My wife says she loves me, but ......

[Lanzo]

My wife says she loves me, but is not in love with me, or in everyday terms she no longer “fancies me”, and doesn’t wants to have sex. I guessed this is a sanitised version of how she feels. I have confided in one of her friends because I was desperately trying to find out what was going on and she has quoted my wife as saying “I look at him and feel absolutely nothing”. My heart hangs heavy every time I repeat this in my head. How long has she felt like this ? possibly about 4 years, if I think back through our whole relationship it could go back as long as we have been married.

So this is the latest revelation after about five turbulent years in our near 10 year marriage, and it’s taken me all of this time to find out what’s been troubling her.

Where to start ? I am 44, my wife is 43 were both young looking and attractive for our age, we’ve been together 14 years, 10 years married and we have a five year old daughter who we both adore, but my daughter is especially close to me.

Through out our relationship we’ve had our ups and downs, silly arguments, mainly starting from what she perceives to be my bad /annoying habits, example, me leaving cupboard doors open, not lifting the toilet seat, not tidying up etc. Trivial maybe but these things would lead to bigger bust ups, then we dont talk to each other for days, even weeks (we’re both stubborn characters). I would usually give way for a quiet life as she cranks up the pressure, and that’s the cycle we would go through. I now know most her annoyance with me was more to justify the changes in her feelings rather than me being a bad person.

Two years ago, after one such argument she screamed at me out of the blue "that this marriage was over" I just said ok it’s over. For the next 10 months or so, we drifted only talking to each other when we had to. During this period, my wife developed a lung condition which was later diagnosed as something which would require permanent medication, at the time it was a major concern but thankfully she is recovering. The other thing that she started to do was to go out with relatives who lived in another town, which usually meant an overnight or weekend stay. This culminated in her meeting someone, and sleeping with them in a hotel. I found out immediately, but in my panic and upset state, I accepted all responsibility and tried my hardest to patch things up between us. We didn’t get full closure on this affair for another 3 months as the OM was still phoning and texting. I finally put things to an end when I called him and warned him off.

So we had another year of trying to make a go of things but on reflection we just drifted again. During all of this time I used to check her phone constantly (in the middle of the night most times). I also found the number of another man she called regularly, her friend tells me this was someone she met along time ago (7 or 8 years ). When I eventually confronted her about this second man she said it was someone she confided in about the state of our marriage and her unhappiness with me. If I follow my gut reaction I’d say this was another affair. She strongly denies it, I did find one text which was part of a dialogue between them, in it she referred to not being able to have “a f*** as she was on” (her period). She says this was referring to me, as he was telling her grit her teeth or get drunk and just get it on with me. It’s all plausible but I told her, affair or not, it’s wrong for a married woman to keep a secret male friend and to also use explicit language with them. She agreed she was wrong about the secrecy, but again she swears there was no (sexual) affair.

These latest revelations have actually led to us talking more hence me finding out how my wife really feels about me. In a strange way I was glad to find out she had an interest in sex, (the only problem it’s not with me). Sex between us had stopped immediately our daughter was conceived, it was patchy for a while after she was born(3 times in a year ), and now has gone to non-existent .

One of the reasons my wife had apparently gone off me is that after our daughter was born prematurely (29 weeks), I turned into an over protective father and number one carer, she said I neglected her, and myself as I devoted myself to looking after our daughter. I gained a lots of weight and looked a bit of a slob mainly due to fast food and alcohol. It took me sometime (and my wifes affair) to realise this. Now I’m back in the gym and looking and feeling fit, as she says she has fleeting moment of looking at me and finding me attractive but then says it’s not enough.

So back to today, she doesn’t love me like she used to, but she doesn’t want to let go of me, or for me to go. The recent long discussion came about after she told me she would miss me when I go away on my next business trip for 2 weeks. I told her that the separation could become permanent, and her saying that she would miss me was just giving me false hope that she really cared about me. I said once you tell some one you have no feelings for them, that’s it you have no feelings. I told her that I need to feel loved in a full relationship and maybe I should leave permanently. He first response was that she had no job, and I would be leaving her with no money a child to look after. Then after a continuation of our talking she said she’s doesn’t know what to do next, one minute she’s talking about us seeing a sex therapist to help her over come our problems, next she saying she feels trapped in the marriage and maybe she’s the one who needs to get away and have a fresh start.

So she doesn’t know what to do next, and because I’m waiting for her to make her mind up (and I’ve been waiting a long time) I don’t know what to do. I could try to force the issue and move out but in reality I couldn’t afford to rent another place and I would miss our daughter terribly (or are these just excuses?).

At the moment I am limbo (again) so I would welcome any comments, advise or just words of comfort.


Lan

[Raymond]

Stick it out and be faithful. I know something has to come from her as well but that's all you can do. Your marriage seems rocky. Mine was for the first two years. My wife used to slam the door and walk out, but she only walked round the block then came sheepishly home. We both were determined to work through our incombatibility and are much more of a team now. From my part it was a lot of sacrifice in changing and looking at things differently but that's part of what love is.

Hopefully your wife can mature in her attitude as she does sound immature to me, but she can grow. I don't think you have to make a decision yet, just keep on loving and hoping (and praying).

Raymond

[Lanzo]

Hi Raymond,


If as you say my wife could mature in her attitude and was willing to work with me I know we could make it, but how do I get her to change ?.

I have already made all of the sacrifices and I have endured a lot more a heartache than I have written in this thread. I think at this moment I just needed to unburden myself as my wife and I (especially me) do a very good job of keeping our problems away from family and friends and to most of them we look the perfect couple. Every now and then the strain starts to show on me and I really feel drained.

Thanks for your kind words, they were just what I needed now to give me fresh inspiration to pursue with this marriage.

