime his art box was open the cat p'd into it.
Sorry I am having a how can you still love this man after saturday afternoon moment.

MY MARRIAGE IS OVER AND I DO NOT WANT IT BACK with all my heart I mean that he burnt his last bridge. I have been punished enough.

Didn't mean to talk about me.

You wife is a spoilt brat who hasn't cut the cord from her mother. 25 is still young but feck it is time to grow up.
You were an idiot (nicest possible way ) you enabled her to be a premadonna a princess in her castle a madame.

Women lose respect very quickly for soft men who never challenge them who never put limitations on them. We all need boundaries

[SadBill]

Women lose respect very quickly for soft men who never challenge them who never put limitations on them. We all need boundaries

Oh my God, that has to be the worst thing I have seen in here...
Relationships are built from trust, not from boundries set by husbands or wives. Each person knows whats acceptible or not as the case may be. You obviously have broken that trust and need some sort of brutish husband that will constrain you and never compromise.

I feel your statement is the same as us men saying that we will hump anything that isnt nailed down as thats our nature. Shame on you Val, I'm sorry, but just because you have had an affair and your moral code isnt up to scratch, doesnt mean that anyone else must follow your creed.
I really dont mean to judge you but thats terrible.
God bless,
Bill

[val100]

Did you understand what I meant?


I don't mean to judge you, but I am going to any way LOL. Shame on me??? Why for having my view my opinion
My opinion is no law it is my opinion.

There is nothing obvious about me needing a brutish Husband actually that is the only thing that you say that I have the need to say shame on you.
I gave my husband my whole life I dedicated myself to his happiness all I asked for was to be treated as well as I treated him. I never asked for anything that he couldn't afford to give. His issues and his abuse where a part of his make up that I didn't see as I was besotted, devoted and too young.
I admire you that you can be so self righteous on my life and my situation with in a matter of seconds of reading one post or more.
NOBODY no matter what they have done deserved what I got.

Why did your wife have an affair?????


When men let women walk all over them then they lose respect for that man. It is a stupid part of human nature. Never heard the saying treat them mean keep them keen, why do women go for the bad boys? And of course we are generalising here.

Everybody has free choice. I am not talking about men telling wives to wear certain clothes etc
Relationships are built on respect and trust and kindness and NO not everybody knows what is accepatable. What is acceptable for one person may not be for another. If life was so black and white things would be perfect.

I do not believe that men will hump anything that isn't nailed down as I believe we all have choices and we are individuals at the end of the day.

I don't know if you have read all kyalan thread but his wife treats him with complete disrespect where are her boundaries ??

My moral code is impressively up to scratch thank you I have paid dearly for my affair whether you judge me or not is not for me to take on board. If I was proud of myself I wouldn't be posting on this I would be kicking up my heals humping everything that wasn't nailed down.
I do not have a problem with you disagreeing with me but I feel you didn't hear me properly.

[kyalan]

Hi Val,

Keep talking about yourself - it's good to hear other people experience's and feelings

Like Bill, I don't agree with the boundaries thing, but I kind of see what your saying

I am partly to blame for my wife's strops and childishness
She does act like a spolit brat

I do think that sometimes I would be better on my own, but I still love her to bits.

My wife loves to push the limits of our relationship as far as she can....

Kyalan

[val100]

Sorry sadbill I just felt that you didn't get what I am trying to say that you cannot help but judge me and to be honest you can do whatever you want as if I don't like it I can just switch of my computer.

You too a piece of my post and suggested that i was saying a relationship is built on limitations and boundaries of course it isn't nobody wants to be controlled.
My limits and boundaries are I will not be disrespected, I will not be made feel scared in my ow home by anybody, I will not be physically hurt or verbally abused again.
I will not be neglected etc.


Kyalan's wife uses him for all she can she is violent and then lies to her family about him making a small area think he is a violent abusive man. She treats him like something that she has walked in.
There are of course two sides to every story, we only have his.
Kyalan need boundaries put down ith his wife that he will not be treaed in such away.

There are threads and threads of my H does this and my W does that. These are where boundaries come to play If a behaviour is ruining a realtionship then a boundary has been crossed.

Children thrive on boundaries within their home and school life (some rebel and that is once again a personality type) WE are no different we like to understand things we like to have clear reasons why we can and cannot do things.
Maybe for some they just are born into automatic undersanding towards can and can'ts.
Religious up bring plays a massive part in this. Especially in past generations.
People question more and push limits constantly in todays society.

I know a litte about what I am talking about as I am not some uneducated hussy hanging out looking for a quick lay.
I am a middle class woman from a very good home (parents very happily married for 43 yrs, grandparents were married 60plus years, I am the only memeber of my extended family seperated)I am highly educated(not that you can tell by my typing skills and spelling).
I am a normal person but I question everything that comes my way I am not a linear thinker I will not be settle for second best as I believe life too short

[SadBill]

You too a piece of my post and suggested that i was saying a relationship is built on limitations and boundaries of course it isn't nobody wants to be controlled.
My limits and boundaries are I will not be disrespected, I will not be made feel scared in my ow home by anybody, I will not be physically hurt or verbally abused again.
I will not be neglected etc.
Okay, that much I can understand.

There are threads and threads of my H does this and my W does that. These are where boundaries come to play If a behaviour is ruining a realtionship then a boundary has been crossed.
The boundry that you crossed was becoming involved, sexually or otherwise with another man. Was he married? Does he have kids? Does his wife know? There are boundries there that if the answer to any of those is yes, then you have disrespected more than your family, and more than any boundries.

Children thrive on boundaries within their home and school life (some rebel and that is once again a personality type) WE are no different we like to understand things we like to have clear reasons why we can and cannot do things.
Maybe for some they just are born into automatic undersanding towards can and can'ts.
What are you saying? that you need to parent each other as a couple? that youre husband needed you to guide him, and he to guide you as to whats acceptable or not? Infidelity is a horrendous, terrible and totally inexcusable crime against your husband or wife.


Religious up bring plays a massive part in this. Especially in past generations.
People question more and push limits constantly in todays society.
So what?
we should abandon our religous views and embrace sleeping around as a way of bucking past trends, leaving established morals behind in persuit of a happier lifestyle?

I am a normal person but I question everything that comes my way I am not a linear thinker I will not be settle for second best as I believe life too short
Normal people do not respond to problems in their life by having illicit affairs. I am sorry, but you are too like my wife in taking the easiest (for her) way out. Devestation is all that she has caused. Selfish, self centred, no control, gratuitous, horrible. those are not normal traits that adult display, they are mean, immature and have dire consequences.

Talk to my children about their mothers selfishness. Ask them two weekends a month about their mothers unhappiness. Or maybe you could define their boundries as to what they deserve.
God bless.
Bill

[kyalan]

We all need boundaries

yeah, and the boundary/limit for me is her going and "enjoying her single life

She treats him like something that she has walked in.

Completely - even mutual friends say she does - and they are more her friends than mine - what does that say??

There are of course two sides to every story, we only have his.

There are indeed and I'd be the first to tell you I'm no angel and I hold my hands up for anything I have done wrong - but this is my whole point to my story and why I think my wife needs help

For example - when she cracked me one in the jaw last month, her reason - because I back chatted her?? I only said "wait one minute, I'm just changing our son's bum"
How the f*ck does that warrant getting a punch in the face??

Kyalan

[Raymond]

Funny this thing about boundaries. My wife makes herself completely subject to me as that is what she believes. She asks if it's okay to do this or that. At first I used to think it strange but it has caused me to take full responsibility and to be the man of the house. It brought something out of me that wasn't there before. She never crosses me on purpose although there are differences of opinion sometimes. She gives me so much power but it is my job to use it for good and to use it wisely to bless her. Sorry to butt in.

Raymond

[Alice Alice]

OK i found it ...the post that is making val look like a so and so



Women lose respect very quickly for soft men who never challenge them who never put limitations on them. We all need boundaries


i'm going to say the same thing and use different words

loving people who always give have the right to get angry with people who are taking advantage of them...it might not be in their nature to get upset but in some cases it justified.

Val is a very loving person i know because i have read her heart felt threads she is genuine and smart:rolleyes:

[Alice Alice]

PS not just upset ,,,,but get real upset,,,grab a table along with a few chairs and throw to the ground.
Honour your anger....(very non violent towards people though)
Its very hard to express your anger if one has been conditioned to not express it

[kyalan]

People, we may have a breakthrough - I use the word 'may' very lightly

W went to the doctor yesterday and as I suspected, she has depression....

