I think all hope is lost.....

[Topsy47]

Hi! 5wks ago my husband told me it was over because he wasnt happy and felt the spark had gone from our relationship and that we were just friends. 4wks ago he moved out to his dads.

I have put a lot of this down to the fact that he lost his mum to cancer late last year and was depressed. I also think he suffers with obsessive compulsive disorder which has got worse while he has been down.

We are both seeing counsellors (separately unfortunately) and he refuses to try and work things out.

Today he came round and we talked about what to do next. I said that with us both seeing counsellors that maybe we should defer making big decisions til we are both a bit more sorted. He agreed but then it came out that he is only saying that cos he thinks he has put me through enough upheaval already and doesnt want to force things further.

He said today that for him, the love has gone from our relationship and he cannot see himself changing his mind. for the first time now it feels very real and very raw and I suddenly feel that I cannot live in hope anymore.

I still dont understand it all completely - he can't really explain why he doesnt feel love for me anymore. There is no third party involved, dont know if that is worse or better! I just feel so sad - in many ways we have had such a great relationship that I cant believe he wont even work at it. I would agree that things have been hard since his mum's death but it never occurred to me that it would be the end of our marriage.

I am angry, confused and upset. I'm particularly angry cos we were trying for a baby and he knowingly slept with me at the 'right time' less than 2wks before he said it was over. He is not normally irresponsible but that I find almost unforgivable.
he still sends mixed messages of being very caring towards me and even talking to me about superficial things as though nothing has happened. part of me wants to tell him to leave me alone for a bit but we need to stay in touch for the practical side of things and I want it to stay as amicable as possible.

I'm trying to be positive but I have hit that reality moment where I just know that its not going to work out as I wanted.

HELP!
Thanks
Topsy

[huskypup]

Oh Topsy I wish I could give you a hug, after all your kind words to me over the past couple of weeks, I know how much you wanted to try and sort it out.

There is nothing that I can say that will take away the pain that you are feeling, except we know what you are going through. The worse feeling in the world is realising that they don't love you, if there was someone else you would have a reason and an answer to your questions.

I have a moto which HB threw back at me but it is one that I do genuinly believe in

" I am the most important person in my life and if I am not happy I can not make those around me happy"

No-one knows why people do things and sometimes people don't know themselves, but everything happens for a reason - its just a pain waiting to find out why.

Take care

Nancy

[Topsy47]

Hi Nancy
Thanks for your reply.

I do know what you mean about not making other people happy if you are not happy yourself. I felt that if H could start sorting his own mind out, he'd realise that we could be happy together.

What was really horrible was that he said he resents me for the person that he has become. I'm not going to say I'm perfect but I have never done anything evil to him or tried to hurt him. I also think he needs to take responsibility for himself - you decide yourself what you become, you don't let someone else do it for you.

In a way it helps me to be angry with him - it masks some of the hurt and makes me more determined to go forward.

Although I am not going to rush things, I have decided that I will sort out selling the house sooner rather than later. I've suddenly realised that I never really loved this house - it was in an area in which I didnt ideally want to live but because H came from the area and we could get more house for our money, I compromised. We refurbished the house but when I say 'we', it was more him. I've realised how much he took control of the house even down to the housework - you might think thats a good thing but its not!!! Although I was involved in choosing colours and things, i just dont ever feel we did it together - his habit is to do things when he wants to do them and he doesnt always wait for me.

Its weird how these feeling suddenly start to come out and you only really see them retrospectively. I know that there are things I could and should have done differently but it would never occur to me to end my marriage over them.

i feel now that my best way forward is to get my own home - it feels like a backward step as I'll only be able to afford a flat but at least I can buy something.

I'm not looking foward to it but I think its what I am going to need to do.

Topsy

[huskypup]

Hi Topsy

How are you bearing up? have you had anymore contact with HB?

Todays the day that my HB goes to the Falklands for 4 months, a small part of me thought that he may phone and say goodbye, he seems to have just walked away from this part of his life.

Im sick of looking a mortgage companies and the thought of taking on such a big mortgage on my own fills me with dread.

if only they would realise what they are doing to us.

Huskypup (Nancy)

[outoftheblue]

It's amazing there are so many men out there who just seem to lose the plot and forget who they used to be and all the things they cared about and promises spoken and unspoken that they made.

My h used to be such a kind caring person, ringing me even if he was going to be 5 mins late. Knowing that I would worry he was in a ditch. Now he has no contact with me at all. Seems weird going off to the Falklands isn't worth at least a phone call, but it seems part of the compartmentalising that men do, so busy preparing and thinking ahead that you are literally out of sight and out of mind.

Are you like me spending days thinking well one day it will hit them. They'll suddenly realise what and who they've walked away from. Maybe this is just a female ideal and men have the capacity to just move on and think what's done is done and only look forward? I do find it almost impossible to believe my h doesn't think about us and what/how we are doing. But maybe he stops himself because he knows he is the cause of so much pain that he just can't face it/us. Maybe that's why you've had no phone call Huskypup?

I feel for you both Huskypup and Topsy47 it is soo hard for us just to switch off our feelings so suddenly.But maybe if we could then they can't have been that strong in the first place.

[huskypup]

Ive just been chatting to my step children on MSM, they are meeting there dad at 4, he is calling into see them on his way to Brize Norton, and taking them out for tea.

I miss them so much, but it is really hard chatting to them as well. I have not seen them now for 4 weeks and not spoken to them, I don't feel as if I have the right to phone them.

I wish I could just walk away from all of this.

[Topsy47]

Hi Everyone! thanks for your posts.

outoftheblue - I know exactly what you mean, I definitely think there will be a day where he suddenly turns round and realises what he's given up. It might not be for a long time yet but I think it will happen.

I had a really really good session with my counsellor yesterday. We talked a lot about H's behaviour and she is now more convinced than ever that a lot of his problems are down to OCD as well as the loss of his mum. What she was basically saying to me is that the things he is unhappy about are mostly out of my control - in other words, its NOT MY FAULT! Thats always good to hear. It also helped explain some of the things he has been doing.

Sadly it doesnt change anything and she also said that even if we ever worked things out, this OCD would probably still be an issue between us. It manifests itself in his cleaning of the house - I used to just think he was very houseproud but its more than that. I allowed him in the house yesterday cos he was going to mow the lawn and stuff (he still wants to help me) and when I came home it reminded me of a scene from the film 'Sleeping with the Enemy'. Nothing that sinister but just that he'd moved things in certain ways and refolded some towels - things that would maybe look normal if he was still living in the house but which are definitely not necessary if you have moved out.

Sorry... long post here and actually just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this sort of behaviour?

Huskypup, I really do sympathise with the children issue - I think that must be something that makes it 10 times worse. At least they are staying in touch with you though and hopefully you can maintain a relationship with them. where are they staying while HB is away?

Re the mortgage, are you planning to stay where you are? I did think about this as I could possibly just about buy H out but I figured I'd have a house full of memories and no life as I'd never be able to afford to go out. so I am planning to downsize to a flat - me and the cat don't really need a 3 bed semi! Good luck

topsy

[huskypup]

Hi Topsy

Children are now living with their mum in High Wycombe which is two hours drive from here.

I can't afford to buy HB out of house, I do belive that he planned all of this months ago, 4 months ago we remortgaged the house, we paid off all of our loans and credit cards, this has left me with no credit in my name - the only trouble is it has reduced the equity in the house.

We live in a village and ideally I would love to stay here, I could just about afford a two bed house with an equity mortgagem, where as I owe 80% and a mortgage company own the other 20% and I have the right to buy back a % each year. I have a second job which I will need to be able to afford the house, so moving away from the village would be impractical.
I can't rent anywhere as no-one will rent to me with 2 dogs and 4 cats. The mortgage is going to cost me a stupid amount each month though.

I still can't belive that he has gone away without even texting to say goodbye, I knew this day was coming.

Topsy regarding your HB coming to the house and doing the things that he would normally do, HB did that last week, he came in and I had a mug on the dining table, he picked it up and washed it out then put it in the dishwasher, then wiped the sides down in the kitchen, when I got annoyed at him, he said it was force of habit.

Feel very sad today, until day, deep down I still thought there was a very small chance - now there isn't.

[outoftheblue]

Huskypup,
I understand why you feel down, but all hope isn't necessarily lost. It's just on hold for a while. The Falklands is a very bleak and lonely place so he'll have plenty of time to think and it may be just what he needs. Can't remember if he's RAF, but if he's stationed with lots of other chaps some will be married/dating etc and will gets letters emails etc and maybe even talk about how much they miss their family (you never know what men might talk about when they're all alone and no one's listening). Anyway he might feel left out and open up to someone. There's all sorts of possibilities that might give you hope that this will do him good.

Also as for his children, don't know how long you were their step-mum for and if you got on with their mum. but I don't see why if you had a good relationship with them there is any reason why you can't still see them. They are probably as confused as you and need to know that you don't blame them. Obviously he has done this twice now, once to their mum and now you,I really think staying in touch email,txt MSM would be important for all of you. And if you did get on with their mum maybe meet all of them for a meal or something halfway. Their mum would probably be pleased you are interested in her childfren's welfare. Remember their Dad dumped her too so she knows what he is like.
Good luck

[huskypup]

HB has done this three times now, his first wife, he decided that it wasn't going anywhere, but apparently that was mutual decision, his second wife (mother of children) had an affair and they couldn't work through it, she was pregnant with OM child, and now there is me.

