Porn Forgiveness

[marine03]

Well, about 4 months ago me and my wife got into a serious argument that I don't remember but it was so serious that I was convinced that our marriage was over. No turning back. So I told her all my secrets that I was embarassed about. The main thing I told her that during our entire relationship that I have jacked off to porn. Not every day but probably 3-4 times per month. In my eyes being a man and all I didnt see a big deal about it. I have always been embarassed about this act I have been doing since I was 12, now I am 21.I told her that I have watched 100's of different porn since I was 12 and its not that I sit there and look at porn and think to myself, man I wish I could bang her or man I wish she was my wife. No its not like that all.To tell you the truth I don't know why I do it I just do. My wife is also a very angry person most of the time and I try so hard to please her but it seems as though she has hated me from the get go. But I don't think thats why I watch porn.
Anyways to make a long story short, here we are 4 months later and everyday I feel like im getting punished because of it. She always throws it up in my face like Im not ashamed of it. When we are out in public and a semi attractive woman is in our general vicinty her first comment is hey baby look its porn. Or something to that nature. I don't even like going out in public with her any more.Now im to the point where I thinking ,how many times do I have to say im sorry. She says that she feels like I cheated on her. I dunno. I just wish she wouldnt let this ruin our marriage. The good news is that ever since that day 4 months ago I no longer watch porn. Am I wrong for hopeing that she would forgive me or did I just mess up this bad that we are going to spend the next 60 years arguing over this porn issue? please reply thank you

[Raymond]

You don't have to want to marry a porn image or want intercourse with it for it to affect you. You have been joining yourself to those images (and these are real people) for years in the sexual area. That's got to affect your sexual relationship and your marriage. The spirit behind that lust has no intention of being faithful to one person.

Well done for stopping it. It will take longer for the images to fade and for you to respect women. If you are changing she will begin to see it slowly. Remember she is recovering too from the feeling of being betrayed and you being sexually unfaithful.

Raymond

[marie]

I need advice-i have caught my husband watching and masturbating to porn every night when i go to bed.This has continued for a year,when i confort him he gets very aggressive and tells me that i am mad and i should leave.We have 3 young kids and i have spent 12 years trying to please him,i even do things in the bedroom i find repulsive for him but now i am wondering should i call time in this marriage?i have never joined a forum before.

[mutiny08]

Marie:
If he is getting enough "lovin" with you, then i dont see why he would need it EVERY night. I can understand if it was occasionally (especially if there wasnt as much sex in the relationship as he would like). Although, it sounds to me like you are trying to satisfy him the best you can in the bedroom. I am of the opinion, however, that doing things that you dont like (especially if you find it (as you put it), repulsive) is never a good idea. I don't know what these things might be that you speak of, but if you dont like it, you can never really be in to it. Perhaps he knows this and doesnt like that. Perhaps im wrong, but its something to consider.

Also, i wonder about how you are going about confronting him. Getting angry will never work. You have to try and be really calm and express your feelings to him in a way that he can understand and have the highest probability of listening to. If you already approach him calmly about it, then, to be honest, give him a smack over the head and pull his finger out (just kidding... perhaps that isnt the best idea).

If at the end of the day he wont listen to you and disregards your feelings, tell him that you feel as if you need to be separated from him and see what he says.

That would be my advise.

I hope everything goes well. Keep posting :)

[Raymond]

Two very good posts Bellabrave. I sense a searching heart in you for what is good and right and you are making a lot of sense. I have not thought about porn being degarading to women before but that's just another thing that makes it wrong. Another thing you are touching on between the lines whether you realise it or not is it is like having sex without bothering about relationship. It doesn't require love, commitment, relationship etc. In fact it is just a fantasy, but the damage it does is real in arousing the sexual urge on it's own isolated out of place instead of what it was designed for, part of a loving relationship between male and female.

I think if you have a good relationship with your partner you know it's wrong straight away if you happen to come accross it, to say nothing of one's conscience. You are right, men will lose out and not experience the full intimacy of a loving relationship because of it which relationship I am convinced it damages.

Raymond

[mutiny08]

well, well bella. you finally broke. after all the crap you spoke making yourself look informed and knowledgeable, i knew you couldnt keep your personal emotions out of it. you tried to tell me otherwise, but i knew you would explode eventually, and here it is. you are too connected to the topic because of your own problems with it. when counseling someone (which is what we are doing, in a sense), you never, i repeat, NEVER bring your own personal feelings to the table. you proved my point that i made in my other post PERFECTLY. i dont think it wise that you try to council other people on whether or not they have self esteem issues when it clearly seems as though you have this very problem. the fact that you resorted to try defaming me proves that you cannot bring useful discussion to this topic and act like an adult. This is the same behavior we see in children when they know they are beat, and reply with something like "well.... your an idiot!".

think about what you have just posted. you clearly (and i say clearly, because i showed your response to 6 other people (without telling them my opinion), and they came to the same conclusion that i did) showed that you yourself has self esteem issues. while you sit on your high horse telling people whats wrong with themselves, and that they should "work on themselves" etc etc, you fail to take your own advice.

