What do I do

[tinkerbell1075]

My boyfriend of 3 years broke up with me. He moved out 6 days ago. I admit we had some trust issues (I found evidence to make me suspicious of infidelity and therefore I kept checking up on him) but nothing I didn't think we couldn't work out Last week after an argument about him chatting with a woman he met online and giving them his mobile # (she called him while I was in the room which is how I found out about her) he said that he was "done". He was tired of the fact that I am so emotional he couldn't handle it and couldn't take me checking up on him all the time. He said like he was always "on guard" and because of this he still loves me but is not in love with me anymore.

He says the only possible way of salvaging anything would be to start at "square 1" and see how it goes from there. In other words, start the phases of the relationship all over again. Start again as "casual dating" with no expectations or commitments. He said if that we are to start over he thinks we can call it dating but that he doesn't consider me his girlfriend anymore.

A part of me believes that he is only doing this because he feels guilty about hurting me and doesn't want to devastate me further by cutting me off completely. And the no expectations/commitment part frees him up to explore other women without feeling accountable to any one person.

Friends and family say to forget this "start over" stuff and just walk away before I get hurt further when he doesn't make the effort to work on things but I can't just walk away. I love him with every ounce of my being and don't want to let him go. He is the only person I have been with that I have ever considered marrying and up until a few weeks I thought that we actually might. Am I stupid to stick around and humiliate myself by fighting for someone who is isn't in love with me anymore? It just hurts too much. The people around me mean well and only want whats best for me, but they don't know how I am feeling right now. I don't want to live life without him. He was in love with me once. Is it possibe for him to fall in love with me again. He says he still loves me just not "in love" anymore. The thought of him forming a life with and being with someone else tears my heart in two.

[jo71]

About starting over with dating....I BEGGED my h (before our seperation) to "date" me. Now looking back, I KICK MYSELF for the things I said to him..."Just date me too, and give me as much opportunity to be loved again by you as you are giving THEM". This was of course in utter desperation...AND before I knew that there actually WAS another woman. I kind of thought he just wanted to think about dating other women...when now, in hindsight, I know he already had someone else waiting. Now that I KNOW better, I am SOOO glad he didn't take me up on this offer to "date" me, along with his o/w. Boy-oh-boy...I feel like my self-esteem is already damaged since he left me, but can you imagine had I dated him while knowing he was dating o/w too?? That would have been a DISASTER to my self-esteen.

Nope Tinkerbell...hold you head high and tell him either he tries to work it out with you or he's free to date anyone ELSE he wants...you're not into sharing him.

Jo

[tinkerbell1075]

I am almost willing to share him if it means keeping him in my life and connected. I know that he will never be out completely. As long as I email/IM I know he will always respond. He is not the type to block people/ignore them. But I don't want him in my life as a chat buddy.

We didn't see each other for 5 months when he was overseas and then he came back and we were living together/seeing each other every day. I know that he was feeling crowded etc...especially since he broke his leg last month and has been stuck at home for the most part since he can't drive/work (he is military and they put him on sick leave because he can't do the physical) A lot of the time I spent most nights at home with him because I felt guilty about leaving him home alone not being able to get around very well (he had surgery on his leg as well). He said one of the reasons he feels the way he does is because I am not independant in going out with friends alot and he feels responsible for my having a good time/happiness/etc... because I seem so dependent on him.

The day of our big falling out I know I provoked him. He's not one for talking about feelings for any period of time and after about an hour of me talking about my feelings he just wanted me to leave him alone. So I did....for about an hour...and then I came back and was in his face again. I did that about 3 or 4 times that day and I knew I pushed him over the edge. I know that when we argue he likes to retreat and be alone and not talk yet I kept forcing him too.

I did ALOT for him the past 3 years. I lent him money when he needed it, I took care of all his affairs and his pets while he was gone overseas ( he was gone twice..once for 7 months and then home for 3 and then again for 5 months) even though he knew it hurt me that he chose to leave to work away from home. When he went into the hospital for surgery, I was the one who was there everyday after work to keep him company when even his best friend didn't visit. When he came home, I cooked and took meals to him and emptied his urinal since he couldn't make it up or down to the kitchen/bathroom very easily. He is even still in the military because of me because when he left to work on the cruise ship he didn't take a proper leave of absence and they were going to charge him with going AWOL until I took care of it. I didn't do it because I felt I had to. I did all this because I LOVE HIM and it made me happy to do it.