We have been together for 8 years and married for 3. I have an ok relationship with the childrens mum, and she has said the children can come down and visit when they want to, but it must be them that instigates it and not me, I text and chat to the daughter (14) and today I had an email from son (11) I have told them both they can come and stay when they want to, but I don't think they will, along time ago we worked out that the children had two sides depending on which parent they were with (not horrible - they just go with the flow) and now they are with their mum permantley, I don't think I'll see them again, even when I asked today what son wanted for his birthday, he asked me for a game and could I send it to him as he didn't think he would see me for a long time.:confused:. They have friends in the village that we live in and they come and see them sometimes, so I expect sometime they will just turn up for a few minutes.

HB loves the Falklands it is his 5th tour there, I'd actually prefer it if he had gone to Iraq as there's nothing like a war zone to put things into perspective and I don't mean that to sound as sarcastic as it has come out.

Her has said that he is unhappy but it will only be a tempory thing as soon as he gets back he can apply for a families quarter and he can start again with his life, he has never been single, he met his second wife 3 weeks after seperating from his first wife and met me 2 months after leaving second wife - he hates his own company and hates the idea of anyone having an affair - as he had it done to him.

I am so hurt - again.

Sorry Topsy for hijacking your thread.

[Topsy47]

Hi Huskypup - no apologies needed, these threads are for all of us!
I'm just having a quick log-in before bed so talk to you tomorrow
Take care
Topsy

[huskypup]

Just checking hows' it going Topsy, any further forward?

Nancy

[Topsy47]

Hi Huskypup! thanks for checking up on me - I've had a weird week and just didnt feel like doing much at all. I've left you a message on your thread.

Things with H are just so surreal that I CANNOT get my head round it at times - even my counsellor raised her eyebrows!

Basically he had a week off work and I let him have a key for the house as he was going to do a few maintenance jobs. I hated the whole week as every time I came home from work I could see signs that he had been there - but they weren't nice little things that he had done for me, it was all tidying up sort of stuff. I've mentioned that I think he is OCD and this just totally opened my eyes to how bad it was - even to the extent of refolding some of my laundry cos I hadn't done it how he does! I was away on the Fri night so I asked him one favour to feed the cat on Sat morning which he agreed to - when I arrived home Sat afternoon, he was in the house, having just swept the front drive (don't think it even needed doing, he is just obsessive!). In retrospect, I know he has always been a bit obsessive compulsive but it didnt have a negative impact. My counsellor thinks he has a real problem at the moment but obviously not much I can do.

One thing we've always done together is watch our local footie team and we had already bought our season tickets before he left. It was our first home game on Sat and we agreed to sit in our normal seats next to each other. He was so chatty and friendly the whole time and it almost seemed like things were 'normal'. When he's with me, he is so nice that I cant work out why he wants out of all this.

Anyway... I've made a couple of decisions. I've got somebody coming to value the house next week - fortunately a friend's hubby is an estate agent so its all quite discreet and unofficial just so I can get an idea of value. I was seeing selling the house as a real nail in the coffin but, with all the OCD problems and the fact that I never wanted to live in this particular area anyway, I've realised that moving on will be good for me whatever happens. H has said that he would want to go out on a Friday night but the stress of all he had to do in the house would stop him (not normal behaviour eh?!). I feel now that so many of our problems are rooted in this place - if he moved back in we would be tip-toeing round each other. So... if we sell up then a) I get myself a flat and become independent party girl (!) or b) he comes back and we get somewhere together and start afresh.

this week has been weird as he has usually been in regular contact but haven't heard anything from him since Monday - doesn't sound much but I think this is the longest period we have gone without any contact at all.

I'm trying to be positive but I think I am just hyper at the moment with everything going on. I could really do with taking a week or so off work but its hard cos work is manic plus I may need to save my annual leave if things progress quickly with the house. Incidentally, havent actually told H yet that I am ready to sell - I am getting all my background info first so I know exactly where i stand.

Topsy

[AnnieP]

Topsy, I have weeks like that too. I think it is just our bodies recharging and I think it is important.
Good on you for making plans. I agree, he doesn't need to know until you have got it all clear in your head.
I know just how you feel over the lack of contact. This week I have spoken to him on teh phone for 8 and a half minutes, received 1 email and a tiny bit of communication on MSN.
It is actually me who is trying to reduce this, but I just find it so hard to resist whenhe is initiating the conversation. I KNOW the more I tell him, the less homesick he will be, but I will run on...... I need a zip for my mouth sometimes.
It is so strange when conversations you have with them are happy, relaxed and "normal". I guess it is good for them to see that you can be like this. It must help them to believe a little bit that maybe things could be ok?
Topsy, have you ever considered that your H might have Asperger's syndrome? He may not, but they display OCD.
Is he intense abot certain things, has huge knowledge/interest in specific things?

[Topsy47]

Hi Annie

Its really odd that you should mention the Aspergers syndrome as this is something that my counsellor also asked. She mentioned the link with OCD and also said that it can run in families particularly in men. H's brother is autistic (but as he is mentally handicapped from meningitis as a baby its hard to say if this is a result of his illness or whether he would have been autistic anyway). However, his nephew who is 9 does have Aspergers Syndrome and I have noticed before that there are some similarities in behaviour. i think if H did have this type of condition then it is quite mild but its something that I have previously considered even before all this happened as he really likes to have his routines and yes he does get very focused on certain things that he is interested in.

Its certainly a consideration but I don't think he would take me seriously if I tried to suggest it

Topsy

[AnnieP]

No, I don't suppose he would, but it would be good for you to see how this would affect your interactions with him.... There is a book about relationships with autistic partners... Let me have a hunt around....

[Topsy47]

Thanks Annie, that would be really good.

Having just mentioned that I haven't heard from him for several days I've just had an email. It was to tell me something that he had already told me on Monday and then asked if me and the cat were OK. It feels like it was just an excuse to make contact.... he must be missing me a bit :-)

[AnnieP]

Here is the link Topsy:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Other-Half-Asperger-Syndrome-Relationship/dp/1899280375/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/026-0426152-5646067?ie=UTF8&qid=1187865733&sr=8-7

[outoftheblue]

Hi Topsy,

Read with interest the comments about OCD and Aspergers. I work with preschool children with Autism so know a little about this (although not in adults).

It certainly sounds like he is missing you and the need for him to come round and tidy up maybe part of him trying to get some order/normality back in his life. The stress of losing his mother and then your break-up would easily exacerbate the OCD problems.

From the family history you give it is very likely he may be on the autistic spectrum and although he wouldn't admit it now, one day it might help him understand himself a little better. Does he have much contact with his nephew, because your h would be the best person to help him and in having that contact it might help your h to see areas where he himself is affected.

Most of us are on the autistic spectrum somewhere and it is more common in males. It is often referred to as an extreme male brain.Think train spotters or anyone with a particular obsession with a special subject. Even certain jobs are more attractive to people further on the spectrum eg. accountancy or computer programmers. That doesn't make them odd it is just their mind prefers regular order and the purity of numbers etc rather than the disorder and randomness (if that is even a word) that other unpredictable jobs provide.

Don't know what your H does for a living but he if he does have Aspergers then social interaction/relationships are a particular area of difficulty for him. He may have trouble reading facial expressions, understanding implied instructions and even have difficulty with familiar sayings such as I'm 'dying' for a drink, as he may take things more literally than they are intended.

If he is feeling particularly stressed then the house move might be difficult for him. He needs order and familiarity in his life to feel calm .

None of this may be relevant to your H but I thought some background info might help.

Let us know
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hi OOTB (hope you don't mind me abbreviating!)

The autism/aspergers possibility is definitely an interesting path - in some areas he seems to show traits but not in others. The main one is that he doesn't take things literally and he can read facial expressions.

However, he does get very fixated on things. He is totally dedicated to going to the gym to the point of obsession and that then spread to his diet too. He is a big fan of Bruce Springsteen and has every CD possibly available. Basically if he is interested in something then he becomes totally fixed on it and really looks into it.

another thing is that he can be very anti social. he is fine with groups he knows but doesn't like situations with groups of new people or where he thinks he might feel out of place. He also doesn't interract much with people at work. Incidentally, he works in desktop publishing which can be quite a perfectionist sort of thing. He has been in the same job for well over 10yrs which also demonstrates his need for familiarity, he is not a risk taker.

I have previously thought he might be borderline autistic particularly because he does interract well with his nephew and they have some similar traits.

Of course, its impossible to say with any certainty one way or the other but he does display some symptoms. I would say that there is almost no doubt that he suffers with OCD as, again, that is something I have previously thought but it wasn't having a negative impact on his life or particularly affecting him - like you say, its only since the death of his mum that its got much worse.

I hear what you are saying about the house move unsettling him and in many ways it will. However, I think he is in a sort of 'security bubble' living at his dad's so that should soften things considerably. Its a very hard decision to make because I think selling up is the best move for me at the moment and, without wanting to be horribly selfish, I have to put myself first right now - at the end of the day, it is him who has left me and he has given me NO sign at all that he will change his mind on this.

