Please, I need help, not judgement...

[paty]

I don't expect a kind reply to this post, but I need to talk very badly, so hope that some of you will try and look beyond the actual actions I performed, which I already know, are not easily understandable, let alone forgivable...

I’m and Italian 40 years old “girl”. Two years ago, after what I thought had been 10 blissful years of marriage, I became attracted by a friend that I used to run with (we belong to a running group). Besides running together, we had exchanged email addresses and started chatting on computer, thus getting to know and appreciate each other more and more. Nothing physical happened for about a year. Let me tell you, before I go on, that for 13 years, together with my husband, I belonged to a very strong religious community (Latter Day Saints). Our whole life turned around the church, but I was happy about it. My husband’s job kept him out of town during the day. We hadn’t had children, notwithstanding all our attempts (included in vitro fertilization and adoption, for which we were supposed to wait two more years). Anyway, when I figured out I had fallen in love with A. I candidly talked about it with my husband: probably, had he shown some jealousy, things might have ended differently, but he acted as if I were ill, and in a way I felt myself as if it were sort of a bug that I couldn’t get rid of. In the end, I decided to take a trip abroad and spend a month with friends belonging to the same religious group, also getting psychological help. When I came back I though I was whole again, but the very next day I felt compelled to go and find A. He had had a rotten month himself, unsuccessfully trying to forget me, so in the end things got even worse and our relationship became also physical, leading, in about 6 months, to breaking up with our spouses and going to live together. Nevertheless, things haven’t been exactly perfect since then: daily living together brought up the sides of our personalities that hadn’t shown during our “perfect story”, but the main reason was, and still is, that I can’t help but live with huge feelings of guilt for having abandoned a man that loved me with all his heart and adored whatever I did, plus my religion, whose standard I wasn’t living up to anymore. I actually don’t miss neither of them, I just feel like sh** because of what I did: this makes me act childlike toward A: on one side I feel that he’s all that is left in my life and cling to him constantly, making him feel pressed and breathless; on the other hand, I constantly feel that I should end our relationship, but I love him deeply: it’s just that I can’t live this story in a relaxed, serene way. I’m aware that in any case things could go back to what they used to be, but still I can’t help acting the way I do (feeling bad, making him sense it, and, thus, questioning our relationship and putting it to trial). I need his CONSTANT attention and love, to be cuddled constantly, and if, for a day, I feel like he’s not paying attention to me, I start making up stories that hopefully will get him jealous, so that he’s interested in me again. But these things only make him angry… I didn’t use to be that way with my husband at all, but after all my husband was dependent on my love as much as I’m now dependent on my new partner’s love (infact I find myself saying and doing many things that my husband used to tell me, live “I need you”, or “I can’t live without you”). I got to the conclusion that I’m codependent, but is it possible to start being such from one day to the other? What really confuses me is that I had great parents, who loved and took care of me, but I know I lack self confidence and self esteem, all the same. Please, help me.

[Annie2]

Hi,
That's quite a story. I certainly wouldn't judge you. Actually I think you did what many probably haven't. You told your husband. I am so sorry he treated you as though you had an illness instead of seeing it as a problem within your marriage. Perhaps he could too have made the decision to have worked on things. I'm not saying what you did was right, because I think you've realised it wasnt'. What I mean is, that you did try and you were honest at that point.
I'm not surprised you feel dependent on A. I would imagine all you have done together and been through would make him seem like the only one who really understands you. Have you tried talking to him. Even counselling together? You were so honest in your post about how you feel and what you do. I really had a sense that you really weren't happy but weren't sure what to do about it. I think you've been brilliant the way you honestly identified what is wrong, that must have been hard to write that and re-read it.
I hope others will post useful advice (I always say this....never have much myself). Please keep posting, hopefully it will help.
Take care,
Annie xx

[paty]

:)
Thank you so much Annie,
You can't imagine how much your words meant to me!!
It's terrible to be able and see what your problem is (lack of self esteem and self confidence, lots of feelings of guilt ecc.) and not being able to cope with these feelings and get over them, in order to live a decent and serene life.
I rationally know that probably should be able to get some time by myself, in order to first overcome or solve my problems and then get involved in a relationship, but I TRULY love A and wish I could make this relationship work. For instance, yesterday I thought I had taken a great step ahead and today I took 10 behind... :(
I thought I'd share with you something that I'm proud of myself for. http://s4.images.proboards.com/cheesy.gif
Yesterday A. met his wife to settle things between them and set an appointment with an attorney for the divorce.
Of course, when he came back home last night you could tell he had had a difficul day, that old memories had taken a toll on him and that talking to her (they hadn't talked in about a year, after he had left home) hadn't been easy. It's not that he has feelings left for her, but 24 years of marriage can't be blown off in a day, and you could tell from his expression.
Well, I surprised myself by being exactly what I wanted to be: understanding and kind. I listened to him for about 2 hours (he desperately needed to talk: about his past, his regrets for the lack of intimacy with his daughter, his regrets about what he could have done better as a husband and a father, ecc.)
This morning he thanked me and told me how mature I had been and how much he had appreciated my role as a companion and a friend. I' WAS SO HAPPY!!!

