I've been an idiot - any advice welcome!

[robs]

This is my first time on a forum, so I hope it's not all waffly or daft.

My wife & I have been married 6 years next Friday (10th), with 2 kids (6 & 11). The eldest has a different biological dad - my wife & I met when he was very young.

For most of that time, we've been OK - some disagreements, but we managed. A few times over the past couple of years, she's had to nudge me because my behaviour's not been quite right. I'm not a physical person, work hard, earn a crust - the kind of thing's she's picked me up on are how I am with her & the kids.

I come from a middleclass background where my Dad always worked, never nurtured, was a bit bullying. I've realised I've become the same. I've very few real friends, don't socialise, find parties & things a bit overwhelming. I'm also obsessive with tidying the house & things like that; I guess I holed myself up my own cocoon as a kid/teen.

Last night, she finally told me that she didn't care anyone, thought I was boring, no fun, a poor dad (esp. with the eldest), and that she'd felt that way for months. We talked, and she said she thought I should think about leaving, as she'd be better with the kids alone and I wouldn't clip her wings.

The reason I've been an idiot is because she's kind of right - I put me, work, tidying ahead of her, fun, the kids sometimes.

So now I'm scared, crampy, 1 hours sleep, not hungry; I don't know if I should stay or go. I'm sure I want to make it right, and I can't be a coward any more. I should have done something before, but I guess I got lazy - now it feels that it might be too late.

Please help if you can :(

[jools]

Hi Robs
Not a lot we can do really - it's up to you. Sounds like you know what the problem is so do something about it and hope it's not too late. Good luck.
Jools
________
Medical Marijuana Patients (http://mmjp.org)

[nik1h]

Jools might be right. If you really really feel your behaviour is the reason then work very very hard to repair the damage and let her see the results.

On the other hand there is an alternative. Is blaming your behaviour a cover for something else?

[Stevet]

Hi Rob,

Just my advice (might not be agreed with, might not be right) but...

Do you love your wife?

If the answer is YES, then do something about it and NOW. There are people in these forums who will be able to help you, but only if you are prepared to help yourself. I think if you can show your wife that you are willing to change then you can save your marriage.

Good luck mate.

Steve

[robs]

Thanks for your thoughts, makes a lot of sense

It's exactly what I realised last night - I've got some work to do, and it might not be easy, but I love her so that's that.

I'm sad that I didn't see this before (and even when she told me, I didn't do anything), but I'm not gonna let that drag me down now.

I've got to be strong and determined (which I am); I guess what happens next is down to me, even if she still feels it's not enough any more.

Last night was really hard - I made a real, true effort with the kids, more fun than I've had in a long time. When they'd gone to bed, I realised it felt like I was a lodger or something (and not a very welcome one at that!). We kind of sat together, the telly on our usual programmes, but it felt so uncomfortable.

We talked a little bit, her basically saying that the kids playtime wasn't genuine, that she thought I should still go.

I guess this is just part of the process - I didn't feel strong enough yet to say that I was really trying, it wasn't just some feeble attempt. She's angry, has every right to be.

Should I go, even just for a while? I'm not sure how I feel about that yet. One part of me thinks it'd give us space, but it feels like letting go of the family which is a bit scary...

[Stevet]

Rob,

It isn't going to be easy and it won't change over night, but if you are truly commited then I am sure you can start to move in the right direction.

Stay strong.

Steve

[robs]

Thanks Steve - you too

Deep breath & see how it goes... :)

[markus]

Rob ... When a women suddenly out the blue changes the way she is with you and wants you out etc it can only mean one thing

She's having an affair
Ive seen it so many times before on here and other forums

Brace yourself mate ... i never get it wrong

Dont go looking to change yourself yet !! keep an eye on her
is she getting home late from work .. is she out a lot etc

I smell a rat :eek:

[robs]

Hi Markus

It did cross my mind - a while ago, she confessed she'd been tempted when she went out, but didn't.