Lan

[Hopeful0788]

If there is one thing in my life I have learned up to this point, it is that YOU definately can not change HER! You can only change you to be the best you can and love her as much as you can and pray for the best after that.

[Lanzo]

Hi Billyboy,

Just like you, my wife tells me she loves having me around and she really enjoys being a family with me and our daughter. She will draw me closer if I indicate that I’ve had enough, but she will keep me at a distance when things are comfortable.

Life’s tough, but I draw comfort from the advice of others who have posted to me and that is, “Change yourself to be the best you can”. This is what intend to do, focus a bit more on me while still loving her. That way if I remain in or out of the marriage there will be a good person there waiting to love and be loved. I hope you can do the same too.

Good luck to you in whatever the future holds.

Lan

[David H]

She will draw me closer if I indicate that I’ve had enough, but she will keep me at a distance when things are comfortable.


"The way the dynamic in a dysfunctional relationship works is in a "come here" - "go away" cycle. When one person is available the other tends to pull away. If the first person becomes unavailable the other comes back and pleads to be let back in. When the first becomes available again then the other eventually starts pulling away again. It happens because our relationship with self is not healed. As long as I do not love myself then there must be something wrong with someone who loves me - and if someone doesn't love me than I have to prove I am worthy by winning that person back."

http://joy2meu.com/codependent4.htm

David

[cheryl*]

Hi Lanzo

You know reading through your story ,you have been treated so unfairlyby your wife , I dont know how you have stuck it for so long " I really dont " . I think you sound like a nice guy & really deserve to meet someone who would love & cherish you .The way it should be . You can still be a perfect dad to your little girl . You deserve to be happy .Move on and think of the future Good luck

[Lanzo]

Hi Cheryl,

If I read my post and it was from another person I would be saying the same as you, move on, but as we all know it’s so difficult when your own emotions are wrapped up in things. I 've stuck things out for so long because I didn't want a broken marriage like my parents and so many other people I know.

I woke up this morning and thought I do need to do something, and something positive, and this was even before reading your reply.

As I said before I am going to start to put me and my feelings first, get myself in shape physically and mentally and take it from there. I am a good person, which is why my wife won’t let go of me, but I don’t want to be in a situation of moving out just to make a point only to get sucked back in again. But at some point I will need to draw the line.

Opening up my feelings and my situation on this forum, and getting the responses I have has given me a lift so I am feeling more hopeful for the future.

Lan

[David H]

I Agree with what you were saying about being drawn closer and pushed away as well and im going to look into the mechanics behind that as david has posted because that seems to be happening to me too .


Yes, codependency -- a normal interdependent relationship contains some, along with some counterdependency but the relationship is predominently inter-dependent.

The problems occur, apparently because codependents "love addicts" attract each other -- a "normal" inter-dependent person will not get into a relationship with a codependent "love addict" type person.

Codependents also have poor self-esteem and weak boundaries

A further problem is stated here:
http://www.50connect.co.uk/50c/romancestories.asp?article=12527

Takers are people who tend to be narcissistic - that is, they are self-centered with an excessive need for attention and admiration. The taker attempts to control getting love, attention, approval or sex from others with anger, blame, violence, criticism, irritation, righteousness, neediness, invasive touch, invasive energy, incessant talking and/or emotional drama. The taker uses many forms of both overt and covert control to get the attention he or she wants.

Takers not only want a lot of control, but are often afraid of being controlled and become overtly or covertly resistant to doing what someone else wants them to do. The taker might resist with denial, defending, procrastination, rebellion, irresponsibility, indifference, withdrawal, deadness, numbness, rigidity, and/or incompetence.
In a relationship, takers operate from the belief that "You are responsible for my feelings of pain and joy. It is your job to make sure that I am okay."

A codependent in "recovery" MUST avoid certain personality types in future relationships....

"Addiction to Love" Susan Peabody. Page 127 "Personality Types That Trigger Addictive Behaviour"

"The worst personality type for love addicts is the narcissist. They are unavailable because they are terrified of engulfment..."
"These two types of people bring out the worst in each other"

Unfortunately for me, my W(ex)GF has narcissistic traits, so as a soon-to-be recovering codependent, I can never reconcile with her unless she changes and this is extremely unlikely...

The bottom line is if you are codependent you have to heal yourself (via therapy, etc, see www.bacp.co.uk (http://www.bacp.co.uk)) before you can have a "normal" relationship in the future...

David

[Lanzo]

Hi Billyboy,

If we take the main points from the post of David H, we as codependants will sacrifice our needs to take care of the needs of others, we also give to others out of fear, rather than love. I can certainly feel theses emotions in my marriage.

Because of our codependant personalities we cannot change everything in one go. We can contemplate change, and possibly walking out, but we will never do so because we can always find an excuse to stop us. So we need to take control of one aspect that is within our grasps, and that is ourselves. Build up that self esteem and self respect and let others gravitate to us.

I still have a positive feeling today and it’s not fuelled by thoughts of moving on, but its by what am I going to do to make myself feel better. If we forget about the immediate problems and our partners for a while, we stop making ourselves that convenient doormat because we are focused on something else. We stop giving because we are busy doing. If the moment we both dread happens and our partners leave or ask us to leave then there will be a self confident, upstanding individual waiting to move on to the next phase of their lives.

I now see that I don’t need to stay with my W at all costs and I no longer fear losing her. I am prepared to work at things but no longer to the point of becoming a non existent person. I think I can stay strong now I hope you can too.