He's given her tablets and recommended councelling - first session is 2 weeks yesterday

Now I have a major dilema on my hands - I have interviews down south this week and the house goes on the market this Friday

Do I stick around and wait to see if the tablets help her, or do I get my stuff and go

W doesn't seem to think the tablets will change how she feels about me and apparently, the doctor has blamed everything on me saying I started it 15 months ago - yeah, I think I did, I'm sorry for it, and have apologised from the bottom of my heart for what I did.

W wants me to go now so she can have a better life

???

Kyalan:(

[teacherman]

Hi Kyalan

Its a catch 22 situation. My wife suffered depression a few years ago and was placed on tablets. These did actually help and we continued our happy life for a further 10/12 years.

as to you dilema -

If you go, there is no chance of you seeing if you can ressurect you relationship.

If you stay, she may feel pressured and not have chance to clear her head and find her true feelings.

Sorry to say it mate but you are between a rock and a hard place.
Look at it this way - Unless you are very lucky, the house is not going to sell over night.
You have got to give it time for the counselling and the tablets to kick in.
I am not going to give you false hope and tell you that this will be the end of your problems, because it wont.

Once she starts to get her head clear then you need to be taling to each other to see where your future is going. Be gentle with her, depression hits people in many different ways and the person suffering from it will make every attempt to push against things they dont like.

Time is the big thing here - You have got to give her the time and the space to get back to where she was, She might not, and that is something you will have to deal with when it happens.

Good luck mate, at least this is the start to identifying whats been going on, just hope you have a happy outcome,

Trust me, - not everthing is doom and gloom - There can be happy endings but it takes time and patience.

Tim

[val100]

Hi Raymond nice to hear from you.
I think your wife is a very impressive woman. The way she has chosen in your marriage would not be for me but I would 100% respect it for someone who willingly wants that as your wife does. Well done to you both. You have also highlighted my earlier statement that What one person finds as acceptable another wouldn't.
I am not going to comment on sadbill, we all do what we do for our reasons and My words were of my opinion and I don't expect people to agree with me at all times.
Sadbill I wish you peace and happiness.
I hope your anger and hurt subside soon but I am sure you would rather I said nothing. Therefore I will stay away from anything you write out of respect.

Alice thank you I am a tough cookie and really more frustrated that I couldn't get my opinion clearly stated.
I will try to think of a better word rather than boundaries and limitations.
I will state that I am not putting down religion in any shape or manner I believe to have a belief system is something very precious and worthwhile. I have tried but I can't grasp it. I am very spiritual and I believe that the the main teachings of the catholic church (I am RC) Are all good.
Once again sorry If I upset.
Kyalan I would imagine your wife is depressed but violence is unacceptable and really not the way you want your child to see his parents. What did you do 15 months ago?
I think your heart will lead you trust it. As someone told me trust the silence it wil lead you to were you need to go.
I did and it worked.

[kyalan]

What did you do 15 months ago?

to cut a long story short - she treated me like sh*t (hitting, kicking, scratching, name calling), was threatened with redundency at work, was struggling to cope with changes in my life because of new baby, but was made worse by W not helping out and degrading me all the time - so I left

But I realised I made a massive mistake and asked her to forgive me

Full version is on first page of thread

Kyalan

[val100]

Hey billy where have you been???
Right I did a brief reading, I had read it before and I am still asking what did you do 15 months ago?

No sorry I still don't understand why she doesn't get that she played a role in you leaving the marriage.
I understand that it hurt her but honestly does she acknowledge her violence and lies?

Kyalan you feel guilty for having enough 15 months ago and she uses it as a stick to beat you with. You cannot allow this to carry on.

[kyalan]

she doesn't get that she played a role in you leaving the marriage..

your right, she doesn't accept any responsibility

I understand that it hurt her but honestly does she acknowledge her violence and lies?

yep, she even put it in writing to me (a copy of which is still in my solicitors filing cabinet) where she acknowledged abusing me, physically and mentally - my solicitor said she would produce this in court if she ever needed to.

you feel guilty for having enough 15 months ago

yeah I do, not 1 day passes that I don't regret what happened

I constantly have a headache from all the thinking, and this forum really really helps me

It's like my daily release!! I'm loving you all!

Kyalan

[kyalan]

Did you go to the docs with her ?

No mate, I didn't believe her till she showed me appointment slip for the counseller in 2 weeks and also tablets she was given

If you had moved a few weeks ago out back down south and then she rang you and said a month down the line , "ive been to docs got tablets for depression and arranged councelling ", would you of rushed back ?

Probably, cause I'm a f*cking mug! :confused:

[val100]

Well if you are a F ing mug then you are on the right site as we all are.

LANGUAGE TIMOTHY by the way.

Keep that letter safe Now stop thinking for a bit go to those interviews you have nothing to lose by going.
Time out is needed now because your head is your worst enemy( I should really practice what I preach)
My advice to you is take one day at a time, with that take one issue that is making your head hurt and take time out to talk it through with a friend, yourself or us. We can only offer you our perspective no real answers you have to make your own choices. Not one of us wants to even remember what it feels like to be where you are now but look all of u are still here, laughing and helping each other.

By the way I prefered flirting with you guys this is heavy s*** (joking)

[val100]

in my case, 15 yrs, i am a slow learner

[kyalan]

If only to have been a fly on the wall in the Docs eh ?.

If only mate - she was only in there 10 mins and reckons she told him everything as well as getting her blood pressure, height, weight, dietary requirements all sorted out....in 10 mins?!?!


It seems like she is putting all the blame for all her troubles squarely on your shoulders.

and has been for a long time


I was the pregnancy fully planned and how was she afterwards?

not planned, something she wanted really - thought it would help the relationship and bring us closer together

kerry katona style mother of the year friends antics. lol :D - not sure if I mentioned about Saturday - they dropped her like a stone once they had something better to do, and consequently, my W had a bad, sad, lonely day

REJECTION. How much is too much ?

been thinking about that a lot lately - no intimicy, sex, kisses, cuddles for 8 weeks nearly - already having major confidence/personality issues

Ultimate rejection!!

Kyalan

[SadBill]

Sadbill I wish you peace and happiness.
I hope your anger and hurt subside soon but I am sure you would rather I said nothing. Therefore I will stay away from anything you write out of respect.

Oh damn it!
I typed a long reply to Vall and my PC deleted it.

Val, I am sorry if I prejudged you, who am I to do so. You seem to be wise and learned from your experiences in life, please, do not stop commenting if you feel appropriate on my behalf.

As you have wished for me, I pray that you get the peace and contentment that you, as everyone in here deserves. We are a collective of hurt souls, and can do without any more.
God Bless all of you,
Bill

[Alice Alice]

Good to hear SadBill...i know how you feel...because you have been hurt you protect your self..i have done this before and probably will again.
Its good to have friends who understand and calm my fr-aid feelings on those occations.
Communications can get mixed up where emotion is involved...hey we are all in the same boat.

Val i know you don't get hurt by someones words especially if you don't know them ..i'm a bit that way too but it depends on the day.
You have been a good friend to many on this sight and that's what friends are for so thank you too my dear

Kyalan you think of you for a wee bit through out the day fallow your heart trust in love

[val100]

Thank you sad bill. We are all hurting and I promise if you stay using this forum things will become clearer in your life.

I would like to ask you a question and only answer it if you feel comfortable to do so. Would you have your wife back? Is she still in the relationship?

