How can I help him find his way home?

[outoftheblue]

Stumbled across this site during one of my many visits to my new best friend Google to find answers to a seemingly unsolvable problem.

I now check this site every day and follow several of the threads whose problems seem similar to mine and am really comforted by the depth of caring and support offered by fellow sufferers or should that be sufferees.

So I am finally taking the plunge and hope someone might befriend me and offer much needed advice and support.............

My husband and I have been very happily married for 20 years and have been best friends and soulmates throughout. We have one fantastic son who is now 17, a straight A* student and we are both very proud of him. We tried unsuccessfully for more children but this never happened despite lots of investigations and IVF, but the 3 of us have made a fantastic team and seem like the perfect family, down to the labrador and Volvo!! Everyone would comment on how good we were together with mutual respect and open displays of affection without being sickly or the sort of couple others are embarassed to be gooseberries alongside. Basically life wasn't perfect, no one's is, but we were doing pretty well and seemed to be smugly avoiding the pitfalls of our contempories or so I thought.

I met my h at work 22 years ago whilst I was recovering from the very sudden death of my fiance. I was not in a place to love again, but my h befriended me and taught me to trust and love again. He promised to always protect and look after me and he has never ever let me down. He would txt or ring several times a day just to touch base and would often buy little presents for me, as I would for him. Nothing big just a fave pack of sweets or something just to say I love you etc. Our love and respect was mutual and obvious.

Five years ago he took the big step to start working for himself, which would mean working away a lot, but after lots of discussions we agreed it would be a good thing as our marriage was strong and it would give us more money to do the things we enjoyed. A fair trade off if you like and although I hated him being away, I just missed his presence, I looked forward to when he came home and always tried to make sure the house etc was tidy, a cup of tea and his meal was waiting and I looked nice (awfully old fashioned I know) so that it was worth him coming home. In fairness he never expected this but after driving a long distance M25 etc for sometimes 3 or 4 hours on top of an 8/10hour day at the office it was the least I could do to say thank you for working so hard for our family.

During the time he has worked away, our son and I have become very close, we live quite a way from family and only have a very few close friends locally. We preferred to wait for h to come home and do things as a threesome. As time has gone on h has become increasingly detached and gradually less communicative. He comes from a family of 'loners' who like their own company and definitely don't discuss feelings etc. and I thought it was just pressure of work and being totally exhausted at weekends. That isn't to say he stopped saying I love you or behaving very differently, he was just stressed with life and no amount of nagging from me to 'ease off' was going to make the difference. I could see he was over-working, everyone could, but like most men he thought he was invincible!

In July 2006 his Dad died suddenly. At 79 not totally a surprise but not expected as he wasn't unwell at the time. My h as the eldest of 4 sons took control and together he and I did most of the arrangements. Other than at the funeral itself I never saw him cry. He can be quite emotional, he annoyed me a bit by crying all through our wedding! cried when our son was born etc. Anyway, after our prebooked holiday in August during which he was understandably quiet and grieving, he went back to working away in September. We were having major building work on the house which lasted for 7 months, his mother was very demanding expecting everyone to acknowledge her grief but she would not acknowledge her sons had lost their Father and during that time our son ruptured his knee and needed surgery. Also our much loved dog died suddenly in February so h would no longer go for long walks to clear his head.

Sorry this thread has got very very long so I'll condense the rest of it. On 26th April he left home leaving a note to say he needed to get his head together. This was 6 weeks before our son's very important AS exams, 7 weeks before our 20th wedding anniversary and 3 weeks after getting a new puppy which HE insisted on getting. A week later he admitted he had been seeing someone else since September. Someone he knew through his work but not someone he worked with. Until April he had only been seeing her once every couple of weeks or so as she lived 2 hrs away from his work. I didn't rant or rave as I thought I might of done I was overwhelmed with love for him and felt sorry for him being so foolish. I asked if he had ever done or wanted to do this before and he was horrified and said no. He says he still loves me and we had a very good marriage but it is now too broken to fix. I have assured him that I can and will forgive him if he wants to be forgiven, but at the moment he says he doesn't know what he wants. He stays in luxury hotels with work during the week (no dingy bedsits of doom for him) and with her at weekends as far as I know. He only has basic stuff with him. Everything that makes him, 'him' is still here as he left them. The book he was reading beside the bed with his spare glasses, all his office paperwork on his desk etc. Golf clubs cricket stuff etc etc all here as if he just popped out. It is like he has died and the old h appears to have done. I just don't know how to find him and to help him find himself again. He is living in a fanstasy world and my son and I are living in limbo waiting for the old h and dad to return, but will he..........

I believe like many of the posters here that he has suffered a break down midlife crisis or whatever. He has dug himself a huge hole and can't face up to getting himself out. It's easier to run away than face up to what he has done and what the old h would consider morally wrong. I don't recognise him anymore and I don't think he recognises himself or can believe what has happened or how he got himself there. There is much more to tell about how he has behaved since April which indicates this is less about the ow and more about his state of mind, but my son has just told me I have gone on far too long and no one will ever read this. Please prove him wrong I need help with this as our world has imploded and we feel helpless.

[Lauz]

Hi & welcome - I'm sorry your going through this as so many of us are too. But we are here to listen to your rant and raving... :)

Unfortunately, all you can do is be patient and wait for him to go through whatever it is he is going through - MLC sounds like it... my h is only 31 and I think going through one too.... he doesn't know what he wants out of life anymore.

In any case, your lucky you have your son to be strong and patient with you. Show you h / dad how much you love him, but give him space. Only he can work this one out.

L.

[Lauz]

You may also find some of this useful...


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Another possibility is that of a midlife crisis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-life_crisis
http://midlifecrisisforum.com/6/ubb.x?s=3106003104
http://www.pathpartners.com (http://www.pathpartners.com/)
http://fortysixty.invisionzone.com/index.php?act=idx
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=28&page=1
http://lifetwo.com/production/node/20060824-types-of-midlife-crisis

Not everybody has a Mid Life Crisis -- most people go through a Mid Life Transition. About one third cannot cope with the MLT and it becomes a crisis. "MLT becomes a MLC when it takes on the "self-medication" of affairs, rampant spending, and other such unwise and hurtful behaviour."

MLTs/MLCs are triggered by some life-altering event such as the death of a parent, loss of an important job, onset of menopause, etc; even your children growing up and leaving home... "Empty Nest Syndrome"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_nest_syndrome
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/womenshealth/features/ens.htm
http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/emptynest.html

[AnnieP]

Hello, and welcome! Waffling on here is good for the soul... believe me! and sometimes it is just so good to get it all out!
Not sure if you have managed to wade through my mammoth thread, but if you haven't, I too am on my own at present after my H has decided he needs space to decide what he wants, followign an affair and a realisation that he "No longer loves me". We have been married 16 years and together for 21.
The limbo is awful. Waiting for a decision which 1: may never come or 2: be the one we do not wish for, is truly awful. Being powerless is not nice.
I am trying very hard to get a grip on my own life and make plans for me, but it is hard on a minute by minute basis, as he is constantly in my thoughts.
I wish you much strength and hope you continue to post on here..... welcome to the club!

[outoftheblue]

Thanks. I have been following your threads and have really felt for you. It was your post Anniep that kept me coming back as our situations seemed so similar. The only difference seems to be that my h says he still loves me and has said 'we still have a lot going for us' But while he continues to hide with ow he is not facing what he has done and won't give me the chance to help him work through whatever is going on within him at the mo.

The reason I feel it may be depression/midlife crisis/overwork etc is that this is so out of character for him he is normally so happy go lucky irritatingly optimistic and positive. But at various times over the last few months when he has been in contact he has said things like 'I feel dead inside' 'I'm at my lowest ebb' 'I don't feel I belong here'(at our home) and feels nothing for the garden which used to be his pride and joy - a connection with his Dad who was a horticulturalist. Many of the plants have moved with us from our previous homes and some he specially sourced from nurseries with his Dad. I was never allowed a say in the garden but performed the role of labourer a source of teasing rather than tension within us. But now I'm in charge of this big garden maintaining it probably not to his standards and he really doesn't care what I do with it sooo not like him.

If he is so 'happy' with this ow surely he wouldn't be feeling dead inside?

[calmfornow]

Hi outoftheblue,
From what you say it does all sound like depression linked to his father's death. Regarding the ow, she is just a sticking plaster! It goes without saying that you love and care for him deeply but I'm afraid there is nothing that you can do for him at the moment. He sounds deeply depressed but he has to realise at some point that he needs help. You cannot do this for him. He has to find his own way. All you can really do is listen to him if /when he needs to talk. Not much help from me I'm afraid but do keep posting. There are lots of good people on here who can give you good advice and a shoulder to cry on.
Take care,
cfn.

[Topsy47]

Hi Outoftheblue

Welcome to the forum! I am relatively new myself but its great to unload on here and everyone is so lovely.

I have been with my H for 10yrs, married for nearly 4 and he walked out several weeks ago. If you look at some of my previous posts, you'll see that I think this all stems from the death of his mother and, like you, I don't really recognise this alien that seems to have taken over my lovely H.

The worst, and most frustrating, part of all is that I dont think there is anything really you can do except allow time and space for as long as you are willing to do so. I made the mistake yesterday of pushing him to answer questions on whether he thought he might change his mind and he was even more adamant that he wouldnt than he was when he first left. Part of me feels that there will be a time when he truly regrets breaking our marriage up but I also feel that it might take him a long time to get there and by then it might be too late.

As others have said, you have a lovely son and it sounds like you will both really support each other through this dreadful time.

Good luck
Topsy

[outoftheblue]

Thank you to all have replied so far I really appreciate the support and I know so many of you are in very similar situations. If you had told me a year ago when my h, son and I were holidaying happily on Florida's Gulf coast that I'd be where I am now I would have scoffed, because there was no way I was going to become a cliche. I was so smug that my h and I were soulmates and trusted each other implicitly. I even argued with a friend who said she would never allow her husband to work away so much. I pitied her and her insecurity and thought a) I trust my h absolutely and 100%completely and b) What sort of marriage did she have where she could and would forbid her h to work away? No I thought my marriage is soo much better. I obviously never said that but I know I thought it and I feel awful now and think maybe God is punishing me for unkind thoughts and my general smugness.

I would so appreciate a man's opinion on my current situation because try as I might I can only see his behaviour from a female perspective and however I try I can't rationalise it because none of it makes any sense. To just walk away completely from a whole life almost Reggie Perrin style (sorry I'm showing my age here!) when he admits we had a good marriage he still loves me, just in a different way and I have done nothing wrong is just so odd.

