Nothing in common

[ApplesauceNinja]

My wife and I share a car, and tonight I forgot to pick her up from work
at the proper time. Now, she was already angry at me for something I
said to a friend of hers on myspace, and I guess forgetting to pick her up was the last straw.

She had a coworker drop her off at the house, and when she came in,
her only words were "I'm sick of you. I'm sick of your mother. I want
a divorce." Now, she says this often when she's angry, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt any less to hear.

My mom, and I love her dearly, isn't the most mentally balanced person in
the world, and she's a bit of a meddler. She means well, but she does
meddle. My wife and her had a falling out about it some two or so years
ago, and things haven't been right between them since. So, they
simply avoid each other.

But, if my mom were the only issue we had, we'd be in great shape.
We have the perfect storm brewing. Our finances are tight, so we
can't go out often. The problem with this is that she is very gregarious
and likes to go out with friends. She goes to clubs and such with a
friend now and again to let off some steam.

I am the opposite. I despise clubs and partying. I'm a very quiet sort.
I like to play video games, surf the net, or simply read to unwind. I
don't like anything my wife likes, and she feels the same toward my
interests. She likes to, as I've said, go out with friends. The problem
with this is that she only has one friend (she works at a small business
where she's basically there are only two employees, so workplace friendships aren't even possible for her), and I happen to hate that friend.

Her friend, to put it nicely, is useless, in my opinion. She won't hold a job,
and she lives with whatever boyfriend she has at the moment. Her parents
are raising her kids for her, and she is a mooch. I hate mooches. But,
my wife and this mooch are childhood friends.

I have no qualms with my wife going out once a week, but some weeks
it's three times or more. I feel as if I am not as important to my wife as
her dipsh*t buddy. When I say something about it, my wife's response
is, invariably "Well, we don't do anything together." And, that is true.

We can't even watch tv together. All she wants to watch is those
inane makeover and fashion shows. All I want to watch is basically
anything other than that. When we do try to compromise on a show
or movie, she falls asleep every time. So, I don't even bother trying
anymore.

Now, it shouldn't bother me that my wife is seeking release with her
friend. What bothers me is that she not only neglects me in the process,
but our 6 year old son as well. She has no involvement in his life, which
she blames on me. She says "well, if you made enough money for me
to stay home, I'd be a super mom." Between work, school, and the
gym, she says she has no time for anything else. Except, of course,
her idiot friend.

So, her idea is that since I don't make piles of cash, her not being a mother
to her child is justifiable. She loves our son dearly, don't get me wrong,
but she has almost no interaction with him. We love each other very
much, and neither of us is a big believer in divorce, even though she threatens me with it regularly. We just have nothing in common.

I prefer quiet pursuits at home, and she prefers going out and about.
I don't want our marriage to end, but sometimes I feel like it's inevitable.
We've been together for 10 years, and married for almost 8. I love her
more than my own life. I just don't know what to do with her anymore.
Even our sex life is nonexistent. We are intimate maybe once every
5 or 6 weeks. I'm at the end of my rope. Advice?

[Delilah]

Sounds like you are taking each other for granted a bit and that you need to inject some quality couple time together. This means both of you making compomising on things that you individually like to do. If you love one another you will make sacrifices for each other - i.e. perhaps you can make more of an effort to socialise with her friend and show your wife that you do care about her - you could get her to come over to your house so they get a girlie chat and you can be there also.

I have to say some of what you said strikes a cord with me. My husband and I are very different, I am more outgoing, where my husband likes to stay in and also fiddles with the computer. This has irritated me previously and we have talked about it as there are times where he spends more time with the computer than me! Anyway, I dont know if this exactly applies to you but again, tell you wife that you want to spend more time together and you will spend less so on the computer. You both can suggest things to do together that you both enjoy - have glass of wine, put some music on when your 6yr old is in bed. Woo her and make her feel special, romance and fun sounds like it is missing from your marrige.

Perhaps her lack of interest in your son is due to boredom in general with her life - I am guessing. If your mother is interfering then that will inevitably damage your relationship and she needs to back off. I say this from experience - I tried with my own MIL and she has been nothing but nasty as her son is quote "her little boy". My own husband despairs as he loves her but hates what she is doing. Ofcourse he loves his mother, like you, and nobody would expect less BUT you yourself say that you and your wife had a big falling out over this! Be warned my oen parents divorced b/c my PIL were always critising my own mother and she got fed up with my father standing idly by!