Kyalan you are feeling hugely rejected and I can only imagine how awful that feeling must be.
I can't help but feel that your W is playing a fantastic game and because you are a decent guy she feels empowered by what she is doing because you won't stand up to her.
Not really sure what advice to give you.
I know I switched off from my H and I found it so hard to be affectionate but I was trying to comprehend, absorb and process his assault on me. I regret so much that I solely concentrated on my hurt and didn't find the space to acknowledge his.
Our marriage counsellor just kept telling me to leave the marriage. I didn't want to but felt in the end I couldn't trust my own instincts and he was becoming frustrated with my emotional shut down and was becoming verbally cruel again.
H and I spoke about that the other day it is so sad that we just weren't mature enough or equiped to understand about each others hurt.
I don't understand your wife I can't help but feel she is runing away from something and needs to justify her actions by blaming everything on you?
Where in this marriage was the happy stuff, what made ye work all these years?
Hope you are ok and coping, breath slowly and accept the waves of hurt and fear that come into your body, don't fight them acknowledge them and know it will pass

[kyalan]

I would like to ask you a question and only answer it if you feel comfortable to do so. Would you have your wife back? Is she still in the relationship?
Yes, I'd have my wife back immediately - but she would have to start working at the relationship and not expecting me to do all the work
She is still in the relationship physically, but her heart and mind are away with the fairies and dreaming of the life her 2 single friends currently have
She will not accept the fact that this lifestyle her friends have won't last


Kyalan you are feeling hugely rejected and I can only imagine how awful that feeling must be.
like you wouldn't believe......I'm feeling massively rejected and I'm having major confidence issues at the mo

I can't help but feel that your W is playing a fantastic game and because you are a decent guy she feels empowered by what she is doing because you won't stand up to her.
Yeah, i'd go with that - I stand up to her, but she will argue with you until she wins/gets her own way and sometimes I think it's not worth arguing over, so I don't bother

Not really sure what advice to give you.
Everyone seems to say the same thing - it's such a hard situation to deal with

I don't understand your wife I can't help but feel she is runing away from something and needs to justify her actions by blaming everything on you?
I think she is running away from the situation instead of sitting down and realising she is part of the problem - she thinks she is completely faultless in all of this

Where in this marriage was the happy stuff, what made ye work all these years? the happy stuff shines through every now and again - and when they are happy times, they are really happy times

I wouldn't say the marriage has been all bad, but when there are lows & highs, they are extreme!

That's my W for you - not happy unless there's a drama going on in our life

Kyalan

[val100]

Ah feck Kyalan who showed you how to use the quote option, Sadbill?

Sorry sadbill I a just being funny as you quoted me ubove, Then again I am quite profound I wouldn't blame anyone for quoting Moi (humble too)

Your marriage is not beyond repair but I don't think your wife at the moment has any real interest in fixing it and you really can't do it without her.
I totally understand the extremes, for me I was either extremely in love and bounced around the place or else I was suicidal.
Then I grew up and I accepted how it was and I had a constant happiness for a few years, I worked out how to diffuse situations before they started, I saw the warning signs and upt my anty of love and affection.
The truth is I never dealt with the things that he did that hurt me and I was the only one who grew up in our marriage.

I really miss those happy times because I swear they were fantastic, sadly the bad stuff started to out weigh the good stuff.

I can understand some of what your wife is saying, it is her cruelty that makes me lose sympathy for her.
Drama follows some of us even when we sit at home. I swear I have stories no one would believe, I am 4 soap opera's roled into one and all I want is a quiet life.
H is playing a blinder if I make it through till monday not on his doorstep begging for another dose of rejection and a couple of kicks into the gut I am cured

[912jws]

Yes, I'd have my wife back immediately - but she would have to start working at the relationship and not expecting me to do all the work
but her heart and mind are away with the fairies and dreaming of the life her 2 single friends currently have
She will not accept the fact that this lifestyle her friends have won't last


I was just saying this to Val on another thread, despite all the emotionial crap I have been put through I would probably take her back but there would have to be loads of changes, mostly on her side.

My wife also thinks there is a single life out there to be had but she fails to forget she is a mum now and that's never going to change so she may think what she has at the moment is what she wants but it will come to an end, she can't continue this lifestyle, take this weekend for instance she is flying to the middle east for the weekend to catch some rays while I take the kids down to a friends caravan on the coast because I am brassic at the mo, what is she trying trying to prove with all of this, I know she can't really afford this and whats the point only having 3 full days away and then 18 hours of flying to go straight to work when your flight lands, is that a break? she doesn't even like intense heat anyway :rolleyes:

I think my wife is like yours in that she's influenced by her single work colleagues and thinks she can be like them, the thing is they don't have kids! It's funny I was thinking clouds and fairies a couple of months back :p

They may learn one day but it may be too late for that and that's the worrying thing :(

[val100]

912jws.

How old is your wife?
What is with her the middle east for a weekend then back to work and back to being a mum, she will be exhausted?
Sorry I am judging but they haven't a clue it will I promise hit them.
I realise when I read your posts that leaving my H was definitely not because I thought the grass was greener and sadly my life is easier and better on my own. I miss him and my marriage but I am me again, I don't feel stressed or unable to cope. I am tired but I work 7 days aweek (4 half days 3 full days) I was only thinking the other night I need to give the kids more happy time with me.
I really get upset that women (and men) get bored within their marriage and rather than fix it they end it. Hey sorry it isn't for me to discuss this.

Guys be the best parent you can to your children and accept that your W make choices that may not make sense to you. Your only concern now is your kids.

Really am sorry fr my rant however I won't delete it.
Have a good day we all seem down today.
The weekend is coming I have a house full of my best friends JURASSIC PARK! life can ony get better I shall dance my weekend away I am 34 tomorrow I supposedly will be peaking soon so hopefully I will find that someone to peak with LOL

[kyalan]

Billyboy - I like your style mate

I may have a slight breakthrough with my W

I bought 2 books on Tuesday - 'Why mars and venus collide' (about how men and women's thoughts and feelings are so different about 1 subject) and have also started reading 'the divorce remedy' which is really really good - I showed my W two pages of this book and she was so amazed by how accurate it was to how she's feeling, she couldn't believe it.

I have the day off tomorrow and have 4 interviews for new jobs in my hometown. Now i've reminded her this is the BIG pivotal point in our lives - it can go 2 ways

1) I get one of the jobs, move, we get divorced and that's that, no more stringing me along, no more games, no more messing about

or

2) (and I quote) "She stops being a f*cking d*ck and starts acting like my wife and the mother of my child, and we start being a family again"

to which she replied "I hope that come Monday, I can have the answer you want me to give you" "I'm feeling better about us now and I think I'll miss you more than ever this weekend"

Last night she gave me 3 kisses and I mean, they were 3 long passionate kisses. (over the course of the evening)

So, I hope she does realise and wants me back - fingers crossed :rolleyes:

Kyalan

P.S, I know we were kind of at this stage a week or so ago, but she seems more positive

P.P.S, yes, this is now the 5th week in a row I have been down South for the weekend and also the 5th weekend in a row that I have taken my son with me and she has had the house to herself back home
And my last little rant is that if she is doing nothing all weekend, why the F*CKING HELL CAN'T SHE CLEAN THE B*STARD HOUSE???????? :mad:

P.P.P.S - Thanks to all that recommended 'the divorce remedy' - it's a cracking book so far

[kyalan]

I know what your saying Billy

I have told her, it's all or nothing - no if's, but's, maybe's - she either commits 100% or I am off

And I look at it as it will be her loss

Kyalan

P.S, I too am like you in terms of the best looking partner she's ever had / will get - not saying I'm gorgeous, but she always seems to attract mingers looking at her previous boyfriends and people who approach her when she's out clubbing with her mates ;)

[912jws]

God boys I am jealous that you are so confident you are gorgeous :D
It's funny I don't think I am an ugly bistard but I joined an online dating agency recently, for what? I guess to build up my self esteem and to try and meet new people, I haven't had much luck tbh, there seem to be a lot of nice girls on there and I know I am a decent guy but I guess perhaps this isn't the place I will meet someone else? I am just keeping my options open while I sort my life out.

Billy - Damn I forgot about the vodka mate :p At the end of the day although i am slightly envious she is going away somewhere exotic I know that she can't afford it, it's not a proper break and she will be knackered by monday and probably sunburnt and I would have had a lovely weekend with the kids on a 1/5 of what she has spent ;)

Kyalan - I do hope your wife comes to her senses, at least you are getting some affection which means she still has some feelings for you, I got a meaningful(i'm sorry hug in bed) during december and that was it :(, that was the last time my wife showed me any real type of feelings/intimacy.

All the best, I'll catch up with you lot after my break down to the coast with the people that mean the most to me at the moment, my kids!

Jon

[val100]

LOL:D

hilarious, The best looking man she will get. I love it.
I have to say I still think my H is unbelievably handsome but I just don't feel that oh my god I am so lucky to have this god on my arm.


My poor H can't say that, I always get the good looking guy:p, even if he is under age lol:eek: Yes I am bragging but I am allowed sick of bbb and tim getting all the self praise.
Read last thread, AHHHHHHHHHHH.

Bbb you are right the sex will not be anything as good. Even the excitement isn't that good.

Nothing compares to making love to your partner, they will see this and worst of all feel this.

Guys for whatever reason they want out it will hit them that it is a meat market out there, there are plenty of snakes in the grass.