[jools]

No I thought my marriage is soo much better. I obviously never said that but I know I thought it and I feel awful now and think maybe God is punishing me for unkind thoughts and my general smugness.I know what you mean. I too was "Mrs Smug". Never been dumped in my life and never expected to be! The punishment thing crossed my mind too - but here's another take on that. We learn and grow through our experiences. so maybe we were meant to receive this lesson to become more understanding and compassionate people. I am a teacher, and i've always pitied children from broken homes - like they were "different" in some way. Well guess what - that's my kids mow! But it's made me a better teacher in a way because I can relate to those children in a way I never could before.
I would so appreciate a man's opinion on my current situation because try as I might I can only see his behaviour from a female perspective and however I try I can't rationalise it because none of it makes any sense. Trouble is, you want to know how your H and my H's minds work. But they're not on this site. And I'm not aware of any like minded men on here either. My H displayed all the classic depression symptoms at the time. His symptoms have got worse in the year since he's been gone (cluster headaches, insomnia etc) so it obviously wasn't the answer to his problems. He used to say he could relate to men who just "disappeared" and began again almost like an insomniac. They definitely have a different mind set to us. Ah well, keep posting. Hopefully you'll have a happy outcome.
Jools X
________
VOYEUR TOILET (http://www.****tube.com/categories/1166/toilet/videos/1)

[outoftheblue]

Hi Jools,
I agree we are here to learn and grow from all our experiences throughout life. But why don't those who truly need it, ie. the cheaters not have to learn and grow too? If they could they would end up better people and hurt others less.

Unlike your h, my h used to be openly scathing about men who cheated and particularly those who betrayed their children. I think he works in an environment where so many people in the office work away, have affairs, get divorced he now thinks it's normal - expected even - to make him one of the lads not just a sad middle aged boringly happily married man!

Maybe as part of MLC he feels he has to try everything before he's too old, he did use the phrase to me 'I'm on a track' and later 'maybe this is just something I've got to do' Sometimes the old h seems to have been taken over by this new alien being who I don't recognise and can't relate to. Some of his comments to me indicate he doesn't always recognise himself either. Really weird one day arrogant and aggressive he knows what he wants and is going to get it and the next day confused and vulnerable.

[jools]

Unlike your h, my h used to be openly scathing about men who cheated and particularly those who betrayed their children.So did mine! Up until a couple of months before his crisis struck he seemed like a different person. One year later and he's still so guilt ridden about what he's done he won't discuss it with anyone. Even mutual friends who see him say that he denies any involvement with anyone else (!) He's in total denial to himself as well as everyone else. Weird! They definitely follow a pattern. His was sparked off by a younger cousin dying and his own discovery of prostate cancer - tho he'll deny that that had anything to do with it. It's a hard nut to crack, that's all I know. But once i'd discovered his betrayal I couldn't see a future for the marriage anyway.
Jools.
________
Fake weed (http://syntheticweed.org)

[Lauz]

So did mine. Always said that he didn't want us to turn into his mum/dad - unhappy in a marriage, staying together for the kids. Said he didn't believe in divorce too.

I'm not really sure what the trigger for my h was. All I can put together is that he started in a job he really liked and the culture of the company he works for is young, single, going out and having a great time and some of that rubbed off on him, got him thinking. I think the other reason may be that we had planned to go home (oz) and settle and start a family this year and that looming made him nervous and realise thats its not what he wants right now. He says he worries about the type of father he will be given the father he had. Another thing he says is that he feels his body is not as "young" as it used to be and he wants to do all the stuff (traveling, hiking, etc.) while he still can before settling to have a family. Now, I am all OK with all of this. I am not in a rush to have kids, but why couldn't he just have told me this 18 months ago and prevent all the resentment, anger and you know the rest! Sometimes I wonder why he is so scared of telling me what he wants. I know his self esteem is low...

[outoftheblue]

So after last night's unexpected phone call from H. I'm in a quandry. He was so nice and normal (ish) that I'm feeling all sorry for him re our son's AS exam results. I know how much he loves our son and vice versa, but as I posted on someone else's thread (poss. Huskypup or Topsy47), son not telling him how he did is son's way of regaining some control.

I explained this to H yesterday, so he asked if I would tell him, without son knowing. I said I was sorry but I really had to respect son on this and as he left six weeks before these exams, son felt he didn't care enough then, so doesn't deserve to know. We also don't want him discussing/being proud with the ow.

Another plus is that H hasn't told people he works for he has left us and they still think he is perfect family man. He has always talked about son's successes and how proud he is of the job I do, to everyone at work. I think it will be quite awkward for him if people ask how son has done and he isn't able to tell them.

Had a txt first thing asking if son was smiley or frowny!! He is so desperate to know it's really hard. Can't quite make out if it's just 'cos he really cares, or because he needs to absolve himself of any blame for poss. stuffing up son's life or so he can look big and take the credit for a clever son?

I txtd back 'a bit smiley - he did ok' But H came straight back with '4 A's??' So he is desperate to know precisely. Son very cleverly said txt back 'Not quite' which is true because he got 5 A's, but H has obviously forgotten the extra subject he took. So H might think he hasn't done so well, which is good and might make him feel bad, when actually he's done better than expected. How long should we keep this up - son wants it to be till he dumps ow, but if we say that maybe he will dig heels in and stay with her longer cos he doesn't like being told what to do.

So many dilemmas - so many pitfalls!!

[jools]

I'm tempted to say "Let him sweat!" Your son's absolutely right and your loyalties should be to him before your H. It would be morally wrong to collude with H behind son's back. Funnily enough, my H left of the day of one of my daughter' ASs last year too! Like I said, their selfish needs come first - despite him previously being the kindest most considerate H and dad ever. She just had her A level results today! He just came to pick my youngest up and I decided to go out to the car just to say "Didn't she do well" - usually I don't even acknowledge him. He looked most uncomfortable and couldn't even look at me. One year on and still riddled with guilt. Ah well. So --- no dilemma for you on this one. It's up to your son.
Jools
________
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[outoftheblue]

Thanks Jools. Glad your daughter did well too. It's a little affirmation for us too that we kept it together enough to get our children through this so we must be good people.

You H must secretly acknowledge that too and that would again make him feel guilty because he's not now part of their succcess and you've shown you are stronger than them for sticking with it and getting the kids through stuff despite everything. This surely must increase his feelings of inadequacy. Also I would interpret your 'Didn't she do well' as a normal comment just for something to say and to show daughter how proud you are of her (and want her dad to say so too), but he may,just may, have heard it as a dig about him and all the things I said above.
Who knows, it might just explain his odd reaction.

Take Care
Cxx

[outoftheblue]

I think maybe my idea that my H thinks son has done badly in exams is correct. Felt sure he would txt son to say well done etc, but son has had nothing. All I had was a txt saying, tell him well done - if you can. I really think he thinks son has stuffed up for the first time in his life and that would definitely have been down to H leaving 6 weeks before them and during study leave he was so depressed he didn't really feel like studying.

Of course this didn't happen 'cos I didn't tell son about ow and just said was having an MLC ha ha ha and he would be back soon and I nagged like crazy to get him to revise.

So here's hoping H has gone up to spend his weekend with ow as usual ( he doesn't seem to see her during the week) and will be really down thinking he has stuffed up son's life with his selfish behaviour, be full of remorse and regret and will have a truly crap weekend. She will get cross with his miserable self pitying behaviour (doesn't have kids so doesn't know the emotional tie) and the whole affair will collapse like a 'flan in a cupboard' ( for any Eddie Izzard fans out there!!).

Am I wicked or just deluded - who knows!!
Cxx

[AnnieP]

Lets just hope your wonderful scenario comes true!!
Justice!

[outoftheblue]

Nothing from H over weekend,Son has still had no txt either to commiserate or congratulate. Kept imagining him being a grumpy old man with ow all weekend, but don't know if this wish came true.

Feeling really really low today, due to our 6 month old puppy needing an operation. I didn't sleep last night 'cos I knew I would have to drive on the motorway for 2 hrs to get puppy to specialist vet. Son and I hoped vet would say no op. but obviously he didn't. Puppy has to have cage rest for 6 weeks now and that will be a nightmare to deal with on top of everything. I really feel I just can't cope with everything in my life at the moment and don't know when I'll ever be able to relax and feel happy again.

I hate being in charge of everything the whole time, the responsibilty of decisions etc is hard and my H would normally be such a great support. He would have done the drive etc but it all falls to me at the mo and I feel such a wimp for cracking. There is no one close by we can call for support and I feel so lonely and sad.

Will have to do the 2hrs there and 2hrs back again tomorrow to collect him and then be trapped at home with a howling puppy for the next 6 weeks. I can't even get out of the house to escape it all.

I miss my H and his love and support sooo much. I cried when the vet said puppy needed op. He thought it was 'cos I was sad about my dog. I was a bit, but it just reminded me of all the responsibilities that are falling on me and weighing me down.

I know I have to be strong for son, for puppy, for my family, for me and even for my H, but just now I'm feeling very sorry for myself and not quite up to the tasks I have been given. I just want to crawl under my duvet and hide and let the world carry on without me.

Anyone out there with any tips on how to stay positive?

Cxx

[AnnieP]

Oh C, I Do empathise. I have donkeys, dogs, chickens and currently, 4 horses staying with me. It is an absolute nightmare to run the whole kaboodle alone isn't it? One minor crisis can really tip you over the top, let alone a major one like your puppy. Deep breaths and think small steps. You can only do your best, and I am sure it will be amply good enough. Just think how good you will feel having done this by yourself?
I had to go for an MRI scan last Wed, drive myself 40 miles, to a place I had never been before. I felt SO sad sitting in the waiting room, surrounded by couples, giving eachother support. It made me feel so lonely. But, I did it, and my H will have to live with the guilt (if he has any) that he hasn't supported me like a H should.
Yours will feel the same over the puppy, whether he admits it or not, and it is showing him what an incredible woman you are by coping so well.
Stay positive, and BIG HUGS to you.

[outoftheblue]

Thanks Annie, I don't think I could cope with as many animals as you.

I can picture you in that waiting room and know exactly how you felt. It's such a desolate feeling isn't it? Especially when we are the innocent parties it really doesn't seem at all fair. Maybe we'll get our reward in heaven. Though I would settle for something a little earlier how about you?

When my fiance died in 1983 (on this day 20th August actually), I was only 20 and he had been my first love. I was desperate and desolate. It was 2.5 years before I met my H and he knew how broken I was. He rescued me and promised to never let me feel that sad again. He sent me a letter which I still have and I showed it to him recently. He seemed unmoved by seeing his own boyish love letter to me from 22 years ago. He is in such a black and selfish place right now he couldn't even acknowledge how his current behaviour and rejection of me and our marriage is soo much worse than the death I experienced. This just seems deliberate (although I acknowledge it may not be) and cruel, which is not my H at all. I wish I understood where that kind and gentle man has gone.

My rock has gone from my side and I feel adrift and alone and can't see to type this 'cos am now crying too much. I must control this self pity it is really unattractive.

[jools]

Dear C
You're allowed some self pity! In fact a little more and you might start feeling some righteous anger too! I think you deserve to feel very angry with your H instead of worrying on his behalf all the time. I know I found things easier when I was feeling angry with my H rather than worrying about him so I used to focus on finding reasons to be cross with him. I found it worked a treat! The anger eventually faded into ambivalence although I still occasionally find reasons to feel cross with him. If i'm honest, my biggest fear is that one day i'll find myself feeling sorry for him.
Your present H is a very different person to the one who wrote the letter. I don't know what the answer is.
Jools X
________
Bmw 3/20 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_3/20)

[Lauz]

I agree with Jools about the anger - I found it helped me too! In the beginning, I was so consumed with how my h felt and worrying about him and trying to help him! Then I started to really think about what he had done to me (not just the affair, but other things that I no longer found acceptable from the past) and the anger came flooding out. It helped me a lot and I think it helped him too in seeing what he had actually done to me. I do slip back into it every now again, but not like before. I think I am in the acceptance stage right now. I can't help him, he can only help himself. I do find myself feeling sorry for him every now again, that he is so unhappy and doesn't know why.

