Planning to leave

[kaye09]

Oh God I can't believe Im writing this.

I want to leave my husband.

I have posted here about communication etc and am supposed to be trying to make things work. The thing is though, I thought that as we got on with things my feelings for him would return.

I just feel compelled to get out. He is not a bad person. He does not treat me badly. Its just that he has gradually become isolated from pretty much everything else in my life.

I have completely shocked him over the last couple of months by revealing how unhappy I have become, but I honestly think that the idea of working on it is just false hope.

What would be worse. 'ripping' the plaster off, or going through counselling (not that I can get him to go anyway), months of 'trying' when deep down I just don't feel any connection to him.

I know love changes, lust leaves and gets replaced with care, teamwork, shared responsibility, all the great things about building a life together... these things have not happened for me.

I know now that I would never want to have children with him as, when we hit problems, I have felt like I've been the one dealing with them alone and then dragging him along behind.

Whats more, I have not dare to let myself think like this, but once I have everything has become clear.

I can't think of anything he could do or say that would make me feel like our marriage is worthwhile. How awful does this read.

Im sorry. I just feel so dispondant and empty now. This would be such a shock to him. I don't know what the hell to do next.

I know there will be people on here who have been through similar experiences. I wish I wasn't in this situation. I wish things were different, but there you go :o(

[outoftheblue]

Well done for being honest with yourself. Putting it all on here has maybe made it seem more real to you, but if it is how you really feel (all the time not just cos you're feeling blue today) then you owe it to yourself and to him to be as honest with him.

If you are really so miserable and feel you can never have feelings for him then the marriage sadly should end before you end up hating and hurting each other too much.

If you can't talk to him then write him a letter explaining exactly how you feel. Of course it will be painful for both of you, but there is no point in carrying on if you genuinely feel the marriage is over.

Cxx

[deadletteroffice]

Kaye - you've reached the point my wife reached. Have you read 'The Walk Away Wife' on the www.divorcebusting.com (http://www.divorcebusting.com) web site?

I won't make any outrageous claims, but I have a hunch, now it's too late and you want to leave, your leaving will make your husband wake up and attend to the things he got wrong. He may not, but it's common that we stupid blokes do just this - but you may have to actually leave for this to happen, because he needs the shock to wake up. Currently he doesn't actually believe you'd leave, no matter what you might say.

[Desperate]

Kaye, I haven't read your previous posts, so don't know what efforts - or lack of - have been undertaken by you, or your H to try and get your marriage back on track.

Have you stopped to think how you would feel if your H was with another woman? Right now, you have been honest and said you feel the marriage is past the point of fixing, from your perspective anyway. Fine. But are you sure, in your heart of hearts, that this is how you really feel? This is why I ask how you would feel if he were with another woman. Let's say you split up and divorce....he goes through the emotional hell most of us on this forum have experienced. Then he slowly recovers, finds another woman, rediscovers happiness, love and a will to live life to the fullest again. You bump into him somewhere, with his new partner...he is happy and you two are nothing but a previous chapter. Would you be happy for him, or would you suddenly feel sad that you never worked on resolving not just your marital issues, but your feelings towards your H? Perhaps even feeling jealous or a little bitter?

I am trying to address "hindsight", so that years later, you don't say to yourself, "in hindsight, I wish I had done things differently and not been so rash in leaving my marriage and the man I had committed to.".

You are not bad for feeling the way you do. It happens in almost all lengthy marriages at some point. I won't preach to you about marriage being about love and not about being "in love". It takes two to make a marriage last and if it has reached this point, you really need to take time out to try and understand why.

Your H may not have delivered to you what you expected from him and you may well feel that he is isolated from much of your life. But why has this happened? Is it because he hasn't listened to your cries for a better husband, a better marriage that is more fullfilling - or is it because you haven't communicated this to him clearly enough?

I have never supported separation as a means to resolving, or contemplating marital issues but in your case, it really seems like a logical option. You may find that you have a clearer understanding of how you truly feel when he is not in your life at all for a few months.

If you finally conclude that you have zip feelings for him and that you never will, then to continue your marriage would be a waste of your life - and his!! But be very sure that you feell the way you claim. I have no doubt that he will be devastated if you leave him but, he will almost certainly eventually recover, scarred possibly but alive and kicking and seeking a new partner. Can you look to the future years and say the same for yourself?

[kaye09]

Thanks guys. I know how important it is to really think this through. I need to know I have made the right choice if I go.

You are right to point out that my own communication skills need to be put under the microscope, but I have been trying so hard, including more recently coming on here and trying to get things in perspective. Even when Ive been dying not to say anything I'll think carefully about it and somehow get it out. And it makes no difference.