I keep telling myself that if I am ok with him moving out and just give him the space he needs to not feel smothered/stifled/frustrated then he will stop resenting me and will start to miss me and all the things I did for him. That living with a buddy, he will come to appreciate everything I did (like making him tea and doing his laundry) and realize what is giving up. Am I wrong to think this way?

[jo71]

Well not to minimize your relationship, but since you aren't married, it does make it a little less complicated to do the separation for a while. I truly believe though, that you would regret *sharing* him if that's what it came to. Think about how you would feel if he took a call from another woman when he was with you. Or anytime he didn't answer your call...what would your first thought be? Yep...the o/w. You'd constantly be comparing yourself to her in every single way...even if you didn't know who she was or if she even existed...you'd still be wondering incessantly.

Right now you most definately need to back off. Unfortunately, it's not all the nice things we do for them, or have done for them, that makes them want us or not. It's just what we DO for them...by that, I mean that deep inside feeling of longing and desire. Right now he doesn't have it for you because it sounds like you don't give him a chance to. You are too available. Go out with friends...often. Find some things that YOU enjoy and do them by yourself. Become YOU as an individual...not as a couple with him. I think that if there is any love for you that he still has, this is the only way he is going to find it. Moving out may be what he needs to do. He might date o/w...but I wouldn't tell him I'm ok with that. If he does, he does...but I wouldn't suggest that to him! I've heard it said that you can't fight another woman. It's very true...they have too much power. Unless our partners make the choice, there's nothing WE can do about it.

Jo

[callow]

Tinkerbell

You need to ask yourself why you would consider being treated like the scraps on his table.

He has probably met this woman and would like to take things further. However, as he is not man enough to totally break things off with you. He is keeping you dangling on a string, just in case it doesn't work out and then he will come back to you. This will only be until someone else comes along. Then you will tossed aside again.

You need to find the things he gives you within yourself -love, self esteem. I know this is difficult and I struggle with it every day. When you love yourself enough you will find a partner who will love and respect you.

All the best, be strong.

Sally

[Hopeful0788]

Dave, where are you with the links??? I printed everything and don't have the links anymore.

But, Tinkerbell, I really believe a part of your love for him is because you have been taking care of him. You sound a little codependent to me, especially the way you want to argue or talk and he doesn't, the way you stay home and would be willing to share him....

I would do a good search for codependence and read some things on that as well as emotional detachment. Let him go and keep in contact with him while you are working on yourself and feeling better. If it is meant to be, he will come back. If it is not, then you will be learning about yourself and finding out who you are without him and then will be more ready for a future relationship that is mutually loving for both partners.

I hope the best for you and keep in mind what Jo has said. Your self esteem sounds a little low now, sharing will only ruin it for good.

[jo71]

Dave, where are you with the links??? I printed everything and don't have the links anymore.

Here is one of David's links:
More on "doing a 180"
http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

I think he said he was going away for a few days. I look forward to having him back too!

Jo

[tinkerbell1075]

Thanks for the link...

Its now Friday afternoon and I still have not heard from Mike. On Sunday he was talking of maybe coming in a "couple days" to pick up more of his stuff. When I suggested we maybe do something on the weekend if we are going to "date" and start over he said "maybe, talk later in the week". Well the weekend is here and now I am wondering if he was just putting me off because he was just too afraid to outright say No. Its been 9 days since he moved out and I don't know if I'm pushing things too soon. 9 days seems like an eternity for the person left behind but for a man who needs his space, etc...it might not be. I was speaking with his stepmom and she said to pass along the message to him that its his grandmothers bday and it would be nice if he gave her a call. So I saw him online and told him. I didn't mention anything about getting together or our relationship. All I said was "Melody says its your grandma's bday today and I know she would really like it if you gave a call". He didnt' IM back. I don't know if thats because its about the time that he gets ready for work and he is not at his computer (although I know he was there just minutes before as his dad says he was chatting with him) or if he is avoiding me. I am being obsessive, I know. But as a woman who has just been left, I am confused, hurt, unresolved, etc....and every minute that goes by I don't hear from him the feelings get worse. But I don't want to initiate contact about our situation. I want him to wonder why and come to me first.