[outoftheblue]

I know I should feel anger and sometimes I do,but it's actually too painful. Sometimes like Monday when I was overwhelmed with self pity, the anger spills over but then I go into 'How could he do this to me' mode and the feelings are so intense that I can't deal with them they make me too too sad.

I have loved and adored this man (idespite his natural tendency to slight selfishness and lonerism and other dodgy man habits!) for 22 years and try as I might I cannot turn those feelings off. Yes I'm angry at what he is currently doing; hurt by his betrayal and at a loss to understand him, but I have a lifetime of loving memories of fun and friendship, romance and love and they eclipse everything else.

Very early on after he left so suddenly, he used the phrase 'work is who I am' to justify his putting his work first etc. I told him it was who he had become (since starting work for himself) and maybe who he had had to become to keep his business growing and support us etc. But that he was so much more than just work - he used to be fun; a family man and a homemaker someone with hobbies;friends and a life. He had just let work take over everything.

I didn't realise it at the time but I should have said being married/your wife is who I am - it defines me. That doesn't mean I am one of these mother earth types baking bread and being a little woman at home. I enjoy my work (well I used to) which is very rewarding, I know I am equal to my husband and we always loved big discussions on current affairs etc. We had mutual respect and understanding for each other and knew we both brought something unique to our marriage which together made it whole., and why it has worked so well for 20 years.

What I mean is the way I think, the way I plan for the future - holidays/decorating/gardening/ even retirement etc and all my memories revolve around me be part of a pair. I think of myself not only as me but as his wife and I have always been proud of that. I don't belong to him in a negative controlled sense, but as his other half (not better or anything just the other part that makes a whole), I need to belong, this to me is what marriage is - God made us 'one' when we made our vows, and that is who I believe I am and still want to be, one person with my husband.

I really should get more sleep this has rambled on and far from being the deep and meaningful insight as to why I can't get angry enough to hate my H just looks like I'm losing the plot - maybe I am - sorry folks.
Cxx

[jools]

Hi C
I've just sat at pc to get some work done - i've done so little this holiday that i'm starting to panic! I can't help being drawn to this site though because we get involved in each other's problems and want to get daily updates. Anyway - something you said rang true with me too - What I mean is the way I think, the way I plan for the future - holidays/decorating/gardening/ even retirement etc and all my memories revolve around me be part of a pair. I think of myself not only as me but as his wife and I have always been proud of that. I don't belong to him in a negative controlled sense, but as his other half (not better or anything just the other part that makes a whole), I need to belong, this to me is what marriage is That's exactly it, isn't it? When a couple get together the man seems more likely to retain all his outside clubs, sports, activities, drinking buddies - whatever; whereas us women seem to ditch a lot of things and turn towards absorbing ourselves into this couple. Like you said, not in any negative controlling way but because it's what makes us feel happy, comfortable, complete. We are the homemakers - we're just wired that way. Men are more able to compartmentalise their lives.

I've spent just over a year adjusting to my independent life and i'm doing pretty well. Gone back working full time and even had promotion. Joined a sports club and have a good group of friends. But just between you and me, C, I can't wait till i'm back in cosy coupledom land! Not with my ex though! My brain's done too good a job on the rewiring for that to ever be a possibility. But there is someone - don't want to say too much in case I jinx it. He's been abroad for 8 months - but we keep in touch and I'll bore you with the whole story should it ever come to fruition! Right - back to my work now. Thanks for the chat - and I understand all you said!
Love Jools XXXX
________
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[outoftheblue]

Really feel like I'm losing it now. Since the puppy's operation have been helping him recuperate. He has to be caged for the next 6 weeks which is a nightmare.

I have always suffered alot from anxiety and panic attacks and I suppose it was only a matter of time before I succumbed due to all the recent stress. Have been up pacing the house for the whole night with wave after wave of panic attack. It was horrid, have had asbolutely no sleep. There was no one I could turn to for help or reassurance and that of course just increased my anxiety and panic.

This is why I dread being alone because panic attacks are the scariest things and in the wee small hours you feel very vulnerable.

In a fit of despair I txtd my H half an hour ago, just for some company but he hasn't responded which makes me feel stupid and of course more miserable and anxious.
I don't know how I am going to face today let alone the rest of my life like this, Really despairing now and feel so rough to boot.

Anyone out there pleeaassee.

C

[jools]

HI C
I'm here! Whatever use that is. Panic attacks are horrible things to suffer. If it's any consolation, I also had a horrible night as I kept waking up and had unsettling dreams in between. I've found myself getting anxious about all sorts - my new job in September and wondering whether i'll meet someone else or whether my life will just become taken over by all work and no play - and loneliness. We're all adjusting to these painful changes in our lives. It's hard with older children as well not to let them see our pain - to stay strong for them. Certain things are just too much to keep to ourselves - which is why you ended up texting your H. Don't you find it ironic that the person who causes us this pain is the one person that we want to turn to for comfort?
Hope you feel a bit better as the day goes on. Keep pouring it all out here if not.
Jools XXX
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[outoftheblue]

Thank you so much Jools. After I received no reply to the txt I emailed him at work to apologise for being a nuisance. I'm not sorry really just thought I'd say it to him. In my email I told him how scared I was on my own and how unfair it was to leave me coping with everything.

He rang me within minutes!! Said he had been busy and hadn't seen the txt!. He was so kind and said of course I should ring him - anytime- he called me sweetheart and said he had lain in bed thinking about me this morning. I told him that was 'cos he must have known I needed him! I said I hadn't known where else to turn and he was still my husband and he said I was still his wife.He apologised about work being really busy but promised to call again. He did whilst I was in the shower so I missed him. But son spoke to him and he said he will call later.

Him being so caring makes me think he does want to be with us just can't quite manage it. I know I'm on the edge of a breakdown and am frightened of losing it as my son and puppy need me. I need my h so much and just won't cope if he doesn't return soon.

Thanks for being there.
C

[Topsy47]

Hi C

I really feel for you - but please please please try and hold on in there and be strong.

Its easy for me to say but try not to base everything on whether your H returns or not. You may think you can't cope without him but this is because it is unfamiliar to you and I think we are all scared of the unknown. Of course its also down to the fact that this horrible situation is none of your choosing or making and its so hurtful, scary and frustrating to find yourself there.

To put it bluntly (and sorry about this), you really need to try and manage without your H's help. I know its much easier said than done - but if H doesn't come back then you do need to start coping for yourself and, believe me, you WILL manage. If he does come back, then you will be much more confident within your relationship because you know that you CAN cope with things on your own. And in my experience, a strong capable woman can actually be very attractive to a man!

Its all a huge struggle at the moment and the best thing is to take one day at a time and take small steps forward without constantly looking at the bigger picture.

I would love to give you a big hug right now and be able to wave that magic wand that says everything is going to be just fine. Will be thinking of you - keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

Love
Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Thanks Topsy,
I agree with everything you say about being strong and capable and to be honest I have been. To outsiders I am a 'together' type of person, I have managed the home, our large garden, getting our son succcessfully through his exams, the new puppy and puppy operation as well as my job.
Driving long distances to new places and finding where I'm going without getting lost, even changing my car to one I can share with my son. I have shown my husband I can do decorating, DIY, car maintenance etc.

I know I am capable but sometimes I don't want the responsibilty of being in charge of everything. Most of the time I can look after everyone, but sometimes I would like someone to look after me.

Our marriage is/was a partnership we both bought something to it and worked together to make a whole. I miss that so much, he truly is my other half and that is why I am only half working at the moment.
I suppose you can say I can cope alone but I just don't want to 'cos it's miserable.

I have a family history with anxiety and I have suffered on and off for years. The panic attacks/anxiety attacks are physically debilitating and make the coping alone so much harder. If only there was a cure. I've read books galore and know what all the bodily symptoms mean, but they are still frightening to experience especially at night.
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hi C

I guess most of us on here know just how you feel and it must be that bit harder if you suffer anxiety attacks. My sister also has anxiety problems so I understand a little of what you are experiencing.

I agree that one of the worst parts is having to deal with things when sometimes you would just like somebody else to take care of it for you or even just be there as support. Sometimes its really silly things - I got home late on Thur night and was having to put the bin bags out about midnight and it really hit me that H would normally have done it.

Like I said in my last post, its this horrid situation of being in a position that is none of your choosing and you are being forced to face it when you really don't want to. Its hard enough dealng with the emotional side of things without having to do the practical as well.

I'm probably not being much help here as I'm really just agreeing with you than offering much constructive help!
Take care

Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Maybe just maybe he is now looking for a map, and will one day find his way home.
After my cry for help and making the first move in emailing him, he called three times in one day. He then came over yesterday for a visit. He says he really misses us and thinks about us and our old life all the time.

It is really hard as it's been 4 weeks since we've seen him and we are all awkward as no one knows what to do or say. We talked loads eventually and there did seem a slight shift in his manner. He as good as admitted MLC and that he was hiding.

I called it a 'bubble' that he was living in with her. He said he wasn't unhappy at the moment and I said I could see why. He is living a very easy yet shallow life at the moment, but if he stepped back he could see he hasn't gained anything he didn't already have. He still works all week staying away in a hotel. He then drives 1-2 hours to her house for the weekend. It isn't his home and he doesn't belong there. He has no hobbies or friends there and still no real 'life' That is no different from when he lived here and he said the reason he felt he didn't belong in our house was cos he was away all week and felt left out of our lives.

If our marriage had been miserable then this new life would make sense and be better, but he admits we were happy. This seems to be the classic MLC looking for something 'different' but not realising that the different is within him as a state of mind. He might now be starting to realise this.

I also think I understand why he believes he is happy at the moment and why he is not ready to burst that bubble and try and mend our marriage. From the inside it looks too frightening. Too hard to face up to what he has done and set about repairing things. Why would he upset his current status quo which is so much easier, much better bury head in the sand. But I think he knows he can't stay in the bubble forever and also knows he has got to face it soon before it is too late and he loses everything forever.

He now seems shocked at himself and the mess he has got himself in and really doesn't know the best way to fix it. But this is progress from defensive and aggressive behaviour. At least he is talking and thinking about whether solving things could ever be possible. Although his comments are predominantly negative - How can I come back from this?- How can I face everyone? - It can't ever be the same again - We would have to have a complete lifestyle change etc. etc. They are almost cries for help saying he wants to make things right but they are too dreadful and he is frightened he can't. He still thinks counselling is a waste of time, but I don't think he can do this on his own.
Although we are long way off solving this, maybe his mindset is shifting and he is getting ready to face up to himself. If and when he does I have assured him I will be there for him and we can face things together Fingers crossed we will get to that point.

Of course I could have dreamt all this or be reading far too much into everything he said. I do hope not.
C.