Its sooooo hard knowing the right things to do. I think if I had understood him better beforehand we might not be in this situation now but hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Topsy
x

[calmfornow]

Hi Topsy,
Just want to add my pennies worth. You are not being selfish with the house move. You have to look after yourself in this situation. He isn't thinking of you is he? Be strong for yourself only. :)
Take care,
cfn. x

[outoftheblue]

Topsy,

I hear what your saying about the house move being right for you and agree you must do what is best for you. But if he is on the spectrum you don't want to alienate him or be seen in his eyes to be antagonising him, by deliberating unsettling him. A house move is very anti OCD!!

Have you discussed selling the house with him? If not maybe it would be a good way to see if it does still mean anything to him or if as you suspect he is in a bubble at his Dad's. Weird that my H seems to be in a bubble too. Security blanket stuff I suppose.

Maybe since his Mum died he has regressed a little and he feels safe with his Dad. Whilst his mum was alive he felt secure enough to spread his wings and be with you, but now she's gone he's run back home. Obviously he's a grown man, but spectrum difficulties would still be inate and certainly what you say about social interaction and other things would point to this.

Try bearing these things in mind and it might help you to realise maybe he cannot help acting this way, but with the right reassurance he might face up to losing his mum and learn to spread his wings again back to you.

Wishing you all the best
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hi! Thanks for your posts.

I am certainly going to discuss selling up with H as obviously its half his house too.

At the moment I think I am just doing a few things without talking to him yet as I want to have all the information to hand and be practical about it.

I agree that selling up is probably going to unsettle him greatly and, as I still love and care for him, i really wish there was a gentle way of doing it. The problem is that he is giving me no hint at all that he will try and work at our relationship and I am just not the sort of person who can live in limbo.

He did have his own flat for two years before we bought our house together so I think that, knowing he's coped fine before, the thought of moving on might not unsettle him as much as it might.

It all makes me so sad, its not just the breaking up but all the knock-on effects and unpicking the two lives that you worked so hard to bring together.

Topsy

[Topsy47]

Hi everyone

Well, I had someone round to value the house on Tuesday - fortunately my friend's hubby is an estate agent so he has been v helpful and is even going to give me a reduced commission rate which helps with money!

I am sorting out an appointment with our current mortgage lenders cos only a few months ago we tied into a fixed rate - could wring H's neck for allowing that to go ahead if, as he reckons, he was already thinking of leaving.

Once that is all done, I shall discuss things with H and see how he reacts. Based on the comments below about unsettling him and stuff, I plan to be quite gentle - I need his permission for us to sell anyway. Its all v difficult but I am trying to be positive by scouring RightMove.com for places that I can afford!

Still can't work H out. He's completely withdrawn from contacting me - he was emailing or texting every day at first. Now he seems to wait for me to contact him although when I do he replies very quickly. We will see each other for football on Sat - the other week he chatted completely normally to me throughout the game. Strangely, there is a home game in about 2wks that I cannot go to and I tried to be nice and offered him my season ticket if he wanted to invite a friend - he said that he probably wouldnt go to the game either but didnt have much of a reason. Of course I now think that he isn't going cos I wont be there! Funny how you read into things what you want to read!

He's also taken next Monday off work and has said that he will come and do the back garden - he only did this a couple of weeks ago so rather odd. Also, he just makes the decision to do this and doesn't talk to me first other than to ask me for a key. Its weird.

On another subject..... I know many of you are pet lovers! I have an old cat (14 years) and the last few days she hasn't eaten anywhere near as much as usual. I think it might just be cos its been hot weather - has anyone else noticed this with their pets? I also wonder if she might be pining for H a bit - although she is 'my' cat, he did fuss her quite a lot and he hasn't been to the house for a couple of weeks so maybe she is missing him. I just worry cos the last thing I could cope with right now would be something happening to my little cat.

thanks
Topsy

[outoftheblue]

Hi Topsy,
I think your H is missing you and he doesn't ring/txt unless you initiate could be guilt/fear at rejection etc. The fact that he responds straight away tells you he really wants/needs to hear from you. Also at the football he needed to chat to you normally like it used to be before the other stuff got in the way, it's telling that he can do this and that he wants to and if you aren't there it won't be the same.
I am the same reading into everything my H says and looking for answers. Sometimes there's no reason, but sometimes I think they really are sending us subliminal messages.

Taking a day off work to do the garden when it's only recently been done is another example. Can you be there too? If you can again try to keep it 'normal' and how it used to be. I think he needs to know it's possible and would remind him what is missing. It is what I have been trying to do with my H, show him what a great life we had, what a great wife I am and what the hell is he doing walking away from such fantasticness. A little deluded and over the top but you get my drift.

Keep an eye on your cat, she could be depressed picking up on your mood etc. but see the vet if you're still worried if only to put your mind at rest.

Take Care
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Thanks C

I didn't know if I was reading too much into things and just seeing what I wanted to see in his actions. He has said he wants to stay friends so sometimes I think his actions are just being friendly but then I will think that someone who doesn't still have genuine feelings wouldn't go to quite so much trouble.

We spoke briefly on email today as he is paying half the mortgage and I told him I'd confirm if the standing order he'd set up went into my account OK. So I mailed and said the money was there and then just that I hoped he was having a good week. He then came back to me and talked about a couple of other things so we swapped a couple of emails but then I didnt hear back from him again. I actually think he could be missing me cos when he first left, it was always me who ended the conversations cos I didn't want him to think I was desperate to chat. I wonder if that is how he is feeling now or whether he just doesn't really want to talk too much.

Unfortunately I can't take the Monday off otherwise it would be a good idea. However, we have got the football again on Sat so hopefully can have a nice chat then and see how things go. I don't think he talk to his male friends in the same way he talks to me so it is possible that he is missing that side of our relationship.

Thanks - I'm glad I'm not the only one that tries to read something into every word he says!!!

P
x

[outoftheblue]

Try and be a good friend with H enjoy the football keep things low key and he will start to see how lovely you are and hopefully how much he misses the closeness with you.

I think that men put up these walls to keep feelings out and then find they can't break through them again.
My H is like that at the mo, when he came last Sunday he walked in and hugged and kissed me on the cheek. But the rest of the time he kept his distance. So the greeting hug was same as he'd do for maiden aunt etc.

I have thought at times if I could just stroke his head or hold his hand I'd be able to reach through that wall and pull him back. But when we were talking and sitting quite close I did reach for his hand and he pulled away. Was he trying to be hurtful, does he find me repulsive, does he only want her or is he frightened the contact will break down his barriers and he's not ready, willing or able..... Who Knows?...............

Don't make my mistake, but be as close and friendly as you can for now and just enjoy the footie together.

Have fun
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Agghhhhhh!!!!

Why is it all so complicated??! I am getting mixed signals yet again. I SO want them to be signals that he wants to reconcile but I know if I ask him he will say no.

He came over to the house this morning to pick up some post and also to take something to be repaired - I don't drive so there have been a few things that I have asked for his help on - I don't want to rely on him but if its something to do with the house then I think its fair to still ask him as its still his house too.

Anyway... I ended up taking yesterday off work - I wasn't feeling too great and I was also still worried about my cat who seems to be depressed. He asked if I was OK so I told him about the cat and he was telling me not to worry and that he was only round the corner if I needed him to take her to the vets or something. I explained that I'd spoken to the vets and they think it could be all the change thats gone on thats unsettled her and I said 'she misses you' and I thought he was going to cry. I know it sounds silly but part of me was so jealous that he was on the verge of tears over the cat missing him but if I were to say I missed him, he prob wouldnt bat an eyelid.

Later we met for the football - we didnt go there together but just met at our seats. And it was like the other week where he just chatted normally and we had a laugh and enjoyed it. I had a couple of friends coming over this evening and I was meeting one of them at the footie ground but H didn't hang around to see him. He said it would be too awkward even though he knows this couple as well as I do.

It was just so weird at the game today - something happened and I nearly put my head on his shoulder like I would normally have done and I had to hold back. I felt like everything was 'normal' and now reality has hit in a bit and I now see it more like what I will be missing.

He asked a few things about what I had been up to. There was an odd thing from a few weeks ago when he had seen me walking down the road in an area he wouldn't have expected to see me. At the time, he made some comment to try and get me to say what I'd been doing there and strangely he brought it up again today which I find odd - thought he would have forgotten, but he is obviously interested in what I have been doing. He also asked about a few other things I've been up to.

I found out that he was at the gym last night and wasnt going out tonight - I just felt relieved as I keep expecting him to say he's met someone else or something, maybe thats just paranoia.

I've really felt all over the place the last couple of days - I've been really strong but now feel like I am crumbling a bit. I have to confess its that time of the months so it could all be a bit hormonal as well - even that annoys me as the only reason I am not on the pill is that him and I were meant to be trying for a baby! At 36, nearly 37, I'm worried I'm going to lose my chance to have a family.

So... aggghhhhhhhhhhh is how I am feeling today as everything seems upside down and inside out!

I need to feel rational and positive again!

Topsy

[huskypup]

Hi Topsy

Hope little topsy is ok, I have 2 dogs and 4 cats, the dogs were terrible when HB decided to go, they are getting better now, our old cat Lucy is reallly missing him, she used to sleep between us, she won't even come into the bedroom now:(, she spends alot of time outside, the vet said the same as yours she will come round, and all the stress is unsettling her.