PS: with this new self belief beware of the counterdepentant counter attack we both know it will come.J

[Lanzo]

Today I had one of those mixed message’s days.
I am about to go on my two week business trip and my W suggested we have a family day where we and our daughter spend time together. We went to the shopping mall that is located on the water front, and we walked, we talked, we played with our daughter, we watched a ship go under the elevating bridge and in general we had a good time. When we were walking she slipped her hand into mine and smiled at me and said it’s great to be able to do family things together. In the past I would get a big lift and think things were going my way, but today I said to myself nothing has changed. When we sat down I pulled away from her and she asked if it was ok to hold hands, I said yes, but you do realise that you are sending mixed messages again. (I used to think these thoughts but today I dared to say it to her). Later when we were having our pub lunch she asked me why was I smiling, I said I feel good about myself, and I am slowly realising that we both can be happy in the future, and that future can be together or apart. I think I struck a chord as we have both have been avoiding talking about any kind of separation. As we chatted she was already planning further family activities for when I return from my trip. I can already feel the classic pull of the counterdependant and I am being drawn in, how do I resist it ? Any way I am away for two weeks with plenty of time for me to think about things.

Bye for now

Lan

[Lanzo]

I think I posted earlier that I needed to start to take control of my situation so I decided to do so. Just before leaving for my two week business trip I told my W that I really thought enough was enough, and while I was away she should have a good think about our marriage and what she wanted from it. I myself was thinking about separation or divorce. I‘ve never thought about this before, I don’t have a plan, but I was thinking enough of this hanging around and letting someone one toy with my emotions, I need to make a clear decision.

While I was away I made a call home basically asking her how she was and was she missing me. When she replied no, and that she could now actually sleep with out me disturbing her, I just flipped. :eek: I let rip verbally with a lot of things that I’ve kept pent up for a long while. I never said anything that was untrue, I just pointed out some of her bad points, her unfair and devious actions, especially things that she never thought I knew and it gave her a massive wake up call. Her only come back to me in all of this was I was 3000 miles away and she wasn’t able to defend herself. In the past I’ve shut my eyes and ears to many things in the hope that I didn’t upset things any more than they already were, maybe this has been a failing on my part.

Anyway all of this sent my W running to a mutual friend where she confided that she didn’t want to lose me or the marriage and was basically looking for advise on how to make things work.

If I fast forward to today, yes we are working on things and our day to day relationship is better. (one of the reasons I’ve not posted for a while). I still get shouted at out of the blue for trivial things, but I now I react in a way that doesn’t lead to things escalating. (I haven’t worked out exactly what I’m doing different). The sex side of the marriage hasn’t returned although we have enjoyed one or two hugs and kisses. Some of the advise my W got from our mutual friend was this side of the marriage has to be worked on and probably at a faster pace than she was comfortable with. My W has been telling me for a while that we should take things slowly regarding sex. This was one of the thing that had really been bugging me, and I told her in my phone tirade that I am her husband of nearly 10 years and she’s asking me to take things slowly, whereas it took her less than 10 seconds to jump into bed with another man. (Ouch !!).

So at the moment we are in a calm phase, I’m just getting on with things and not disturbing her in the bedroom and generally being a good husband around the house (really this is no change from the norm). I’m definitely trying to avoid tit for tat arguments and the “push pull” situation we always get into. She on the other hand has a new job which has really lifted her spirits. She had been in various temporary jobs for the last 6 months which was getting her down. Her overall health is better and I can actually feel that she is making genuine attempt to move us forward.

The overall tone of this post is very positive, but believe me things are still up and down. We still have a long way to go and I realise that our marriage won’t just happen, we have to work on it everyday, but I’ll keep persevering. I think the piece of mind I now have is that I know in my own mind what I need to do. I no longer have the feeling that we need to stay together at any costs, although I do pray that things mend and we do stay together.

I’ll post again in a while and keep my friends (billyboy) updated on how I am progressing.


Lan

[David H]

The overall tone of this post is very positive, but believe me things are still up and down. We still have a long way to go and I realise that our marriage won’t just happen, we have to work on it everyday, but I’ll keep persevering. I think the piece of mind I now have is that I know in my own mind what I need to do.

I think you could both benefit from some individual therapy from a therapist you have confidence in...

Find one here (UK): www.bacp.co.uk

David

Remember:

http://www.50connect.co.uk/50c/romancestories.asp?article=12527
"Relationships heal when individuals heal. When each partner does their Inner Bonding work, their relationship system heals. When each person learns to take full personal responsibility for his or her own feelings of pain and joy, they stop pulling on each other and blaming each other. When each person learns to fill themselves with love and share that love with each other, instead of always trying to get love, the relationship heals."

[Lanzo]

David H

I was fortunate at the time of my wifes affair that I was able to take some confidential individual counselling provided by my employer. The main incite that I got from these sessions was that my non confrontational nature comes about from me trying to be the opposite type of person to my father, and also a promise I made to my mother when I was about six years old (Sorry but I don’t want to give out any details). This was the only time I cried in these session and even my wifes infidelity didn’t bring on the water works.

The other thing is my wife has started on an upward trend (health improving, new job, money to pay off those dreaded credit cards) she is feeling better about herself so this is having a beneficial effected on our relationship.
I didn’t go into too much details about my wifes health problems at the start of this thread, but the very early prognosis was about 5 – 7 years to live, (maybe this was why she did some of those silly things). However her condition as been more accurately diagnosed, and while she will never be 100%, she will be able lead a normal life with the aid of medication.

billyboy
when I returned from my two week trip I found that the house was in an absolute tip, and I could see that my w had struggled to cope while I was away, I didn’t make a big deal out of it, like she would have done if it was me I just got on with things. However, the one thing that I am trying not to do is to fall back into that old routine, and I’ll use your analogy where she is the driver and I am the passenger. so I’ve set in my mind on what I need to do.

I’ve learned recently is that my actions cannot make things any worse than they are, or have been. Why ? because I’ve done nothing wrong. (something for you to think about) , If I do something that causes an argument, I don’t chase around now and over compensate to bring about some sort of peace, I just get on with things. Having a focus moves you from the centre of limbo to the edge. I’m getting near to the edge , then I will have to make that big leap if things dont improve. ( I hope it doesn't come to that).