I wanted you to keep discussing the topic in the other thread for a few reasons. One reason was, as i said in there, that i wished to learn another opinion and weigh it against my own. Another, believe it or not, was that i knew this would happen, and i wanted you to witness it. After "arguing" with people for a long time, i have come to learn certain psychological tendencies. One of these is that following someone "not wanting to discuss it anymore", if you can keep them going, you will generally hit the root of a problem. By saying that they do not wish to discuss something anymore means one of two things (in my experience): They are bored with the conversation (most likely due to either them just giving up or there being a lull in argumentative points), OR they can feel themselves getting emotional (which is what i concluded for you from the tone of your writing). Emotions (especially in a debate/argument/discussion) tell a lot about a person.

Instead of trying to scare marie into believing what you do by implying her man is a w--k-r (which, in common usage is not meant to be taken literally but as an insult) if they dont conform to your beliefs, why not give your reasons for your opinion (including the evidence which you provided, which was the only useful thing you posted), and let her make her own decision.

Marie, find what you think is right and go with it. Trust yourself and do what you think is best. I wish you luck.

Bella, think about what i posted regarding your reaction. You dont have to agree, but think about it.

Take care all :)

[mutiny08]

you are quite the hypocrite. you say that i am unqualified to give my opinion based on what i have observed, yet you (who is after all, just an average person like me), feel you are qualified enough to do the same to me... how interesting. My partner read your response to my post and laughed at it. LAUGHED.

you are in denial. admitting you have a problem is the first step to overcoming it. you should know this since you are a trained professional in the counselling field (LOL). i am sick of your emotionally controlled arguments. they bare no weight because they are derived from your own problems. you could put together quite the convincing argument if u could get past this issue and used your resources (the studies which you claim to have undertaken) more effectively.

I will admit that the evidence you provided was substantial. I did look at it and I even discussed it with my partner. My partner and I did, however, find some holes in it (which is what happens with psychological tests because there are too many variables). Overall, I was quite impressed that you sited a source, but I would like more.

You think you are without issues, but may I point out that I have just discovered that you have gone on almost every pornography based thread where I have posted, only to discredit and defame me. Look at it from an outsiders perspective or if I had done that to you. You would go on to tell me that I have some serious emotional issues regarding control and self esteem. You would also go on to tell me that I am acting like a child, pretty much stalking you from thread to thread and generally should be unwelcome here.

You and I are different. I can listen to someone’s point of view and take it on board even if I do not believe it. You, however, cannot. You are so unwilling to consider that perhaps people are different than you and that that’s just how it is. Your opinion cant always be the right one.

I implore you to print out the three threads (or more that I haven’t noticed) in which you and I are discussing this topic and take them to your counsellor to see what he/she says. I am not saying that they will take my side, but I am interested to see what they say.

[copycat]

Hi all, I'm new to thread posting, and I hope I can offer my opinions in a constructive way and I also hope you can offer yours to me :)

But first of all, Bellabrave, in reference to your suggestion that people shouldn't even read what Mutiny writes, I think that since I AM MUTINY'S PARTNER, I am the best to judge whether what he writes is worth reading - considering that his thread and posts are in relation to our relationship and our troubles (btw, I'm not biased because I do hate porn and even have problems accepting movies showing any breasts :/ )

Secondly, "your a master of psychology, one who always has to be
right RAOFL at the moment...you are really a classic...
an informed quasi psychologist"... i suppose YOU are an intelligent, informed master of psychology and that you have studied pyschology very long and hard? Obviously, you have not. You sound uneducated and emotional, it is too obvious that you have a personal problem with porn and you cant seem to leave your own feelings out of it.
My partner has taught me a lot about debating (he is really good at it), and one thing I know is that the second you get personally involved in an argument is the moment you lose because you become childish, unreasonable and your arguments become sloppy - which you yourself have demonstrated.

Now, Mutiny is not hateful towards women nor does he abuse them (i should know!) and it looks like you would benefit more from studying gender isssues in depth rather than him as you cannot even be in the same thread as a man who doesnt share your views without attacking him.

Before you even consider giving advice to a person, learn to leave your emotions out of it - it helps no-one, you will only drive the person you are "counselling" to be as irrational and hysterical as you are.
As I can see, you have stalked Mutiny form thread to thread trying to discredit him simply because he is a man who's beleifs differ to yours.