I got the best birthday present on Saturday. My brother (only have the one) is 8 years older than me, He was my hero as a child and I hold him in such respect. He apologised to me on Saturday (i didn't deserve the apology). He said he thought I messed up my marriage as I was bored (in their eyes they always saw me as abit wild, my family are very reserved, I am very out going have loads of friends, I do think outside the box I know but I am unbelievably sensible and responsible but they just saw me as their babysister who is a social butterfly. I believe we must push our limits and not always take the safe option thats all).

He said I am so sorry for doubting you, I can't believe that you were the one who was keeping everything together you made H look like such an amazing man, He said he had huge respect for him but now he sees what was really happening and he is so sorry that he wasn't there to help or feel I could tell him the truth. He is so hurt for being angry and that he is so proud of me for walking away and being such a great mum.

Guys I can't tell you how much that meant to me. It is like the icing on the cake, the finally bit of affirmation. My confidence finally restored, Acceptance that I am not all those names My H called me. To be seen as a good person, a good mother to have his respect. Silly isn't it that we don't believe in ourselves enough.
I was right to want better (wrong to have an affair). It is ok for all of us to say No we are not going to be treated like this anymore.

Believe it boys you do deserve better.
Happiness is just around the next corner for everybody;)

[kyalan]

Seriously, you want to check out some of her previous boyfriends - assembled together, they could easily be the cast of "The hills have eyes 3"

Billy, my W also gets attention from people at her work, and like your W's colleagues, they are all absolutely f*cking awful.

She assures me these people don't interest her, and promises me that she wouldn't ever go near them with a bargepole - but that doesn't stop THEM from trying something......

Anyway, went to my interviews on Friday - wasn't really bothered about any of them, as thoughts were constantly on homelife (don't get me wrong, they are good jobs, but got mixed feelings) - and have been offered all 4!!! Sod's law!

Just wish it was under better circumstances
Now I am really really head f*cked as to what do I do next?

Crunch time is upon me

Some light shining through - my W has started to question the single life she has been craving - "what if I'm lonely?" "what if I make a big mistake?" "what if I destroy our sons life?" "what if it's not the best thing to do?" etc., etc.,

This is what I have been telling her for 9 weeks!!!! Grrr.....! :confused:

Kyalan

[lonelylass]

Hi Kyalan,

Some light shining through - my W has started to question the single life she has been craving - "what if I'm lonely?" "what if I make a big mistake?" "what if I destroy our sons life?" "what if it's not the best thing to do?" etc., etc.,

Hasn't she missed something here, ie YOU!! Bloody hell, she needs her ass kicking, still, it's all about her eh? Let her be lonely, let her make a mistake, you be there for your son and don't let her destroy him or you for that matter. Be strong, do what's best for you and your son.

LoLa x

[Alice Alice]

Silly isn't it that we don't believe in ourselves enough.

This has been something i have been thinking about for years ..since 1999
Its so important to give ourselves credit when credit is due and think of ourselves as beautiful individuals
thing is when people put us down we take it out on ourselves thus harming our beauty...its easier said then done to let the water roll off our backs like a duck and not become a sponge and soak in peoples negative words.

I think of it like this ...think your self beautiful for the sake of others so they can receive the best you can offer to get the positive rolling in this world full of emotionally crippled good people.

So its imperative the the human race to receive beauty from each other ...so look in the mirror and see the twinkle in your eye and pass it on





Happiness is just around the next corner for everybody;)

it really is a great way to think

[kyalan]

Morning all

W broke down last night and was crying her eyes out (biggest show of emotion for 9 weeks)

She thinks she is making a big mistake but thinks that her depression is all down to me and that she will feel 10 times better if I leave

So we continue talking

I said "the only way I would refuse to fight for our relationship is if I hated her"
So she said "how can I get you to hate me?"
I said "tell me you've cheated on me, give me his name, dates, times, make it plausable and I'll believe you"
she said "but I can't do that cause I haven't cheated on you - you know i'd be lying"

Now I can see in her eyes that she's telling the truth
I'm not going to make it easier for her by hating her - I think she really is not very well at all, but won't admit it

I have until lunchtime tomorrow to accept / refuse the job offers, so I told her she has to 100% make a decision tonight

We had a good night last night - we slept in the same bed and she fell alseep cuddling me (she hasn't wanted to touch me for 9 weeks! So surely a good sign?)
She woke up this morning and was fine with me, and she went off to work in a reasonably good mood

And I know I thought I was at this point before, but i've gone past the 11th hour, and as of tonight, I think it will be nearer the final seconds

There's good signs coming from her, but it's whether she chooses to see them herself......

Kyalan :confused:

[912jws]

LOL:D

Guys I can't tell you how much that meant to me. It is like the icing on the cake, the finally bit of affirmation. My confidence finally restored, Acceptance that I am not all those names My H called me. To be seen as a good person, a good mother to have his respect. Silly isn't it that we don't believe in ourselves enough.
I was right to want better (wrong to have an affair). It is ok for all of us to say No we are not going to be treated like this anymore.

Believe it boys you do deserve better.
Happiness is just around the next corner for everybody;)

Val,

That was a really nice thing for your brother to do and to admit he had thought wrongly of you, I am glad that has given you a much needed boost.

Jon

[912jws]

There's good signs coming from her, but it's whether she chooses to see them herself......

Kyalan :confused:

I truly hope she makes the right decision for all of your sakes and you can get things back on track.

Good Luck

[val100]

Jon
Thank you so much that was very kind of you.

Kyalan, I am reluctant to see the light shining, I do believe your wife isn't well but I am not sure what her agenda is.
I really hope for your sake that you know her well enough to make the right decision for you.
Keep us posted and best of luck.
Jon I hope you are doing ok, I am kinda sensing real loneliness off your posts. Keep talking

[912jws]

Jon

Jon I hope you are doing ok, I am kinda sensing real loneliness off your posts. Keep talking

God do I really give off that vibe :eek:
If I am honest then probably like a lot of people on this forum, yes I am lonely, I like being with someone, sharing things, doing things together, I think it's hardest because of the kids, you can't take the fact away that it hurts when I am doing things alone with the kids like last weekend and I can't do that as a family as my wife is swanning away on luxury breaks!
Also my finances are crap because of our accumulated debts so I have that burden as well :mad:
I am getting there though so don't worry too much ;)
Time is a great healer as we all know!

Jon

[kyalan]

It's finished, over, done with....

I've handed my notice in, accepted another job, and there's no going back

She is moving to her mums tonight and I will be gone in 4 weeks from today

She thinks she is going to miss me like crazy but says she needs to get them feelings back.
If she does then she will follow me down south and we can start a life down there

I have told her to "Get f*cked!!!"

I feel so angry at the minute

[val100]

No kyalan,
I think you are wrong to tell her to get f'd.

She is a mess, she ain't the greatest but here is the thing would you pefer her to stay with you and to carry on treating you badly and to completely stop loving you just have resentment where there was love.

Start your new life, it is up to you to decide whether you will wait in hope or to get right back out there.
If she comes back looking for you it will be on your terms and away from her family, which in my humble opinion would be the best thing.
I totally understand your anger today work through it. You are in for an emotional rollercoaster now so hold tight make a plan and stick to it.
Whatever you do don't stop posting.
Bloody hell that johnny cash song is on the radio, Haven't cried for weeks bugger I had to have a small cry.

