So it looks over

[needhelp0401]

To say I dont know where to start is an understatement. Wife and I were together for 12 years, married 10; 2 children 9 and 5. We have always had poor communication skills, and I had the bad habit of avoiding conflicts. I always assumed that if we did not fight there would never be a reason for us to split up. Guess I was wrong.

So my wife had been acting different for about a month, and I finally confronted her about it. To sum it up, she told me she has been unhappy for a while and she had been for a long time. She had been putting up a happy face the whole time for the sake of the kids. She wanted to move out and end the marriage, and I asked if we could try counsoling first. She said it was too late for that, basically I took that as she no longer has feelings for me. Have I said I am totally devasteted yet?

We agreed since it is close to the holidays and we are financially strapped we would wait until after Christmas to split up. We discussed some of the details, not a lot.

Past couple days, I have been trying to be upbeat as I have a twisted idea that maybe I can win her love back. Well last night she was going out "again" with some girlfriends, and I asked her if she was not coming home till real late to call me. Occassionally she would drink WAY too much and crash at one of the friends houses. She agreed, but she never called and strolled in at 8 in the mornin. She did not seem to understand why I was upset. I guess she figures we are over, so I have no rights.

I am torn, as I see I have 7 weeks of having her still and that gives me a little hope I can rescue the marriage. Then I think, if she doesnt want to try and save it and no longer loves me, then what is the point. I want to be able to tell my children that I tried to save it, but 7 weeks in pain is almost unthinkable. I relize that I am gonna be in a lot of pain for a long time, but I also relize the sooner it is over the sooner I can try and rebuild my life.

Please help, I have barely slept or eaten in days..

[Helen]

I think you were absolutely right to ask your wife to consider counselling. I hope she takes you up on it, if only for the sake of the kids. But I would also ask her - why does she think it is too late? It is never too late to try to save a union, especially when there are children involved. I think it is very unfair to be with someone, be unhappy and not tell your partner you are unhappy. If your wife was unhappy, it really was up to her to tell you. She didn't. And now she wants out.

Has your wife told you why she feels so unhappy? I ask because she has been acting differently for about a month. Presumably this change in behaviour came out of the blue. Last night she went out 'again', she said with girlfriends. She stayed out all night and didn't call. I am sorry to add to your feelings of pain but my question to you is this: do you think there is someone else in her life? I ask because when someone starts behaving differently and going out more, this is often a sign that they may be involved with someone else. Have you asked her? If not, I think you should. If she is seeing someone else, it would explain why she isn't interested in trying to work on your marriage. It would also explain the sudden change in her behaviour and her sudden feelings of unhappiness.

I wish I could tell you everything will be okay or you can save the marriage. Only you can make a realistic assessment about this. I do understand your feelings of devastation. This has clearly been a bolt from the blue. I agree, the next 7 weeks are going to be incredibly difficult. There is another member here, Ginger God, who went through a similar waiting period with his wife earlier this year. Hopefully he will see your post and will be able to tell you how he coped during this difficult period.

Do take care of yourself and I am sorry that you are going through such a dreadful time.


Helen

[Annie2]

Hello,

I am so sorry you are in such awful torment and pain. This really must feel overwhelming for you.

If I am confused as to why your wife is rather suddenly springing this on you so must you be. She doesn't seem to have offered any real explanation. You have been together for a long time yet she has not apparent reason other than you guessing she has no feelings for you. Does that not strike you as a bit 'unreal'?

You have already and very quickly identified what you feel are your bad habits - avoiding conflict and lack of communication. Yet you are the one who really isn't questioning his feelings. It is your wife who has done that. Why? Feelings do change. The longer you are together the more changes, but it doesn't have to mean all negative. That is marriage or a long term relationship for you! There will always be negatives, there will always be a change about a person throughout their life (whether their partner is with them or not). Yet, it is the closeness and taken for granted state of mind that makes us say 'it's them, not me, it's about them'. Therefore your wife's feelings have changed therefore it is about you and not her!! How absurd is that?