[Topsy47]

Hi C

It certainly sounds like he is having some doubts over what he has done. the mere fact that he will even discuss it without going on the defensive is a major start.
It sounds to me as though when he says 'how can I face everyone' and things like that, that maybe he is looking for reassurance from you that the two of you can face it together.
Of course it would be hard work. I have already said to one of my friends that if my H came back, my worst fear would be that he doesn't have the strength and commitment to work it all through - I wouldn't have thought like that a few months ago but the fact that he walked out in the first place does seriously dent my faith in him to say the least!
I most definitely agree that counselling would be needed - I would expect my H to go for joint counselling if we did reconcile. When you have been through a separation like this, you need to get to the bottom of all the issues to ensure its not going to happen again and I think the only way you really get to tackle the issues on a rational basis is when you have a third party asking the questions. Again.. its not going to be easy but if he does decide that he wants to try again then he's got to be prepared to do some of it your way.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

P
x

[outoftheblue]

Thanks for that. My H has never been great at doing things anyway other than his and even now it's all about him, his crisis, how he feels what he's going to do etc. He seems secure in his knowledge that if he makes up his mind to come back we will be willing. Of course we will be, but there will have to be some concessions on his part, but that is a discussion for quite a long way down the line yet.

Interestingly when I last saw him I put out the idea that it would take a long time for me to trust him again and he instantly said, 'but you know I wouldn't do this again because it isn't who I am!' That is actually very true and supports my theory all the way through that he is having an aberration of some sort and just needs to refind his moral compass. Talk about reading too much into something but surely not the words of a man looking to leave his wife cos he is ecstatically happy with OW!!

Since his visit on Sunday we have had 3 phone calls and some lovely chats. He has talked to son about Uni application which we are struggling to do as just the two of us - so that was great. We still 'connect' when we chat and can tease and make each other laugh. I keep telling him despite all that is going on we must have a remarkable bond to still be able to do this. He says he has really missed talking to us and I said that although I had too I didn't like sharing him with OW and found it hard that he chats to her too. He grudgingly accepted that it was hard for me.

I still detect a slight shift in his attitude, BUT I am so worried that he is now back to how he was before I told him not to contact us if he was still contacting her. ie. Having his cake and eating it. I want to be in touch with him to remind him of us, our son, puppy and our lovely home NOT for him to think he can have enough contact with us to satisfy his missing us but still carry on with OW. I'm just worried he still wants to have both.

I know him well enough that I cannot insist on him dumping her, he will have to do that when he is ready (if ever - but soon I hope). And my hope is that if he does it when he is ready, rather than being pushed into it then it will be over for good and he won't return to her and she won't want him.

Is it him or me living in that fantasyland?
C

[Topsy47]

Hi C

How much contact you have with H is a really tough one. If, like me, you still want to reconcile then I think it is important to maintain some line of communication - I feel it makes it easier for H to say he wants to come back. Its great that he's said he misses talking to you - I definitely can't imagine my H saying anything like that even if he feels it.

I appreciate that you don't like sharing him with OW, but the contact you are having will allow him to see what he is missing. At the same time, don't overdo it - try and maintain some distance, in other words don't be grateful if he calls and don't necessarily be available all the time to talk. I don't know if you are doing this already but with my H I often try to be the one who ends the conversation - it helps me keep things on my terms and also lets him know that i am not at his beck and call.

Totally agree that you cannot insist on him dumping OW - that has to be his decision. Clearly you are not going to welcome him home unless he has got rid of OW so I think he probably knows what he needs to do if he does want to return to you.

The hard part really is the sitting in limbo waiting to see if he does do anything. How are you managing at the moment?

P
x

[outoftheblue]

Yes it's the limbo that hurts the most and to carry on the analogy I have been bending over backwards to support him through this crisis despite the fact he is still with OW. I don't know when he is going to realise just how lucky he is to have such a supportive and loving wife.


I know a lot of people would be saying kick him out etc how can you let him do this to you, but saddo that I am I don't feel he is 'doing this to me' I am just a victim of his current behaviour. Whatever the reason for his current epic selfishness (MLC depression breakdown) he can't see beyond his own needs at the moment so our son and I don't figure in his equation.

Yes this is hurtful and totally wrong, but if I go ape now our marriage will be over and for me, being divorced is much more abhorrent than what he is doing/has done with OW. We have been happily married for 20 years and he has never done anything like this before. He seems to have flipped, poss through overwork/death of Dad/MLC but I can't allow our marriage to fail through just one mistake in 20 years. I vowed for better or worse and it is my duty to him, to me, to our son and to our marriage to at least try and save it and if that means waiting around for him to come to his senses I will do it for as long as I can ( whilst going quietly mad in the process!).

Are any of the guys out there who have been in my H's position, cos I would like to know whether they think I am doing the right thing or being a complete prat? Or any other advice would help.

Thanks
C

[Topsy47]

Hi C

Although the circumstances of our situations are quite different, i totally related to everything you said there.

I believe my H is suffering from some type of depression and has other issues (like the OCD) and his current behaviour all stems from that. The bit you said about not being able to see beyond his own needs really fits - my H isn't coping and I think his only way of dealing with it all was to get out altogether.

I also strongly believe in my marriage vows - I can say now that I have only recently been realising just how much H had brought me down over the last few months but it had just never occurred to me to end my marriage over it. A happy marriage doesn't occur naturally, you always have to work at it and that includes the awful parts as well as the good.

In some ways, having H back would be harder than moving on on my own. I suspect in a way it would be like that for you as there is a lot for you to forgive and to deal with - but if you genuinely believe you can come out the other side and be happy together then its definitely worth trying. That is how I feel about my H - it would be hard work but I would fight for it.

I don't think you are a prat at all! it would just be so much easier if we all had our crystal balls handy to see what the future held!

[outoftheblue]

Thanks Topsy it's nice to know there are others out there that think marriage is worth saving.

In the contact we have had recently my H has said quite a few things which lead me to believe he is doing a lot of thinking and doesn't quite like where he has got himself. When I asked him how he was able to put me, our son, our home life, 20 years together etc out of his mind etc he replied 'It's what you have to do to cope with it all, it's the only way you can keep going'

l think that explains quite a lot about how men think and do these awful things. It confirms the compartmentalisation of thier lives and why we find it so difficult to understand them.My H knows too many thoughts about what he's done and what he stands to lose will cripple him so he pushes them away and doesn't deal with them.

But it's interesting he says it's what you HAVE to do - as if he is being compelled to have this MLC and he is an unwitting particpant. It seems like he doesn't want to push his thoughts about us to the back of his mind but just has to, to get through this. I hope eventually the 'US' compartment will burst open and his thoughts come tumbling out. Cos then and only then will he face up to reality and hopefully get his and our lives back on track.

Like I've said before one theory I've read about MLC is it's a hormonal thing like another adolesence. That really fits my H, he is behaving like a selfish moody teenager, has little or no regard for the feelings of others and seems deliberately beligerant and rebellious. He says he still loves us, but like a teenager can't show it at the mo. It would also explain how he feels trapped with his feelings and unwillingly along for the ride. There are other men out there who have had MLC and then 'woken up' to their stupid behaviour later on and looking back can't recognise the men they were and how awfully they behaved may be there is something in it as from all the comments on this site there are a lot of men out there doing the same thing at the same age.

I think it is a curse of our era. Years ago men were fully challenged by the toughness of life, having to go off to fight wars etc so tended not to have MLC cos by the time they were 40 they were just grateful to be back home with family and could settle for the security of pipe and slippers. Our H's now still have loads of pressure, home/mortgage/family etc. They are expected to work longer and longer hours and be 'new men' around the home etc and by mid life they're thinking I've been working half my life and what have I achieved and they feel the need to challenge themselves get the adrenalin rush be it by an affair, porsche or motorbike.

We live in era where the media tell us we can have it all, but for some it is not enough! Pah!!

Sorry just rambling now.
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hiya!

Yeah, I think some men are able to compartmentalise things and put them to one side in a way that a lot of women can't.

When my H left, he said that he'd made his decision so he couldn't go back. Its a bit like your H saying 'HAVE'. Of course my H could change his mind but basically he isn't currently willing or able to deal with the amount of work and commitment it would take to sort everything out.

I strongly believe that, in a lot of cases, the person who leaves will eventually regret what they have done but it all depends on how long it takes them to reach that conclusion. Even when we sell our house and I get a place of my own, I will still make it clear to H that that doesn't mean its all over. The door is always going to be open for him - or at least for as long as I think it could still work out.

Actually, I think you have a point about the curse of our era and its not just for men. Women have been encouraged to be more independent and to have careers and being at home to bring up a family is almost frowned upon sometimes. Also, divorces are so commonplace now that they aren't as taboo as they used to be and are so much easier to get - I think it allows people to give up more easily than they might have done in a different era.

Despite having a career (!), I think I am quite an old fashioned girl at heart.

Off out to a BBC proms concert tonight so must get ready. Talk soon!

P

[outoftheblue]

Topsy you and I are singing from the same hymn sheet - just be grateful it's virtual and not actual singing on my part.

My H came again this weekend and stayed the longest (6hrs) since end of June. He was really nice and again very normal. The shift that started last week continues, there are signs very subtle ones that he is awakening. He was more interested in the house/garden and seemed to be missing it all.

We all went out for lunch and had a lovely normal time. We laughed and joked about stuff, recalling holidays we had had and H was the one bringing up stuff as good memories. Up till now it has been me doing this to jog his memory. There were even indications he wanted to go back to these places again.

When we came home he sat in his usual chair and watched the cricket. He seemed far more relaxed and 'at home' then he has for some time.

Obviously he is still with her and that hurts like hell, but he seemed so at ease with us that he maybe he is realising what he stands to lose. It is so hard to play the long game and be so nice and 'normal' the whole time. If he ever comes out of this I will either look very very stupid or he will realise how patient and loving I have been to allow him to find his way home.

There will have to come a point when I say you've got to make a choice as this situation can't go on indefinitely, but I have no idea when to do this. If I push him too soon all my hard work till now will be wasted, but if I let it go too long he'll enjoy having his cake etc.

This trying to do the right thing is just too hard sometimes and may not even pay off in the long run.
C

[outoftheblue]

Having a real low day today, feel alone and unloved and can't really understand how I deserve this.

20 years ago I promised to love, honour and obey as well as all the other stuff. I have always kept those vows. I told my H everyday I loved him and was proud of him, I have supported him as he has built his business and accepted the amount of time and energy he needed to devote to it.

I have kept a nice home and looked after our son, who is wonderful. I try not to spend too much money, but have bought nice things for the home/garden, little presents for him or our son and always tried to wear nice clothes and keep my appearance attractive. I am 44 but have been told I only look about 34 and am very slim.

I treat everyone as I would wish to be treated, but don't understand why this is never reciprocated to me. I lost my part time job today which was the only thing that was keeping me focussed. So now I've got even more time to wallow in self pity.

Trying to look on the bright side, I'm hoping this last few months where my world/life has imploded is getting all the bad stuff out in one go. First lost my beloved dog who we had bought as a second child substitute when IVF didn't work; then lost my husband to a trollope (I've always loved that word and it's so apt now); new puppy needed major operation and long recuperation, which will last till November and now I've lost my job which gave me great satisfaction because I was helping people and did a lot of it unpaid.

To the big man upstairs, if you've got anything else lined up for me in the near future, bring it on now I can't get much lower!

[huskypup]

Outoftheblue

I wish I could come round with a bottle of wine so we could chat properly, its horrible when you have a down day, there is nothing anyone can say or do that can cheer you up, Ive had many of them recently.