The other thing helping me to focus is that I don’t feel we need to stay together for me to be a 100% dad to my daughter (based on a lot of things I’ve read). If we did split I could still be a top dad whatever the circumstances. This is another thing you should bear in mind, it a situation we dread but sometimes we have to plan for the worst (but we’re really hoping for the best).

The ironic thing is this evening we had an argument , this time about me using the F word within earshot of our daughter. I actually said “eff off” and not “fcuk off”, but because the teachers at school have spoken to us on certain matters my wife was non too pleased with me. Ok I’m at fault here, I tried to make the peace, she wasn’t having any of it. So tonight we go to bed without talking, oh well tomorrows another day.


Lan

[Lanzo]

Hi Everyone,

I need some help and advice on which way to turn and what my next move should be.

A lot has happened since I last posted and things have been mostly good, or so I thought.

My W and I have spent time talking about the future, ie decorating the house, our daughters schooling, next years holiday even though we’ve just come back from one this year, and also our upcoming 10th wedding anniversary. Even though things felt good I always had this nagging doubt that something wasn’t quite right, mainly because we still weren’t having sex, and there was still the occasional put down or dig at me. We did attempt sex on two occasions. On the first she couldn’t relax so that was a failure. Before our second attempt she had a long chat on the phone with her best friend and promised to do her best, and true to her word we managed it just before we went on holiday. She even phoned her friend from the airport to let her know how well things went.

Although I had stopped checking her cell phone the doubts were still there in my mind so my instincts led me to go further and I pulled her phone log from the phone company. Low and behold I found recent contact in the last two months between her and the original OM from two years ago. I’m not sure if contact ever ceased but she won’t confirm or deny this. I found this before we went on holiday, and before the sex, so I thought this could have been a momentary lapse on her part. But I checked the log after our holiday and there was a call to the OM the day after we returned home followed by a call to me. (Yep I’m second best in her eyes).

Anyway I confronted her about having contact with the OM and she denied, and denied and denied. She even accused me of wrecking our recent happiness and the steps we had taken forward . In fact she was so convincing that she had me doubting myself and the evidence I had found. So I let her continue to lie to me until she was at a point of no return, then I handed her a copy of the phone log, then silence, no more arguing, no more shouting. She now refuses to answer questions because she says there no point as I won’t believe her answers.

So now I need help, I’ve moved into my daughters room and my daughter is with my W. Realistically I’ve tried everything to make this marriage work but now I think we need to separate. The problem I have is I can’t afford to rent elsewhere, the money I make is just enough to cover the mortgage and the bills. (Note: the recent holiday was free airline tickets and accommodation with friend, everything else on credit cards). I have immediate family but no one with a room where I could move in for say a month, and really I don't want to impose on anyone just now. She’s also said she’s not going to move out and we’re not selling the house. But why should I move out when I’ve done nothing wrong. I know while I’m still around she is in a comfort zone and can carry on, as she is doing, as if there’s nothing wrong. So I’m in the house with her, the atmosphere is very bad, even at my optimistic best I can’t see a way forward, so how should I conduct myself if I’m left with the option of living separate lives in the same house. Or should I just get out. The way I’ve been treated yes I should get out but I feel trapped.

Help needed


Lan

[Lanzo]

Hi Billyboy,

The contact she had with OM was one call in May, one in June and two txt in June plus the one call on the return from our holiday in July. Not a lot when I look at all of the calls in the log, but when we decided to give things a go 2 years ago we said absolutely no contact with him, and if he called she should let me know and we deal with it together.
I could have given her the benefit of the doubt but the most hurtful things was the lies, she looked me in the eyes and lied, I offered her so many escape routes but she still lied. She even offered to take a lie detector test, then tried to turn things around on me to make things out to be my fault. She has to be the most convincing liar I’ve come across, she really had me doubting myself and the concrete evidence in my hand.

We had a big argument and I called her a ”hoe” and that seemed like the excuse she needed to justify her behaviour. She’s the aggressor again not prepared to give answer and acting really blasé when I said I was going.

I just feel really gutted.

Anyway I’ve packed my bags, not sure where I’m going or who will have me.

I’ve got to get ready now for the fall out, I’ve kept all of this from our family and friends, now it will all come out. I have a real sense of shame and embarrassment that I have to deal with and I’ve done nothing wrong, absolutely nothing wrong. I’m asking myself why should I move out when I’ve done nothing wrong…… but something has to happen to break the cycle.

I just told my daughter Daddy has to go away for a while, I’m fighting back the tears as I write this. I know I’ll see her every other day when I pick her up from school but it’s not the same, not the normal family life I’ve always wanted.

Sorry I just got interrupted… we just had a little chat about our legal position with the house and bills etc, she just asked that I make sure the mortgage is paid. Then in a calm way she just said she’s not asking me to move out.

Would you believe it !?!?

Anyway I’m gone in a few minutes. Thanks for listening.


Lan

[Lanzo]

Hi Again,

I’m ok at the moment, I’m staying at my sisters house ( the one my W hates) and it’s quite comfortable, I’ve got Sky Sports on satellite now, and broadband being connected next week. With the shift patterns and holidays of her two grown up daughters she can mange to keep me in a bed until end of August if I want and I don’t need to pay rent, I just need to fix a few things around the house, then after that who knows.

However, I had the wind taken out of my sails earlier today. My W spoke to our only friend who knows our situation from both sides and told her that I had decided to call it quits on the marriage and walk out on her, and she was very upset by it all. (pinning the blame on me again). She also said that she knows I will be back…. sooner rather than later. The sad truth is sooner or later I will have to go back as I can’t impose on my sister past the end of August and I can’t afford to rent another place. So yes (Billboy) I think she sees this as a token gesture on my part.