[Mike56]

In David's absence (on holiday iirc) here's my compilation of his various links on co-dependency, narcissism and detachment. Sorry I've not collated or indexed them.

Mike.



http://www.50connect.co.uk/index.asp?main=http%3A//www.50connect.co.uk/50c/articlepages/relationships_index.asp%3Fsc%3Dromancestories%26aI D%3D12527

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html

http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm

http://karenscoda.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-characteristics.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/1804

http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/faq_index.html

http://survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

http://survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/divorce/no_contact.asp

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

http://joy2meu.com/codependency1.html

[tinkerbell1075]

Well I just spoke with Mike. We are going for supper and a movie tonight. Its been exactly 2 weeks since we broke up and 11 days since he moved out. He still says we can try and see how it goes, so he hasn't changed his mind about that (not that hes admitting to me anyway) This is the first time we've spoken (outside of 1 IM conversation) and the first time seeing each other since we decided to start over again. Well, since he decided, it wasn't really my choice. I want things to be the way they used to when I thought he still really loved me but it can't be. I'm kind of nervous about seeing him. How do I act? Do I hug him, kiss him or just keep my distance? He said before that if we're starting at square 1 again then I guess we are "dating" but not calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend anymore. So its kind of awkward I guess. People who are "dating" still hug and kiss just no real commitment and taking things slow so I don't really know whats appropriate and whats pushing the boundaries, what he feels is ok and what he in uncomfortable with. Its going to be real hard not to fall back into old patterns. Probably no hand holding, but then again we didn't do that much before anyway. I'm 5'3" and he is 6'8" so we don't walk real well side by side.

When we dated the first time but didn't live together yet he would always come in after we went out. Sometimes stayed the night, sometimes didn't. I guess its probably moving too fast to ask him if he wants to come in today. He would probably decline anyway and if I ask and he does decline I would probably just end up feeling hurt and rejected. I know that to give this an honest shot at working then we just have to take it REAL slow and not talk about what went wrong etc.... This is us actually trying to start over so talking about our OLD relationship probably wouldn't be a good start. However, patience is not my best virtue especially since only 2 weeks ago we were used to talking about certain things, touching each other freely etc....Its going to be real hard not falling back into old patterns.

[tinkerbell1075]

I saw Mike on Sunday for the first time after he moved out 2 weeks ago. I played it cool. I didn't talk about our relationship at all. Just about general stuff, what we've been up to the last 2 weeks etc.etc..Dinner and movie went fine. He drove me home. I had no intention of kissing or hugging him goodnight. I was reaching behind me to retrieve my "doggy bag" from the backseat and all of a sudden he started kissing me. And it wasn't like a "I just want sex kiss". I can't even remember the last time that he was so gentle and loving and just romantic with me. It actually had feeling behind it. So despite my better judgement he came inside. We watched television for a bit and after about 45 minutes or so he started again. And yes, we did have sex. But it was different than it used to be. I actually felt that he wasn't just doing it for the sex. The whole feeling was that he loved me. He didn't stay the night which was fine. He told me he loved me before he left. :o

So for 3 days afterward I didn't hear from him. So I called him tonight to chat. We talked for about 5-10 minutes but the connection was kind of bad. I heard a few seconds of dead air and I thought I had lost the call as we were on our cellphones. So I said "hello?" to see if he was still there and then all of a sudden he yelled at me saying "I'm busy, I almost got into a f*ucking accident"and then he hung up on me. I called him back about an hour later after he had a chance to cool down and I told him I didn't appreciate being yelled and sworn at when I didn't even do anything. He said he told me he was busy driving and couldn't talk but then I kept on chatting and he lost his temper because I wouldn't listen. Thats not what happened. I told him all I heard was dead air and that if he had said he was driving I did not hear it. All I know is that one moment we were chatting and then the next he was cursing at me. I heard him swear again and I asked him what was wrong and he said he was at a gas station and his truck wouldn't start. He said "I gotta go" and then he hung up on me again. He hasn't called back to sorry for hanging up on me or yelling at me or anything.:mad:

Right before he supposedly told me he was "busy driving" I had asked him if he wanted to get together and do something later this week. How convenient that we chatted for 10 minutes but its not until after I mention getting together that he then decides to tell me he's busy driving and can't talk. I'm wondering if that was just his way of avoiding the question. Earlier in the conversation I mentioned to him that its my dads bday next week and if he would like to join us for dinner as he has always come out for family dinners in the past. He said "I'll say yes for now but I'll let you know if something comes up". Is that supposed to mean Yes but only if no better offers come in?