One of the things we 'communicated' was that before we got married H would cook/do housework 50-50 with me. Now I do everything. So he said. 'thats, good. Its something specific I can work on' That was three weeks ago and he cooked tea once. Ive tried addressing that again and got shouted at. Im not talking about a candlelit dinner here. Shoving a frozen pizza in the oven would be enough. The other night I got held up at work, phoned him at 8 to say Id be home in half an hour. He asked if Id eaten and I said no. When I got in at 8:30 I started cooking dinner. I did tell him it wasn't on but again, nothing. I've tried getting him to help me cook something and got laughed at. Thats just one example.

He has no financial responsibility in the relationship. All debt is in my name, mobile phones, etc. He doesnt have any credit history, not even a credit card. Its not because he's loaded...its because Im up to the eye balls. A lot of it was generated while I was training and not earning a full wage and he was unemployed but didn't sign on for nine months.

I am responsible for the 'woman's work', then when the garden needs doing I recruit my brother or the neighbours kids. Ive actually had friends drive 25 miles to come and help me while H stayed inside on his computer.

I approached him about the financial situation about four months ago. Asked him if there was a reason he was worried about taking any of it on. He said no but still nothing has happenes. He blames it on the fact he's busy...everyones busy.

Something has got to give. And talking isnt working. I have somewhere I can go. I am scared but life is too short to keep going round in circles. If it prompts an improvement for us then great. If not, then I guess we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it.
xx

[poppy]

Simply Kaye, if you are planning to leave, and I think this is what you want but can't quite yet face the prospect, you do need to quietly and quickly put the finances in order and make sure his share of the debts fall on his shoulders. otherwise starting a new life will have added problems for you. I wish you well. Life's far too short to waste it. So don't.

[kaye09]

Last night I told him I need to sort my head out, and while he's busy with other things I am just getting more and more frustrated...can't help it.

I said I wanted to go for a few days, giving him the time he needs and me the space I need.

He said whatever benefit I would get from going it would have the opposite effect on him. Then came out with a few things about it all being in my head and theres nothing he can do about it...well, if thats the case then surely thats even more of a reason for me to have the space that I have asked for.

He told me to do what I like. I went. I then got a phone call with him screaming down the line that if I didnt come back now the marriage is over. That I am completely selfish and unreasonable. I tried to stay calm and told him that I would be home in a few days.

I was driving so didn't answer the phone for a while. I had 30 missed calls and answerphone mesgs saying he couldn't stay in the house without me. That he had nowhere else to go so he would end up in a bus shelter or similar. He txt my sister and two friends saying that if I got in touch with them they were to tell me that if I didn't go home then he would move out and that it would be my decision to end the marriage. I rang him back and he was sobbing so I returned.

He has asked that I give him till after the weekend and then if I feel the same way I should go.

I should have stayed away last night. I should have just taken the 'out'.

Oh God its such a mess

[outoftheblue]

I'm afraid he does sound very controlling, this may be just his nature or due to huge insecurity on his part. From all that you say it seems he is quite a lazy man and expects so much from you whilst giving nothing in return. It is very unusual for a man to have no responsibilities in a relationship be they financial or more practical commitments. If he won't even share the chores such as cooking and is prepared to sit back while others work in his garden then he seems very lazy indeed.

However, it may be he doesn't even see things that way. You both really need to discuss these serious issues with a counsellor together or if he refuses a mutual friend. Your relationship cannot continue with the huge amount of resentment you are feeling and his emotional blackmail.

Does he come from a happy loving family or do you suspect one of his parents may have shown him this sort of behaviour in the past?

The fact that he has driven you away but then wants to blame you for the marriage being over shows he really does want everything his way. You say he doesn't treat you badly, but I would suggest from the evidence you offer he actually does.

He clearly needs you and begging you to stay until the weekend is proof. But the reason he needs you is the issue, is it cos he needs to control you, or because you provide for him and allow him to walk over you? I would suggest that you should only agree to stay and work at the marriage if he similarly does the same and that would have to include a commitment to counselling to get to the bottom of the issues that are bothering both of you. If he won't agree to that then you can tell him that he is the one that has ended the marriage and not you!

[poppy]

I agree, he is very controlling and also very manipulative. Kaye. You need to think and decide about what YOU want. From then on, everything else will become clearer and you will know what to do. Counselling may help if that's the route you want to take. But I do read that you want out. It is a pity you came back the other night, but we all do it. Absolutely no criitcism intended. Think about yourself first. Until you have some clearer ideas about your own needs and future, you can't move forward and you only leave yourself open to his manipulative character which will confuse and de-rail you all the way. You do probably need to take some time out away from him.