Although I’ve moved out, I will return every other day to see my daughter and put her to bed, but my W will also get to see me and still be in some kind of comfort zone . I guess all I can do for now is to enjoy the time out of the mad house, relax and recharge my mental strength and get ready for the battles ahead.


Lan

[Lanzo]

Hi Billyboy,

It looks like it’s you and me riding out this storm together.

My W seems to play this game much better than me, today she out manoeuvred me by phoning to say she would be running late and wouldn’t be around when I arrived home with our daughter. Then when she did arrived late she totally ignored me, and then was openly hostile. In the end she made me feel so uncomfortable that I had to leave before giving our daughter a bath and putting her to bed. On the plus side (if there is one) I didn’t play the victim and I didn’t get emotional, I just packed more stuff and went.

The vibe that I picked up today was she’s ready to tough things out in the short term, “ You’ve moved out so what next ? ”. To be honest I think me moving out has only caused a small ripple in her comfort zone. The only thing which would shake her to the core is if I actually served divorce papers on her. I’m thinking about it, but it’s the cost involved which is holding me back. If there is anyone else out there who can advise on the cost of initiating divorce proceedings then leaving it up to the other person to make a move please speak up. Up to now everything has been place onto me and I’ve done nothing wrong, even raising the spectre of divorce is going to make me out to be the bad guy.

The worry I have now is that when me and W are in strife it affects our daughter. A while back when me and W were in a bad spell our girl started pinching, kicking and pulling hair of the other kids. Today when I picked her up from the summer camp the carers reported that she’s been pinching the other kids, and I also noticed that she was…. well not her normal self. I know she does this because she is missing the attention she gets from me, this really breaks my heart.

The other thing which gets to me is my sister and our muitual friend both say that me and W are likely to stay together in long term, but life will be no different than it has been already. Is this what the future hold for me, really ???? Please no!!!

Lan

[Lanzo]

Overall the first week out of the house was tough.

My W phoned my mobile a number of times on Thursday and let our daughter leave a tearful voice mail saying daddy come home. I ignored it,that was tough, very tough, even heartbreaking. The following day I had a tearful moment in work thinking about our little girl crying on the phone, my eyes were very red, so I just claimed hay fever and left early. When I returned home on Friday I was expecting to get more hostility from W but instead I was just told that she hadn’t wanted to speak to me, it was our daughter. But I explained again, under my new rules, I return home Mon, Wed, Fri, for a couple of hours, on other days she has to deal with our daughter. Weekends are my own. It’s tough on the kid though, she says she misses me and feels scared in the house because I’m not there, it really tugs at my heart and I can’t begin to explain the heartache this causes me, I’ll have to think more on how to handle this part of things.

My W has told our friend that she knows me like the back of her hand, and that I am weak and will return home this weekend, but she did add that if I didn’t then she’ll know that I meant business. To be honest moving out was a token gesture on my part as I felt something needed to be done, but now I know it was the right thing to do. Maybe I keep moving and don’t go back, maybe it’s for the best. I keep getting low moments, and I still get the urge to return home but I have to fight it. I know at some stage I’ll have to sit down with W and discuss finances but I think I’ll wait a couple of weeks and let the reality of today’s situation sink in with her. Then maybe we can start talking seriously about us.

So for this weekend, I’m sorted, I’ve got enough things going on to occupy my mind. Getting through another week at work is going to be tough as my mind keeps wandering and some of my work is slipping. so I think I‘ll have a word with my boss.

Other than that I’ll keep you all posted.

Lan

[Lanzo]

Second week out of the house, emotionally it’s been tough, but time has gone quicker than the first. I’m trying to do a 180 on W, not chasing her, not discussing things with her unless appropriate, not giving out information on my activities, but I find that she does it naturally and more affective to me, giving me the cold shoulder when I come home, coming across aggressive, and acting like she doesn’t give a stuff about me moving out. So I am finding it hard to gauge if I’m having an affect on her, I need a boost from anyone to remind me that I’m doing the right thing.

W and mutual friend are out together tonight but I’ve told friend not to report anything back to me as I found that this was a big source of me clinging onto W and I need to prepare for a break if it happens.

My 5 year old daughter is adapting well to the situation she’s stopped crying but keeps asking why I have to go away in the evenings. She even told me “just do what mummy says” and she’ll let you stay in the house. (Bless her). I’ve read so much this week about moving on that I understand some of the things I need to do. Look good, feel good etc. in fact I was so determined not to stay in this evening that I went out with my 20 year old niece for a drink, it got me out of the house and rubbing shoulders with people that I’ll be socializing with soon. A small step but a significant one.

I am trying to stay positive but it’s difficult, so we’ll see what the next week brings .

Lan

PS: Billyboy, the book “Stop my divorce” makes very good reading and has underpinned most of my actions for this week. I can email to you if you want.

[AnnieP]

Well done Lanzo. I too am on week 2 now and am finding it really hard. I am so sorry you find your little girl so hard to deal with: it must be heart breaking. Thank goodness we do not have children. I found myself crying all day yesterday. Then he rang and we had a great chat, and suddenly, bingo, I feel happy and positive again. It is such a rollercoaster.
Hang on tight... I am sure we can get through it....
I'd love to read your book. Is it an e book? You said to Billyboy about emailing it??

[Lanzo]

I’m not sure what the protocol is on emailing fellow site members, but the e book I am reading is called “Stop your Divorce” by Homer Mcdonald. I’ve added a link to the site, and on it are some of the tips the book gives you on building up your own self esteem and or winning your partner back. I found it very useful.

http://www.stopyourdivorce.com/ (http://www.stopyourdivorce.com/)


Lan

[Lanzo]

3 weeks out of the house

After the initial jolt of me moving out W has just settled back into her comfort zone, knowing full well that all the bills are paid, I come home for a couple of hours every other day, and I am the one suffering all of the discomfort and unsettlement of moving out. On the face of it she didn’t seem bothered and she always made sure that she gave me a frosty reception or totally ignored me. Too be honest it was really getting me down. So I took two pieces of inspiration from the books the that I am reading.