You both need to speak and I would suggest write down what you both want from your marriage and provide examples and ideas on how to get it back on track!

I can understand that you dont see why your wife would want to socialise with a friend who you see as useless, but we cant choose our partner's friends. There have been times where I could have easily jumped to judgements about my husbands mates but I hold my tongue if it has no bearing on my relationship. Remember your bugbear is with your wife!

Good luck.

[Delilah]

I would like to add something to what Billyboy has said - yes it is hard making an effort with friends who you dont really like. But you have to try and you may be pleasantly surprised that there are aspects that you like about your wife's friends, especially if you leave your previous judgments aside and purely get to know her for her. I am not saying she is perfect (by what you have said she isnt) there may be good reasons for the way she acts that you dont know about. Plus if it is your wife's childhood friend then they have a firmer bond than most - the more you try and dissuade her from this friend the more inclined she will be to latch on. I am sure you would feel the same in her shoes to be honest!

As for the tv thing - god dont most couples have at least snipes over this every now and again? I am sure its normal! I always make an effort to watch things my partner likes and he does the same to me. Find some common ground!

[Raymond]

No couple have everything in common, but that doesn't make the marriage not work. We have to respect the others interest and sometimes make a little effort at least to share a little bit of their interest.

I think if you start verbalising negative thoughts, even on here, you make it worse. Try and see the good points in her as well. Yes she has her faults like everyone else but I cannot believe you have nothing at all in common as you would not have married each other. If you go around looking at the glass as half empty instead of half full you are going to get negative. Every person on the earth has good points if you look for them. Yes they need to sort themselves out but everyone is worth something. Complete rejection is not going to help anyone, so don't blow up the faults in another to the point of being completely negative. Please accept her as she is even though you cannot relate to everything. You will be surprised what a difference it makes.

Raymond

[ApplesauceNinja]

I appreciate everyone's input, and I agree with a good bit of it.
However, that I will ever get along with my wife's friend is a
rock solid impossibility. Whoever concluded that diamond is
the hardest substance on earth obviously never took measure
of the head of my wife's friend. The girl is dense like you would
not believe.

She's been fired, usually within the span of three weeks,
from every job she's ever had. She is fairly intelligent in
an academic sense, but she cannot bring herself to adhere
to rules and the structured environment of the workplace.
I've oft speculated that where her brain should be are fifty
gerbils dancing a never ending Macarena.

She can't provide for herself, so she lives with whatever man
will have her. Eventually, they all grow weary of her behavior
and put her out. And, she just doesn't get it. At all.

But, you all are right. The more I've tried to convince my wife
to write this girl off, the more determined she seems to be in
doing the opposite. My wife herself has admitted that the girl
is a social moron, and that she's not likely to ever be self
reliant. And yet, she still wants to be around her. Arrrrghhh!!!

And why is this, do you suppose? It's because the girl has an
anything goes mentality. She's always up for whatever my
wife wants to go out and do or see. My wife can have the fun
with her that she says is impossible with me.

And, to a degree, she's right. The things she enjoys, such
as hiking and swimming, and social events, are things I'd
nearly almost rather put bamboo shoots under my fingernails
than have to endure. I'm an indoor dog.

The things I like to do, such as play games, record podcasts,
surf the net, read, and visit electronics stores are activities
she has an equal disdain for. I am a nerd of the highest
order. Star Wars, comic books, if it's geeky, it's me. I
am the mayor of Geek City.

We have some common activities we enjoy, such as going
to see movies, going bowling, and so on, but she says
that's not enough.

Now, compromise is the key to survival for any marriage.
I'm not so dense as to have not learned this by now.
However, when I take part in things she enjoys, she
knows that I'm doing it for her, and not because I
genuinely want to. The only thing I genuinely want
to do when I engage in her activities is make her
happy.

But, as we talked last night, she said to me "It's not
enough for you to do these things. I want you to
want to do them. I want you to enjoy the simple
things too. I want a man who makes plans to do
things. I'm up for anything, if you would just ask."

