Porn from a guys perspective

[Mark555]

Hello everyone. I've been lurking around for awhile, reading the side articles, and generally getting a feel for the place.

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But I find the education to be quite dry, so I spend most of my time reading things which have nothing to do with my formal education.

Adios (from BFE)

[wilks23]

From a women point of view I really do feel sorry for you. I know how all of this must make you feel. I myself have a husband that lookes at pron and has had two affair(just found out about the second one the other day). I still like to have sex, but as you get older you do need a little help. So I go to the store and get the help that I need, and my husband still goes out and have affairs, still looks a pron also. Said that he love me(what a laugh). My husband is also a very sick man who does not have a kidney and is on dialysis. He goes to dialysis three times a week. I do love him very much but can't keep living like this. I watch my weight and when I think that I need to I do something about it. No one has to tell me I do it on my own. So tell me why my husband is doing what he is doing?

[smackie9]

He has certainly lost his way. With his illness making him feel at a loss of some control of his life, and this in turn lowers his self esteem. Couples tend to go their own way as time goes on, being distracted with responsibilities, raising children, etc. We tend to lose sight of the relationship. His cheating is just an escape from his problems. It gives him a false sense of feeling like a man. It's only temporary, that's why he keeps doing it. What he is doing has nothing to do with the way you look or anything else to do with you. He needs help. Get him into counseling so he can face his issues with a professional. I hope this work for you.

[smackie9]

And as for you Mark555. You are one narrow minded dude. Yes women have had to put up with comments like yours for a long time now. Now I'm going to give you a woman's point of view on this matter. It has nothing to do with porn here.

You will never know what it's like to carry around a child in your belly for 9 months. The pain, the hormone imbalance, what it does to your body and how it can lower your self esteem because of the way you look and feel. On top of that, the expectations that it is put on us after giving birth. We are expected to raise the children, do the laundry, clean the house, do the grocery shopping, pay the bills, etc. And with all this be able to look like a fit sex goddess, be in sexy high heels, and be ready for a night of romping just for you and any given notice! Ha! Ya right.

If you want all this then you better be making some serious cash. Because in order for your wife to do all this, you will have to hire , a nanny,a maid, a cook, an accountant, a personal shopper, a personal fitness trainer, and get her a life time membership at a spa. Now how do you like them apples!:p

[Mum-of-Little-Ones]

I agree with Smackie9. I would like to add my advice to Mark555: if you cannot afford paying for all the things mentioned by Smackie9, you should fully share all the chores and responsibilities with your wife. If you do this, she may have enough time for herself to get into shape and start feeling happier and more confident. Make sure she can rest properly and make sure she knows she can always rely on you and doesn't have to worry constantly about things like finances, bills, childrens' future, health, etc. Then she might start getting into the right mood. I doubt you are doing enough to help her, because if you did, she would probably be acting differently and you would definitely have a lot less time and energy to think about strippers. Bearing and bringing up children is totally exhausting task and most of the load is on women. But a lot of men just doesn't want to notice the mountain of duties, responsibilities and worries that women have to deal with. Despite their wives are constantly exhausted and barely find time to sleep, the guys expect them to be full of passion and sex-crazy animals at night. They refuse to take in the fact that things have changed since they got married. They have a family now and have to face up to reality. Marriage is hard work and the purpose of it is not just to have sex but to have a family for most people.
Also, you expect your wife to adore you and flirt with you but are you doing your bit? Do you buy her flowers, take her out? Do you make her feel beautiful, desired? It seems from what you wrote that you blame her for everything and expect her to do all the effort. This is not a helpful attitude. Ask yourself - are you doing enough??

[smackie9]

Yes I agree with Mum-of little-ones. You seem to place blame on your wife for having these desires to watch strippers and porn. When it's really all you. You have a sickness and it has nothing to do with your wife not looking hot enough for you. I'm sure even if she did look good, it wouldn't be enough for your sexual desires. You wouldn't be satisfied enough and would keep up the old habit of going to see strippers and watching porn anyways. I hope you are getting the right kind of counseling for this kind of problem.