I have a motto and in my job I see alot of people men mostly who come in and have left there wives, I always given them the speil but I never thought that I would have to say it to myself

"I am the most important person in my life and if I am not happy I can not make those around me happy"

You need to learn to love yourself again, I know that it is hard and your whole world has been shattered but slowly you - WE all of us going through this will love ourselves and come out of this stronger and happier people - I know that sounds very hard to believe, but I know one day we will all wake up and be happy again.

Sending you healing thoughts and lots of hugsxxxxx

[outoftheblue]

Thanks Huskypup. I hear everything you say, but know that's not me. I have spend my whole life willingly helping others to be happy and that in turn made me happy.I have always lacked inner self confidence, though outwardly people who meet me think I am a really together person - all bluff I'm afraid.

I don't believe people when they say I'm really good at my job or I'm pretty and always look nice etc etc. I really hate to receive compliments as I feel it's conceited and I get embarrassed.
I even received the annual Yummy Mummy award voted for by the boys at my son's school, but I never told anyone because I was mortified to think that everyday at school pick up I was being watched. I also felt undeserving - My H thought it was a hoot and my son was as embarassed as me to think his friends thought I was hot.

Anyway, I'm not a mousy meek girlie, just happy to be a good supportive wife and mother. But now I just need to love and be loved in return. I am so lonely but with no chance of ever meeting anyone else (not that I want to at the mo), but I don't come into contact with any men ever. Except one time when the petrol station attendant said I had nice hair - but that was a little creepy.

Can't face the rest of my life without being loved, or have someone to love and take care of and to take care of me.

C

[huskypup]

Outoftheblue

Sorry words didn't help, didn't think they would, like I say I go through the speil everyday with people, though you never want to have to say it to yourself.

I can't tell you what to do, I can tell you are a strong woman, and it is that, that will get you through.

Nancy

[outoftheblue]

Sorry Nancy - I really did appreciate your kind words. I was having a 'woe is me day' which was deeply unattractive.

Anyway resolved to be positive and upbeat. Have just been offered another job with more money. Didn't even have to apply was 'headhunted' so feeling better about myself today. Of course now thinking 'am I up to the task? but I know that is usual for me.

Please keep supporting me - I really do need to know you are out there.
Cxx

[huskypup]

Don't worry, we'll still out here for you:).

I know how easy it is to be upbeat one day and down another, Im just taking each day as it comes, I am trying to put my life back to normal, it is very hard as I am so used to him being around, I still love him, but I don't like him very much anymore.

I am not waiting for him to phone or write, I know that one day he will wake up and realise what an idiot he has been, it maybe too late it may not, we will see, until then

"I am in the most important person in my life (apart from the two dogs, four cats) and if I can't make myself happy then I can't make those around me happy"

Glad your got a new job offer - see you are needed.

[Topsy47]

Hi Outoftheblue

Just been catching up on posts and so sorry I missed you when you were having a horrid day.

I am glad to see you have been offered a new job - maybe there was a reason you lost your other job, something better was waiting round the corner?

How are you doing now?

I agree with Huskypup that you do need to love yourself more. You have offered me some lovely and kind words of support on this forum that have really helped me - its clear what a wonderful person you are and you must try and learn to believe people when they compliment you.

We all definitely have our up and down days. I saw my best friend the other night and went into a downward spiral of how I always fail at everything. I think sometimes we just have to unload - please always feel that you can do that on here as we are all here for you.

Take care
P
x

[outoftheblue]

Thanks Topsy it's hard to love yourself when you feel everything around you is so crap. And I do feel I always fail at everything. I know I don't but when one thing goes wrong it just reminds you of all the other things that have gone wrong in your life and compounds the misery.

For me it seems the harder I try the more life kicks me in the teeth, but I know it's not in my nature to be any different.

Before I met my H, I lost my first boyfriend, who I was engaged to, very suddenly and unexpectedly to leukaemia and I found that very hard to cope with. It was my H who put me back together again and helped me rebuild me life. I find it almost too hard a task to rebuild my life and move on for a second time. I used all the reserves in my tank the first time and now I've got nothing to draw on. ther are only so many spaces in my mind wher I can hide all the memories that cause me pain.

That is why I need and love my H so desperately. I have spent the last 20 years worrying he would die and leave me all alone again and I dreaded it everyday, he knew this and has always been understanding and so solid. But what he has now done is actually far far worse because it is deliberate and that is why it hurts so much. Loneliness is the one thing I've always feared as I spent my early 20's surrounded by people but very much alone and here I am again 20+ years later all sad and alone.

I always believed I was lucky to get a second chance at love and that is why I was willing to put my H's and my son's happiness above my own, because seeing them happy brought me great joy. That does not now apply to my H being happy with OW obviously and in the words of Claudia on Julie37's thread I do hope it all goes tits up for them, as that really would make me happy
C

[Topsy47]

Hiya! how are you getting on?

It must have been so hard to recover from losing someone you loved in such traumatic circumstances.

Although your H helped you get yourself back together after that, you must remember that it was still you that had to do all the hard work in recovering from such an experience. Its wonderful to have support but at the end of the day, it was you who got through it in the end. Somehow you will get through all of this as well - it might take some time but you will get there with the help and support of your friends (on here!) and your son and other people close to you. You won't ever be alone particularly since you have your lovely son - I know its not the same type of companionship but you aren't on your own.

I understand about putting others happiness above your own. Since my H lost his mum, I thought about him all the time and I genuinely thought that everything I was doing was to help him get through it. I just wanted him to be happy again and it was almost as though I couldn't be happy til he was.

How have things been lately?

P
x

[Topsy47]

Hiya C

You haven't posted on your thread for a few days - are you doing OK?

Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Hi Topsy, thanks for checking up on me it's so nice to know people care how I'm doing.

I'm ok, just been a bit busy and feeling guilty I'd been spending so much time on the computer neglecting housework etc! You can let things slip when no one else sees the house and teenage boys don't notice their own mess let alone anyone elses.

Am waiting in limbo to see what my H plans to do this weekend. He's been away for 10 days mountain climbing (with colleagues definitely not OW). Yes part of his MLC and pushing himself before he's too old and trying to 'find' himself. He has even said to me "I am out there somewhere" thus recognising he is not currently himself. He's so classic MLC!!

Anyway his flight is due back Saturday early evening and I don't know whether he will go straight to her house or come to see us. Airport is nearer her than us. It is unlikely he'll come here as that would mean staying here over night and he's not ready for that yet, and he would then have to go and see her on Sunday as his work clothes are at her house. More likely he will go to her late Saturday spend the night and collect his clothes and then visit us Sunday before heading to his work hotel Sunday night.
Now for my dilemma - obviously son and I want to see him and don't want to put him off if he wants to see us, (we think all contact is good as it reminds him of his old life and what he has given up), but we are due to visit friends on Sunday who we have already cancelled once when H came over unexpectedly. Also don't want to be seen to be dropping everything each time he decides to visit. BUT if we are not available that enables him to spend more time with her and obviously I don't want to do that. So I think if he says he'll come over Sunday I'll tell him only to come late afternoon when we can be back from friends house. That means though he will spend Saturday night and Sunday morning with OW but I can't think of a better solution. Also if by some miracle he did want to come straight to us from the airport and spend Saturday night with us then we'd have to leave early Sunday to visit our friends - either leaving him home alone or pushing him back to spend Sunday with her and not giving us any time to talk at what would be a significant moment. AARRGGHH!!

Anyone got any great ideas?? All advice welcome.

[Lauz]

Am waiting in limbo to see what my H plans to do this weekend. He's been away for 10 days mountain climbing (with colleagues definitely not OW). Yes part of his MLC and pushing himself before he's too old and trying to 'find' himself. He has even said to me "I am out there somewhere" thus recognising he is not currently himself. He's so classic MLC!!.

Yep, my h too. He is always pushing himself with sports and physical activity whilst he is "young and able" he says. He is only 31.

Now for my dilemma - obviously son and I want to see him and don't want to put him off if he wants to see us, (we think all contact is good as it reminds him of his old life and what he has given up), but we are due to visit friends on Sunday who we have already cancelled once when H came over unexpectedly. Also don't want to be seen to be dropping everything each time he decides to visit. BUT if we are not available that enables him to spend more time with her and obviously I don't want to do that. So I think if he says he'll come over Sunday I'll tell him only to come late afternoon when we can be back from friends house. That means though he will spend Saturday night and Sunday morning with OW but I can't think of a better solution. Also if by some miracle he did want to come straight to us from the airport and spend Saturday night with us then we'd have to leave early Sunday to visit our friends - either leaving him home alone or pushing him back to spend Sunday with her and not giving us any time to talk at what would be a significant moment. AARRGGHH!!

Anyone got any great ideas?? All advice welcome.

I undersstand the dilema, you certainly dont want to encourage time with the ow, but he is spending time with her regardless! Still cant get my head around that one...

I personally wouldn't change the plans you have in place. You and your son need to have a life too. Your h is having the life he wants - have yours - see your friends etc. Show him that life does go on whilst he is in his "MLC".

[AnnieP]

Hi there! Sorry i haven't been around as much lately...
Its a difficult one. I think I would go to the friends regardless also. Maybe it would give him a bit of a shock to realise that you are not always there when he wants you to be.....
I know this will sound hard when all you want is to see him... I am not sure I could carry out my own advice......

[huskypup]

I think I tend to agree with Annie and Lauz, I wouldn't change my plans either, as much you love him you can't stop your life while he sorts his out.

You to may also need to refind yourself, and maybe in the process he will realise that the person he fell in love with in the first place is still there underneath, we are all guilty of changing to suit someone else and WE get lost in the process, maybe its time to find that person again I know its hard but maybe you do need to get out there and try and find life without him dictating the shots. (Sorry if that sounded harsh)

I know it is also easier for someone to tell you what to do, but I do think you are your own person and you shouldn't allow yourself to be dictated to by him.

All this from the person, that still expects letters and emails from him who has no name and just sometimes forgets that he isn't going to come home and when I remember it hurts like hell.

Take care look after yourself and have a nice time at your friends.

[Topsy47]

Hi! At the risk of sounding like an echo (!), I agree that you should not change your plans to accomodate your H. I know its really tempting to do that but you can see already the dilemma that it is giving you. If you remain strong and just say that you are seeing your friends on Sun but that he is welcome round at any other time then that is your decision made.

You are being very good to him as it is in the way that you are dealing with this whole situation. You want him back and therefore you are keeping it friendly and that is great but just be careful not to compromise yourself too much

topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Thanks Ladies.
I do agree that I need to have a life of my own etc hard really when we have always done everything together including visiting these friends. Actually they are the family of my boyfriend who died. I've known them all for 30 years (wow that sounds old but I was only 14) and they were so good at accepting my H into their lives - he's even Godfather to their son!

I certainly don't want him to think I'm at his beck and call - BUT if I play hard to get or at least hard to access he gets to spend more time with HER and I want to stop that as much as I can.

Cos I really feel and am starting to believe from the things he has said that he does want to find some way to come home. But poss without losing face, knowing I will quite rightly make him eat bowlsful of humble pie with lashings of I told you so custard. So I feel the more time he can spend with us and the less with her the more he will realise what he stands to lose and how great we are!!!