All I can do is hope she'd at least be honest with me; still doesn't change the fact I've got to get myself sorted with my life balance and the kids.

If she is, I'll have to deal with it somehow...

[Raymond]

You hit it on the head Rob balance. It's good that you work and are good at being tidy but not at the expense of being a good husband. No. 1 should be loving your wife. I want to suggest a book for you to read called the Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. You may love your wife but she may not perceive it. Maybe you should find out her primary love language and work at it. It could be touch (hugs etc) maybe Quality Time or Receiving Gifts (doesn't have to be expensive, just something to show you are thinking of her) maybe Acts of Service (read the book) or Words of Affirmation (compliments etc.)

It might just work Rob. It is worth a try. If she actually feels loved in the way she wants to be it will be worth it. I had to work on hugs that were alien to me, but are now a natural part of my expression. We can change.

Usually we treat our wives the way that we want to be treated, but generally they will be different from us and their primary love language has to be discovered to make it work. It's like a child who is loved by his Dad but doesn't perceive it because Dad never expresses it in a way that is real to them.

You can do it Rob. You can change. Hopefully it's not too late. when I started I spent a lot of time doing all the jobs DIY etc. and thought she must feel loved because I think Acts of service is one of my main languages. All the time she was crying out for affectionate hugs. I still do the jobs but mixed with the hugs, kisses, holding hands etc. Everything has opened out from it.

Raymond

[nik1h]

Rob ... When a women suddenly out the blue changes the way she is with you and wants you out etc it can only mean one thing

She's having an affair
Ive seen it so many times before on here and other forums

Brace yourself mate ... i never get it wrong

Dont go looking to change yourself yet !! keep an eye on her
is she getting home late from work .. is she out a lot etc

I smell a rat :eek:

Markus

I am intrigued by you. You seem to have a following on here that is admired. You are blunt, almost always right by your own admission. Im not having a go by any means just wondering where you get your wisdom?

[markus]

I recently seperated from a serial cheat and since then read a lot about infideity so i can see the pattern
Cheating women want you to feel youv'e failed and point out your faults so they can justify their actions
She's gave you her excuse in advance .. and now she'll sit back and watch you make changes to your life when really its her that needs to change
And even if you do need to make changes that wouldn't be the reason for someone cheating -- thats about them
And who doesn't need to make changes ?
the fact that your willing to make changes proves she's upto something
it wasn't hard to get you to realise you need to change so why didn't she suggest that instead of wanting you out ?

It did cross my mind - a while ago, she confessed she'd been tempted when she went out, but didn't.

All I can do is hope she'd at least be honest with me; still doesn't change the fact I've got to get myself sorted with my life balance and the kids.


Rob .. Cheats dont do honesty - ive heard so many times people say 'she told me'
They only say what suits them .. which is usually nothing or ' I dont want to talk about it '
Its their duty as a deceitful person to use any opportunity to throw you off trail
Theres you thinking the most she's ever done in your relationship is be tempted to cheat when really she could be having an affair
Women say and do anything to keep the double life going

open your eyes Rob .. she's one step ahead of you at the moment
Focus on her .. not yourself

Research the signs of people having affairs and stop this bitch in her tracks !

[jools]

Women say and do anything to keep the double life goingAgree with most of what you've said here, Markus - but I couldn't let that comment slide by without adding - "men too".
Jools
________
Dodge m37 (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_M37)

[markus]

Fair comment :D your right ... Men are nearly as bad as women for cheating

[robs]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone,

Raymond, that's something that never occurred to me before, but it makes a lot of sense. It's a sense of fun and understanding I think she needs - being a better dad to the kids is coming to me, but I've still got a lot of work to put in with her.

Markus, I see your point but think our relationship has some honesty left in tact.

We talked the other night, and she said she wanted to give it a month of us living together to see where we're at. I could have cried. At the time, I thought great, this means its better now. Then I realised that I'd taken one very small step forward and there was so much more to do.