[Mum-of-Little-Ones]

Yeah, and don't forget that men also lose their physical fitness in time. How would you feel if you found out your wife doesn't find you attractive any more? Imagine she thinks you are not the same man she married. Maybe because you don't adore her like you used to and she feels she can't "connect" with you any more. Therefore, she feels like meeting up with a young fit male escort to satisfy her fantasies of passionate love she once experienced. She would like to fall into his muscular arms.. etc. After all, in many books it is said that this is what every woman needs.

Not a very pleasant feeling, huh? I'm not trying to be harsh, just show it from the other person's perspective..

[MelanieN]

I feel for you, really.I am a women and I deep down sense sincerity in what you wrote.Let us say tht I understand what you are saying.Please tell me, have you taken your advice and treated her in that way, telling her what you feel deep inside.I have friends whose wives have driven them to affairs and really think that it is sad cos I believe that intimacy in any form is a very important part of marriage.I have been married for almost a month but lived together for 8years.I am christian, he is hindu, we have lots of complications but thank God that it never was bedroom issues, I believe that if that part of a marriage is secure then everythink else falls in place cos that is the 1 place that it is ever really just about the 2 of us, no kids, no family, just us and our love for one another.

Try once again, to rekindle what you had, remember also that having kids changes a woman's body and we can not help those changes at times, offer to gym together as a way of spending time with one another but be subtle as you do not want to tell her that you do not desire her due to weight gain,etc.

It takes two, I am not saying that you have not tried, change for her and she will want to fall in love with you all over again.I had lots of issues but I made sure I give in, apologise before bed every night that way we would go to sleep holding each other instead of turning our backs to one another.

hope it helps, I will remember you in prayer, remember, God loves us unconditionally and we should try to love our partners in that way.

God bless

[Mark555]

Thanks to MelanieN. At least she tried to help. While most of you had good points, but you assumed I did nothing to help around the house. I know you won't believe this but here goes: I was the person who changed the children (not during nursing), do the laundry, clean the house, do the grocery shopping, pay the bills, etc, for the past 3 years, every since our first was born. But, have I complained about the lack of help with the house, even though I was also working? No, I did not. Because that was not the issue. I felt that if she was exhausted, I should pitch in as much as possible.

I know that a womans body goes through alot. I understand, but after 3 years of practically no romance, I got exasperated. When I wrote the original, I was at my wits end. I was tired and was just looking for advice by trying to giving some. What did you do with an honest answer, you ripped me up and made assumptions, that were not true. Why? Why not assume that I am a good guy seeking help? The advice I gave came from my situation. But most of it still stands. If the men in your life don't help, I can see where you are coming from. I was not raised to let the woman do everything, especially when she can barely make it through the day.

I still stand behind the books that I advised to read. That is if you really want to get inside a man's brain. Now, I ask you is there a book that gets directly inside a womans brain? That would give true insight to a man? I really would like to read it.

As a last point, my wife came to me and said there is something wrong, that she wants to have more energy, period. We sent her to the doctor for tests. So far, they can't find any reason that she has not returned to a somewhat normal energy level. So, I have decided that we need to go on a trip and get away from parental responsiblity. So, we will be spending a week in her favorite place, Disney World. No kids, just us. I think that might help some, but I am starting to get worried, because now she is saying something about it being worried. I hope you all pray that the doctors can find out what is wrong. Until then, be open minded and I will too.
Mark

[helenrw200]

Mark

I remember reading this post back when you posted it and have to admit that my first thoughts were that you were a typical chauvanist ! Expecting your wife to be " perfect " as she was .. in your eyes.. when you first met. Having had kids and all that goes with it, I do still think your expectations are a little unrealistic. Women's bodies change, childbirth .. and child rearing.. are hard on a woman's body, age , gravity, all these things play a part.

I didn't assume however that you did nothing to help around the house,the two things are not necessarily linked ?

From my perspective..........My partner is younger than me, not much, 5 years in fact, but that in itself gave me a crisis of self confidence, his previous partner was younger than him, making her 10 years younger than me, she'd had no kids and so being still fairly young and never having had kids her body must have still been firm, well at least that's how it seemed to me ! With my self confidence and body image at an all time low , my desire for sex also started to wane a little, it's not easy to be as free as you'd like in the bedroom when you're worrying about bits that might sag or bulge ! Now I'm not saying that my partner ever complained, he didn't, he's never made any derogative comments about my body, what he did do however was look at porn. This didn't help !