I really do feel for you right now because she is clearly in a very 'hell bent' state of mind. You have shown willingness to help, willingness to solve marriage issues and seek counselling but she is so focussed on her own needs she is not prepared to listen. A bit childish!

You really need to start thinking of you, right now she is only thinking of her. It doesn't sound as though she is even thinking of the the enormous upheaval on the children, if this is a quick and shockng decision. You must stop seeing your wife as the driver in all of this mess. She is the one in a confused state, or different state to you know her. Therefore you can not look to her for comfort or support. She is not thinking of you while she is so tuned in to her own needs. I would talk to close friends for support or seek counselling yourself. The eating part is difficult. The more you don't eat the more low you are going to feel. Keeping your sugar levels up helps you to think clearer and to function. Try snacking little and often. It really is very important to your state of mind never mind anything else. Sleeping too I can appreciate must be hard when your head is doing overtime. But even just lying down and letting your body relax will help. Even if your eyes don't close your body is resting.

Who is babysitting while your wife is out? In her new planned world of 'herself' has she any idea who will be babysitter at short notice? I really think if she feels she has every right, then so do YOU. You don't have to be controlled like that. If she wants to spend the night out until the very late hours of the morning then she needs to think of her children, in her plans you are not going to be there. What is she doing until 8am? You have the right to know, she has left your children in your care. She is still your wife and she owes it to you to be honest.

I really see that you still want to save your marriage. There are no magic answers. A marriage is about two seperate individuals and only one in yours seems to want to work at it. You need to home in on looking after you right now. You say you see it as seven weeks. It's much longer than that. Divorce is a long process, and it is only a process not a termination. Just be true to yourself, she is the one behaving, if i don't sound rude, like a child. After so long you deserve far more respect, loyalty and explanation than I feel she has given.

Hang in there, I really hope you get some answers soon. Look after yourself, you come first before anything else (looking after yourself puts your children first too). Keep posting,

Best wishes,
Annie
Ps. sorry it's been more opinion than advice

[needhelp0401]

Hello,

I am so sorry you are in such awful torment and pain. This really must feel overwhelming for you.

If I am confused as to why your wife is rather suddenly springing this on you so must you be. She doesn't seem to have offered any real explanation. You have been together for a long time yet she has not apparent reason other than you guessing she has no feelings for you. Does that not strike you as a bit 'unreal'?


She feels like she is in a rut with me, and when she is with her friends or out doing something she is much happier. I have been the one that stays home with the kids usually, we use to be able to do more becuase we could drop the kids off at her moms, but she started to work more and it made it much tougher.

You have already and very quickly identified what you feel are your bad habits - avoiding conflict and lack of communication. Yet you are the one who really isn't questioning his feelings. It is your wife who has done that. Why? Feelings do change. The longer you are together the more changes, but it doesn't have to mean all negative. That is marriage or a long term relationship for you! There will always be negatives, there will always be a change about a person throughout their life (whether their partner is with them or not). Yet, it is the closeness and taken for granted state of mind that makes us say 'it's them, not me, it's about them'. Therefore your wife's feelings have changed therefore it is about you and not her!! How absurd is that?

I really do feel for you right now because she is clearly in a very 'hell bent' state of mind. You have shown willingness to help, willingness to solve marriage issues and seek counselling but she is so focussed on her own needs she is not prepared to listen. A bit childish!

Yes I kind of feel this way too, she almost seems to be holding it against me that our marriage failed and all of a sudden no longer cares hw I feel. Bit maybe this is because she is confused?

You really need to start thinking of you, right now she is only thinking of her. It doesn't sound as though she is even thinking of the the enormous upheaval on the children, if this is a quick and shockng decision. You must stop seeing your wife as the driver in all of this mess. She is the one in a confused state, or different state to you know her. Therefore you can not look to her for comfort or support. She is not thinking of you while she is so tuned in to her own needs. I would talk to close friends for support or seek counselling yourself. The eating part is difficult. The more you don't eat the more low you are going to feel. Keeping your sugar levels up helps you to think clearer and to function. Try snacking little and often. It really is very important to your state of mind never mind anything else. Sleeping too I can appreciate must be hard when your head is doing overtime. But even just lying down and letting your body relax will help. Even if your eyes don't close your body is resting.

