Can't get past the continual rows

[poacherspromise]

We both have kids from previous marriages who have always lived with us, and have been together for thirteen years, married for nine. The first years were spent struggling on meagre incomes, the ex-wife from hell and the continuous need to work our lives around her contact times. I put my whole self into those years supporting my husband through very difficult times. We are from very different backgrounds and we don't seem to have the same values at all, which have become more and more evident as the years go by. He is from quite a rough neighbourhood and poor family where his sisters virtually brought him up and he spent a lot of time playing hooky so he has little formal education, and without anyone taking much interest in his upbringing. I was brought up as lower middle class although my mother had to bring me up alone and had very little money, then she died when I was 18.

I think we got together through loneliness more than anything although we did love each other and I think we still do in some way, but now we just don't seem to like each other very much. The kids were very small when we got together and his were often very, very difficult. I seemed to spend most of my time, especially meal times trying to teach them manners, which in the end caused rows between us. This got worse as time elapsed and after several years he then began to overturn arrangements I had made to do things with the kids in favour of their mother's changing contact demands at short notice, he just didn't seem to realize that he was always putting that first, I had never complained about having to work around her but this was a direct snub and I felt really shocked and hurt, he just couldn't see why it was a problem. Later, because my husband doesn't think you need to monitor older kids behaviour and that you should trust people until you have reason not to that caused conflict. I began to feel that I was just not valued because I was never informed of their whereabouts or if they were going to be in for dinner, if I complained I was told it shouldn't be a problem and that all I ever do is moan which is why they don't want to be at home. They are now 18 and 19 and in the end I just gave up and didn't bother to interact much with them after having some pretty awful abuse from them on a number of ocassions which my husband feels I deserve. He doesn't seem to care that I would like to have some order in my life and to be included in what goes on in my own house, he says I am the one with a problem and that it is entirely my fault.

There are other problems that mean that we seldom go more than a week without a row, he makes me really angry because he just doesn't seem to care about anything much and leaves me to make sure we are solvent and that nothing is forgotten, he shows no interest in the running of the home, and when he has a casual attitude to kids coming in an hour before dinner which is being cooked and making toast because they haven't bothered to take lunch, or wait to fill the washing basket with a weeks washing just after I have done the washing, I feel it is such an insult that I go to the bother of preparing a meal and include everyone and no-one cares. I have given up bothering much now and get criticised for that instead.

I try to talk to him about issues but he immediately gets his back up, becomes angry and accuses me of the same things every time and we end up screaming. I am so frustrated with everything and I just don't know who I am or if I really am the one to blame. We have now started to really insult each other, and tonight I chucked a potato at him which made him very abusive so I slapped his face which made him throw me on the floor. It has just destroyed us and if I had anywhere to go I would have left a long time ago, but then I think, why should I give up my home? I just can't get through to him that I moan because I am unhappy and don't feel anyone cares about my needs, or point of view. He says I should lighten up and be friendly to the kids, I try but they have no interest in me and I find it difficult to put on an act so mostly I am civil but keep quiet. I feel it should come from both sides but as he says it is all me they are never going to feel a need to meet me halfway.

I am now 55 and unable to get a full time job to support myself, but in truth I don't feel I can start all over again. I have tried counselling but have not found that they want to talk about my problems, just about my childhood as though it is that that is causing the grief, so I feel they are blaming me from the start, he won't hear of going.

There is more but it would take weeks to go through it. All he wants is to stick his head in the sand, saying he is an 'optimist', and I think we are both so sick of fighting and each other that we feel we have to give in to the inevitable break up. The kids feel we should have split years ago, but if I could save my marriage I would, but how can I do that when he doesn't think he has a problem? I know it is partly me but it is too big a burdon to cope with to carry the whole blame because I can go nowhere knowing that, and often feel we would all be happier if I just let go of life entirely anyway as obviously they would not have a problem if I were not here, they are happy with it all except with me. I feel so trapped, impotent and desperately sad.

[Helen]

When I read your post, I shook my head with disbelief. Your husband is incredibly selfish and unsupportive and, I am sorry to say it, he has raised two very selfish and insolent teens. If they were my kids, I would tell them that since they are old enough to be so rude and inconsiderate, they are old enough to take care of themselves. Then I would literally down tools. No food would be cooked for them. That is not to say no food would be in the house but I would leave them to get on with cooking it. If they have no clothes to wear, that is not your problem either and I would tell them so when they raise a stink. They are both adults and are old enough to take care of themselves, technically. Certainly, if an issue is made of this, I would point out that they are so rude, inconsiderate and insolent to you, why on earth would you WANT to do anything for them? Why should you? They are adults and should get on with it. I would also make noises about them finding places of their own. Ideally, yes we would all want our kids to live with us for as long as they want to but you are under siege at the moment. Having them there is making everything so much worse for you.