On the weekly shopping stint, things felt 'normal' - I asked to hold her hand , but she said no. After all the things we've done in our marriage, even a hand-hold seems like such a big thing to me right now. I was gutted, but I understand.

We took the kids down to the beach yesterday - what a great day! So much fun & chilling out. We talked again, and I told her how I felt about the things I remember; some music, the things she wears, her perfume, all reminded me of better times. She was pretty cold to those thoughts, but did say she didn't feel cross at me any more.

I told her I felt it was really important both of us could be honest about seeing other people, and she said she wasn't intending on a relationship wih everyone else. She just wanted to know we could still be together, and that she could be strong on her own too.

Still no affection there, but at least we can talk. It's really hard not hugging or holding hands, never mind the deeper attraction we had before. I can't dwell on that now, just taking it as it comes.

Maybe we will split and I'll be a weekend dad. I think we'd still be friends. I'm still determined that we stay a couple, but perhaps we'll be different in the future.

Take care all
Rob :rolleyes:

[Raymond]

There are signs of a slight thaw Rob that hopefully will increase. You are doing well. I know there is a long way to go, but don't let this overwhelm you. Just get your mind on the little small steps one at a time. They will add up to a lot. You are under pressure in creating new habits, which hopefully will become lifetime habits, that will enrich your marriage. A month is not very long, but you will have to use it to woo her over again it seems. I sincerely hope you are successful. You have learned a lot in a short time.

Raymond

[IcingOnTheMoon]

Hi Rob!
In your original post you sound just like MY husband! He's the neat freak, I'm not. It's more important to me that our kids are happy than if the glass table is fingerprint-free. He also is less than patient with the kids sometimes and only recently they have all found a game that they can play together online. Also my hubby likes to stay at home and has friends, but none that are really close, or that he really wants to "hang out" with. I'm the social butterfly and like to be around people. Most of my husband's behavior stems from the many years he spent in the Army (I'm in the US btw) and the military is full of discipline, hence the neatness and high expectations of his boys. Is there an age difference between you and your wife? I ask because I am 11 years younger than my husband and when we got married I was only 22. I loved him with all my heart, and knew he was "the one" (and only) for me, but the youth in me still wished he wanted to go out more. Even if just for a drink once in a while or to listen to some live music somewhere. However, I knew that I was married now, and a step-mother to 2 boys who desperately needed a mom and a stable home life, so I grew up fast and I wouldn't trade my life for anything now. Of course, like any marriage, we have our troubles, but it's a solid marriage with a lot of give and take. Just some thoughts on how I feel with a hubby with similar traits...
Hang in there!

[DavidH]

you sound just like MY husband! He's the neat freak, I'm not. It's more important to me that our kids are happy than if the glass table is fingerprint-free. He also is less than patient with the kids sometimes and only recently they have all found a game that they can play together online. Also my hubby likes to stay at home and has friends, but none that are really close, or that he really wants to "hang out" with. I'm the social butterfly and like to be around people. Most of my husband's behavior stems from the many years he spent in the Army (I'm in the US btw) and the military is full of discipline, hence the neatness and high expectations of his boys.

In view of your comments above you may find the 5th (last) page of the attached pdf of interest...

David

[robs]

Hi all

Raymond, 'little steps' is very true. Last night she called while I was just wrapping up at work - I could tell she was happier just from her voice. She'd called her dad and thought about things more.

When I got home, we hugged. It was the warmest feeling I've had for so long. We all went out for a meal as a family, and talked some more.

She asked if this was different, and I honestly knew it was. No looking back, little steps. We even joked about some silly stuff - smiling is so good.

I've made plans to go to some gigs, see some friends together (and individually), and I'm taking up sea kayaking with my son soon.

I still don't know where we'll end up, but I think it will be happy wherever it is. I practice 'me time' every day, just checking to see the inner child has everything. I've even taken an idea from Sienfeld, who uses a year calendar and ticks off every day as he practices writing. Why? It helps you build up a chain of good habit - the only rule is 'don't break the chain'. It works.

David, where's the chapter from? Sounds like an interesting read.