I understand her point of view. If my wife were to
follow me into an electronics store, I couldn't enjoy
myself nearly as much while knowing she was in
her own private hell being there with me.

We've been together for 10 years, as I said. I'm not
going to lie to you. Shortly after we married, she
tried to engage me. She really did. And, I kind of
shut her out. I made no effort to compromise.
If I didn't want to do what she wanted, I didn't.
It was simple as that. I was a selfish lug for
the first five years of our life together.

But, I eventually woke up. I said to myself
"I love my wife. I want her to be happy.
I don't ever want to be a source of misery
for her. She deserves better than that."
My wife is a beautiful woman, inside and
out. She is a loving soul. And, she isn't
a bad mother at all. She just isn't as
engaged with our son as I think she ought
to be.

She's a hard worker, and she's always been
faithful to me. I trust her completely. I
don't care if she goes out to clubs. She
does get hit on, and I know that. But,
I think it'd start raining whales before
she'd cheat.

But, I think that she, being a woman,
has a tendency to equate shared
activities with the relationship itself.
I see outside activities as being separate
from the relationship. I don't think one
necessarily requires the other.

To me, a relationship between a man
and wife should be based on intimacy.
You should be able to confide in one
another and share thoughts and
feelings that you couldn't possibly
with anyone else. It isn't about
the things you go out and do on
the weekends.

My wife told me last night "you shut me
out for so long that I just accepted it, and
so I don't try anymore." But, I haven't
shut her out for years. I stopped that
long ago.

I love her so much. Not a day goes by
that I don't' pull her to me, hug her,
kiss her, and tell her how beautiful
she is and that I love her. On my
days off, I always go and bring
breakfast to her. I get her drink
refills at restaurants so she doesn't
have to. I cook for her. I do
every little thing I can to show her
how important she is to me.

But, she doesn't see it as real love,
I suppose. She says "yes, you buy me
things and do all of these little things for
me. That's your idea of showing love,
not mine." That hurt me deeply.

I thought that doing all of the little
things was the best way to show love
and adoration.

I feel like I'm losing her, and it scares me.
I'm equally scared of losing her and of keeping
her but having her be miserable because I can't
seem to do the things that make her happy. It's
a rough situation.

[Delilah]

Applesauceninja - firstly I had to smile a little from the description of your wife's friend! The reason = I had a friend like this. She was lazy (when I say lazy, god was she!) she always relied on everyone else, including men even to get her buy. She was intelligent and was good at the academic stuff but always got fired within a few weeks b/c she wanted that perfect job that didnt exist i.e. get up at 11am and go, finish at 2pm and get paid loads! I could go on. This aspect of her personality got on my nerves, as I am quite a proactive person and I couldnt understand why she would want to be like that BUT it was HER life and if she wanted to live her life like that, then that was HER lookout. She was fun and we always got on, her laziness only damaged herself and not me, I tired to point stuff out to her but she was blind. Accept the fact that there ARE people like that out there, accept them for who they are and if it doesnt affect YOU and your wife - who cares? Seriously.

As for the fact that you didnt really try the 1st 5 years of your marriage - I have to be honest that this would damage my relaitonship (for me). Women rely on intimacy through closeness - I am not saying yourwife is like me, but most females like to be wooed and feel special. If you sort of failed at this initially in some respects then her atittude probably adjusted. She got used to it and adapted. Well done for changing though, maybe now you both dont "understand" the other but it does sound like you both want to. Have you tried relationship counselling? Reading books like "Men are from Mars and Women from Venus" - "Five languages of love"? These might help both of you understand. You sound a decent person A but something I pick up is that you are quite a strong character (not a bad thing by any means) but sometimes we can be too set in the ways of how we think.

E.g. the fact that you suddenly realised that you wanted to give your wife more - you woke up you said. This was after 5 years of doing something else. Open yourself up to other possibilities if you can e.g. your wife's friend/activities. If you cant do things that your wife like then look for new ones, there are plenty to chose from!

[Raymond]

Lost everything I wrote so will be brief.

"The Five Love Languages" that Delilah mentioned also occured to me when I read your post this morning AppleSauce. Delilah could be on the right track. The author is Gary Chapman. If Acts of Service are not her main love language, could be Touch, Gifts (needn't be expensive) Quality time or Words of Affirmation. You may love her but maybe it's not perceived in the best way as you may never be communicating in her main love language.