Last thought. Talk to family and good friends and use their support. Have you thought perhaps of going to counselling on your own? Often talking to someone who's emotionally uninvolved helps enormously. Wishing you well.

[Desperate]

I suspect he has, for too long, taken your marriage - and you, for granted. I suspect he never really thought you would ever leave. I suspect now, that he is fast realising that something is seriously wrong.

Reading between the lines, despite his faults, I suspect he does love you but, he has become very complacent over the years. Sometimes we need a real scare to understand what we may be losing, to realise that we haven't put sufficient effort into the relationship, to a point where it becomes unsustainable for the other party.

Unfortunately, this wake-up call may be too late for him, based on the description of how you are feeling.

Communication breakdown. That's one of the leading problems when it comes to marital break-ups. "I tried telling you, you never listened"! The response, "You never did, sure you complained that I never helped around the house etc, but you never told me you were unhappy with the marriage, unhappy with me!"

The problem with communication is that just because you have told someone something, in a way you believe should be understood, doesn't mean that the recipient understood that communication in the same way, or the consequenes of not taking action to rectify the issues.

The manner in which your H is now behaving does indicate that he has felt he has had control over the marriage. It also indicates that he has been selfish in his expectations of the marriage. But it does not mean that he doesn't love you - and that is important to understand.

Stressed, or unhappy marriages can be transformed. Happiness can be re-discovered, as can love. This notion that, when you fall out of love with your partner, that love will never return, that it's over - is NOT TRUE. I personally know of relationships that have recovered and of broken marriages that resulted in divorce and re-marriage betwen the ex-spouses within a few years of the divorce. This has even been the case when one of the spouses had completely given up all hope of believing they could ever love, or be happy with their partner.

You do need time out. You need to get away from your current environment to see how you would really feel, on your own and without your H in your life. You need to do this for as long as it takes to understand how you truly feel, whether this be 2 weeks or 2 months.

Getting your husband to buy into this will be extremely difficult. He will feel that he is losing you and, by allowing you to leave to "have space", that he will lose you forever. He will probably start reacting in a childish and selfish manner, text messages, phone calls, communications about how depressed and sad he is, tears, ranting and raving, blaming....it will all be about how he is feeling. Expect this. Again, this does not make him a bad person. He has possibly become used to getting his own way. Because he doesn't understand the depth of your feelings, he may believe that using the guilt trick may make you reconsider leaving. Don't! If you feel this bad, the only chance your marriage has of a future is if you are able to get away and give all of this time to mull over.

My guess is that if you now asked him to attend a marriage counceling session, he would agree. If he does, use that session to tell him that you are taking time out and it's not open for discussion. Tell him that if he loves you, he will respect this request and leave you alone for the time required. Get him to understand the importance of this, of just how bad you feel and that if he doesn't comply, your marriage may well be doomed. Get the mediator to help you in this regard.

If you decide thereafter that you want to end the marriage, you can at least say that you assessed your feelings and are confident you have arrived at the correct conclusion. You owe it to yourself and your H to get this decision right...it's a big decision.

Finally, at least your reasons for being unhappy do not involve another man, unlike many here who have had their partners leave due to an extra-marital affair and then go on to blame the failed marriage on all the points you have raised to date. Good luck.

[kaye09]

H got sent home from work yesterday as he was spending the entire time trying to get in touch with me. I got texts saying 'why are you doing this to me' etc.

I managed to get hold of his sister who went to find him and calm him down. Talking to her helped him realise that what I was asking for was not unreasonable, but he said he was panicing and, although he now knew I needed the time, he wanted to see me properly for half an hour...not ranting...promising to try and stay calm.

He says the week will be too hard. That he cant see himself getting through it, so I have told him we can arrange to have conversations at specific times...not too often...if that will help. Hes meeting me for lunch today.

I have told him I cant make any promises that everything will be ok. That I don't know whether I want to be with him.

There is still the option of counselling but I would be doing that because I feel sorry for him. He has completely fallen to pieces and I only asked for a week.

I am very worried about him. I could take the pain away by going 'there there, Im definately coming back' but that would be a lie. I don't know.

He suddenly burst into tears and told me that he was really glad I had my ears pierced and they look lovely. I did that three weeks ago. He said its the biggest wake up call hes ever had and he's terrified of loosing me, but still reluctant to go to counselling.

We also talked about the fact he depends on me for so much, in every aspect of his life. I am not terrified of the potential change in the same way he is. Apparently I am his world. I had to remind him about the way he has been speaking to me recently and ask why. He says he just doesn't know...that 'I feel like a complete bastard'. I told him he isnt and that people need to learn these skills just like they learn any others.