I hate this game playing second guessing etc. I just long for the day he appears at the door with his lost puppy face and says " I'm sorry, I've been a pratt will you forgive me?" It may never ever come, but for now I have to believe that someday it will.

I will keep you guys informed - thanks for your input and support.
Cxx

[outoftheblue]

Well not going to plan at all.

He didn't call as he said he would Friday and have heard nothing at all from him today. His flight landed on time and even if he'd decided to go to OW he hasn't even called to say landed safely which I thought he would.

I am now back in full anxiety mode. I'm worried about him and where he might be. He had been so nice and so normal in his last calls that I thought we were making progress. He did say the mountain cold had played havoc with his phone battery so I thought he'd call from a landline back in UK. But to hear nothing is so unusual and try as I might I can't stop worrying about his safety. Has he gone off hill walking on his own and fallen? Has he had the breakdown I am expecting and if so is he alone (he was climbing with 2 friends). Or is there a more rational and plausible explanation?

Sorry to ramble on and on but I suffer so much with anxiety and thoughts of him and why he hasn't called are going round and round in my head and I can't stop the loop. I know I shouldn't care and I know you guys will post to say don't be stupid he's gone straight to OW. In some ways that's almost Ok it's the not knowing where or how he is that panics me and as his wife I feel responsible for his wellbeing. I know I'm not just feel I am.

I wish I didn't care so much about him and I can't cope with the worry of this behaving so out of character. I don't know how I would help our son cope if anything had happened to him. I just hope he's taken some time out to do some serious thinking and get his head sorted.

[Topsy47]

Hi there! I hate that sick anxious feeling you get when you are not sure what they are doing and whats going on. The thing to think of right now is that if something bad had really happened, then you most probably would have heard about it.

You also have to remember that if your H is going through MLC or other problems, then most of his focus is on himself. He does not think in the usual rational way that he should let you know that he is OK.

Its easy for me to say, but try to relax and not worry. You've got plans to go out tomorrow so carry on with those and TRY to have a good day.

You will hear from him eventually but let him be the one to make contact.

Topsy
xxxx

[AnnieP]

OOTB. If its any consolation, I'm doing the sick/anxious thing at present too. Its bloomin awful not having a handle on what is going on isn't it? My stomach is lurching all over the place and tears are always just there ready to appear....
Have you tried Bach's Rescue Remedy? Its available from Boots etc. Its a herbal drops thing, and you drop them onto your tongue when you feel anxious. They do a spray one too, and it actually works!
Just a thought....
BIG hugs to you
xxx

[Topsy47]

Hi! I've used the rescue remedy too and its good. Also, if you've got any health food shops near you, I use some herbal teas called Tension Tamer and Sleepytime - v nice and relaxing!

Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Thanks girls for the support. I've been spraying Rescue Remedy for England over the last few months, but when I get really bad it hasn't got a hope of working.

Anyway.......
In sheer desperation I sent him a casual 'Hi Hope you're ok' txt about 11pm Saturday night. Of course no reply. Had a sleepless and very restless night. I just couldn't turn my head off if you know what I mean. (I will try and get some of those teas though). Got up exhausted and tried to tell myself not to worry Pah!! Don't tell anyone cos its ridiculous and in the cold light of day really sad, but I put the tv on first thing and was watching all the news channels even the Europe ones expecting to hear the headline '3 British Climbers have gone missing' etc. I was working on the principle that if one of the others had failed to return home on time they would have been reported missing Saturday pm and it would have hit the news by Sunday am. I now know this is sad and a bit OCD, but losing my first boyfriend so suddenly has always made me fear the unexpected and I work on the theory that if I'm prepared for anything and everything I won't be taken by surprise again. I know of course that isn't true, but when anxiety takes hold you really lose all sense of reason.

Now you all know how weird and scared I get.

Still, I tried to get ready for visiting my friends and talking in my head all the time. Finally got a brief txt at 10.30 am. 'I'm OK - will ring later X' Phew! Went to my friends had a nice day - first time I'd seen them all since H left (they had visited us both about two weeks before and thought he was very distant, but like me never expected all this). Did not get a phone call at all and as yet nothing today. This is all very weird, cos when we last spoke on Thursday he was nearly normal. He was friendly chatty and talking about going into the village to get us little holiday pressies.

I am wondering whether he has come to a decision about OW and maybe maybe maybe he went to her and finished it and is now getting his head together that is why he can't ring us yet??? I suspect that unusually he turned his phone off Saturday night, maybe not wanting contact from anyone while he came to his big decision.I know I could be way off, but from his last calls there would be no reason for him to suddenly stop ringing us and he had really been starting to show signs of wanting to come home. Even if he had gone to OW cos he wanted to be with her (Yuck), I think he still would have txtd me or our son last night to say he was back and had a good time etc. I hear what you say about MLC selfishness etc and that does really apply to him, but our son was injured in rugby (again) but not seriously but H had been ringing lots and asking how he was.

This change back into no contact, suggests to me he is focusing single mindedly on something he has to do, please let it be 'the right thing'

Of course it could be the opposite - he might be getting ready to ditch me and our son and went to her to check she'd have him and where he could store his golf clubs etc! I do sincerely hope not.

I will keep you all informed in this saga which is starting to resemble a dodgy TV script.

[AnnieP]

Oh OOTB. What a difficult time for you. I have got everything crossed that it is for positive reasons that he has slackened on contact with you.

Keep yourself busy and try to not think about it (ha ha).
I am still analysing last week's visit, adn it just isn't helpful really. Must get a grip on myself and DO something..... The kitchen floor needs stripping and waxing... groan....

If its bad news, I have a suggestion for where he could store his golf clubs...... ;O)

[SouthofFrance]

Hello out of the Blue,
It's a funny day for me today as it is exactly a year since I found out about my H's affair (it had been going on for a year) I used this site a lot for help a year ago and have found my way back here today, I read your thread and hope I can offer some positive feeling for you. I identified so much with what you said about your relationship, soul mates, smugness that we weren't like those couples that split up etc etc so when the bombshell dropped I was devastated. But like your H mine told me he still loved me, always had etc etc, he even described it himself as living in a bubble when he was with the OW, like yours it was totally out of character and he too said it was just something that seemed out of control as if he had to do it to see where it led (MLC?) my reaction was I am willing to forgive you IF you stop all contact with the OW, he found this really hard (as you have realised they think they're all young and in love again!) crying etc etc, eventually he came to senses and realised that what he had with me and our children was more than a mere flash in the pan and how ever exciting the affair was it could not last. Anyway after counselling, alot of tears (on my part not his!!!), endless questioning we seem to be coming through the other side. I still love him very much, like you I honestly don't think he would do it again ( like you we had a whole lot of personal circumstances that were pretty traumatic and I think he just escaped) our relationship has changed but maybe in some ways for the better, like you I too was running around trying to be perfect wife, mother, business partner (we have our own business) and now I take more time just for me and it's really helped.
So I suppose after all that rambling what I really wanted to say was don't depair completely it CAN work, if the love is there and you ultimately want to be together, you can make it happen - it sounds as if he really wants to be with you, is he willing to go to counselling with you? I certainly would never wish what I've been through on anyone but I know this time a year ago I just wanted to know that it was possible to come back from the brink and there were some sucess stories. The hardest thing to do is to wait for him to come to his senses and you are being incredibly courageous and despite the fact you don't think you are - you have great strength to be continuing as you are. I really hope it works for you and hope I've given you some encouragement.
Also just wanted to say a HUGE thankyou to this site (specially Annie2 and Helen who were a massive help to me!!!)

[outoftheblue]

This is really weird. Have still had no contact from him at all and neither has our son. There is just no reason for him to suddenly go cold on us when he had been building a bridge and even making hints about wanting to come back.

I daren't txt or phone cos I think the non-contact must mean something, just not sure what. I sooo hope he's waking up and coming to his senses and maybe tying up the loose ends with OW. I really really hope I won't look back at these threads and feel a fool for being so hopeful.

[outoftheblue]

South of France I can't thank you enough for the thread from you, it was so kind of you to post and even stick with my rambling threads. It's wonderful that your marriage has survived and I know mine can too if my H can just realise he needs to try!!

Everyone is telling me you can't let him treat you like this and you can't let it go on and on, but actually I can. I married him for life and have nothing to be gained by divorcing him now. I don't feel I'm losing my dignity by 'allowing' him to treat me like this as I feel he is just so wrapped up in himself (Depression/MLC??) that he is not deliberately doing this to me, I am just a consequence, part of the fall out if you like. If I genuinely thought there was malice in his actions I would tell him to get lost, but I know him and know he is suffering (deep down).

Although it's hard of course I will wait for him, as I believe he and the marriage we had are worth waiting for. It may take some time to rebuild our lives and it may never happen, but for now knowing there are others who have waited and won, gives me the strength to know it's the right thing to do for both of us.

Don't know if you're actually lucky enough to be in the South of France, but where ever you are you have cheered me and have made my day. Thank you so much and best of luck to you and your H for happiness in the future.

Cxx

[AnnieP]

OOTB. Stick with it. We are so on the same wavelength here. I know you will not give up on him, just be patient and all will be revealed I guess.
I am still checking up on you to hear what the next step is. Stay strong. You are giving me such courage too.

[SouthofFrance]

You are also completely right, it is very hard to accept but it is NOT about you, my H kept saying that to me 'you haven't done anything wrong, its not that I don't love you, I just lost my way, it's not about you, it's me etc etc' but he did get it out of his system eventually, sometimes I wonder if the people who know about us (not many) think I'm an idiot to stay with him as you say 'after he treated me that way' but when i think of everything we've been through and our three kiddies, personally I think in some ways it's harder to stay with them and wait for them to come to their senses and I figure if we get through this plus everything else we've been through we'll come out the better for it.
But i do still check his mobile phone bill every month so trust is taking time!!!!
(And yes I am lucky enough to be in the south of france and its really hot today!!!!) I really hope it works for you, I've identified with so much you've said, feeling sorry for him, mine broke down when it finally sunk in he couldn't see her any more, that I feel for you at this time but it can work and you certainly seem to have the perserverance to stick with it, good for you!!!! I'll keep checking in!

[Lauz]

You are also completely right, it is very hard to accept but it is NOT about you, my H kept saying that to me 'you haven't done anything wrong, its not that I don't love you, I just lost my way, it's not about you, it's me etc etc' but he did get it out of his system eventually...

My h told me this too. He said I had done nothing wrong and I was everything a wife could be! He apologised to me the other night that everything seemed to be about him, him, him at the moment, but he understands I have my own worries, concerns, dreams etc.

I guess without going through "this" yourself, we will never know why they do this and how they feel that makes them loose their way.

As you can see from my post (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4090&page=9), I feel things are moving on for us now too, but plenty to continue to work on.

[outoftheblue]

Still no contact at all. I wish I knew why, cos last week he was happy to talk to us etc. just can't think why he would stop so suddenly.

Am reallly worried that he might have done some thinking and even come to a decision, but will only tell us face to face. Could be good news I suppose, but getting a sick feeling it might be bad. Although it would be such a sudden shift from where he seemed to be before he went away, I don't know what would have prompted that.

This is soo hard and breaking my heart.