As to their father, he may well sit there and say you deserve this insolence but by siding with them, he is reinforcing what they feel is their right to be rude to you. Yes, as kids get older they do not require as much supervision but they do require boundaries - something which you seem to recognise but your husband doesn't. Their lack of respect for you shows in their behaviour. Eating when dinner will be ready within the hour. Waiting until you have done all the washing to fill up the wash basket. Heaping abuse on you when you ask them to adhere to a few basic ground rules. My son did the thing with the washing too. I felt as though I was constantly washing clothes. My solution was to show him how to use the washing machine and make it clear that I am not his slave. I have a job and I am sick too (with Graves Disease). Frankly, I do not have the strength to run behind him cleaning up his crap and besides, he isn't six any more, he is almost 20. I make my point of view on this very clear to him - and he took it on board.

If your husband has a problem with you taking this approach, I would point out that it is you, not him, who is having to play skivvy to the children. Thankfully, although I could say a lot of negative things about my ex, he never ever sided with my son over me. He was also pretty strict with our son growing up and helped out around the house. You and your husband do not sound especially well-matched and it doesn't sound to me as though you have much in common either. I know you say you feel too old to start again but it would seem to me that the alternative is you continue to put up with this selfish behaviour for the rest of your life. My question to you is can you do this - honestly? Your arguments with your husband and the kids seem to be caused because of your frustration. You snap periodically (unsurprisingly) and, instead of understanding the reasons behind this, your husband joins the kids in undermining you. I personally think you deserve better than this. It is never too late to start again, particularly if your life is hellish (as it must be at the moment). What might help you to put things in perspective is fast forwarding your life to 20 years from now. It is conceiviable, after all, that you could live for at least another 20 if not 30 years. Can you stand the thought of being with this man for another 20 years? The cracks are already there and you have only been together for 13...

I think what you need to do is research what help and support is out there for you, should you decide to make this difficult move. If your jointly own your home with your husband and you decide you absolutely have to leave, I would tell him that you expect your share of the capital from the home. After all, if you were not there I doubt there would be a home to argue over. I would also take heart from my ex mother-in-law's story. She divorced her husband earlier this year, at the age of 60 and is now having to face life without a man - for the first time since she was 15. Yes, it isn't easy but she is out there, doing it. She told me she regrets not doing what I did when she was my age (I am 40 and divorced my ex earlier this year when I found out he was having an affair with my ex sister-in-law, who was married to my brother at the time). My ex father-in-law cheated on my mother-in-law constantly and she put up with it for more than 40 years. And it wore her down and eroded her vitality and confidence. She bears little resemblence to the woman I met more than 20 years ago.

I talk about my ex's infidelity being the reason for our divorce but I suspect we would have parted eventually anyway. Like you and your husband, we were not particularly well-matched. Our upbringings were different. My family was working class but hard working, with both parents working two jobs each, in shifts, to provide for us; but my dad drank and we were beaten a lot and were not particularly close as a consequence. My ex's family were also working class but the main difference was they were very close knit - even the extended family. In addition, my parents had a completely different view of fidelity to my ex's. My mother was taught to endure and stay, despite everything. They were married until my father died 7 years ago. My ex learned from his dad that it was okay to cheat. Hardly surprising, then, that both he and his brother are now divorced due to cheating on their wives. The main differences between me and my ex were that we had different fundamental values but I didn't realise this until we had been married for a number of years. He had little or no ambition whereas I was and am a career woman. He underperformed at school, despite being bright. I have various qualifications, many of which I did during the course of our marriage. He had little self-esteem (although he hid it well when we got together) and his 'friends' used to walk all over him, whereas I was raised to be strong and assertive. He was clingy whereas I was raised to be independent. Then there were the differences in income. I earned more than twice what he earned, despite the fact that he was my boss when we met. He could not reconcile himself to the fact that I loved my job and wanted a career. He always said he wishes I had never left the job where we met, despite the fact that he knew I was too bright to do it and wasn't particularly happy there. I could go on and on.

Anyway, I have waffled on enough. I hope you do manage to find a way through this. I know that you would want to save your marriage but you should ask yourself what it is you are trying to save. From where I am sitting, your husband and the children are holding all the cards and are using you as a doormat. I would not put up with it and I don't think you should either. But this is just my opinion.

Take care,


Helen