I don't think the people who replyed to your posts were actually nasty about the basis of what you posted, more the way in which you chose to express it. Reading it back it does come across as though you want your wife to look like a play boy bunny and if she doesn't then you will not want sex with her at all. If your wife has any inkling that you feel that way then she is hardly likely to feel sexy and want to have sex with you, is she ?

The one thing that seems more prevalent in a female's brain than a male's is intuition, our intuitive skills seem to be far more honed than yours which means of course we pick up far more of what goes on " under the surface " and read less in to what's actually said. What I mean by this is, women pick up more on actions than words , expression in eyes, on faces , body language etc, so if you want your wife to feel sexy then you have to show that you think she is.

I think the idea of a holiday for just the two of you is wonderful and shows how much you really care about your wife, I hope it goes some way to fixing the problems and restores her with some energy, take the opportunity to be interested in her and show her you still find her attractive. One word of caution... you said at the start of your first post that you like things that are " attractive, beautiful, ornate " This is fine when it comes to houses, cars etc, but try to remember that those things are easy to replace when they start to wear a little , but they are not things one truely loves, so you can replace new for old when ever you wish , you can't do that with a person though, we are all unique individuals..............

Have a nice time at Disney World !

Take care.

Helen

[Mark555]

I would like to thank Helen for the advice and it is well taken. I would also like to thank ysabellabrave for her comments. Her points were well taken also. I would like to address one thing: the comment, "in it lies the assumption that the body of a porn star is somehow more beautiful than that of the average wife." This is not so, The pornstar is never more beautiful. Compared to my average wife that I married, it only comes in a distant second. It's the need for being desired that is first, and foremost, in the mind. The seeing her body with flaws is the result.

I would like to say that the tone of my first letter comes across a little cold and oddly whimsical. I never said I was an effective writer. I would say that to put the feelings down more deeply would require 3 times the space. I was trying to stay within the facts, and quickly tell my feelings. Suffice it to say that I feel deeply about my wife. I love her smiling face and wonderful sense of humor. I love the way she holds our children. I love everything about her. With the exception of giving up on marital relations and herself image. That is not like her normally.

I married what I thought was the most beautiful woman in the world, inside and out. Now, I know what would make the cover of some fashon magazine. And my wife would not make it, but neither would I be able to make the cover of GQ. That's OK by me and I really don't want that. I still get quite a thrill of how she smiles and laughs. I try to make here laugh as much as possible.

You see, our everyday life is actually fairly perfect. It's that few times a month when (for some reason it follows the moon cycle) I get CRAZY with passion, and she doesn't . Then, I see her as less attractive. That's when it is the most tough.

I know in my head what is right and lovely and romantic. Actually, we cuddle alot, but, she is not interested in more. When she occasionally is, you can tell that she is kind of doing an obligation. That is a big turn off. I try to hide my turn off, but the intuition thing is probably correct.

So, where do most marriages go from here. Do you have to wait till the kids move out before you get back to fairly normal marital relations? I wish I knew.

That's my midnight thought for tonight. Any thoughts would be helpful. Please try to be constructive.
Take care,
Mark

[helenrw200]

Hi Mark

I think I'm starting to get an inkling of where you're coming from and it does seem as though your wife has a problem with libido. This may have a medical cause, it may not, but meanwhile you're starting to feel unattractive to her and so in return you're starting to find fault with her ? Is that right ?

Most people with very young families find sex difficult to fit in and some do find their libido suffers when they are tired and stressed. However it sounds as though you're doing as much as you can to take some of the strain of parenthood from your wife, and as long as you're doing this for the right reasons ( i.e not expecting sex as a reward ) then I commend you for it. If that's all it is then things might improve once the kids start to get older and less dependant, but I don't think you're prepared to wait that long are you ?