Number Two. Leave her friendl alone. Your wife already sees her weaknesses and you probably only alienate her more by running her down. Who knows that your wife may do some long term good for her. Let it be.

Your wife seems to have a choleric temperment. i.e. Acitivity is life and life is activity. That's how God made her. Don't try to change her. Try and build bridges where you can. You don't have to be the same as her. It might be boring if you were. She will change over the years and so will you, so let her live.

Try and have quality time together and don't neglect your sexual relationship with her. That is important as well.

Sorry this is brief. I could not face writing it all again.

God bless

Raymond

[ApplesauceNinja]

Delilah and Raymond, thank you for the input. Deliliah, you were dead on
about her friend. That is exactly how she is. She goes from job to job,
always getting fired because she'd rather do her own thing than what the
job actually entailed.

Once, she actually worked at my employer. The manager who hired her
asked me point blank if she was a good worker. I did not lie. I told this
manager "she's very flighty, and if you hire her, it's on you, not me. "
The manager hired her anyway. Two weeks later, she was fired.
She just decided that the whole coming in on time and on your scheduled
days wasn't really important.

But, I digress. She is my wife's friend. As a matter of fact, it was through
her that my wife and I first met. There was a time when I was friends with
this girl as well, but over time I got to where I couldn't stand being in the
same room with her. I don't easily suffer fools, to put it nicely.

I don't fuss anymore when my wife goes out with her. I just figure that my
wife needs to let off steam in her own way, and she is an adult who is more
than capable of making her own choices. There is nothing I would ever deny
my wife, if it were in my power to give. But, when her going out with
this girl starts to severely cut into our time together (which between work
and school isn't a lot), I do get very resentful of her friend.

Last night we made love, and it was fantastic. It was the first time in almost
6 weeks. (!!!!) She knows I love her with all my heart, and she
loves me dearly as well. I know that. It's just...her...that I miss. You know?

[Delilah]

It sounds really that the problem regarding the amount of time that your wife spends with her friend is down to your wife, not her friend although I can understand why you dont like her. By the by my own husband really disliked my friend also, he thought she was a user. If I look back she more than likely was! Oh well.

Anyway - I think its how you communicate that love that is important to women. Everyone is different but I love it when my husband is romantic and attentive (it doesnt have to be through buying gifts). Have you thought about each compiling a list about what you want from your marriage and especially out of each other, then adding what each of you could do in order to fulfill that for the other? That way you know what your wife wants. Talking is soooo important in a marriage. Does your wife want to be with you?

[ApplesauceNinja]

Delilah, my wife tells me she loves me, and that she wants to be with
me. She is kind of at a point where she's not sure how to be, though.
I don't think, honestly, that we're in danger of falling apart or anything,
but it's certainly at a point where we both want to turn things around
for the better before they degrade to that point.

We just have a hard time relating to each other. But, men and women
not being on the same page is a problem as old as time. It's just that
I think not enough people care enough to try and rectify it. I know it's
cliche, but communication is key.

[val100]

Hi, Applesauceninja you are going to lose your wife. You are a double of my husband except he had a verbally violent temper which has become physical in the last year. He was also not willing to strive for a better job to provide for his family which meant I had to hand my kids over to childcare to earn money for us (this wasn't a problem until later ,that is another story)

Broad band was a huge issue, playstation and constant ipod downloads etc drove me insane. Are you good at decision making? you sound like my H who was a great listener and for 2 days would ponder on my needs and then say I quote 'ah sure she will get over it.' I didn't and like you I said it would rain whales before I would be unfaithful guess what it rained whales.
We had many issues when we were first together he locked me out, he enjoyed what he enjoyed and some of it was serious, however nothing that couldn't have been sorted with a bit of selfless behaviour on his part. I stuck it out and for 14 years I didn't put a foot wrong I accepted this was my lot.

His Mother was the straw that broke the camels back. You sound like your wife should just accept whatever your mother is and get over it. She won't, you are not addressing the issues with your mother and therefore chosing your mother over your wife in both their eyes. Your mother deserves respect and appreciation but so does your wife. It is also not your wifes job to sort out your mum it is yours.