[huskypup]

OOTB

I really don't know what advice to offer, I do feel he owes you an answer one way or another though, at least then you will know what you are up against, and can prepare battle plans accordingly:) - sorry at my very poor attempt at a joke. If only they knew what they were doing to us all.

Big hugs.

Maybe a quick text just saying hello how are you and with some trivial information that he would like to know or how was your trip? I don't know what really to suggest. You are hurting either way. Knowing or not knowing.

[outoftheblue]

Curiouser and curiouser. We came home at 6.30pm to an answerphone message from him left at 6pm saying he would ring later. He sounded dreadful, though poss only a cold and he was probably in the car on way to his hotel. (He always used to ring us when he left the office and often again when he got to his hotel or again mid evening and always before bed to say night night!).

Anyway he didn't call back later at all.......................

Something is definitely up I just wish I knew what. I'm loathe to txt him as I think he's dealing with his demons and if I hassle at the wrong moment , it might annoy him/backfire on me.

Will have to soon though as there is a mountain of post for him which has been piling up since he went away.

[AnnieP]

Hang on in there OOTB. I haven't heard from H for 3 days now either... its so upsetting. I have decided to take the bull by the horns and not answer/respond when he DOES contact again, and am also ignoring MIL for a while.... Giving him a taste of his own medicine.
I am sure this is significant for you though.... praying its positive..xxx

[calmfornow]

Hi OOTB,

I've got my fingers crossed for you.
cfn. :)

[moonlight]

To be honest I didn't think I would ever be involved with posting on a forum, especially one relating to MLC !!

Well it's my first time and the reason for this is I feel that my H is going through MLC. We have had a terrible time over the last couple of months, "loves me, but not in love witH me, I could do better for myself, he's a pig etc .." I'm sure you've all heard it.

I was and to be honest still am devestated. I have taken a couple of days off work, been to the doctor for support but what can they do but sign you off or give you tablets. Both of us are really private people and don't share our problems with work colleagues or friends (which we don't have many of). Basically last night he hugged me and said I'm his best friend and can't we carry on as we are, being friends. I said no I need more than a friend. After the usual half an hour of me telling him to leave, then changing my mind to I'll leave we went to bed and both appeared to get a good nights sleep.

He's gone to work this morning after giving his "friend" a peck on the cheek, which to be honest is more than he usually does. I have looked at counselling as I feel I need some support (he wouldn't even consider that or even going to the drs as in his opinion MLC doesn't exist) but I/we can't afford it. I feel I need to start building a life for myself as a couple of months down the line he's probably going to have left me. Where do I start ? I'm considering moving out, perhaps that will shock him into realising he's making a mistake. I just don't feel I can play this supportive role that people suggest, I'm not strong enough to deal with it rationally and we'll only end up going round and round in circles. I don't want to leave and I love my husband, although I admit our marriage needs some work.....

[AnnieP]

Get yourself a copy of "I Love you, but I'm not in Love with you" and "the Five love languages".
Both great books for people in your situation.
I wish my husband was still at home... its impossible tryign to work on a relationship when they aren't.
Don't give up!

[jools]

Hi Moonlight
Hate to say this but you have to consider the likelihood of there being another woman involved. Men don't usually do this unless there is (MLC or not). Although they'll deny it to the end!

OOTB and Annie - I hope you both hear something soon.
Jools XX
________
Paxil withdraw (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/paxil/)

[befree]

Gullt and manipulation.It stands out glaringly in all the replies.I played that same game myself.It's all about smashing them with all the weapons you have when they hurt you,but giving them love when they come back or show the right signs.We all get caught up in the game.It's all about having someone else fill our needs and expectations and punishing them when they don't.I'm very sorry,but just because a person promises to proect and never hurt you in a letter 22 years ago doesn't mean they're not human and won't change.Other people are nt responsible for your happiness and welfare.Only you are.We all get stuck in the fantasy that we had the perfect relationship when we've been left or betrayed,but we often don't acknowledge the part we played in the breakdown.None of us were ever the 'perfect partner'
Things change.People change.What we all need to realise is that all of us have free will.We make decisions purely based on what we want.All our actions have a purpose.To beat someoneover the head when they don't do what we want but reward them when they do what we ask is like training dogs.
Get out of your heads and get on with your lives.Stop creating and manipulating and engaging.Not because it lets them off the hook but because you waste precious life staying in that place.There are no winners in the game of control and payback.How could you have a man back in your life when you resent him enough to seek every avenue to punish him.Why would you settle for a man that comes back out of guilt?Why do we all suffer from such rediculously low self esteem?
In the case of feeling like you lost out to the OW,getting your man back usually proves nothing but a momentary sense of being the winner,In the mean time you've encouraged the breakdown of the relationship between your partner and kids and will probably always have some measure of concealed contempt.
Why is it so important that we see they feel guilty for the rest of there lives after they've left us?

[Lauz]

The women and men on this site have made their own decisions in how they want to take their relationship forward or not. That is purely their decision based on their own situations, principles and respect for themselves and their relationship. We are here to support that and listen to them. It's up to them to decide if their decision was the right one or not down the track. Everyone here is an adult and they are big enough to realise the decisions they the make.

I know from my own experience that I do not regret the decision I made to stick by my h and help and support him. Things are progressing for us and if I had made the decision to leave him / throw him out, I know I would of regretted it for the rest of my life and frankly I was not prepared to carry that guilt of throwing it all in without trying. There is hope in these situations. I'm sorry you don't feel that way because I presume it didn't work out for you and your partner / h, but please don't shatter hope for others where there may be a chance for forgiveness and reconciliation.

I don't see any of my efforts as a "waste precious life". I value my life and don't have any regrets. I made the decisions I felt true to me and stuck to them. I think that shows great courage and determination and I've been rewarded from that.

[outoftheblue]

Befree I have just read your postings on other threads and now here you are on mine. None of your comments are helpful and just show you have been extremely hurt by the way your own relationship turned out. I am truly sorry for you and the bitterness that comes through your words.

I don't know how long you were with your h/partner and what he did to make you so vitriolic, but I think you need help, because to carry around such anger and sadness will destroy you.

I know it's easy to think we are all fools and to condemn those of us who still have faith in human nature, but you are the one who will lose out eventually, because with your current attitude you will never find peace.

You clearly think that loving yourself is more important than loving someone else - I disagree entirely. You talk of winning/losing, seeking every avenue to punish, always having some measure of concealed contempt. I don't know what world you live in, but I'm so glad it's not mine. Love is not a competition or a battle and I'm sad that you think it should be.

I am not playing any game of guilt and manipulation, although it's clear you think you play it very well. My h found himself in a very black place after the death of his father and behaved and is still behaving out of character. I have no wish to manipulate him or punish him for anything. He has to find himself and his way and whilst I am finding it very hard to cope with and stay strong I love him enough to try and for him to work this through.

You will note I called my thread 'How can I help him find his way home' not 'Punish the bastard cos he's hurt me'. Crucially he has got to 'find' his own way back, not through guilt but through his own process of growth and through knowing that everything he once held dear is still there waiting for him. I want to 'help him' not force him, because I want him to be here because he wants to be and nor will I want to punish him forever for failing to cope adequately with the death of his father.

You and I are very very different thankfully and whilst I may not be right and may not even get the outcome I long for, I would appreciate it if you didn't post your bitter advice on my thread anymore, because it goes against everything this site stands for and is not helpful or supportive to me at a time when I really need it.

[calmfornow]

Befree,
I don't think anybody on this board believes for one moment that they have been a perfect partner. There is no such thing. It would be an incredibly arrogant person to think that about themselves. There is also no such thing as a perfect marriage. We all know this but we owe it to ourselves and our children to do the very best that we can. As others have said, you have had a bad experience but it really isn't healthy to hold onto such bitterness. Things happen for a reason and we learn and grow from experiencing such things. Life is hard, bloody hard sometimes and it's how we get through those hard times that are key. Everybody here is doing there best under very difficult circumstances and it really isn't helpful to kick people when they are down.
cfn.

[Topsy47]

Hi OOTB
How's it going? Have you heard anything more?

Topsy
x

[befree]

Dear Blue,
I reread my post and admit it was harsh and full on.Reading over all the posts on this site brought a lot of painful memories to the surface and it's obvious after a year completely out that there are still many unresolved issues and memories for me.I'm not vitriolic or twisted and i wasn't meaning to attack you in the way it seemed.I still have a lot of anger directed at myself for not being able to exit a situation sooner which became about emotional blackmail and manipulation.I see from your other posts since then that you are coming from a place of more strength,even though some of it comes from your anger towards my post to you.More power to you.
And by the way,I do believe loving yourself first is the most important thing.You can't have healthy love for anyone else until you do

[outoftheblue]

Thank you for the honesty of your reply Befree. It is obvious you were badly hurt and it's natural to blame yourself a little, but the purpose of this site is to post your own thread asking for advice or support or offer advice and support to others on their posts.

None of us claim to be experts, I certainly NEVER expected to ever be here, but we try to offer a friendly ear and unconditional support as we seek a variety of reponses to help us look outside the box in dealing with our horrible situations. Others who don't know you with similar experiences can sometimes offer an insight you are too close to the issue to see.

However, I do feel your pain is clouding your judgement and whilst I think you are trying to stop some of us making the same mistakes you are so cross with yourself for making, you are not kind or thoughtful in your posting and to those of us who are feeling very vulnerable it is hurtful and unhelpful.

You have put me off bearing my soul to others about my own situation, because instead of friendly advice and mutual support I now realise I am putting myself and my life out there to be judged and criticised by people like you and I am just not strong enough to deal with that at the moment.

[calmfornow]

Ootb,
Please don't be put off from posting about your situation. Yes you are putting your life out there but please understand that nobody on here is judging you. We are here to support you and always will be. Occasionally we do seem to get the odd poster on here that offers a different viewpoint and that can only be good but obviously it should be done with tact. As you know, not everybody possesses tact but you certainly shouldn't let that stop you from getting the support that you need at this difficult time. I have read your recent replies to other posters and have to say that you have gained a lot of respect from me over time for your helpful and supportive input. Your replies are very insightful and I think that is because you are in a position of strength. You are strong ootb but we are here to support you and that is exactly just what we will continue to do.

Take care,
cfn x

[Lauz]

I agree OOTB. Don't be put off. Have not heard an update from you in a while. What's the latest?

[AnnieP]

OOTB. You have been a fantastic friend to me, we are so in the same situation. PLease continue to tell me what is happening in your life. It helps to know there are people out there who do understand.
We are here for you.

[samantha1974x]

You have offered me such kind words and support in my short time here.

Please dont let 1 person stop you from posting as you also need support x

[Topsy47]

OOTB - totally agree with the three or four posts above me! You have been a wonderful friend and voice of reason to me over the last couple of months and I appreciate that greatly.

Very few people on here judge each other and you can see from your thread the amount of support there is from the rest of us when it does happen.

please keep posting - we all want to know how you are doing

Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Hi guys thanks for your support. I'm on this site because I value your support and opinions even if they are not what I want to hear, but I'm afraid befree's attitude just frightens me.

Have seen the her latest posting today on someone else's site, I feel the comments are probably well meant, but seem to have a harshness to them which is off putting. Seeing that she is connected to women's shelters and standing up for battered women explains alot, about her feminist anti-men attitude. And the fact that she's an Aussie and therefore a long way away helps.