Have you tried taking the pressure off your wife in the bedroom ? I mean cuddling whilst making it clear that sex isn't on the agenda ? I'm not suggesting you rush out and buy a heap of sexy lingerie ( I'm sure you already tried this anyway ! ) but telling her she looks gorgeous and you just want to hold her , running her a bubble bath and giving her a glass of wine and a good book to read while you take care of the kids , offering to massage her neck when she's tired but not attempting to let it lead to sex.. unless she initiates it ? In other words not making her feel guilty for not wanting sex but showing you love and appreciate her whether sex is going to happen or not.

You're in danger of seeing her in a different light, as one of mother not wife and it is the lack of intimacy, not just sex that causes this, if you can establish some intimacy in the bedroom WITHOUT making her feel she is pressured she may take you by surprise.

If she has a medical condition that's causing her to feel tired then she most likely hasn't the energy to look after herself, when you have kids women often come bottom of the pile for " me " time anyway and are so busy coping with day to day family life that they start to let themselves go, alternatively and this is just a thought, if she feels that her looking attractive is going to spark off you wanting sex all the time then it may be an unconscious way of making herself less desirable, so that you don't find her attractive and therefore don't want sex, us women are complicated creatures !

Has she spoken to a professional about the way she's feeling ? I don't mean a doctor as such, but maybe a therapist or counsellor ? She may have issues she simply can't discuss with you and maybe needs to talk to someone uninvolved.

I think you're starting to feel rejected and are reacting by finding fault , understandable in a way. But keep finding fault isn't going to help matters in the long run, and it may come down in the end, if no cause can be found ,to a choice between accepting your wife as she is .... or not.

Good luck.

Helen

[Markw555]

Thanks Helen. I appreciate your thoughtful answer. I think that I may have pressured her at first, then just gave up. No body wants someone physically, who does not want them physically. I think I just need a time to look forward to. Any Idea what the kids age maybe before the parents are less taxed? That info would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark

[Liz]

Hi Mark

Just been reading your thread. I think that Helen has given you some wise advice. When my children were young I really struggled with lack of energy and libido. It does get easier as the children get older and can do more for themselves and sleep through the night. What helped me was David's patience and understanding, but I also had to be aware of his needs too. That was easier when I didn't feel pressurised. It wasn't that I wasn't attracted to him, I just didn't have the energy. We talked through how I felt at those times, when I was torn between exhaustion and longing to be in his arms and close to him. Eventually, as he tried to understand my torn feeling, he recalled times when he had the flu. He wanted to get up and get on with life but couldn't find the energy to crawl out of bed. He felt torn longing to get up but just could not do it. It really helped me to know that David understood what it was like for me at those times.

We women can curl in on ourselves very quickly, when we sense that we can't meet our husbands needs. It can become too painful a place to go, so we avoid it, not because we don't love our man, but because we can't see a way forward.

Going back to your first posting I noticed that you mnetioned Wild at Heart. I assume that you have read that, as you wanted your wife to read it. Might I suggest that you read Captivated which is the companion book for women. That may help you understand what your wife needs from you and the pain she is struggling with. It may also be a sign to her that you want to understand her, not just for her to understand you. There are journals to work through for both books, which is something that you could do together.

Liz

[helenrw200]

Hi Mark

I would say from experience that you may have to wait until the kids are secondary school age before they become independant enough not to need their parents so much. Of course this varies, but my two sons were around 11 when I felt I could relax and begin to get some " me " time back , I'm not sure how old your children are,but it does happen in stages, for instance once kids start school proper they don't require so much attention at bedtime and are more likely to sleep in their own beds ( school is wonderful for tiring them out ! ) and get up less at night. It's hard to put a definite age on things , mine are 17 and 23 now, still living at home and still are a pain sometimes when my partner and I would prefer some time alone ! They don't enter the bedroom if the door is shut, but still sometimes stand outside it and try to have a conversation with me !

I think the key to all this is to relax about it, take the pressure not just from your wife but also from yourself and maybe try some of the things I suggested.Wait til you have all the test results and if there is no physical reason for your wife feeling this way, then look to the psychological ones. Most of all, try not to take it personally... at least until you've explored all avenues . If you could get her to go for counselling that would be helpful, as I said before , she may have issues she feels she can't discuss with you, and sometimes just getting them out in the open to someone can be the start of making them disappear.