I know what you mean about the clock ticking, HB never wanted anymore children as he had two, I was never happy about it, but I loved him and went with the flow as I had/have two lovely stepchildren who I treat as my own, until now, he has gone, though I chat to the children on MSM, I haven't seen them in 7 weeks or spoken to them, he has taken them from me as well, I am 36 and one of the things that I am angry about is that he has probably taken away from me now my only chance of having a family, it makes me very angry and extremely sad.

I have single friends but they all have children, and I see them all together and see what has got them through, I sit here cuddling my dogs, I love them with all my heart and treat them as my children, but they don't answer me back (Ok Mia does she howls) and they don't tell me they love me.

Im not sure whether it is better to have communication with HBs or not, yours acts like there is nothing wrong around you and mine has cut off all contact (still not replied to emails). I wish I had a magic wand and could make it better for all of us, we deserve better than this.

[jools]

At 36, nearly 37, I'm worried I'm going to lose my chance to have a family. I really do feel your frustration on this one, Topsy. That's why "limbo" is a dangerous place for you to be right now. You really do need to know (from a purely practical point). I don't think men have a biological clock. He needs to decide one way or another and you need to know. As you said earlier... I am just not the sort of person who can live in limbo. He'll probably take the usual coward's way out and leave you to make the final push. You can't stay where you are much longer, Topsy.

And you too, Huskypup I am 36 and one of the things that I am angry about is that he has probably taken away from me now my only chance of having a family, it makes me very angry and extremely sad. It's no where near too late for you either! So ditto everything I said for Huskypup. You're right - you both deserve a better deal. But I don't reckon you're gonna get it from your present men. Think you're both gonna have to get it for yourselves (and you can!)
Jools
________
Ipad Accessories (http://accesoriesipad.com/)

[Topsy47]

Hi Jools

Thanks for the input on this - as it happens, I totally agree with you. I cannot and won't stay in limbo in the hope that he will change his mind.

I definitely plan to move on but I am having to take parts of it slowly so that I can cope with it myself. I had the house valued last week and this coming week I have an appointment with my mortgage lender to see where I stand. Then I am going to talk to H about putting the house on the market. You are right about him leaving me to make the final push - he didnt move out to his dads until i said him staying at our house was doing my head in.


Huskypup - little Topsy is a bit better thanks although I dont know how she will be when I am back at work tomorrow. I have put a bowl of food upstairs near where she sleeps as I think sometimes she can't be bothered to go downstairs for it, she isn't the most active of cats at the best of times. I have tried to fuss over her a bit and the amount she has eaten has increased over the last 2 days so fingers crossed.

the contact with H is a difficult issue! I don't want to sever it right now because we have to deal with the house stuff and its easier to keep it friendly. At the same time, its hard to talk 'normally' when everything feels anything but normal!

I noticed yesterday that he looked a bit of a mess (hadn't shaved etc) and also he was harrassed when he arrived at the footie cos he had been rushing around and then left the house without his ticket and earlier in the day he forgot to take his post when he left our house. As an OC, its unusual for him to leave the house without stuff - he is definitely struggling in some ways.

As for the children issue - Huskypup I think we both have to be positive on this one. Plenty of women don't have their first kids til 40ish these days so we haven't lost our chances completely!

Topsy
x

[jools]

As for the children issue - Huskypup I think we both have to be positive on this one. Plenty of women don't have their first kids til 40ish these days so we haven't lost our chances completely! Absolutely! My best friend met her H at 40 and had her first child at 45.

There's never a "right" time to become separated. If you'd had a baby, then it would be "How awful to be deserted and left to cope alone with a young baby." And then it's harder to meet someone else. At least you've got the chance of finding a more stable father for your future children.
My girls are in their teens - so they were aware of what was happening (although it still upset them). But I had no worries about ow playing "happy families" with my girls as they'd have ripped her head off if they'd met her (their words). BUT I had/have the problem of meeting men at "my age" - although I'm very well preserved as I run a lot and train. However, when my H had me floating in limbo (will he/won't he) I actually said "Make your bloody mind up - while i'm still hot enough to pull! Don't you dare hang around for another 5 years and then go!" That was my dilemma. My age (for different reasons). Also, i'm a bit old for clubbing. I know women of my age do - but it looks SO undignified and desperate. My H still didn't make a move to go, so I downloaded his mobile phone bills which told its own story. That was the day our marriage ended. I've just had the worst year of my life - but i'm no longer in limbo and I honestly believe that in the long run i'll be better off. I'm completely over him and I know that within the blink of an eye my life could be perfect - and that blink will be when I meet the man that I fall in love with (please God!)
Anyway - i'm just trying to say - there's never an ideal time but once you do think it's hopeless then don't waste any more time.
Jools XXX
________
Expert Insurance (http://xpertinsurance.com/)

[Topsy47]

Hi Jools

Thanks, its really good to hear from someone who has come out the other side so to speak.

I do worry about meeting another man as I am not so well preserved!!! Have always had weight issues and unfortunately I'm at one of my heavier stages right now which doesn't help my self confidence. BUT.... that in itself is no reason to sit around and feel sorry for myself.

I think I struggle with losing all hope of a reconciliation - not sure if you have read all my threads but there is no OW - so in my mind, if he can get through some of his emotional and mental issues that exist right now, there is no reason why we couldn't work things out.

That all said, I have made a decision to move forward and get on with things - I'm definitely at an age where, if I am to get what I want from life, I can't just put things on hold and wait for something that might never happen. Its hard when you are in a situation that you don't want to be in but you just have to get up and get on with it all.

YOu sound like you've really got your head screwed on right and I admire the way you have dealt with things and moved on. I do honestly believe I can be happy again (with or without H) but I think my main problem right now is that fear of the unknown and the feeling that a rug has been pulled out beneath me!

I think I'm rambling now but I just wanted to say thanks for your positive encouragment.

Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Don't despair Topsy tho I can understand you're sinking a bit at the mo. I think we all get like that every so often. I suppose the hope is that those moments get less and less, but may always be with us and catch us unawares mourning for what we have lost through no fault of our own.

I still think your H is going through a crisis and all the things you say about his appearance and unOCD behaviour would point to depression. I do think from what you have said he is missing you -esp about seeing you in an unusual place - if he didn't care about you it wouldn't still be bugging him.

I know everyone else is saying move on, but I think you should still be treading carefully. Yes do all the practical stuff re the house etc. but keep H involved. Esp tell about the cat. I think the tears weren't just for the cat, but for everything he is missing.
He might be in a black place at the mo - but little things like having a laugh at the footie will help him to realise there is a light out there and it's you. You never know he may have wanted you to put your head on his shoulder. Those moments are awkward for both of you but he may be craving you affection but is in too dark a place to reach out to you. I think men handle things far differently to women and pride/stubborness play a role too.

Try and be the best friend you can to him at the mo. By staying in control you will feel better about yourself, but will also give him an anchor whilst he is adrift. Whether he chooses to use it, only time will tell, but I think he still needs you and if you can, I would be there for him for now.

Take care and hope your cat is ok.
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hi!

Well, the good news first of all is that my cat Topsy has improved loads and even woke me up this morning demanding food! I've been trying to play with her more and fuss her more and it seems to have had an effect.

I took the big step today of seeing my mortgage lender. I was concerned as we tied into a fixed rate just a couple of months ago and, if we do sell up, I thought we might have to pay a penalty. The good news is that if H agrees to it, I can take the mortgage over in my name and take it to a new property - it will save us about £2k in penalties. They've also confirmed that I can borrow the sort of amount I was looking for so, although I still don't want to be doing this, the news is good on a practical side.

I have thought long and hard about how to approach H with all this. My counsellor has been on hols but i am seeing her on Monday and have decided to wait until I have had a chat with her before talking to H.

Outoftheblue - thanks for your words below. I am trying to be a friend to him at the moment whilst at the same time holding back a little - its hard to open yourself up completely for fear of rejection and more hurt. We haven't had contact for a couple of days as I have been on a couple of meetings for work and we don't tend to get in touch of an evening. However, I will contact him tomorrow and update him on Topsy (the cat) and also find out what he is doing on Sat as he is prob coming round.

The OCD is still very apparent. He did my lawn for me on Monday when he had a day off - and when I got home there were evident signs of him in the house! He had even tidied up the cupboard under the bathroom sink. There were other small things as well - its a bit frustrating in some ways but I haven't brought it up as I don't want to antagonise him.

I keep hoping that the thought of selling up the house will really bring things home to him and he might have a change of heart. And before anyone worries, i am not calling his bluff - if he doesn't want to try again then i fully realise that I do have to move on, I guess this is the one big thing that might make him think of all the consequences.

Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Well done Topsy it sounds like you are doing a great job. You've mended the cat and you're dealing with the practical stuff hard though it is.

I think when your H starts to seeing stuff boxed up for a move it will really hit home and it might freak him out. The OCD is bad cos he's obviously stressed at the mo which shows he's not really happy with the way his life is going, so stick with it and keep being friendly and supportive but detached.

It's what I'm trying to do but it's really hard isn't it especially when all you really want is a cuddle and for things to be how they were.
Keep being as strong as you are and take care
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hiya! Its been a v weird weekend for the way I feel - one minute I'm great and then I'm sad.

I've been psyching myself up to talk to H about the house - re my post below, I was going to talk to my counsellor for some moral support but she is now unavailable for another two weeks (can't complain as I get to see her for free through work!). I could wait til I've seen her but now I know where I stand with the mortgage and stuff, there seems little point in really waiting around.