I am anything but anti-men and really really want my marriage and all it stands for to be mended.

Since my last posting, he finally got in touch last Friday (a whole week after he said he would). When I asked why? it was as I had hoped he was trying to sort his head out. Hurrah! He came over on Saturday and we had a reasonable time. Talked a little, but not enough but the shift that had started is still there. I asked him if he had turned the corner and he said no. But I then asked him if he was at the corner peering round he said yes probably!! I asked if he was still seeing OW and he said not much. Not exactly what I want to hear but a little step in the right direction. Hopefully it is coming to the end of its natural course or he has seen the grass isn't greener.

He has admitted he doesn't like himself at all at the moment, doesn't like what he has done to me, to our son, even to himself. This is huge progress from the 'I can do what I like' and 'this is who I am now' attitude of a few months ago.

It's so hard when he comes here I have so many questions and talking I want to do, but I don't want to put him off coming by badgering for answers he doesn't have etc. and by pushing too hard and pushing him away. Again I am ***** footing around him and being sensitive to his needs whilst ignoring my own, but I just sense this is how he needs to be to get through this and out the other side. If I demand too much he will retreat tortoise-like back into his shell. So the hard work on my part continues.

I did push a little and tell him I can't hang on forever waiting for him to decide if I'm good enough for him. I'm pretty certain that isn't how he is thinking, but it is how it feels from this end. And he was quite sheepish and said could I hang on a little longer? Which I hope is his way of saying I'm working this through and working my way back to you I just need to do it in my own time but I will get there eventually. Obviously being a typical male he couldn't actually say all that.

Maybe it's like the analogy on some one's thread about whilst he is drifting out to sea he needs to see me waiting for him on the shore as a fixed point to return to. I so hope so. It would be so cruel if he eventually turned round and said he wasn't coming back. But from his attitude it seems like OW is not the love of his life and he's not desperate to be with her, she's just part of his MLC depression etc. I really really really hope I'm reading this right, otherwise I'm going to look a bit of a prat amongst you lot especially befree!!

He wants to come here again this weekend and I asked if he was ready to do some proper talking he said yes - (although I suspect possibly not when it comes to it). I said he really needed to open up more and he has said he will. I also said it isn't just about what he wants but what I want as well and he said of course, in a way that led me to believe he really did care what I wanted - let's hope so eh?

I WILL keep you posted.
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Oh C, I am really keeping my fingers crossed for you this weekend.

From what you have said, it does seem that he is moving in the right direction. I think the pivotal thing is that he has asked you to wait a little longer - whilst it doesn't guarantee things are going to work out, it most certainly indicates that he still considers coming back to you as a serious option. Also, the fact that he is prepared to talk about some of his feelings is a big step - my H just brings the shutters down the minute we get onto anything emotional which totally prevents us having any meaningful conversations about how we feel or what is going on.

Make sure you keep us posted. I sooooooooooooooo hope you have some positive news to tell us. BUT... without wanting to sound a killjoy or wet blanket, if you don't get the news you want please don't think for one moment any of us will think you are a prat - we will all be here waiting to help you. Lets hope it doesn't come to that though!

Good good luck!

Topsy
xxxx

[befree]

Oh you're so right about me blue.I must be feminist quasi-lesbian man hater.Womens shelters exist for a reason.If a man was experiencing physical or emotional abuse from his wife I would give him the same advice.
When you read through more of the posts across this site,many of the men are giving the "kick their arse to the kerb" kind of advice and some have been way more opinionated than me.They get a completely different response from the women.
Don't let me stop you from spending the next 3 years of your life in your emotional bind.Some people take martyrdom from an occasional holiday to a permanent address

[outoftheblue]

Befree - If you had read my last post about you without your blinkers on you would have realised I was acknowledging where you were coming from and admiring your desire to protect others from a similar experience. Whilst abuse is not a subject I know anything about, it explains a lot about you and where your harshness and defensiveness come from, and I am sorry for you in that.

I do not think you are right however to apply your experiences to all situations and it certainly does not apply to mine and I resent the implication. You do not know me or my family and I can't believe you are so arrogant as to think you can be so rude to someone you have never met.

I feel sorry for you that you are so consumed with anger that you continue to attack even when you are being complimented and assume the worst in every situation. You call yourself "befree" but you will never be free when you are filled with such venom.

I do not like your tone towards me and would once again ask that you refrain from making incorrect assumptions about my life.

Please respect my request not to post your biased opinions on my thread!

[befree]

Befree - If you had read my last post about you without your blinkers on you would have realised I was acknowledging where you were coming from and admiring your desire to protect others from a similar experience. Whilst abuse is not a subject I know anything about, it explains a lot about you and where your harshness and defensiveness come from, and I am sorry for you in that.


"I'm on this site because I value your support and opinions even if they are not what I want to hear, but I'm afraid befree's attitude just frightens me. Have seen the her latest posting today on someone else's site, I feel the comments are probably well meant, but seem to have a harshness to them which is off putting. Seeing that she is connected to women's shelters and standing up for battered women explains alot, about her feminist anti-men attitude. And the fact that she's an Aussie and therefore a long way away helps." (Where's the compliment in that?)


I do not think you are right however to apply your experiences to all situations and it certainly does not apply to mine and I resent the implication. You do not know me or my family and I can't believe you are so arrogant as to think you can be so rude to someone you have never met.

I don't apply my experience to all situations or i'd be posting all over the place.You're only upset because you don't want anyone to tell you you are using emotional manipulation to win back your partner.Anyone that reads enough of your threads will see that.I never implied that your situation was abusive,rather that you were using manipulation which also involved your child.

I feel sorry for you that you are so consumed with anger that you continue to attack even when you are being complimented and assume the worst in every situation. You call yourself "befree" but you will never be free when you are filled with such venom.

I do not like your tone towards me and would once again ask that you refrain from making incorrect assumptions about my life.

I make assumptions purely based on what you've written

Please respect my request not to post your biased opinions on my thread!

And in return I hope you respect my request not include your opinions about what I choose to say to other people in your thread

[Topsy47]

Hi OOTB

How are you? I have been reading the thread and the posts by Befree have obviously upset you. I have my own thoughts on that but I think enough of your thread has gone off in the wrong direction and I won't incite things or make the situation worse by passing my comments!!!

As before, don't let this stop you posting. I genuinely care about your situation and want to know how you get on.

So, give us an all an update when you can

big hugs
Topsy
x

[Topsy47]

OOTB

How are you? No posts for a few days so just checking in to make sure you are ok

topsy
x

[ladybug1320]

I feel your pain. My husband also was unfaithful to me. However, my husband told me numerous times that he was going to divorce me once I delievered our son. (He couldn't until he was born though, because of child support issues and such). Anyway, I knew that it was up to me to bring my husband back to me. I turned to God. I went to counseling with my pastor who taught me the scriptures. I was challenged to do something to show my love to my husband every night before bed, even when I knew my husband was in the arms of someone else even hours before. It was the hardest assignment that I've ever been given. I started to change, I started living my life for God. I know it sounds cliche, but God is the only way. Show your husband God through your actions and pray. If you truly live your life for God, your husband will see hope and a new light will shine on you. Once I decided to lean on God, God made it so that my husband couldn't leave me even if he wanted to. He made my husband lose his job, so he couldn't make it on his own. Which in turn made us have to live together. The fact that I was pregnant also kept us living together. God hates divorce, so God will do everything He can to keep it from happening. He can't do it though if you don't have the faith. Your husband has to see your faith, and then with the hope of God he will develop his own. When you and your husband are both living for God, there God will be with you also. And your marriage will survive. God is the way home, and not only in this life, but the next. I know this, because I saw God work miracles in my own marriage. My husband is committed to me now. I'm still lonely because he can't be affectionate with me yet, and somedays it seems hopeless, but God has brought us this far, so I know he will bring us the rest of the way. If I wouldn't have been living for God, I would have lost my husband months ago. And my husband will be the first to admit that what I say is true. Good luck!

[outoftheblue]

Sorry to be gone so long. Was feeling very down and then when I tried to come back to you guys for support my internet disappeared. Have spent many frustrating hours on the phone to BT trying to get it sorted, 'cos I know nothing about this sort of thing, neither it would appear does BT. Just when I finally agreed to wait in forever for an engineer to call at a cost of £120 !! the internet reappears as suddenly as it went.

So quick update - things are moving very slowly but possibly in the right direction. Not as quickly as several posters here, but in the right direction nonetheless.

He came on Saturday and it was awkward 'cos he's still like a visitor, but obviously not quite so no one knows what to say or do or how to act, but we did manage to laugh at how awkward it was. Went for a drink as he had previously said he thought he was ready to talk, but it turned out he wasn't and I saw the shutters go up.

Anyway I managed with all my strength to remain calm and supportive and tried to get him to open up without pushing him further than he could cope with. Mixed success really, but I saw glimmers of my lovely old H and the look in his eyes pleading me to hold on for him, before the shutters went up and he couldn't look at me again.

Once back here, he did say it was starting to feel more like home again and he missed it and us. He told me not to keep searching for a logical explanation 'cos he cannot find one to explain what he is doing and he hates that just as much as I do. He hates himself and how he is at the moment and FINALLY FINALLY admits he needs to get help to deal with how he has bollocksed up his life and how to sort it out. He thinks he wants to come home but just doesn't know if he can ever put everything right and it is that fear of failing that is stopping him.

He left again a few hours later, he just can't bring himself to stay yet. Maybe too big a step and doesn't want to give us false hope until he is sure he can make the leap we are desperate for him to.

He did concede my analogy of his emotional situation was very accurate and also that he didn't resent me being able to understand him so completely - he said he found it comforting in a way!!!!

He appears to be distancing himeself from OW although that is not quite enough for me I know I cannot force the issue ...yet! He wants to come again for a visit this weekend and I have put the suggestion out there that he could stay , even if only in the spare room. He cannot commit to that yet and I would be surprised if he did, but thought I would let him know the offer is still there.

He also said in one of his phonecalls this week, how he really wants to find his old self - the guy he used to be.This is actually huge progress as for quite a while he was adamant this new guy was who he wanted to be. I knew his behaviour was out of character, and it seems he is finally realising this for himself. Baby steps for him on the road to recovery hopefully.

[Topsy47]

Hi OOTB

How lovely to have you back! Also it seems that things are going reasonably well and that progress is being made.

When is he coming over this weekend? I hope all goes well. I think you have done the right thing in offering to let him stay but not making a big deal about it.

Its definitely all sounding more positive than it has been...

topsy
x

[samantha1974x]

Hope all goes well this weekend .... thinking of you xxx

[AnnieP]

OOTB!
So nice to hear from you.
Keep the faith girl, its all tiny tiny steps. You may even have to take one or two backwards at times, but the general direction is forwards! He seems like he has done a bit of soul searching and not liked what he has found very much. Lets hope it is the first move towards finding some peace within himself so he can move on and you can get your life back instead of having it on hold!
I'm thinking of you.
xxx
xxx

[Topsy47]

H OOTB

Just a quickie to see how the weekend went - update us when you can. Have been keeping everything crossed for you!
Topsy
xxxx