There are clouds over your head right now ready to pour whales. I am sorry for being so harsh but I actually thought it was my H that had written this. the only differences are I don't have a useless friend and I am a totally frazzeled but dedicated mother of 4.

Your wifes friend- Stop name calling (another thing my H was fantastic at) why are you judging her? She lives her life in a manner you don't agree with. Who has the problem??
She may not be who you want your wife to be friends with but hey why should she give up a friend when you won't switch off the computer. If you actually love your wife you can actually find a common ground that will make her unable to spend so much time with her friend.

She likes to party but you don't, go find something else there is loads out there, theatre, meals, comedy clubs.
Go and buy a dvd recorder and ask her to record her favourite programs for a week. then compromise you spend one hr a night on the computer etc and she watch her programmes for that hr then you two spend some time together with each other with your child. Watch something that neither of you have watched before. Better again go to bed early add some spice. neither of you have to give up on what ye both like to do, you just don't have to dedicate all your free time to it.
Everything you do for your wife my husband did for me. We had no money and yet he would buy things for me because I like nice things. The only thing I loved was him and I couldn't buy that or compete with his mother or any apple mac product that exsisted.
I was his lowest priority yet he loved me more than anything in the world.
Communication, and ACTION are the key. My husband has lost me and his children. I have tried to fix it but his immaturity (which he admits to) has ruined it as well as his anger which is now Violent.

I left the hse once for 3 hrs he was playing playstation. He missed me on the 3rd hour.
He was my life. I have a picture of him on my Desk at work I miss him everyday but it is over.
You can read my thread and my posts. We ended up having so many problems because he wouldn't talk to his mum and turn off the computer, every awful thing that came after that originated from those two small things. We were together 15 yrs with four amazing kids. He no longer wants me because I hurt him, his attitude is we have run our course he is still behaving the same just worse and you know I deserve better. I miss being loved but I love being me and not crying out for attention. I am sorry if I sounded harsh but you are so close to losing what you love most in the world. I was the most dutiful wife, I was fun, Strong, whitty, forgiving, affectionate, hardworking and I kept our physical relationship at its best. He told me he was blissfully happy and he is the biggest idiot to not have listened to me. We are over though.
Go for help and please act. Read relationship rescue By Dr phil. Unfortunately it makes so much sense.
All the best.

P>S you should also know exactly when your wife finishes work. Don't you get it she isn't your priority anymore. She is stamping her feet to be heard but you are too busy making excuses. Sorry it is so parellel to my life.

[Raymond]

It can work Applesauce if you both want it to work. I can see problems on her side as well, like spending too much time with this friend to the detriment of spending time with you. That doesn't help, so it's not all you. You have a challenge on your hands as many marriages do. As I said before, you do not have to have everything in common. I see improvements even since you started posting, so it's not all black. There's room for both of you in this marriage regardless of your differences.

Nuala says you are like her husband. If that is true it is a chance for you to see it from the woman's side which is very important. Understanding is one of the big ones in marriage. If you can manage that in a loving way you will have made up a lot of ground.

Nuala mentioned making small compromises so that you both have middle ground to occupy together. That is very important. To just lose oneself in one's own interests to the exclusion of the marriage would be dangerous. Nothing wrong with interests but you should be controlloing them not them you.

Raymond

[Delilah]

Nuala Treacy has made some very valid points! I have to say I didnt go into it but my own mother in law is the same- interfering and horrid! My husband is so used to it, its an everyday thing to him until I came along and began to question their rudeness. My MIL in my opinion is threatened by my position in my husband's life. They always expect to come first and to be considered before you (the wives). Ofcourse my H loves her - I wouoldnt have it any other way but that issue should NOT be ignored. It destroys marriages and its definately affected my own adversely - sad but true. When you excuse your mother's ways, in your wife's eyes you are validating her interference. NOONE should interfere between husband and wife! Its wrong.

My husband has gone through periods where he spend hours on the computer, leaving me alone. It hurts. I spoke to him and he has cut down considerably and spends time with me. You can turn this around, your wife loves you and wants you. That is fantastic news A but she is lost in how to capture your old romance and bond with you. Try the list tactic as I advised, but also add a list of things to do together. I often sit through stuff my H likes but I dont, and visa versa! Try dating each other, have no expectations on one another. Good luck

[ApplesauceNinja]

Nuala, I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate it, but I think there's
something about the situation with my mom that I didn't make clear.