Take care all :)

[DavidH]

David, where's the chapter from? Sounds like an interesting read.

It's from this book: Embracing Each Other: Relationship as Teacher, Healer and Guide
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...648623-3202306 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1882591070/203-2648623-3202306)

I have started a thread about it here:

http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4553

Sorry I haven't been following your sitch...

David

[IcingOnTheMoon]

In view of your comments above you may find the 5th (last) page of the attached pdf of interest...

David

Very interesting, David! Thanks!

Robs, I'm glad things are better! Keep going!

[Raymond]

Persistance is the key Rob. All those little steps add up to something big and life changing, like the song "Once there was a little old ram thought he could punch a whole in the dam" by Frank Sinatra.

Raymond

[Stevet]

Robs,

Really glad to hear you are making progress. You are proving that you do have fight and determination and that will inevitably proove more attractive to your wife.

Wish you all the best of luck, just got to try and find some inner strength myself to try and save my marriage!

Steve

[the husband]

hi rob im new here but all i can say is do talk to her about everything,i have just found out my wife was having an affair and it kills,the main fault was we stopped talking about what we were unhappy about with each other and because she was unhappy she fell in love with someone else at work and had an affair,we are trying to sort things out but she still loves him too and works with him so i have my fingers crossed that we will so try to sort things out before its too late and she does the same thing be honest with each other now hope this helps

[markus]

Rob .. dont you think its strange that your relationship is suddenly having these problems ?
Emotional affair written all over it !

[robs]

Hi all

It's a funny thing, life. A lightning bolt hit me (not literally!) - I'm not getting stronger for her, I'm doing it for me. If it makes our relationship stronger, great; if not, I'm stronger anyway.

I realise now that you can't actually lose if you're honest with yourself, and completely fearless to face the consequences of things you've done. OK, so I made some big mistakes - laugh at it, pick up, move on. It's actually easy to start taking little steps like this, and each day gets better....

So where am we now? Well, we're good friends, really honestly talking about our feelings and the journey we're taking. It seems the truest thing to get rid of all the physical for now - memories are OK though.

We're talking about separating for a while, which feels like it might be OK. There's the adult stuff of money and houses to consider, plus the emotional talks with the kids to think about. It's not happening yet, might never happen, but the point is we're facing consequences are being honest.

Markus, you're a diamond - not sure you're right with this one tho. I'll buy you a drink if you are!

Hope my situation helps someone else feel stronger - give yourself a big hug if you're on your journey!

Peace ;)

[Raymond]

It's great that you are feeling stronger Rob. Make sure it doesn't turn into the kind of independence that doesn't invite her in though. Keep using the strength to do what you are doing, talking things through and sharing together. Just a thought.

Raymond

[markus]

Yes life is a funny thing ..
What motivated her to throw the towel in .. motivated you to change
hopefully your wife hasn't got a secret like this one that posted on another forum :D

I was married for 20 years. I loved being home and being a wife. The house was immaculate, I did all the gardening, everyone always had clean clothes in their closet, I made wonderful dinners every night, the children were all on the honor roll, and I worked out to stay fit and toned. I always felt like things got better every year - except for my husband. Every year he got a little fatter, a little drunker, and a little meaner.

When I decided to go back to work, I did it with the intention of becoming self sufficient to the point where I could leave my husband. No matter what I did or said, he still drank heavily and would not stop. I gave myself a one year timetable - I would work and save money for a year, and make my plans for a new life for me and the children.

When an out of town assignment came up, I volunteered to take it. I figured I needed a few days away because things were so depressing and ugly at home. Coincidentally, an old friend showed up at my work on the same day I got the assignment. He lived in the city that I was travelling to, and he suggested dinner the night I was there.

All that week I fantasized about him, even though he was out of my league. I even went so far as to purchase a sexy, lacy bra and thong set to wear that night, even though the odds of anything happening were impossibly small. And when I went to his office that afternoon, I actually felt silly about all the fantasies I had about him.