MY beleifs are different from my partners, but that just means we have to work it out. I'm sorry your relationship had difficult periods, as we all do, but that doesn't justify you venting your emotions on a man who is asking for advice on how to find a solution to a similar problem. Also I dont think it wise to go on misleading women into an angry fusion that stems from your problem.

I hate the fact that so many men enjoy watching porn or even use it as a means of releif, but I beleive that directing them to change their habits rather than continously punishish them for it is a better solution.

MARIE: If he is being aggressive with you, you first must find the cause of that - is it infact a stem from watching porn or perhaps another issue? Also, I hate to say, but it seems as though, by getting mad and telling you to leave it seems like he might actually be unhappy in the relationship and want out. And the fact that you do things in the bedroom you find repulsive just to keep him, well, bless you for soldiering on and trying to make him happy, but there is a limit. You really need to talk. Tell him you hate doing those things, how disgusting they make you feel, and if he doesn't care or gives you signs that suggest so, maybe it's time that you do leave. I don't want your relationship to go down the crapper, but seriosuly, if this man is treating you this way, he does not deserve having someone like you.

You seem like a kind and concerned woman, I think that if your husband is treating you the way you say, he is the loving man you married no more.

Best of luck, I hope things work out.

[Vicki]

I have been following this thread and have enjoyed the debate between Mutiny and bellabrave (although sometimes hostile). It's really sad that copycat, has had to come to the rescue to save her partner Mutiny. 2 against 1 is never going to be a fair contest. Enough said.

[APE]

I need advice-i have caught my husband watching and masturbating to porn every night when i go to bed.This has continued for a year,when i confort him he gets very aggressive and tells me that i am mad and i should leave.We have 3 young kids and i have spent 12 years trying to please him,i even do things in the bedroom i find repulsive for him but now i am wondering should i call time in this marriage?i have never joined a forum before.

It is all very well you two trying to score points off each other in a contest that will never be "won" by either side, but what about Marie?

My personal, completely subjective view of what Marie's post raises is the following:

1) You can still masturbate and have a healthy realtionship with another person but if he is getting agressive and abusive why do you want to stay with him? It is almost like he is demostrating it to you if you "catch" him every night!

2) What does he do to try and please you?

3) The only person who knows if you should leave is you: however, have you tried to look at what is happening/ has happended in your relationship to get you where you are now- are there issues that you aren't talking about or even recognising? How well do you talk and listen normally?

PS It isn't such a clever debating tool when condesending and then ignoring one's "opponnant's" arguements and evidence.

All the best

[Helen_uk]

I assumed Mutiny came to this forum to welcome other people's views on his current relationship problems however it seems what he really wants is to get into one of his ( self confessed ) arguments with an "opponent " and to enable his partner, the original subject of his post, to come on her and tell us all he's right.

Save your breath Bella.. there's only one opinion Mutiny is interested in.....

Helen

[mutiny08]

*sigh* you're off the mark by a long way helen.

i did come to this forum for that reason. and i DID take on peoples advice, whether or not you see it is a different story. the situation between my partner and i has improved quite well, including me deciding that i didnt need, nor want to watch porn in the future (although, i must say that it wasnt entirely because of what people said on this forum, but more because of what people said on themariagebed forums (even though i didnt even post there)).

Also, i didnt invite my partner to post what she did. She posted what she did because she felt she had something to say. I actually tried to talk her out of it to be honest :\
She didnt agree with what was being said and felt compelled to give it another angle (seeing as though, apart from me, she knew our situation best PLUS, she knows ME the best).

To be honest i am quite disappointed in what has come from people here. All most of you are interested in is ATTACKING and making unneeded comments (however sly they might be) about each other. I have also found a bit of a sexist bias... men here (generally) are spoken to much different than women. A man who might have impure thoughts about someone other than his wife will be no less than hounded by every woman here, yet if a woman has those same feelings, she gets people saying "i know what you mean", "he should accommodate to your needs better" and stuff like that. some people here arent interested in fixing or understanding (which is the most important thing, because you cant fix anything until you understand it) a problem, but instead just looking for a shoulder to cry on and tell them that everything is ok.

Oh, to add...
APE: i did post to marie, and originally to her only.
Vicki: Have you been following my thread? I have had like 5 people on my back and dealt with it, why shouldnt someone else be able to handle 2? Also, it gave credit to my "argument" because it proved that i wasnt talking cr*p out my a**. I didnt need her to come to my rescue, but she felt that she could input, so she did.

[Helen_uk]

Mutiny !

That's actually quite funny coming from you ! I have no interest in "attacking " you , my friend I don't know you . You've admitted quite freely that you enjoy ummm lets call it debate shall we ? However debate actually means allowing another person's opinion to differ from your own and getting your point across with reasoning.