I don't understand how one person can be so loving toward you one day as if they really do want to work things out and then the next day they act so hostile like they can't stand the fact that you're even alive and I didn't even do anything. He's running hot and cold and its not like I wasn't confused in the first place but this makes it 10X worse. Do his mood swings mean he is conflicted in his feelings towards me too or should I just chalk to his having a bad day? He didn't sound like he was in a bad mood until I mentioned us getting together. Is this his way of saying that I'm pushing too hard and he still needs his space?:confused:

I'm sorry this is so long. Its nice just to be able to get everything out. I don't want to talk to family because they will form opinions about him and our relationship and I don't want them to do that because our relationship is not completely over and family is just too close (and too biased). I write in a journal ALOT just to get frustrations out when I feel I need to but its nice to be able to convey what I feel to other people who have gone through the same thing and much worse

[David H]

I don't understand how one person can be so loving toward you one day as if they really do want to work things out and then the next day they act so hostile like they can't stand the fact that you're even alive and I didn't even do anything. He's running hot and cold and its not like I wasn't confused in the first place but this makes it 10X worse. Do his mood swings mean he is conflicted in his feelings towards me too or should I just chalk to his having a bad day?

Hi Tinkerbell

You are describing the classic codependent-counterdependent "dance". Blowing Hot or Cold. Exactly how it was with my (ex)G/F of 18 years. And I know just how frustating it was.

"The way the dynamic in a dysfunctional relationship works is in a "come here" - "go away" cycle. When one person is available the other tends to pull away. If the first person becomes unavailable the other comes back and pleads to be let back in. When the first becomes available again then the other eventually starts pulling away again. It happens because our relationship with self is not healed. As long as I do not love myself then there must be something wrong with someone who loves me - and if someone doesn't love me than I have to prove I am worthy by winning that person back."
http://joy2meu.com/codependent4.htm

I am a codependent (giver or caretaker) in my relationships and I now realise what problems this causes in my relationships as codependents are dysfunctional emotionally and invariably attract other codependents as partners who adopt the role of counterdependents (takers). Although you would think this was an ideal situation, this invariably leads to an emotionally abusive and unsatisfying relationship.

Codependency:
http://www.50connect.co.uk/50c/romancestories.asp?article=12527

"Relationships heal when individuals heal. When each partner does their Inner Bonding work, their relationship system heals. When each person learns to take full personal responsibility for his or her own feelings of pain and joy, they stop pulling on each other and blaming each other. When each person learns to fill themselves with love and share that love with each other, instead of always trying to get love, the relationship heals."

This is a deep-rooted fear of abandonment and self-esteem issue and you will have to heal yourself before you can heal your relationships. Until you heal yourself and are able to have a normal interdependent relationship, every relationship you have will be dysfunctional. It is clear from your posts in this thread that you have very low self-esteem and this will always attact the wrong kind of person to you and you will always be treated as a doormat by your partners because you demand nothing more than that...

This is something I have just learned after 2 failed LTR's spanning 30 years. I am now 53 and in therapy to address my codependency issues (which are based upon being abandoned by my mother when I was 4 years old and subsequent childhood emotional abuse).

Please don't waste your relationship life like I have!

Learn to love yourself:

"Real love is based in a universal truth that NO ONE can love you, respect you, cherish, or adore you at a level greater than you do these things for yourself. That the amount that you do love, respect, cherish and adore yourself is exactly the level that another will love, respect, cherish and adore you."
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t113131/
http://www.4therapy.com/consumer/life_topics/article/6713/489/Learning+To+Love+Yourself

"The best relationships are made of wanting to be with the other person, but not needing to be. I think that goes for married relationships, too."
http://joy2meu.com/codependency1.html
http://joy2meu.com/codependent3.htm
http://karenscoda.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-characteristics.html

Many codependents are mutually attracted to narcissists...
More on Narcissists:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/FAQ/1804
http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/faq_index.html

David