At the same time, H seems to have really withdrawn from me at the moment. We had a couple of emails during the week but this weekend has been odd. He was coming round on Sat and I told him I'd be in in the morning but, as he currently has the spare keys, he could come in the afternoon as well (he was coming round to sort out his cactus plants!). Anyway, he came round after I'd gone out and when i texted him to ask if all was OK he didnt reply.

As usual, when I got home I found signs of his OCD - my cans of drink in the fridge had been tidied and odd things like that. I am not sure if the way he has been is totally to do with me - he is living back at his dad's and his dad looks after H's mentally handicapped brother. I ran into his dad on Friday and he is really struggling at the moment - the brother is very hard work and I think H's return to the house has probably disrupted things. So, it looks like H has moved into quite a stressful situation which, of course, was what he was trying to escape from.

On the plus side.... yes there is one! I went to the Last Night of the Proms yesterday evening and it was absolutely fantastic!!! Me and my sister have made some friends there over the weeks and we all met up in the queue and had a picnic with champagne and strawberries etc. The concert itself was fabulous and I felt on a real high. It struck me that I only started going to the Proms because H left - I wouldn't have done it normally. So, its made me realise that there are some great new things out there for me to try and I can have fantastic times which do not involve him.

Of course... its still not really where I want to be but every little positive helps you deal with the days ahead. And I am going to need that as my wedding anniversary looms towards the end of the month.

Anyway... am planning to email him tomorrow to ask if we can meet to talk about the house so wish me luck guys as this is going to be the hardest thing I have had to do so far and I don't know how he is going to react or even how I want him to react!

Topsy
x

[Topsy47]

Well.... I just emailed H to say I had done some background work regarding selling the house and that I thought it would be best discussed face to face.. I suggested a couple of convenient evenings.

his reply was that it wasn't a good week for him to meet cos of work although he would ring me to see if he could make tomorrow.

He seemed completely unbothered (is that a word?) by it - the first bit of his reply was actually about getting a concert ticket!

I am not sure if he just isn't concerned or whether he just didn't really know what to say or how to respond.

anyway... looks like we might talk tomorrow, bit nervous as this is the reality of discussing finances and future - agghhhh!

Topsy

[huskypup]

Hi Topsy

I know it is horrible, I felt that discussing the house and selling up meant that you were admitting that everything was over - which I now realise it isn't - my life is not over, I will continue and start again if I have to. I can not change what HB has done and I would run t him with open arms if he walked through the door, but for now its not going to happen. So I will get on with what needs to be done, however painful that may be.

Ive been decorating for most of the weekend, last week I thought it was pointless why should I do this for someone else to enjoy, this week I knew it had to be done.

Glad you enjoyed the proms, sounds brilliant, champagne and strawberries - don't go getting a taste for them.

Nancy

[outoftheblue]

Hi Topsy I do admire you for being strong and sensible and getting on with the practical stuff. I do think it's telling that your H seems unbothered (it must be the right word cos imbothered or disbothered are stupid!!).

Seems to me like he's in denial or could be unable to face it. The OCD/autistic traits would surface as unable to accept such a big change. Of course he may not have known what to say, but to talk about a concert ticket was weird.

Discussing all the finances etc will be very scary for both of you but keep his fear of change/autism/OCD traits in your mind as they could affect how he reacts and you might misinterpret them as hostility etc and it could get ugly without it meaning to.

As living with his Dad is stressful at the mo, I would think coming to your/his home and tidying up is a bit of a sanctuary for him. He may really need it and your friendship but doesn't know how to ask. I know that makes it hard for you and you have to behave like a saint which isn't fair, but like you say you don't think his behaviour at the mo is about you and I tend to agree. There could still be unresolved issues about his Mum and also about his Dad and his disabled brother. Try to stick with it if you can but look after yourself first.

Take care
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Just a quick message (as I'm at work!) - H is coming over tonight to discuss the house.

I'm scared now! On a practical basis, I know how I want it to work and I know what I want to do - I think he will be amicable about it and I think he will broadly agree with how I plan to do things but I just don't want to have this conversation.

I know it has to be done and I'll be alright - I have lined up my sister to talk to immediately he has gone so that I have instant support!

I could just do with any friendly words or advice that anyone has to give. Basically, I want to keep it friendly but I also want to get a good deal (given this isn't my fault) but I don't want to argue too much!

Help!
topsy

[huskypup]

Hi Topsey

Not heard from you for a couple of days, how did it go with HB the other night, any decisions reached, hope you are ok?

Nancy - huskypup

[Topsy47]

Hi Nancy

Well... it went OK. Unfortunately he didn't fall at my feet, say what a fool he'd been and beg to come back!!!

However, we did manage to talk a few things through and keep it all very amicable. We have decided to put the house on the market and I have got the estate agent coming round next week to take photos etc.

Regarding finances, I had an inheritance of which quite a lot has been spent on the house - he has agreed that I can take the full amount of the inheritance out of the equity of the house. So what we have decided is that I will use this amount as a deposit for a new place for me and then once the house has sold and I've bought new place, we will then see what is left and finalise it from there. Obviously this relies on it all staying amicable in the meantime but I think that will be able to do this and he agrees its the most simple approach.

I was quite surprised as he pretty much said I could have my pick of the furniture and stuff in the house so if he sticks with that, it means that I should quite easily be able to furnish a new place and that will keep my costs down. He kind of admitted that he hasn't even thought of what he is going to do next so I guess he won't have much need for furniture for the time being.

I don't really think he still knows what he is doing. I found out that after seeing his counsellor twice, he had a week off work and then hasn't been back to her since. He said he might go back to her as its coming up to a year since his mum died - he almost cried as he said this so its clear his mum's death is still something that he really hasn't even started to come to terms with. I said it would be a good idea and also suggested he mention the OCD to his counsellor - his response was 'its not that bad' so he really doesn't realise how OC he is. Last time he'd been round, I opened our mini fridge to find my cans of drink all in a neat row facing - and he thinks its not that bad! Sadly, I can't force him to deal with these things - all I can do is encourage him.

I think he does miss me as he was very chatty and happy to talk. He emailed and phoned the next day and also asked if there was anything he could do to help when I told him the estate agent was coming round next week.

Although I am still in a position where I am having to do things that I dont want to do, I feel that I can cope with it and now that we have made some decisions, it allows me to move forward. The only area where I am really struggling is that I can be a compulsive over-eater and I am finding that is rearing its ugly head. I'm prob also consuming a bit too much alcohol at the mo although thats prob only temporary.

Phew... long post! Glad to have all that off my chest!

Topsy
x

[Lauz]

I don't really think he still knows what he is doing. I found out that after seeing his counsellor twice, he had a week off work and then hasn't been back to her since. He said he might go back to her as its coming up to a year since his mum died - he almost cried as he said this so its clear his mum's death is still something that he really hasn't even started to come to terms with. I said it would be a good idea and also suggested he mention the OCD to his counsellor - his response was 'its not that bad' so he really doesn't realise how OC he is. Last time he'd been round, I opened our mini fridge to find my cans of drink all in a neat row facing - and he thinks its not that bad! Sadly, I can't force him to deal with these things - all I can do is encourage him.


Our counselor mentioned to my h that she feels he is still grieving the loss of his grandmother who died some 5 years ago. My h was very close to her and gets upset even now when we talk about her. He really looked up to her. He even said to me he doesn't think he has been happy since she died. It's amazing how these things effect people. I dont think he has grieved properly for her and with other things going on in his life, it has all become too much for him. He continues to go to counseling, so hopefully that will sort some stuff out.

[Topsy47]

Thanks Lauz!

I really do believe the death of his mother has sparked our whole breakup. The OCD and other issues are things we could have dealt with but I think the combination of everything has resulted in him having a bit of a breakdown, not that he would admit it.

When I saw him last, I did try to talk to him about the OCD but he won't really admit it. He even made a joke about it when we spoke today - he is basically denying it is that bad and wants me to agree with him but I wont.

H's mum was the real matriarch in his family - a bit of a Pauline Fowler/Peggy Mitchell character. Everything revolved around her and family was the most important thing. losing her was the first major trauma he has had to deal with in his life and, in all honesty, it was probably the worst one he was ever going to have to deal with. So it has hit him very hard.

i think his main problem though is his inability to admit that he isn't coping. He stopped seeing his counsellor and i suspect part of that is that he finds it too hard so just avoids it instead.

On a practical basis he is still being very good. We did have one wobble when he worked out how hard it is going to be for him to buy a flat on his own. He looked like he was going to try and renege on the basic plan that we have worked out so far - I have put more money into our house so wanted more out, he originally agreed but then more and more started saying that if went to court, they would probably give a 50/50 split. I finally said that that was probably the case but that the court would look at ALL assets which would include the pension he has being paying into for years! I have no desire to get my hands on his pension but I knew he wouldn't have thought that that would be included as an asset - as I work in pensions, he realised I knew what I was talking about! He quickly backed down and we now have a basic agreement in place as to how we are going to do things.

I don't want to score points but getting him to back down has made me feel a bit more like I am getting back into control of my own life. I still don't want to be in this position but I am going to make the best of it that I can cos its my life and you don't get a 2nd go!