Take care.

Helen

[Fairyraine]

Hi,

I have been reading the thread links with regards to the above subject. I am totally outraged by some of the remarks from you men out there - no matter how truthful you feel like being!.

I have been a loving and caring wife and a mother of three for over 15 years now. I have given up so many things for my husband and my family. The two things I refuse to lose is my dignity and self respect. Some men are morons (could be aliens) to think we women are just there to be used and abused sexually. Porn has ruined my marriage but I refuse to allow it to destroy my self-esteem any longer.

[helenrw200]

Fairyraine

If you read some of my threads you will see I am in the same position as regards porn almost destroying my relationship with my partner.

I do think in Mark's case though he feels he is being shut out by his wife and has resorted to porn as he's feeling unwanted sexually.

I would never condone the use of porn unless BOTH parties enjoy it, but it's the deciet and secrecy that tears me apart as much as the porn. Porn sickens me ( again if you read some of my posts you'll understand why ) but being lied to hurts me far more.My partner's use of porn had almost destroyed my self esteem at a time when I was at a low ebb anyway, he would even look at it whilst I was downstairs cooking dinner ! And not just porn, but live sex sites, pay sites, I'm sure you can imagine my reaction when I found out.He went on to have a " txt " affair with some girl he met on a dating channel. He's since shown he's sorry for that, and admitted it is cheating ( he previously refused to believe it was as he never met up with her ) but the porn thing continues, he sees it as harmless fun, a quick release I guess, I see it as degrading and insulting... and never the twain shall meet.

Helen

[Fairyraine]

So pray tell me how you put up with his behaviour? Have you just accepted that this how your marriage is going to be? You are a better person than I ever will be.
I do love my husband but I now believe I am entitled to have my needs met and I fear that is why I hate porn so much. I don't feel loved nor are we able to meet eachothers needs. I have tried so much over the past years to keep my husband happy sexually however here we are still in the same situation as we were 16 years ago. I have been changing a lot lately because I have decided there is more to life and I am going back to Uni to be the best I can be and feel fully enriched. I don't find the whole returning to education thing easy but I am enjoying every minute of it. I have learned so much in such a small amount of time and I am discovering who I really am and what I want out of life to feel fulfilled. Sadly I fear I may be leaving my husband behind and this situation with the porn may be the straw that broke the camels back. Raine

[helenrw200]

Hi Raine

I guess because I know I love him, and for the moment at least life is better with him than it would be without, plus I know he's trying.

He is an addict, he displays most of the common traits of a sex addict, inability to ejaculate during penetrative sex, the need for frequent masturbation, having to hide his porn use, denial that he's using it until confronted with the evidence, and increasing need for stronger porn.

I at first I saw it as a reflection of my own inability to meet his needs, but I've slowly come to realise it has nothing to do with me, it's HIS problem. My self esteem hit rock bottom and I felt he was comparing me to the celluloid images he watched so frequently, but it isn't like that.

I've accepted that he is probably going to do it, and that I'm always going to hate it but whilst there is enough feeling for each other then yes, I put up with it, however this may not last.

If you've read some of my posts on here you'll know why I object to porn so much , but I can't be responsible for his choices, and all I can do is tell him the risks he is taking, losing me is a strong possibility, there may very well come a day when I feel that the love between us isn't strong enough for me to be able to accept his use of porn, I don't know.... and neither does he.

You have to do what feels right for you, building up your own life is an excellent way to do it, and if your husband doesn't value you enough to stop, then he is a fool.My partner manages to balance his use of porn ( on the whole ) with still making sure we have a healthy sex life, if this were to stop I would most likely feel the way you do, there is nothing worse than feeling second best to a nubile, air brushed 17 year old who's never had kids and has no droopy or saggy bits !I think it's pathetic that middle aged men drool over pics or films of young women that in real life they wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance of getting together with.I think it's sheer laziness, they don't have to worry about pleasing somebody else, it's all about self gratification and when they've finished they flick a switch and the woman disappears, no post coital talk needed, no cuddling, nothing.Pathetic.