[kyalan]

Hi Val,

I need my head to move on, because if I'm still feeling like I love her in 4 weeks then I'm not going to want to leave and it all becomes complicated again

If she does come looking for me then hell yeah, it has to be on my terms!
But I don't know whether I'll be able to forgive her and I really don't think she'll come looking for me
I want to start divorce proceedings asap but she wants to wait 6 months....and here's what she thinks will happen

I move down south, she starts to 'experiment' with the single life - and by that I mean men, clubs, late nights, and knowing her friends do drugs, it wouldn't surprise me if she 'experimented' with drugs aswell

Then when the money runs out, the men aren't interested and her friends haven't got time for her, she will want me back

And that's why I have to move on

I don't want to get back out there, I'm going to stay in my shell a little bit and protect myself and my son

Kyalan

[val100]

Kyalan,
Seems to me they all end up messing with drugs, what sad ***** they are.
I think wait with the divorce there is no hurry.
Get strong and get back out there with your friends, Don't get back out there with women for a while as you just bring your hurt and baggage in to that relationship.
You are so young 25 isn't it? life is truly only begining for you.
I found 25 really hard I questioned what I was doing and where I was going, My H was having a 3.5 yr emotional affair with a fool and I was falling apart. It was a terrible year but I survived as we always do and I am a better person for it.
Stay strong I am sorry, this will hurt

[kyalan]

Feeling really sh*t today

No radio on because everything upsets me
Everytime someone says "are you o.k?" I just burst into tears
W keeps texting me to say how sorry she is, but "this is for the best"

I'm absolutely f*cking desperate for someone to like me & I have no one to give me a reassuring hug and say everythings going to be alright

But I won't see any of my friends for 4 weeks

Kyalan:(

[Alice Alice]

http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/579/579081gumtwy2sum.gif (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/579/579081gumtwy2sum.gif (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)
http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/579/579081gumtwy2sum.gif (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

[kyalan]

Thanks Alice

Helped W move out last night and it killed me

I had a terrible night last night and had about 1 hours sleep.
The house is so eerily quiet and I just sat in silence in the dark for most of it.
I couldn't move, I felt numb and I couldn't stop crying all night

I'm so low at the moment - need help

Kyalan

[SadBill]

Thanks Alice

Helped W move out last night and it killed me

I had a terrible night last night and had about 1 hours sleep.
The house is so eerily quiet and I just sat in silence in the dark for most of it.
I couldn't move, I felt numb and I couldn't stop crying all night

I'm so low at the moment - need help

Kyalan

I too have done that, spent hours bagging her stuff with her to get it out, spent weeks not sleeping, sleeping on her side of the bed, but its done. I still get lows, I nearly called her lastnite when a song from our wedding was on the radio, nearly just to hear her voice. But its done, shes screwed me over and she doesnt want me.
So what do we do? Kyalan, you get up, dust yourself down, get your friends around you and hold them tight. Hold your family tight, and if you need proffesssional help, get it.

You deserve to be happy. You are not going to find happiness in her, because she doesnt want it. Your next move is to look at yourself, and make yourself happy. You sound like a good person, and her actions are not your fault.

[kyalan]

Her line about it being for the best says it all. She obviously has her own daydream agenda going on , see how long that lasts. I keep hoping she'll come to her senses sooner rather than later - but already it's too late for me - I have handed my notice in and taken a much better paid job (I should be happy about earning nearly 10k a year more, but I'm not)

I like you !(for a southerner !)but dont go getting the wrong idea. Im not gonna send you a virtual hug or owt just a distanced manly virtual punch on the shoulder ! :) thanks billy, your not too bad for a northerner I suppose;)

Its early days yet so you can't predict how it will be for you or her. Very true, I'm absolutely f*cking praying she realises what a d*ck she has been and what she's losing.
She is losing so much (both emotionally, physically and materially) and everytime I think about it, I get upset.

I may need some tips once I jump ship too .;) I'm probably the worst person to give advice

I can't help but think I pushed her into making her mind up and it'll all come back and kick me in the ass

She says she "hopes she comes to her senses and sees what's there, but the way she feels at the moment, she can't see it"

And meanwhile, my son doesn't get the benefit of both parents being together, it's either one or the other, and I feel hurt for him aswell

What makes it worse is that she has gone to her mums, is being hugged, looked after, helped, and just plain spoilt - and me?....... I have to go home to en empty house every night and sit and look at blank rooms, the deafening silence of what once was a happy house, and just cry

And I know it's going to get worse and there's not a thing I can do about it

Then comes the day "I've met someone else.....and he will be spending more time with your son than you.....and I'm happier with him......etc.,"

Kyalan:(

[kyalan]

the other thing that bothers me is the fact that one day when my son is older - will he call the other person Daddy?
will he come to stay with me and say "oh it's much better at Mummy's and soandso's house"
"soandso takes me to football practice"
"soandso's such a brilliant person"

you know what kids are like, they don't know any better

[SadBill]

the other thing that bothers me is the fact that one day when my son is older - will he call the other person Daddy?
will he come to stay with me and say "oh it's much better at Mummy's and soandso's house"
"soandso takes me to football practice"
"soandso's such a brilliant person"

you know what kids are like, they don't know any better

Dude, your kid has one father. Be the best father that you can for him. He will always know you as his dad. just because your relationship with his mom has crumbeled doesnt mean that you lose him. Sometimes its so hard to see through the clouds, but you will, infact you must, you owe it to him to do so.

Kyalan, I have never met you, I know little enough about you, but man, you gotta pull yourself together.. grieve, by all means, you have been hurt and lost out, give out, but dont give in, and never give up on your kid.
God bless you, I'm sure that I speak for all of us in saying that you are in our prayers, and that we are rooting for you.
Bill

[kyalan]

Hi Bill,

Your post made me blub like a baby last night mate - thanks to everyone for the support

I had yet another sh*t night last night, but at least I got 4 hrs sleep - which is good for me lately!

Does anyone think I can change her mind?
Or make her realise before it's too late?
Or am I fighting a lost cause?

My thoughts are to write her the best letter I have ever written and to outline all the positives, leave out any negatives and try to state exactly what there is at stake here

I think she really needs help, but she gets annoyed whenever I say it

She told me last night that her dad is buying her a car - £2k!!
She says she's going to be a single mum, so what car does she want to buy - a Ford Puma!! (for anyone who doesn't know, that's a 2 seater, sporty car, with a boot the size of a tesco carrier bag)
WTF??
She see's nothing wrong with this.....???

Other thoughts were to have a chat with her dad. Not an arguement, but a chat and ask for his help and make him understand what he is doing to our relationship?

Or I can just leave her alone and hop that she realises her mistake, but by that time, the damage will have been done and will be beyond repair

I'm so desperate.

I know my love is for her and that it's her I want and not just because of our son and the convenience of a relationship. I have had two women who have clearly stated their interest in me - I'm flattered of course, but it really doesn't interest me. The only person I want is my wife.

Kyalan:(

[lonelylass]

Hi Ky,

You could try the letter approach, you have nothing to loose have you!

I did it and though H said it brought a lump to his throat, it never changed anything, he was on a secret mission and still is, just be prepared for no response at all (as has hapenned with justmeandbailey) are you prepared for this and would it make you feel more vulnerable and hurt?

At least you could say you tried your best, then she fails not you.

LoLa x

[Lanzo]

Hi Kayalan.


Does anyone think I can change her mind?
No (not at this time)

make her realise before it's too late?No (not at this time)
Or am I fighting a lost cause?No (but you will need to work hard to save your M)


My thoughts are to write her the best letter I have ever written and to outline all the positives, leave out any negatives and try to state exactly what there is at stake here
This is a possibility, it may stir up her guilt, she'll shed a few tear, but you get no further forward

Other thoughts were to have a chat with her dad. Not an arguement, but a chat and ask for his help and make him understand what he is doing to our relationship?
This can be done with the best of intentions but I don't think it would have the desired effect. Infact I wouldn't recommend it,
Or I can just leave her alone and hop that she realises her mistake, but by that time, the damage will have been done and will be beyond repair This is the most like likley course you will need to take, but even if the damage is done it's never too late. It all depends where you draw the line in the sand.

My intial advice would have been to stay in the house and work on you and your marriage as tough as it maybe. However now that you are moving back down south I would say stay in touch, stay friendly with your wife, leave the door open to reconsiling your marriage, but don't put your life on hold. You'll have to move on with you life, you may need to move on to win her back.

If you read the title of you thread, that is most likely to happen when you start to make a new life for yourself.

Keep posting here cos we'll all keep supporting you, all is not lost yet.

Lanzo

[912jws]

Kyalan,

I am a few months down the line from you and can tell you yes it will be hard but it will get easier, I promise!

Firstly with regards to your little one, bill is right, your children are yours and nobody can take that away so long as you continue to be a loving parent and try to spend as much time with them as possible, somebody else will never replace you!!

You will not sleep or eat that well for a couple of months, you will proably lose some weight which is sometimes a bonus if you are a little over weight :p The sleeping/eating problem will pass.

All I did with my wife is send her one last email pouring my heart out and that was it, it's not worth chasing/pushing her, lanzo offers some sensible advise although being a few months down the line I am seriously questioning whether I would take her back now and that is something you need to take in. I am trying to network a bit more now and get myself out and about and starting to enjoy being out on my own with friends, yes I still have days when I don't feel too great but it does start fading with every week that passes.

Chin up and keep talking.

Jon

[val100]

Kyalan,
The letter won't work I am afraid. If anything it will harden her resolve because she will feel that she can do as she wants and when she has had enough she can fall back on you.