This is the tough part. I moved away from my family and friends when we got married. Now most of them are couple friends who are much closer to her. I talked to my sister for a while, who had to deal with an affair in her marriage, and that helped me a little. I am trying very hard to eat, but it is tough. Not even really mentally, I am hungry but physically I feel even more sick when I eat. Sounds silly, but it is the way it feels atm. I try to relax, but when I do I think and I get depressed. My main problem is I keep looking back and seeing all these points in our marriage where I could have helped keep it strong. It is very hard not look back.

Who is babysitting while your wife is out? In her new planned world of 'herself' has she any idea who will be babysitter at short notice? I really think if she feels she has every right, then so do YOU. You don't have to be controlled like that. If she wants to spend the night out until the very late hours of the morning then she needs to think of her children, in her plans you are not going to be there. What is she doing until 8am? You have the right to know, she has left your children in your care. She is still your wife and she owes it to you to be honest.

I trumped her plans for tonight and she is staying home and I am gonna go watch Sunday night football with a friend. Feels kind of good.

I really see that you still want to save your marriage. There are no magic answers. A marriage is about two seperate individuals and only one in yours seems to want to work at it. You need to home in on looking after you right now. You say you see it as seven weeks. It's much longer than that. Divorce is a long process, and it is only a process not a termination. Just be true to yourself, she is the one behaving, if i don't sound rude, like a child. After so long you deserve far more respect, loyalty and explanation than I feel she has given.

Hang in there, I really hope you get some answers soon. Look after yourself, you come first before anything else (looking after yourself puts your children first too). Keep posting,

Best wishes,
Annie
Ps. sorry it's been more opinion than advice

I told her yesterday that I was gonna fight and try and save out marriage. I told her I dont know exactly what you are feeling or thinking, but I still have love for you and I still believe there is something good between us. I asked for no response from her, I just wanted her to know where I stood, she will have to decide on her own what she wants.

[needhelp0401]

Things seem to be getting worse now. I have seen her /chatting on the computer, and when I come around her she closes IE. She is also become even colder towards me now as well, I try and give her a simple hug and she does so very reluctantly. I am becoming more and more disillusioned and depressed, and I feel the two questions I wanted to avoid need to be asked.

I wanted to avoid asking them, because it may very well end all hope for us. I need to ask her if there is someone else, maybe not someone she has been with as I dont think she has cheated on me, but another guy she wants to pursue. And I need to ask her if she still loves me. The first question I am very unsure what kind of answer I will get, but I fear I know the answer to the second question. I have also decided that if she is actively pursing someone else, or even looking, then I am gonna force her out of the house a lot sooner. To me this is as low and as disrespectful thing that could be done (outside of actual cheating).

Thank you all very much, just having an outlet to talk and to get some sympathy has helped a lot. I very much await more replies..

[Helen]

I am sorry to hear that your wife is behaving so coldly towards you. Coupled with what you said in your first post about her behaviour and now, the behaviour with IE (Messenger, presumably?). this is classic 'affair' behaviour. She may not have been physically unfaithful yet but I have a suspicion she is interacting inappropriately with another person. You are right, this is unforgiveable. When my ex had his affair, although the thought that he had slept with someone else made me feel physically ill, it was the thought that he had spoken to the other woman about me and our marriage (things that should have been private) that hurt me the most. These were the things that enraged me. And they were, ultimately, the things that I could not get past. We are now divorced - I divorced him for adultery - and he still doesn't seem to understand why this aspect of what he did was so bad. The thing that I minded was the fact that I was begging this man to go to marriage counselling at least once a week. Meanwhile, he was spilling his guts to this trollop. He then came home and behaved very coldly towards me - much as your wife is doing to you. I can see he was doing it because she was hissing her brand of poison in his ears...