I wish you luck Raine, whatever you decide to do.

Helen

[perfectmarriage]

Mark, be sure that your wife's doctor carefully checks her thyroid level. My wife suffered from the same problems as your wife: lack of energy, constant tiredness, gaining weight, lack of libido. The problem is that there is a lot of argument as to what constitutes a 'normal' THS level. Her doctor reckoned hers was normal. It took her about 3 years and analysis of various scientific studies to persuade the doctor that she was hypothyroid. She was eventually prescribed Thyroxine and it has made a big difference to her. Do a Google search on hypothyroidism.

[samantha21]

I totally agree with Smackie9, it isnt easy being a wife, mother and a mans personal flippin house maid. Men go out and "work hard" then come home and sleep like they have ran a 26k marathon or something. For me personally men will always be like that. Addicted to porn, going to strip clubs acting like there 18 again, when us Wives are stuck at home looking after the Rug rats you WANTED to spawn and thought would be cute at the time, until they get older go to school and then need college funds.

Mark555 personally i feel like you are the most selfish man i have ever heard from. Your the type of man that reminds me of driving around in a $50,000 car all slick and want everything to be ready for your ROYAL arrival when you get home. So what if your wife doesnt feel like having sex, why dont u try staying home looking after 2 kids, cook dinner, do the laundry...... Then bow down to you and give in to your EVERY needs, have you ever thought that you may not satisfy her anymore or maybe she just wants time to lay in the flippin bath and soak herself for an hour?!!! oh and How can she keep herself all sexy and slim....... does she have time to go to the gym???? because i dont see your selfish behind staying home and looking after the kids while she does. You married her for sickness and in health, and your materialistic imagination makes youlook like a pathetic liar to the vows you once took.

[Rex]

Mark555

Just wanted to let you know, I'm with you all the way on your message. Thanks for writing it. I understand what you are going through because our stories are very similar. I, too, struggle with porn but it is mainly because I feel that my wife does not find me attractive any more as well. I've done everything imaginable to bring sex back into our daily lives to no avail. I think before women (and men) get married they should understand that sex is a very important part of the relationship. If that stops, for any reason, the other partner is left out there vulnerable to whatever traps may come their way.

Just my two cents only.

Rex

[marvick2010@hotmail.com]

Communication is so very important. Please in the best and kindest way try to explain what you think and feel. Give her a choice to know the truth and allow her to make changes for herself before you go to the stripbar. Men see things so differently than women do. I am an older women and in good shape for my age. My husband got caught up wiyh his co-workers one night and went to a stripclub with them. It hurt me deeply, to the point that I lost my trust in him. You see he went and did not tell me. I discovered his visit a month latter on a atm statement. I was devastated and felt he lost intrest in me and him together. It made me feel not good enough for him and that he was out checking the meat market!! he is my best friend and we never kept anything secret between each other. I love him with all my heart and I felt ugly and old and couldn't imagine him hurting the intimacey of our life together. My self esteem was hurt, and I felt I couldn't compare to the young girls he looked at and I felt cheated. He took what was special between us and shared it with a room full of naked strangers. It's been thirteen months since that night and I still am broken up over it. We see a counselor now. He really was not the type to ever get caught up like that with other men. I would have went with him to one if it was just out of curiosity but he excluded me from that option. It really hurts women and hiding that visit made me wonder what else he could have done behind my back! Help your wife understand how you feel and maybe work out with her and change both your life styles of what you eat. Tell her its important that she feel good about herself and you want to get the both of you healthy to live a longer life. Get counseling together. Let her know how important she is to you and you need her help with love and understanding to get the most out of your lives mentally and phisically. Spare her the pain and hurt that I feel because I lost something for my husband over it. If your wife refuses to work on things for the both of you then You have to do what is best for you. But remember although you may only look at these women eventually you may be enticed to take the next step to physically cheat. Most strippers really do have problems doing what they do. Most are on drugs, and outside of it some prostitute. They carry deseases to. Think of the other men they do lapdances on and these guys are sweaty and you can contact things there. My husbands friend did and kissed his wife and children and they all had to get medical attention over it. The wife divorced him over it. He claimed he loved his wife and now he has lost her!!! I am talking to you out of decencey and respect because I don't want anymore people to feel what I do about it. Women are so emotional thin or fat! I'm sure your wife feels bad enough with her weight issue could you only imagine how she'd feel you looking at women in good shape. you truely would be putting yourself in temptation alley.......... you are better than that! And you both deserve the best out of life.