Then, today some small gossip from people about our relationship made me overreact, we started fighting and thus I destroyed all the great work I had done yesterday. I just wonder if I'm secretly trying to destroy this relationship! HELP!!!!!

[Annie2]

Hi Paty,
I'm so glad you posted back.
I think we've all done what you did today. You were mature and you were brilliant but it must have left you exhausted. I think when we 'try' and do the mature and the brilliant when really we want to have comfort too it leaves you feeling vunerable. You too needed a bit of comfort after he had seen his wife but maybe it wasn't the best time to have got it and maybe it would have come later. You can't undo what you've done but you could try and explain it to him. Tell him you meant ever 'understanding' word that you said and you took on all of his feelings but put your own aside to do that but then your OWN feelings surfaced due to silly gossip. Apologise to him and explain, that's mature and brilliant too.
Don't give yourself such a hard time. This has been understandably a rollercoaster for you too. You don't sound as though you are doing anything unusual or strange!!! You sound as though you need assurance and love because everything is so different. It's not been that long since all of this happened.
I think when you say you need a break you sound as though you 'think' that's what you need but maybe not want. I reckon it would take one heck of a strong committment and great strength to do that for yourself. It's not something that you would immediately feel better for and you'd feel worse than you do now to begin with. What I'm trying to say is, give yourself more time.
Have you thought about seeing a counsellor? It's brilliant to be able to privately chat all these things through without worrying that you'll be judged.
Take care Paty. Post again.
Annie xxxx

[paty]

Ehi, Annie, you sound like a very wise person, and, for sure, you know how have people feel better!
Well, I guess that counseling would probably be the best solution for my problems, even though my expenses for my divorce aren't leaving with a lot of money either.
I've also thought to buy the book "codependency no more", since I've heard a lot about it. I could order it online (I live in Italy and it's not been translated yet into Italian): infact, I seriously start thinking that codependency is one of my problems and would like to know more about it and see what I can do while I save enough to start a therapy session.
I'm also going to try and find some further source of interest: sports, yoga, ecc., even though I don't feel very motivated.
A and I have the kind of relationship that takes much of our time: infact, I work as a school teacher and right after school I'm busy with house chores, preparing lunch, spending some time with him, ecc. Plus, we spend a lot of time on the phone while he's at work (he owns a little store).
The rest of my time is devoted to my family.
Then, as you can see, it's not easy to cut some time for myself, but I'll try and do my best to do so, in order to find more self fullfillment and, so, hopefully, more self esteem and self confidence.
Well, thank you again and, please, feel free to exchange any concern of yours: I feel so much in owe with you, that I wish I could help with anything.
Have a good day (here it's actually 10.54 p.m., but...)
Paty

[paty]

Hi Annie,
A and I made up our minds: we decided to take some time apart so that I can figure out what I really want and cope with all the unresolved problems and feelings I'm still struggling with.
I know I can always count on him for help, but I'll truly try to leave him alone, in order for both of us to clarify our minds.
I'll also try and find a counselor, perhaps in a short while...
In the meanwhile, please say a little prayer for me or just think of me: I hope so badly to be able to resist and, by so doing, helping at least him, if not myself.
He deserves more than a disturbed person, or, to say the least, someone who doesn't even know anymore what and who she is.
Wish me good luck: I need it very badly.
Ciao
Paty
P.S. Today I'll go back to my own house (we used to live in his) and there I've no internet, so I could be a little slow in replying your eventual posts, but I have access to internet from work, so, please, KEEP IN TOUCH!!!! I need you more than ever!!!!

[IcingOnTheMoon]

Hi Paty!
Rough time lately, eh? You poor girl. I think Annie has given excellent advice and support...as she usually does!
I know what you're going through as far as the feelings of guilt for your past. It seems to me that I just can't let go of things I've done. I haven't murdered anyone, or anything like that, but I have been unfaithful in a relationship (not my current marriage though!), and I've certainly learned my lesson. I now have a great husband who I love with all my heart. I don't know what I'd do without him. I tend to do the "self-sabbotage" thing. Where as soon as I get things "in order" and start feeling good about myself, I screw it up. I don't study for a test when I know I should and have no excuse not to (I'm in college full time), or I get all geared up to quit smoking....for the millionth time....and as soon as I feel like I have it under control, what do I do?? Buy another pack, of course! I've learned that people do things like that because subconsciously they feel they're not worthy to feel good about themselves....So how do we overcome it?? I guess I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone with the feelings of guilt. I'm there too, and working on it!