I do not take her side over my wife's. I think my wife is right in her stance
toward my mom. My mother is...emotionally fragile, to put it mildly. She
had a horrible childhood in which she endured indignities (understatement)
that no child should go through.

In her early adulthood, she served in the Army, during which her entire
squad was accidentally sprayed with some sort of defoliant chemical.
The chemical made a lot of them terribly sick, and actually killed one
of her friends. It all but destroyed one of my mom's lungs. She
was deathly ill when she met my dad, who befriended her and began
to romance her. She fell in love with him.

Then, she proceeded to spent 25 years with my father, an alcoholic. My dad loved
his booze more than her or me. I was, as a teenager, to my mom much like I was to
my wife for the first years of our marriage. I shut my mom out.

Because my father only had time for his beer (he was a beer drunk), he
had no time for her. She worked like two men to keep our home together.
She wanted me to have my father in my life, though in hindsight it might
have been better for both of us had she left him and taken me with her.
By the way, I must make it known that my dad was a happy drunk. He
never hit my mom or anything like that.

My dad suffered from another addiction as well - wanderlust. He was never
happy no matter where we were. To that end, we moved. A lot. My
mom left two great jobs with a bright future to accommodate his need to
move. She did this all in the name of keeping my dad in my life.

My mother had nobody to talk to. Nobody to lean on. Nobody to share her
thoughts and feelings with. And all this for 25 long years before she finally
could no longer take it. She has since married a wonderful guy who loves
her and treats her very well.

However, all the years of isolation and such led my mom to a complete and
utter nervous breakdown from which she has never fully recovered. She
is a very strong personality, and she insists on having things her way.
She cannot tolerate being disagreed with (even over the most trivial
of issues) and because of that we have had some serious verbal confrontations.

She tries to help, and means well, in her own way. But, she doesn't recognize
boundaries. She snoops and pries in my own home, and my wife, who went
along with this for years in the name of keeping the
peace, went along with it. However, when we bought our first home,
my mom actually became enraged with both of us because we weren't
decorating our home as quickly as she would've liked.

Every single day, my mom had some new criticism to offer. She'd berate
me to my wife, and my wife to me. It all came to a head one day.
My wife then finally laid her cards on the table in a very diplomatic way.
She didn't yell or call names. She merely said that her help over the
years, while appreciated, was never asked for. And, she informed my
mom that she needed to recognize that she and I are adults, and are
therefore capable of making our own decisions.

The two of them haven't gotten along since, and that is my mom's fault.
But, as I've said, my mom is not mentally well, so making concessions is
not in her nature to do. Especially given that she believes she is 100%
in the right.

Well, I do take my wife's side in this. I think my mom needs to lay off,
and I've told her this. I do love my mother. You're right. I love her
very much. I think that's only natural. But I love my wife as well.
And, I haven't and won't make the mistake of choosing my mother over
her. (especially given that my wife is in the right)

Now, as far as the video games go, I very rarely play them anymore.
I'm serious. I spend maybe, collectively, about 90 minutes a week gaming,
and that's usually on my day off, when my wife is at work.

We are both in college, and trying to make better a better life for ourselves
and our son. Doing that full time and taking care of our darling little boy
doesn't leave a lot of free time. I just want to spend some of that free
time with her, but that's getting harder to do when she spends so much
time with her *rude name omitted* friend.

Oh, as a side note - I never developed the taste for alcohol which seems
to plague the men of my family. I can't stand booze. Nasty stuff.
And my dad was, at his core, a very good man, but his weakness
for booze robbed him of what he could have been. And, we
tried until we were blue in the face to get him to admit to and
seek treatment for his addiction.

In the end, it destroyed his body, and he died almost two years
ago.

[Raymond]

One of the things one has to be careful of is a spirit of control operating from the mother over the son. This means he thinks he cannot make decisions without her advice. In affect she has never cut the apron strings. I hope this is not your problem but it is something that can ruin a marriage and has to be broken by loving her but not allowing the control to come over.

Raymond