Savemymarriage2 said before you can move on with your life (or win your partner back) you have to accept your marriage as it was is so over and act accordingly.

Saveyoudivorce said if what you are doing (moving out) is not working then do something different. It also said if your partner wants a divorce, agree with them and offer them a divorce.

So in my mind I accepted everything was over, I wrote out all the steps needed for divorce, who petitions who, how much it would cost etc. I went home to another frosty reception so I handed her the list which she promptly threw on the table without reading so I left the house immediately. Two minutes into my drive away my phone rings its my W, she has obviously read the note now and wants to know why the marriage is over, why do I want a divorce (as she doesn't want one), when am I moving back and can we talk. The shock tactic seems to have worked.

I am going to let her stew for a bit as I've told her there’s no point in talking until she can be courteous to me when I return home and we can have a civil conversation.

Friday things seemed to have reverted back to the norm, I came home to the usual frosty reception, then W tried to start an argument over £2.50 for the window cleaner. She didn’t have any change so I said I would pay it if she paid me back. Anyway she had a rant about me being a penny pincher and said that I was out of order, and if that’s how things were I shouldn’t touch any food in the house that she’s just bought. I just agreed with her so as not to fuel her anger, just like my book says Grrrrrrrrr !!! Actually I know the real anger is not about the £2.50, if I read in what all of the the books are saying, it’s either, anytime I do anything for her, it’s confirming what she thinks about me, that I am weak. Paying that money was like saying “I love you please take me back”. Or she’s looking for an argument which will escalate into a slanging match so she can justify her actions and suppress her guilt.

Ahh well I’m still learning.

The real hurtful thing for me is the anger from her all the time, I’m the one who has been wronged but she the one who is angry. I’m still working on how to turn this around.

That’s it for this week


Lan

[AnnieP]

Lan, I'm getting the anger too. My H had the affair, he decided he needed to walk out of our home and marriage and his responsibilities to get "space". He's the one costing us huge amounts of money extra each month while he rents his place in London, and I am still the one in the wrong.
I'm trying my best to keep everything going here, act as normal (as bar a couple, literally, all our acquaintances are completely in the dark still), adn be supportive, and despite this, he still gets angry/is totally cold with me when we do speak. I'm not bothering any more. I cannot do right for doing wrong, so I may as well not bother.
Let him lick his wounds in private and solitude.
I hope he will realise in time that he is angry with himself, not me, and I hope your wife realises the same, given time.
The delusion is incredible.
Chin up.
xx

[Lanzo]

I went home on Saturday night to get some clothes as I was determined not to stay in again, W was not too pleased to see me. Sunday morning I get a txt from her saying we need to talk later in the evening. From this meeting she took the conversation straight into splitting the bills and separating permanently, and the bottom line was she now she wants a divorce. She says the last straw was me calling her a “Hoe” in a previous argument (the only time I’ve really lost it with her in 10 years). Hmmm…..poor excuse and her putting the blame on me again. Nothing said about her conversing with the OM from 2 years ago and breaking the trust we were trying to build.

Well, I’m absolutely gutted, I’m going to have a few drinks tonight to deaden the pain, then I’ll see what tomorrow and the rest of the week brings.


Lan

[AnnieP]

So sorry to hear this Lan.
Has she got any grounds to divorce you? If not, then that is a decision she cannot make. You should not be bullied into this. Sit it out until you are sure of your feelings and cut the communication in the meantime....
Have you sought legal advice to see where you would stand financially etc? Might be worth a fact finding mission, again, just so you have the knowledge, should you need it.
Be strong. These people we love are out of their minds at present.
xx

[Lanzo]

Hi Anne

Thanks for those kind words

W has no grounds whatsoever to divorce me, whilst I on the other hand have plenty of grounds. It seems suddenly shes had a change of mind and sees me as some sort of monster who she is afraid of and wants to get away from. Again she’s trying to create situations to justify her actions and also to keep herself angry with me. Legally I know where I stand, financially it’s going to be tough but I just have to go with it. Contact is down to 3 times a week when I come to see my daughter but we will need to talk more about the financials etc. As with you very few people know what’s going on as I’ve kept up a reasonably happy front.

So I will try and keep strong and see which way the wind blows tomorrow.

Lan

[Lanzo]

I am off work for 3 days looking after my daughter in the marital home. I was really low this morning with what’s going on, and this was compounded by the fact that my daughter has turned into a little screaming brat not the little girl I recognised. Throwing tantrums and generally being unruly, and when I say anything to her she screams “just because I haven’t seen you for a few days!!” so I can see the situation is getting to her.

As far a W is concerned I think she is doing her best to regain control of the situation, so i think tactics are at play here. Yes she’s turned things around on me again and it’s my move now. I think from yesterdays conversation she was expecting me to beg to return home or some thing like that but I just agreed with her that things were hopeless and that there was no turning back. She’s still looking for excuses for her behaviour and yes she’s always trying to blame me, for the position were in.

It’s tough because I can’t throw anything back at her. I’m doing my best to stay strong but today I found that all I wanted to do was sleep (not a good sign) I’ll make more of an effort tomorrow.

Lan

[Lanzo]

Dear All,

Needs some help to pick the bones out of this one so bear with me if I ramble a bit.

This evening I initiated a discussion with W on finances and change over of household bills etc. and she says that before we do that I need to decide what I am doing. Have I just moved out temporally if so hang on, or have I left her permanently if this is the case then lets continue the discussion?