[mutiny08]

And as for you Mark555. You are one narrow minded dude. Yes women have had to put up with comments like yours for a long time now. Now I'm going to give you a woman's point of view on this matter. It has nothing to do with porn here.

You will never know what it's like to carry around a child in your belly for 9 months. The pain, the hormone imbalance, what it does to your body and how it can lower your self esteem because of the way you look and feel. On top of that, the expectations that it is put on us after giving birth. We are expected to raise the children, do the laundry, clean the house, do the grocery shopping, pay the bills, etc. And with all this be able to look like a fit sex goddess, be in sexy high heels, and be ready for a night of romping just for you and any given notice! Ha! Ya right.

If you want all this then you better be making some serious cash. Because in order for your wife to do all this, you will have to hire , a nanny,a maid, a cook, an accountant, a personal shopper, a personal fitness trainer, and get her a life time membership at a spa. Now how do you like them apples!:p

My gosh you are really tooting your own horn here. Are you saying that to perform well in the bedroom, you have to have all day to prepare?

A woman is expected to do those things BECAUSE A MAN IS OFF WORKING TOO. yeah sure, you have to clean, and do dishes and laundry and everything else, on top of waking up in the middle of the night to feed a baby. but think about this... you're not the only one who wakes up. a crying baby wakes up the poor husband who has to get up at 6am and is expected to look presentable, alert and fit to be at work in an hour. you can go back to sleep. AND, when he gets home from a day of stress and tiredness, he will most likely have to hear crap about how hard your day was.

what is it with society these days that makes stay-at-home mothers out to be superheros? listen ladies, it isn't that flippin hard to clean the house. Quit saying that you're duties are worth the same amount in $$ as if you had to hire someone to do them. Its not the same.

I am in no way saying its easy, but give the men a break. like i said, you aren't the only ones with the problems. the only difference is, your man might expect some lovin' when he gets home. in a way, you could compare it to the way his boss expects a professional, hard working, awake, alert, on-the-ball employee for roughly 8 hours. be thankful that you dont have to do it for 8 hours and the likelihood of you being sacked from not meeting these expectations occasionally is a lot less than his.

[mutiny08]

bella, you are the biggest idiot i have ever met (and ive met plenty). you say im a woman hater and the like... but look at yourself. far out. You have more hate for men than you do for porno.

My comment was never directed to single mothers, working mothers or (God bless them) single working mothers. It was relating to stay-at-home mothers whose work is keeping up a household while the man provides the $$. I dont know where u get off telling me that i have no respect for any of these classes of women. My mother was single and working, and i know damn well how hard it was for her. She has my upmost respect. I also know that it is not the easiest of jobs being a stay-at-home parent either. They are not without my respect.

I don't know how anyone can come to the conclusion that a stay-at-home parent is working the equivalent of 2 and a half full time jobs. I would like to see your reference to this "study". I also question what you call an "informed scientist" :\

Pull your finger out and get a grip of reality. You sound like a femanist after "equality" who is just tipping the scales.

Good day.

[somedude]

I'd like to see a link to this research myself, mutiny.

[Raymond]

I don't know why you have it in for Bella. She has always spoke reasonable sense on here as far as I can see.

Raymond

[mutiny08]

I dont have it in for HER as a person, i just completely disagree with her opinion and the way she goes about expressing it. I try to accumulate answers in a civil, adult discussion or "debate" so i can, in the end, come to a conclusion myself. I dont think being attacked or having someone try and defame my character is an adult way to go about it. I do give her credit on one thing... she is persistent and she does believe in what she is saying.

[Raymond]

Fair enough. We shouldn't tear the person down, but we can disagree with a view or an action.

Raymond