Who with any taste would drive a puma, sorry but That is just wrong (to all those posting or reading this that drive puma's I apologise)

You need to let her go. Take a deep breath because I know this hurts, Right now she doesn't want you. That might change later but not right now. Why did you guys help them pack?

Here is something really important and it might help you men leaving your kids with their mums. This is my way of thinking ok so not all women will feel the same.
My Kids are just that Mine, I have no intention of replacing their dad, I have no intention of introducing another man into their lives until I know I am going to make a life with this man.
No man will sleep in my bed while my kids are in the house until he and i have made a commitment to each other.
For all my H's faults I had 4 amazing kids with him, We share our children together.
I fear the day he meets someone and my boys think she is nicer than me and my daughters think she is oh so beautiful and so much fun. I fear the day she kisses them hello or good bye, I fear the day she picks one of them up that has fallen and comforts them.
I hate her who ever she is, they are mine and I will not share them with her. However I don't have a choice. I wish this had been a real thought of mine before my affair because truth be told I would have put up with all the abuse to prevent them having a second mum.

I tried to fix my marriage I really did. My Brother spoke to my H, (everybody admired him as a father) he said to him how can you let the women you love move away, how can you leave your kids? Here is what he said" she is such a good mother I don't need to worry, I know I can do whatever I want and I will not have one worrying thought on the welfare of my kids, She is as good as any mother and father put together."

He told me that he accepts that I will meet someone and they will raise his kids, this is a fact of divorce and seperation his words.
He told me he has a 100% care free life as he knows his kids are fine and from Monday to friday he feels like he has no responsibilities.
He told me the kids will be fine with us seperated once they accept it. He was fine growing up with a single mother (oh my god , there is a reason in itself to fix us)
He told our kids that they could call his girlfriend at the time, Mum.
Does this man deserve my kids???
Do I believe what he says? I really don't know but he said it.
IT SUCKS!

[912jws]

Here is something really important and it might help you men leaving your kids with their mums. This is my way of thinking ok so not all women will feel the same.
My Kids are just that Mine, I have no intention of replacing their dad, I have no intention of introducing another man into their lives until I know I am going to make a life with this man.
No man will sleep in my bed while my kids are in the house until he and i have made a commitment to each other.

He told me he has a 100% care free life as he knows his kids are fine and from Monday to friday he feels like he has no responsibilities.


Hi Val,

I do hope some of our wives show the same respect for our children as you when it comes to new partners, although I think of mine with somebody else I think this must be the hardest thing as a single mother to deal with in terms of a new relationship and she has got to deal with trusting someone else, he may be right for her but will he be right for the kids or want to be with her as a complete unit. And this will be a lot harder for her because she is the one that has left me.

It's funny your husbands quote sounds exactly like my wifes the other week in the fact that when the kids are with me she can have a carefree life and do what she wants - selfish comes to mind :rolleyes:

Speak soon,

Jon

[val100]

Well jon,
I have to be honest, I don't worry about my kids when they are with their dad I relax and think about them every minute but truth is he loves them, he is a great dad and they are safe and with the only other person I would leave my kids to.

I don't mean it in a selfish way they love him he looks after them I wish I could be with him and them this weekend like it used to be.

My boys and I spoke about me seeing men again it was so sad they both said I should but my 11yr old said just promise us he will be nice to us. It broke my heart, I would never let anyone in my life that wouldn't respect my kids.

I am very content to accept that I may not meet a man who can or will want to have a life with me and my four kids. Honestly I have everything I need in my life I am so lucky.

[kyalan]

Afternoon All,

Gave her a letter on Friday, she text to say "thank you for the letter, but I don't know what to say"
She txt me Saturday to ask if she could borrow the car - the cheeky bitch!!
But like an idiot that I am, I said o.k (was maybe hoping that if I did nice things, then maybe things can change)
Didn't see W again until Sunday when she dropped off the car and our son - who wasn't very well, but hey, "she had things to do!!"
So son stayed with me last night and he wasn't very well at all - so txt her to say he wasn't very well and wanted his mum - the reply = "just look after him will you" - As if I wouldn't?
Saw her again this morning when I dropped him off for Nursery, and got a frosty look from her, but strangely, a reassuring shoulder rub from her mum, who then burst into tears - what's that all about? The woman hates me!!

So I got in car and went to work - rang W on way asking to give me a proper reason as to why she's leaving - she still can't! she just says that she needs to do this, and I'll understand down the line
No I won't understand - I won't ever understand unless I see a clear reason in front of me and I'm sorry, but "I don't know why I'm leaving you" just doesn't cut it!!
She STILL says she's not 100% certain this is what she wants, but is more towards leaving than staying?!?!

I met her outside her work this morning and we spoke for 15 mins - seemed to get nowhere, but I told her that if this is what she wants, then all ties will be cut with her, and my family will deal with her over our son.

So she said "yes, this is what I want" and got out of my car

Since then I have had 3 txts - and I haven't replied to 1! The last one she was really sh*tty on! But why should I speak to her? I don't want to!

I don't know why, but I rang her friend (one of the mums of the year) and asked her to be straight with me about what my W has told her - I've always been nice to her and even helped her out financially when she was trying to get out of her relationship (she was being beaten up and he was spending her money) - plus I think she can shed more light on the subject than me (bear in mind, everyone else knew prior to me)

So, she has invited me round to hers for a chat tonight and sworn to be honest with me. I've asked her not to tell W and I don't think she will because - 1. if W found out she invited me round, she would hit the roof, and 2. This friend knows that I know about her affair(s), so wouldn't risk p*ssing me off

I think what annoys me the most is that my W wants me to be there if this single life fails and she wants me back - hence why she can't give me a reason why she doesn't want it anymore and also is not 100% sure about things - but if she gave me a reason....i.e, "your an asshole, you've annoyed me by doing x....",or "I hate you for doing blah blah blah", or even "I've met someone else" - at least I'd know it was definately over and I'd be out of her way in less time than she could be on the phone to her dad :D

But she keeps giving me false hope in the things that she says....

Anyway, I'm moving in 3 weeks and I hope it hits her hard
I hope she regrets what she is doing to us now, for the rest of her life and I really really hope it hurts!!!!

A really p*ssed off Kyalan:mad:

[val100]

BILLY IT IS ONE THING TO CALL YOUR WIFE A BITCH BUT DOES ANYONE DESERVE TO BE CALLED KERRY KATONA. I THINK NOT!! SHAME ON YOU.
Kyalan, stay away from her friend accept that right now you won't get answers. This friends loyalty is to your wife if it isn't then trust me she is after something else (your body baby).
Seriously best to let your wife think you have accepted that it is over because as billy says she has you right where she wants you. She knows you are her soft place to land you will get even more hurt.

[kyalan]

I'm hoping I get plenty of insight from her friend as she's one of these people - once she starts, there's no stopping her and she has put her foot in it a few times!

Fingers crossed!

Kyalan:mad:

[912jws]

I approached one of our mutual friends trying to find answers as my wife wasn't giving me any, this friend who i respected and thought respected me and the fact she loves the family went straight back to my wife after I put the phone down :mad: so in return I got a nasty call from my wife and we had a not so nice conversation :rolleyes:

I think also the problem in our situations is we are looking for a third party and sometimes perhaps there isn't one and that's what frustrates our other halves? I know I am not 100% sure if there is anyone else, my wife could of gone with another bloke for her nice weekend away to the middle east the other week but didn't, she took our au-pair, Saturday night I had the kids, she wasn';t out she was at home watching TV, I think what I am trying to say is that we look for things that aren't always there :confused:

[kyalan]

Did you find anything out then?

As the Churchill dog would say "OOOOOH Yes!!!"

I spent 5 hours chatting to her friend and I feel 20 times better today

Her friend thinks she is making a huge mistake and has urged her to get medical help
Her friend thinks she never went to the doctors (as I doubted also)
She has told my W to stop playing games and start trying at this marriage - something my wife hated and they had an rguement about

As always there are 2 sides to every story - now, this friend hated me and thought I was a pr*ck - until she spoke to me last night, and she's realised everything now makes sense

We had a really good chat and at the end of it, she feels really concerned for my W cause she's on course for a breakdown

Suggested the best thing for me to do is to leave and W's friend believes this will hit her like a ton of bricks

Only concern for both W's friend and me is that if she is depressed, then this will plunge her deeper into a depressive state - which we are both greatly concerned

We both feel that my W isn't 100% certain of what she is doing, but none of us can get through to her yet.....