It sounds to me as though she has shared the latest exchange between you with this person and they have given her advice that has hardened her heart. I know when my ex was talking to my ex sister in law (the woman he had the affair with - she was with my brother at the time - instead of telling him to come home, think about counselling and focus on our relationship, she just kept telling him that what I did was 'dreadful' and if she were married to him, she wouldn't treat him like that. Of course, she managed to sway his affections and effort away from me and he cannot see it. He still thinks it is all my fault, despite evidence to the contrary.

I can identify with your feelings of sickness but I suspect you feel this way because of all the uncertainty. You need to know for the sake of your sanity, exactly what is going on. Unpleasant though discovery will be, at least you will know where you stand. Only then can you begin to deal with it. If I were you, before speaking to her again, wait until your wife is out and then go on the computer and see if you can sneak a look at her past conversation history on IE/Messenger. If it is set up to keep a record of past conversations, you should be able to find them in the documents section, under 'My Received Files'. The conversations will be stored under her IE/Messenger username. If you do manage to find details of her past conversations, my advice is to print them out and put them somewhere safe, where she will not be able to find them. Depending on what they say, they may serve as useful evidence if you decide that you cannot live with what she has done to you.

If there are no such records on the computer, then I would suggest you speak to her but be prepared for her to lie to you and then become angry as you get closer to the truth. I again understand what you mean about not wanting to confront her and the implications for your marriage. I have been there. But the implications for your health and sanity are that much more important and, for this reason, you do need to have it out with her properly. I have posted recently about the impact on my health of not confronting my ex about his affair. Although finding out was the end of us and the beginning of a pretty hellish period for me, 16 months on, I have no regrets about doing this. No regrets about throwing his cheating, lying behind out. And no regrets about divorcing him, either.

I do hope things are not to traumatic for you, when you either find the evidence on the computer or you confront her. Take good care of yourself and try to sleep and eat, no matter how hard it is. If you don't this will make everything feel so much harder...


Helen

[needhelp0401]

I have been spending a lot of time with friends and my sister, just talked and it seems to have been helping. I just cant seem to get her to really open up to me, and I want her to open up to me, not her "single" friends. As the advice she gets from them, may not be in our/her best interest. I am gonna ask her tonight if she wants to spend some time with me this weekend, not really a date or a situation that will cause pressue, but to go with some friends to watch some football as the kids will be at my parents.

I have a lot I want to say to her and feelings I want to share, but I am afraid of overwhelming her even more and her building that wall even higher. I know she is confused, and I want to help her but she wont let me in and it is driving me NUTS!

[needhelp0401]

So just to update the few people following me and my problems.

Last couple nights we have gotten a lot out in the open. I will try and sum it up, as it has become more confusing than ever for me.

So Tuesday I asked her if there was someone else, anyone even if it was just someone she was interested in dating. She insisted no there was no one. I poured out my heart and told her how I felt and got a lot of hurt out and that helped. She did tell me that she does not love me like she thinks she should. It also became very clear that she was missing her freedom and just wanted me gone.

So then comes Wednesday and things change for the worse or better I dont know. I was cleaning out her computer because is was going very slow and looked to be on the verge of crashing. We lost a ton of pictures the last time it crashed and I did not want to see it happen again. I was cleaning out cookies and temp files and found a dumped email. My heart broke. She had sent an email to a friend upset about our poor communication, but there was more...
Basically...
"We had it out pretty good last night and I think he knows how it is. I did not tell him about my feelings towards Brett, because he does not need to be involved and the problem is between me and him"

I decided to confront her about it. I just told her that I saw the name on her computer, as I dont want her to think I am spying on her. (I have resisted that urge so far). She said he is an old friend and that they had been talking, mainly about me and her as he had his wife leave him about 1.5 years ago for the same reasons. Ironic aint it. For the first time in our marriage I fought back, I told her we have always had trust and if we dont have that she should move out much sooner. I told her I was hurt and angry. I guess my anger and hurtdid not go unnoticed, for the first time since this all happened, she grabbed and held me and kissed me on the head. I think she finally understood the pain I was in and it bothered her. This made it a little easier, and she kept insisting nothing with with her and "Brett", so I have to accept that, despite now when she is out with out me, I will always keep wondering if she is with him.