I told her I moved out for a period of separation and calm so we could eventually talk. She said she hadn’t asked me to move out, I was the one who took that decision. Also on my return she would have expected me to come back and make some demands saying I want this to happen or I want that to happen.

I said I thought that from our last conversation she had decided she wanted a divorce. She said she only wanted a divorce because I put a list in front of her stating what was required for a divorce and she felt that I was forcing her into a decision. I told her any decision should be a joint one, (first item on the list) which is why I wanted us to talk

W now says she wants to know what my decision is, do I want a divorce or not . I told her I will agree to whatever she wants ( just like my book says) but she says just agreeing with her is not good enough. She wants to know what my decision would have been if she had ignored the note and said nothing. (She also told me to stop agreeing with her).

She stated that originally she had never wanted a divorce, but now wants to be separated and divorced eventually, saying the final straws were me calling her a “hoe” and confronting her about OM whom she denies any new affair with. She says she believes this type of confrontation would be a permanent feature of any future we may have and she wasn’t willing to live with it.

I told her I hadn’t made any decision on what I wanted, and I am still thinking what to do. I told her I would move back at some stage if she agreed to it. She told me the she wasn’t going to ask me to move back as I took the decision to move out, but as I was still paying the bills I could freely move back when I wanted to and she couldn’t stop me.

So at a swoop I feel W has turned 2 decisions round on to me, do we divorce (I think unlikely)or do I move back (seemingly on her terms).

She's either very good at this game or getting very good advise.

Anyone have a different take ? What should I do for my best interest ?

[Lanzo]

I have been out of the house for just over a month now and I’ve decided to return soon, I feel like the prisoner who’s been on the run and time has finally caught up with him.

I had a reasonable chat with W today which she instigated when I returned to help clear daughters bedroom. She asked me what had I decided in my time away, I told her I hadn’t made any decision. She said she thought that was strange as she was still expecting some sort of decision from me. She then mentioned our last conversation when also we talked about letting go of each other. She said she had thought some more and the only way for her to fully let go of me was to divorce, sell the house and we go our separate ways. I just agreed with her.

She said she didn’t think she could get a mortgage for a new house as easy as I could but she had made an appointment to see her bank manager to see what they could do for her. She asked where I was expecting to sleep when I moved back, I said I’d stay in the box room (which she uses as her dressing room) or get a camp bed, as daughters bedroom is being decorated for her birthday and she is now old enough to expect to have her own room.

We agreed that we would have to co exist in the same house on friendly terms, W said getting ourselves straight, selling the house and divorcing could take up to 2 years as houses were not selling well.

So today there was no begging or pleading from me, no trying to argue against what W was saying, I listened to her, empathised and agreed. From her part there was no hostility in return. But really I just wanted to scream at her are you mad !!!, do you realise what you are doing !!, do you realise what you are about to throw away!!, but I can’t.

In-laws came round this afternoon, W told them that we were splititng up and it was all her own fault and not to blame me. In-Laws were very, very upset and left in a hurry.

[FONT=Verdana]At the moment I feel bitterly disappointed at the course we are about to take, but part of me hopes, just hopes that things can take a change for the better.

Lan

[Lanzo]

Hello all,

I‘ve been lurking around on this forum again but not really posting. I’ve been on other forums too and getting some good advice there , so I think I have plenty of tools to move forward with.

I moved out and stayed with my sister for 2 months, but I’m back home now. This initially generated a lot of anger from my W but things have calmed down now.

So not much happening here, all seems relatively calm. No real drama I can't handle, no talk about the relationship, marriage or Divorce. The bottom line is there is no real talk to speak of as W just ignores me. I continue to be upbeat, and act "as if" and I'm working on my getting a life. At the moment it consists of me smartening myself up and going out for an evening. but I think it needs more work and ideas.

W seems to be picking at me less (or is it my imagination).

"Nice W" fleetingly appears, but in the main she tries to keep herself angry with me, these days I have a better understanding of things so I don’t get upset or worried.

The OM is still in the background (I think) but I don’t worry and I don’t snoop I just focus on me and daughter.

W set a target of selling the house next year and us going our separate ways, well we’ll see if that happens.

So that’s a brief overview on my situation, I have come to terms with what is going on so I continue to move forward slowly.

Lan

[Anne22]

Hi Lan

Have been reading your posts - I am so sorry you have been living this hell, it must be such a strain on you both living under one roof but living separately. Also to have your wife ignoring you!

I am glad for you that life is calm - this certainly helps matters especially when your daughter is there.

Thankfully my h worked away alot and near the end he had lots of space to do just what he wanted - which was living his double life with his mistress - but at least it wasnt flaunted infront of my eyes and the kids were not ever party to awful arguing!

I understand your financial situation stops you living any other way at the moment but just wanted to wish you luck and hope that you can sell the house quickly so you can both move on with your lives.

Take care - thining of you.

Love Anne22 xx

[Lanzo]

Hi Anne,

Yes my situation at home is not ideal, but I cope, and I cope due to the fact that my mind set is that of I don’t need my wife or the marriage, I want them, but I don’t need them. Now that I have a better understanding of things I work on making myself happy, I can normally recognise the potential flash points and I either avoid them or diffuse them. So as I said before the drama around the house is a lot less.

So I move forward slowly, as I mentioned before W has this plan to sell the house next year, but I ask myself why wait ? Anyway we’ll see if she follows this plan through or if indeed I reach a point where I finally say enough is enough.

Lan

[Anne22]

Hi Lan,

Good luck - the only problem with selling a house at this time of year would be that there are not too many people around buying and not much else on the market to buy!!!