Feels better to know that her friend has told her she's making a big mistake and not everyone is in agreement with her (like she's been telling me)

So will not ring, txt or bother with her for a couple of weeks and I think it will then start to dawn on her "what the f*ck am I doing?"

Kyalan

[val100]

So you left and wifes friend decides wow nice guy I am going to ring her and tell her all that has been said.

Can't really comment, my head has had a huge kicking. My H has been on.

Tell me if he frigging loves me this much why the hell didn't he help me fix us! Now it is too late for me.
Sorry I am no help to anyone today. Crying again

[kyalan]

Hi Val,

I'm pretty certain W's friend will not ring her to tell her what was said

Sound's like your H still hasn't forgiven you and still wants you to pay for what you did.

Sorry Val I don't know your full story, so can't comment fully, but sounds like he's still angry

Something I keep asking myself - when is it "too late"?

People keep telling me - "it's never too late" - but when do I know that it's "too late"?

I really don't know

Kyalan:o

[val100]

Hi Kyalan
No this wasn't his anger this was his sadness coming out. His email had me in tears, his phonecall yesterday broke my heart.

It is too late for me because I don't believe he has changed because the grass is just that little bit greener and much and all as I am tired this life is way easier.

i do love him but violence is a hard thing to get over.
I want to hold him and make his life better he lost everything but that is what he wanted he told me to leave and to take the kids.

He had met someone, he told me he loved her and wanted to make a go of it with her.Now he tells me it was a mistake but that he couldn't live with me because of his hurt. He isn't happy he misses his life, his kids and his bestfriend. He realises how lucky he was to have me in his life and he could't believe how lucky he was thatI chose to share my life with him. So what do I do ?
My kids are missing him terribly, my 14 yr old was crying alnight. For them i would fix it but I won't be happy, am I too selfish?

[kyalan]

Sometimes I think people need to be selfish to protect themselves
Everyone can change if they want to


Poem I read yesterday


"Whether we feel compassionate or not
we still should act compassionately.
It’s a lot like love and those of you that are married
will know this to be true:
that you are supposed to love
whether you feel it or not.

When it gets to the hard grind of marriage
that’s where you truly learn to love
and you are supposed to love
you are supposed to act in a loving way
whether you feel like it or not.

Because in the end
love is not an emotion that I feel;
love is a commitment that I make.
It is a commitment that I make to consistently act
in the best interests of the other person.
That is love."


As I keep being told marriage is all about comprimise

Kyalan

[kyalan]

One good thing to come out of all this - I now weigh 14st 9lbs (To any Brits) 205lbs (to any Americans) or 93kgs (to any europeans)

Before all this started I weighed approx 18st/252lbs/114kgs

Don't know whether to feel happy or not :rolleyes:

[912jws]

Hi Kyalan
No this wasn't his anger this was his sadness coming out. His email had me in tears, his phonecall yesterday broke my heart.

It is too late for me because I don't believe he has changed because the grass is just that little bit greener and much and all as I am tired this life is way easier.

i do love him but violence is a hard thing to get over.
I want to hold him and make his life better he lost everything but that is what he wanted he told me to leave and to take the kids.

He had met someone, he told me he loved her and wanted to make a go of it with her.Now he tells me it was a mistake but that he couldn't live with me because of his hurt. He isn't happy he misses his life, his kids and his bestfriend. He realises how lucky he was to have me in his life and he could't believe how lucky he was thatI chose to share my life with him. So what do I do ?
My kids are missing him terribly, my 14 yr old was crying alnight. For them i would fix it but I won't be happy, am I too selfish?

God Val...dilemmas dilemmas

Can a leopard change it's spots? I guess only you can decide that, I feel sorry for you in that you love him, the kids love him but there is possibly no way back because of what he has done to you in the past.

Could you have a trial get together and see how things work out under your terms?, don't ask him to move back in fully, just to stay for a bit, I guess this will be really difficult thing for you to think about given that you have got used to being on your own, I don't know TBH, do you think he has changed or just lonely?

Look after yourself!

Jon

[val100]

Hi billy,
No no see saw more just the guilt of it all. It is the pull of the kids really. He hasn't asked me and no I only see brief glimpses of change but what can be fantastic this week will be awful next week.
He rang me last night and I was telling him my very funny poem which is too irish for you lot out there. He said oh "val " it is so good to hear you laugh, I didn't have the heart to say I love my life I am always laughing.
It is hard I still love him and I thought I would die without him but I didn't and I really like my life now.
My kids miss him so much though,is it not the right thing to do ? that is my issue i feel guilty i don't want to. I amdoing nowt but you know these things occupy your head and it is impossible to shift.
as for a trial run there again is the problem i can't put my kids through that again.
anyway he hasn't asked. we both told each other that we still loved one another.
Kyalan, every cloud has its silver lining I weigh 8st and am a size 8 only problem is I lost my chest. If I win the lottery I tell you

[kyalan]

Afternoon All,

Well, the end is nigh
I move out tomorrow into my flat and I'm devastated
Not looking forward to it at all, but hey, what can I do?

Wife is still not 100% certain she is doing the right thing, but feels she still needs to go through with it anyway

Oh well, I tried my hardest - the ball is now firmly in her court!

Kyalan:(

[val100]

Kyalan,
Do you have people to keep you company and support you right now because you will need them.
I am so sorry I can't offer you any help or real advice othere that stay strong don't fall apart.
Women are so lucky We leave but we leave with the kid.
My H wrote to me how through his own stupidity he lost his best friend, his kids and his life. I cannot imagine what his evenings are like without those four jumping around the place and annoying the life out of me.
I am sorry for you. keep posting

[SadBill]

Afternoon All,

Well, the end is nigh
I move out tomorrow into my flat and I'm devastated
Not looking forward to it at all, but hey, what can I do?

Wife is still not 100% certain she is doing the right thing, but feels she still needs to go through with it anyway

Oh well, I tried my hardest - the ball is now firmly in her court!

Kyalan:(

Of course your devestated, who wouldnt be faced with the seperation from not only someone who who you had made a life with, but also from your son, an innocent victim in this horrible situation. Look forward to your time with him. MAKE SURE you get time with him. Its your right, and he needs you. More than you need him.

Your role is twofold, you must be a great dad for your son, and you must make your life worthwhile for you.

Good luck with the move, the silence gets easier after a while, and theres a reason that we have cell phones. To remain in contact with our kids.

You are in my thoughts, God Bless you, and your son in this difficult time.
Bill

[kyalan]

Do you have people to keep you company and support you right now because you will need them.


Unfortunately not which is why it's so hard for me - nearest friends are 200 miles away and I can't afford to go see them :(

my family have offered to come stay with me, but I have nowhere for them to sleep in my new flat :(

Next time I will get to see my son is in about 4 weeks time - and it will kill me!

The silence in my house is deafening at the moment, but there will be other people living in the flat, so at least I have their company (not actually met them yet, but they move in tomorrow aswell)

It's just so sad to leave everything behind

I have said what could be my last words to my wife this morning. I said "this is it for us then?" turned and walked away

She stood at the door (staying at her mums) and cried hers eyes out - does this sound like a woman who is 100% sure???

I give up I really really do

I'm not a religious person at all, but I pray every night that she realises what a big mistake she is making

Kyalan:(

[912jws]

Things WILL get better, not seeing your son so regularly will not be great and that's one reason I pay sky high rent at the moment so I am near the kids, it will be 6 days since I last saw my 2 on Saturday but I at least I have something to look forward to for the weekend and have them with me for a couple of days.
Its funny for the first few weeks I felt like you probably do now, silence, lonely, dwelling on things but I feel a lot better in myself now.
I try and keep myself busy if I am on my own, so much so that sometimes I don't have enough time to do everything, I am creating a new social circle so that I have options if ever I do feel at a lost end.
And talking about it will make things better, I know my best mate doesn't get pestered half as much as he did a few weeks back :D which is always a good sign that you are coping better.

Look after yourself!

Jon

[kyalan]

Your flat is back south then Kyalan? unfortunately yes

I think 4 weeks is too long for you to have to wait and me mate, it's going to kill me

Drive up at weekend and have for the day all day . sort out accomodation, its warmer -got a tent ? or a cheap B&B .then back down next day ? I really can't afford it - friends and relatives have offered to lend me money - but I can't afford to give it back to them afterwards
haven't got a tent either - have thought about sleeping in my car if it at least gets me to see him.....