So not that complicated yet? Well there is more.... She was supposed to meet her boss that evening for a few, but her boss cancelled and she went to a bar were a good friend tends at. She left about 9pm. Well normally she doesnt come home until 12:00-12:30 at night. Well to my surprise, she came home at 11, I had just finished brushing my teeth, and she seemed very subdued. I asked her if she was gonna sleep on the couch, and she said she would like to sleep in the bed if it was ok. Sure why not...

We get into bed, and she says nothing and looks very down, so I asked her if she was ok.(She had been sick earlier in the week). She said, that she should be asking that of me. I was honest and said I could be better that is for sure. A minute of silence passed, and I said "ya know I just want to reach over and kiss you so bad" Silence.... So I decided to kiss her on the forehead, just so she knows I love her. When I reached over she lifted her head up to meet me. (Sounds like a romance novel). And well the rest is what you think. The passion and love was there, I felt it and I hope she did too.

She called me today at work, for something small. Something she use to do, but stopped a few months back. I am not taking this as things are ok or that they will work out. But it gives me hope, because if I do lose her I will do so fighting and I will lay everybit of love and emotions on the table.

I also relized a bunch more stuff about our marriage, which I will post later..

[Helen]

Well, it certainly is confusing but on the whole, I think things are a lot more positive than they were a few days ago. But I agree, it is unwise to count chickens before they are hatched, etc., etc... I honestly don't know if your wife understands that the minute a woman confides in a member of the opposite sex about her husband and her marriage (especially about marital/relationship issues), that is a sure-fire way to create even bigger problems in the relationship. The problem is, when a woman does this, she starts subconsciously comparing her mate to this other guy she is confiding in. She will see faults where none exist. Not because this other guy is particularly wonderful (I am betting she hardly knows him) but because he is there and he listens and perhaps she feels he does this better than her mate does. I could go on and on about other behaviours here but I won't.

I would tell your wife that if she is confiding in Brett then he is an unwelcome third person in your marriage. Things can never be just about you and her - not while she is betraying confidences with a third party of the opposite sex. At the end of the day, she should not be confiding in another man about you. It is one of the worst things she can do. If she needs someone to confide in, she should confide in a girlfriend.

The other thing I am picking up is your wife seems to think there are communication barriers between you. One has to ask - what sort of communicator is she? Because from your initial post, it seems that her unhappiness came out of the blue and was previously uncommunicated. Is this right? If that is the case, why is she blaming you in isolation? Does she not think she has some of her own? Or maybe she knows she does but she expects you to somehow put everything right on your own? Just curious.

I am glad things have moved forward, if only a bit. It does sound to me as though your wife might be realising a few things (i.e. maybe she is not as unhappy as she thought. Maybe it was her interaction with this Brett that made her feel she must be). Who knows? I guess the questions now have to be how do you a) maintain the bit of progress you have made and b) continue to push in the right direction to get your marriage back on track?

I will give this some thought - I am in the office and need to finish a piece of work before heading out for the night. Hopefully you will get other suggestions in the meantime.


Take care,


Helen

[needhelp0401]

Well, after our converstations and me doing a lot of soul searching I relized a lot of things. I am the one that forced her to build that wall and to look for her friends and others for companionship. There were many nights I was downstairs playing computer games while she was upstairs alone. I thought I was a good husband because I took care of the kids, did laundry, cooked, etc... But I missed the most important thing, and sadly only now have I relized what I have done and lost. I think that she has appreciated the fact that I am showing so much affection towards her and showing how bad I want her. I think she also appreciated that I was jealous of this Brett guy, I tried not to show how much the thought of him made me enraged..

My problem is I am not around her anymore when she goes out, and everytime she is gone I am thinking of Brett and I get so angry I can barely think. And what do I make of last night? I dont want to push too hard, but when I am around her my heart is filled with such desire. And the fact that it was my lack of action that drove her away is killing me. I have grown up so much since she started to build the wall around her. Now that it is all in the open and walls are coming down, I just need another chance.