I am in a similar situation but my h is in a flat nearby. We are lucky he earns enough to do this! My h has wanted me to put our house on the market as soon as he left but I am waiting until the New Year. I recon he had a flat unbeknown to me for sometime before I asked him to leave which of course he was using with his Mistress so he can continue to live in the hovel while the kids and I enjoy our home!

I am glad you have your 'head sorted out' it took me a while before I was able to do that but life is much easier now I know there is 'no back'!!!! Hard to call it a day though - still have wobbly moments when I wish all just a bad nightmare!

Take care

Love Anne22 xx

[aqua]

Billyboy

How are things going with you?

aqua

[aqua]

Hi there billboy

I'm so sorry to hear life isn't so good.

It sounds like your 'flogging a dead horse', so to speak!

Why can't your wife acknowledge the efforts you're making or even meet you half way?
Has she made up her mind already?
Why does she want to 'punish' you? as it sounds as though she is really making you suffer and in some warped way enjoying it!!

Sorry, sounds like an interrogation, mate!


Ummm, it sounds like she taking you to the brink to crack you ,and make you do something about the situation. That will make you the bad boy!!! I think that's the cowards way out. I might be wrong on that ,but it just occured to me as a possible reason.

I was dreading Christmas but I've booked us up solid for Christmas and New Year - keeping busy is the best thing for me. I'm actually looking forward to it.

Take care billyboy, and you know where we are if the going gets tough.

aqua x

[Lanzo]

Hi Billyboy,

I’m sorry things are still very bad for you at the moment, and I hope you can change things but the outlook doesn’t look good. However you can move forward by making a major investment in yourself by GAL (getting a life) please don’t take this the wrong way.

I maybe wrong but if you think about the changes you are making now they are all about trying to illicit a response from you wife or getting her to change and as you can see it isn’t working. The GAL principle is all about making changes for you and making you feel good. If W thinks these changes are good and attractive the she will respond to you. If not it will make you attractive to others if the worst happens and you have to move on to the next phase of you life. The other thing you need to do is detach from you wife. I don’t mean walk out on her. I mean stop thinking about her, stop thinking about what she is doing. Stop thinking about doing thinks to make her happy. Invest your time and energy in you and your daughter.

I know you have got the Divorce Buster books and you have applied some of the techniques, but if you haven’t done so all ready re read the book, and if you need to take it as your bible. I’ve been doing this and I am see small changes but at the moment they are only baby steps so I have to be patient like you will need to be

Take care and don’t give up.


Lan

PS I will forgive you and Aqua for parking on my doorstep:)

[aqua]

Hi Lanzo

I like the acronym GAL? Is this one of your own or did it come from a book? I don't read any of the self help books myself, for various reasons, which I won't bore you with.

I'm a great believe in GAL - the timing of it depends on each indivdual person, I think.

I did GAL and things are going well. It hasn't made me more attractive to my husband, but I do avoid him at all costs, so no wonder. But it has made me feel better about myself. So it has to be worth it.

Take care

aqua - still sitting on your doorstep Lanzo.

[Lanzo]

Hi Aqua,

GAL comes from the Divorce busting books which are all about improving "You", and focusing on you. If you manage to improve you, then the rest will follow. Also as a result of all of this if you manage to save you marriage or relationship then that is the added bonus.

I picked up the DB site & Books from David H who use to post on my “doorstep”, and to be honest without it I would have cracked up months ago.

The big thing I learnt was to stop focusing on my wife and what she was doing and to detach myself from her. It was one of the hardest things to do but slowly I am seeing results. For instance this evening she was talking about buying up cheap Halloween costumes now, so that we can use them for next year to make sure we have a better Halloween, then she had to stop herself and say, “Err… that is if were still together next year”.

Anyway Billyboy has these books so he is familiar with the principles and I was just encouraging him use the them and don’t give up on his situation, but the main thing was to focus on him and his daughter.


Lan

[aqua]

Hi Lanzo

Thanks for your response. Seems that I've already been doing what you described from the book.
I have avoided my husband since May - tricky when you have children - so he won't really have seen the new improved 'me' and he's not going to get the chance.

For me, my husband doesn't get a second chance. I'm happy with my life as it is.

Billyboy sounds like he needs a lot of support at the moment. I hope he's ok. Holla if you need us, Billy!

Can I stay on your doorstep a while longer, please?

aqua

[Lanzo]

Hi Billyboy.

If I were you I’d forget the song and the lyrics, they’re all part of the drama which surrounds your wife. If you keep reacting to the drama she’ll lead you a merry dance. The more interesting thing for me is that your wife says she doesn’t know what she wants. That’s good because it means that you are still in the running. But the problem you have is that you don’t know what to give her. Two don’t knows in a marriage leads to big problems.

Put this picture into you head. Your wife is shouting at you “Go away !!”, but over her head is an invisible sign which says “But I want you” below that in bracket are the words (to make me want you). I think that pretty much sums up your situation.

I approached this situation by emotionally detaching from my wife and marriage, I moved out for 2 months, it wasn’t easy but I did it. I’ve moved back now and the relationship is much different. Not great but I can see tiny seeds of improvement. Now I’m not saying you need to move out, but you do need to detach emotionally from the marriage that you had because that’s gone. What you do need to do is GAL and reinvent a new dapper, interesting, Billyboy. Believe me if other people find you interesting you wife sure as hell will.

So I’m going to shout this “STOP FOCUSING YOUR WIFE AND FOCUS ON YOU”. Let her be, let her go. (I hope that didn’t hurt).

If it makes you feel better part of my GAL is a sham. Every Friday I sh*t, shower, shave, dress up and go out. I’ve got no money or anywhere particular to go, but I go out and have this in my routine of doing something different to what I did before I moved out. I’m trying the best I can to shape a new me

I am surviving at home, only just but I’m surviving and I’ve got a long way to go but in the end I know I will be ok (with or without my wife).

Take care for now



Lan