But this is now the situation in my head

1) I have managed to make this break and it was damn difficult, I dont want to have to do it again in three months/ a year etc.

2) Is he scared of loosing me or is he daunted and overwhelmed by the massive change it would be to his lifestyle?

3) You do not tell someone who is 'everything' to you to f**k off, that they are stupid and pathetic. No matter how screwed up you are. That is past my understanding and boundaries

4) Is there a way I can support him to build a life seperate to me? This could have two potential outcomes as I see it;
a - Him working on himself as a person will rekindle the love I had for him that has been damaged over the last year
b - He will be in a better place to move forward if we stay apart

5) Are my actions just giving him false hope and wasting everyones time when I know I should just go for good?

I have sought support from my 2 friends and my sister and spoken to my dad. My dad said that it would be sad as we made our wedding vows for better/worse, that he wants me to be happy but doesn't want me to regret anything so try to get H into counselling. The others just think I should leave.

Hs sister believes her brother genuine and has her fingers crossed that I will give him the time to have another go.

:o( Im so confused x

[kaye09]

Sorry 'desperate', I was writing my post as yours went up.

A lot of what you said makes sense. A week is not going to be enough. I don't think I can tell H that until hes got through this one as he seems so fragile.

Im so glad I found this forum. My head is all over the place.

[deadletteroffice]

Kaye,
All their advice is valid - My wife left, along with all the same worries you have. In the end she decided that I would either get through it or not but she couldn't carry on taking responsibility for me.

I got through it, grew up, took responsibility and made changes. We're now talking again and I think we both hope that we can sort things out, although we're not there yet.

At the end of the day Kaye, marriage is mutual support, not him leaning on you. My wife was right to leave and I will never blame her for it. If your H does and simply gives up on life, then he is not enough in control of himself to be of any use to you. If your marriage is not a two way street (and it sounds like it isn't) then you have to take charge of your life for you. What your H does with that situation is up to him.

[Waterbearer]

Just thank GOD (or whatever you believe , if any) that you don't have children with him ! Remember this , "you can lead a heart to love , but you can't make it fall " I know from experience but that's my stupidity .Of course , I ,we have 3 wonderful kids but that only makes matters worse .Trust me , (or not ) it CAN get ALOT WORSE ! You two don't have kids ,split now while no one innocent gets ruined and find a real man that appreciates you for WHO you are,not what you can give him . If you care for an explanation (if it will help)of how I know , feel free to contact me but I'll warn ya I'm brutally honest but with the best of intentions . After all what is ANY KIND of relationship if it ain't built on TRUST. You may despise the truth but at least if you walk away crying you'll trust & respect the person .(my opinion & belief)

That said ,
Prayers&best wishes to ya!

[Desperate]

Kaye, I would be very careful about taking advice from people telling you to leave him now, or to stay with him. Listen to neither.

You must do what you feel to be right in your heart of hearts. Right now, you have a definate feeling of apathy towards your marriage. However, to get a very clear picture of your true feelings, you absolutely must take time out. The human sub-conscious is very powerful and often drives us to make incorrect and rash decisions, leading us in the wrong direction for what appears at the time to be the right reasons.

Your husband is going to have a hell of a time understanding (1) that you are so miserable (2) that you need time away from him and won't let him work on the marriage. (3) that this has probably come as a bolt out of the blue to him. (but not for you) I would suggest you consider printing off all the posts to your thread and get him to read this when you meet with him.

I have been in the position he is about to face. The only difference is that my wife was having an affair. I was not a perfect husband. I too became complacent at times, I had my faults. But I was also loving, caring and loved my ex wife more than life itself. My wife justified her affair and leaving me by raising all the negatives about my contribution to the marriage. Your situation is different. Right now, you want to leave your marriage, not because of another man, but because you feel dead in the marriage.

When my wife left, I was told she just needed space, that her affair was a one-nighter. 2 years later and I know now that her affair was ongoing for a year plus, with a married man - with 3 children. But because I initially didn't know the depths of her betrayal, I was desperate to save our marriage.

So, I have a very good understanding of how your H will feel and the sort of reactions you can expect. Like I said, this does not make him a bad person...he is hurting and is in shock and will say and do very stupid and foolish things. The problem for you though is that the more he shows his emotions, sheds tears, gets upset, begs for you to stay, keeps calling you etc.....the more he pushes you away. Not only that, but your respect for him will deteriorate, fact!!!!! It is a hell of a situation to be in for both of you.