He suggested a restaurant that his friend owned. It was a high end Italian place, very beautiful and elegant. He ordered my dinner for me, and also wine to go with every course. Our conversations were amazing, the food was fantastic, and the wine - well, I drank a lot of wine. We laughed and looked into each other's eyes, and I knew right then that I was going to end up in his bed.

He took me back to his house, which was at the top of a hill at the end of the longest driveway ever. He had an amazing city lights view, and as I was admiring it he started to undress me. We worked our way back to his bedroom, with articles of clothes coming off the whole way. His bed was a massive antique 4-poster, very romantic.

It was the most incredible sex I have ever had. I never knew a man could make me feel like that.

The next day I asked my husband for a divorce. He cried and pleaded, and said he would never take another drink again, and that he would be a new man. And here it is, 6 months later, and he hasn't had a drop to drink and he's been a model husband and father.

And I think about my friend all the time. I think about that night, and how I felt, and the whole amazing experience and it makes me smile. I've never told anyone about it, and I'll never regret it. The only downside to this whole thing is that now I know what I'm missing in bed. The husband is not trainable in that respect. Also, I would never do anything like this again, because I realize that I was incredibly lucky not to get some kind of disease or get caught.

This affair, if you could call it that, is what gave me the nerve to ask for the divorce, which got my husband back on track. So I guess you could say that is is one of the best things that ever happened to me.

[deadletteroffice]

I don't know - if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. The angry possessive jealous thing has to be left behind I think. A marriage has to be bigger than that.

[Alice Alice]

Rob ... When a women suddenly out the blue changes the way she is with you and wants you out etc it can only mean one thing

She's having an affair
Ive seen it so many times before on here and other forums

Brace yourself mate ... i never get it wrong

Dont go looking to change yourself yet !! keep an eye on her
is she getting home late from work .. is she out a lot etc

I smell a rat :eek:

not true...hope you found a good woman

[judstew]

Hi,

I am officially seconding the motion that you read the five love languages. This is a FANTASTIC book - I just took a seminar on it with John Drescher, also an author, and it was really great.

Also I want to point out...and i've only been in these forums for about a week...that there are a few people who consistently believe that all failed marriages or marital problems are the result of infidelity. I don't buy this at all - especially in this case. Sounds like you know what happened and are making positive changes to heal and move forward.

Kudos to you! It takes a strong person to look at themselves/oneself critically, assess the situation, and move forward.

Judith

[Mandymay]

Sorry Markus I do not agree with this statement that men are nearly as bad as women.
Fair comment :D your right ... Men are nearly as bad as women for cheating

As I believe the sexes are more equal tipping towards men offending more infidelitiy than women as they have more leadway and opportunity than women who generally are bound by the marital children and do not have as much accessible free unquestionable time on their hands to do so. This not saying that women do not think of such things but having the opportuntiy to act upon it is a different matter. I for one have has 2 previous partners cheat on me and have never cheated or thought of cheating on any of them nor my current husband/ Partner of 9yrs.

Just because this woman has opted for him to leave does not indicate she is having an affair. Maybe she has been feeling hurt and neglected for so long and bottling it up that she has finally cracked, I know that is what I do, as I hate confrontation, maybe her feelings have been stamped on in her eyes for so long that she can not see it being repairable or him being capable of any long term changes and the thought of it being over is giving her a sense of a means to an end of the hurt she is feeling and the neglect she has been enduring. Maybe she is trying a scare tactic to see if he loves her enough to make an effort.
Loneliness and being unloved is the worst feeling in the world and even worst when you can have someone sitting right beside you and still feel alone, that is when it becomes sad.
My advice is to show her repeatedly, and re-warm her heart as she has been left too long and allowed to go cold. Really if she wanted to be gone from you she wouldn't be hanging in the house waiting for you to leave, she would pack her stuff and be gone, then worry about the legalities of the house and possessions later, She's waiting for something! Maybe for you to get your act together and fix things! That's what I would be doing!