I may not be able to remove the pressure of being a mom or her job. But I can remove the pressure of wondering about our marriage. I just want to find this Brett guy and just go off on him, and I feel I have no power to stop her from talking to him. I don't know if live in the same house with her is she is out flirting, GOD this is killing me. She says she is not and I have no reason to doubt her, but I am HUMAN. Even if she says she wont talk to him anymore, that would make me feel SO much better. Even if she just said it to make me happy.

We were supposed to go together and watch the OSU vs UM game tomorrow, but now I can't go with her and it sucks. I had SO much fun with her and her friends last year.

[needhelp0401]

I am gonna keep posting even if know one reads, because it feels good.

Yesterday evening we spent it doing wrestling sign ups for the local club(I coach). I kept finding things for her to help me with, cause man I was getting overwhelmed. She gladly accepted all the work I asked of her, and even though we were both tired it was nice spending that time with her.

She was laying bed watching Grey's Anatomy and I almost reached up and kissed her again. But to be honest I was SO physically and emotionally drained that I did not have the energy. I use to be able to plan everything, probably hurt our passion a little. But now I am so confused and full of emotions that I am totally lost and in uncharted waters. Each day it becomes harder and harder for me not to reach out and grab her and kiss her and love her and never let go.

Because of this I have to tell her what how I felt Wednesday night. I dont want her to respond, I think she felt good and enjoyed the passion that we had as it had been a while. But I dont know and if she told me that it ment nothing, that would kill me. My feelings did not change that night, as I have always loved and always will.

[tethersend]

I think you and I should keep track of the others developements - looks like a race to see who gets finished first :eek: (You'll know my stuff from the other thread and it may help to see someone going through similar nightmares.)

There is something I would be worried about in your tale and that is Brett.

I had a previous relationship that had my partner 'sleeping around ( multi affairs) ' and some of the signs are recognisable not that mutli comes to mind with your scenario.

The perpetrators of affairs will in nearly all cases NOT admit to it under ANY circumstances. I never did fathom out why even living with someone who was a serial adulterer. It's just so much easier to come clean after a certain point is'nt it ?!? But they never seem capable of it

"We had it out pretty good last night and I think he knows how it is. I did not tell him about my feelings towards Brett, because he does not need to be involved and the problem is between me and him"

How come she could not tell you about him? Why not - If it was nothing it would be easier for you to take would'nt it?

He's dangerous imo and I'll be interested to see how he developes in your stuff

From one low person to another try to hang in there. Try not to be angry - which I am struggling with because it just creeps in and nestles there I have found.

[needhelp0401]

Just another update.

Well I finally had enough I was utterly confused with her actions, so I broke some trust and hacked her email account. Well to my utter disappointment she had been seeing someone for a couple months. I was enraged to say the least, she had flat out lied to my face betrayed a trust that in 12 years had never been questioned. I also found out that she had stopped seeing him, and I called her at work and asked her about it. Not telling that I hacked her email. We decided to talk later tonight after she got home.

Well she called me 10 minutes later on her cell and started yelling at me for looking at her email. I went ballistic, "How can you even think about getting on me about looking at your email after what you did"

When she got home we talked a long time. And for the first time since all this started she broke down and cried hard for 10 minutes, kissing me telling me how sorry she was and how much she loved me. First time I had ever seen her break down like that. In a way I liked it, as for the first time in weeks I felt like she was being honest with me.

She says they never slept together, but she understodd that I was not ready to believe much of what she said. I told her that I understand that I had not payed much attention to her for a long time and I ALMOST understood her looking for companionship. But in NO way does it excuss the actions. And I told her I was more devestated that she broke our trust.

I told her that I wanted to still try and save the marriage with several things that need to take place. She has to understand, trust has broken and it will take time to rebuild. She broke my heart and acted very selfish, and right now I don't forgive her but in time I can learn to. And if anything like this happens again, she will be an every other weekend mother.

It was tough deciding whether to try again or to cut my losses. But I really felt she was sorry and that she still does love me. And the pain of not having her is far worse than the pain I feel now Marriages have bumps in the road, some are worse than others. But those that can make it through are generally stronger for it. This was the only incident in 12 years together like this, so I feel it is not who she is.