If your H gets to read this, the best advice I can give him is to give you space and time, on the understanding that there are absolutely no guarantees at the end. You are not promising to come back to the marriage. What you are offering him is ONLY an opportunity to have time out to reflect on your true feelings, to understand if how you feel right now is an accurate representation of the true situation. Address the issue of "false hope".

If your H has any hope of you wishing to continue the marriage, he must let you go, for as long as it takes, without any contact whasoever!!! That old phrase, absence makes the heart grow fonder can only be potentially realised if he is ABSENT from your life. It will be tough for him, no contact, hurting and knowing that there are no guarantees at the end. There is no sweetner for this I am affraid. It is what it is and the best advice I can give him whilst you are gone is not to sit at home, feeling depressed. Get out, keep active, physically and mentally, eat well and fight negative thoughts and/or depression. Give your wife time...let her go lovingly and try to grin a bare the situation with decorum and dignity. It may not change the outcome. But moping around, hurting, depressed, feeling sorry for yourself, these qualities will do great damage if they are allowed to become a burden to your wife. That's one sure way to put a nail in the coffin.

With regards to his being terrified of how this will change his life style - of course he's worried!!! But that too is 100% natural and understandable. Does it mean that this is the only reason he is scared of losing you? No!

People share so much together when they are married. And it's not just that you always paid the bills, did the shopping, ironing, vacuuming, booked the holidays, arranged the doctors appointments etc. More importantly, it's the intimate secrets that we only ever share with our partner. Those dark, deep secrets that we are ashamed of perhaps but which our partner accepts and embraces as part of the person they love. The fear of losing that companion is awful.

Kaye, I don't know if you have ever been through a previous divorce. But I can assure you that it is one of the most painful experiences you will ever face in this life. The partner who wants out finds it very hard. But the partner who doesn't stares the devil in tne eyes, literally. So please always bear this in mind when you are dealing with your H. Understand he may behave in desperation, so try and be empathetic. But look after you too and make your communications very clear so as to leave no doubt as to the current situation and what may lie ahead.

[outoftheblue]

What a kind and sensitive response from Desperate. I think he talks a lot of sense and from one who has been in a similar situation.

Kaye you came on here for support and you've got it in spades. Your H does still sound controlling, but that may be just through desperation at the thought of losing you and facing the world on his own.

I was/am in the same place as him - I thought I couldn't/wouldn't survive without my H as my rock. I am surviving - just - but managing. I cope without thinking too much of his betrayal or how deeply he has hurt me and some days it is easier than others. As I've said on my thread despite his awful treatment of me and our son I still love him with all my heart and wait for the day when he asks for forgiveness.

Desperate's comments about the more your H clings to you the more you push him away rings so true. Early on I said to my H you can't go I need you, but his direct response was I don't want to be needed which was hurtful to hear (and probably not entirely true,) but he couldn't cope with the responsibility of being needed. I can see that now and have tried very hard to put on a front of being totally together and in control.

You do need space awayfrom him and ultimately so does he. He needs to learn how to survive alone and if he can do that he may be able to bring more to your relationship than he has until now. But from one who is on the other side don't hate him for needing/loving you, try to empathise and together but separately you may eventually find a way to go forward in your marriage.

Good Luck

[kaye09]

Over the weekend things had got so difficult for him that I promised to go home last night, although sleep seperately, and on the understanding that I would leave again in the morning.

We had a really good conversation, but on the back of it I do not feel any more optimistic about our future together.

He has been woken up to the extent that he has started working on other areas of his life, his relationship with his son for one. I have booked a session with a relate councillor for later in the week and he said that, as much as he is dreading it, he is glad we are going.

There were still elements of emotional blackmail in everything yesterday, but I think he knows it isnt working and is getting tired of banging his head against a brick wall. I was a bit concerned when I realised he'd hidden my car keys so I couldn't leave during the night.(not that I was going to) I mentioned that I had misplaced them and he admitted what he'd done and apologised. He keeps saying hes just panicing. I can accept that.

I feel awful for the fact that he asked me so many questions and I kept defering them. Wait till after the counselling, I cant answer that yet. I suppose thats why no contact at all is preferable.

He is now accepting help from his sister, which is a great relief.

As things stand I have left. Neither of us know when, or if I am going back, but we are seeking help. I couldn't kiss him last night like he wanted me to, I couldn't tell him I love him like he wanted me to. I feel heartbroken for him, but couldn't help thinking about all the times I was refused the same by him like it didn't mean anything.

I feel that it would take something massive to bring me back to him now, but that I need to help him understand as much as possible so that he becomes ready to move on in the same way I am. Although that may be ridiculously optimistic.

Never say never eh. I might wake up in love again tomorrow. Although I don't really expect to.