I am going to look at potential new properties tomorrow so fingers crossed I find something I like

Topsy

[huskypup]

I know you probably have done it Topsy, but get the deal you have come to in writing, I have asked Hb to put it in writing and as yet he hasn't or won't, so I am going to see a solicitor on Wed and ask him to write a letter to him.

Hope the house hunting goes ok.

[Topsy47]

Hi! Thanks for that advice. We have confirmed our basic plan via email so, although not signed as such, there is a written record.

Also, I am going to appoint a solicitor for the sale of the house and buying of a new place so will also get him to do our separation agreement which should then secure everything.

Went to some estate agents today to look at details for a new place and am viewing 3 in the morning!! In some ways I'm actually quite excited. My mum is coming with me for a 2nd opinion (I think she just likes nosing round other people's houses, LOL). My parents have also offered a bit of financial assistance if necessary - as much as possible I want to do all this under my own steam but its great to know that I have some back-up if I need it.

With some practical fun things to do, found that I didnt think of H so much today.

Topsy

[AnnieP]

Good news Topsy. I am glad you are feeling positive.
I am interested in your seperation agreement, as I fear this is what I am going to be having to do fairly soon if things do not change. How does it work? You get it drawn up and H has to get a solicitor to act for him to agree/dispute? Or do seperating couples do it together?
Don't want to hi jack your thread, but as we do not have children, I am interested in how the mortgage on our place would be split, (I intend to remain here as long as I can: Can I do that without having children???). as he earns much more than me. Would he still have to contribute more? Maintain my lifestyle? ie gym, hair, manicures, cleaner etc?
I have been reluctant to seek legal help yet, as it is the next stage and I am desperate to not get there, and of course, the expense, but am beginning to turn my thoughts this way, just in case.

I hope you find a lovely house today!
Good luck!
xxx

[Topsy47]

Hi Annie

Feel free to hijack my thread anytime!!

Unfortunately I am not sure if I am going to be much help to you here. Me and H have decided to try and negotiate things between us so I haven't had anything more than very basic legal advice so far.

The separation agreement is for people who are no longer going to live together but not divorcing yet. You basically sort out your arrangements and then draw up a document detailing what you have decided and its legally binding - apparently you can do it on the internet (!) but I think I'd rather go through my solicitor. I expect we will leave the divorce til we have been separated 2yrs hence its a good way of drawing a line under things for the time being.

The basic legal advice I got was that if you went to court and you don't have children, they will generally split the assets 50/50 - this can vary on how long you have been married.

I understand you don't want to spend much at this stage, but some solicitors offer a fixed fee consultation where you could just go along for some intial advice. The best advice I've had is to try and negotiate things yourselves as once you draw the solicitors in, you spend half your assets on their fees!!!!

Saw 3 properties today - really liked one although depends now on how quickly we find a buyer before I can start putting serious offers in. Feel slightly less positive today, I guess it was a bit of a reality check seeing how much I will be downsizing and noticing the standard of decor is not great! Never mind!

Topsy
x

[AnnieP]

Thanks for that info Topsy. I guessed it would be 50/50 in a divorce, but there's no way I'm divorcing him! He'll have to wait the two years.... at least....
Topsy, I am sure you will manage to decorate! Look on it as a challenge! I love weilding a paintbrush and roller! I suppose if its more serious than just decorating, tehn maybe you might have to think a bit harder... Is your house on the market yet?

[Topsy47]

Good luck Annie!

Oh yeah, I can wield a paintbrush with the rest of them! Its just that H did a lot of the stuff in our house and, given his OC tendencies, its all a bit perfectionist! We completely refurbished this house so it is just hard going from somewhere thats all done just as you want it to somewhere where you have to start again with a much smaller budget! BUT... i know I will be fine - I lived in a right old wreck of a flat before we bought this house so I'm sure it won't take me long to adapt back, LOL!

Its also me being a bit snobby - our house is in a cheaper location and if I stayed round here, I'd prob get a bit more for my money. But I am making a choice to move to somewhere I prefer which isn't far away but is a bit pricier - however it means that I am closer to friends and family which has to be a bonus.

The main thing really is that I can afford to get a place - not everyone who sells up is left with enough so I am quite lucky in that respect. And once I have my own stuff in there it will soon seem like home...

Topsy

[outoftheblue]

Well done Topsy, you're being very brave doing all this. I still think you should be 'there' for him, he clearly does sound as if he needs help, but like most men just can't see how bad they are.

Just a thought and this worked for a friend of mine, but when you do find a place you like, ask H if he'll come round and look at it with you for a second impartial opinion etc. my friend did this with no intentions, all she really did want was H's opinion, but he went round the place saying - well we could knock through here and if we put the bed here etc. He was living away alone for 6 months and she thought he had no intention of returning, but it seemed to be the jolt he needed to sort himself out. 18 months on they're still together and doing fine.

You may not now want your H back, but if you do and think he might return if he got his head sorted this 'might' be what he need it will make it real for him and he might also not like the idea of you living somewhere smaller with dodgy decor! Failing that he might just offer to do the decorating which would at least be cheap and perfectly done!!

[AnnieP]

Good one OOTB! I like that! Makes note to self... remember this if and when it might be needed.

[Topsy47]

Hi OOTB

I think you and I have very similar thoughts sometimes!!! I had already asked if he will help me move and he has said yes. Today I told him I had looked at a couple of places and he seemed interested. If and when I put an offer in on something then I may well ask him to come and view.

Bit scary today as I got up and found a big 'For Sale' sign outside my house - yikes! Emailed H to tell him as I thought it might upset him if he suddenly turned up. Strange new approach from H - he is suddenly starting to thank me for all the legwork I am putting in for selling the house. Its the first time for a while that he has noticed something that I have done. Also, he phoned me rather than emailed when I said about the board going up - it was nice to have a chat.

This evening got even scarier cos someone wants to view the house already - big shock as I haven't even seen the details yet but the estate agents are obviously doing their job! As it happens, i am a bit tied up this week so I have said to them the viewing will have to be the weekend at the earliest. Feeling a bit unsettled but I think that is as much to do with the general stress/upheaval of moving.

Got nice text messages from H's sister today. She told me that a fresh start would be good for me and that I was strong and would get through it. she basically said that she would always be around for me which was really nice. She is divorced so I guess she has some knowledge of what I am going through. Back to the usual 'how much should I read into this' but I thought it odd that she was encouraging about a fresh start - much as she loves her brother, maybe she has noticed how things are with him at the mo and thinks I might be better off without him. Or else.. she knows he isn;t going to change his mind so is just trying to help persuade me to give up! I guess I really need to get to talk to her at some point.

OOTB - I do still want him back but I am struggling to see how I can get him back. Because its all down to mental issues, its very hard to know what best to do other than keep it all as friendly as possible. In some ways i am probably rushing into moving but I think it is the only way that I can cope with it all - its a hard balance of doing what is right for you whilst still wanting whats best for them

Topsy
x

[Topsy47]

Quick update... got 2 viewings on house. Phoned H to tell him and he sounded VERY sad. I did say he can always change his mind but he just said 'no' and then went into practical mode saying that its just the reality of it all etc.

I almost want to email him now to say... are you OK and point out that if he just gave things a go we wouldn't have to do this.

Its hard for me too - in some ways I would love to leave things as they are and wait to see if he changes his mind. At the same time, I'm 36 and still want to do things (including have a family) so I feel that I cannot put everything on hold. Perhaps if he had shown any hint that he wanted to come back then I would be more inclined to give it time but he really does seem to have closed off to me on an emotional level and I don't know how to get through that. With the anniversary of his mother's death approaching, I am not sure that things are going to improve any time soon. Plus its our wedding anniversary next week - agghhh!

Topsy

[AnnieP]

Topsy, I feel for you. I am 38 with no children (our choice). I worry that my H is NEVER going to make up his mind as to whether we are going to try to save our marriage and I could still be here in 2 years time whilst he is still dealing with his depression. I will be 40 and have wasted 2 years of my life.....

Why don't you send that email? Base it along the lines of, "I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I couldn't help but notice how sad you sounded when I told you about the viewings this morning. If you have any doubts at all about our seperate futures and about us selling the house, you had better express them now, before its too late. I don't want either of us to regret this in the future."
You have nothing to lose.....

[huskypup]

I know what you mean Topsey about not knowing what to do for the best, while I was at work last night, a guy I know vaguely came in with his wife and asked if I was still putting my house up for sale in Nov, as they have theirs up for sale and want to move back into the villiage, I was quite shocked, he's asked if they can come and look at my house next week. I said yes, as a private sale could save me thousands in estate agent fee's, I also still have the people across the road from me who are still interested.

I agree with Anne, a nice email couldn't do any harm and it would let you know where you stand properly if he says yes or no.

But like you I am also 36 and also want a family, time is ticking and I don't want to waste another year hoping that he will come back. HB never wanted anymore children, I was not happy about it but as I loved him and had stepson & daughter I went with the flow so maybe this is my chance to try and get what I want, as its yours.

Keep smiling:)

[Topsy47]

Hi, haven't posted for a bit for various reasons which i'll explain but definitely in need of some support today as its my wedding anniversary and its hit me a bit more than I expected.

Well, its all been happening in the last week although not in the way that I would want i.e. no sudden return of H. We had photos taken of the house on Monday before last to put it on the market and by Tuesday this week we had a full asking price offer. I put an offer in on a maisonette that I like and thats been accepted so it looks like everything is in motion.