Everyone brings to this forum their own personal experiences , none of us are qualified to do other than speak from those experiences, you then have a choice, listen or disregard and it does seem to me that unless you get the answer you want, you choose to disregard. Personally I couldn't give a rat's a** !

I support anyone, male or female who has been made to suffer by the actions of a spouse. Just in case you hadn't noticed there a fair few men on here in crisis too.... As for a shoulder to cry on, that's all some of us need.

I don't think you really have much to offer me, but I took the time to respond to your posts and as I'm not really up for an argument with someone I don't even know, I think I shall leave you to get on with it...

Helen

[mutiny08]

i never said they mean nothing.

*sigh*

as i said, you cant solve a problem without first understanding it, correct? (ill add here, if you disagree with that then God help you find a solution). All i ever wanted was to understand COMPLETELY. everyone settles for getting an idea of what someones opinion is. i want to know WHY they're opinion is so. i want reasons, evidence if there is any, precedent or SOMETHING. i dont want "just because" or some useless cr*p like that, because it doesnt help anyone.

Say what you will, both of you, but i am still right in saying that the way you handed disagreeing with me was childish bella. I can handle someone disagreeing with me, i really can. To be honest, i really dont give a rat's a** (as you put it helen) whether you agree with me or not. But i want to know your REASONS for being that way.

[mutiny08]

bella, you once again fail to understand what i have clearly writen.

i never said peoples feelings need to be backed up by SCIENCE, i said there needs to be a REASON. there is a reason for everything in this world, including emotion. Also, i am not quite sure that my partner "instinctively" felt porn was wrong, but learned it to be so. Also, there are many personal emotional feelings driving this feeling of hers which i will not divulge here.

As you say that i dont give a rats ass about your evidence, you obviously didnt read what i had written, and once again just went on pure ignorant anger to fuel your argument. i read the article, found it surprising, but also found some holes in it. the reason i asked for more evidence was in the hope that (at least for your arguments sake) it filled some of these holes. Of course, even if every hole but one was filled (and i say but one because that hole will remain until these tests are done on me) i still may choose to say that they dont prove anything about me personally. The reason i said there was holes in the first place was actually due to a discussion i had with my partner (who did incidentally study psychology during her schooling) who pointed out that there arent too many psychological tests that can prove much of anything. All they are is a bunch of general observations. Sure, these can be vast, detailed observations, but not FACT.

I didnt comment on your "fact" that over 90% of the women in porn were victims of childhood sexual abuse because you didnt provide evidence to back up your claim. for all i know, you could be blowin wind out your ass.

Also, calling me a wanker and then saying that its by my own admission (ha, ha) was quite low i would say. Just have the courage to come out and say it properly like an adult. The reason you work me up is because you remind me of the so many others i have spoken with on the internet who talk it big while hiding behind their computer monitor, but cower in real life.

And with my final comment, i hereby will come out and say that you are a complete idiot. You talk yourself up but dont even have the brain capacity to remember who you're talking to or what they've said in the past. I said, on more than one occasion, that i have watched my mother raise me (who was a complete little sh** when i was younger) and admired and respected her greatly for the struggle that it was. We were poor, without a father figure (my father died when i was 10) and without a home of our own. So dont you dare sit there and tell me that i have no idea of the work that goes into it. I will not sit here and take that crap. Because you say that i have no idea, you disrespect my mother by saying that i payed no attention to her efforts. You should be ashamed.

--

P.S. Just thought id add... you prove your worries about bettering me in this "debate" by trying to defame me. LOL. bring it on. you are by no means good at using your intelect to come to a clear conclusion because you cannot get past your stubbornness and emotions. You are exactly like my partners mother who yells and screams when she know theres nothing more to say on her part. Not even rational screaming, just random. I compare you to that. Now whos the joker, ROFL.
Try defame my character all you like, but people reading arent going to disregard the whole body of our discussion and take on board the last line of your attack on me and go "OH MY GOSH! WOW! SHE SAYS THIS GUYS A JOKER, SO HE MUST BE".

I look forward to hearing from you again (sort of). I know you will keep looking at this thread, even if you do not post. Just like how you said you wouldnt post anymore concerning this topic, and then you came to this thread to attack me and do exactly what you said you would not. lol.

Take care.

[calmfornow]

Ok,
Why don't we just give it a rest now? The whole point of this thread has been lost. I'm sure I'm not the only one whio thinks like this either.......................

[racer123]

Bela, if its any consolation not all men think like mutiny. I have also studied gender issues and know where your coming come. The article here is one I really related to as a man
http://www.xyonline.net/Just_a_john.shtml

[Raymond]

Good article Racer.

Raymond