Got the long drive down south tonight straight from work

Last night was hard - all my stuff packed, ready to go, and I couldn't stop crying

Kyalan:(

[lonelylass]

Hi Kyalan,

Just wanted to say thinking of you, it may not seem it now but it will get better, let's hope for your sake absence makes the heart grow fonder.

LoLa x

[val100]

Take the money people want to help and I promise no one will be asking for the money until you have it.
It won't cost you too much and money is the last thing that must stop you from seeing your son. Ask her to meet you half way.

You are a man it is your job to find a way.
Much love

[kyalan]

Morning All,

Move went well - but was really lonely this weekend in my flat.
Forgot to bring a telly with me so had little to no entertainment this weekend! DOH!

Also, heating in flat is broken, so went to local swimming baths/leisure centre for a shower, sh*t and shave this morning - all free of charge may I add :D

Struggling to cope with the reality of it all really.

Have received 3 txts from W since I told her not to contact me last Thursday - each txt was a question as she was wanting an answer, but I stayed strong and have resisted txting her back;)

Her friend text me Saturday night to say she had offered to spend the evening with my W, but my W REFUSED TO GO OUT - Instead saying she wanted to stay in as she was struggling to come to terms with the fact I had gone - Not reading too much into it, but a good sign maybe?

But apart from that, I haven't told the mutual friend what I've been up to - even though she asked (possibly acting as a double agent for both me and W, and who knows, W may have asked her to check on me)

On the money front - I've applied for a credit card in the hope that I can put some tanks of fuel in my car on there to go see my son and pay it back gradually :D

It's just really hard to have left everything behind in the hope that she misses me - and all I keep thinking is "what if she doesn't miss me?"
That's one of the hardest thing to come to terms with

Her friend rang me Friday to wish me good luck and said she would tell me if W misses me as I know my W is too stubborn to say anything.
The friend also mentioned that my W, even up until Friday night, did not think that I was actually going and was saying "Oh, he will be back on Monday" "he's only gone away for the weekend" - that goes to show she thinks I'd always be there

But I have gone, and I am on my 3 month probation period in my new job, so I can still move back at a weeks notice

I love her to bits and it's so hard for me to let go

As everyone keeps saying "Chin up, son"

Kyalan:o

[912jws]

Hi Kyalan,

Glad to hear that the move went ok albeit a bit lonely, like you say don't tell the Wifes friend what you are doing as she may pass it back to her, if your shagging a playboy model next week then let that one go :p I know you will be saying the same as me now - I wish!
Hopefully once your flat mates move on that will ease the pain a bit, like you say her not going out is possibly a good sign - who knows?
Its the same with my wife, I had the kids again this weekend and she was home all weekend as far as I can tell getting paperwork and stuff sorted for the taxman.
I know it's going to be tough for you for a while but try keeping yourself occupied.
Like I said in the tunes thread, don't know if you read it? would tickets to see Nickleback and Staind cheer you up ;)

Look after yourself!

Jon

[jessicauk]

Love is an act rather than a feeling. If we are subject to our feelings anything could happen. Every day is different.I'm sad to hear you lost your dad
its good your parents loved each other plus your mom treated you with all her extra love.......

[kyalan]

Morning,

Flat is not good at all - it just feels weird being there and nothing is mine
Stayed in my room all night last night - the T.V ariel is broken, so tried playing PS3 - scart lead to that has broken! So sat reading a book last night, and eventually got to bed about 1:30ish

Was up at 5 this morning and walking down the local shops - am bored out of my mind and it's really affecting me

Can't stop thinking about my W, but know that if I ring her it will smother her

She doesn't understand how hard it is to see my son - if I have no money to get there, or I have to work at weekends, then I can't help it - but she says I'm just trying to be awkward and I need to find another job where I can work 9-5, Monday to Friday - so I think I'll apply to Tesco's and earn even less money, and be even lower than I already feel

And she is only willing to bring him half way - but I don't want to see her. I can't look the woman who has destroyed my life in the eye

I'm going through the emotions now - I f*cking hate her

On top of that, she is living at home, with my money, going out when she wants, doing what she wants, without a care in the world

And her parents are fully supporting her with it - the f*cking pricks!!!

Kyalan :mad:

[kyalan]

Horrible mate, it really is.

This weekend was awful, have had no contact from W, missing my son like crazy.....

Only thing I keep thinking is - still no sign of a solicitors letter/divorce proceedings which I requested a while ago - is this a good sign?

I know her whereabouts for the whole of the weekend, so not sat wondering what she's doing (which is a bonus, I suppose?)

Various friends, neighbours, her friends all texting me to tell me her latest whereabouts/plans - everyone seems to be on my side and feels for me.

Just feel so low, lonely, ugly, unwanted - I can go on all day, but hard to get the true feeling across.

The last thing she said to me was that she wasn't 100% certain about all this, but had to do it. So I'm trying to look at the positives.

I'll stick it for as long as I can. Partly because I'm struggling to move on and partly because I see the smallest glimmer of hope.

Kyalan:(

[912jws]

Kyalan,

I know exactly what your going through mate although I appreciate it is probably a little worse due to the lack of contact with your little one.
I say it does get easier with time but as I stated in another thread I started today you will get knockbacks where you are questioning their motives/reactions which lead to confusion of your feelings from our perspective.
My wife told me yesterday that she had a form/letter for me to sign from her solicitor, again there has been no mention of divorce from her side, just that the seperation is likely to be permanent? the letter she wants me to sign is something along the lines of agreeing she is primamry carer, she is a responsible parent, that she is not going to pursue money from me via the CSA..bla bla, until I see this letter in the flesh I am not sure I am going to sign it as I don't know whether I will giving her a get out of jail free card if ever things get $hitty?
On the subject of moving on I guess I would love for someone to show me they want me again and that may just give me the boost I need to start moving on but that's easier said then done :rolleyes:
It's funny I felt all weird and reminiscent over the weekend towards the other half but I am starting to revert back to the resentment again, I guess in our situations if they are going to change then it's them that need to do the running, I wont wait with baited breath, as some people have said that you are seperated so continue your life as being seperated and if your life changes for the best ie. your partner wants things to work or you meet someone else then so be it.
Its early days for a lot of us and we can just take one day at a time.

All the best,

Jon

[kyalan]

Hi Jon / Billy / All,

I can't even contemplate moving on. My life has been made with my W, and even if someone did show an interest in me - I can't show them the interest back that they would probably want.

And all I'd talk about is my W anyway, which would bore the sh1t out of the person showing any interest....

As far as I can see, my life is over in terms of relationships.
I can't be bothere to start again, I can't be bothered with the teething problems of relationships, and I just can't see me ever being able to let anyone get close to me ever again, due to fear of this happening again.

My hope for the future - I go back to the subject of this thread "How can I get her to realise what she's losing?" - W still thinks this perfect single life exists - at the moment, she's in the "honeymoon" period and saying she's "carefree" "unstressed" and "happier than ever"

But what happens when I stop paying the mortgage and she has to find the money herself?
What happens when she is ill? Or breaks her ankle again? and no-one is there to look after our son?
What happens when her parents can't be there for her all the time?
What happens when her friends can't go out with her and she feels lonely?

Unfortunately, none of this has happened yet, and she can't see any of the above as being a problem to her, but I have thought about these things time and time again......

I need it to hit home in her own mind before she can even think about me.

But how?

Kyalan

[912jws]

I need it to hit home in her own mind before she can even think about me.

But how?

Kyalan

The answer is to let her find out herself, I think that's the only way and something that they don't see unfortunately.
I wonder how my wife can keep spending and whether she is truly happy with her life at the moment now she has some of the material things that I said we couldn't afford, yes she may be going out for after work drinks with her colleagues when I have the kids.
As my friend has said her finances are a train crash waiting to happen because she thinks she can have everything she wants but she is taking risks and sooner or later something will have to give, as he also points out and perhaps the reason she has not been out that much is that all her work colleagues/friends are just that, they work with her and have their own lives outside of work hence why she is not out all the time she could be. She is also working most weekends because of work but i think also she needs the extra pay to subsidise her outgoings at the moment.
Like I said all you can do is let them do what they need to do and thats that unfortunately.
Just getting a kiss yesterday sent me off on a tangent of what if's, is it a sign, do I follow up or try something to woo her back but I thought no way, I will continue moving forward alone and if and that's a big if from her side that she starts showing signs that she might want to resolve things then I will think about it, but I think I have more chance of winning the lottery and would I be a fool to let her back into my life?

Who know's mate because I certainly don't!