However, this week I have also been off sick with a chest infection and now its that time of the month so i am feeling rather scared, ill and pitiful! On top of that, i had a tarot/spiritual reading and the person who came through was my mother-in-law saying she knew what was going on etc. I find these things interesting more than anything else but a few things were said that were so spot on it was freaky and it just made me feel a bit weird.

As for H, he is being extremely friendly and helpful. Last Saturday we were on the phone and we were both planning to go to the same place to shop so he offered me a lift. Following some of the advice on here, I have asked him to come and view the place I am buying so we are going this Sat. I have also asked him to help me with the move and he has agreed.

Those of you who have followed my thread know of his OC and possibly autistic tendencies - the sale of the house has really hit him as expected. He is dealing with it by saying that selling is more for me so that I can move on - almost making a martyr of himself and probably something else that will eventually be seen as my fault. At the same time, it shows me that he is nowhere nearer to dealing with his issues so I am doing the right thing - much as I love him and would want to wait for him, I know that I would go crazy if I stayed here in the same scenario for the next however many months/years with no guarantees or possibly even hope of a happy outcome.

Of course, knowing you are doing the right thing doesn't actually make it any easier! On the bright side though, the quick offer on the house has enabled me to offer on the place I really liked - we got full asking price so the financial situation is slightly better than we'd expected plus I got a bit off the place I am buying. So the practical side of things is smooth at the mo - the emotional needs some more work!!

Topsy
x

[AnnieP]

Aw Topsy. Good to hear frm you. Nice to have an update on your life. It sounds good and bad, like most of us I guess.
Good news about the house, yet I know how you feel: Its just one more step down the road that you really don't want to be travelling on...
No looking back girl, you ARE doing the right thing.
Be strong
Much love to you:o

[huskypup]

Hi Topsey

Im sorry that you are feeling low today, we are here for you, if you need to chat about your reading etc Im here, I also had a reading done and the things that were said were unbelievable. I also sit in circle so I'll try and answer any questions you have.

Like you I am plodding on, my house is going on the market at the end of Oct, I could put it on now, but if it sold as quick as yours the paperwork would be a nightmareto deal with, with Hb being in the Falklands it is taking 2 weeks for mail to reach him, if he had something to sign, and I can't take the risk of things going missing.

I have seen a few houses that I like, but Im stuck in limbo abit until end of Oct.

I don't know what to advise about your HB, you are doing right, by doing whats right for you at the moment, it is very hard you don't want to upset the applecart unnessacarily.

Don't know what to say, you keep smiling and it will be all ok in the end - somehow!!

[Topsy47]

Thanks AnnieP and Huskypup, I'm feeling a bit more positive today and happier with what is going on. Of course I'm a bit stressy about the house going through smoothly but that would be the case whatever the circumstances of my move.

Huskypup - interested in what you said about the reading. sorry to sound silly but what do you mean about sitting in circle? The reading I had was spiritual and tarot and the woman was actually very good, she hit the nail on the head on so many things. the weirdest part was she asked about my mother-in-laws ashes which threw me at first - then she said that they either hadnt been interred or there had been a delay. Well, it took about 6mths for the family to sort it all out and when they did do it, it was just H, his 2 sisters and his dad (i.e. no partners etc). At the time H said it was like going through the funeral all over again - this was in April and I've just realised that this may well have been what sparked off everything that has happened now. For some stupid reason, I hadnt previously connected it but it makes a lot of sense and the fact that it came up in the reading when i hadn;t even been thinking about it was really quite odd.

I am probably seeing my sister-in-law tomorrow night, bit nervous but hopefully wont be too awkward. Be interesting to see if she has any real insight on what is going on but H isn't one to talk much so he probably wont have shared that much with her.

Hope everyone has a good weekend
topsy

[outoftheblue]

Topsy, sorry I've not been there for you, but you sound like you are working hard at doing the right thing. This will be hard for you and probably very hard for your H too. Maybe all hope is not lost, there is nothing to stop him getting himself together and eventually returning to you in the new place. This might be the jolt he needs.

I'm not sure I believe in the tarot thing but what the lady says is certainly spooky and I would agree the interring of the ashes in April could have triggered his feelings again. I don't know your H but having experience with autism he sounds as if maybe his mum was his rock and losing her just cast him adrift. Of course I'm sure as a grown man he would never admit this, but it is such a significant life event it must have affected him deeply.

I think seeing his sister will be good, and if you can open up to her about your feelings and fears for your H she may be able to help you and him.
Hope it goes well and if you can keep the communication going with him as much as you can.
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hi C

Yes you are spot on with H's relationship with his mother. She was most certainly the matriarch of the family and he was extremely close to her without being a mummy's boy. Her death was horrendous for him but he has never really been able to talk about his feelings over it all - I think he needed to see a professional straight away but he wouldn't have it and you just can't force people into these things. He also has an ability to get through everyday life without people realising there is anything wrong (other than those who know him well of course) so he still functions normally at work and out with mates etc. So there is a chance he will just continue to exist rather than live his life.

He is coming to see the maisonette I am buying tomorrow morning. He is still being very kind and helpful on a practical basis but, as usual, anything more than that he shuts down or doesn't reply. I want to get tickets for an event at Wembley at the end of October - it was something we both wanted to do so I texted him and asked if he'd like to go with me. I even said I would understand if he didn't want to but I just thought it might be fun - he hasn't responded. Maybe thats a good thing as it could be that he is thinking about it. I think he almost avoids engaging in much fun talk with me because then he might have to start considering what he is giving up.

I am hoping seeing his sister will be good. However, I value her friendship and the fact that she still wants to see me so I am going to bite my tongue to an extent so that she doesn't feel that I have only come over to talk about her brother. I am hoping that he will come up naturally in conversation and we will be able to share some thoughts on the subject but if that doesn't happen I will wait til another time. She is a lovely woman who has been through a divorce herself so I think she will be very supportive.

Topsy
x

[Topsy47]

Hi!

Just a quick update - H came to view my new place with me yesterday and was very nice and helpful about it all.

I saw his sister yesterday evening - was there til about 1am so you can guess there were no awkward silences and we had a good old chat. She said that H had said to them (her, his dad and his other sister) that he didn't want to keep talking about him and me so basically they just don't talk about it!!! No wonder he has problems expressing his feelings.

I also tried to hint to her my concerns about his OCD but when I talked about him tidying up she just laughed and said he'd always been like that. I didn't push the subject as I didn't want to make too much of it.

She was, however, very supportive of me and is going to come out for my birthday next month. She clearly doesn't think that there was anything dreadful that I did to cause the breakdown. She thinks that the death of their mum just made him re-evaluate his life and thats when he realised that he wasn't 100% happy with me.

I felt fine afterwards and glad that we had got on so well. It would still be nice to get a few more answers from H but I don't think he really knows whats going on himself let alone try to explain it to me!

Topsy
x

[Topsy47]

hi! Need a few friendly words today!

Things are going OK for me but I am just starting to feel very tired and stressed with all the house move stuff. I was off sick from work all last week with a chest infection and am generally feeling run down - as well as what is going on with my personal life, my job is very busy and demanding at the moment which means I feel pressured from all angles.

H is coming over tonight for us to complete solicitors forms - even that was an effort to find a time that he could come and do it - its not like you can really leave things like that waiting for long. He is also being quite blase about sorting out our belongings in the house - I want to make a start on it so that its not one big rush when the move goes ahead. He has basically said what things he wants to take and his attitude is almost like 'this is what I want so you can deal with everything else'. I dont think he means to come across like that - in his state of mind, i think he is just finding it very hard to deal with the reality of selling our home but that doesn't make it any easier for me. Of course the fact that he isn't physically living there makes it easier for him to leave it all up to me as well.

I'm feeling a bit on my own with all this! I know I can do it but I think I need a week away from everything to recharge and sadly that just isn't going to happen right now!!!

Topsy
x

[huskypup]

Hi Topsy

Come to Germany and Poland with me in three weeks, its work but its a week away in hotels and my employer is paying. Its Oktoberfest so Im sure we are drink a few beers and wash away some demons.

I dread being where you are, when my house does sell, as he says he wants nothing from the house but I know he does really. Selling the house makes it all very final doesn't it. Can't offer any advice except if you want to chat I can give you email address, I spend alot of time on MSN and the minute:).

Maybe we should doubledate the internet guys, you aren't far from me, and my guy is local from me as well. One to ponder on.

Take care of yourself, and try to keep smiling.

huskypup
xx

[Topsy47]

Hiya! You know, I might just take you up on the offer of a week away!!!! If only I didn't have to save my annual leave for moving house!

Oh dear, if anything my day got more stressful. The surveyors were meant to be ringing me when they were nearby so that I could go and let them in (I work locally so its quite easy) but I hadn't heard anything so rang the estate agents. To cut a long story short, the survey had been put on hold by my buyers - turns out they had had some doubts about the house not having off-street parking. They are now saying that its fine and they will go ahead with the survey which now means me waiting for another date - I don't mind that so much but its just put me on edge as to whether these people will definitely go through with the purchase. I don't mind who buys my place, I just don't want to lose the one I am buying!!!!

Huskypup - in a way, I don't feel that selling the house does make it final. I DID think that at first but then it struck me that if H moved back in to our current house, then we would just be moving back together with all the existing problems and issues to deal with and it could be very difficult. If I have a new place and he has time to clear his head, then eventually (if he ever changes his mind) we could start dating again and build things slowly and bring the fun back into the relationship. It wouldn't prevent us from buying a place in the future. I actually think that doing it that way would give us a better chance of sorting things out.

Would love to chat anytime - unfortunately hotmail and msn are barred at work but if you give me email address, I can pass my work one on to you for daytime - would be nice to chat.

Where abouts do you live?
I have vague plans to meet internet guy on Sat - when I say vague, we kind of agreed it but we haven't actually said time and place so it might come to nothing - I'm not pushing it! If it happens it happens - I'll make sure its a public place and get one of my friends to ring me!

Will keep you updated!
Topsy
x

[outoftheblue]

Topsy well done for getting yourself through this. I can understand how hard it has been but well done you. I'm glad you don't see it as 'the end' I think the door is still open for him once he gets himself together, it'll just be a different door!!. It doesn't sound like you'll be shutting it his face if he does come knocking.

Keep doing all that you are and take care.
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hi OOTB

No, I wouldn't shut the door on him but sadly he is still giving me no indication that he will ever be knocking.

Things are a bit difficult at the mo as the house buyers have dropped out and we are trying to get someone else in quickly so that I don't lose the place I am buying. We do have another offer on the table which is lower but H has said he is happy to accept that if it means less stress/hassle for me. On the one hand, he wants to do things that will make life easier for me but on the other hand, he isn't trying to delay the sale. I think his kind actions probably come more out of guilt of leaving me and him still caring just enough to want to make sure that I am OK.

We talked a little on Wed night when he came over to fill in solicitors forms and he admitted he was surprised at how well I've coped since he left and also said he was proud of me which was odd. However, he says very little or nothing about the way he feels. I told him that more than anything I was just disappointed in him for not wanting to fight for it. I told him I still thought that things could be repaired but there was no positive response. If anything, all he ever says is 'sorry'.

Its very frustrating as sometimes I just want to hug him or else I want to ask things like 'dont you miss me just a bit'. He said on Wed that he doesn't hate me or anything and that the feelings don't all go away - but even the way he puts it is almost in a negative way e.g. he doesn't say 'i still like you' just that he doesnt hate me!

In a way, I know I am better off without him at the moment in that he is in a place where he needs to sort himself out before he could even consider sorting us out. But that doesn't stop me wishing I could go back to the H of a year or so ago and get that person back. He said that he thinks we have both changed, but I know that is not the case as such because sooooo much of this just stems from him losing his mum. Even his sister said as much - although her view was that their mum's death made him re-evaluate his life rather than saying that he's depressed.

The last couple of days have been a bit depressing as the house stuff is stressful in itself, losing our buyers is worrying and now I have to do viewings all over again. Although it doesn't bother me much, the guy I was texting seems to have totally backed off for no reason - I'm not actually upset but its just something else negative along with the other stuff.

I'm trying and trying so hard to keep positive and look at the good things in my life but I do feel as though I am banging my head against a brick wall sometimes. I am feeling like I want to go into hibernation for a few weeks!

Topsy
x

[huskypup]

Hi Tops

Sorry to hear about your buyers, not alot I can say apart from "theres room in my suitcase still" we can have a girly trip away, Im going with two other girls who are in the same situation we are in, so it should be fun, we are completely men free that week.

Im sending you a hug, one consellation (I think) at least yours in talking to you, my seems to have disapeered off the planet, not even answering emails now.

Try and keep smiling - I know its hard, sending you happy thoughts.

Huskypup
xx

[Topsy47]

Hi Huskypup

I think your happy thoughts must have helped as I have had a much better weekend!

I have seen and spoken to H quite a bit - nothing new to report but still friendly and I am starting to feel that I may be able to stay friends with him even though I can't have the relationship I want with him.

On the practical side, we've got 2 offers on the house now so waiting to hear from the estate agents tomorrow as to who is in the better position etc. Its relaxed me a bit as hopefully this means my purchase is still safe.

My internet friend has vanished altogether but it just doesn't bother me! I went out with a mate on Fri night and we ended up at a club which is totally not like me but I had a v good night.

all in all feeling more positive, so thanks for your good wishes. The Poland/Germany think certainly sounds tempting but think I may be needing my annual leave for a house move!!

Topsy
x

[huskypup]

Hi Topsey

Thats good news about your house, two offers that is brilliant. Clubbing as well, it has been a good weekend.

Glad you are feeling a bit better, you will have days were you think I can do this and the next you don't think you can, but we will come out of this stronger people.

Im now chatting to three on the internet, all live local to me, haven't given phone numbers to any of them - not ready for that.

Its good that you and HB are ammicable with each other, it certainly makes it easier, still no word from mine, told him in the last email I sent, unless I get it in writing signed by his CO the house WILL NOT be put on the market, I feel that mine is going to get very messey.:(

Glad you are feeling better how is little Topsey doing? is she eating more, mine were very unsettled when HB moved out, they are all ok now.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Huskypup
x

[outoftheblue]

Glad the house stuff is going ok. It is stressful but you'll get there.

I hope you can stay friends and that may develop further once the house move is out of the way, who knows....

I agree he needs to sort himself out and he probably did re-evaluate his life after the death of his mum, but he does also sound depressed. Once he deals with all those issues he may once again become the man of a year ago. Even the way he is saying stuff is the language of a depressed man. Seeing everything from the glass is half empty side etc. Of course he doesn't hate you but he is also not able to feel love at the mo. Like I posted on AnnieP's site as her H sounds depressed (exactly like mine!)a classic sign is feeling numb.Not being able to feel any emtotion be it happy/sad/love/hate/sorrow/pain etc. It's all dead and they don't understand why, but can't even get angry cos they don't really feel that either.
I told my H I thought he had closed the door on his emotions when his Dad died so he didn't deal with or feel the pain. But it meant he closed the door on every other emotion he should feel too. He has said 'I feel dead inside/I just feel numb/I don't understand how I can be doing this to you and not feel the pain I am causing.' He has finally agreed this is a possibility.
I think the trouble is the word depression. Men see it as a weeping and wailing weakness usually in a woman. Men on the other hand experience depression especially after the death of a parent in a different way often in denial the ' I must be a man - stiff upper lip style' which just means they bury their feelings so deeply they then can't access them hence our current sitautions!! And that is why they don't recognise it as depression.

Everything you are doing is right and that stops any doors closing for the future.

Keep being positive
Cxx

[Topsy47]

Hiya!

Well, things are going as OK as they can in the circumstances.

Yes, little Topsy is doing fine now - actually she is not so little!!! She is a bit of a flabby cat but at 14yrs old, there isn't that much exercise you can get her to do! She's adapted really well now to H not being around although I do worry about how she'll react when I move but as long as i have a few days at home and spend time with her, I'm sure she'll be OK. Glad your pets are doing well Huskypup!

OOTB, yes I agree that H's main issue is depression. All the OCD and possible autism tendencies may have already existed but did not have such an impact on his life until he became depressed. He didn't come football with me on Saturday because he says he has lost the heart for it a bit at the moment - I think its because its something that we always used to do together. he seems to try and avoid anything that might cause an emotional reaction.

His behaviour goes up and down. He was pretty stressed with the house stuff last week but now he seems to have calmed down again and that is reflected in the way he acts. He IS coming football this weekend and he phoned me yesterday to make sure I knew the time of the game had been changed - no real reason for him to have to do that. Also, when I move to my new place, there is a gym I might join so he picked me up a flyer which offered a trial pass there. He still does kind things but he just will not open up to me or talk to me at all about anything.

My position is still the same - I would love to sort things out with him but I know I am right to be making my own life in the meantime because if I was sitting round waiting for him, I would probably go insane! I also feel he is more likely to want to come back to me when I've moved and he realises just how much he has lost. However, I still think it will be a long time before he gets to that point and, until he admits he has a problem, there is little I can do to really help him. Yes, OOTB I agree with what you say about how some men seem to think about depression - H definitely sees it as a weakness. By avoiding all his emotions, he effectively carries on life as 'normal' on the outside and can tell himself that he is fine.

Topsy
x

[schoolrunmum]

Dear Topsy et al...hope you don't mind a newbie barging in on your thread, but I am in the same situation as you guys(25 years together and now he has had enough) and it strikes me the common thread with all these men is their mother or father dying. My husband has not been "right" since his mother died unexpectedly 4 years ago.....and your right, depression to them means weeping n wailing doesn't it??? "If I'm not crying I'm not depressed"sort of thing.....jeez, what a mess.....any of you girls live mid sussex area????I need a good girly night out and a moan....

[Topsy47]

Hi Schoolrunmum

Nice to have you aboard (despite circumstances of course!).

Yes its amazing the similarities you find in behaviour despite the differences in the situation.

My H has not been right since his mum died, its coming up to a year now. She was the real matriarch of the family and she died of cancer within 8wks of them realising something was wrong. He's never dealt with it and in many ways he isn't even dealing with our breakup. Its very sad but you can't force people to face their emotions and problems - I suspect that by the time my H realises what he's given up, it might be too late for us to do much about it.

I live in Essex and don't drive (learning at mo) - but if you have an easy route into London I'm sure we could arrange a girlie night.

Topsy